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Thanks FY, your opinion means a lot to me.

I agree. That is why I didn't jump into LRT. Plus I have learned enough about it to apply it properly which earlier on I may not have managed. It is a card that I can play if she moves further away from me.

I could be wrong but I have the impression that my W does not want us to get further apart. Anytime I voice a complaint or issue, she almost always comes to find me smile shortly afterwards and shares a funny story about the boys or some other ice breaker.

That being said she isn't moving towards me either. But maybe I will have a surprise wink tomorrow for Valentine's day . cool

There were times in the past two years where we were worse. There were definitely times I was worse. Am I better at supporting the situation?
Yes, but maybe it is more supportable too.

There were times she avoided kissing me hello/goodbye. She would kiss my son goodbye at the breakfast table beside me and walk around the table and if lucky mumble goodbye to me. Now she comes to me to say hello/goodbye with a kiss.

On the couch after a certain time she used to move her legs. Before she tended to move them away from me, now they lean against my chest.

For months she never wore a ring on her wedding finger but recently wears one a few days a week. No apparent pattern to when she will or won't.

I'm listing this stuff to acknowledge that things could be and have been worse. Could be better too but that is another topic.

My approach is to slowly improve the connection between us. Opportunities are intermittent and I may not take advantage fully of every opportunity but I avoid making things worse. I see those opportunities too and am getting better at not falling for them.

It has been a year since any R talk and that one was a year after the previous one. If it is an annual thing, we are due one this month!! Two years ago after a heavy period of me in overdrive to save M, I pushed for her to open up regardless of whether I would like what she had to say or not. She didn't open up. Last year we talked about our R as if it was an independent entity ( the R was doing this and that on its own!!). I listened validated and finally got an admittance that she had checked out (again she mentioned this as if it was someone else and not her).

Since then a lot of water has flowed under the bridge. A lot of the same water.Maybe too much water. FY, I agree with your advice to follow Michelle's advice to issue a warning before hitting the point of giving up. Maybe one day I will have to do just that but for now I am still learning and growing. That is my focus.

I downloaded an application that let's you listen to or download podcasts.I listen to so much helpful podcasts about many many topics: gratitude, parenting,lsw of attraction, motivation, empathy.........etc. and yes about R/M too. Recently I have listened to 3 different podcasts (many podcasts from 3 sources)
1 a father (pastor) and son (psychologue) who talk about love and respect and its importance. Their advice is more aimed at people still together but also about family and kids. Quotes the Bible a lot to support their message.
2. A H & W team who are happily married but H was WAH and W stood and saved M. Again quotes god a lot.
3. Another H/W team but these are third time married, but have studied what it takes to have a happy M.
These and much more help convince me that I am right to stand and turnarounds are possible. Maybe MICHELLE should do podcasts. I first found her book after listening to her YouTube video on WAS.

Best wishes and well done to everyone who read all the way to the end.


R 25 years
M 14 years
S11 & S13
Working on it alone since Oct 2014
M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years)
Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr.
Next R chat Aug'17
Still together
roist #2729814 02/13/17 07:43 AM
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So it seems like your W is happy with the status quo but that you'd like to move closer, is that correct? I'm interested in your Valentine's Day and other plans to make that happen. Seeing that it's been a year since your last R talk, I guess neither of you mention divorce; is that correct? I guess for you and ForeverYoung where there are no OM in the picture, the status quo can last for a long time.


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
Gordie #2729909 02/13/17 01:42 PM
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roist Offline OP
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I am not sure I would say W is happy with status quo but she does appear less unhappy with it.

I have no plans for Valentine's day. We never made a big deal of it. We have our own dates.

What I am doing is too long to reply now. I may come back to it later. I am chipping away at it. But you can only connect with someone that is open to it. Cadet drilled that home two years ago.

I guess I am giving my W space and time.II am using that time to better myself and improve my R skills/knowledge. I am preparing myself for when I will need them.

Our situation may not have moved much but it would be wrong to think it was all identical the last 2.5 years. There were phases both for the R and especially for me. It was a rolkercoaster ride, albeit not the same one as many here experience.

My whole story is here if you want to know the details.

Thanks for checking in on me.


R 25 years
M 14 years
S11 & S13
Working on it alone since Oct 2014
M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years)
Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr.
Next R chat Aug'17
Still together
roist #2730078 02/14/17 01:22 PM
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roist Offline OP
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I know today is a tough one for most people here. Try to focus on what ye have instead of what you don't have. We can easily reflect on what is missing today in our R. It is normal but can only bring us down.

Best wishes friends


R 25 years
M 14 years
S11 & S13
Working on it alone since Oct 2014
M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years)
Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr.
Next R chat Aug'17
Still together
roist #2730106 02/14/17 04:10 PM
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Best to you too. I hope you are with loved ones today.


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
Gordie #2732928 03/06/17 10:14 AM
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roist Offline OP
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A few weeks ago Gordie asked the question about what I was doing to become closer with my W. This question struck a cord as it correlated to part of my current thinking.

Before expanding on that I admit (and not for the first time)that I am probably working on too many aspects of ME at once. But I am attacking a global overhaul towards ROIST2.0. I say this as I, think for many others it won't work well, but I think it suits me. Due to his approach I think I have spent more time in my thinking, to attain an overall version of me that is consistent and aligned.

Part of my current thinking was about what I was actually doing to improve my R with W. Maybe along the way I became stuck as tbh I have done nothing new recently. I could easily sit behind the excuse, that after this amount of time and effort it is now up to her to come around. That does not sit right with me. Firstly as long as she is still here I have the time to try stuff, but mostly I am not happy with how we are living together. So I am eager to be different.I want to be more like I would be in a "normal loving" R.

So to be that man I am doing the following actions:
# opening up slightly my communication. Expressing feelings/fears/emotions. I am doing this gradually and initially on safe/neutral topics.
# I am working on how I phrase things. I am pretty good (not perfect) at letting W and others know when behavior is not acceptable to me. However instead of using phrases like "don't talk to me like that" or change your tone with me" I am now looking into better ways to communicate the same message. For example " I understand you are unhappy with xyz, but I tend to be more accommodating when asked nicely". I am only just dabbling into this so any guidelines will be appreciated.
# I hold eye contact a second or two longer when we kiss hello/goodbye
# I initiate physical contact between us. Not sensual but comfort. Regardless of my mindset I try to be consistent with this.

There is other stuff but nothing earth shattering. I am making a bigger effort to be more consistent. Over time I am consistent but within any day there could be moments I struggle. These are getting fewer and farther between but still occur. Also I try to balance several different mind frames:
1 being a loving/caring person
2 being independent enough to demonstrate do not need W.
3. Want to stay together but not any which way.
4. Respect her not being able to love me now
5. Knowing I will not live forever like this.
6. Being available but not always. Being busy but not always

Again there is more but I think I am close to perfecting the balance that is best for me, at least for now.

Recently I relistened to Michelle's video on divorce busting. It is obviously not as detailed as the book but a great summary. When I first read DR, I passed through the section on "Asking" .Forever young has also mentioned asking a few times. Now seems right. I will reread that chapter and determine some actions.

On a sidenote I have noticed several times, and not just personally but that some knowledge we learn about at one stage of our journey may only become useful or relevant later on. That is why I tend to go back through old material at times as well as learning new viewpoints.

Whereas I would be reluctant to say I was stuck, I now have started moving forward on this side of things, and other things ltoo. A long post to hold myself accountable to, but also to see if any of ye good folk have observations or comments that could help.

Thanks for reading

Best wishes


R 25 years
M 14 years
S11 & S13
Working on it alone since Oct 2014
M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years)
Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr.
Next R chat Aug'17
Still together
roist #2732954 03/06/17 12:38 PM
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Hi Roist, I think you are doing well and you certainly come across as a wise and pretty much together Guy...ie: already someone only a fool might leave..

On the boundaries front - yes that's also a work in progress for me and I feel I'm a rabbit in the headlights when the moment for a boundary comes, then I ruminate and then place the boundary.

Recent example - My Dad sometimes asks for things in what I feel is an imperious tone and it really gets on my nerves. For example he recently wanted me to get something from the store for him. No problem and I'm happy to help, but it's the way he asks. Instead of saying - would you mind picking up X for me he says (in headmaster tone) - I need you to get X for me.

So - last time he said that I managed to say (in a light tone) - Dad, I'm always happy to help, but remember to ask nicely! The best I could come up with really and he did catch himself, so I guess that worked...

No other wisdom to offer - other than saying - kudos to you for investing what you have and being willing to revisit, review and investing the energy. If my XH had done even 50% of that, I'd have been pretty happy.

Xx


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Sotto #2733058 03/07/17 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted By: Sotto
Hi Roist, I think you are doing well and you certainly come across as a wise and pretty much together Guy...ie: already someone only a fool might leave..


No other wisdom to offer - other than saying - kudos to you for investing what you have and being willing to revisit, review and investing the energy. If my XH had done even 50% of that, I'd have been pretty happy.

Xx



Thanks Sotto for those words. Glad I come across as coherent and sane.I have come along way, though not quite where I want to be. I will always be a work in progress, but I have a certain level I want to achieve before being happy with version 2.0.

I would never describe my W as a fool or stupid. Maybe that is why she is still here. Regardless I believe now that she would be foolish to leave and foolish to believe this will be our R forever. Time will tell if there are any fools in this M.

I also appreciate you supporting my efforts.

Yes boundaries take time to become comfortable with. First recognising where one is needed, then putting it in place appropriately and of course the important consequence that must go with a crossing of that boundary.

Many lbs don't put up boundaries out of fear. Then they learn about lack of respect and stamp down hard to eradicate that. Being appropriate is not the only important thing about boundaries. How they are put in place is just as important IMO. Of you shout your boundary that you will not be shouted at, it undermines your stance. So tone, wording and timing are crucial especially if seeking cooperation.

Before putting in place a boundary people should do some reflection IMO. If an issue is a trigger you should try to figure out why it affects you so. Sometimes it has more to do with our irrational thinking, misconceptions and/or expectations than the other persons behavior. Again this is speaking in general and just my understanding of boundaries.

Well done on your recent boundary with your dad. I am glad you managed to deal with a behavior that upset you and that he reacted well to it. Instead of saying" remember to ask nicely" you could say " I prefer to be asked nicely" or " I'd react better if you asked (nicely)". Boundaries are about us so where possible it is preferable to phrase it in terms of us.


R 25 years
M 14 years
S11 & S13
Working on it alone since Oct 2014
M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years)
Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr.
Next R chat Aug'17
Still together
roist #2733373 03/09/17 04:08 AM
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I know I come across as being wise and together, because most of the time I think that I am. At work, with friends, doing sport I am good. But at home I am less good. The non communication and poor interactions just hit me once I walk in the door. I am less affected than before but I dislike it more, if that makes sense.

Each day I take a little time alone to advance something I am working on, personal development or other. This reduces my working day slightly but I feel better advancing on my actions. Then whilst working I listen to podcasts about R/M, communication, gratitude, parenting, and many more such topics. To mix it up I also listen to non PD stuff which is just interesting. At the end of the day I tend to listen to music I like, which is great and gives my brain some low effort listening.

I hear great ideas/ concepts and philosophies that I want to live by. Slowly these are becoming engrained in my thoughts and are being adopted as my way of thinking.

But once home, I don't have the same energy and don't live in harmony with my thinking. For a while now I have been contemplating putting into action a way of being when with W that I improve am my interactions with W and show more love, attention and empathy. Partly to experiment if it changes anything between us but mostly to be who I want to be.

I feel that I am blocking myself doing this and otheractiobs and I am figuring out why. Maybe after years of this, I am tired of it. Not enough to give up but enough to be less motivated to try. But if neither of us try, nothing will change, so I want to change. I am not expecting a change in W but I cannot go forward with assuming that either. In theory she/it can change.IOtherwise I will create a self fulfilling prophesy.

So I am reflecting on how I can overcome my barriers at home. I am no longer down due to our situation/interactions but I want to be more UP regardless of it. Maybe along the way I will need to tell W I won't live this way forever, as sometimes that is very close to coming out. Maybe part of my reasoning is to put in place my plan for X months and stick to it regardless and then see where I am at. But despite how much I don't want to continue this way I want even less to leave. So my only choice is to change
first me and then us.

I say this now for two reasons, firstly for the last two months I have been hymming and hawing about doing it, so now I have some accountability to move forward. Secondly to give ye a truer picture of my mindset.

Going forward with this does not mean my other objectives will be sidelined.OOn the contrary I am sure I will need other focuses to stay steady. I have signed up for some sporting events so that makes it easier to stick to doing sport a few times each week. Maybe one day I will take the time to outline fully a wider view of my action plan. But I am ticking away at many, things and W is not my only focus.

OK I got to go earn a few pennies to pay the bills.

I am truly grateful to have found this place. At the moment I probably give back more than I need to take, but I know if things get hairy in my situation ye will have my back.

One final note. Earlier this year I prepared a dozen or so thank you cards to express my gratitude to various people in my life. I hesitated over three of them: W and her parents. Finally i decided it was stupid not to include W as she was the person I was most grateful for in my life. In fact i gave her her card first. She liked it. Earlier on in our situation I did a more detailed one for her. I just could not give it to her parents without first telling W. I didn't need her approval but not telling W first is poor communication that I am trying to eliminate. On the other hand I did not want to explain to W why I prepared these cards. I almost didn't give them to her parents. This is just an example of me placing barriers in my way. I realised this. I informed W I would be putting a thank you card in their letterbox. I said I was doing it for me but as it was her parents and a lot of what they did was for us and nit just me, I offered to include her name when signing. She said yes. This exchange was done by text (because I am turning into hawho's H!!!! Haha). Cards were delivered this week and neither of us have mentioned it since. I am happy with completing this project and have more cards ready whenever I have reason/desire to thank someone.

Speaking of completing stuff, I recently finished redoing the in built cupboard in our bedroom. Yeah. Another thing off my list. My W reorganised her clothes and placed all her sexy underwear in a case for storage! Whereas it does reflect where we are at and is better than her wearing it to go out, it did reinforce just how far away from any possible turnaround we are. But at this stage if she initiated sex, she could wear Bridget jone's underwear and that would be sexy!! Haha.

Wow. Guess I needed to chat today!! Thanks for reading.

Best wishes


R 25 years
M 14 years
S11 & S13
Working on it alone since Oct 2014
M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years)
Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr.
Next R chat Aug'17
Still together
roist #2733401 03/09/17 06:41 AM
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Hi Roist, I think the packing away of the sexy underwear is a good sign as she's not in a place where she wants to put that on and go out with a WW mindset! Well done with completing the DIY job too.

I understand what you are saying about progress being much more difficult when you are at home. I'm sure posters like HaWho would attest to the great challenge of keeping yourself happy and grounded in a less than optimal situation.

I haven't ever done that as we S at BD - though I had a few unhappy months prior to that when XH had been seeing OW and then broke it off (but didn't) and was pretty checked out. I began to long to be in my home town when I went to visit my folks, and found returning to the marital home difficult and draining.

I certainly find that the nourishing activities like yoga, gratitude, exercise, inspirational listening and reading, meditation really help me - and it sounds as though you are active in at least some of these areas.

I have also seen people post that it really helped them to remember - there is always a choice and I am here because I choose to stay - today, tomorrow, this week, this month - for as long as you choose to make that choice.

Anyway - not much wisdom I'm afraid - I'm hoping a wiser poster may come along and help our more - but I wish you a good day and I enjoyed the chat!

Best wishes Roist :-)


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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