Infidelity/WAH, my story pt 7

[PsySara]

Last thread

Hello friends, been a little MIA while working. Things have kind of stalled with WH. I've been using the energy to take care of myself. I stopped having lunches with WH because he appeared to be just going through the motions. I felt like I was pursuing and he was becoming more distant. Frankly I am just exhausted and don't have the strength to work on us.

We have a MC session this Thursday for 2 hours. I am not even sure what to say or if we should set goals or....? The result of the HOV DNA probe is back and it's a "bad" strain. The doc needs to do a procedure and then we will decide is further treatment is necessary based off those results. WH asked about it today, I told him the information. He quietly apologized. I told him thank you for the apology and then moved the conversation elsewhere. He has shown to be inconsistent with his behavior after a bomb drop of this so I am not going to lean on him for support. I don't want him coming to the procedure as historically he does things like that more for his reasons rather than support. (the birth of our last child was awful as he sat in the corner ignoring me while reading his phone) I may just go alone and make sure to take some ibuprofen before hand.

[PsySara]

HPV testing* not HOV

[Surfer]

Sara,

I can see you are going through a lot at the moment. I hope you watched/listened the LRT clip I mentioned (if not I am sure you will find time).

Was you H like this with the 1st, 2nd and 3rd child? I expect not. I expect he changed. If he did, he can change back. You are taking a very strong stance and pulling back a little is the right thing to do. The clip I mentioned covers MWD talking about this in a physical context (your H's LL of course).

I know things are tricky at the moment as you seem to going from upbeat to spinning. Try not to mind read him. He needs to sort himself out, you can't do anything for him so don't try too hard.

Personally, I think family time is good, and LL use is good. But you have to so it at the right time, when they are receptive and when its the right time for you. If they are not being receptive or it's not working for you. Going dark a little seems like a plan.

Have you tried dressing a little sexy and going out to dinner with a friend but not telling him where you are going? MWD talks about this too - keep him guessing rather than you doing this.

I hope all of this helps.

You are doing so well. We all have wobbles where we feel its too much. Keep doing this you are an inspirational, just keep those emotions in check and rest yourself however you best do that. Be kind to yourself. You deserve that and much more.

He may be missing the supermum and superwife part of you, but keep going. He will see it eventually. He can't deny it forever when everyone else sees it.

Surfer.

[Natus]

Wishing you the best in such a trying time.

I unfortunately dont have such encouraging words to the effect of Surfers. Im more likely to encourage you to tell him you will murder him in his sleep if he pisses you off one more time.

Show a little teeth under the supermom/wife.

[ForGump]

tell him you will murder him in his sleep if he pisses you off one more time.

Love it ^^^



I still think you ought to make him articulate in his own words what the hell ***he*** wants out of life. What's his vision. How's it all going to work.

What does *he* want to do as a parent? How much does he want to parent? How often does he want to be with them?

What does *he* want in a lover/partner? Does he want the feeling he had w/ the OW to last forever? Is it realistic? What will he do if that feeling fades w/ his next lover? Will he just move on to the next one, ad infinitum? Is that what he wants for himself?

He's making you choose for him. You've made it clear what you want. It's time for him to make it clear what he wants, and confront the realities of his immature desires.

-From the eye of my own hurricane

[Vanilla]

Having had a procedure (abnormal cell cervical removal), please don't go alone. It's uncomfortable and even with the best of operatives painful and uncomfortable.

The ride home is when you may be weepy, tired and distracted. If nothing else a little bruised.

I suggest you plan for a safe friend to go with you, and often not the closest best one, but the calmest, gentlest soul you can find.

Plan on a shower and some comfort food, space to sleep and heal, gentle music, a light comedy, or fluffy book. Take some distracting reading material to read, something uplifting.

Let go, don't try to be brave and do this alone, it's a big thing and very important. Someone with you who can take notes for you, ask the questions you may forget and be on hand for support.

Get that support in, please do this.

From a woman who has been there, from someone who has had to go to screenings for VD, because of the H I married and his doings. Treat yourself with real care, special extreme self care. This isn't an ingrowing toenail or removal of a skin tag. This is a nasty virus which could threaten your life and at best your wellbeing.

I followed eat glow nourish program, cut all sugar from my diet, juiced for 21 days. Took vitamins and all manner of antI fungal and viral remedies.

Be kind to yourself, this is in my opinion very important.

Oh yes, and cry, get angry, weep, let the emotions out. And oh yes, no shame or guilt on it too. I was very clear with what I did with the Giggalo, I was going to get tested and it was limited public knowledge. It is in my D papers.

And when you get the all clear, throw a Party!

Please take extreme self care to heart, you are very precious.

V

[PsySara]

So MC was a disaster. Wh initially started out saying he was feeling we were better at communicating and we were "okay." This was after him giving me the silent treatment for 3 days for something he could not remember in the first place. (he said he forgot why he was stone-walling me) I told her that I was confused because at best we were up and down, that just as recently as last week WH was pushing for divorce. WH said he felt this was an attack from me and the therapist (after she asked about his feelings) and it quickly spiraled into him saying he didn't want to be with me.

The MC said that we obviously had different goals (mine was to work on the marriage and perhaps salvage it and WH was...well he never really clarified what his goals were but he point blank said he didn't want to be with me.) At that point the MC asked if I wanted him to leave or stay in the MC room. I was like...WTF just happened here? She continually focused on how I should realize WH is not in this marriage and implied I should leave WH.

So there you have it, MC fail. WH went over his list of "reasons" why he does't want me.

1. We're not compatible
2. I am not "into" cars and bikes
3. I like to talk, he said he doesn't like to talk or listen
4. I lash out when angry
5. I didn't used to dress sexy at home (I've have been since DBing)
6. He likes outdoorsy things (I invited him camping recently which he flatly refused because he was worried about bugs and stuff, I am a HUGE camping fan but haven't been able to until recently and WH has shown no interest)

His list went on and on but he couldn't name one thing positive about me besides "she's pretty and nice to me." MC just looked at me with pity in her eyes and continued to focus on WH having "different goals" than mine. I said that I despised the idea of divorce and raising the kids as gypsies and that copious research shows the kids suffer no matter the parent's ability to compromise and co-parent. She started trying to tell me that there is a possibility the kids would be unscathed and I shut that down, pure stats disagree.

I walked out crying and WH was stone faced. He brought me back by work to pick up my car and we talked again some more. Overall he thinks I am feeling "guilty" about something and maybe that's why I am fighting so hard for our marriage. My face was like...WHAT??? HE said he felt I was using the kids as an excuse and that I really am doing this for my own selfish reasons. It got heated after that and he asked me to get out of the car. I decided I was done meekly "giving him space" so I calmly said, "Nope."

WH: "What do you mean nope? Is this some kind of psychological torture?"
Me: "Nope, I'm gonna just tie myself to your chest and be like 'Talktometalktometalktome.'
WH: starts laughing hysterically and immediately the atmosphere lightens
Me; "I guess I could be more humane and put a baby carrier on your chest and climb in there so we can be CLOOOOOOSE."

At this point things lightened up a lot and I told him I just didn't want to continue living in this bizarre silence where we are uncomfortable and angry all the time. WEe don't have to talk about us but at least don't shut down and not even discuss basic things. He agreed and said he would meet me at home and we could talk more if I wanted.

So when we met at home (WH had to pick up the cat from the vets) I just talked to him like a co-worker and hid my pain. Right now I am raw and so very sad. For some reason I had hoped the MC would result in WH feeling hopeful and optimistic about us; instead we had a Gottman certified therapist tell me that this marriage is basically doomed because WH's "goals" are different.

[JksD]

Hi, sending you virtual support.

Your wh is still swinging. And my dear supersara, so are you.

You can see things clearer when your pendulum stops swinging. You dont have to wait for wh's pendulum to stop swinging; you can't make it stop.

But you know those infinity pendulum decorative thingies that you put on desks? If you put your pendulum beside wh's, both of your pendulums will always be swinging. You will be feeding off each other's negative energy.

Move your pendulum away. It will still swing. But not as badly as it will if it's still next to wh's.

I like how you're interacting calmly with wh. You dun need to guilt trip him. He's doing the job himself.

(((Sara))) You are a superhero, wobbles, backslides and all. Don't feel bad when you're being human, but learn and then do better next time.

[SH_]

It breaks my heart to read this and see that the path you follow continues to create such pain my dear Sara.

I have tried to keep my thought zipped up here because I see that you have your focus on the approach you want to take and will not be deterred...

But I can't help but notice how the approach appears very contrary to DBing...

LRT

It is what MWD indicates as your best hope to save the marriage...
No guarantees.

LRT should be triggered in extreme situations...
WH says they want a divorce in no uncertain terms and appears to mean it...
He has said this over and over and over... Check
You and your WH are separated physically...
You were for quite some time...and while you are not now, his ongoing behavior and words would more than say that you are.... Check
You and WH live together but have very little to do with each other, little to no communication and little sexual contact...
Check
Your WH has filed for divorce...
Not as of yet, says it regularly...Check

MWD says she is not an expert on what works, but she is an expert on what does not work.
She says and I quote,

"If you keep pushing your spouse, you will push him or her right out of the door. You might as well file for divorce yourself because your actions are moving things in that direction. I know how bad you feel and I also know that it's human nature to try to hold on to important things in your life that seem to be evaporating into thin air. But I also know that it's human nature to want to escape when you feel coerced or pressured. So you have to stop pursuing your spouse immediately, even if you don't feel like it. It's the only chance you have of saving your marriage."

Sara, I am swinging a 2x4 here, because it is time...I challenge you to seek some advice here on the boards from some veterans of DBing...I don't want to diminish the support that you have been receiving, but it is not pushing you hard enough to do what is right for you IMHO. It is supportive to you, but, as in the case of helping others that may be on a path to destructive outcomes, we can enable, or share some tough love and guidance in a different direction...ultimately the choices are up to you, but I am concerned that there is very little DBing guidance being provided to you...or better said, the guidance being supported is with the DB principles for a MR before it hits the critical point that 90% are at when we come to the boards...I have shared several times, your best chance according to MWD and DB proncipes are LRT...

Your last update sounds very desperate...and as a man, who did not want a D and believes in marriage with all of my heart, I felt uncomfortable at what you did...I would feel trapped and manipulated in the manner you used the children and jokes to brush aside any feelings he has...I also have to tell you that it is not attractive or becoming of such a smart and strong woman...especially towards a man that many of us have little to no respect for what he has already done to you.
He should be begging you...PERIOD!

Your husband clearly has his issues...
I ask you, how can he work through them with you there focused on saving a marriage that he desperately wants out of based on his actions and words...
human nature tends to lead individuals to want to be right about what they think and feel...You understand this, correct? You stick to your beliefs and feeling very stoutly...
As MWD says, if another pushes them on this, the will put up more walls of defenses and make them run for the hills(okay, so I spiced up what she said a bit for dramatic effect)...in essence, you are not only handing him the bricks to build the wall, you are building it with him and gassing up his car so he can speed away.

I may catch flak for sharing my observations and thoughts here as I know it is very against the grain and flavor of all that share and support you.

I have seen it expressed in the forums many times that we need to recognize when the marriage is dead...stop trying to revive it, because the best you will get is a frankenstein monster, do you really want him to stick around out of guilt?
Grieve the dead marriage.
Then get to working on you and then you will create the best chance to invite a new and better marriage...and perhaps that MR can be with your WH.

Please stop clawing at the open emotional wounds WH inflicted on you...you know what I am saying here based on your profession...self care is a must before you can even think to provide first aid to others...stop trying to aid him, while you are bleeding emotionally all over the place.
Please.

I pray for you and your family...
I cry for you in my heart, because you have given everything and he continues to disrespect you...
I hesitate to ask you this...what would you counsel your daughter if you were seeing this happen to her?

Please value yourself enough to step back and follow the best advice that we all have learned of with MWD...
Love yourself as much as you desire your WH to love you...

My dear Sara...I wish I could help you see you as many of us do...you deserve much...you have the principles that can raise you to a place worthy of who you are at your core...
Only you can make the decision to do so...
Get out of the cheerless tunnel ASAP
I will continue to pray that it does not happen after irreparable emotional damage can take place.


(((((Sara)))))

[BluWave]

SH, I agree with what you say. I admit there are times I hold back from posting things because I don't want to rub people the wrong way. I have noticed that Sara, Cherry, Surfer, and JksD have developed an awesome circle of support. Perhaps others do not want to give advice that feels contrary to what they post to one another, as they may feel outnumbered. I don't know, just my thoughts.

SH, I respect your honesty and advice, and that you spend so much time on people. It is a risk you take, but I know it only comes from good intentions. And you try and do it so lovingly and with an open heart. Better from you than me. I can definetly lack that grace at times. I would imagine many others hold back from posting as well.

Sara, I follow along here but haven't posted. If you read my posts, you know I didn't DB well. What I did do well in my sitch was to draw very firm boundaries around myself. I did not show H love and affection before he commuitted to our M entirely. This worked for me but as you say, we all must do what works for us.

In your sitch, the only time I recall your H showing his commitment and willing to do the work was when you let go entirely. There was a time that you were so fed up, you spoke about being done and wanting to file yourself. He got nervous and started pining for you. It seems he has been very hot/cold with your. His list of "reasons" for not wanting to work on the M demonstrate how little he has worked on himself (and is willing to) and it appears he lacks understanding of the importance of M and family in general.

So there has been a lot of push and pull between you guys. As of now I agree with SH, his actions and words, have been fairly consistent that he wants out. I don't know if any of us believe that, but we have to take what we are offered. You deserve better than these crumbs. I think you are teaching him that he can do/say/treat you anyway and you will be right there waiting. Is that really okay with you?

What if you just let it rest for now. Can you try and be okay with not knowing the outcome of this M? Maybe it's time to table the R talks, the MC, and anything that causes you emotions or stress around this. I just can't see how any of that is good for you or the M.

It's hard to accept that, but he's not giving you a choice. In the mean time you can go back to DB principles, GAL, allow some detachment, and give yourself permission to give up the fight for a bit. You must be exhausted. You deserve a break. Maybe he needs to see you are okay without him and that your life will go on. I think it's time to let go.

Blu