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So nothing to report really. Just working, GAL, pretty detached. Still get the odd pang of missing W but I'm okay with it. It passes. I see her pretty much every day on the kids drop. Interactions are generally good. Today a little jokey. Sometimes just passes on info. rarely enforcing obvious views or providing parenting advice. Which is wise from her perspective as she just comes across badly when she does this. Whilst there is some form of WW behaviour W seems far more respectful now. So I thought I would reflect a little.

Whilst I don't want anyone else in my life right now but I do miss the company of someone I'd like to share hopes and dreams with. I do sometimes wonder what she might look like, be like. In a way, it would be good if this person is my W but IDK if I really can accept that so I will just have this as a nice to have that may or may not happen (subject to her changing and me accepting that change) I think.

I am mindful that I need some goals however as we have a slight hiatus, which is comfortable but change will inevitably come from this - albeit I expect it will. E slow. I am also mindful that if I "aim at nothing I will but it every time". My goals for now revolve around tiny improvement in our R (for the benefit of us all - this may of course benefit our M but that may also end in D, either way I can accept that). So to set my goals I thought I would consider that which have we achieved. Kind of looking back to see what has worked. Our changes have brought:

- civility not rage (from W) - time and space provided this (going dark)
- eye contact, not avoidance - acting as if helped here after sufficient 'dark' time
- smiles and laughs, not looks filled with hatred - again acting as if helped here
- a more balanced personality (rather than W looking mentally ill), I am also more balanced, I don't try to control the outcome so. Using Ws LL (WoA) help here. NOTE: these are used sparingly, sincerely and only in response as part of validation.
Much - going dark, acting as if and detaching all helped.
- discussions that last an hour at times (rare, mostly brief interchanges) - only contacting W to talk about kids is good for this. I make these discussions happen at a time in the day where W is usually better at talking ie If she talks a lot, I listen, if not that's fine too.
- no rollercoaster riding. I haven't really done any rollercoaster riding or spinning for a while - detachment is key here.
- no spew. W does not do this anymore. Previously, everything was my fault. She was weapons hot on spew. Always ready to pounce. I was always there to play whipping boy or combatant. I stopped accepting either role - boundaries and detachment. This stopped the 'game'. If the game was initiated again now I would end it. This is what I used to do prior to all this. The sitch we all end up in breeds anxiety through fear of loss (due to attachment) anxiety and decision making are poor bed fellows. When you are in this state you being drawn into dramatic interactions is common. It is very dangerous.

So where can this go? The R could improve to the point M survives and thrives. Alternatively it could take a course to D (possibly somewhere in between).

Any further R improvements are likely to be slow and steady and brought about by behavioural changes. Picking up on those things my W complained about including listening more (fulfilling LL requirements), being "there", letting her know that she matters etc will be key. So that will be my focus. Dropping bad habits (I am a social smoker - I am also very sociable) so stopping the cigarettes when drinking and cutting down on the drink to twice a week would be good - my work involves lots of socialising and the industry is male dominated so I will have to be careful in my work arrangements and my own social life. This I need to do for me, intact all of these changes I want to do for me. They will make me more rounded and happier in myself.

The point here is slow and steady. As you can't reach out to a WS, a MLCer (who is withdrawing) to let them know you care or they matter. It has the opposite effect. So I think all you can do is be the lighthouse and throw the odd WoA or AoS (etc) and see what happens.

So my goals are therefore slow and steady changes to work on me as above for me dealing with those things I feel the need to improve. I am going to spend time listening to my W and letting her tell me what she wants to and ensure she knows I am interested - I am but I don't want her to think I am not (I have been guilty of switching off in the past, apologies ladies most guys do this).

We are in the process of talking about Christmas arrangements etc so this will be a good time to listen.

Something is improving. W recently asked if I wanted to go to kids school play at same time or separate. I take this as an invitation (she is getting the tickets) and her being open to going together. Previously she wanted it all to be separate. Something I am doing is working clearly. I have also noted she is sharing how she feels. If only telling me she feels ill, stressed or whatever. Before she was so angry she could not.

I also noted at kids swimming this week, she approached me to talk. Previously I would be the one to break the silence. I just sat beside her and said how's it going (the swimming) then nothing and she starting flowing with how the kids were doing etc. We were sat really close. And she didn't flinch. Before she would have recoiled or moved.

There are lots of little things that are hapenning. I just wanted to share my thoughts so I can recognise 'our' progress (my W is making significant changes too). This will help me and can help others to see that from the horror story of BD comes a much, much happier place if you stick at it.

Surfer.


M46/W40/D8/S6/T20/M12/Separated 6/2016,W takes kids
Issues2009
Wpartying w/g.f's2013on
EA2013PAdeniedWleavesMBR
ImeetAP/EAhalts
VariousBDDates
MFCourse
WSpew
EAresumes I halt
Wrages
DBIng4/2016




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Firstly that has to be one of the longest "nothing to report" that I have ever read!!! wink

You repeatedly mentioned "slow and steady". For you these are good synonyms for PATIENCE and CONSISTENCY. So for you yes to slow and steady.

For your W maybe that is too much to expect. Yes it will be slow but absolutely nothing says it will be steady. It often isn't. I think it is great that you see so many changes for the better. It is good.MMaybe it is a thawing of her WASness or maybe she is justc comfortable with the status quo. For W TIME and SPACE
are probably more suitable adjectives to consider.

Positive signs are always welcome and definitely beat negative ones. But they are just signs subject to interpretation. You have mentioned your detachment and acceptance but I get a sence that those expectations are higher than you state and higher than they should be, for your sake.

Little 2x4 over. Your goals do seem very much so in synch with Michelle's books. I for one believe you should work towards a better R rather than away from a bad one. In other words focus on what you want rather than dwell on what you don't have. I have not mastered that yet but it is a work in progress.

Without knocking anyone, many believe standing for your M is enough.But it is only by taking positive actions towards that goal, can it be achieved. Each time I think of giving up I remind myself that I haven't tried everything or done everything I can. Keep on doing


R 25 years
M 14 years
S11 & S13
Working on it alone since Oct 2014
M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years)
Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr.
Next R chat Aug'17
Still together
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Thanks Roist. Yes rather wordy and on my iphone! I think I probably needed a chat!!

I would like to think W is changing - but I am not entirely sure I must admit.

Working towards a the best R makes sense. At times I think I am going to smash this process, win the W back and it will all be perfect. However, I realise this is all attachment and I need to be careful to stay clear of all this as I don't ever want to feel like that again (attached and unwanted). So yes you are right in what you sense. There is a little more attachment than I convey at times - perhaps I am trying to convince myself I am doing better than I am. Albeit I am certainly getting there.

Like you I also have thoughts of giving up, speaking my mind in a way that will cause a storm but hey that's just how you feel. It's part of being human. I have become extremely adept (comparatively with Surfer V1) at separating my feelings and my actions and taking an appropriate stance rather than a reactive one. When I feel like packing up and moving on I think of my kids and what else I want. I also rationalise my W's behaviour and feelings much more than Surfer V1 did.

Surfer (V2).


M46/W40/D8/S6/T20/M12/Separated 6/2016,W takes kids
Issues2009
Wpartying w/g.f's2013on
EA2013PAdeniedWleavesMBR
ImeetAP/EAhalts
VariousBDDates
MFCourse
WSpew
EAresumes I halt
Wrages
DBIng4/2016




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Fairly, urgent advice required!!!

Just had the 1st Christmas conversation (Part 1) with my W. You can tell it's a difficult subject when you need a pre-talk prior to the talk itself.

So we have a rota. I see them say 30% of the time. It's not enough. But equally 50% will take getting used to etc. The rota works for now. This is work in progress.

We are getting on better and whilst MWD does tell you to park your ego on the LRT, my ego has just twitched.

Told my W kids are here christmas eve and christmas day as per rota. But said I think we need to talk as kids need to have the Christmas THEY want, regardless of us (i.e. your selfishness).

Been trying to talk all week (apparently - although W has not called me - hence me calling her). To date we are still not organised. W is thinking drop kids and she can pick up on Boxing Day. Kids will want us both around (D9 said can't mummy just stay - she has said this to us both; I'm cool with whatever they want). W can't stay its too much.

I don't know whether just to say - fine. Stick with you seeing them Boxing Day etc. I want to say, stay you will be fine. But that's not going to work for W - she has suggested this is too much so that is accepted.

Whilst I know deep down I'd love us to be closer (detachment slipping there!!!! need to get that in check), I also don't want her back as she is - deep down. Also, whilst I want to do something that feels 'family like' for the kids I am just not seeing her making steps towards that "something" (attachment again, I know - as this is in part for me also; yet I don't want her as is...meh!).

In short, not really sure what to suggest. We have had the pre-talk about the talk (scheduled for tomorrow). I know her staying is off the cards. But I would like her to move come up with something so she gets to see the kids more over the course of Christmas and they do her. There is no guarantee that this will be reciprocated of course but, hey.

I did wonder about all just going out for a meal. But if I suggest this it might come across as chasing etc. Also, I don't want anyone to feel awkward.

I was wondering about saying. "Let's leave it that I will pick up on Christmas Eve and you will pick up on Boxing Day. If you have any other thoughts let me know."

Not sure who to handle this....any ideas anyone....?

Surfer.


M46/W40/D8/S6/T20/M12/Separated 6/2016,W takes kids
Issues2009
Wpartying w/g.f's2013on
EA2013PAdeniedWleavesMBR
ImeetAP/EAhalts
VariousBDDates
MFCourse
WSpew
EAresumes I halt
Wrages
DBIng4/2016




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Surfer:

Many of us are in the same boat. Wanting to give our kids as good a Christmas as possible, wanting to "attract" our spouse in, and needing to be strong/detached,etc.

My $0.02.

Stick to the rotation. Any compromise could end up in cake eating or you giving up something with little benefit to you and/or the kids.

If W wants to give up some of "her time" then be flexible and cooperative. I personally think there is a fine line between the kids being punished and them seeing what the reality of Separation/Divorce is.

If she is not calling/responding it leads me to the conclusion that she is not as flexible/willing as you are.


M:50
W:53
MR:20
D:21
S:17
S:11
BD-Sept 2015
Suspected PA Sept 2015-Confronted W & OM Dec 2015
Actually EA
In house Sep:Jan/16-May 2016
W moved out:May 22 2016
OM-Intro Oct/17-On scene July/Aug 2017
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Based on your wordings I would not pursue it any further. Whatever happens keep the kids for all the time scheduled. Say you are open to her seeing them on Christmas day, but make no suggestions.And say it ONCE.

Best wishes


R 25 years
M 14 years
S11 & S13
Working on it alone since Oct 2014
M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years)
Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr.
Next R chat Aug'17
Still together
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Yes, I would presume the current dates stand, unless your W requests something other than that.

I think the best thing is to focus on having a nice Xmas with the kids and creating some new memories this year. I'm sure your W will make her own plans with them on Boxing Day.

And if she suggests something different, you can always consider that and respond.

smile


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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Thank you BB roist and sotto.

I will stick with the plans. So we will be talking later. I am going to keep them here on Xmas Day and Boxing Day and have them 50% of the holidays. I think first half last half of the break is a little harsh. For W and the kids. TBH it's all new to me and I am trying to work something out that makes the kids feel very warm and connected. I also don't want W to miss their magical Christmas times. They are only 6 and 9. I had hoped she would be happy to get together with us - I guess she just will not or can not play happy families for their sakes. I kind of understand this but it's Christmas and they are children. I just find her so selfish with this. I am not letting her know I feel this way of course. IDK. I just need to accept it and focus on giving the kids the best time.

I need to make plans and let her hover around them rather than the other way around.

Surfer.


M46/W40/D8/S6/T20/M12/Separated 6/2016,W takes kids
Issues2009
Wpartying w/g.f's2013on
EA2013PAdeniedWleavesMBR
ImeetAP/EAhalts
VariousBDDates
MFCourse
WSpew
EAresumes I halt
Wrages
DBIng4/2016




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Surfer...you need to learn and practice daily the art of detatching...

We will chat soon....
You appear stuck in the same spot for much time...
There is progress to be had...
Seek out James Allen and Head belief versus heart beleif...

A man is the sum total of all that he thinks...and habitually says...actions are the building blocks of habits...
Which is getting more attention from you?


Me 46 Former W 46
D19 D7
BD Feb 2016
WAW moves out 4/16/16
D final 6/1/2017

It's time for me to start changin' the way I look at the world......and at myself. ~James Howlett aka Wolverine
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Finding it tricky. It's the weekend I need to unpack Christmas. In doing so I am seeing unwritten cards to My Husband. Every box brings a new memory and it's really hurting. It's all very well trying to detach but this first Christmas is really tough.

It's the only weekend I can get the house ready for Christmas. W recently suggested she wants some of the Christmas things. I don't know what these things are so I am going to press on regardless - I can't wait around forever for her to get organised. I am not having the house feel as if there is no Christmas. I want the kids to be blown away when I see them on Monday. I hope she doesn't feel it is fair to just turn up like a team of locusts and strip our home of all the Christmas cheer......I am a bit anxious about all of this. I think it's because Christmas was always special to me. It was 'the' family time. Best of the best. Now I fear it if I am honest.

Surfer.


M46/W40/D8/S6/T20/M12/Separated 6/2016,W takes kids
Issues2009
Wpartying w/g.f's2013on
EA2013PAdeniedWleavesMBR
ImeetAP/EAhalts
VariousBDDates
MFCourse
WSpew
EAresumes I halt
Wrages
DBIng4/2016




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