Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 4 of 11 1 2 3 4 5 6 10 11
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,273
S
Surfer Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,273
Vapo

Thanks for this. Good advice.

JimKao

I agree. However, I need to be careful as Sotto says (thanks Sotto) some of this advice is friendly and useful. Some is controlling. I think I need to work out which it is and react with a smile and nod and if controlling ('I am sure we will be just fine') if challenged i might just say. Look there's helpful and there's you appearing to exercise control in a life you gave up on. I am all for helpful info. but the latter isn't going to be accepted.

Surfer.


M46/W40/D8/S6/T20/M12/Separated 6/2016,W takes kids
Issues2009
Wpartying w/g.f's2013on
EA2013PAdeniedWleavesMBR
ImeetAP/EAhalts
VariousBDDates
MFCourse
WSpew
EAresumes I halt
Wrages
DBIng4/2016




Joined: May 2016
Posts: 791
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 791
Quote:
i might just say. Look there's helpful and there's you appearing to exercise control in a life you gave up on. I am all for helpful info. but the latter isn't going to be accepted.


What is the goal if you say this? I think she is aware she is being controlling so this most likely will spiral into an argument. This is kind of open ended. I think Sotto's suggested response is best. It is not open to argument and puts a healthy boundary in place. Your W does nto appear interested in your opinion or POV presently. she is actively critical of everything you say and do. By engaging in a "discussion" ie., argument, you are playing by her rules again.

Lately I have literally walked away from my WH when he starts to pull me into an argument. Historically I've always tried to explain myself which he interpreted as being argumentative. My end goal is to be able to disagree with my WH without arguing or fighting. Right now he is not ready to honestly consider my POV so I walk away after letting him know I need space, this leaves him to work it out by himself and I am not to blame.


M 10yrs T 13yrs
BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW
BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off
Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce
April '17-Letting go
2018 D busted
DD8, DS6, DS3
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 563
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 563
Surfer:

I've really enjoyed your experiment. I too have been wondering about appealing to W's LL. It does tie in with my DB coach's advice to rebuild the friendship.

My understanding about the LL is that one person is supposed to act in response to the other person's LL.

For the last couple of weeks W has been performing her main LL to the boys and I - Acts of service. After not letting her perform the tasks she used to perform i.e. computer help, sewing, etc. She has taken it upon herself to help in the house a little. She cleaned the bathroom, helped with dishes - as we are without laundry due to the basement reno - she has done the laundry for us.

I've been distant but genuine when expressing thanks. I've expected nothing and will continue to do that.

So Surfer et al. How does one build a friendship via utilizing her LL - acts of service?

Any thoughts are welcomed - sorry for the hijack.


M:50
W:53
MR:20
D:21
S:17
S:11
BD-Sept 2015
Suspected PA Sept 2015-Confronted W & OM Dec 2015
Actually EA
In house Sep:Jan/16-May 2016
W moved out:May 22 2016
OM-Intro Oct/17-On scene July/Aug 2017
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,273
S
Surfer Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,273
Sara,

I think you are correct re: my response. Need to be carefully to engender just positive talk.

Re: your sitch, I had exactly that experience. He may try and pull you into an argument. You can only listen, validate or walk away. I found if walking away it was important to say, this is it working right now I am not ignoring you I just want us both to be able to talk through this properly. It's very tricky this stuff. One thing I never did was to ask "how can we talk about this so it works for you, because right now this isn't working for me, it's making me feel.....etc" not sure if that would work as I never tried it.

Surfer.


M46/W40/D8/S6/T20/M12/Separated 6/2016,W takes kids
Issues2009
Wpartying w/g.f's2013on
EA2013PAdeniedWleavesMBR
ImeetAP/EAhalts
VariousBDDates
MFCourse
WSpew
EAresumes I halt
Wrages
DBIng4/2016




Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,273
S
Surfer Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,273
Bigybiz

Quote:
So Surfer et al. How does one build a friendship via utilizing her LL - acts of service?


I am not sure 100% I am also doing something that is a little "off piste" to the traditional DB approach. I should in theory wait until totally detached or even wait for W to suffer some genuine loss whilst I wait in Limbo. So what I have been doing is trying to stay NC, but when she phones me I listen and validate but when validating I also add in affirmation (LL no. 1). So I might say that's a really good way of looking at that, you are really clear on that thank you - typically I will do this when W explains what she thinks about sitch. with kids etc. In terms of AoS (LL no 2) I will offer things that help. So if W is really stressed and has no time to sort out certain things, I will offer - to take S to football etc. With services to help it's always followed by lots of thank you's. I personally think if they your W is thanking you she is telling you that you are pushing the right buttons. If she is upset with you for something - it's the wrong button. So what have I done recently:

- offering to drop S's glasses to him at school
- taking S to football
- turning up to swimming to help W get kids changed and to watch
- taking kids to school and having them overnight to give W a break when she phoned in tears as she was unwell, even offered to drop some dinner over

This all sounds uncomfortable in terms of DB as it borders on pursuit. I am mindful of this and try to do little practical things.

W went away with g/f's this weekend and kids stayed with MIL. They chose to so they have been happy - I did some GAL. Spoke to W when she was driving back as i wanted to let her know there has been a report of dangerous weather. Literally phoned and told her just that and asked if she has had a nice time. Then said goodbye. It didn't feel like we would have a long conversation (W knows I don't like her going where she went with her wayward friends - as its where she met OM) so she might have been a bit aloof due to that - IDK, IDC. But I suspect That much of the waywardness has fallen away now so I am watching myself so I don't react to any negative fear based emotions that are most likely unfounded. However, the convo when she travelled there was very long 45mins and happy/jokey. This might be as she is 'escaping' perhaps she feels empowered when doing this (again IDK IDC) but she was certainly talking in a fun and respectful way so I take this as a bonus. Also recently asked if I wanted anything to eat, coffee etc last time I popped in to W's house with kids after helping at swimming. This is really a big move and there's lost of eye contact so that's also a bonus.

This might not work, but I am 100% sure our R has improved. It does seem that when I provide relatively small AoS she responds. FIL is big on AoS and I think it means a lot to W. She often complained of me not 'hearing', as 'she didn't matter' etc.

Also, I have bought the 5 LLs of children book. I am going to read it then give it to W. It will be a gift she will accept and will give us something to read and talk about - we take about the kids a lot. It might help me to further understand W's LLs - I am assuming them at present.

I guess my approach is to be the kind of man my W would be mad to D. I know these things work for her. Being there to talk when she wants to and AoS. Other than that I am NC.

The tricky part is doing such things without any expectations. In truth I do sometimes get a little disappointed but I quickly balance this out and move on to feeling as detached as possible.

Surfer.


M46/W40/D8/S6/T20/M12/Separated 6/2016,W takes kids
Issues2009
Wpartying w/g.f's2013on
EA2013PAdeniedWleavesMBR
ImeetAP/EAhalts
VariousBDDates
MFCourse
WSpew
EAresumes I halt
Wrages
DBIng4/2016




Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,277
Likes: 8
V
Member
Offline
Member
V
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,277
Likes: 8
WRONG! Your R has not improved. As of BD, you have no R. IMO calling her about the weather was a mistake and a clear act of pursuit. Gifts for her? Mistake. It will only appease her that you have come to terms with the separation and you will mistakenly believe that you are reconciling. Tread carefully buddy, it is a slippery parth you are walking. I wish you all the best with the experiments, but I am sorry to say that you remind me sooooo much of myself. I too have tried this approach and it blew up in my face. First off all I wasn't even beginning to detach, second I firmly believed that she will see my love and realize the error of her ways. I invited her for morning coffee before work and she did come. I was a hot flaming mess and I mistakenly thought that we were slowly drifting together but in fact she was screwing the other guy the whole time. That's why I am sharing my story to hopefully dissuade someone from making my mistakes that delayed my detaching and healing. I reckon I lost at least 6 months on this futile endeavour. I snooped like a champ, I was a mess, my 2 small kids did not have the dad they deserved for a year at least and heaven only knows what damage as done to them through all of this.

Another things that just jumped out at me from your last answer. Do not be her "friend, pal, buddy", do not let her unload her problems on you, she fired you from the position, remember. If you are not careful, you might even end up being her shoulder to cry when she will have OM problems (and she will). WTF?!? Do you really want to listen to her OM problems?

Well anyhow, these are my 2 cents, you do what you feel would work. After all you know your W best...

Good luck...

Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,273
S
Surfer Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,273
Vapo,

Appreciate it all. I am 99.99% sure there is no OM. I am also sure it ended a long time ago. IDK - I can't prove it but I can still read her very much.

No of course I don't want to be her 'friend'. But acting friendly is different. I can see you drawing parallels but I am 100% sure she appreciates AoS. Glasses etc. I am not doing these very frequently so I am not too stressed about it really. Just being decent when we talk.

Not sure what to say about coming to terms with the S. I have. I don't want this but I have to accept where we are for now. She may never come back and unless she does the necessary work I don't want her back as it will just blow up again.

Not really worried about all this to the same degree as you. Perhaps I have conveyed a man hell bent on being hearts and flowers. Not at all, just making sure our interactions are positive.

My BD Coach even advised my Acts of Service should include things like taking her to the airport even though it felt like she was abandoning kids and me etc. I draw the line at thar now but when I did do that before our interactions were very good. It helped us. I do feel all this cake eating prevention approach might be a little ego based if we are not careful, so I do think there is a need to be careful.

Just going to take it steady and monitor the results.

Surfer.


M46/W40/D8/S6/T20/M12/Separated 6/2016,W takes kids
Issues2009
Wpartying w/g.f's2013on
EA2013PAdeniedWleavesMBR
ImeetAP/EAhalts
VariousBDDates
MFCourse
WSpew
EAresumes I halt
Wrages
DBIng4/2016




Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,277
Likes: 8
V
Member
Offline
Member
V
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,277
Likes: 8
Best of luck to you buddy, I am really rooting for you. I will refrain from voicing my opinion as not to mess with your mojo. smile But I will be watching your thread closely and monitor the resuls... laugh

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,301
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,301
Hmm, Surfer - remember we talked about subtle and occasional here? I'll always defer to a DB coach, but I would urge caution with the whole LL's thing and I certainly wouldn't get your W the book. She may well see right through what you are trying to do and feel it is manipulative....subtle and occasional is best I think.

There is no magic bullet here, including the 5LLs....

smile


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,273
S
Surfer Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,273
Sotto, I had thought that. I want to read it however. I am going not going to give her a copy. I will keep it to myself and just be informed so I can make sure the kids feel secure.

In terms of subtle and occasional, W has been back 2 days. I have been total NC and even have not said hello in the morning when she has dropped kids - as she has been late.

I have to text to her later though as kids want me to go to along to swimming and I am going to try and make it. I will just be pleasant then and do whatever the kids need me to do.

Surfer.


M46/W40/D8/S6/T20/M12/Separated 6/2016,W takes kids
Issues2009
Wpartying w/g.f's2013on
EA2013PAdeniedWleavesMBR
ImeetAP/EAhalts
VariousBDDates
MFCourse
WSpew
EAresumes I halt
Wrages
DBIng4/2016




Page 4 of 11 1 2 3 4 5 6 10 11

Moderated by  Cadet, DnJ, job, Michele Weiner-Davis 

Link Copied to Clipboard