She moved out...now the work begins...II

[SBJ]

Roist & j20...
I know I kind of slipped to the F-Z again, but we have always been husband and wife and best friends...it's hard to totally cut. I did not respond with any personal opinions, I just validated her feelings toward her family situation and told her that it isn't up to me to tell her and her family how to fix things.

Even though I don't want to totally cut ties with her, I do see the validity in doing so to show her that I won't always be there in that capacity, even though we will always have a parental role together.

I had only been to her place 2 times before that and had only stepped right into the door...never went all the way inside. I was kind of shocked when she invited me in. It is a nice place, but I am totally shocked that my W wants to live there. I'm not saying she is snobby, but she likes the nicer things in life. It isn't what you'd call the Ritz. For her to leave our place and want to live there, tells me that she is struggling for sure.

[job]

Previous Thread:

MLC Wife is Walking Out This Weekend

[j20a00g]

Truth speak....ready? It has nothing to do with the place. It has to do with you not being there! Your old wife may not have ever lived there before...this woman that looks like her would rather live in a box as opposed to with you.

Gotta detach man. You talking about being best friends and such for the marriage...awesomene. We all were. Stop living the past to validate you allowing her to use you as a doormat. It's as simple as this...if you are cool with being her friend, keep doing what you are doing. If you ever want to be her husband again, you very well may want to change course.

[job]

When in crisis, they are their own mirror image, i.e., the opposite of the pre-crisis individuals. So, she liked nice things pre-crisis...now she'll live in a cracker box because this is how she feels about herself right now. I'm not surprised to read how she left a nice home and has gone to something that could be considered a step down in living arrangements. She's quite content w/her current living arrangements and it's all about no responsibility and your presence isn't there. It's her safe place for now. However, all of that may change as she begins to grow up...time will tell.

"j" is right...you have to detach and allow her to come to you. Follow her lead and if you can be a friend to her w/no expectations...then that will be great. While she is out there finding herself, your life's journey has started and you have time to do those things you've never dared to do before and to finish up projects that you started and never finished. Continue to work on yourself, be her lighthouse in the storm and be the safe haven where she knows that she can come if she needs to.

I know it's difficult, but try not to focus so much on her. Stay positive and always take time to do something fun and nice for yourself. Be the man any woman would be a fool to leave.

[CaliGuy]

SBJ job has dropped some serious wisdom on your doorstep .. read that one twice.

Reading along with your sitch I am going to just throw out the vibe I am picking up here. People are really trying to get you to detach .... there is a good reason for this. Your W is in crisis and in a way you are all to eager to eat up any crumbs she might give you, this is a round about way is you pursuing her ... like job mentioned in the above post, you have to flip the table and she must come to you. This is where the mirror work comes in because let me tell you, you have to become a pillar of strength and the light for her to look towards in this. IF ... and its a big IF, you can be her friend without expectations then do so .... for us guys its really close to impossible as we use the 'friend' thing as a covert contract to get in and create something more. Watch yourself here. I told my MLCr I could not be her friend because a friend would be happy for her and OM, clearly I did not put up a tent in that camp. Can you?

If what you say is true, that you both were the best of friends during the marriage, then that's something that comes with you being her husband ... she fired you from that job. She can not miss you if you are not gone, she can not think about what she has lost when you are still filling that need. I learned this early on .... IF there is an OM, let him try to take that job over .. ALL of it, fill ALL the needs and not just the sexual side. Typically the OP's do not want ALL the responsibilities just the fun stuff.

Listen to job, find a project around the house ... heck go into that one room where she insisted on that ridiculous purple color and repaint it in a color YOU wanted. I have seen a few here turn the M house into a canvas that helped them heal ... its a constructive GAL activity that has a sense of accomplishment that would do you good.

Keep posting and keep working.

[SBJ]

While I know what all of you guys say is true, it is effing difficult. I know it can be done, but that is truly a 180 for me. I was always the one that was eager to do what she wanted or needed. Now I'm having to find a way to tell her that I cannot and will not fill just the role of friend. I guess it is time to rip off the band aid and just tell her that. I have made it a point to not call or text her first for anything. She has called and texted very little as she has pulled away.

I think j20 told me that weeks ago..."She has fired you from the role of husband." I guess that has to sink in thru my thick skull. Thanks for the "2x4"...again. At this point I don't know for sure if there is anyone else in the picture, but I know the possibility is high due to the stats of MLC.

It totally stinks that this is going on at all, but it seems that the holidays are extremely hard. I simply dread having to go thru this between Thanksgiving and Christmas.

Thank you guys for all of the support.

[HaWho]

It is hard. Until you do detach a bit. Then you start to realize it's actually harder and more painful to hold onto this mess.

As for being friends, I am in the "it's not possible" camp. I think you can be friendly, just as you would be to your crazy next door neighbor. But even if there is no affair partner, I have not found it impossible to be true friends with a MLCer. Friendships are give and take. The MLCers regresses emotionally. For you to maintain a friendship with a teenage minded person, you'd have to regress yourself. An MLCer is too selfish to be a friend, that's why they dump anyone who disagrees, even slightly, with them!

I don't think you really need to tell her you can't be friends. This will probably lead into a r talk and that is bad all around as the focus needs to be on detaching. You could just show her in your actions.

And yep, they sure do become the polar opposite. My h used to be so house proud. No he lives in complete and utter squalor. He has not cleaned his bathroom since April. And before that, he had it cleaned at XMAS.

[SBJ]

HaWho...thanks for the response. I know that we all love our significant others and that is why it is so hard for me to detach from her.

I will definitely work on the detaching thing...I want to get thru this, but this is harder than I imagined.

As for the polar opposite thing is concerned...it's not as if her place is totally bad, it's just not the same as the home she has spent the last 11 years building with me and for our family. I want to try and preserve that for our kids and possibly for her should she come out of the fog in the future.

I think you are right about just showing her that we cannot be friends...although she has this in her head that that is what she wants. I do not think that I could just be friends without wanting to have more with her.

Also on the opposite front...I know it has been less than a week, but I feel that I have become a bit OCD in my home. She and I had an unwritten agreement that I'd cook and she'd clean, I'd shop and she'd do the laundry, I'd bath the kids and she'd help with homework...then I'd do all of the yard work and such. Having to do it all is alot of work and I have had to make sure that it gets done right away. It is alot for a single parent to do, but it is possible.

[Rose888]

Re her new space--My understanding is that MLCers are casting around for what kind of a life they want to live. Moving into a completely different space seems to fit that mindset.

Sort of the "burn it all to the ground and start fresh" approach rather than a remodel approach.

It may be temporary, or it may indicate a new stage of life.

[HaWho]

Well, no surprise that she would want to be friends. This way she would not have to live with the guilt of what she has done. Don't be so available to her. Try dropping the kids off, not going in and see what happens. If she texts you soon after (when you didn't go in), don't answer for the day. You deserve better than to perpetually be on call for her. You don't work for an escort service.

My h wanted things, too. He wanted to live at home, eat dinner with us and sleep at home. Except on Saturday nights he wanted to sleep around at a rented apartment. Then he wanted to return home before the kids woke up Sunday, pretend he'd been home all night (what a phony!) and then eat breakfast with us!

Can you imagine me sitting there cooking him pancakes after he'd had a romp in the hay with some tramp!!! Point is: they try to take what they can and what you let them take.

By the way, how come you're not angry? Or are you?

[CaliGuy]

While I know what all of you guys say is true, it is effing difficult. I know it can be done, but that is truly a 180 for me. I was always the one that was eager to do what she wanted or needed.

Lets look at this a bit deeper:
Would you say your happiness depended on hers? Would you find yourself hoping she would do something for you but be some what let down/disappointed when this never happened?

[SBJ]

I think I am still mainly confused at the speed at which things have moved. 4 months today was the BOMB Drop.

I'm angry that she doesn't think we can make our marriage work. I'm angry that she is being so selfish and thinks that our kids will get thru this unscathed. I'm angry that she thinks that she is only available to me as a friend. I'm angry that my MIL is enabling my W in this endeavor. I'm angry that I have given 25+ years of my life to my W that seem totally ungrateful to her. But, thru all of this I'm not "MAD", I'm just crushed and feel like a shell of a man.

In my wife's case...I have done all of those cooking type things for her forever. I made sure that she could eat it since she is GF and preservative-free. I am an early riser, so I woke my kids up daily for school and then greeted her with a cup of coffee to wake her up. I guess I was too much of the Mr. Nice Guy for her liking.

I want to (not really) be mad so that this separation might be easier to take. I want to be able to close off my feelings to her. I want to not find her so darned attractive. But I can not do any of those things...my love runs too deep.

Two things:
1. My W makes some great pancakes too and I surely miss them...I'm a breakfast any time kind of guy.
2. But why would you think that I'm not an "Male Escort"? Just kidding...haha!

[SBJ]

While I know what all of you guys say is true, it is effing difficult. I know it can be done, but that is truly a 180 for me. I was always the one that was eager to do what she wanted or needed.

Lets look at this a bit deeper:
Would you say your happiness depended on hers? Would you find yourself hoping she would do something for you but be some what let down/disappointed when this never happened?

CaliGuy...I don't think that my happiness depends on hers, I just like doing things for her. While I do think that a healthy relationship is two ppl giving of themselves unselfishly to each other, I know now that ours isn't like that. As stated earlier some are givers and some are takers. I do think that somewhere in the back of my mind I have been disappointed by her lack of giving in our relationship...not of materialistic things, but of herself. She is willing to give 100% of her time and energy to everyone who asks...just not to me.

A friend's H said he couldn't believe how much time my W spent volunteering. She told him that she can because SBJ picks up all of the slack for her and allows her to do it. Again...I do for my family because I can and I want to, but I realize now that she has abused that and taken me for granted. Maybe detaching will allow her to see that...or better yet, it will reinforce that to me I need to focus on me and my kids.

[CaliGuy]

CaliGuy...I don't think that my happiness depends on hers, I just like doing things for her. While I do think that a healthy relationship is two ppl giving of themselves unselfishly to each other, I know now that ours isn't like that. As stated earlier some are givers and some are takers. I do think that somewhere in the back of my mind I have been disappointed by her lack of giving in our relationship...not of materialistic things, but of herself. She is willing to give 100% of her time and energy to everyone who asks...just not to me.

A friend's H said he couldn't believe how much time my W spent volunteering. She told him that she can because SBJ picks up all of the slack for her and allows her to do it. Again...I do for my family because I can and I want to, but I realize now that she has abused that and taken me for granted. Maybe detaching will allow her to see that...or better yet, it will reinforce that to me I need to focus on me and my kids.

I am just trying to see if you had some of the issues I did. Reading a bit of your sitch I see a good chunk of mine there if you can see where I am going with the question I asked.

For me, I was not good at stating what I wanted/needed in the R, this lead to covert contracts and I was the one whom wound up a bit frustrated at BD not understanding how I did almost everything for her and it still was not enough. The mirror work started there and I discovered a TON about myself with the help of these prodding, persistent, sometimes PAI vets who really get where the root of some serious issues were for me.

[SBJ]

I totally understand...I was am still shocked about the same thing. I feel that I did everything for her for so long and neither one of us was good at communicating our needs with each other. She now says that she isn't in love with me and that there is no passion in our marriage...and she also says that we have always just been friends and that there hasn't ever been passion.

She is big on romance novels and romance movies...seems like she is looking for something that is not centered in reality. I can only speculate that her EA opened up those feelings that we once had...25 years ago...and stirred something up. Now she says that she will never want to be with me again intimately. Talk about deflating.

[ForeverYoung]

But, thru all of this I'm not "MAD", I'm just crushed and feel like a shell of a man.

Completely understandable. But can you see how your wife knowing and seeing this makes you even less attractive to her? That's why you have to fake it 'til you make it. Eventually you WILL make it. Yes, it is extremely difficult, but you can do it. You want her, sure, but you don't need her. <<<Getting here actually gives your M the best chance.

I guess I was too much of the Mr. Nice Guy for her liking.

Don't waste too much time blaming yourself for her crisis. It would have happened no matter what you did or didn't do. It's about her, not you or the marriage.

My W makes some great pancakes too and I surely miss them...I'm a breakfast any time kind of guy.

Ok, so now it's time to learn how to make better pancakes! mmmm, pancakes.

[SBJ]

Just got a call from the W...she has heard back from her attorney and he has the D papers ready. She wants to know if I will just sign them with her at his office so that we can avoid paying alot of $$$, have it done quickly, and avoid going to the temporary hearing. She keeps saying that neither of us is trying to keep something from the other or hurt the other one. I'm so bummed.

She has to pull this crap right before I take a long weekend to get away for myself. She is acting like this is no big deal and that everything is great. Pisses me off. I have given all of myself to my marriage and she is flushing it down the crapper.

I guess I was hoping that she would just wake up and that we would be able to escape the D. I don't want to quit on her...why is she wanting out so fast? It's a bummer for sure.

[j20a00g]

There is zero rush. Request that she get a copy of the papers for you to take some time to look over as you don't just want to feel pressured to just sign without really reading at the attorneys office

[j20a00g]

There is zero rush. Request that she get a copy of the papers for you to take some time to look over as you don't just want to feel pressured to just sign without really reading at the attorneys office

[SBJ]

I told her that I wanted to think about it this weekend and I'd let her know Monday when I got back to work. I have spoken to a L, but do not have one on retainer. Like I said, I guess I was hoping for some divine intervention in my M.

[job]

I do not think any of us can actually be "friends" w/someone in crisis...but that doesn't mean you can't be friendly/civil. I wouldn't tell her you aren't going to be friends or do anything for her...rather...when she asks you to do something, just tell her you don't have the time at the moment to help her out. You can do this in a nice way so that it doesn't appear that you are punishing her for her decision to move out.

Always, always remember...actions speak louder than words.

[j20a00g]

I told her that I wanted to think about it this weekend and I'd let her know Monday when I got back to work. I have spoken to a L, but do not have one on retainer. Like I said, I guess I was hoping for some divine intervention in my M.

This M was over the second she said it was. The legal process is just that. Now that doesn't mean that a new R isn't possible down the road. But your odds can improve by moving forward.

[hawker]

Ugh SBJ...my W is acting the same way...like its no big deal to throw a M down the drain and being together for 10 years and yours even longer!! Its just hard to wrap your head around that, do they ever wake up????

[job]

I suggest that you retain your own lawyer to ensure that everything is up to par. Also, you want to review the documents as well as your own lawyer. Just because she wants to avoid a hearing, doesn't necessarily make the divorce equitable. It's nothing more than a business deal that has gone south right now. Even though a divorce may happen, it's just a piece of paper and yes, some day you may reconcile w/her. For now, she needs the divorce and she thinks it will make her happy and that she'll be free to do whatever she wants w/o you looking over your shoulder and watching her. She's in for a rude awakening because nothing will change drastically for her. Sure, she'll be euphoric for a bit, but once the excitement wears off, it's back to doing what she's been doing for quite some time.

You don't know what the future holds. You might reconcile, you may discover that life is better than focusing on her and her actions and you may even meet someone new. The future is up in the air at this point in time. Whatever happens, the divorce will put you on the path of moving forward and getting on w/your life.

[peacetoday]

Its hard when you get the papers

WE love our spouses and most of us don't want to have more conflict with them
BUT

the D has to be handled well and as a business deal or we may get stuck losing or paying more than we should-Get a good L

her L is only out for her best interest
She only cares about herself also at this point
They never want us to fight them and it is hard because it creates more distance

[SBJ]

Ok I agree with the attorney aspect.

Here's where I'm struggling. We were suppose to spend the Thanksgiving Holiday at Disney with a lot of my W's family. I have told my D14 that I'd go, but I'm not sure if I'm mentally strong enough right now to handle 9 days at the happiest place on earth while not being very happy.

I have made this same trip with my family and this group many times over the years, but obviously not while going thru this kind of situation. Should I fake it till I make it thru Disney or bow out gracefully? I don't want to upset my kids, but I know they don't want me to be hurt either.

[j20a00g]

You think you will be less hurt sitting at home alone in a dark house while your kids are at Disney?

Go, have a blast with the kids! They want you there. You need to be stronger than they are. If they can handle you not being there then you can handle being there. Make some memories. #yolo

[SBJ]

No the option was Cabo with my dad. Haha. I'm torn.

[j20a00g]

I'll choose my kids anyday. This is yet another sign that you have to work on detaching. Part of it is controlling your emotions and reactions to situations. For the record, MWD also recommends taking advantage of family time (not saying you go and ask her to do things as a family but, if invited by others) as it gives the opportunity to show some of your changes. Key here is that you exude confidence, happiness, and acting "as if" while there and not being the miserable negative Nancy that we all can be during this time.

[j20a00g]

I'm willing to bet a fried turkey dinner that if u were sitting in Cabo u would be thinking about your kids more than u would thinking about your dad in Cabo while Sitting with the kids.

[SBJ]

Let me make it thru the next 4-5 days and we will see. Thanks. I respect everyone's opinions and advic here. I am just having a problem checking my feelings at the door. I guess that is why standing for your marriage and your spouse is the hardest thing to do.

[j20a00g]

Keep pushing off a date to start is like making sure u hit every buffet and Dublin donuts before going on a diet "next week". That much more damage can be done and time is lost.

Regardless, this has to do with your kids. They want u there. We live a couple hours from Disney and go often...it's a big enough place for you and your w to be there together. I would hate for you to look back in 4 'on the and wish u spent the time with the kids.

[j20a00g]

*dunkin donuts....smh

[ForeverYoung]

J20 is giving you great advice. I vote for Disney with the kids too. Show 'em a great time!

[SBJ]

I may have to self medicate to deal with all of the drama...it's like a bad soap opera and I'm one of the stars of the show.

[j20a00g]

You will handle yourself exactly how you choose. You control it. Doesn't matter what the other "actors" are doing in the show. You are the lead actor and the only actor in your 1 man show. Is it going to be a family movie or a horror show? Up to you!

[roist]

Nothing wrong with medication. Remember do what you need to to get through it. SURVIVE.

[SBJ]

I'd like to say that being away from home with several good friends totally gets my mind off of the situations at home. I find myself drifting to thoughts of WHY. It drives me nuts not to know why, even though I know that I cannot make sense of her reality right now. Hope everyone has a great weekend.

[SBJ]

Long weekend away was kind of nice. The down side to whitetail hunting is that there is alot of time by yourself with time to meditate and think. I wish I could say that I had an epiphany during the weekend, but I did not.

When I arrived home my three kids were all at my house. It was nice to see my oldest, but he wanted to talk. It seems that he has picked up on how fast things are going in the D direction with my W. He said that things seem a bit odd at how happy she seems about everything happening. We only got to talk for a little while, but it seemed like he is just as confused as I am. I told him that I would not talk about alot of what is going on with him, but that I was concerned about his mother and did not want her getting hurt.

The oldest had to head back to school, so my two youngest wanted to go to the movies...great time had by all.

I am still confused about all of what is going on, but I feel that I am coming to a place of acceptance.
Acceptance that:

[list]
[*] I am not the one causing this.
I am not the one wanting out of our marriage.
This is her divorce.
I own my part of our marriage and realize that I can be a better man & husband.
I am willing to make our M work if that is what she wants to do.
I will stand for my M for as long as I can...and pray that God will let me know how long that is.
I have to detach from her.

I hope all are well...have a great day.

[ericmsant2]

[*] I am not the one causing this.
I am not the one wanting out of our marriage.
This is her divorce.
I own my part of our marriage and realize that I can be a better man & husband.
I am willing to make our M work if that is what she wants to do.
I will stand for my M for as long as I can...and pray that God will let me know how long that is.
I have to detach from her.

And which of the above do YOU some control over?

[SBJ]

eric...I only have control over "ME" and that is to detach and stand.

She had dropped off my kids to my house before I arrived home from my trip...it is hard coming home each time and seeing more things missing. She had forgotten to drop off the youngest son's backpack, so I sent her a text saying that we needed it. She came thru about 830pm like everything in her world is rosy. I guess it kind of got to me, but then I sat back and laughed. She has these blinders on that all of the things in her world are great, but her family is falling apart around her. This includes our marriage, but also her siblings and parents relationships are very strained right now. Maybe her happy face is like a blinder to all of those probs. I just don't know. All I know is, like so many have said here before, she is not the W that I have known for the last 22+ years. I miss her, but...

[peacetoday]

They definitely change in crises
become people we can't recognize

they revert to a younger time and they believe everyone is ok
Everyone wanted this for them
M XH would say why can't you be happy for me-
they think the LBS wanted to D also
They may even think they found the happiness they wanted

But it is short lived .They won't find what they are looking for and you can read many stories here to see the outcomes
Some get help-finally come to their senses
some go off the deep end

You are doing well
Your kids will see your strength ..they need that because they are confused and see MOM as different too-

[j20a00g]

Glad you had a good Trip! Welcome home!

[ericmsant2]

Well I am glad that you recognize that you have control over yourself.

A couple of things to think about.

1) If you want to stop her from taking this from the house. Ask her to let you know what else is left. After that she is NOT to take anything from the house.

2) Change the locks if it would make you feel better.

Look man, you should be civil to her. YOU do not have to afraid of her.

[j20a00g]

Not sure about changing locks. Legally speaking.

[SBJ]

No, they are things that we agreed she could take...it just hurts every time I see something else gone. Several pictures, her mixer that she kept on the counter...things like that.

Also got a lesson on how they rewrite our history today. I saw one of our family friends and she had asked how I was doing with all of this. She said she would have never guessed that we had problems, but that the W told her that we had had problems for over a year now. That's funny because up until July I thought things were going great. Haha.

It was nice to get away, but back to reality today.

[j20a00g]

Yea. Rewriting history helps to solidify and justify their "reasoning".

[ericmsant2]

Yep...the rewriting of history is par for the course.

Mine actually told friends of mine about a week before the bomb that she loved me and that things were great between us.

Realize that she is going to rewrite history to justify HER choices. This has nothing to do with YOU. Ignore it.

As for the stuff that you both agreed she should take, I would ask her when she plans to be done taking things. As for the walking into YOUR house like she owns the place. The time may come where you may need to let her know in a very respectful manner that she needs to check with you to ensure that YOU are home before just walking in.

SBJ -

1) She decided to move. You did not kick her out.
2) As a result of HER moving - the house is now YOURS. Make it feel that way.
3) Believe it or not....it will get better.

Peace,
Eric

[SBJ]

Thanks guys...I guess, even though you know that they are going to rewrite your history together, it doesn't make it any easier to hear that your entire M was wrong and didn't mean anything other than being best friends and roommates. I remember enough of the good times for the both of us I guess. I cannot forget the good times. Nobody said that M was easy, but to throw your R and your memories out it extremely sad.

I miss my best friend. I know that the woman that was once there has changed, but I sure do miss her. I miss coffee with her on Saturday mornings. I miss stroking her hair as she fell asleep. I miss waking up early and watching her sleep peacefully. I even miss the calls asking me to pick something up on the way home from work. Things have changed so rapidly for me that my mind has not had time to catch up. None of this makes any sense whatsoever.

How do you take your memories and feelings for your W and put them up on a shelf for safe keeping?

[SBJ]

To quote The Godfather..."Just when I get out, they drag me back in"...the W wrote an email today to her sister and BIL regarding something that went down right after the BD that involved the EA partner. The sister claims that my wife is not telling the truth about certain things. The W says that she is sick of being called a liar. Anyway...she copied me into the email and drug me into the conversation. I told them both that they are siblings and need to work this out. I told my W that she has made it clear that she doesn't want my opinion about anything else and asked why is this different. Her response was golden...she said that I have always been her buffer between her and them. Hasn't she fired me from that role?

She came to my house this evening to get something for the kids and I sat and listened to her for quite a while without preaching. It is funny how she wants out of our M, but still needs the R when it's handy. I tried to validate her without giving my real opinion.

[j20a00g]

Why do you allow her to keep you in the friendzone?

Say a divorce is final and signed off but eh judges...would you still be her buffer?

[roist]

You should not let her pick and choose the parts of your R which she wants to continue.

[AndrewP]

I miss my best friend. I know that the woman that was once there has changed, but I sure do miss her. I miss coffee with her on Saturday mornings. I miss stroking her hair as she fell asleep. I miss waking up early and watching her sleep peacefully. I even miss the calls asking me to pick something up on the way home from work. Things have changed so rapidly for me that my mind has not had time to catch up. None of this makes any sense whatsoever.

How do you take your memories and feelings for your W and put them up on a shelf for safe keeping?

It's tough indeed. I know this well. It does get better over time but expect to have seemingly random things trigger "the lonely". For me having a routine helps. For example I adjusted my weekends so that the time that I used to have for spending time with W is now filled with other things. It still took me a while before I could wake up on a Sunday morning and look forward to the day. It's also helped me to have some good friends and my kids who I could reach out to when it got bad. I'd text D24 saying that I was feeling "the lonely" hard that day and she would send me back some pictures of her cats playing, or what she was doing.

[SBJ]

OK so the W called telling that the D papers are ready and that they are going to serve me today...what a wonderful way to start your morning. I have not retained an attorney yet, but have consulted with one. The W is trying to get me to just use her attorney and keep the cost down...she has stated that there are no demands in the papers and that everything says that the parties will agree on everything. I am really struggling with this. Do I retain an attorney to cover my ass and really piss her off more? I understand that at this stage it is about covering my @$$, but I also don't really want to spend $5k either. I also understand that I shouldn't believe much of anything that she is saying.

After listening to her spew last night about her family, she calls me to tell me about the papers and also to accuse me of talking to her sister about her. I know everyone has said that standing for you marriage is the hardest thing you will do, but this is ridiculous. She is making it easy for me to not view her in a good light any more. I love her more than anything, but I sure don't like her right now.

She is wanting to fly thru the D...why? To get on with her happy new life? To be able to start a relationship with another man? Who knows, but this D stuff is for the birds. I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy.

[CaliGuy]

Anyway...she copied me into the email and drug me into the conversation. I told them both that they are siblings and need to work this out. I told my W that she has made it clear that she doesn't want my opinion about anything else and asked why is this different. Her response was golden...she said that I have always been her buffer between her and them. Hasn't she fired me from that role?

She came to my house this evening to get something for the kids and I sat and listened to her for quite a while without preaching. It is funny how she wants out of our M, but still needs the R when it's handy. I tried to validate her without giving my real opinion.

SBJ

Mine was very similar in this ... VERY. Even got to a point where she would try and tell me about OM and things he complained about in their R ... WTF?!!>?

Here is what I learned, maybe its part of MLC script for some and not all type thing but I will give you my personal theory on this. Imagine the intimacy and love that is shared between a husband and a wife as something tangible, like a leather jacket. The MLCr simply takes our leather jacket and puts it on another or in some cases in the closet, transferring the love and intimacy instantly to the other person/in the rare cases here no one. In their heads they simply just do not 'love us like that' anymore ... but we still hold onto that friendship shirt, the father pants, the financial supporting shoes, and the care giving baseball cap. Until we make it clear to them and set boundaries they will continue to manipulate things to their favor to get what they need from us.

I was told early on that its better to be in the friend-zone than the A-hole Husband zone. At the time it made sense and I tried that but honestly, it was not good for ME or MY journey/growth as I was consumed with every little movement she made. I had to get real honest with myself and her, I could not be her friend, a true friend would be happy for someone if they were happy ... I could not do this as her new happiness I felt was tied to a sickness/crisis and it also destroyed my M and family.

She can not miss you if you are readily available, she fired you from your job but you are still doing the paperwork. She can not realize what she has lost if its still all there. At some point she needs to gather her stuff and go onto the new life she so desperately had to have. You have to be aware this is going to be the hardest thing you have done, and its going to take longer than you would like ..... the longer this new limbo lasts the longer it will take.

[SBJ]

j20, roist, and andrew...I am sorry, but changing something that I have always done is very hard to do. We spent everyday together talking about our day and what was going on in our lives and that of our kids. She came over after work last night to get a few things for the T-day holiday and it just sparked her doing the same thing. I listened and did not give any advice. I am trying to GAL and detach, but it is harder to do when they are next to you. I don't want to be friends...I want to be her H, but as you so eloquently put it...she has fired me from that job.

The subject came up the other night as to our T-day plans and she said that things would be awkward if I was at Disney with her entire family while we were going thru this. I know I was going to try and make it work, but now this will be the first holiday in 25 years that I spend without her and the first in 19 years that I don't have at least one of my kids. Kind of weird. I will now be that single uncle hanging around my families nieces and nephews.

I just need to set a boundary for the friend-zone, but how is that done? Maybe spending over a week away from her will make things better...I hope so.

[Drew]

Do NOT under any circumstances agree to use her attorney.

You need to get your own and now.

[CaliGuy]

OK so the W called telling that the D papers are ready and that they are going to serve me today...what a wonderful way to start your morning. I have not retained an attorney yet, but have consulted with one. The W is trying to get me to just use her attorney and keep the cost down...she has stated that there are no demands in the papers and that everything says that the parties will agree on everything. I am really struggling with this. Do I retain an attorney to cover my ass and really piss her off more? I understand that at this stage it is about covering my @$$, but I also don't really want to spend $5k either. I also understand that I shouldn't believe much of anything that she is saying.

She is going to take it all and you are worried about pissing her off more??? What is the worst thing she could do ... divorce you???
GET A LAWYER

After listening to her spew last night about her family, she calls me to tell me about the papers and also to accuse me of talking to her sister about her. I know everyone has said that standing for you marriage is the hardest thing you will do, but this is ridiculous. She is making it easy for me to not view her in a good light any more. I love her more than anything, but I sure don't like her right now.

She is now gone on to the next step ... painting you bad .. this is how she is justifying her actions and leaving you ... all part of this, as hard as it is you have to see it for what it truly is .. her trying to logically convince herself you are the spawn of all evil and misery and in the way of her freedom and bliss.

She is wanting to fly thru the D...why? To get on with her happy new life? To be able to start a relationship with another man? Who knows, but this D stuff is for the birds. I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy.

Exactly. That's precisely what she is doing .... if she is divorced then she is FREE to do what she wants, she is high on the rush of 'what could be' and hell bent to get there.

Retain the lawyer ... it will cost you more if you don't ... remember this is HER divorce you are now just protecting yourself as a man should.

[CaliGuy]

I just need to set a boundary for the friend-zone, but how is that done? Maybe spending over a week away from her will make things better...I hope so.

Refuse the Demotion .... I took this route. I am a General Manager at the company I run .... if the owners (wife) told me I was now demoted to make the coffee I would calmly tell them to fire me as I would not take that position. I told my W the same, I would co-parent to the best of my ability in interest of our son but in no fantasy land would I be her buddy/pal/ear ... I am the prize, total package kind of guy ... all or nothing.

[ericmsant2]

SBJ

Her response was golden...she said that I have always been her buffer between her and them. Hasn't she fired me from that role?

NO she has not fired you. However, you can “resign” from the role of buffer. Stepping aside and allowing her to deal with this is IMHO a win win. You win as you are no longer put in the middle of something you have no place in and she wins as she hopefully learns to grow up and deal with this.

She came to my house this evening to get something for the kids and I sat and listened to her for quite a while without preaching. It is funny how she wants out of our M, but still needs the R when it's handy. I tried to validate her without giving my real opinion.

You are still making everything about HER. You listened even though it seems you did not want to (about her). You did not “preach”, which I get, I suspect though the reason was to not upset HER. When you really start making this about YOU…your response will be different.

Maybe…next time you say in a very nice way….that you have things to do and have to go. If you want to more direct – tell her that this is not your issue.

The W is trying to get me to just use her attorney and keep the cost down...she has stated that there are no demands in the papers and that everything says that the parties will agree on everything. I am really struggling with this. Do I retain an attorney to cover my ass and really piss her off more? I understand that at this stage it is about covering my @$$, but I also don't really want to spend $5k either.

Secure your own attny UNLESS you both sign a “collaborative” agreement with the attny. Even then my advice would be to secure your own attny. That said, your attny works for YOU. They can be a pitbull if YOU want to. As for the money, 5k spent now may be well worth it, especially if you avoid long term costs that could be in the 10’s of thousand. I would wait until you are served and then see what it says.

[roist]

Glad Caliguy had the time to spell out what I was saying.

Plus when you lawyer up and she realises you will not just roll over and everything doesn't go according to her plans,dont be surprised if she is less friendly/chatty.

Best wishes

[HaWho]

I've had a live-in MLCer all along and from my vantage point, people going through this are selfish and manipulative. When they do something nice, we tend to think: I think he/she is waking up!

In reality, what I found? Everytime my h would do something nice it was immediately followed by something bad.

She may be keeping some of these routines with you just to get you to sign those papers. I am sorry to be so callous. But MLC is brutal. It really is. The person you knew is gone. Lonnng gone.

Definitely get a lawyer. I know there are legal circumstances where if you move out, you abandoned the home and you lose it. You just don't know what you don't know until a lawyer looks at it all. By the way, the lawyer can look at it and if it all looks great, you don't have to tell her you saw a lawyer! But if it looks shady, well you have to protect yourself and your interests.

Also, stop worrying about what SHE thinks of you. The questions are: what do you think of you and what do YOU think of who she is today? I mean really, do you want THIS person?!?

[Sotto]

Hi, looks like you already had some good advice here, but I'm also going to chime in that you need some legal advice and pronto.

The thing is with her. She wants this to go the way she wants it. She has a vision in her mind where she walks away with X and Y and everything is cordial etc..

But, what she is proposing may not work for you and you need someone knowledgeable on your team to advise you and act in your best interests.

You won't regret it I promise - even if she gets a bit cross about it....

[MoveFrwd]

I told them both that they are siblings and need to work this out. I told my W that she has made it clear that she doesn't want my opinion about anything else and asked why is this different. Her response was golden...she said that I have always been her buffer between her and them. Hasn't she fired me from that role?

Why did you even respond to this note to any of them? She was just copying you on it, right (for Lord only knows what reason)? I wouldnt go around "telling people what they have to do." It isnt your fight anymore.

[SBJ]

Also, stop worrying about what SHE thinks of you. The questions are: what do you think of you and what do YOU think of who she is today? I mean really, do you want THIS person?!?

I totally agree that I don't want this person back, but the one I want I still remember from just a few months ago. I think that I am a pretty awesome person with a ton to give. I think I have been a great, but maybe too attentive husband. I know I am a great father, son, brother and husband. I also know that I have alot to do to become an even better father, son, brother, and husband...and I am willing to do what needs to be done to achieve that goal. MWD said it best in one of her books/videos that the spouse wanting out is making a mistake, because the LBS that puts in the time and effort to make themselves even better will one day make a great second husband/wife for someone else...I'm paraphrasing of course, but I think it is true. I hope that I can calm the storm inside my mind long enough to settle down and continue to make myself better...MIND, BODY & SPIRIT!

The thing is with her. She wants this to go the way she wants it. She has a vision in her mind where she walks away with X and Y and everything is cordial etc..

I agree 100% that she wants everything to go smoothly and her way, and I guess because it is 180* from my norm it is hard for me to get into bulldog mode and battle against her. Her mother has already furnished a condo with new furniture for her, so she wants none of the things that we spent our marriage accumulating...all new and fresh for her from the enabler mother. She wants an amicable split of house equity, retirement, and cc debt. She also is settling for 50/50 split of custody with no child support. Those are the things that she has said anyway...I guess we'll actually see once I get the papers.

We still have to agree on our kids future expenses like college tuition, private school for the younger two, vehicle expenses for them, health insurance, car insurance, and the list goes on. These are things that she hasn't looked into yet I'm sure.

Plus when you lawyer up and she realises you will not just roll over and everything doesn't go according to her plans,dont be surprised if she is less friendly/chatty.

I understand that to truly detach we are suppose to cut off most all ties with our spouse, but I guess that is what I fear the most. This was not my idea, yet I have to cut ties with the one that I love the most...even if that person is not the same person anymore.

I even got a call from the MIL earlier...she was crying and said that she is worried about my W. She said that she is doing things that don't make sense. I wasn't condescending, but I did ask why she has just now noticed this because it has been going on since July. She said she has noticed changes, but she isn't one to rock the boat by saying anything...plus my W is the favorite/middle child and gets what she wants from her mom. The two sisters are extremely jealous at all times.

I hope things get smoother, but I'm sure there are moguls up ahead.

[SBJ]

darknes...I told them both in person. The came to my house last night and asked me if I heard from the sister. I told her that I had not and that they needed to bury the hatchet.

Funny thing is...the sister called me later asking about the email and I told her the same. I did not try and explain the crazy. I just told them both to talk to each other about it.

As I said before...I have been the sibling buffer for many years. I have known my youngest SIL since she was a 13 yo kid. She is like a baby sister to me. I think we have been closer over the years than she and my W have been, but definitely so over the last 4-5 months. She doesn't agree with my W's batchitcrazy ideas right now.

The oldest SIL is ever more batchitcrazy than the W is right now...depression, substance abuse, and the list goes on. She is the black sheep of the family and my W has been the only one to try and take care of her over the years. Now my W is battling her own demons and even the crazy SIL has abandoned her. WOW my life is nuts.

[SBJ]

FEELING AWESOME...Just kidding. I just got served with D papers. Kind of blue, but at least it is moving forward and not staying in limbo.

Now onto the attorney and trying to figure this thing out.

Rumors are now circulating around my kids private school that my W has moved out and is leaving me because of another man that she had met. That is unbelievable and makes me feel a bit embarrassed. While I know that this is a decision that she has made, I still cannot get it out of my head that I couldn't keep her happy. I know that I am supposed to realize that she is not thinking in her right mind, but it is my name on these D papers. It is my life that is being shaken to its core. It's my kids lives that are being rocked by her decision to leave our family.

And I know that they are only rumors, but if true...this OM is a true piece of work. He is a very manipulative, smooth talking, conman. If true, I truly fear for her safety, both emotional and physical. I have to try and detach so that it won't drive me insane if this is the truth. This is person that we let into our lives as a family and I've watched my family crumble.

[roist]

Stop telling them to bury the hatchet. Act as if it has absolutely nothing to do with you. And in reality it really doesn't anymore. Let her handle her crap. Plus you have enough shite to deal with. Why add more? There is absolutely no benefit to YOU to discuss such matters. In fact it could be detrimental for YOU.Why? Because you're dragged into something that could be seen as you siding with one or the other. W could view it as ganging up on her. But more importantly YOU don't like being involved.

This is hard, but it is fundamental that you organise your life to suit YOU.RRemove negativity and anything you don't want. You and you alone get to choose what is in your life. A simplistic view, but try working towards it. Looking at it that way, you have the opportunity to builda most fulfilling life. It is an opportunity.

You may not see that now, but it is true.

I am sorry for the speed at which you got served. It changes nothing. It only confirms that she is unhappy and wants out. In your shoes I would get an attorney and I would tell her so, though I would probably wait until after meeting him/her. Knowledge is power.

Do not block the divorce proceedings. Accept it. But let her do all the work. Stall for time when you can. Don't rush your decisions.Be sure of each step as it could affect the rest of your life. Validate her desire to divorce. State it is not what you wanted (I use the past tense on purpose..... she does not need to know your current thinking IMO) but you will not fight it.

As for OM, I won't tell you what you should do, as I am not sure what I would do in your place. I think I would bring it up with her in person. And say that you have heard rumours and would appreciate knowing the truth. Your kids may hear these rumours too, so knowing will help you reply to them.

Just be prepared. She may lie. If she admits it, do not show your anger. Maybethis would help you back out of that friend zone. Be prepared that it could be true. I will share some words that are easy to write but much harder to live. Accept it as being the truth and seeing as ye are on the path to divorce it is now out of your business, except in relation to your kids. Protect them . Other than that she is free to live her life. If that is her path you will be better off with minimal contact.

This is not easy. Be strong. Best wishes

[job]

I have to agree w/roist on the family squabble. They need to work this out between them. You can't fix this for them...they are all adults and need to do this on their. This is their problem, not yours. After all, you've been fired as a husband.

As for the divorce, I would make sure that everything that is written up is okay w/you and your lawyer has had time to review the document. I would certainly sit back just a bit and allow her to do the heavy lifting. Just keep in mind, if you drag this out, it will cost $$$ as they do tend to have the lawyers go back and forth on silly stuff at times.

Also, don't be surprised if she comes up w/a few lies along the way. It's typical for them to do so. Just make sure you have plenty of documentation on expenses, etc.

As for the OM, he's not so lucky...he's getting a woman who is damaged goods/fragile/emotionally out there. If the divorce takes place, he may decide after some time that she's not worth staying w/but at the moment, it's fun and challenge because he thinks he's got the prize.

I would definitely let her know that the rumors are floating around and that the two of you need to have a talk w/the kids about things. It's easy to have this talk now than after the rumors really get started and the kids hear them.

Bottom line, you need to protect your children the best way that you can. If you are divorced, treat it as a business deal gone south and from that day on, minimal contact would be the way to go unless it's about the children.

[SBJ]

OK, I didn't ask about OM, but I did let her know that there are rumors floating around with the nosy people at our kids schools. Her response was priceless..."People will talk and I'm not worried about it because it isn't a secret." I didn't mention that the rumor was about her leaving me for OM.

As for the family discussions...I'm done with them.

Regarding the D...as someone stated earlier, this is her divorce and at this point she is the one wanting out. I am coming to grips with that fact. It is hard to accept something that you didn't want, but I have to get over that hump.

The funny thing is, Job, that you are right...I do see her as damaged right now. While still beautiful, she looks different, speaks different, and is making no sense whatsoever. Should this continue, I don't know if I will recognize her by Christmas.

I am realizing that this is not about an unhappy marriage...it is about an unhappy person. For whatever the reason, she is unhappy. That has saddened me, but I will have to stand up and move forward without her for now. I will do this for me and my three kids. If she finds happiness away from me, then I will have to find peace with that. If she realizes down the road that she made a mistake, then I will have to figure that out. I just want my kids to be safe, sane, and happy throughout all of this.

Thanks you guys for your 2x4's and advice.

[fightin]

Hi SBJ, I don't have any words of wisdom, but here to offer sympathy and say I'm sorry you're going through this. Stay strong!

[SBJ]

Thanks for the support "fightin"...encouragement is needed, but so is the tough talk at times. Guys need the tough talk and a 2x4 sometimes to make things sink in.

I did several things today that I needed to get done.
Separate Checking Acct.
Retained the Attorney...means made payment $$$
Dropped off the Temporary Orders and the D Papers to the Attorney to go over.

Spent some time trying to figure out what stage that I'm in.
I think I'm past the denial (mostly).
I'm done bargaining with her.
I am still kind of mad (Anger), but mostly just worried for my kids sanity and for her sanity/safety.
I am occasionally depressed, but it passes if I don't have contact with her.
Maybe I haven't hit the resentment stage and I know I have not hit the acceptance stage, although I feel that I should come to grips and embrace the divorce, so that I can move on, drop the rope, and get a life.
That leaves self-growth, forgiveness, renewal, and living again...I am definitely not there yet.

It is interesting trying to look at things from the outside in. My life right now looks like a bad episode of Days of Our Lives.

[peacetoday]

SBJ

You are doing good

The grieving for the LBS takes time and it lasts until it stops around 1-2 years

It is better to go fully. through it now and make all the changes we can
if we try to avoid the grief, it comes back later
we can't skip it-

as I look back -I remember that time as one of the most painful/transforming
actually I dont see it as bad--I remember the pain but no longer feel it
I dont miss my XH and my kids are doing amazing despite the fact they haven't seen their father in many years-

[Esame]

SBJ I agree with peacetoday, you are doing great! I think the stages can often get repeated, or some times they run at the same time, like parallels. Be kind to yourself, even when it gets bumpy.

[SBJ]

Rough week this week with being served with the D papers, signing the temporary orders, and retaining an attorney. Also the W and I discussed the holiday and decided that it would be best if I did not attend the family trip to Florida. It was going to be our 5 plus 15 of my in-laws...they are all going a bit nuts with our separation right now. They left early this morning. I hope and pray that they all have a great time, but it is truly hard not being with them right now. Even though she and I are on the outs right now. This will be the first holiday in 25 years that I will not be with my W and the first in 19 years that I won't be with at least one of my kids. S19 says that he understood and said he wouldn't be able to go either if he was in my shoes. D14 understands but was sad. S10 didn't understand and took it the hardest. I had a rough morning knowing that they were traveling without me today.

I am going to head out of town and spend Thanksgiving with my father and one of my brothers and his family...hopefully I will get to play a little golf and also watch some football. I will check in next weekend.

I hope everyone has a bless holiday week.

[job]

Travel safely and enjoy the time you spend w/your father and your brother and his family. I know it's not the same as going w/the family, but maybe you need some time to just relax and be away from the ever ending drama for a change.

[SBJ]

Thanks job...I am truly torn.

A friend asked me today why I was having such a hard time with this...I had to explain to them that I wasn't the one that fell out of love with my W. This is something that she has decided to do. Whether she has been planning this for a long time, or if it was just something that happened this summer...it is her decision. I am thrown into having to accept that she is wanting to get out of our M while I'm still in love with her. I have to let go of something that I thought I was going to have forever and someone that I thought I'd grow old with. I guess that is why we are described as the LBS.

He was recently married for the first time last month. I think He finally understood, but unless you are in the storm I don't think you would really understand.

[j20a00g]

Enjoy Cabo bud!

[SBJ]

Cabo isn't happening...planned too late. A change of scenery anyways...Dallas, TX.

I'm missing the kids already. Won't see them until Saturday after Thanksgiving.

I had a couple of emotional rides today, but got thru them pretty good. I saw an interesting quote from someone on the board...he quoted Yoda from Star Wars..."Train yourself to let go of everything you fear to lose." - Yoda

I guess I need to learn from the little guy.

[roist]

I don't think most people can understand our turmoil UNLESS they have experienced it first hand.

This is also why the lbs needs to be careful who he listens to. Advice whilst often well intentioned may not be really in their best interest.

That will be hard to wait to resee your kids. Distract yourself as much as you can. Remember SURVIVE.

Best wishes

[SBJ]

Thanks brother. No there are very few who know what we are going thru. I think about and pray for the W and kids right before bed and right when I wake up every day.

Yesterday was filled with house cleaning and laundry. Did dinner with my father who is in helping with my grandmother. The tough part was that I kept getting pics from the W, the kids, and my SIL from their trip. Everyone except the W saying that I'm being missed. That makes it difficult.

Today will be reading, football, and hopefully bow hunting this afternoon.

2.5 day workweek this coming week and will try and enjoy the holiday, but I'm looking forward to 5pm next Saturday when I get to see the kids.

[roist]

Even IF she missed you though unlikely yet, sheccould never let you know.It is in the WAS rulebook!!

Glad you are keeping busy

[SBJ]

roist...I totally understand that that is true at this point. Things are still so new and raw right now. I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to drop the rope that I maybe think that I have held up by myself for so long. Kind of coming to grips with how one sided our M has been for so long hurts. But it also hurts replaying in my mind all that she has said about us. She may have felt negatively for a while, but to say she has felt a certain way for 20 years is just dumb and insulting.

I know that is why we are suppose to fill our time and our minds with new things, but it is still hard to ignore. I promise that I am not making up having a great marriage and a great life. I may have overlooked a couple of things, but we have built a happy life, and it is mind boggling that she is simply able to walk.

[SBJ]

Having a difficult time...my W keeps sending me pics of our kids having a good time and telling me that they are all doing well and having fun. While I am glad to see the pics and hear that they are doing good...it hurts. It hurts that I am not with them. It hurts that she is not more understanding as to how hard it is for me to not be there with them. It just hurts because I want nothing more than to be there as their dad and as her husband. It effing hurts.

I have enjoyed a relaxing weekend...watched football, did my house chores, had a couple of nice meals with my father, but also had to discuss the D with him as well. So, that kind of brought me back down to reality. I also received several texts from friends checking on me to make sure I am doing ok since they know the situation. I know I am suppose to fake it until I make it, but it is hard to keep my chin up all of the time.

My FIL invited me to dinner tonight and I am torn about going. I don't want it to turn into a pitty party. He is not in agreement with what my W is doing regarding the impending D, but as we all know...there is nothing he can do about it.

[Esame]

I'm so sorry to hear that you are having such a hard time. I think you shouldn't believe a word your wife said about the past, rewriting history is a common MLC symptom and that is why you are supposed to "believe nothing they say and half of what they do". This is vital for your sanity. It hurts to hear those horrible words but you must simply ignore them, like lies or fairytales.

I think you should concentrate on how happy the kids are instead of how much you miss them, their relationship to their mum is separate to yours, I know it's hard, but at least they are happy.

Take care

[Lifes Twists]

Hi SBJ,

In response to your question on bttrfly post I would say that I did not embrace the divorce. I accepted it as just another step in the process.

After the divorce, I did not persue her. I would ask about things concerning the kids or taxes, always in a business like manner. I would always ask her how she was doing, again more business like, when ever we did talk. All communication was via text and kept short.

I truely think she thought the sun would shine, angels sing, etc. It came to her fairly quickly that she still was not happy. then she reached out.

You just have to wait it out.

[SBJ]

I guess some of them are able to work thru this while staying in the house. Some of them separate while staying married while working thru it. And, some actually believe that they have to D before they will truly be happy.

I can only hope and pray that she will see and reach out. If not, I can only hope and pray that I can let go, move on, and be happy.

[Vapo]

Millions have done it, you can to. LEt go of worrying about her, you have to save yourself first. Like in an airplane, first you have to put on your mask, only then can you rescue others...

I know this will sound funny, but at least for now you have to shelve your love for her and make yourself a priority (probably for the first time in your life). We have always been told that we mustn't be selfish,... But this it the exact time to be selfish and to take care of yourself first.

Stay strong buddy...

[Lifes Twists]

You have to accept that every case of MLC is unique. Their are similarities, but no two work out the same. What you have to learn through all the lessons here is to just go on living your life and give her the room she needs to heal. Unfortunately, like a deep cut, there will be scares. the scares may be just a light blemish or they may be a huge ragged one. All you can do for her is to give her the time and patience to heal. Be available to help if she reaches out but don't expect anything in return. Let her see you continue to be a strong great father to your children.

If she reaches out to you, possibly asking you if you are happy answer her by asking if she wants to talk. When my ex asked me I said yes and no. Yes that I still had my daughters around me and that I could participate in their life. No, that I never wanted the divorce and that I had truely enjoyed being a husband. Even after that first talk don't expect or even want a sudden change. What I have seen is this usually ends up bad with the spouse running back into the tunnel. Take it slowly. Like I have said elsewhere it truely is like watching the grass grow. Enjoy the good moments when they come. Learn to read her enough to sense when she need space to process things. Continue to live your life and allow her the room she needs to heal.

[ciluzen]

I, for one, can attest to what Life Twists is saying. I have learned to view the D as part of the process. My experiences with XH this weekend have shown me that he still is not quite right, but his stressors are very big and numerous at the moment, from business to family. I make sure that I let him know by my actions and demeanor that I'm ok and even happy, but that I am a safe person to talk to. I do not contact him, but oportunities arise an I make the most of them. DBing is almost second nature at this point. Almost.

I, too, have struggled quite a bit with the pain of feeling left out of the "family fun". As my D's are grown, he has latched on to his EA's family as a surrogate (really has for years). I babysat her kids for years while she worked with my XH and now I am no longer a part of their lives...but XH spends most holidays with them. I only hear about things second hand, but I get the left out feeling with that and when he gets together with my own kids. I know receiving the pictures and texts are painful, but try this little technique (it is something that is finally helping me). When you get those pictures and texts, recognize your feelings are of jealousy of your W enjoying the kids and how unfair it is that you are not there to be a part of it...or whatever else you might be feeling. Then flip it and find the positives...and mentally thank her. Be grateful. Thank her for making sure that the kids are happy when they spend time with her. That she is trying to meet their needs and is a good mother. It could be worse...some MLCers ditch the kids. If you feel strong enough, and the feeling becomes authentic, you could even actually, briefly, thank her for those reasons when you see her. Its just psychology...negative thoughts lead to more negative feelings; positive leads to positive. It does hurt and is extremely painful, but you can only control your actions and how you react to things. It takes practice, but hey! The focus is on you right now. Its part of your PMA. Its why we focus on us, and this is a way of owning our reactions to feelings and changing them. Practice makes perfect.

[SBJ]

I know this will sound funny, but at least for now you have to shelve your love for her and make yourself a priority (probably for the first time in your life). We have always been told that we mustn't be selfish,... But this it the exact time to be selfish and to take care of yourself first.

You are 100% correct...I have been the least selfish one in our relationship for 25 years. We had a bad on-going joke that there are givers and takers...guess which one I was. I will try and focus on myself and my kids...it is dang near impossible for me to ignore my feelings for her, but I will work on "shelving my love for her" for a while.

If she reaches out to you, possibly asking you if you are happy answer her by asking if she wants to talk. When my ex asked me I said yes and no. Yes that I still had my daughters around me and that I could participate in their life. No, that I never wanted the divorce and that I had truely enjoyed being a husband. Even after that first talk don't expect or even want a sudden change. What I have seen is this usually ends up bad with the spouse running back into the tunnel. Take it slowly. Like I have said elsewhere it truely is like watching the grass grow. Enjoy the good moments when they come. Learn to read her enough to sense when she need space to process things. Continue to live your life and allow her the room she needs to heal.

I have truly enjoyed being her husband...I guess that is one of the reasons that this is so hard. It seems that I am just as disposable as a pair of shoes to her. I know that everyone says that the MLC'er is very confused, but it sure does seem that she has it all figured out.

I know you say that it is a slow process, but we are only about 5 months from BD to D filing. She has a plan that I am not involved in...so that is kind of scary to me.

At this point I am trying to prepare myself to go on without her...Something that was never on my radar. I guess I need to figure out how to keep my sanity. Rumors are floating around our small community that she has left me for this OM. It is all I can do to keep from searching out the ppl that are spreading this rumor. Even if it is true, I don't want my kids hearing it.

I just hope and pray that one day she will realize that what we had and how good things actually were.

It could be worse...some MLCers ditch the kids. If you feel strong enough, and the feeling becomes authentic, you could even actually, briefly, thank her for those reasons when you see her. Its just psychology...negative thoughts lead to more negative feelings; positive leads to positive. It does hurt and is extremely painful, but you can only control your actions and how you react to things. It takes practice, but hey! The focus is on you right now. Its part of your PMA. Its why we focus on us, and this is a way of owning our reactions to feelings and changing them. Practice makes perfect.

The pics are OK with me...they do sting, but I told my kids to send them and they know that I want them to have a blast. I actually want them to have a great time, but secretly, I want my W to realize that it wasn't as fun without me there.

She is a great mother and in know way has she shown that she will ever ditch the kids. The only person she wished to ditch was me. I guess in her mind I was the one that was standing in the way of her fantasy world.

I am trying to stay positive, but it is mentally challenging. My FIL/SMIL asked me over for dinner last night. It is kind of refreshing to know that they see what she is doing as wrong and toxic for our family. He told me that I am the son he never had and that truly makes me feel good...especially since he has another son-in-law.

Thank you all for your word of encouragement. It is a good feeling to know that we are all fighting this battle together. There is a true strength in numbers.

[SBJ]

Just a comment on something that my SIL told me that happened yesterday on their Disney trip. My W and her family (19 people) were all having dinner yesterday at a place in Hollywood Studios at Disney. My oldest made loud comment about one of the menu items..."Dad's Favorite Meatloaf". My SIL said that he yelled it out loudly and my W poked her head up quickly...once he realized, things got totally quiet at the table of 19 people. I guess that was a show stopper. I am usually the loud, sarcastic one at the dinner table...I'm glad to see that he has learned from he. HAHA!

[SBJ]

I'm not sure what everyone's religious beliefs are, but today's Gospel reading was Luke 21:12-19. After reading it verse 19 really stuck with me about all of our situations.

Luke 21:19 By your endurance you will gain your lives.

It truly takes a certain amount of courage and endurance for us to deal with what we as a community are going thru. I am finding it difficult to be thankful right now, due to the place that I find myself in, but I am extremely thankful for all of the people that have helped me with words of wisdom and encouragement. I am thankful for the 25 wonderful years I have had with my W even though she is in her state right now. I am thankful for my three wonderful children. I am thankful for my parents, siblings, extended family, and all of our great friends. There are so many good people in the world that are truly empathetic to our situations.

Give thanks in all situations...

[SBJ]

So I hope everyone had a great holiday weekend. It was rough being away from my Kids...and even the W for the last week. i picked up the kids yesterday and have enjoyed relaxing with them. Back to the bump and grind of work and school tomorrow.

I have not posted much this weekend, but have kept up on some situations. I guess I still get overwhelmed at the number of us going thru this at any given moment.

I spent some time reading from Sandi on her WW posts...can our spouse that with ink is in MLC also be WW? It seems that if they are cheating then they are wayward...right? And it seems that all we can do is GAL, move forward as if by ourselves, and become better men. If they see it and like it then great...if not then someone will notice you that may fill your needs better???

The W has been gone 4 weeks already and I am still coping with the quiet. She came by today to get her Christmas decor...I surely don't feel festive, but I will do what my kids want regarding the decorating. Going thru this around the holidays sure does stink.

[Vapo]

Well of course they can, it's pretty much the rule...

[SBJ]

I guess I was reading from someone else's POV and was overwhelmingly confused. They are thrust into a crisis and then go wayward I guess.

The W came by yesterday to get Christmas decorations for her condo and seemed odd. Maybe it's just me, but some of what she says sounds like it's from a nervous teenager. The way she speaks to the kids sometimes is like she is back I high school. But, isn't that what happens?

Again I'm tying to make sense of something that doesn't make sense...shame on me.

[roist]

No shame.It is normal to want to understand.

But there are many more productive ways of using your time.

Best wishes

[SBJ]

No don't get me wrong. I missed my kids and W for the 9 days that they were gone, but I had a good time. I got to enjoy time with my father and one of my brothers (and his family). Watched countless football games and also played golf on Friday. That being said, when I picked up my kids and was able to excitedly hug them (while the W was stand-offish) it was awesome.

I was truly head over heels in love with her, but I can see that changing now. I want to love her and have her love me, but I can see now that that is up to her. Like someone said before...she knows how I feel about her, so there is no need in telling her repeatedly, but part of me wonders if she wants me to fight for her...I don't know. She has moved out. She has filed for divorce. This is all to do with what she feels that she needs. I guess that is why it is so frustrating. It is like waiting on paint to dry.

[j20a00g]

But if you are truly detached and gal then you aren't watching the paint dry. The wall is painted, carry on and eventually it will be dry. Maybe not when you want it to be and maybe it dries a different color than you wanted but, trust that it will eventually dry whether you watch it or not

[SBJ]

You are right that I have not fully detached. I am honestly working on just focusing on me and my kids, but I am finding it extremely hard. Like you, J20a00g, I have spent 25 of my 46 years with her. It is a loss that I never imagined that I would incur. Maybe I took our M for granted, but I really thought that we'd break the D cycle in our families.

I am realizing that she was emotionally divorced from me for a long while, but that doesn't mean I was. I am also having a difficult time with all of the rumors circulating in our small town that she left me for OM. My brother, who loves in another state, heard from one of his frat brothers, who heard from a friend, that was a BIL of one of my wife's friends that she left me for this OM...I know that was a mouth full but that was the way it worked.

I still don't have any proof that they have a physical R, but I do know that they had an EA. Supposedly they ended the EA in mid-July, but she claims that there is nobody else. Again, if I were truly detached, I guess I wouldn't be thinking about that EA/PA at all...right?

[Vapo]

Luck buddy, I will put it to you in some vulgar terms.

SHE DOES NOT KNOW WHAT THE [censored] SHE WANTS!

She's just not happy and believes or she at least she convinced herself (was convincing herself) for at least the last 2 years that the reason for her unhappiness is YOU. And this is not going to change over night. I mean, you see, don't you, that she is unable to comprehend that it is her fault how she feels. Well, she can't. For all intents and purposes she is an emotional infant.

[SBJ]

Vapo, I know this, but I guess I am one of the hard-headed guys that need many 2x4's before it sinks in.

She called me today surprised that I have hired an attorney. She thought that I was just going to use hers and agree to everything. It kind of felt good that she realized that I wasn't just going to agree to her like my usual self. I'm not saying that she used me as a doormat, but I have been extremely flexible over most of our marriage.

I'm not going to railroad her on the D process, but I'm not going to lay down and take it either. She is definitely not the woman I married, but I can still see her in there somewhere. Maybe letting her go thru with her D is the answer...I simply don't know, but I am having to accept it and try to figure out my life moving forward.

[job]

New Thread:

She moved out...now the work begins...Part 3