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The news that Jack has left the building has hit me fairly hard. When he first started posting on my thread I knew that I had encountered someone who "got it", who knew exactly what it was that I was going through and the fears and doubts that plagued me.

Perhaps he'd mellowed a lot over the years, people including himself said that he did. I never felt that I was whacked with a 2X4 by him but that he he was guiding me along a path that he knew well.

I noticed as well that for a "vet" that I was getting an unusual amount of attention from him on my thread. I like to think it was because he saw something in me, my family and my situation that made him think that it was a place where he could have an impact, do some good. He did.

Here are a couple of interactions between us that I remember fondly. I think they point to the kind of kind and thoughtful man that he was.

Originally Posted By: Jack_Three_Beans
Andrew,

It is pleasant to talk with you and that makes it easy to do so. It doesn't feel like I'm trying to push my head through a brick wall, and I am sure that others would agree. The ability to honestly take stock of yourself is vital to this.

Ok enough unicorns and rainbows.


Originally Posted By: Jack_Three_Beans
Originally Posted By: AndrewP
I am not worthy.


Shut up. smile
So about that pride thing.

Here is my horrible secret.

Cavet first.

I was going to be a better person no matter the outcome of this. I knew it. Even if she didn't come out of her MLC...I would be great.

Here is the horrible pride part.

I had a saying I used often. I'm not certain if I am going to say it 100% correctly.

Whether it is a 1 in 100 chance of saving your marriage or a 1 in 1,000,000,000 chance of saving your marriage it doesn't matter the end number, what matters is the first number.
Be the 1.

My sin was knowing that I would be the 1. That was my pride.

Let it be yours.


Well - enough unicorns and rainbows. A bit of journaling.

W appears to have ducked fully back into her tunnel - and yes Coly23 / Altair - I'm going to try hard to not speculate or mind-read. No follow-ups looking for her recipe book, no visits to the house, reduced Facebook activity. She's still monitoring my SnapChat story "very" closely it would seem. There are some things she may have noticed though that she would have seen through Snapchat that may have caused her to "eh?" in that cute Canadian way we have.

I went into the main garden shed where the snow tires are stored and made sure that W's were in an obviously different pile than mine. I'd hate for her to accidentally take my snow tires. I would usually do this for W but that's not my job this year. I did have a look for her snow mats for inside her car but couldn't find them. Perhaps she took them with her in July? Given the randomness of everything else that wouldn't be a surprise.

The dining room is now quite tidy - Snapped a picture of the clean dining room table with a nice cloth on it that I had never seen before (it turns out that I have about 7 table-cloths) to the kids and to my story. The flower shop I patronize is having an open house next week and I'll pop in and see what they may have for a centre-piece. About another 1/2 box of stuff came out of the dining room for W's dragon hoard (sans dragon). Nothing that I'll miss. It included her grandmother's pearls which were buried in a box in the buffet. I'd been going to get them re-strung for her last Christmas but couldn't find them at that time.

During the tidy I tucked our wedding picture into a drawer but then took it out again and put it back on the buffet last night. Still not sure about my direction here as far as removing W from the house

My Dropbox account where I store all the pictures including the ones I scanned was starting to get a bit full and disorganized so I did some tidying there too. I created a mirror directory for photos and moved all the photos that were of W's family including some older ones that I had scanned in the summer. W has abandoned the originals in the house - not my problem at present. I shared the folder with S22/D24/W and they would have gotten a notification of a new shared folder. I sent the kids a follow-up note saying that I was tidying up and that if there were pictures they wanted to make sure they grabbed them. I don't think they ever felt close to either W's or my extended family so I don't know if they will bother.

I've been not wearing my wedding and anniversary ring around the house especially at night. It feels less and less weird all the time. I almost left for work today not wearing them but remembered before I got out the door. I still wear them most of the time when I'm out to prevent conversations I don't want as well as because of my promise to W that I wouldn't take mine off first. I'm not sure if I'm still in compliance with that or not - kind of a grey area. <speculation about W removed - Hi Coly and Altair!>

I had a nice call with D24 yesterday afternoon. She's going to give me some pointers for the meatloaf that I want to make this weekend. Her job hunting is just started in her new home and I made a bunch of encouraging noises. I think at one point she thought I was going to ask her about W and she seemed to tense up but my question was about meatloaf. I have a call planned with S22 later today. I hope he's doing well. He actually let me know how much money he needs (we still support him) for a passport so we can both go to see D24 and her husband in March. This will be the second time I've tried to get him to get his passport but the first time it's been associated with a trip for him. No clue if W calls them or not but I suspect that she doesn't frown I've thought about encouraging them to call her but - that's not my job.

This weekend will be full of fun and excitement as usual. I need to buy new underwear thanks to the LBS diet, do my laundry, get my fresh roses etc. I'm having lunch with both of my brothers on Sunday - not sure if they'll be leaning on me about anything or if they just recognized that I've been lonely and they've been busy and they're making time for me.

I'm also going to pull out my 16' sloop and raise the mast and set the rigging for Halloween. I put some rats and pumpkins etc along the rail and dress up in a Pirate costume myself to hand out the candy. This year for the first year in a while the weather should be nice enough for me to sit out in the sloop again rather than in the front porch. I do so love doing this and the kids and their parents seem to like it as well. I've even had kids come to the house dressed specially as pirates and climb into the cockpit to get a picture with me. I'm glad that D24 pushed me to not drop this this year. The candy this year is reduced from past years. The price of chocolate is just silly. I have about a dozen bags though that include a handful of chocolate coins that I would usually have in all the bags that I'm going to hand out to anyone who shows up dressed as a pirate and to the lady from the flower shop and her son if they come by.

Thanks for visiting and reading.

I think that for the next few days I'm going to keep "standing" because Jack wouldn't want me to give up too easily. He did tell me to use whatever fuel would burn to do that. I think that would have made the old pirate smile. We'll see what else I can find later.


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The news of Jack's passing hit all of us hard. I can still remember when he came to the forum many years ago. Jack gave you some wonderful advice and he definitely would not want you to give up until you are ready to do so. Giving up is too easy and there are many lessons that you need to learn as you walk your life's path. What are they/ Well, I can't say, but you'll know what they are when they come along. Don't be ashamed or feel guilt if you don't understand the lessons the first time around. Many of us have had to do the lessons several times before we "got it".

Sounds like you've been busy in tidying up around your home. Are you ready for Halloween? I see you are in the process of decorating...but what about candy for the goblins?

One last thing...standing doesn't mean standing still. It means that you are standing for your marriage, but you are also moving forward. Keep up the good work!


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Thanks job. I think that without those early posts on my MLC threads that you, eric, and especially Jack were so very kind and patient on that I would indeed be having a much harder time of things right now than I am.

I reduced the candy budget a bit this year but have had it around for a few weeks picking most of it up at early sales. I can actually resist it never having been a big eater of sweets. W would try to sneak some when I wasn't looking in past years. I wish I could send her a treat bag (she loves sweets) but that would get me a whack with a 2X4 wink Although I remember once when my Mother (who passed away quite some time ago) came to my house dressed up and I didn't recognize her and she got a bag of candy. Maybe W will do that (I doubt it). I always try to have some special extra loaded bags for special people too. The neighbour across the street (who does a witch theme) and I always visit part way through the night and give each other bags of candy too.

When the kids were little I would get dressed up and take them around the village hauling a small wagon to carry the loot. When they got bigger and stopped going and after I started building the sloop I started the whole "pirate ship" thing. The first year I sat out drinking rum and handing candy out by the handful. I only got part way through the evening before running out (of candy) laugh Since then I pre-count and bag everything up which I did last week. I also have a bag of food for the food bank (this year W's granola bars etc that I'll never eat) for older kids who sometimes go around "Trick or Canning".

I'm really looking forward to it. As I was telling the flower shop lady (I need to get a short form for her that isn't NG), I look at Halloween as an opportunity to give back to the community and be thankful for the good fortune that I have had. I said (and believe) that despite what has happened to me and my family this year that I am indeed very fortunate.

PS - I just got a Snapchat from D24 showing me the decorations she has for the cupcakes she is making for a Halloween party - I think the apple does not fall far from the tree there.


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Originally Posted By: AndrewP
Originally Posted By: Ginger1
Andrew,

For the sake of argument, what would change right now if you weren't standing? What would you be doing differently?

The main thing that would be different I think would be that I wouldn't be feeling like I'm hiding / protecting something. Even though I'm an introvert I'm a very public person - the exact opposite of W. She loves groups of people but guards her privacy strongly.


I still don't really understand this.

Theres not a secret to guard. You can tell other people, but, frankly, it isn't any of their business. So if it doesn't come up in conversation organically, then theres no reason to be making grand proclamations anyway.

Are you sure that you aren't hiding this to try to protect yourself from some kind of implied embarrassment or failure? Like if you don't talk about it then it didn't really happen? Im not really sure.

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Hey Andrew, pretty sobering news about J3B. You were blessed to have 'known' him on here, he was a very special person.

I'm so glad you are continuing with your Halloween traditions, I think it would be a loss to your Villiage if you stopped doing it.

You've got to do what is right for you Andrew. IDK, maybe the NC thing has gone on for too long. MWD says to try things and monitor the results and I don't see any results from your NC since July? I know you are sometimes over enthusiastic and I know you said you have already invited W for a coffee (sorry I can't remember what happened or when that was) but maybe there is something else you can do to just start talking again....


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Andrew,

Didn't you recently have some interactions w/your wife? I vaguely remember it was about her belongings and locating a recipe. If that is the case, then it's best to sit quietly and allow her to come to you.

If you want to try something different, you could always take a photo of the Halloween decorations and send it to her with "Happy Halloween'. Very simple and nothing more. It would then be up to her to decide whether to respond on not. It certainly wouldn't be R or D talks in the mix.

Just my two cents and a cup of the witch's brew this evening.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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darknes - I'll see if I can explain this since it's something that I also struggle with since I am an open, honest person. I believe that one of my core characteristics is my honesty. Not that I feel a need to tell everyone everything but lieing is anathema to me. So describing how I "lie" is difficult. I do also value my privacy and feel no need to tell everyone what is going on in my life.

W (and her whole family) on the other hand has never had a problem telling lies generally avoiding the bigger "whoppers". I used to think that she would describe the world as she wished it to be, not as it was. While she does love to gossip about other people she hates being the subject of it. But - we're here to talk about me and not her although she does play into it.

I think the idea of "grand proclamation" grew a bit out of my intention and control in the words of commentators on my thread as well and I never bothered to address it until now and your thoughtful question. I'm not about to paint the side of W's work with a "cheating $#@ works here" or anything. I'm talking about the simple thing of changing my Facebook status and when people ask about W saying "oh - we're not together any more" and then saying "I'd rather not talk about it" when they press for details.

A couple of assumptions need to be made here as well - many of which perhaps don't apply to a WW or a WAW or even many people who are in a MLC although I "did" in fact believe this same way when I thought she might be in one of the other groups. They are:
- W is confused and depressed
- W has never said that she wants a D
- W has told a very limited group of people that she has left because she is unhappy and needs quiet and space to think
- Only a tiny number of people know about the A and W is (I believe from her prior reactions) terrified of anyone knowing about it.
- W is a very private person who resents anyone who intrudes into her life or space including me.
- W is (I believe) still wearing her wedding ring etc and I know of instances since she left where she referred to herself as AndrewP's wife
- I promised W that I would not be the first to take off my ring and that I still considered myself married to her (perhaps the most important point)

Let's take 2 scenarios where I've kept quiet and imagine what would happen if I had been "honest" but not "grandly honest".

1 - Let's say for example that I do change my Facebook marital status from Married to Separated. Suddenly the 40+ people that are on both of our friends list including many of her close family who are in the dark are reaching out to both W and I with expressions of sympathy and concern. W get's ticked off (An assumption on my part) and resents me for shoving all of these people into her space and crawls farther into her tunnel away from me. I on the other hand wouldn't have people crossing the street when they see me (some do) thinking I was an abusive husband that W had to escape. I don't know what story is out there so this is just speculation. I could openly be considering looking for a NG. I could set my affairs in order for a life without W. I could file for D if I chose.

2 - I go canoeing with friends and family many of whom are also friends of W but know nothing about what has happened. A cousin calls out "It's a shame that W doesn't like canoeing". What I did respond was that she would have enjoyed being out on the water but had to work (true). If instead I had said "Oh - we're not together any more" similar results to the above.

So - there are two goals of me holding this secret. One is to make sure that I don't create any noise that would interrupt W in her thinking - which I honestly do believe her to be doing. The other is to be true to the promise I gave her that I would not be the first to give up on our marriage. The argument could easily be made (and has been made) that she has indeed given up on it and that I'm just deluding myself. My only answer to that is that "I don't know for sure one way or the other".

eric gave me some great perspective on this which I try to use because my resentment of W was pretty big on this issue at one point. It's that I'm doing this to protect my family and my MR, not just W. That's helped.


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Originally Posted By: Coly23
You've got to do what is right for you Andrew. IDK, maybe the NC thing has gone on for too long. MWD says to try things and monitor the results and I don't see any results from your NC since July? I know you are sometimes over enthusiastic and I know you said you have already invited W for a coffee (sorry I can't remember what happened or when that was) but maybe there is something else you can do to just start talking again....
Coly23 - Thanks for the visit and the question.

I've never actually specifically invited W out for coffee. I did write to her that I would be happy to talk to her in whatever way she wanted and included "over coffee" as one of the options. We used to often spend time at the coffee shop just talking and visiting.

I know your wrist hurts from your rubber band as does mine from my virtual rubber band. I look at her like a delicate souffle - she needs to bake at her own time and her own space and any noise from me may cause her to crumble. Realistically I've been NC since shortly after I found this place in April in that we haven't had any sort of R talk and we largely avoided each other when we were under the same roof.

I'd put down my over enthusiasm with my two recent slip-ups groveling and begging rather than communication laugh I can keep this up - it does get easier over time even if like a poorly trained puppy I started barking at my little squirrel when she popped her head out innocently. I am better prepared now I hope.

I'm going to leave her in the oven for now - pushing her to talk to me would I believe have more negative impacts than positive and really doesn't make "much" difference in how I live day to day since I doubt she would come rushing back into my arms any time soon.

Originally Posted By: job
Andrew,

Didn't you recently have some interactions w/your wife? I vaguely remember it was about her belongings and locating a recipe. If that is the case, then it's best to sit quietly and allow her to come to you.

If you want to try something different, you could always take a photo of the Halloween decorations and send it to her with "Happy Halloween'. Very simple and nothing more. It would then be up to her to decide whether to respond on not. It certainly wouldn't be R or D talks in the mix.

Just my two cents and a cup of the witch's brew this evening.
job - Thank you yet again for being the voice of reason and calm. Yes there was some minimal interaction with W via text message which I messed up in a moderately dramatic fashion about a recipe. I hope that no significant damage was done even though she has gone quieter since then in her visible communications with the rest of the world.

On Halloween I usually post a bunch of pictures and such so W can see what's going on there. My thoughts around sending her candy was in the "gee I wish I could" vein - not an actual intention. D24 showed me a feature in SnapChat where you can save your story as a short video and post that to Facebook. I'm thinking that's what I'll do this year. W can follow along in SnapChat if she likes or see it in Facebook - again - if she wants to. I'm not going to rattle the squirrel tunnel about something this trivial - honest.

I hope you enjoy your witches brew - just make sure you filter out the eye of newt first smile


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I like Job's suggestion about the Halloween picture! Shows you are continuing to hubble and bubble at Halloween as normal!!


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Originally Posted By: AndrewP
1 - Let's say for example that I do change my Facebook marital status from Married to Separated. Suddenly the 40+ people that are on both of our friends list including many of her close family who are in the dark are reaching out to both W and I with expressions of sympathy and concern. W get's ticked off (An assumption on my part) and resents me for shoving all of these people into her space and crawls farther into her tunnel away from me. I on the other hand wouldn't have people crossing the street when they see me (some do) thinking I was an abusive husband that W had to escape. I don't know what story is out there so this is just speculation. I could openly be considering looking for a NG. I could set my affairs in order for a life without W. I could file for D if I chose.

Frankly, I think most of these scenarios arent terribly relevant. You say you are hurting with keeping this secret. Do you consider yourself married? If so, then leave your FB status as it is. Do you consider yourself separated? Then change it. Stop trying to control what other people do or dont do. You are certainly not 'shoving people' into W's space by saying that you are separated.

Originally Posted By: AndrewP
2 - I go canoeing with friends and family many of whom are also friends of W but know nothing about what has happened. A cousin calls out "It's a shame that W doesn't like canoeing". What I did respond was that she would have enjoyed being out on the water but had to work (true). If instead I had said "Oh - we're not together any more" similar results to the above.

Im not sure why you felt the need to cover for her. Saying "yes, she would have" is perfectly enough. Its strange to me that you feel you need to keep it a secret that she is living somewhere else. I dont think you need to broadcast it, but to lie and pretend like shes still living with you is a little strange and I can see why that would grow tiresome.

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