I bought the Bee Gee's CD back in the mid-nineties (the title of the CD is "Size Isn't Everything") and that was one of the more memorable songs. I liked that CD so much that I bought it as a birthday gift for several of the students who worked for me at the time (I worked for a university). Anyway, your username, as well as the circumstances that bring us together on this forum, reminded me of that song.
From what I see on the forums, it is pretty unusual for a WAS to start looking back to the marriage within months. I saw Wonka post once that nine months was at the shortest end of the timescale. And then we see situations. I think Crimson was one - where it has been two or more years before significant movement.
I think the key issue is that the LBS often works through a lot of stuff during that time - with no sign of hope from the WAS. Or perhaps the WAS completes the D process. All the time with little hope given. And after all of this, sometimes the WAS begins to regret and truly feel what has been lost. But I don't think that really happens until the loss is truly felt. And I don't think the loss is truly felt until the LBS is really moving on and appears to be closing the door. I don't think we can really pretend to close the door, I think it is when we genuinely get to that point, that things can change.
Of course some situations are 'unsalvageable' at BD and will never turn. And I think all will look that way - but some do later turn, we just can't predict which.
And if there is MLC as a factor, that extends timescales further. I'm not wanting to depress anyone - only highlight the need to really move forward with your own life. There is nothing to lose by doing that. It's a win-win, and may even draw the WAS back - but that's a bonus...xx
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Doodler, how old are you? You know, just in case my M doesn't work out. Lol. Or should I say "how deep is your love?"
Sotto, I completely agree with you. It is somewhat depressing tho, and as we see here in these threads, WS and WAS often do not return to the M. Perhaps they also stop posting at that point. And yes, it wasn't until I let go of my WH that he did his sharp 180 and wanted me back. That is why I am a huge proponent of letting them go, going dark, and assuming the end. Especially if there is an A involved; you need to take yourself out of plan B entirely. Don't ever let them think you are waiting or still available. They lose respect.
I have yet to see a wayward come back to the M after being put in the friend zone, but I would like to read examples of where this has worked. Is that more common with a walkaway? I think some folks confuse being a lighthouse with being too friendly--there is a big difference that gets misunderstood. I can tell you I didn't offer my WH friendship or family time and I realized soon on that he would take the cake if I gave it. No way. In the beginning I tried this for the kids sake, but I wasn't being true to my own feelings. It hurt. Then he got to have family time and run off to OW. NO!
One thing I want to tell people is that they don't have to be so hard on themselves. In my sitch I blew it ALL the time. For many months. I was actually a bit crazy. Mean. And emotional. My WH was scared of me and I didn't realize that I was self sabotaging because I wasn't a lighthouse and he saw no hope of me ever forgiving him. My behavior was keeping him away.
After several months I just burned out and gave up. I took my energy off of him and gave up hope. I started to picture my life without him. I stopped being mean and just let go. He didn't hold my previous behavior against me. He somehow blamed himself for hurting me and forgave it. So I guess my point is, we are only human and it's okay to make mistakes. You will change and so will they.
I do see a lot of posters that are too friendly in my opinion. I think the wayward loses respect for you when you do that. Be strong, have confidence, and don't slide yourself in the friend zone. It's quite simple, when someone dumps you, let them go and move on. Don't be friends with them if you don't want a friendship and to watch them date someone else. That svcks!
Ok, I'm done rambling.
Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
I do see a lot of posters that are too friendly in my opinion. I think the wayward loses respect for you when you do that. Be strong, have confidence, and don't slide yourself in the friend zone. It's quite simple, when someone dumps you, let them go and move on. Don't be friends with them if you don't want a friendship and to watch them date someone else. That svcks!
I'm probably in the camp that most would think I'm too friendly with my WAW. I was concerned about it too (still am frankly). I even asked my DB coach what she thought and she told me in my situation being friendly to my WAW was the correct thing to do. The last few years of our M we hardly ever spoke to one another and it was rarer when there were words of kindness in our voice; especially mine.
Both my IC and DB coach are in agreement (my IC doesn't know I had a DB coach) with the path I'm taking. My W and I may never get back together, but at least I know she won't regard me with dread or hurt when she thinks of me from now on. She seems happy and relaxed, which is good.
M 55 W 52 MR 32 T 34+ D29 BD May 8, 2016 - She moved out ILYBNILWY May 15 (Through email) No EA/PA August 23 - DB used against me in every way Divorce July 18, 2017 - Life is getting better every day
RDS, I am not too familiar with your sitch. We each must do what works for us tho. If one of your goals is to have a friendship with your W, even if the M doesn't work out, then perhaps you are heading in the right direction. In my sitch, I did not want a friendship, I wanted my M. If he was not willing to come back and commit to the M, then we would only have limited contact--about the children and finances. It would have been too painful for me to have friendship after what he had done to our family.
Admittedly, I am having trouble understanding people's sitches and the advice some are getting from their DB coaches. I keep reading sitches where the LBS is so focused on what the wayward is doing, every little sign that they are coming around, and trying very hard to speak their LL and nice their way back into the M. I feel that the LBS should respect themselves more, take focus off of the waywards, and not let them back into their lives (or bedroom) until they commit to the M. I just don't get it. I cannot see how these crumbs lead to reconciliation. That takes both partners willing to make personal changes, commit to the M, and then take steps to restore the M over time. I don't think the wayward will do that if they know they can have the LBS without doing the work.
In my opinion DB is about self love, self respect, and letting go of the person actively hurting you. Respect yourself and demand to be treated the way you deserve. Why do we hold on so tight? Because we too are hurting, our confidence is shattered, and we are scared. I see a lot of LBS focused on the wayward, and wanting to label them--MLC, depression, foggy, etc--and while that may be true, what difference does it make really? A person's reason or excuse for bad behavior may be a good explanation, but it is not a justification. It is still unacceptable. Whatever the explanation is, we still need to demand that we are treated the way we deserve. We should not allow them back into the M until they are able to do that. They need to work on themselves and make the changes first. This takes time and success cannot be measured in a few interactions.
I continue to be impressed by the posters that understand DB and apply it. I wish that I had done a better job from day one. I get it now and I know it's not too late for me. I hope for others that they can stop going in the same painful circles, find their worth, and teach the wayward how they deserve to be treated. If they don't treat you the way you deserve, point them to the door. Stop paying attention to them and waiting for them to change. Focus on you and detach. My H has been back and doing the hard work for over 1.5 years and I still put myself and my own needs before him, that should never change. YOU are always number one. If they can see that you get this, then they will learn how to treat you, not the other way around.
Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I don't really post here often now but your last post speaks so much of the truth. The only person who is really going to love is us, and if we don't do it our WAS/WWS can't do it for us. They are so much in a second state, and searching for someone to love them/ make them feel better about themselves (I call it chasing a dream) that if they don't do the work that all of us here LBS are doing unfortunately I feel it would be difficult to reconcile.
I just hijacked SH's thread (sorry SH) so I decided to put it here instead. Wondering if it's time for me to take a break from this site?
Originally Posted By: BluWave
(((SH)))
That was a nice bit on forgiveness. Thank you.
Admittedly, I struggle with forgiveness. It has been some time now that H has been back (1.5 years) and I have not fully forgiven him yet. Some days I don't even want to. I agree with the quote that it happens in steps. It is not simply a switch that is turned on or off. My process has been rather slow--3 steps forward and 2 steps back.
I don't know what I am so afraid of. I can understand why the sequence of events happened in the deterioration of our M and I can see my part as well. Where I get stuck is simply the betrayal. To be honest, I may come to a point where I move away from this M. That is what my instincts tell me. Not anytime soon, not in the next several years, but some day. I want to know that I stuck it out and tried my best. H is a changed man--a good man, H, and father--but I continue to long for the way I used to feel about him. My heart is forever damaged. How do you forgive someone fully for that?
Sometimes I think coming here and reading/posting prevents me from moving forward and finding more forgiveness. When I read the posters' struggles, pain, and desperation I can't help but want to protect them. I don't feel an emotional trigger, but more a reminder of what I went though and that I allowed this man to destroy me. It took me far too long to let go of him. and pick myself up. It's is taking many of you too long as well!
I wish more posters would stop pining for the person who is hurting them and let go. LET GO. It's your only hope for healing and their only hope for finding themselves and possibly a way back to the M. I feel that so many here are trying to be a lighthouse, a friend, and just waiting, when really they are a door mat with a lost soul.
Maybe I need to go on a DB diet. Maybe that is why folks in piecing go dark from this site. I can see so clearly where folks are going wrong but I feel so powerless. I really admire all of you that keep coming back and helping others for all these years.
Everyone deserves respect, love, and you are ALL valuable. But you cannot look to your M to find yourself or your happiness in life. It comes from within. Even if and when they do come back it will never, ever be the same. The M is dead. The innocence is gone. Only if you both have let go, grieved the end, and learned to love yourself, and only then, can you build something stronger together. I may or may not reach that point, but I am a work in progress.
Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
Blu, you must do what is right for you and your sitch. If it means stepping away from this forum in order to help you in rebuilding your M then you must do that.
However I for one will miss you terribly. I value your no nonsense advice and 2x4s and this is what I need to get myself thinking more clearly. You made me realise that family time was benefiting H more than me so I put a stop to it and I feel much better for it. With the help of you and Job I have managed to stay dark for nearly six weeks (except for birthday message) and I know it doesn't seem like it but I do feel better for it. I realised that contact was adding to my stress and anxiety which has started to effect me physically.
I am really sad to hear that you are struggling with forgiveness at the moment. I sometimes wonder if I would ever be able to forgive H even if we don't reconcile so I can see how hard this must be for you. You have suffered the ultimate betrayal and that can't be easy to leave in the past.
Blu, I really appreciate your honesty about your sitch and its this honesty that we need on this forum but if it means it's holding you back then you must do what's right for you and your family. (((Blu)))
Me - 47 H - 45 D-16 M - 6 years Separated - May 16
Don't leave me behind can't you see me I'm shining... (Years & Years - 'Shine')
Blu, I agree with Coly...you have to do what is right for you..I also have got a lot out of your posts!!! You are very to the point and it really makes me think and not stress out about every little interaction I have with my W. Just wanted to say hang in there!!
W:42 M:48 T:9 yrs M:1yr BD: Feb 2016 EA Confirmed: Feb 2016/PA July 2016 D: Feb 2017
