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7 weeks Post BD. Husband says he feels trapped in a complacent and loveless marriage. Love me but not in love with me. Wants to stay in home and for me to leave him alone. He comes and goes as he chooses and seems to be making an extra effort with the kids. Comes along to sports and acts amicable. At home alone he ignores me and drinks until bed. Repeatedly told me he does not want to work on marriage, he has nothing for me and he is really only interested in improving himself.

My question is. How do I detach when my husband stays in the house and tries to go about our normal life while ensuring that I know he is emotionally done with me.

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I am a mom of 4 kids ages 9,7, 5 and 5 (twins). After hubby lost weight, bought a new wardrobe, changed his look etc. I got the bomb drop (7 weeks ago). A total surprise to me, because i was very happy in our marriage. And I actually believe he was too. My bomb drop is I love you, but I want to be in love, I deserve more in my life and I feel empty with you. He says, the rat race with the kids seems like a chore/job to him because our relationship is nothing and he feels trapped in a marriage that he signed up for that he does not want. I spent the first few weeks begging and pleading which only infuriated him and made him stay away. He said he wants to work out and work on himself and doesn't have the energy or desire to give anything to me or anything else. He's been nothing but awful to live with since August.

In the past week I have taken advice from the board, stopped paying attention to him, doing my own thing, etc. and I am getting attention. He texts me, says I love you, hugs me, asks me to bear with him and not to shut him out, etc. Although he is doing these nice things, he is still very distant and I can tell he is very much in the MLC. I think he is nervous I am going to leave him, which I kind if indicated when I told him, I am now moving on.

When he hugs me - should I hug back? When he texts me I love you - should I say it back? When he comes to talk to me - how much should I pay attention and how much should I shut him out? Where is the balance in keeping the door open to fix this, vs. the tactic of keeping lots of distance.

I have asked him to see counseling, make changes in our relationship or life, just plain start having sex to rekindle things, go to dinner or do something once a week,etc. He says no no no no to all of it. Says he doesn't want to fake it and is happier doing things alone. Only since i told him I am moving on and stopped focusing my attention on him he has started doing a few little "connection things" like I mentioned above. When asked what he wants, he says, he wish he could just be left alone and stay her OR go away for awhile and come back. When asked what he envisions a perfect marriage 10 years in with 4 young kids he says "that's just the point, I don't know, and it 'effing [censored] that I am trapped for the rest of my life in this complacency".

I want more from my marriage too but I have never been unhappy raising my 4 kids and supporting my family. My husband has NEVER had restrictions from me. I do it all. He comes and goes as he chooses while I manage everything else. In his bomb drop he mentioned that I am like a cold robort or like his roomate Billy. He get's no sense of romance or fulfillment from me. When I tried to explain it's because I am left to do it all alone, he says "that may be true, but that is just the person you really are. You can't be the person I want". I have tried to be more needy, sweet, relaxed, etc and he calls me a "faker". In all honesty, I would DIE for him to take care of me, sweep me off the floor, help me or just ask how I am doing. So it is insane to me that he says this.

I need to add that he is definitely abusing alcohol for sometime now and in the last 6 weeks when I tried to "talk" to him there has been a little bit of physical abuse. That said, I knew I would prompt it, because I wouldn't stop following him around the house trying to talk with him. So I really intiated it. I am just saying this because if I am looking for real help here I figure I need to be honest.

So when he reaches out with hugs, affection, initiates conversations and texts - how much do I allow to show my true feelings of LOVE or do I just continue to be cold for awhile. And if the latter, how do I know when I can approach again?

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Kdvor I could have written your post, with only minor differences. I think you should get the book and really commit to divorce busting, and follow the information from the homework you would got from your first post at newcomers (and I think Job will get you the MLC version of it soon).

My advice is to follow all the rules, especially since you see your H is already responding. Mine hasn't responded yet to anything I did, but then again he is a special kind of "stubborn". My mistake? I though I was DBing but I still initiated or asked for R talks! I think that has been detrimental and pushed him away.

Do your homework, give him space, work on yourself. As you say you are not happy with the marriage either, so work on what you can change, yourself.

Best of luck x


"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"

“There is freedom waiting for you,
On the breezes of the sky,
And you ask "What if I fall?"
Oh but my darling,
What if you fly?”

-Erin Hanson





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Welcome to the MLC Forum. I'm sorry you are here, but we've got a lot of wonderful people posting here who will be happy to come by and visit w/you, i.e., support you, give advice and/or opinions, as well as just to talk about life in general. So, I'm going to paste Cadet's Welcome Posting here for you to begin some brand new homework. Read as much as you can about MLC and depression and if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask them.

Here's Cadet's Welcome Posting:
OK so that means MORE homework.

Welcome to this board.

The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy book by MWD,
Divorce Busting is also an excellent book.
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm

Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.

It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)

I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.

This POST is under reconstruction and we will be working on this as time goes by, this is the most current version.

I would start with the going dark link.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post50956

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2537289#Post2537289

Resources thread(last post only)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2592296#Post2592296

Things you should know as the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2701017#Post2701017

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Doormat Tactics
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1942444#Post1942444

Standing vs leaving
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1966340&page=1

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

Musings from AmyC
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2253741#Post2253741

MLC Signs
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2177869#Post2177869

The Final Stages Withdrawal to Acceptance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2074403&page=1

Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.

I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources.
You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.

Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!

Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.

I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.

Lets not worry about him/her. Lets work on you!
Start your homework assignments.
Something to DO while you are on moderation.
GAL.
Eat, sleep, exercise and take a deep breath.
In general take care of your self first.

Detach the single most important thing to DO.

Your H/W has given you a gift
THE GIFT OF TIME
use it wisely

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon

_________________________
Me-62, D30,S28


Here's the link to your thread over in Newcomers:

Newcomer to MLC - Touch and Go's I think - Help


Last edited by job; 10/15/16 07:30 AM. Reason: Added a link to another thread

Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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kdvor,

I have merged your two threads together. The reason for this is that we continue posting to one thread until we've reached the 100th posting/reply count. By sticking to one thread, it makes it easier for us to follow your situation and the progress you make along your journey. Also, it makes it easier for you to go back and review your journey too. You can also change the subject line within a thread at any time.

I am going to suggest that you read HaWho's threads as her husband is in MLC and living in the dorm room and continues to act out. She's got the patience of a saint.

Also, read all of the homework. Have you read the DB and DR books? If not, you need to get them or at least the DR book (it's the most recent one).


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Welcome to the MLC board,

now you have double the homework.

Lots to read and study,
Knowledge is Power.

Keep posting.


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Hi kdvor, I'm sorry to read your story - but glad you have found the forum as there are many wise people here who have trodden this path before.

In terms of interacting with your H, I would generally apply the 75% rule. If he is being enthusiastic about things, aim to respond positively (not coldly) and offer around 75 percent of that positivity back at him.

So, if he hugs you, offer him a hug back, but disengage after a brief cuddle and pleasantly get on with what you are doing. If he texts ILY, maybe just say thank you back.

It takes a while to get into the groove, but try and work on the basis of showing rather than telling. Don't tell him you are moving on, but show him you are moving forward.

Keep on reading and posting...there is lots to learn, but it sounds as though you are doing pretty well for seven weeks in...

smile


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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Hi kdvor, just a message to welcome you and offer support.
As you will find we all have spouses who feel unfulfilled, and this terrible path is their "solution" to it. Hopefully in time they will see it does nothing to ease their pain.
Keep the focus on you, and ensure you are able to cope and get some happiness out of life, this path is long and winding.
Best wishes


M 10, T 18
M: 36, W: 35, D: 8, S: 6
EA: Oct 12
ILYBINILWY: Jan 15
BD: Aug 15
Separated: Sep 15
Miss you: Jun 16
Aug 16: Dating (!)
Oct 16: Selfishness returns...
currently: disgusted
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thanks all for the response. I have read and read and read again. Really trying to change my thinking and actions.

Was wondering if anybody had this experience where the husband spends 7 weeks ignoring you, professing how you are a 0.0 in his life. And then, all of a sudden, without any conversation or anything happening, starts being nice. Saying I love you, buying small gifts, kissing on forehead or cheek, asking how I am.

What do I do with this?

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Yep, my xh left the first time in a fit of anger, was gone 3 days came back, went on an overseas holiday w/me and wanted to purchase me a more expensive engagement ring, all the while suffering from his crisis.

I would suggest that you follow his lead for now as he is just one confused man. Enjoy the gifts because he may very well stop doing so if you begin to question him. Accept him for who he is today, tomorrow may be another issue.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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This is a nightmare. I just don't understand.

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None of us understood what was happening to our spouses until we started reading up on MLC and depression and how it affects people. Each person is unique and so shall their crisis be unique.

Read as much as you can on MLC and also visit around this forum and read the threads. MLC is not a sprint, it's a marathon and the race won't be won today, tomorrow or even in the next year or so. It's a very long process for them because it has been building up for a long time.

The best advice I can give you is to take care of your finances, watch them closely, protect your assets, keep the focus on you and your family and remember...you have to take care of yourself first in order to help your family. You have no control over what he says or does, but you do have control over how you react to his behavior.

Continue to read and ask questions.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Hi Kdvor - I have a live-in MLCer who has not moved out (or grown up). I saw your question about how you detach with him in the home. I can try to give you some pointers based on what has worked and what has not worked for me.

First and MOST important do not ask any questions about where his head is at. The confusion is too great so the answer will only give you a quick snapshot of that moment. It's kind of like "Snapchat!" You see it and then poof it's gone and you have no proof you ever saw it. It's like a pinball machine on LSD in their minds. Give him loads of time and space. Don't ask any questions about where he's been/what he's doing/where he's going.

I would advise you to sort of mirror his behavior. If he's friendly and chatty, engage (tentatively, but STILL NO relationship talks). If he's distant, don't push for conversation; leave him alone. However, this is a chance for you to think very carefully about how to treat someone who is not at all himself. They DO remember the way they were treated. So, think carefully about that and try to be consistent in the way you do treat him (this one was very hard for me to do). I try to treat my husband like a house guest with some personal problems.

If you feel pressure or stress, try to leave and work that off on the sidelines. This is something I still do and I am two years post BD. In fact, find a way to get the stress out: yoga, walking, running, taking kids out, etc.

If you have teenagers, I find MLC to be very similar: tremendous moodiness, irrational behaviors, secrecy, regression of logic, poor decision making abilities, lots of anger/resentment, confusion, etc. It's remarkably similar. However, I also seen my h present as a little boy on a handful of occasions, too. So, I think he was probably stunted around age 6 or 7 (which makes sense based on his childhood) and I think he's growing up from there.

Read all you can so that you understand what is going on. Before this happened to me I never believed in MLC. Now, I live it and I can promise you it is very, very real.

Make sure you take care of your kids and yourself.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
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HaWho - thank you. I really feel like you "get" what I am going through. How do you not just throw in the towel? Kick him out? Threaten divorce? This seems like it has been going on and on forever. I don't want it to be this way. I love him and I don't want my marriage to end, but now after the BD I am stuck with a sham of a marriage, faking happiness with my husband in social situations (or not going to events at all). Where is the light at the end of the tunnel? Why do we stick and not run? Are we crazy?

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Kdvor - my gut tells me that if you have found this place/forum then you were looking for an explanation of what has happened to him. That's how I landed here. Yes, my marriage was not perfect. But my h was nuts.

I have written this before but on Easter 2015, my h texted me from his dorm room (it's what I call his recreation of our downstairs spare bedroom) and told me he was "done with me." 5 minutes later, he came out and cheerfully (no lie) asked me if I wanted a glass of wine! That night I started researching brain tumors. Days later I stumbled here and was SHOCKED to see my h has every symptom of MLC. Have you read about the 6 stages of MLC? Definitely search it, because you'll start to piece things together.

In MLC, their empathy chips are busted; they just don't seem to care about others or their feelings. It's weird until you get used to it.

Confession: I did once threaten divorce. My h, I think, is a particularly deviant MLCer in that he outright asked for an open marriage (he wanted to live a double life!!!). He wanted to find women who would look at him "meaningfully" but he told me he would only spend a few hours with her/them. He said he would not introduce our kids to her and so I asked how "meaningful" will this relationship be then? He had ZERO logic and couldn't explain this rationale. So I told him I knew EXACTLY what kind of women would be the side piece to a married man and that I would file for divorce to protect my kids' assets. He told me he was "trapped." I said, no, you can divorce. He never did.

So, if you've just been bombed, it has been going on forever and ever already for him. Job would tell you he probably entered "this" 18-24 months before he bombed you. Maybe a death, job change, etc. triggered him.

No, you are not crazy. Deep down, you know something is wrong with him and that's why you started researching. You will hear all sorts of nutty things now. He will contradict himself constantly and seem very confused. The wires in their brains are scrambled. Say nothing and he will talk. No matter what he says just listen and things will become clearer. Don't dispute his re-writing of things. My h told me we were never happy--which is very interesting since he proposed to me and we have albums of happy pictures.

The MLCer who stays home (and does not move) recreates his childhood home. The spouse becomes the authority figure against whom they begin to rebel. My h has actually said things verbatim that he said to his mom during tumultuous early years of his life. In his childhood h lived in a tiny, messy apartment. My h has not cleaned his room or bathroom since March. He complains about his bedroom just as he complained (bitterly) about his childhood apartment. He is using many of the same coping skills he used as a teen (closing his door and playing music). He has calmed down since his heydey of replay and spends 99% of his time locked in his dorm room. He told me he used to sit in his closet all day as a kid. In the last 2 years he has come upstairs (where my kids and I sleep) 5 times.

If your h's still inviting you to social events, my advice? Go and just mirror him, if it's not too painful. Try to be supportive. He is not himself right now and as hard as you have it? He has it waaaay worse. You'll begin to see that. Stay quiet and just listen.

As for the light at the end of the tunnel? You have to make it for yourself and your kids. Keep busy and make the home comfortable/as normal as possible.

You can do this. Post often.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
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I'm not sure but just to clarify, did you read DB or DR books?


M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

RECONCILED AND WISER
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Originally Posted By: HaWho
The MLCer who stays home (and does not move) recreates his childhood home. The spouse becomes the authority figure against whom they begin to rebel.

Oh my God, I'm seeing this is what's happening with my W. She comes & goes as she pleases, but she's been accusing me of trying to control her. I couldn't understand why. It's because I'm her dad now. [Long exhale.....]


M: 49, W: 45
T: 22 M: 15
S14, S11, S9
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W files: Oct '16
D final: June '18
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Sorry to hijack here Kdvor but Brubeck: I thought that when she tried to give you her babysitting money. I think her issues with money and wanting to be independent center there.

When my h spews at me, I know his history well enough to see he's talking to his mom. Your wife, I think, is in the same boat w/using you to talk/stand up to her authority figure. That anger needs to burn itself out.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
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Thanks all. Yes I read all the books and all the posts. I still have a question - How do you know if / and when he is coming out of MLC.

The past few nights he comes to my bed and lays next to me watching TV rather than sitting downstairs drinking and watching on his own. He calls me about kids bday gifts and even hugs and kisses me at times (few) and asks how I am. Left this morning and asked me to wrap sons bday gift. I am responding kindly but I don't reach out or approach at all which makes me feel like I am walking around COLD all of the time. Is there a point where is he approaching and I stay distant that he will feel like i really am a cold "robot"?

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Just a follow up questions: Should I be doing stuff for him when he asks like wrapping a gift he bought?

He mentioned last night we need to get our koi pond winterized. Usually, this means, I will call and take care of it. Should I do it?

We have a ton of social stuff coming up. Stuff we usually do together. I know he will go if I mention the events to him. Perhaps I don't mention anything at all.

Lastly, in 3 weeks we have a trip to Atlantis planned with our kids and family friends. 2 weeks ago he mentioned cancelling it and that he didn't want to go. I said, that's fine, I'll go by myself. Then he was taken back and said "What would you say why I didn't come". I said "I don't know, haven't thought about it. Maybe the truth, maybe not. Doesn't really matter". He seemed unsettled with that convo, but I stopped it.

Finally, one thing that seems to be getting to him is that I have been hanging out with a friend who is recently divorced "husband cheated with nanny". Assumming I should keep spending lots of visible time with her. Right? Should I try to capitalize on this.

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How do you know when he's out of MLC? When the talk and the actions match up. You might want to read a thread that I created many, many years ago on Reconnection. It should help answer your question of coming out of MLC. This is the hardest part of the journey for the LBS, because we become impatient and do not want to take things slowly. Here's the link:

TMAK - Explanation of Reconnection

If you usually wrap gifts for him, then sure. Maybe you might want him to clarify about the winterization of the koi pond issue. You might ask him if he's planning to take care of that. It doesn't hurt to put some responsibility back on to him.

I would continue as planned and go to Atlantis w/the kids and family friends. He's a big boy and if he doesn't want to go, then so be it...but don't allow his absence to ruin your fun.

If you enjoy spending time w/your friend, then do so...but don't do it just to annoy him. If you want to spend more time w/you do so.

If something is working do it, if it isn't, then stop doing it.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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I think the link that Job gave you says this but I will summarize, reconnection happens in reverse of separation.

In this order - Us, kids, pets, things for separation
the opposite order for reconnection
things, pets, kids and finally us.

And I agree with Job when actions and words match up.
It takes a long time and the best thing we can do is sit back and watch it all happen, listen, validate and not pursue.


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I read DB book Mostly focused on the MLC section.

Also listening to Brene Brown and reading her book. Interestingly she promotes vulnerability, which I am not sure applies here. If I am vulnerable I am a turn off right?

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"If I am vulnerable I am a turn off right?"

Only if you were not vulnerable before and he complained about it.

You have to read the whole of DB and not just read the one section. I'm sure there were things in your M that he complained about that also contributed to your situation. Be honest. Plus we will be helping you based on DB principles and it's going to be hard for you to understand what we're trying to say if you didn't read the book fully.


M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

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Hello kdvor,

I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.

The trip to Atlantis sounds fun and I'm sure that you and your kids are looking forward to it. Sounds like your H was stunned with your response and that you handled it very well.

H seems to have noticed a change in your behavior. Knowing what to do and what not to do at this point is crucial. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.

Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004


A Divorce Busting Coach can help you save your marriage, even when your spouse wants out.

Email virginia@divorcebusting.com or 303-444-7004 for more information or to get started right away.
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Cristy - can i call you tonight? I seriously am about to confront him and tell him to knock it off or get out. I can not live like this....

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Seriously, what's wrong with me sitting down with him tonight and saying. You have two choices. "Get help" or "Get out". I can't take it anymore!

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I am not an expert, but my H has had two MLC episodes, about 11 years apart. In his case, I felt strongly that pushing him to decide would result in him leaving.

With MLC, I really think patience gives your marriage the best chance of surviving.


Me: 44
H: 44
Kids: 20, 16, 16, and 10
Together/Married: 22 years
H announced he was emotionally detached and considering D: 4/4/16
H announced he is going to try to stay and reconnect: 5/1/16
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Thanks Rose. Are you happy you stayed?

Is anybody truly happy after this?

I am seriously considering bailing.

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To follow up.... i can't take him living like it is a hotel. He threw me a couple bones this week to get me somewhat nice but the fact of the matter is, he is doing nothing for me or this family. What i am doing but to facilitate this awful behavior?

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Help i am about to blow. I have a meeting with my counselor tomorrow and I keep telling myself to hold on until i speak with her. But not sure i can...

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Originally Posted By: kdvor
Thanks Rose. Are you happy you stayed?

Is anybody truly happy after this?

I am seriously considering bailing.


Absolutely, but H's MLCs have been mild compared to most I've seen here. Not in terms of his pain or confusion, but in terms of how much has spilled onto me or the kids.


Me: 44
H: 44
Kids: 20, 16, 16, and 10
Together/Married: 22 years
H announced he was emotionally detached and considering D: 4/4/16
H announced he is going to try to stay and reconnect: 5/1/16
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Originally Posted By: kdvor
Help i am about to blow. I have a meeting with my counselor tomorrow and I keep telling myself to hold on until i speak with her. But not sure i can...


What are your goals? Will blowing move you closer to or farther from your goals?

Can you blow by writing it all in a journal and then tearing it up? I did that more than once.


Me: 44
H: 44
Kids: 20, 16, 16, and 10
Together/Married: 22 years
H announced he was emotionally detached and considering D: 4/4/16
H announced he is going to try to stay and reconnect: 5/1/16
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"Seriously, what's wrong with me sitting down with him tonight and saying. You have two choices. "Get help" or "Get out". I can't take it anymore!"

That's why you have to read ALL of DB. I get that you're frustrated, but I can tell you that I don't recall a situation on here where giving the WAS an ultimatum resulted in them staying.

You concentrate so much on your H and what you perceive is an MLC but you've never posted about your relationship with him. It sounded like maybe you treated him like a child because you kept "taking care" of things. Maybe there were times that he wanted to step up but you decided to do it yourself thinking that he would do it wrong.

Think back. What were the things that the two of you would argue about? What problems in the M were caused by you in your opinion or maybe miscommunicated? It sounds like you're the type who has to be in control and always have a plan. You are going to need to have patience if your end goal is to save your M.


M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

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Mr. Bond is absolutely correct. If you give him an ultimatum of either get help or get out, he's going to choose get out. You are basically opening the door and giving him all the justification he needs to leave. If he's in crisis, he's not going to see that he needs help. Oh, he may go to a therapist for a while, but he will only hear what he wants to hear and yes, he will come back and say that he went just to shut you up and that there is not one thing wrong w/him.

I would recommend that you read HaWho's threads. Her h has been in crisis for a bit and still lives at home. She's come a long way and when I say that she's earned her wings and halo, I mean it. Her h is acting just like a teenager, but she's learned how to detach and yes, even find some humor in what he's saying and doing, but she still has days of frustration.

One of things that many of us don't realize is that we tend to take over doing things for our spouses and not allowing them do them themselves. We basically become authority figures to them, i.e., mother and father figures. If this is the case, then start stepping back and stop trying to fix him because you can't...you aren't his mother. If he makes mistakes, then leave it to him to figure it out. If he leaves his clothes in the floor, leave them there. He's a grown man and should be picking up after himself. There are things that you can do in a subtle way that will give him the independence and freedom he is craving. I'll say it again, you didn't break him, therefore you can't fix him.

It's a new day...breathe! This is not a sprint, but a marathon so dig deeper for patience and come here to vent.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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you are right. i told him I have been to see a lawyer and I am done with this [censored]. He needs to fix it or get out. He chugged a beer and went to bed and said, i need time to sort this out in my head but I am not ready to work on it with you. He also repeatedly told me that when I use the word marriage it infuriates him, makes him feel like he is trapped. screamed at me to stop using the word marriage. how ridiculous.

now i have accomplished nothing but making myself more sad and frustrated.

I want to go full dark on him. How do i do that while he is here. I feel he should no longer be allowed to pop and in out of our life at will. if he calls me, i will not answer. If he texts, then no reply. Right?

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Originally Posted By: kdvor
you are right. i told him I have been to see a lawyer and I am done with this [censored]. He needs to fix it or get out. He chugged a beer and went to bed and said, i need time to sort this out in my head but I am not ready to work on it with you. He also repeatedly told me that when I use the word marriage it infuriates him, makes him feel like he is trapped. screamed at me to stop using the word marriage. how ridiculous.

now i have accomplished nothing but making myself more sad and frustrated.

I want to go full dark on him. How do i do that while he is here. I feel he should no longer be allowed to pop and in out of our life at will. if he calls me, i will not answer. If he texts, then no reply. Right?


Why do you want to go dark? What do you hope to accomplish?


Me: 44
H: 44
Kids: 20, 16, 16, and 10
Together/Married: 22 years
H announced he was emotionally detached and considering D: 4/4/16
H announced he is going to try to stay and reconnect: 5/1/16
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So, he is giving you some useful (if painful) clues here. He feels trapped and cornered when you have these kinds of convos. This is why early advice is to back off from having R convos, which won't go well. Cornered people tend to push back with anger or actions - moving further away from the M and you.

So - first action is to not initiate these kinds of conversations and purely validate (and avoid them if possible) should he initiate one.

As for dark - that doesn't really sound possible in your circumstances. Dark is when you don't even respond when he contacts or talks to you. I don't think that is realistic, or would help your situation. However, you may want to work on dim. Now, dim doesn't mean cold, it means pleasant, minimal, busy with other things.

From your post, it sounds as though you want to make a dramatic change to your communications. In general, it's never a great plan to make decisions like that when your emotions are running high. I think it's best to work in more subtle ways - gentle withdrawal and dimness - having your own plans, being busy with things. Essentially, you 'back burner' him whilst you get on with your own stuff. However if he approaches you, you are pleasant - albeit brief.

Does that help at all?

smile


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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You can't go completely dark on him while he's living under the same roof w/you. However, you can treat him as if he were a roommate and if he wants to talk, then listen and talk. If he doesn't want to talk, then leave him alone. Follow his lead. No more talks about seeking help or getting out. No more talks about being done and certainly no more talks about seeing a lawyer (especially this one, as it could come across as a threat to him).

Re-read the detachment thread and like I have suggested, read HaWho's threads. She's mastered the art of detachment and yes, she's learned how to deal w/her h while living under one roof. This is his problem to fix. However, you can make your home a safe spot for him, by giving him space.

You can reason w/someone who isn't willing to listen or is operating on pure emotions. If you get frustrated or angry, take a walk. If you need to speak to him, do so in a calm, level tone and look him n the eye.

Keep the focus on you and dig deeper for patience as you are dealing w/a teenager right now. No, the man you knew is gone for a while and in his place, is his younger self.

Here's the link to the Detachment thread:

Detachment

Detachment is for you so that you can find you footing once again and not to always react to what he says or does.

Last edited by job; 10/19/16 05:17 AM. Reason: Added a link to another thread

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I agree with Sotto. Going dark with kids and your h in the house would be tense for all involved, including you.

As hard as this sounds, my advice is that you slow yourself (and your mind) down. There is no reason for you to have to rush into any decisions right this second. Your emotions are running high (and I understand this because I was right there, too) and that is never a good time to start making big decisions.

When you start to feel the need to do something/say something, find an alternative! I am not sure how old your kids are? Can you let us know? If they are still young, go clean out closets, your garage, etc. Exhaust yourself but don't go talking to him because emotions are running high for both of you.

If your kids can stay home alone, get yourself out of the house often! I began hiking. It reduced my stress and quieted my mind. Go run, walk, etc.

Privately read all you can about MLC. Slow down. No decisions must be made this very second.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
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My kids are 9, 7, 5 and 5. I have been dim, only speaking when spoken to, not asking him where he is when he is coming. For the past 3 weeks he has left the country, gone to a Notre Dame football game for the weekend and and all day Jets game drinking fest. I kindly and happily supported it all. He inserts himself into our life when he feels like it and checks out just the same. I run everyday and had been spending time up in my room on the computer etc. At first it seemed to be working, but yesterday, after spending 4 hours at the gym with no regard for our family schedule I felt I needed to talk and level set. That turned into the brutal conversation we had last night.

His biggest complaint is that everybody outside the home gives him lots of attention, thinks he is great, validates him etc. But he feels he got nothing inside the home. IMO, that is because he disconnected (I allowed it) from all responsibility years ago. So what he says was true. I ran the entire ship and if he showed up it was a bonus. Yes, sometimes I complained and we joked together that he was "worthless" around the house - but I thought it was just the way we were.

I felt horrible this morning about how angry I came off and the threats of divorce. So I sent him this text this morning to which he hasn't responded. I feel like regardless of no response - it can set a turning point for me and my behavior. What do you think?

"I am confused and heart broken. I don't want to show anger when I am just sad. I love you dearly. And always have. OUr relationship was strong and based on a great friendship, love, a desire to grow together and same values. I know in my hear the disconnection and discontentment you feel is something way bigger than us. I want to help you beat this. I will stand by you if you let me. Please can we get some help from someone who can point us in the right direction?'

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Also - Can somebody explain, why is it ok to let him live in the house, come and go as he chooses, provide no assistance with kids, daily living, etc. while sits on the couch drinking and lets me manage the entire life around him.

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Originally Posted By: kdvor
Also - Can somebody explain, why is it ok to let him live in the house, come and go as he chooses, provide no assistance with kids, daily living, etc. while sits on the couch drinking and lets me manage the entire life around him.

Here is a thread of an LBS that has a live in MLC'er

Trustingfaith

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...710#Post1779710

I can tell you he still lives in the basement and we are getting on towards 8 years.
There are signs that he might be coming out of it.

Hope that helps.


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Originally Posted By: kdvor
My kids are 9, 7, 5 and 5. I have been dim, only speaking when spoken to, not asking him where he is when he is coming. For the past 3 weeks he has left the country, gone to a Notre Dame football game for the weekend and and all day Jets game drinking fest. I kindly and happily supported it all. He inserts himself into our life when he feels like it and checks out just the same. I run everyday and had been spending time up in my room on the computer etc. At first it seemed to be working, but yesterday, after spending 4 hours at the gym with no regard for our family schedule I felt I needed to talk and level set. That turned into the brutal conversation we had last night.

His biggest complaint is that everybody outside the home gives him lots of attention, thinks he is great, validates him etc. But he feels he got nothing inside the home. IMO, that is because he disconnected (I allowed it) from all responsibility years ago. So what he says was true. I ran the entire ship and if he showed up it was a bonus. Yes, sometimes I complained and we joked together that he was "worthless" around the house - but I thought it was just the way we were.

I felt horrible this morning about how angry I came off and the threats of divorce. So I sent him this text this morning to which he hasn't responded. I feel like regardless of no response - it can set a turning point for me and my behavior. What do you think?

"I am confused and heart broken. I don't want to show anger when I am just sad. I love you dearly. And always have. OUr relationship was strong and based on a great friendship, love, a desire to grow together and same values. I know in my hear the disconnection and discontentment you feel is something way bigger than us. I want to help you beat this. I will stand by you if you let me. Please can we get some help from someone who can point us in the right direction?'


I think your text comes across as trying to control how he feels and thinks, and denies how he is interpreting his own experience,

When someone is feeling bad about their marriage, being told their marriage was strong makes them feel unheard and dismissed.

It sounds to me like your H has given you a clear indication of a big issue in your marriage, and you have flipped it around so it is all his fault and not your fault.

I understand that it feels like his issues are bigger than yours, but you have the best chance of saving your marriage if you change your behavior first, even if you feel like he doesn't deserve to have you change first.

I would get counseling for yourself to work on your anger, and then I would be eagle-eyed in a search for honest words of affirmation and praise you can give your husband. He doesn't help at home, but does he provide financial support for the family? Is he he sold financial provider?


Me: 44
H: 44
Kids: 20, 16, 16, and 10
Together/Married: 22 years
H announced he was emotionally detached and considering D: 4/4/16
H announced he is going to try to stay and reconnect: 5/1/16
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I understand what you saying Rose, but my text was meant to be an apology for being angry and say "i love you and I will stand by you through this". I felt if I showed him that what he saying is really a made up story in his head then he could maybe dig deep and find what is really going on with him.

Is there any benefit to reaching out to one of his friends to talk some sense in him?

I am reading and reading and reading about detachment. Understanding it is easy. but actually doing it seems impossible. Especially when he is in my face constantly.

I am just so sad and frustrated. He hasn't responded to my text at all?

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With my husband, bringing in friends would have backfired. Big time.

Likewise, trying to convince him that he is believing a made-up story would not have worked.

I know detachment is hard. My counselor helped me a lot with this. Also, getting out of the house (even with kids) helped.

On another thread, someone suggested to think of it as attaching to your own life, rather than detaching from his. That might help.


Me: 44
H: 44
Kids: 20, 16, 16, and 10
Together/Married: 22 years
H announced he was emotionally detached and considering D: 4/4/16
H announced he is going to try to stay and reconnect: 5/1/16
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Thank you. Another question. Can somebody give me some insight on what stage you think he is in?

He told me he started feeling like this in Spring
Bomb Dropped in August
Spent the last 3 months telling me he wants to be left alone and doing what he wants while living in the house.
Last 2 weeks had shown signs of kindness, some random kisses on cheecks, hugs, i love you, how was your day, etc. souvenier from trips. Thought things were getting better until yesterday when he. . seemed very withdrawn, went to gym for 4 hours, asked me to wrap a bday gift for son, sat on couch and drank and watched while being almost in a coma state. No talking to me.

Is he in Replay, Depression, Withdrawal? I am not sure. . .

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The bomb is dropped in replay generally. Likely, he'll be a good way off any of the later stages just now...

I wouldn't try and get anyone to talk some sense into him...that's not going to work. The best thing you can do is start to pull back. If you read back, that's the theme of recent posts to you. You want to do something - anything - I understand and have been there. But truly, the best you can do for now is gently draw back, give him some space and start to work on you.

Have you posted about areas you would like to work on and personal goals?


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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Thanks Sotto. Yes, I guess it is replay. Guess when he was showing my attention and nice to me that perhaps he was coming out of it.

My goals:

I want my old husband back.
I want a real, loving and happy family.
I want to be loved and cared for.
I want to be happy despite his actions (but I just don't know how).
I want him to believe that I love him and our marriage is worth fighting for.

After initiating the R talk and sending that text (which he has not responded to) - how does it make sense for me to now "go dim". Aren't I sending contradictory messages?

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Cadet - I read trusting faith's link you provided me about the life in MLC'er. I am just wondering how it turned out for her.

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I can NOT stop crying to today. I am just so sad.

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I am just so mad at myself. i feel completely out of control. I was following the rules until last night. Now that I prompted the R talk with the text i sent today, it seems I just pushed him totally away. He is not communicating with me at all.

He did say this morning, he was gonna try to work on it and work on himself. when i look at him he looks tired, exhausted, as if his soul is gone.

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Originally Posted By: kdvor
Thanks Sotto. Yes, I guess it is replay. Guess when he was showing my attention and nice to me that perhaps he was coming out of it.

My goals:

I want my old husband back.
I want a real, loving and happy family.
I want to be loved and cared for.
I want to be happy despite his actions (but I just don't know how).
I want him to believe that I love him and our marriage is worth fighting for.

After initiating the R talk and sending that text (which he has not responded to) - how does it make sense for me to now "go dim". Aren't I sending contradictory messages?


Goals are tough for me to wrap my head around, but almost all the ones you've listed are desires, not goals.

The one exception is "I want to be happy despite his actions"--that's a goal, but you need to get more specific. What does being happy look like to you?

I encourage you to come up with more goals--things you can make happen regardless of what H does.


Me: 44
H: 44
Kids: 20, 16, 16, and 10
Together/Married: 22 years
H announced he was emotionally detached and considering D: 4/4/16
H announced he is going to try to stay and reconnect: 5/1/16
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I guess I wish I wouldn't let his actions impact me. But they do. I am so deeply hurt and sad. My happiness is my family. This is what I live for. This is what I am proud of. Going for a run, getting my hair done, going out with friends are all fine and can be a distraction - but they are the source of true inner happiness. I don't know how to find it when my family is falling apart. I just sit here and cry and cry and cry.

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I seriously can not believe i have not gotten a response to the text i sent him. I got no communication. And he will show up at some point tonight to participate in our sons 9th birthday. Seriously, how I am supposed to act?

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I am sorry you are feeling so sad and like your family is falling apart.

But you still have your family. You have your beautiful kids who love their mom. They are your family. Keeping living for them and live for you too.

You probably won't get a response to the text. Something to evaluate. Did you send it to get a response, or did you send it because you were really sorry?

How did you expect him to respond?

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I know I am posting alot today. But I really feel like I am coming Unraveled. Let me try something positive. Can I have some help with a 180 here?

August: BD - Hubby is unfilled. Loves me, finds me attractive, loves family but feels empty inside. Wants attention and validation. Feels he got it everywhere and from everyone but from me. In our pre BD life, he had full freedom to come and go however and whenever he choose. He took no active role in our family, kids, runnning of the household and openly admitted and joked about it. I did everything, happily (most of the time). But felt resentful and a bit onely.

BD - 6 weeks - Begged an pleaded, tried to show him attention, initiate sex, etc. Got nothing but anger, resentment and very mean mean comments and actual including some physical abuse which he says was because I refused to stay out of his face.

Last 2 weeks - I really tried to detach, tried to move on , do other things and not ask him about what he is doing. Until last night when I initiated the R talk. Ended up in me trying to convince him to "work on it" which he wouldn't commit to. He only committed to "working on himself". Then I said I won't live like this and mentioned I have seen an attorney.

This morning - Sent text (see above thread).

Now what does my 180 look like? What things should I do? What things shouldn't I do? If I ignore him, aren't I just reinforcing his original "issue" with me? How do I do a 180 without impacting the kids?

Help!

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I am very sorry you are having a difficult time of it today.

First, no more relationship talks!!!! If he brings it up, you can respond or say that you need time to think about whatever he wants to discuss...but you...don't initiate them!

Second if you sent the email this morning to apologize, then let it be. It looks like you are pursuing him and putting pressure on him even if that is not your intent.

You contact him only if it's an emergency or something to do w/the kids...nothing more. The more you push for answers and commitment, the more he's going to pull away.

If he doesn't respond to your email...go on about your business. Trust me, when he's ready to talk to you, he will.
Put your focus on you and your children for now. Your kids need you now more than ever.

A 180 for you would be to leave him alone and treat him a "just a friend". You can't control him, you can't tell him what to do and you certainly can't snap him out of his crisis. The only person that you can control is YOU!

Go back and re-read what the posters have posted to you. The more you push, the more he's going to pull away...is that what you want? Be the lighthouse in the storm to him. Be someone he will want to talk to and spend time with. Be the person you were when he first met you.


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You know when a child gets free run, but actually really craves authority and attention and some structure?

I'm going to imagine maybe that's the way he was acting when he had free range and you cared for the kids. perhaps he wanted to be included, given responsibilities with the children, and he was attention seeking. This wasn't for you to know. There was obviously poor communication on both ends. He probably didn't feel important from what you described. No fault of your own, he should have been proactive, but maybe just didn't know how.

So for a 180 there is no R talk or convincing, but you ask for him to do stuff around the house or for the kids. Stuff that is important and needs to get done. Don't argue if he says no, and be sure to validate if he does it.

Sounds like he wanted to be an active part of the family, but didn't know how.

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Thanks Job. So here's where it get's hard/confusing for me. We have weekend stuff with the kids. I get everything ready, and the kids off to where they need to go and he kind of just jumps in and acts as if nothing is wrong. Should I tell him to take a different car, sit somewhere else? Completely ignore him?

What if he does reach out and text or initiate small talk? Should I not respond unless it is important?

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Thanks Ginger. I think you hit the nail on the head with the "what happened question".

So the 180 is ME asking him to engage and do stuff for the house and the family. How do I ensure this doesn't look like persuing?

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How do you explain your missing husband from social events to friends and neighbors? For me to GAL and go on with my social life without him will be a HUGE change. We were "THE PERFECT COUPLE" in many peoples eyes. Yes, I can say he is sick the first time, working the next time, but eventually my lies will catch up with me.

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Kdvor I'm sorry you are having such a bad day. Unfortunately there is no other way through this, and if you chose to stick with DBing you will have some bad days, when it will all seem like it's falling apart and you are wasting your energy. However, what is the alternative? Walking away? Asking him to leave? Will that not result in the break up of your family? It is a roller coaster, and you will go through different emotions. I think you are still at the beginning, so don't be too harsh on yourself if you need to cry. At the end of the day you are mourning for the future you had planned and dreamt off. However cry in private, don't let him see you, and don't burden your kids with your emotions. I know it is hard, I still have days when I cannot stop crying, and I hate myself for it. But does that help?

As Rose, Job and Ginger suggested, stop all R talks immediately. There is no letter you can write, no message you can send, no speech you can prepare that will get through to him. All you achieve is open yourself to more pain. My H does not reply to "needy"messages either, so I have finally learnt my lesson. I aim to not initiate any R talks, and know by experience that if I do will just push him a little further away.

By the way, my H spends the weekends home with us (visiting the kids mainly) so I understand how hard it is. I do have the luxury of a "break" from his insanity on weekdays. But being under the same roof with a person that looks at you like you have wronged him in every way possible is hard..

Best of luck, keep posting and journaling, just remember, no R talks!!!


"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"

“There is freedom waiting for you,
On the breezes of the sky,
And you ask "What if I fall?"
Oh but my darling,
What if you fly?”

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That's the 180. But you need to not make it about you.

Start very small. Only ask for him to do for the kids, not you. Do your kids do sports/activities? Does he attend? Maybe ask him to see a game or to take them to practice. Think of what he wasn't involved in. See what you can involve him in that has to do with the kids or around the house that doesn't look pursuing.

Honestly, his life post bomb drop doesn't sound any different than his life post BD. He's always had the freedom.

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If he's interested in doing things w/the kids, then let him. If there are things that the kids need help then mention it to him. Don't tell him...mention it or suggest it. Give him the option of saying yes or no. Telling him to do stuff or pointing out what he's not doing sounds like a mother. You aren't his mother.

You are going to see all types of things that your h does. One minute he could be angry and the next act as if nothing is wrong. They are emotional during the crisis. They are operating on emotions and when the emotions are all over the place, so shall they.

If you want him to participate in activities, then treat him as a friend. I would not suggest he take a different car or sit some place else. Ignore him? Nope, I would continue as you always would...but treat him as a friend. Your expectations are very high for your h right now and you need to knock them down to a 2 or 1 because you are getting angry, frustrated and upset expecting him to respond to you as he would have pre-crisis.

If he initiates contact and/or reached out, then listen to what he has to say and follow his lead. Just stay away from relationship talks, lawyers, him getting help and/or getting out. Keep your conversations civil and on safe topics.

Did you read HaWho's threads? If you didn't...you really should because her threads have a wealth of information from when she first arrived her and still going on now. She's coming a long way and she asked many of the same questions that you have asked over the last year or so.

I want you to think about something...how would you behave around a friend? Would you pursue them? Would you give them ultimatums? What would your expectations be of a distant friend?

I want to know what you are doing for yourself these days. I know it's difficult not to focus on him, but what are you doing in the way of being there for your kids? They can sense stress/tension in the home.

Keep the focus on you and what you can control.


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The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Thanks Job. My whole life is my kids. I spend every minute with them, driving them places, caring for them, playing etc. I feel that when I detach/ignore my husband, I am not myself with the kids. I am not my happy go lucky self. I tend to get frustrated and or distracted easily.

I have been reading Hawho's theads. Which have been very helpful. I just can't believe she is STILL going through this. . . .

If it was a friend, I wouldn't do anything of those things. A distant friend, the same. But a friend doesn't live in your house, right?

As I GAL, without my husband. How do I explain he is repeatedly missing from my life.

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"So the 180 is ME asking him to engage and do stuff for the house and the family. How do I ensure this doesn't look like persuing?"

That's not what the 180 is. This is why you need to read DB. You are spinning in all directions asking us to answer specific questions which are basically all of our opinions and it makes you spin even more out of control. The 180 is when you change behaviors or actions that pushed your spouse away in the first place and change them. For example, if your spouse said you didn't clean the house, start cleaning. When it comes to 180s like attention, you don't go overboard. You've already seen what happens when you do that.

I can tell you that even if you were joking about him being "worthless" around the house, no man or woman wants to hear that. It makes you not a safe place and have them not even want to try contributing, therefore perpetuating your situation in an endless circle. Think back to when you were first married, and dating, I'm sure he did contribute. Are you the type that likes things done your way? Do you always have to have a plan of action when you do things? Have you been critical of him (even jokingly) when he tries to do something to help? If so, then stop that. That's the 180.

"Is he in Replay, Depression, Withdrawal? I am not sure. . ."

It's obvious he's depressed but you can't keep trying to control the situation. You're trying to anticipate what he's going to do and why he does it. If you don't stop, you're going to do something rash again.


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Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
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"As I GAL, without my husband. How do I explain he is repeatedly missing from my life."

That's your paranoia talking. Just say he wasn't available if anyone asks.


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Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

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Ok. Just to clarify. I did read Divorce Busting. But I really feel confused about the whole thing which is why I sending so many questions.

I am not a type A control freak. I am more Type B. I happily kept "the ship" running while he "played". Sometimes I would be frustrated and resentful, but for the most part I was happy for my life. I definitely didn't show him lots of mushy love and as he says didn't act sexy. But I was exhausted and probably a little resentful that he didn't appreciate all I did deep inside.

He doesn't EVER do anything to help. So I never criticize. Honest.

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"But I really feel confused about the whole thing which is why I sending so many questions."

What are you confused about?

"I am not a type A control freak. I am more Type B. I happily kept "the ship" running while he "played"."

Is that how it was since day one? Really think about this. I notice in many of your posts, you respond really fast. Sometimes you just need to pause a moment, take a deep breath and really look at your sitch under a microscope. What would someone from the outside see?

"Sometimes I would be frustrated and resentful,"

What would you do to show this?

"I definitely didn't show him lots of mushy love and as he says didn't act sexy."

You say "mushy" love like that's a bad thing. Did you do that before you got M?

"But I was exhausted and probably a little resentful that he didn't appreciate all I did deep inside."

Okay, but can you see how that just perpetuates a never-ending cycle? Men equate love with physical while women equate it with emotional.

"He doesn't EVER do anything to help. So I never criticize. Honest."

Okay that's an absolute answer. There is no such thing as absolutes. There must be some small way that he helps. Even if it's picking up groceries or whatever. It's like when someone tells you that you NEVER do something. I'm sure that if he was like that when you first met you wouldn't have married him. Also, you say that you're resentful for him being that way. Really think about your actions during that period. Even a little joke or a look the wrong way or something said under your breath or a sigh is a criticism.

It seems like to you, helping is a BIG deal. If he's as useless as you keep saying he is, why would you stay with him? Why would he stay with you?


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Originally Posted By: kdvor
Cadet - I read trusting faith's link you provided me about the life in MLC'er. I am just wondering how it turned out for her.


She does have more threads here click on her name,
post, topics and you will get the list.

I am friends with her and
what I said is pretty much so.

I wrote to you:

Originally Posted By: Cadet
Originally Posted By: kdvor
Also - Can somebody explain, why is it ok to let him live in the house, come and go as he chooses, provide no assistance with kids, daily living, etc. while sits on the couch drinking and lets me manage the entire life around him.

Here is a thread of an LBS that has a live in MLC'er

Trustingfaith

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...710#Post1779710

I can tell you he still lives in the basement and we are getting on towards 8 years.
There are signs that he might be coming out of it.

Hope that helps.


The signs that he is coming out are that he has reconnected with the house, dog, and sometimes the kids.
He is starting to act like a father again,
and take some responsibilities for the house.

He still lives in the basement and there is still more crisis to go.
So it is not yet decided, IMHO.


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Originally Posted By: kdvor
Ok. Just to clarify. I did read Divorce Busting. But I really feel confused about the whole thing which is why I sending so many questions.

I am not a type A control freak. I am more Type B. I happily kept "the ship" running while he "played". Sometimes I would be frustrated and resentful, but for the most part I was happy for my life. I definitely didn't show him lots of mushy love and as he says didn't act sexy. But I was exhausted and probably a little resentful that he didn't appreciate all I did deep inside.

He doesn't EVER do anything to help. So I never criticize. Honest.


This doesn't sound like a happy or healthy marriage, but you seem resistant to any introspection about what you can do to improve things by changing yourself, not by changing him.

You seem very dismissive of his needs.

Even your proposed 180 is focused on getting him to do more, not on changing yourself.

You really need to focus on you.

Am I saying this is all your fault? Am I saying it is fair? Not At All.

But I do think that it's easier for our spouses to change if we change first. Especially if they want out. Especially if they are in an MLC.


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Here's a thread on 180's. Also, there is a forum on this Board that is titled "Do the 180 Workshop". The link below may give you some good ideas of what works and how to go about them.


The link:

180's that work


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
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Kdvor - while I am STILL here, I am NOT still "here" in the same way. What do I mean? Well, I regained my sanity in all this; aka I detached from what is HIS crisis. Yes, our m was not perfect. Yes, I made mistakes. But it's not like I slept with every man in his family.

So, no one can tell you exactly how to survive this. BUT, it does start with slowing your mind down and reading a lot about detachment and MLC. Because if you believe this is MLC, then you come to understand there is no easy fix to HIS crisis. A trip to Victoria's Secret will not do the trick. (Trust me because I tried pretzeling myself to make my h happy until I realized NOTHING was "working" because he was unhappy internally.)

While you can't fix this, certain things DO make it worse: trying to reason with him, talking about the marriage, talking about counseling, begging him, pleading with him, etc. Stay away from these.

So, what can you do? Look at yourself. Slow down and really assess. Go back a re-read what all these people posted. Think about your h's complaints and try to determine if any of them have a real basis.

As for how to treat him? This is what I was explaining earlier. Slow down and be consistent in the way you treat him. (I pictured my kids being in the same room with us and acting accordingly.) Don't ignore him, be cold, angry, hostile, ride in separate cars, try to punish him for this, etc.

I know you are mad! One of the things to work on is getting that anger out in a constructive fashion: cleaning out closets, exercising, taking the kids out, seeing friends, etc.

Stay away from any relationship talks!!!


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
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I apologize if I represented 180's the wrong way.

It's a hard balance, because it seems pretty clear he felt disconnected from the family as if he really didn't have a role. Giving him a chance to have a role, make decisions, I believe is a 180. doing it without pursuing or making it about you is tricky, but it can be done. I agree 100% with Job that you shouldn't TELL him to do anything, but just give him the opportunity. and stay away from reasoning, begging, and R talks, absolutely.

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Hi Kdvor - so you mentioned on my thread that your h is selfish. Many of us here speculate that perhaps the person prone to MLC is on the selfish side and has poor coping skills while the LBS is a fixer/avoider and perhaps, in some cases, codependent. My h, too, was on the selfish side and I am for sure a fixer.

Like you, I did it all when my kids were young. I tried to get my h to help but he became unreasonable. I think he was on the selfish side + he had slipped into MLC and had regressed. Like you I grew resentful because he wouldn't meet me half way. It was a source of friction for me. So I get what you mean there.

You mentioned that your h is drinking. Has he always been a drinker and it has worsened? Or did he start drinking with his depression?

Is he physically and verbally abusive to you and the kids?

I definitely recommend you go see an IC (for you not as marriage counseling) regardless of the answers to the above questions. However, if he is abusive, this is definitely something you should be tackling with a therapist because you and your kids deserve to be safe in your own home.

As bad as all this is, the good news: this is your chance to really re-evaluate yourself, your m and the next years of your life.

Are you meeting with an IC? If not, you should find one with whom you are comfortable. It helped me a lot!


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
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Hi,

I'm not an expert, but all the reading I have done so far mentions that when there is physical violence or addiction you need to protect yourself. Get out. Get help, or if you must stay only do so if he accepts to attend appropriate therapy and on the condition that he will NEVER be violent again. Not even once.

I'm sorry I don't remember more details, it was not relevant to me so I didn't pay that much attention and only remember it because it is one of the points that most professionals agree on.


"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"

“There is freedom waiting for you,
On the breezes of the sky,
And you ask "What if I fall?"
Oh but my darling,
What if you fly?”

-Erin Hanson





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Hi all, just curious if there is any thread which discussing dealing with an alcoholic going through MLC.

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http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2679130

If you google divorcebusting midlife and alcoholism it should bring up any threads about it

Not sure if there is a better way to search


"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"

“There is freedom waiting for you,
On the breezes of the sky,
And you ask "What if I fall?"
Oh but my darling,
What if you fly?”

-Erin Hanson





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Originally Posted By: Esame
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2679130

If you google divorcebusting midlife and alcoholism it should bring up any threads about it

Not sure if there is a better way to search

Use a :divorcebusting


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I have merged your two threads together. Please stick to one thread until you've reached 100 postings/replies. This allows us to follow your situation w/o confusion as to which thread to post to. Also, you can change your Subject line within a thread at any time.


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ok got it thanks Job!

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Hi all. Feeling pretty crappy today.

I took advice and tried to detach. Tried to give him space. What occurs is a roller coaster. He checks in here and there, is amicable to me, but continues to do whatever he wants whenever he wants while letting me run the entire household/4 kids by myself.

On Sunday, he really pissed me off. I didn't talk to him for almost 3 days. He kept asking me what was wrong, what did he do. Finally, last night, somehow it turned into the dreaded R talk. Where he mentioned he is depressed, cited his paternal grandmother was depressed, talked about how he thinks he has changed and doesn't want his life to be chauffering kids to activites, he wants to travel alone, meet new people alone, but again re-iterated, he loves me, doesn't want to leave his life as he knows it, but has no desire to fix things with me and doesn't really believe we ever had a romance and he feels empty because if it. He says it is an important piece that is missing in his life. He cited that I am too independent, never tried to be sexy or seduce him, didn't validate him and doesn't feel loved by me. I told him he was wrong and told him if he thought he could find happiness else where he should leave and we should do it together. He says he isn't ready to make that decision and needs more time. He said he can't be in the house which is why he constantly leaves. The kids whining "mommy", neighbors coming in and out etc drive him insane. And he says he can't find anything to do in the house besides eat and drink and sleep.


This morning I cried to him, begging him to walk with me, help support me, that I felt so alone. He said he doesn't want to upset me, but he just doesn't have it in him to answer my open ended questions and doesn't know what working on it looks like to him. He told me he regrets saying anything to me about this and doesn't understand why I am so laser focused on him. He just needs time to be left alone and sort this all out. I left the house in tears.

I am completely lost.

How do live in this grey zone. He talks to me as a friend, but is completely detached from me. Can he really come out of this if I leave him alone? Do I go on with our life and attend social events with him as if nothing is wrong, REALLY?

What kind of 180 can I do when all his complaints about me I can't fix without focusing my attention on him. Right now I am 100% raising the kids. He is just a body in my house.

After all this, I am at work now. What do I do from here. Nothing? Do I go home and act like nothing is wrong? Continue my life? Really?

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Your h is right...how can he help you if he can't even help himself? You have a grown up teenager on your hands and he's not going to help you. You need to pull up your big girl panties and start learning how to ask for help from friends and family. He's absolutely no good to you at the moment and it's going to be a long time before he will help you.

The more you talk to him, the more he's not going to do anything to help you. In fact, he's going to do whatever he wants and when he wants and what is so sad, you can't rationalize w/him. The first order of business for now is to cease all talks about him helping you and being there for you. These talks are pushing him further and further away. The hardest part is you are the only sane grown up in the room right now, which means you have to be the mother and the father.

Did you read all of HaWho's threads? She was in the same boat a year or so ago, but she's learned how to do for herself and her sons while her h is zoned out. Try to view your h as a roommate or a distant relative from Mars who is visiting and keep your expectations at zero because he's not going to do what you ask him...remember, he fired you from being his wife for now.

Time to regroup and start asking for help IRL. Leave him to twirl in the wind and if he asks about the kids, then tell him what's going on, but don't volunteer info unless you think it is something he really needs to know.

Go home this evening and do whatever you usually do and do not have another discussion about what he's not doing. If he raises the subject, then talk to him about it, but for now...leave it alone. Just like a teenager, the more you point out what they should be doing, the more they won't do what you are asking of them.

If he should do something for you or on his own and it's good, then be sure to thank him for doing whatever it is. The more he is recognized for good behavior, the better and the more likely he will begin to thaw just a wee bit and come forward to help out a bit. They need validation and admiration quite often.

Keep the focus on you and your children. Leave him to twirl in the wind.


job #2712419 10/26/16 09:52 AM
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Kdvor I'm sorry things are so bad for you at the moment. I don't have any magic solutions, no one does. It is really hard, but please don't ask him for help. He is already telling you he cannot cope, what will burdening him more achieve? I think you need to follow Job's advice to the letter. Think of him as ill. An illness that stops him from doing anything for you, maybe being in a coma or something. What would you do then? Would you beg him for help? Like I said, I know it's hard. Best of luck x


"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"

“There is freedom waiting for you,
On the breezes of the sky,
And you ask "What if I fall?"
Oh but my darling,
What if you fly?”

-Erin Hanson





Esame #2712432 10/26/16 10:46 AM
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Oh wow Kdvor, I heard ALL that same stuff with only slight variations.

I am sorry. All I can tell you is to re-read Job's advice again and again. Those pointers are what got me through the early days.

Other things that helped: I played music, played lots of board games w/my kids and baked. One thing I learned is you don't want his energy to dominate the home. You want to create the energy for your kids and for yourself; this is something I still have to do to this day. My advice is start this right off. No matter how awful you are feeling, do things each and every day that make it cheerful for your kids, even if you just burn a candle that makes the house smell nice.

Another helpful bit of advice is to make sure you are making eye contact with your kids, tousling their hair, smiling at them, hugging them, etc. Those small things are very reassuring to them.

Esame has also given you great advice. The fatigue of depression is very real. I am surprised your h recognized he IS in depression! He just doesn't have it in him and he's not faking. The more you ask for help/ask him to do his part the more he'll pull away.

I don't have any family here and I just did it myself. It was hard. But, honestly? Some MLCers insist on trying to run off with full custody of their kids. I was always thankful that my h had no interest in going this route. I cannot imagine turning my kids over to a crazy person.

My suspicion is you've already been doing most of the work anyway as he's been drifting off for a while now. You are stronger than you know!


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
HaWho #2712466 10/26/16 12:43 PM
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Thanks guys. I keep reading HaWho's threads. They do make me feel a little better.

I am even more frustrated now, last night he told me he may go out of town to Boston today. This morning he told me he may not be going. I came home from work to find his overnight bag gone. Just called him to check in and no answer.

So frustrating.

kdvor #2712481 10/26/16 01:24 PM
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I know it's frustrating. As hard as it is, don't call him or text him. This will be viewed as pressure. If he calls just listen, be pleasant and don't say too much. Don't try to stay on the phone with him. Be cordial but brief.

If your kids ask to call him, let them of course. If they don't ask, don't tell them to do so (also pressure). In the early days, my h had his phone off all the time and did not return calls to any of us. Sadly, my kids stopped trying to call him and one day S13 told him he stopped trying as the phone was always off. (Don't try to fix this relationship between the kids and him, let it run its natural course. It is not your problem to fix.) My h now reaches out to the kids occasionally. With s11 he has gone retro by installing a landline!!! Oh, MLC is so weird.

In those days, I turned off my cell phone completely once my kids were home. I grew tired of worrying and for waiting for texts/calls that never came in. Find some way to keep yourself from calling/texting.

This is the space and time he will take no matter what. This is where you let him twirl in the wind.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
kdvor #2712501 10/26/16 02:09 PM
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Don't call him. Leave him be. He's a grown man and can take care of himself. Your focus now needs to be on you and your children. Checking in w/him reminds him of his mother....do you want to be considered his mother? I don't think so...besides you were fired as his wife...so don't check in w/him unless it is an absolute emergency.

Your man/child has to grow up and you can't help him. The more you try to call/text/email, the more you are pursuing him. He can't miss you if you are doing this stuff. Put that rubber band on your wrist and snap it hard each time you get the urge to contact him.

Seriously...he'll contact you when he's ready or he needs something from you. Leave him alone!


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2712513 10/26/16 02:49 PM
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Its really hard to let go

But Job and Ha Who are right
I remember my XH started coming in at like 2 or 3 in the AM I would wake up and start looking our the window wondering when he would get him

I know how hard it is
It gets easier somehow in time
Because the MLC takes so long , we definitely learn to let go and focus on us and the kids..Its easy to get resentful since we are the adults taking care of the kids and having responsibility while they go out to play-It is a choice b/c our kids needs us and their well being is depending on us

The pain eases
You will figure it out
You will reach a peaceful place again
just hang in there


married 14 years
H 42
bomb 2/07 IDLYA
D final 3 /09
M ow D ow
kdvor #2712551 10/26/16 06:03 PM
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There are parts of your story that sound familiar, and others that are different. The differences might be great enough that my story won't help you at all, but I'll share anyway just in case.

There are two main themes in my story--my husband's depression, which has spun into MLC twice in our marriage, and issues with my libido. He had always wanted a passionate marriage and he keenly felt the lack of feeling loved and desired.

I thought I understood and was improving, but I didn't really get it until this second MLC. Even then, I thought I needed to wait until after he came out of the depression to fix things, because it's hard to feel sexy around a depressed person.

And then he spent an extended amount of time away and came back detached and not sure he wanted to stay married.

All of a sudden, I was super motivated to fix the sex issue. It turns out, I didn't need him to change first. I could change first.

It can be tricky to not pursue while showing you can be in a passionate relationship.

The way I handled it was to never turn down his overtures of physical contact, but to be sensitive to when and where I initiated. In our case, he still slept with his arm around me, and I could initiate sex some nights, but he pulled away if I tried to kiss him during the day. So I kept my hands to myself outside of bed, but if he initiated touch during the day, I was receptive.

Physical touch releases bonding chemicals in the brain, and I wasn't going to prevent him from feeling the effects of those.

In my case, that approach worked well when paired with 180s in other areas and no R talks. At all.

I know it goes against a lot of the advice, and I'm not saying it is what you should do.

But if you think your H is bringing up legit issues in spite of the MLC, you might consider addressing those as you can, even before he snaps out of it.


Me: 44
H: 44
Kids: 20, 16, 16, and 10
Together/Married: 22 years
H announced he was emotionally detached and considering D: 4/4/16
H announced he is going to try to stay and reconnect: 5/1/16
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Thanks all for the constant reminders and support. Little interesting development overnight.

He never called or checked in with me. I ended up having no idea if he went out of town or not, but assumed he did because his overnight bag was gone. I was very anxious and tried hard to focus on my kids and tell myself to stay calm.

I was just falling asleep around midnight when I heard him come in the door and almost run up the steps into my bedroom. I acted as if I was sleeping and as he entered the room immediately said "Kit?" (that is his loving pet name to me). I open my eyes and said hi. He said, "oh just wanted to see if you were sleeping. How are you? I didn't go to Boston, obviously." I said, "Oh, did you work this late?" He said, "no, I have been just sitting in a restaurant for the last 3 hours. . . . by myself. . . . .reflecting. (Long Pause) I feel better tho." I said, "I'm glad. What restaurant". He said "Houlihans". I said, "i love it there". Then he proceeded to ask me what is on the schedule for tomorrow, offered to help with the kids and made a little small talk as he got ready for bed. Then climbed into bed with me and went to sleep.

This morning when he woke up, he wasn't overly friendly, but not cold. He asked me to help him with something and offered to take kids to bus stop. Asked what I was doing today.

I know these are good signs, but this could turn south quickly. Any advice on how to carefully navigate?

Does a MLC seriously make serious headway sitting in a crowded restaurant for 3 hours by himself. ??? Is this meaningful or just typical cycle stuff? Can I do anything to keep the momentum going?

kdvor #2712617 10/27/16 07:07 AM
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It's good that he sat somewhere and just thought about things. He may have thought about moving to a hotel/motel for a while since he had his travel bag w/him. However, it appears he's not ready to move out, so you need to be thankful for that. However, if you do not give him the space and time he needs, he may very well do so. What do you do? Leave him alone and just be there as a friend. Listen, validate and only offer up advice when he asks for it.

What can you do? Keep the focus on you and your children and those expectations that you have right now? Drop them down to zero. The less pressure you put on him to act like a grown up and be there to support you, the better. More pressure = more distancing by him.

Leave him be! He'll come to you when he wants to talk and/or if he needs something. Keep the focus on you and your family.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2712749 10/27/16 06:51 PM
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Thank Job. He had his travel bag because he was debating making a 5 hour drive to Boston to hang out with some co-workers (surgeons) at a Spine Conference. Instead he sat in a restaurant by himself in NJ and reflected and somehow feels better. Oh, how I want to ask him what his revelation is. . BUT I am learning. I will not.

Today he was chatty and I think trying to show me he is "feeling better" what ever that means. He took kids to bus and hung out at my daughter's theater class (never did that before). He asked me to help print stuff and help him look for good prices on a flight to Ireland (going for a friends 40th birthday), and shopped all day buying lululemon clothes and new dark black trendy glasses (j crew style). He is now at his weekly hair appointment. I swear, if i ever see the money he is spending I will be naseous. Anyway, the behavior today was nice, but did not seem geniune to me - more like forced.

Rose (and all) As for the sex thing, for him this is an issue, but he has said even more of an issue is that fact that I NEVER tried to be sexy or seduce him. I am a mom of 4 kids ages 9 and under. When I had my twins I had 4 kids aged 3 and under. He cited I never wore sexy night clothes, etc. I actually think I had done this years ago. . . and he made fun of me. Now I just wear sweats. To be perfectly honest, before this BD, I dreaded sex. I not only didn't want to have sex, I didn't even want to want to have sex. I remember watching Oprah and her saying how important it is, and I couldn't understand it. I guess I see it now. Anyway, my point in all this - is that I have tried to offer sex over the past few weeks AND he has denied it twice. So when is the right time and place for that. How can I make myself sexy and desired by him again?

kdvor #2712788 10/28/16 03:28 AM
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Originally Posted By: kdvor

Rose (and all) As for the sex thing, for him this is an issue, but he has said even more of an issue is that fact that I NEVER tried to be sexy or seduce him. I am a mom of 4 kids ages 9 and under. When I had my twins I had 4 kids aged 3 and under. He cited I never wore sexy night clothes, etc. I actually think I had done this years ago. . . and he made fun of me. Now I just wear sweats. To be perfectly honest, before this BD, I dreaded sex. I not only didn't want to have sex, I didn't even want to want to have sex. I remember watching Oprah and her saying how important it is, and I couldn't understand it. I guess I see it now. Anyway, my point in all this - is that I have tried to offer sex over the past few weeks AND he has denied it twice. So when is the right time and place for that. How can I make myself sexy and desired by him again?


Oh, I so relate to this.

We've talked about how his earlier reactions to my very few attempts made me feel embarrassed. He didn't mean to come across as making fun of me. He was just nervous and embarrassed, even though he liked it.

There are some downsides to neither partner having had any other sexual experience outside the marriage.

I recommend reading some books specifically on this issue. MWD has one, but I would read more than one. You need to really get his perspective.How did you feel when he rejected your offer of sex? Can you use those experiences to feel more empathy for him?

Do you feel sexy? If not, I'd start there. Do you need new clothes, a haircut, etc?

I joined a short burlesque dance class. Not that I have any intention of dancing burlesque, but I wanted to feel more confident and sexy in my own body. H was intrigued.

GAL also makes you seem sexier, because you'll be more alive.

I get the feeling that you want to see change right away. These things take time. You can't expect him to desire you just because you now say you understand. It's going to take time for him to trust you.


Me: 44
H: 44
Kids: 20, 16, 16, and 10
Together/Married: 22 years
H announced he was emotionally detached and considering D: 4/4/16
H announced he is going to try to stay and reconnect: 5/1/16
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Can you guys remind me again how to communicate with him when he is trying to engage in the family activities (but looks like it is torturing him). How do I be enjoyable to be around without talking to much or pushing him away?

kdvor #2712928 10/28/16 01:48 PM
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Think back to when you two met...how did you interact w/one another? How would you act around a distant friend? Don't talk too much, laugh when necessary and just have some small talk about what the children are doing. I would attempt to keep my focus on the children as much as possible as they are a very safe topic of discussion. For example, if your child is doing something fun say "Look at son over there. He's swinging really high on the swings." That leaves the door open if your h wants to say something.

If you haven't checked out HaWho's threads, you might want to do so. Her h was, and I should say, is still doing some of this "torturing" stuff. She's mastered the art of detachment and keeps on down the road.

It's like this, either your H enjoys spending time w/you and the kids or he doesn't. You can't make him enjoy that time. That's why it's important to keep the focus on you and your children. If he sees that everyone is having a good time, he may eventually chime in and want to participate in the activities as well. Keep the expectations at zero!

job #2713040 10/29/16 10:02 AM
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I am starting to think this MLC "condition" is a load of crap. Maybe it is just an excuse we use to enable selfish people to behave badly. My H has the added bonus of alcohol dependency so even when he is trying to "find his way out of the tunnel", then we have to deal with the alcohol ramifications.

As I am starting to wonder when enough is enough, I'd like your take on this. My H was civil and treated me like a wife at a neighborhood social event last night until it was time to go where he choose to stay instead of come home with me and kids (this is normal tho) and then got a call from work at midnight that there was a trauma and he had to go in. ( My H works in an OR and was apparently"On call" this weekend). He decided to drive drunk and go. I offered (instead of begged and pleaded) an alternative, take uber, i'll drive you. I questioned what would happen if the hospital knew he was drunk. He didn't care and left. Luckily he made it home safely and didn't get fired.

Today he slept in and woke up with "that look in his eyes". He tried to be nice but I can see a real struggle. It's gonna be a long day.

Can somebody tell me why I shouldn't just pack it in?

kdvor #2713046 10/29/16 11:17 AM
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Well, I do think the feelings of MLCs are real. How people behave in response to those feelings varies quite a bit.

To be honest, the drink driving and working is the part that concerns me. I haven't faced that situation, so I can't say for sure, but that might be more than I could live with.

I don't see anything wrong with him staying later than you and the kids. H and I have started leaving separately because it works better for us than negotiating a departure time.


Me: 44
H: 44
Kids: 20, 16, 16, and 10
Together/Married: 22 years
H announced he was emotionally detached and considering D: 4/4/16
H announced he is going to try to stay and reconnect: 5/1/16
kdvor #2713048 10/29/16 11:26 AM
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Can somebody tell me why I shouldn't just pack it in? This is a question that we ask ourselves frequently along our life's journey and the answer is always the same..."you and only you can determine when you've had enough".

Now, my take is this, if you are asking the question, then you aren't ready to pack it in. Trust me, you'll know when to call it quits, if it comes to making that decision.

Dig deeper for patience.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2713083 10/29/16 03:57 PM
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Ummm...I understand your frustration with his behavior and the amount of patience it takes to try to DB an MLC spouse who also has an alcohol problem. But I will echo Rose's concern about driving and working drunk. It sounds like your H is in medicine? This is a big, big boundary for me. When on call he cannot drink. Period. My H (also in medicine) would not even have a beer when on call in his earlier years. However, he has tripped over the dependency line in the past and attempted to make poor decisions. DB or not DB, if he's in a position to hurt others (driving or working) then one must act appropriately. Take the keys, have him call in and tell them he screwed up and drank too much, or report him to others. I know you questioned what the hospital would think about him being drunk, but what if he hit someone with his car or made a mistake at work? I guarantee he would care when he was sober...and so would you.

Sorry if it sounds harsh, but I've been amazed at the "not me" attitude of my former friends when it came to driving drunk. It really strikes a nerve. I didn't grow up around adults who thought it was ok to get faced on the weekends and then drive home drunk. The adults I grew up around believed you did that when you were young and "invincible" but grew out of it when you had family and responsibilities; people that depended on you. I know times may have changed, but the meaning of the word "responsible" has not. Maybe he needs the consequences to hit him where it hurts before he endangers others. It may lead to him hitting bottom; it may lead to him being forced to seek help. It may lead to you telling yourself to pack it in...who knows? But this isn't actually a question about what is the right way to DB or stay with him. This is more just a question of what is right, period. I personally couldn't let him leave drunk and work drunk knowing that someone else might be affected. Permanently.


M-51 H-54
2D-27 and 25
M-26 yrs
Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15
He moved out 10-3-15
D filed 1-27-16
D final 10-27-16

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Ciluzen, I don't think your posting is harsh by any means.

I agree w/ciluzen's concern on the drinking and driving. If your h is behind the wheel driving drunk, he not only could hurt/kill himself, but he could do the same to others. Also, if he should happen to hurt/kill someone, he is setting himself and you up for lawsuits and this not only applies to driving but working in the OR.

If you can't take the keys from him or he refuses to call a cab and he gets behind the wheel after drinking, call the police and have them pick him up. It's better to be safe then sorry later for not doing so. If his drinking becomes too much, they have a system that can be installed on a vehicle that will not allow him to turn the ignition unless his breath is clean of alcohol. This system would get him off the street when drinking.

In cases of drinking and driving or doing a job that affects others, DB is not the way to go. As ciluzen stated, the responsible thing to do is take the keys, call a cab, you drive him to work, or he calls a friend, but under no circumstances should be he driving or working in the OR in that condition.

Are you attending any al-anon meetings? If you aren't, you need to think about doing so.

BTW, it's also time to start a new thread.

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