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Oluwa Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: MrBond
'Its so far out of my comfort zone, but thats the point isnt it to try new things and GAL!!'

No it isn't. When are you picking up the book?


Thank you for the reply MrBond. I guess I may have misinterpreted this, to me the GAL is going out more on my own and trying new things. So attending new classes etc, rather than staying in the house trying to spend time with my wife, is part of a GAL plan.

Getting hold of DR is proving to be harder than I would like. I get most books on Kindle and Google Play, so my wife cannot see what I am buying then. I can't order online for the hardcopy as I don't want it delivered to the house. So I need to get to a book shop to get them to order it in. This will now have to be monday before I can do that. The bookshop I can go to doesnt have it on their website, so I am not sure if they can order it in.

Anyway I will source it on monday at work, just hope its not going to take too long to come.


M 46 W 41
MR 17 T 18
S12 D14 S17

03/15 : ILYBINILWY
10/15 : IDLYA
01/16 : "I'm sacrificing to stay in the marriage for the kids!"
10/16 : She discusses Seperation
BUT...she's still here..for now
Oluwa #2711664 10/22/16 05:00 AM
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Oluwa Offline OP
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So assume it is also ok to post journal entries of events that are happening, to keep track and maybe give people some insight into how my MR is infolding.

So I slept in the MBR last night (normally only do on Friday and Saturday nights, cause of her sleeping early for work). No cuddles from her, but thats ok. Alarm went off at 7am as we were planning a Parkrun (5km Race) at the local park. I asked if she was doing it, she said yes. I got up to pack her and my running stuff.

We went and did the run, I finish before her and waited for her to finish. She didnt run a good time for her (either did I), but she was happy at the end of the race. We drove home and she made coffee for both of us after showering.

I had to go out to take D14 to acting in the city, so will be out of house for 4 hours or so. I dropped her and then went to shops to get some more halloween stuff. We are still going ahead with a Halloween party at our house that I suggested we do. I've never suggested a party in the 17 years we've been together. I have been organizing it all and she has not been involved. This is a big turnaround as she would normally organize and just delegate a few things for me to do. She even said today, have you got the numbers of people coming so I know how much food to buy. She said its your party so you need to do that as well. I said I thought it was our party and she said well your responsible for organizing it. Fair enough, I didn't comment, and I did want to do it.

I have lots of games planned and will be the main host for the party, so again should be good fun and not something I have done for a long time (only my kids birthdays when they were younger).

When I got back I started to do the back garden etc so it looks reasonable for the party. We had a few chats/interactions through the day, mainly housework and her talking about work a little bit.

She cleaned the showers today, a big clean, and normally I would do it, but as she was going to do it I was about to say "Hey I can do that!", but I decided to not offer, since that is my normal behaviour and I have noticed that sometimes she gets annoyed when I offer to do everything. She has said "your trying too hard sometimes".

After dinner, she says she is going to sit in the SPA and relax for an hour or two and then myself, her and S12 can watch soccer together. I was so keen to say, "Can I join you?", but managed to resist as I am sure it wouldn't have gone down well.

As she was preparing the SPA, she asked if she could use one of the Bath Salts I got for Fathers Day, I said sure. Its one of those fizzing ones and she asked if I wanted to see what it does in the SPA. She called S12 as well to look.

After that I left her to it, finsihed up the kitchen and am now sitting outside in the cool evening air with a cup of herbal tea and writing all this up.

So, the usual pleasant day with her, as long as not R is mentioned.
I am pleased that I didn't say anything about the SPA, just left her to it and came outside to enjoy myself on my own.


M 46 W 41
MR 17 T 18
S12 D14 S17

03/15 : ILYBINILWY
10/15 : IDLYA
01/16 : "I'm sacrificing to stay in the marriage for the kids!"
10/16 : She discusses Seperation
BUT...she's still here..for now
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Originally Posted By: Oluwa
Traditionally I would expect that both parties would want to work on the marriage for it to succeed.

Most people when they arrive here are past the traditionally stage.
Now you are in the lets say "emergency" stage.
Yes she can sense what you are doing just like you
sense what is happening with her.
As far as her showing you her commitment.
I would suggest she is unable to do that right now.
And you pursuing that pushes her further away.

So yes you can journal here,
and my suggestion is to re-read my first post to you,
there is really one word that is the most important.

DETACH.

How are you doing on the homework?


Me-70, D37,S36
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Oluwa Offline OP
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Hi. Yes I did read some more of the articles and threads you posted. They make alot of sense, especially the Pursuer - Distancer model, which is definitely been the dance in our marriage for a very long time. Of course, as she has stated her lack of love, its made it even worse for me and I have pursued alot, but in the last few months have learnt to deal with it better and not pursue as much. But I am clearly still pursuing and not full detached by any means.

With the way we are running our lives with the 3 kids, it is very difficult not to talk and engage with her. I slept in the MBR again last night, no cuddling from her (2 weekends in a row, but im not counting!!). She still likes to engage me in conversation about her work and other general stuff, just like me being a close friend.

I'm hoping to order DR tommorow, went to local bookshop today and they didnt have it or order it. Worst case I will have to order online and get it delivered to a friends house.

So I have to muddle through with some of the ideas. Am I meant to not show interest in her conversations anymore? I know everyone says that whole detaching is counter-intuitive, but I just can't see how this would benefit our current sitch.

Saying that, my IC who advised to separate in the house in one session and then subsequently move out in another is clearly telling me the same thing, I guess maybe he feels I can't detach without physically removing myself from the situation? (He may well be right).

I gotta say it again, that I have spent so long on this already that I am finding it hard to want to work on it, i.e. wait in limbo for more months. Im gonna read the book and journal for a while and see how things pan out.


M 46 W 41
MR 17 T 18
S12 D14 S17

03/15 : ILYBINILWY
10/15 : IDLYA
01/16 : "I'm sacrificing to stay in the marriage for the kids!"
10/16 : She discusses Seperation
BUT...she's still here..for now
Oluwa #2711779 10/23/16 05:43 AM
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So next day journal.

Woke up in MBR, no contact. She asked me to put kettle on and then she made us both coffee in bed. After coffee I got up to do the lawn our front before we were going out to sons soccer training.

While I am outside, she comes out to tell me about a dress she bought and how they messed up the the discount and she paid a lot less for it. I listened and talked to her about it a bit. Then she went back in. As I keep saying, why does she come and engage with me if she wants out of the marriage.

As an example of detaching, what should I have done, just said sorry I am busy can't talk now or I'm not really interested ?

We went to soccer training, when we got there I said I am going to get a drink and something to eat. I wasn't asking her to come, but she is like lets go together and have a walk. Didn't really talk about anything in particular. Guess we're so used to doing things together, and she probably doesn't expect me to just go on my own.

On the drive home she was suffering with bad hayfever, I offered a couple of times for her to pull over and I would drive, but she said it was ok. She said she would go to bed for a while when she got home.

She didn't end up resting and did housework and cooking as is our normal hectic weekend. I was out in the garden and pool doing work most of the day.

At some point I was in the house and I heard her shouting, she had taken S12 phone of him and was screaming at him that he should do some homework. She was leaving the room as I came in and shouted at me, he's been on that phone all afternoon, why don't you do something about it. I said I have been out the back most of the day and only just walked back in.

So I started to talk to S12 about mixing up his time and not just being on the phone. As I do this, she comes back in the room with a slipper and shouts "So you're still lying down!" and proceeds to wack him with the slipper. I'm shout "Hey! You asked me to talk to him and thats what I am doing, why are you coming in and wacking him in the middle of the conversation". Son ran to his room and then she started saying I never pay attention to what the kids are doing, I need to get my priorities right. This is not true as I have talked to S12 even earlier in the week. She also ignores it, until sometimes she just remembers and starts at him out of nowwhere.

Today she was particularly tired and ill so was short tempered with the whole family. Why she didn't go and rest I don't know.

She was abusing me and having a really angry face, so I stood up really quickly as I was very angry with her. She's like if you touch me, you'll see what happens...I said what will happen...She sort of floundered and didnt really say. It calmed down but I told her that it made no sense for her to come and hit him 1 minutes after she asked me to talk to him.

I also said that I do monitor my kids and talk to them, and I am not taking that from her. She didn't pursue the argument, which is common as once he has exploded she wants her silent time and starts to feel ok again.

The main thing here, is I haven't felt anger and unfairness in what she was doing for many years. I have always backed down or let her behave badly. We did use to argue loudly sometimes, but never physically. She said "Oh its still in you isnt it?", meaning I can still get angry etc.

This is interesting as although I don't want to have fights with her, calling her out on behavior is something I have been too scared to do for so long.

Since then I have seen her around the house and we have talked abotu a few little things, but I have in general kept away. When I went to get dressed she suddenly says I can't find S12 phone, she took it in the heat of the argument. I laughed and said next time when you get angry remember where you hide things.

I helped her find it and then came back outside to finish the pool and write up the days events.

So I sort of feel a bit stronger in myself, as I showed emotions to her that I haven't shown for 2-3 years. Of course, there not good emotions, but she has been showing her ugly side for a very long time and I don't intend to go down that path. But maybe getting some balls is part of my attempt to detach.


M 46 W 41
MR 17 T 18
S12 D14 S17

03/15 : ILYBINILWY
10/15 : IDLYA
01/16 : "I'm sacrificing to stay in the marriage for the kids!"
10/16 : She discusses Seperation
BUT...she's still here..for now
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Obtaining DR without S seeing is a problem around here. DR should come with a few very lame covers that the other certainly wouldn't pick up. I can think of a few... taxes, fishing, golf, knitting...

Anyway. From what I am reading here your R is in a big rut. Your W is very unhappy in her life, stressed about kids and H. She's friendzoned you (at least, to a degree).

It sounds like there's lots of positive activities you've been doing- yoga, running races, reading self-help books. I'm picturing a generally calm guy, going in to talk to his son, calmly, and an angry, stressed out, frustrated W comes in, trying to make son do his homework. Your dynamic isn't good. Your calmness doesn't make her more calm. DR work is fine, I'd avoid R talk, but I would also sit down with her and offer to make a list of ways you can help with the kids or around the house. Your S is 12-- he's going to be a teen soon, with all that goes not doing homework, on phone constantly be it texting or playing games-- change is afoot. See how she responds to your offer to discuss home life stuff (not R stuff)!


me 42 H 32
T 7yr
M 6yr
BD 5/2016 ILYBNILWY
Separated 7/2016
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While you've been waiting to find the DR book, why not finish reading your homework assignments?

Quote:
As an example of detaching, what should I have done, just said sorry I am busy can't talk now or I'm not really interested ?


She wasn't asking anything from you, right? She was sharing how the store messed up and she got the dress much cheaper than the retail price. If you actually was busy doing something, then you proceed while she's chit-chatting. No need to be rude, if you don't have to be.

Are you sure you understand what DBing detaching really is?

Quote:
She was abusing me and having a really angry face


How was she abusing you?

Quote:
The main thing here, is I haven't felt anger and unfairness in what she was doing for many years. I have always backed down or let her behave badly


I am finding this to be a common behavior among LBH'S who have a WW. The result in this type of relationship dynamic is a W who loses all attraction for him as a man, and no longer respects him as her H. Until he changes the dynamics, there will be no change in her behavior.....nor her lack of feelings for him.

Quote:
This is interesting as although I don't want to have fights with her, calling her out on behavior is something I have been too scared to do for so long


Why? What were you afraid she'd do........... Leave you? So, you go into this subservient role, doing all the work so she doesn't have to, and catering to her like she's the Queen of Sheba. If so, my advice is to resign as her unpaid & overworked employee and start behaving like you are the man in your home. Stop being scared of losing her, and emotionally let go. You are too emotionally dependent on the MR, and that dependency is causing you to cling too tightly....... loosing your manly appeal.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Patience is the key here. It depends on what your ultimate goal is.


M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

RECONCILED AND WISER
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Thanks Altair.

Yes she is unhappy, and I think this is because we are so busy, both working full time and kids. Kids are S17, D14 and S12, so am in the midst of teenage years now. S17 has turned out good, he has matured alot and is more communicative again now at 17. My wife is starting to have a good relationship with him again now. It was tough for quite a few years. She always used to pick on him, this seems to have transferred to S12 now.

Honestly I do do alot of housework, kids and help. She is never left to do everything herself. So I don't think that it is my lack of help that is causing this. Yesterday when she wasnt well I told her to go to bed, but she didn't, even the kids sometimes say, mum you don't have to cook amazing meals everyday (which she does). She takes alot of pride in preparing food etc, but it is to the detrimant of her own health sometimes, i.e. she doesnt rest.

I may try to talk about housework etc, but I have done before, and she has said you just have to get on with it that is life.


M 46 W 41
MR 17 T 18
S12 D14 S17

03/15 : ILYBINILWY
10/15 : IDLYA
01/16 : "I'm sacrificing to stay in the marriage for the kids!"
10/16 : She discusses Seperation
BUT...she's still here..for now
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 62
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Oluwa Offline OP
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Thanks Sandi for the comprehensive reply.

I may not be 100% sure on the DB detaching. I just feel that why does she still engage with me and treat me like a friend if she want to separate. I feel that since I am always available to her, when she wants to talk about work, or anything trivial, that to her there is no change, she gets the social release she wants, once in a while, but doesn't need to do anything towards trying to fix the R.

When I say she was abusing me, it was she was shouting at me and saying I don't pay attention etc. So abusing maybe too strong a word, but she was extremely angry, mainly because i challenged her behaviour on why she would be hitting S12 minutes after she asked me to talk to him. I don't think punishing and shouting at your kids, especially when they are over 12 is going to motivate them to do homework. Her heart is in the right place, in that she wants the best for them, so she gets frustrated when they are not doing their best, but her attitude comes across as out of control to the kids.

Sandhi, YES!! The lack of respect and attraction are defintely alot to do with my passivity over the years of the marriage. I have been a typical Mr. Nice Guy, thinking I was doing the right thing to keep her happy, but see that it has had the opposite effect. It is one of the reasons I highlighted the angry episode, as I have not done that in years and although she didn't like it, she will note that its not the H she has been used to for years. The fact that she said "That behaviour is still in you, it hasn't left you!" is interesting. We used to argue this way, but overtime she would shut conversations down by saying we should divorce etc. So I eventually backed down and stopped the arguing over things I wasn't happy with, because of the threat of divorce. I thought I was being a better man.



"Why? What were you afraid she'd do........... Leave you? So, you go into this subservient role, doing all the work so she doesn't have to, and catering to her like she's the Queen of Sheba. If so, my advice is to resign as her unpaid & overworked employee and start behaving like you are the man in your home. Stop being scared of losing her, and emotionally let go. You are too emotionally dependent on the MR, and that dependency is causing you to cling too tightly....... loosing your manly appeal."

110% correct and I have realized this for quite a while. I do put her on a pedestal, especially when we go out socialising, she is such a attractive person and very outgoing with everyone. But she isn't like that in the house alot of the time, she saves her frustrations and anger for the family home. Its like a double life.

It is so hard to break the relationship model we have formed, as I am still finding it so hard to detach and stick up for myself. I feel that if I do demand more, or stop doing things for her, she will just want to Seperate more. But, deep down I know that the way I have been behaving is not changing anything at all. So I need change the dynamics, but to do that I have to 100% believe that I can handle either outcome, i.e. it could push her more away and make the decision for her, but at least we have movement ?


M 46 W 41
MR 17 T 18
S12 D14 S17

03/15 : ILYBINILWY
10/15 : IDLYA
01/16 : "I'm sacrificing to stay in the marriage for the kids!"
10/16 : She discusses Seperation
BUT...she's still here..for now
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