To confront or not confront cheating W?

[Natus]

I kind of feel detachment will play right into her fantasy of her not having to feel guilty while she runs around with the OM.

She already ran around with OM. Sorry but you really should be focusing on how you feel not what she feels.

[MrBond]

I think you need to really read the DR book and study it. It seems like you're asking alot of questions from someone who just started reading it.

[sandi2]

Question: Sandi you talk a lot about boundaries and holding firm on consequences. But you also admit you cannot punish them like one of your kids.

Whatever you decide will be a boundary to protect you physically, emotionally or mentally, is not effective without a resulting consequence for the one who may dishonor or ignore the boundary. What happens in the boys locker room when a guy won't stand up for himself? What happens when you tolerate a bully?

Remember, the purpose is not to control the other person's life....it is about protecting yourself.

Struggling with a tangible consequence other than kicking her out or Leaving. Don't think I can do that every time we have an encounter.

Let's say the WW phones you and begins to curse at you and calling you every vile name in the book. Can you think of a boundary? How about stating something like......."I will not listen while being disrespected over the phone". Then, if she says anything offensive toward you or starts yelling, etc.......what could you do as an effective consequence for her calling you on the phone and being disrespectful? You simply hang up the phone. No goodbyes, no discussions about it, no negotiations, no warnings, no pleading, and no apology.

Please read the link Cadet provided on boundaries. It should help you.

I will add this, that an ineffective boundary is no boundary at all.

[Vinny76]

Thanks for the advice.

So I've read the entire DR book. I feel like I am in the experiment phase of figuring out what works and what doesn't. over the past few weeks I have detached and started to GAL working out and going out with friends. she is definenently responding. Or so I think. I remember what you said Sandi about the WW and how manipulative they can be. Here is what I am now experiencing based on my actions.

I started by Truely detaching. Thinking her more as a good friend rather than spouse. Not letting her actions effect me and not initiating much engagement. Also I have GAL, working out etc. She has all of a sudden become very into telling me about her day in detail. Also, if she's out late I find her overexplaining to me what she's doing and why. She has been throwing things into the conversation that allude to the future such as, "when we retire we're going to have a buddy with us! (alluding to my son with Down syndrome)". It's all in a positive tone. I feel she is perhaps leaving bread crumbs to keep me at bay or she suspects I may know about the affair as I STILL haven't confronted her. (Yes I know this is bad). Even though it might be a bit disengenious, isn't this progress? At least we are engaging in conversation!

I am struggling with the right time to bring up the A.With the momentum I have I'm worried about derailing by bringing up the A and have the small progress I'm seeing unravel. Is waiting in this situation a bad idea?

[sandi2]

I suggest you think of her as if she is an elderly person renting a room in your house, or a nosy neighbor. Thinking of her as though she's a friend, IMO, is not healthy. She is not your friend. She is betraying you.

Also I have GAL, working out etc.

It's good you are working out, but GAL for real.

She has all of a sudden become very into telling me about her day in detail. Also, if she's out late I find her overexplaining to me what she's doing and why. She has been throwing things into the conversation that allude to the future such as, "when we retire we're going to have a buddy with us! (alluding to my son with Down syndrome)". It's all in a positive tone.

And do you play along with this little game? She does this to keep blinders on you as long as possible. Believe none of it.

I feel she is perhaps leaving bread crumbs to keep me at bay or she suspects I may know about the affair as I STILL haven't confronted her. (Yes I know this is bad). Even though it might be a bit disengenious, isn't this progress? At least we are engaging in conversation!

How can you see engaging in conversation as progression, when she is lying to you.....and sleeping with OM?



Are you working on your boundaries?

[Vinny76]

Working on them but Some if the boundaries are tough.

She does things that are hard to create boundries around. Example: we both have high paying jobs. She makes more money than I do, but we are both accomplished. She refuses to engage in meaningful conversation with me around my job. And when around our mutual friends she'll talk about careers jobs etc with my guy friends. The second I engage in the conversation she turns off and walks away or disengages with the convo. It's super disrespectful but not sure how to create boundaries with something like that without whining That I demand respect. Just 1 example but most of the issues I have are more from a dismissive perspective than with confrontations.

My other issue is around our family. Just today we went out shopping with the 4 of us and literally the second my son or daughter do anything beyond being perfect (their kids for gods sake), she starts hemming and hawing about how much of a disaster being all together is. What MOTHER says that!!! It fires me
Up every time, usually with me attacking back. Today I calmly tried to address it by saying although my son was acting up a bit, it wasn't bad and she shouldn't suggest not being together as a family. She snapped back with how "strange" I am and for me to" get real" that no one is happy when we're all together and for us to divide and conquer with the kids (I always end up with my son who is way more challenging.) I struggle here because it's always in front of the kids and although I don't want to engage in a fight but sometimes I do. I know
I shouldn't. Would an appropriate boundary be to tell her I won't tolerate and take
The kids away from where she is?

[MrBond]

She refuses to engage in meaningful conversation with me around my job.

So? She doesn't want to talk to you. This isn't something you put a boundary on. Its petty because you feel she's bruising your ego. Go and talk to someone else. That's all.

[Vinny76]

So I have to say after reading the book, I am bit confused. I am struggling between the following strategies:

1. Book: Become the best version of me and "be happy" at all times but detach. Listen to her intently when she talks to me and make eye contact, and show her someone who she wants to be with.
2. Sandis rules: Detach, remove myself from her everyday - act civilly when addressed but do not engage with her, cut off contact during the day. Make her feel I am moving on and make her feel my absence.

How can you be happy, lovingly detach and show her the best version of "you" AND follow the rules of detachment outlined by Sandi and making her feel your absence by removing yourself from all activities to the point she feels you are not there?

[AndrewP]

Vinny76 - Yes it does seem confusing and contradictory. I will admit that I've not read back closely into your situation so my advice may be off but I have noticed your posts and followed along a bit.

First - being the best version of "you" is first and foremost for you and not for your W. It isn't something you flash around or brag about, it's something that you do as you become the best man you can be. Even though I'm not a particular fan, I will often listen to Michael Jackson's "Man in the Mirror" when I'm struggling. Be the man in the mirror you can admire.

Secondly - Your W will notice the changes but if she thinks the changes are being done to lure her back she'll dismiss it as "too little too late" or even worse "pathetic". Again, any changes you make are for you.

With detachment it doesn't mean ignoring her or being rude. It means living your life as best as you can on your own without being dependant on her for you approval. If she engages you, be kind and considerate but keep a boundary between you. Remember, she's fired you as a H and she doesn't "deserve" to be treated as a W. She has to earn that back again. Until then, be the best you can be and show her the strong, confident Vinny76 that you will become.

[sandi2]

1. Book: Become the best version of me and "be happy" at all times but detach. Listen to her intently when she talks to me and make eye contact, and show her someone who she wants to be with.
2. Sandis rules: Detach, remove myself from her everyday - act civilly when addressed but do not engage with her, cut off contact during the day. Make her feel I am moving on and make her feel my absence.

I would be interested in knowing which rules say this ^^^^^^^. Which rules do you see as contradiction to what MWD has written?