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ciluzen #2713882 11/02/16 12:30 PM
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Hi Ciluzen,

It sounds like you handled the holiday well, and like you are doing great. I don't think you need a rubber band! Holidays and special occasions can trigger all sort of feelings, you are dealing with all of it amazingly. You are such an inspiration and source of support to us all, you must be proud of yourself xxx


"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"

“There is freedom waiting for you,
On the breezes of the sky,
And you ask "What if I fall?"
Oh but my darling,
What if you fly?”

-Erin Hanson





Esame #2714621 11/06/16 09:36 PM
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I disagree, Esame. I still need the rubberband, LOL!

So, weird weekend. I've kept pretty busy with events, activities and school. But here are some bits that had me thinking of H again (my rebound time is shorter now).

Ran a 5k with one of his assistants and one of my new friends who is in his same profession. We didn't talk about him, but his assistant was very happy to see me (and I, her). We had a nice time joking the whole way and met up with her sister and mom afterward to catch up. A very nice time on a beautiful fall day, all in all.

Today his other assistant came over to pick up a painting of her children she had commissioned me to do for her H's anniversary present. We talked for a few hours and she told me my D was in our newspaper (I haven't gotten my final papers yet), so its official now. She told me XH is very depressed and feels like he has failed...that selling the house really hit him hard. I must be a bit evil, because my inner response is "good! I hope it hurts like h$ll!". She gave me other details about him, his actions, what he has been up to, but it just seems almost like I'm hearing stories of an old highschool friend I lost touch with many years ago. I don't really know him anymore...especially since there were some lies and secrets involved that blurred my image of what I thought was real.

In a text convo with D26 and her SIL's inlaws, I found that both my D's and I will be at SIL's for Thanksgiving. It is assumed that H will not be going. How sad is that? I know he is going to visit his parents in December, so I can only guess he'll do Thanksgiving where he did it last year...with Bubbles and her family. His family will be together celebrating without him. His loss. I had fun last year, even during the lowest time I went through. It should be lovely this year. D26 said "its just Thanksgiving. He'll probably do Christmas with us, though." I hope he doesn't disappoint her. I'm learning he's in his own sad but selfish little world. Not my problem. Not my H anymore. Maybe someday he'll realize he had choices in these situations, and that he didn't choose his own family. I wonder how long the girls will put up with it?


M-51 H-54
2D-27 and 25
M-26 yrs
Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15
He moved out 10-3-15
D filed 1-27-16
D final 10-27-16

Kindness, kindness, kindness.
ciluzen #2714630 11/07/16 03:28 AM
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I think the best thing to say to yourself about H's holiday plans (and how he messed things up) is "Not my circus not my monkeys". It's one of my favourite expressions at the moment and I say it to myself A LOT!

Congrats on running the 5K!


"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"

“There is freedom waiting for you,
On the breezes of the sky,
And you ask "What if I fall?"
Oh but my darling,
What if you fly?”

-Erin Hanson





Esame #2714659 11/07/16 07:10 AM
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Thanks Esame. I like that saying, as well. Problem is, I really have been struggling lately. The visit with his assistant yesterday was good and bad.I guess I need to break down my reactions to her news to see why.
She let me know that my D was in the newspaper...I didn't know.It threw me a bit and sent a little shock wave. Its real, now.
She said XH hadn't been telling people (patients) but she felt he might start now. She said many of his long time patients ask after me and that now he's started telling some that we are D. She also said that some have asked whose decision it was and that he says it was his when they do. I'm glad of that, but I have this cold, empty feeling now. I guess that I just feel like I'm being publicly excised from his life, where before he was hiding the fact and...it gave me hope?

I told her that I was going to have to take some of my pictures down for a show in January and I would prefer to do it when he wasn't there (with his knowledge, of course). So she volunteered to help and also to help put them up at the venue. But then she went on to say that XH had taken some of my paintings down as my D26 had given him a drive with her photography on it and that he had paid to have it printed on canvas and hung in his office. He had ordered a second one as well. I love my D and had encouraged her when he first opened his office to help fill the office walls with her art as well, but for some reason I felt ...betrayed? Its silly and petty I know, but she never said "hey, mom! I finally gave Dad some pictures to put in his office!" It just drove home the point that my D is really unable to share even good thoughts with me if they have to do with her dad. I hate having people keep things from me...call it PTSD from XH's actions. I want to sit both D down and explain that to them. It hurts more to find out that they hold things back that I could be happy about...that they normally would be happy to share with me; but because it involves their dad, I learn it from others.

It also drove home how sensitive I was when I heard he took down my art. He has lots of wall space to fill so it wasn't necessary. He asked to keep my art up even at mediation and I agreed. Maybe he only wanted to keep it up when he didn't want patients to know we were D (mind reading, I know). She then said I hate them; not D26's pictures, but just the fact that...I like your paintings. I think that was more her feeling that she is confused by H's behavior, too. I'm having a hard time with what to do. Maybe just nothing. Let him do his thing...its his office.

She also let me know that a friend keeps telling her she wants to set me up with someone that would be perfect for me when I'm ready. I don't even know her friend...how would they know whose perfect for me?
"A" (assistant) went on to tell me of convos she had with XH...he wants to do something else, he's lonely at night after work, he's so very depressed etc. Yeah, because he's in a MLC! But she also let me know he still goes to all of Bubbles' kids sporting events and such. His words to me that he misses companionship in the evenings, but he doesn't miss me were brought to mind by this.

So...there is my very H centered post. I'm hoping I got that out of my system a bit. Its just such a weird thing to happen to those of us it is happening to. I remember that just a month before XH announced we were done, he did this funny thing he used to always do when I was in the shower. He'd carry a chair over and climb up and "peep" at me (tmi, I know). It was all kind of a joke between us and always ended up ...very nicely. ONE MONTH before he announced we were done. I just shake my head...its now been a year and a half.And now we are D.


M-51 H-54
2D-27 and 25
M-26 yrs
Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15
He moved out 10-3-15
D filed 1-27-16
D final 10-27-16

Kindness, kindness, kindness.
ciluzen #2715802 11/13/16 03:16 PM
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Hi Ciluzen,

I'm sorry you are going through all this. It's normal to have all those feelings and those memories coming back. You spent so much time together, loved each other... Some piece of paper that says "divorced" cannot erase that.

My h and I are "only" separated and I have the same issue with some friends and family, even my own mother. They just don't understand that after all my h did I still care about him and that I like to recall some of the happy memories, care about how he feels and even enjoy time spent together as a family etc. It's pointless to try to explain it. But it does make interactions awkward...

I can understand how you feel and I wish there was something I could say or do to ease your pain. It's always dangerous to mind read. We are only hurting ourselves by doing that (yes, I'm also guilty, of course). Maybe he had to put your paintings down because it was painful for him to look at them... what do we know what's going on in their minds?

I hope that with time the information you learn about what he does and how he is will get easier to absorb.

Stay strong!


M: 41
H: 50
2S: 13 & 15
H moved out Feb 2016
Bee29 #2716915 11/20/16 09:50 AM
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Seeing Lifestwists most recent post and the my seeing my XH yesterday have me in an interesting state of mind right now. Not a negative one in any way, just thoughtful. So I'll journal a bit.

I had planned on Christmas shopping with my D26 yesterday. At some point during the week, she felt the need to ask her dad if he was going to be in town since she would like to see him, too (she lives an hour away and works crazy hours-a full time job and two side jobs). He decided to meet up with us to shop and we ended up doing lunch/late dinner together. She made sure I was ok with that, and then expressed that he has been kind of "weird" lately. Couldn't explain how. So, here are my observations and thoughts. I'll try not to mindread.

1) He walked into the store we were in and waited until I had moved away from D26 to approach. I saw him come in (she didn't) and realized he was milling around so I purposefully moved away from her. He then quickly walked up to her. He did not really acknowledge me when I joined them and would only look at me in short glances and side glances.
I busied myself shopping away from them because she had said she wanted his help picking out a snowboard for her H, but he wandered off to look at gloves (I was at the other end of that section). As he got closer and closer to me, he finally made a comment about some to me with one of his quick upward glances. I ended up showing him a picture I had taken of my purchases at a ski sale. He was surprised that I went and also surprised that I had finally bought a helmet. He seemed very tired and ...uncomfortable?

2) D then needed help with buying ski pants for her H. We had two young sales guys helping her as she was trying to figure out if the pants would fit her H. XH kept saying he was the same height and he could try them on. Her H is 6ft tall and slender. Both sales guys would have been good fits. But D let her dad try on the pants. He is just under 6 ft and has a bit of a belly right now...not bad, but a bit bigger than her H. He didn't seem to realize this, though. It was kind of strange. He seemed almost irritated that she didn't immediately ask him to try them on.

3)We had agreed to pitch in on her H's snowboard and each gave her money to do so. As she moved away I asked him if he would go in on a jacket that she wanted. He agreed to it and then wanted to show me some womens ski pants that he had accidentally bought (mis-labeled) at the ski sale, so we went out to his car together. He was going to let her have them. I'm so used to this self assured, cocky guy. He was so timid and almost shy. I kept thinking ...broken.

4)At lunch/dinner, two things were very weird. He got onto the subject of being audited and having to pay back-sales tax on business equipment. I let him talk (my new habit) and did empathize with him (it was something his accountant should have caught). He was able to make eye contact the whole time through this. But at one point I wanted to say something and he steam-rolled rightover me. I tried to say it again (just a similar thing that happened to my friend who is in the same profession) and he talked over me with more FORCE. I tried again and he talked over the top through gritted teeth. I got the message. He just wants to be heard.
He is so angry underneath his mask. It doesn't take much for him to transfer it to me. I get that, and I just let it go til he talked it out.

5) The other weird thing? The restaurant we were in is owned by a client of my D (she does advertising and social media). When our food arrived, she announced we should move in for a picture. H held his hand up and said "Wait! What is this for?" When she explained it was to go on social media, I explained she could tag his business FB (he doesn't have his own). He said "No!" Very forcefully. She asked if she could just take a picture of us, and he again said no. Ok, then. This is the guy that used to always want pictures of himself...

Anyway, we split the bill and paid for D's food. I, oddly, was the only one who had a drink. That surprised me, too. XH usually orders something...or 2 somethings. When we walked out I gave her a big hug and left. I didn't even say goodbye to XH; although still standing by D it was as if he was already walking away.

Except for the weird things, it was a decent time. XH cracked a few jokes like he used to, but weakly. I commented that he looked a bit tired at one point and he admitted he was exhausted. His difficulty making eye contact and seeming discomfort with the me, or us, was new. But XH is lost right now. I agree with D. He is weird. But I believe his depression is starting to crack the mask.

I know this was a long post about XH, but I have chosen to put MLC related stuff on this thread. I think it belongs here. I get to talk about me in the Surviving forum. And "me" is actually getting happy...with who I am.


M-51 H-54
2D-27 and 25
M-26 yrs
Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15
He moved out 10-3-15
D filed 1-27-16
D final 10-27-16

Kindness, kindness, kindness.
ciluzen #2716927 11/20/16 11:45 AM
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Hi Cil, no 2x4s from me for a lengthy post about your XH....it was an interesting read I thought. Firstly I'd like to say kudos to you for spending that kind of time calmly with him. I know my sitch is different (and XH is distant in every way) but I think I would struggle to cope with that. I take my hat off to you.

Yes, as you say - he does seem a bit weird just now and displaying some classic MLC traits - exhaustion, depression, ill at ease with himself and others, self-focus and irritability. He certainly doesn't appear to be enjoying what life has to offer just now.

You know, in so many ways it is so much better to be the one who was abandoned. For us, we work through the dreadful initial crisis and we try to restore the M, then we deal with the grief, we do some rebuilding of ourselves and our lives. I do think the crisis has helped me appreciate so much of what life has to offer and that is such a gift.

Some MLCers will also go through a similar process. But if you think about it, we were forced into that unwelcome process and I suspect the same would be said of them....things have to get really rough (ie: you feel you are going completely under) in order for that kind of trauma growth to happen.

Your story about XH and the auditor resonated with me. The part about him really not wanting you to chime in. The last time I spoke to XH, he told me about some work he had done, where he came into contact with eminent people. I said something like - oh wow, that must have been really interesting.

Then he kept saying - these are Supreme Court Judges Sotto! - like I really hadn't been effusive enough. And I said - oh yes wow - what an honour...or something like that. But just weird how he really pressed his story and really pushed for a suitable scale of response from me. I recalled after that convo, he hadn't even asked a basic - how are you doing? Such is the self-focus of MLCers...

Anyway, it sounds as though you navigated what could have been a difficult event with your usual balance and grace - so well done to you.

Xx


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Sotto #2716943 11/20/16 01:56 PM
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I don't think there is anything wrong with journaling about your observations Ciluzen, it is quite interesting actually. Your first point resonated with me, I also find that my H is struggling to look at me and I get very little eye contact, and more sideways looks, maybe it's to do with guilt? Who knows, like you said I don't want to get into mind reading or guessing.

I'm glad you and your daughter had a good time smile

I hope your "thoughtful" state of mind help can continue, we learn so much through reflection...

Take care xxx


"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"

“There is freedom waiting for you,
On the breezes of the sky,
And you ask "What if I fall?"
Oh but my darling,
What if you fly?”

-Erin Hanson





Sotto #2716944 11/20/16 02:10 PM
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Hi Cil,
No worries ... sounds like a stressful afternoon which you handled beautifully. Kudos to you Cil. I would not have been able to keep my temper.

xoxoxo


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
It took me years to understand,
That this too, was a gift."
~ Mary Oliver
bttrfly #2716955 11/20/16 03:23 PM
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Hey, all! Thank you so much for stopping in. I offered virtual beer and pumpkin cheesecake to everyone over in the Surviving forum, so the offer is extended here, too.

bttrfly, it surprisingly wasn't stressful. More...interesting. I guess I'm somewhat detached at this point. And curious.

By the way, after my hike this morning, I found that I had a missed call from XH. I double-checked my phone. I haven't received an actual call from him since...a month ago? A month and a half? Anyway, I returned the call and he explained he was trying to call my D and Siri dialed me, so he tried to hang up as fast as he could. That created a funny picture in my head so I laughed and he ended up talking (me listening...learned my lesson!) for over an hour. Then he received a call and said he'd call me back. 10 min later I was on the phone for another 45 min, listening. He did ask about me a bit. It was nice, but I still feel detached, though. I've been here before. It means nothing.

Sotto, I hear you on the having to go through the rough stuff to grow. I realize from what XH was telling me today that his stuff is going to get worse...and soon. From work to his family (FOO), his R with me is actually the least of his worries. I feel I should make sure I am not a worry, just that lighthouse; that person that will accept his calls when he needs a friend.

Esame, just remember its hard for someone to not make eye contact eventually with a person who is smiling and looking at them as they talk. Especially if they are agreeing with their feelings (not necessarily their actions). I've been somewhat relentless with this. Even when XH was growling at me or refusing to acknowledge my existence.

Its a h&ll of a long uphill hike, but eventually you come back down and that is easier. I'm very fond of challenging hikes.It gets those endorphins flowing! I'm just going to keep repeating, "it gets better".


M-51 H-54
2D-27 and 25
M-26 yrs
Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15
He moved out 10-3-15
D filed 1-27-16
D final 10-27-16

Kindness, kindness, kindness.
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