I think my wife is in MLC and it seems hopeless

[SBJ]

In mid-July, my wife told me that she was no longer in love with me and had not had any desire for me for years. This has led the last few months to be extremely crappy. At first she said it was just something in her head that she needed to work on. It has since morphed into her saying that there is never any way that she'd ever be intimate with me again. I'm no saint, but I do think that I'm a pretty good catch. We have been together for 25 years/married for 22+ (College Sweethearts) and have 3 amazing kids.

I know in my heart (because she will not admit to it) that she had an EA from April to mid-July. This guy was a new family friend and she justified their friendship by telling when they spoke...I just didn't realize how much until I pulled phone records. Over the 3 months they had lunch a few times and went for coffee a few times, but always told me when she did. I didn't like it very much, but wanted to seem like I trusted her...which I did...it was him that I had reservations of. Hindsight being what it is, I'd never do that again, but I now find myself fighting for my family. She says she wants out and there is nothing I can do to change her mind. We are seeing a MC, but I think they are just divorce facilitators instead of helpers. Totally Lost...

[job]

Welcome to the MLC Forum. I'm sorry you are here, but we've got a lot of wonderful people posting here who will be happy to come by and visit w/you, i.e., support you, give advice and/or opinions, as well as just to talk about life in general. So, I'm going to paste Cadet's Welcome Posting here for you to begin some brand new homework. Read as much as you can about MLC and depression and if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask them.

Here's Cadet's Welcome Posting:
OK so that means MORE homework.

Welcome to this board.

The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy book by MWD,
Divorce Busting is also an excellent book.
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm

Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.

It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)

I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.

This POST is under reconstruction and we will be working on this as time goes by, this is the most current version.

I would start with the going dark link.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post50956

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2537289#Post2537289

Resources thread(last post only)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2592296#Post2592296

Things you should know as the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2701017#Post2701017

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Doormat Tactics
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1942444#Post1942444

Standing vs leaving
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1966340&page=1

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

Musings from AmyC
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2253741#Post2253741

MLC Signs
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2177869#Post2177869

The Final Stages Withdrawal to Acceptance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2074403&page=1

Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.

I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources.
You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.

Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!

Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.

I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.

Lets not worry about him/her. Lets work on you!
Start your homework assignments.
Something to DO while you are on moderation.
GAL.
Eat, sleep, exercise and take a deep breath.
In general take care of your self first.

Detach the single most important thing to DO.

Your H/W has given you a gift
THE GIFT OF TIME
use it wisely

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon

_________________________
Me-62, D30,S28

[SBJ]

Thanks for the warm welcome...I truly want to save my marriage, but it seems like an uphill battle. I am in need of a miracle at this point.

[ericmsant2]

Hi SBJ

I am sorry you find yourself here.

Can you tell us how long you have been in MC?

[SBJ]

Everything has been very recent. I ENT by myself once at the end of July, we've been together 3x, and each individually again last month. We are scheduled to go next week and I really want it to work, but I can't help that gut feeling that my wife has lost hope. Especially when she said that there is no way she could ever be intimate with me again. I feel that she is deflecting from her EA, but it still stings.

[j20a00g]

I'm in the same exact boat sbj.

[ericmsant2]

SBJ

but I can't help that gut feeling that my wife has lost hope.

F*ck your gut feeling! DB101 – change how you look at things. Dude, if you are going to survive this ya need to start thinking a little bit more positively. I mean chit – you’re here – she is not. I think that gives you a chance. 2) You are in MC – that is also a positive. Please dude, start to have a little hope.

Especially when she said that there is no way she could ever be intimate with me again.

Beside this statement…..what else has your wife said to you or about you…what complaints did she have about you.

What else can you tell me…are you guys still in the same house, kids….please give us some more details about YOU, your M and your current sitch.

Do you work…does she work…

I feel that she is deflecting from her EA, but it still stings.

She just may be ….let focus on YOU though.

Are you walking around all mopy and depressed?

Do you have any hobbies?

[2Lady]

I don't believe anything is hopeless. I know if you look around these forums you will see a lot of people who seem like they are drifting and lost and hopeless. Don't get sucked into following their attitudes and believing you are like them. Do you want to believe it is hopeless or do you want to believe you are the one person who can turn this around? I know that will sound harsh to some but half of what I find inspirational about going to forums like this is the thought that I'm glad I don't have it that bad!

[2Lady]

And another piece of advice, don't get sucked into posting negative things about your spouse. Yes, they may do something negative but don't try to spin it negatively, spin it with sympathy. She's going through a hard time and the best thing you can do for her is to be the best you. You want to see the good in her, the reason you want to save the marriage, so that you are inspired to be your best for her.

[pbetra]

hi SBJ
I don't need to say very much to you. Your replies have the information you will need .. BUT I just couldn't resist on reading this!
>> Especially when she said that there is no way she could ever be intimate with me again. <<

Don't buy into this too much. They say A LOT of things!! They have to - it 'fits their action plan'. This is not about making you feel good - this is about getting their way b/c they desperately need to.

I know it's VERY hurtful, but they really do 'verbally offload' on the spouse.
Next month, next year it could be something else .. . It probably would be. Please don't harp on it - concentrate on getting through your homework & following the advice.

Take care, p.

[SBJ]

We have been together for 25 years and married for 22. 20 years ago we were working in separate cities and kind of living like singles...I partied with friends and she admitted to an affair. We reconciled and then a year later we had my oldest. We have since had 2 other children and countless pets. We have the picture perfect marriage...on the outside. We just have differences of opinions as to our intimacy. I have always been Hyper-sexual and she has always, been Hypo-sexual...at least since we had kids.

Now I have a college student, a high schooler, and a elementary aged child.

The last 3 months have been a roller coaster. She started by saying that she doesn't feel that our marriage is the way it should be. She says that she feels like we are roommates and best friends, but that she doesn't feel that we have an intimate relationship. We went on a trip with some long time friends of mine and their wives and my wife said that their wives treated them differently than she does me. She went to a convention for high school students with my daughter and said that their explanation of how marriage and relationships should be didn't define ours. She has always been not very physical sexually, but now says that she wants and needs that desire, but she just doesn't want it from me.

Our counselor told me to stop calling and texting her 2 months ago, so I wait until she calls or texts me...hard since we used to do that alot.

We are still in the same house. We still sleep in the same bed. She and the counselor have set physical boundaries for me...I cannot touch her. Our only physical contact is holding hands during the Our Father at church...I can't wait each week.

6 years ago, she had a female surgery that had a 50/50 shot of sex either being good or painful...we got the painful. She would bare with it once a month for me, but that created some resentment. Sex isn't painful any longer, but she still seems to resent me and has no desire for me.

She began to work out this year and is even more smokin' hot than before...abs and all. We were working out and eating better this year and seemed, at least to me to heading in a great path. She is a rock solid 110# and I have lost 35#'s this year and am feeling better physically than I have since high school. Not bad for almost 46.

We both work for her families business...separate locations, but same company.

Hobbies...I do scouting stuff with my boys, play golf, hunt and fish, but not on a weekly basis. Our lives have been wrapped around our kids for the last 19 years. She and I attend different gyms, but I have not been able to go and enjoy it for a little while. I try and run 4-5 days a week, but I have not really been able to enjoy it. I am training for a Tough Mudder next year with a group of high school buddies...should be a blast.

Enter the EA with a relatively new family friend...April-July '16. July is also when she shut the door to me. This bastard is a mind fu@&*ing piece of $#!^. I have grown to despise him, but I feel I let the wolf into the hen house.

I have decided that no matter what has transpired, I will have the ability to forgive her. My problem is that it seems that she is getting more angry at me daily, because I am not giving in to the fact that she wants out. I am usually the guy that gives her what she asks for, but this is actually something that is worth fighting for...and it is pissing her off.

I'm the kind of guy that will give into things if they really don't make a difference to me or my life, but I'll be damned if I will be pushed around if something is super important. I take my marriage vows seriously. For better or worse...and right now it feels like we are in the storm of our lives.

[SBJ]

The one thing that I've taken from reading the posts is how the one going thru the crisis re-writes history to fit their agenda. I'm not saying that I'm the best H in the world, but I'm not chopped liver either. I'm an early rise and require less sleep than she does, so I'm always the one that gets our kids up for school and get's their lunches ready. I'm the one that brings my W coffee in bed to get her up. She and I trade household chores...she does the laundry, I grocery shop and cook (most of the time), she cleans the kitchen, I'm the one that tucks the kids into bed at night, and most of the time I tuck her into bed also.

Maybe I've bent over backwards too much in taking care of her and ignored my hopes, dreams, and needs. I don't have answers as of yet, but I just don't want to get to a place where I get upset and bitter at her. In her way of thinking we can divorce and still be good friends...I don't work that way. I'm either all in or all out.

[ericmsant2]

SBJ

We just have differences of opinions as to our intimacy. I have always been Hyper-sexual and she has always, been Hypo-sexual...at least since we had kids.

Believe it or not – the difference is appetite is more common than you think. A lot of couple struggle with it. It can be addressed though – if both people find a happy medium.

She says that she feels like we are roommates and best friends, but that she doesn't feel that we have an intimate relationship.

Do you know what she values when she says “intimate”? I suspect that what she feels is intimate may not be what you think it is.


I am going to reach out to a poster that I know – his name is ForeverYoung. I would like you to read his story. I think you may see some similarities.

Enter the EA with a relatively new family friend...April-July '16. July is also when she shut the door to me. This bastard is a mind fu@&*ing piece of $#!^. I have grown to despise him, but I feel I let the wolf into the hen house.

I get being pissed off with the dude. Right now though….let focus on making YOU the better option.

First you need to read the homework stuff that was posted on your thread. Have you?

Second – do me a favor and write down 10 goals for YOURSELF that you have. Things that can be done over the next six months.


Third – do not push her right now.

My problem is that it seems that she is getting more angry at me daily, because I am not giving in to the fact that she wants out.

When, how, what exactly happens that she angry at?

I'm not saying that I'm the best H in the world, but I'm not chopped liver either.

What are the things that are not “the best H” about you?

but I just don't want to get to a place where I get upset and bitter at her.

Remember this ^^^^^ and CHOOSE it.

[2Lady]

I have decided that no matter what has transpired, I will have the ability to forgive her. My problem is that it seems that she is getting more angry at me daily, because I am not giving in to the fact that she wants out. I am usually the guy that gives her what she asks for, but this is actually something that is worth fighting for...and it is pissing her off.

I'm the kind of guy that will give into things if they really don't make a difference to me or my life, but I'll be damned if I will be pushed around if something is super important. I take my marriage vows seriously. For better or worse...and right now it feels like we are in the storm of our lives.

Turn it around. If you didn't fight for your marriage, and you gave her what she "thinks" she wants, then would you have any chance of saving it? If somewhere down the line she changes her own opinion about the marriage, she's more likely to come back if she knows you wanted to save it than if you had given up, as she would think you gave up because YOU wanted to give up, not because it was what she wanted. And remember, she always has the right to leave you, so why is she expecting you to do it? I often feel my husband says, You can have a divorce if you want to have one in order to hear me say I don't want one. No matter how angry he seems at the time.

[ForeverYoung]

Hi SBJ, our buddy eric sent me here. I'm so sorry to hear your story... OUCH! A while back I was where you are now, so I know how tough it can be!

I have a tender spot in my heart for all the successful 20+ year relationships. No way anyone makes it that long unless they had something good going on. Definitely worth some time and effort to save and remake, right? Are you in this for the long haul?

Sorry if I missed it, but have you read DR yet? That's where you need to start.

Also, if things were good all those years until recently, in my opinion that almost points straight to MLC. More homework for you!

It sounds like you came here early in your sitch, so that's good.

Please don't pressure your W. The best shot you have with her now is letting her go. I actually told my W (while she was crying about how she wanted out of our "failed" M) that if she wanted a D I would give it to her... that was over 4 years ago and we're both still here! (and doing pretty darn good if I say so myself)

But I'm not gonna lie, there was a lot of painful moments in there. But if I can do it I know others can too.

I don't have answers as of yet, but I just don't want to get to a place where I get upset and bitter at her. In her way of thinking we can divorce and still be good friends...I don't work that way. I'm either all in or all out.

Yeah, my W's plan was to D and be best friends too. And find "True Passion" (with someone else) for once in her life. Ugh. It's quite common to hear these things and more, like this:

At bomb drop my wife told me she "knew" back on our wedding night that she made a mistake marrying me!

Yet she stayed around for 28 years (at that time) with few complaints? *scratches head* Sorry, but I called rewriting history on that one!

Here's the thing: "The place you get to" is totally up to you. This is your opportunity do be a new you and do new things. The best thing you can do for youself, your wife, and believe it or not your M, is to relax and give her time and space.

Are you off moderation yet? Keep posting, buddy.

[ForeverYoung]

Turn it around. If you didn't fight for your marriage, and you gave her what she "thinks" she wants, then would you have any chance of saving it? If somewhere down the line she changes her own opinion about the marriage, she's more likely to come back if she knows you wanted to save it than if you had given up, as she would think you gave up because YOU wanted to give up, not because it was what she wanted. And remember, she always has the right to leave you, so why is she expecting you to do it? I often feel my husband says, You can have a divorce if you want to have one in order to hear me say I don't want one. No matter how angry he seems at the time.

Hi 2Lady! The problem is the harder we try to pull them back into the M, the more they want out. We can and should let them know that it's not what we want, but if they want out they're free to go. Applying any pressure to stay is counter productive. Yes, we do "fight for our marriage" but we do so by following the DB plan.

[2Lady]

I get what you are saying. Except with my husband, it works the other way around. He says he wants a divorce or offers me one when he thinks I actually want one or thinks he can't make me happy, and what he really wants at that time is for me to talk him out of it or make him feel I am ok with everything. It's as if telling me he wants a divorce is his way of pulling ME back to him because he knows I will always try to talk him out of it.

While that may not be the case for all I think it may apply to others that they simply offer a divorce because they don't want to hurt you, not because they really want a divorce. You have to be the judge of your own situation to know what they really want to hear and whether they want a divorce or they just want to feel they can get through whatever they are going through without losing you.

[2Lady]

Just to add, if my husband wants to divorce me, he can. While the actually legal procedures take longer, under Islamic law a divorce counts as a divorce just by declaring it. It can be undone simply by taking the other person back without any formal procedures, but that still counts as a divorce. He actually divorced me once many years ago. It was some silly fight we had while eating lunch one day. Honestly I don't even remember what we fought about but he took me back the next morning. It was that small.

But it's not so small because you can only have 3 divorces and then if you want to undo them, the wife has to marry another man before you can remarry. I have told him if he does number 2, that's it, even we want to get back together I won't, because I cannot live with the uncertainty of being divorced a 3rd and final time in the heat of the moment and having no way to undo what is done. And he is more likely to do it in the heat of the moment if I even suggest to him that it is ok for him to do it if he wants. Putting my foot down puts the brakes on with him and that is what we need.

[roist]

Next month I am 21 years with my W. No M is perfect but people don't just stay together for over two decades, without some kind of bond. That bond still exists, but W has hidden it deep down. She may not feel it or even believe it is still there, but it is. Remember that.

This is just a phase and the only way out is by going through it. No shortcuts. No one knows how long this will take, but prepare yourself for it being llllooooooonnnnnnnnnggggggggg.

You need to really decide to fight, for it is a battle that will take all you have and then some more. We really are capable of digging deeper than we ever thought possible.

Many people are determined to fight for their M. That is half the battle,but how you fight is more important.This site is a great tool based on solid advice from a learned writer.

Best wishes.

[SBJ]

I actually just got back from an appointment with our MC...no matter how hard the MC tried to direct my wife into saying she was willing to try and work on our marriage...it didn't happen.

She actually said she has an appt on Thurs with an attorney just to ask information. She said that there was not way that she would ever have intimate feelings towards me again and that she never has. What a stab to the heart.

She told the MC that she doesn't see us being married in 6 months. Kind of harsh when your spouse is right next to you. I feel that she is in denial as to how difficult divorce will be...on everyone and everything involved. It's like she is not living in reality.

I ordered the DR today and should have it soon...I also signed up with the DB Coaching and had my first consultation last night. I was able to use one thing during my meeting today...I told my wife that "I do not believe that divorce is the solution to our problems, however I love you and respect you enough if that is what you choose." That was the hardest thing for me to ever say. I love my wife and would never leave her or my children...for anything.

She says that we have been best friends and have raised 3 wonderful kids...but that she feels no passion for me. She is looking for something out side of our marriage that I feel she could find with the one she already has.

We are not being physical in any way...no touching. That is a killer for me as I am a touchy guy (no pun intended). She is the most beautiful woman in the world to me, but she is losing that attractions due to the conflict we are going thru.

We have both been on a health kick since the beginning of the year, but I have slid a bit over the last 3 months...the motivation has been difficult to find. I will get myself back to the gym and continue what I started. I went from 224 to 195 so far...10# to go for my goal.

I love my wife, but the fact that she thinks that I could be friends with her after she divorces me is insane. I am either all in or all out. There is no in between. For the kids sake I hope to be able to keep myself in check during this process.

I'm not sure if it is a MLC or a WW, but I do know that the woman that I share my house with, isn't my wife at this time.

[ForeverYoung]

I actually just got back from an appointment with our MC...no matter how hard the MC tried to direct my wife into saying she was willing to try and work on our marriage...it didn't happen.

One of the DB rules when a spouse (badly) wants out of the M is No Relationship Talks, because at that point they are unlikely to help. Unless both partners are on board for working on the M, MC is not likely to help either. Actually it hurts, because it's more pressure on the spouse who is convinced they want out.

I'd seriously consider ending MC for now. And suggest giving W lots of space. Actually, that's what I did when I was in your spot because I could see where our MC sessions were leading: To D!

She said that there was not way that she would ever have intimate feelings towards me again and that she never has. What a stab to the heart.

I heard the exact same thing, this is common script. They have to rationalize leaving us. Yes, a devastating stab to the heart. But this is how she feels now and feelings can change. Your job right now is to still be around when they do! Can you do this for your M and your kids?

She says that we have been best friends and have raised 3 wonderful kids...but that she feels no passion for me.

More script that I heard too. Hard as it is, you have to try to not take it personally. You know in your heart she loved you all those years. If she is now in a life crisis, she is in tremendous pain and only looking for a way to end it.

I will get myself back to the gym and continue what I started.

Good plan. Try to focus on other activities you enjoy also.

[SBJ]

Craziness is beginning to become commonplace in my household. My wife got home after me last night and began on a rant about how crazy her sister is...this is the addict sister that my wife and their mother have enabled for the last 25 years. It was all I could do to not lose my cool while thinking, "Well that's like the pot calling the kettle black"!

She has focused all of her energy on everyone and everything else over our entire relationship that we have let our crumble and now she wants out. Kind of [censored]...

[SBJ]

ForeverYoung, I understand the need to keep myself moving (exercise and other stimulating activities), but it is hard to get motivated.

I have a strong group of men that are supporting me and standing beside me thru this...as well as a strong family support. My parents, brothers (2), one of her sisters/brother-in-law, and her father all do not understand or agree with what she is doing. My wife claims that her mother does not want us to divorce, but that she will agree with my wife if that is what makes her happy.

I heard an interesting story a while back about an old married couple and their secret to marriage success...the old man said that "We never fell out of love with the other one at the same time". I get that we change over time, but as a devoted husband, I don't get how someone that you have given 100% to could see you as disposable.

[srt]

Hi SBJ, these are the issues that they must face to fix themselves. Unfortunately without them living in a situation that life will be life if they take this terrible path, they will be unable to wake up to reality like you see it.

All you can do is continue to keep the focus on you and db. Best wishes

[2Lady]

For exercise, the key is finding something you actually enjoy doing. So not to just do it as a means to an end but for the fun of it itself. That will add some extra motivation besides just looking good for your spouse. I have taken up my favorite exercise from high school. I've been wanting to do it for a while but I had to travel overseas to get the equipment I needed so I have only been able to get back into it recently. It just happens that it coincides with my husband's MLC that I have been able to do it.

[2Lady]

I think your story about married success is probably true. There's another one I heard from a couple that had been married 40 years. They said marriage is like a rope. If both are pulling hard on it, then it can break. If you want to keep that from happening, at least one needs to give some slack to the rope. If your wife is spewing, she's pulling on the rope, so don't respond in kind.

[ForeverYoung]

For exercise, the key is finding something you actually enjoy doing. So not to just do it as a means to an end but for the fun of it itself. That will add some extra motivation besides just looking good for your spouse.

This is wise advice. For me it was TKD and bike riding.

SBJ, you will make it through this trial. Take some deep breaths. Slow down and take care of yourself. Force yourself to eat, sleep and excise properly. You need your strength to get through this. You can do this.

Go back and answer some of the questions that were asked of you.

[SBJ]

2Lady, what was the exercise??? Just curious?

I was into running 4-5 days/week and lifted weights at a gym 3 days/week. Sometimes would get on the rowing machine at the gym if I missed my cardio in the morning.

It does feel good to feel good and look good. My wife actually said something similar when this first went down. She said that it was good we were getting in better shape at the same time...when we look good we feel good, and doing it together will help our relationship. Then things changed...now due to her resentment towards me, she feels that she could never have intimate feelings towards me again...kind of [censored].

[2Lady]

Don't let her current negativity make you stop doing things that you know are positive and viewed positively by her when she is in a good state. Do what she had a positive opinion about before because that's the wife that you will win back, not the current one. Hopefully, she will come back to her senses but at least she gave you a clue what is important to her when she still had them.

[SBJ]

I want her back more than anything...it just seems that she has set her mind. I don't know if it is MLC or WW, but she seems to have re-written our relationship, unless that is truly how she views it. Just friendship, no love or passion ever...I call BS! I think that she is saying things to get me angry so that I will lose my cool and agree to a divorce.

She is a hard headed woman...I both love and hate that about her!!!

[2Lady]

I see similarities between my situation and yours in some ways, although the end game for me is somewhat different (read my thread). However, she may very well be trying to make you angry and end it yourself, because she feels guilty doing it to you (which means she cares about you). In my case, my husband sometimes says I can have a divorce if I want, not because he necessarily wants one, but I think he needs to hear me say I don't want one as otherwise he feels guilty about what he is doing (which means he cares). I think they are actually feeling a lot of anger at their own feelings but they take it out on us. Remember the saying, "Don't believe anything they say." I try to look at the things he says and see if there is another reason he might be saying it other than taking it at face value, and sometimes it actually makes more sense that way.

Focus on the positives she has said about you-that you are her best friend, that she is happy you are working out. Keep these things up. Yes, you want all or nothing, in or out, that's totally understandable. But I think it is better for the time being to say I'll accept less than all as long as we are still married, but if it ends in divorce then it's nothing. That gives her the space to work on what she needs to work on but at least lets her know the serious consequences of ending it.

[SBJ]

I will be out of pocket for a few days. She will have our youngest two kids thru Sunday. While gone she is going to see an attorney for an informational meeting. It's scary how fast things are moving...she keeps saying that she wants out and there is nothing I can do to change her mind. I'm praying for a miracle.

Both of her parents have called me saying that I'm a son to them and that they do not want us to divorce, but that it isn't up to them. Talk about a kick in the...

[peacetoday]

Hi

Sorry for your pain, I know how hard this is..It gets easier

Continue to take care of yourself..I think it helped me a lot in the beginning to just be there for my MLCER..like friends..Its hard, but I needed to do that for us- to see if it could be restored

The crises is hard because it is so sudden, and they do such a big switch from who they were..hard to understand, but because many of them seem to say the same things, we see patterns; we can see it is a crises and it follows a path

B4 they can recover, they need to get swept away..into replay..
This is where they seem so crazy and say all things to get out of the M
irresponsible behavior, spending, addictions, affairs

Many leave, some return, yes we want them so much to stay and snap out but..they can't ,,,I heard others say its like being swept out to sea

It is not your fault..If it is a crises, it is hers ,
unfinished childhood issues may lead to MLC
We can't fix them..only they can..many of them choose not to fix themselves instead they decide to play for a while..

We can support them as they go through everything they must
We can create a new life, as we let them travel their road..being kind, cordial and caring
At the same time, taking care of ourselves , the kids and our assets
watching the spending and credit card bills-many of them spend far behind their means and have no sense for responsibility, even though they were financially responsible b4

Hard yes...but we get the benefit in the end and she may return...
but it is on her timetable and in the mean time..we move forward, grieving, letting go and creating a stable environment for the kids and ourselves

[SBJ]

So I backslid over the weekend and had a talk with my wife's step father. She found out and is now totally pissed off. She also tells me yesterday that we are done and there is nothing I can do to change that. She also let me know that she filled out the paperwork, but hasn't filed it. I am totally spent and don't know what to do. She is trying to put an end to our family, an end to our friendship, and an end to our lives as we know it. How someone can throw away 25 years is beyond me. She and my kids are my world and next to God there is nothing that I put above them.

She feels that we are thru. Still using the words like...we have always been dysfunctional, we have just been best friends and haven't really been in love, and that she doesn't want to live like roommates anymore. She's trying to include my feelings in her feelings. She is trying to discount and dispose of my feelings and thoughts.

How do you stay and fight for someone that clearly is over you and your marriage? How long do you put up with rejection? Does it show a lack of self esteem to try to save your marriage if your spouse wants out? When do you do or should you accept defeat? I'm not groveling to her, but have stated that I'm not leaving her and I'd never leave my family. She wants me to agree with her so that we can have a friendly and amicable divorce. I told her that divorce means an end to our friendship. I cannot deal with watching her build a life with someone other than myself. Nor do I want another man raising my kids still at home.

Lost today...feels like she opened the wound again. Hurts.

[job]

The questions that you are asking are ones that only you can answer...however, since you are asking them, I would venture to say that you aren't ready to toss in the towel and walk away completely. So, pick yourself up, dust yourself off and continue moving forward.

Leave your wife alone as much as possible. Give her the time and space she needs and respect her wishes if she wants this time and space. No more relationship talks for now. You can't control how she feels or how she perceives things at the moment, just as she can't control yours. The best thing you can do is live your life as if she may not return. What does this mean? It means you get up each and every day and go to work, find hobbies and projects that interest you or finish the ones that you've started, spend time w/your family and do the normal things that you would do in the evening. It doesn't mean go out and date, but you can go out w/your friends and have some male bonding time.

The more time and space you give her, the better. It will allow her time to think about things and actually begin to wonder what you are doing. She even may become curious, but you've got to have faith that the system works.

One thing...don't bring up the topic of divorce. If she raises the subject say something like "I'm sorry you feel that way and I know that I can't stop you from filing for divorce, but I do not want one." They all tend to want to be friends after a divorce, but they don't realize that a divorce can, in many cases, sever the ties that once were there. It's a fantasy to them and they think we all will live happily ever after.

I'm sorry that your weekend turned out this way, but it's a new day and one that you will need to put your focus on your work and your life for now. Leave her in God's hands for a while. Keep the focus on you and your family.

[SBJ]

I feel like the weekend didn't end as I didn't sleep last night. I'm going to call my DB coach today and seek guideance from them. No matter what she does I love my wife completely.

I am sorry she feels that way and I do not want a divorce. That is also something that my family and extended family know.

[job]

Definitely contact your DB Coach and has a chat w/him/her.

I know you love your wife completely, but you've got to give her some space and time to come to realize that you aren't the enemy here and that you aren't the issue of her unhappiness.

If you push, she's going to pull away and run faster than heck to get away from you and yes, this will be more justification for why she wants a divorce. Has she said anything to you about being controlling and/or manipulative, under appreciated or you don't listen?

Your wife knows that you love her very much and you don't need to remind her of it. She knows! So does everyone else! Drop the rope because you are holding on to it too tightly. Have faith in yourself, your history w/your wife and in the man above. Keep the focus on you and your family!

[SBJ]

job...she has said over the last few months in our MC that I was controlling and that because we had sex that resulted in pain for her (due to a surgery) that I abused her. She is holding onto that and saying that due to the abuse she will never be able to be intimate with me again. The funny thing is that our MC told me that she (the MC) said that I controlled the sexual part of our marriage...not that I was controlling. My wife took the the word and let it work in her narrative.

I spent the past weekend on a men's retreat trying to bring 32 awesome men to a closer relationship with God...all while feeling that my world was crumbling. We began on Thursday at the same time she was meeting with her attorney and she told me yesterday that she has filled out the paperwork, but not filed it yet. How cold can you be? I can feel my heart hardening towards her and I don't like it one bit. She seems to be done.

She says she is and acts as she is this wonderful Catholic woman, yet she has not regards for the sanctity of Marriage.

She seems to be following right in her mothers footsteps. It is kind of depressing. Her father tried to fight for his Marriage, but she was done. I just thought that she and I would break the cycle of divorce in our families. My mother divorced my father in the 70's as well...she says he tried to save it, but she was adamant about leaving. I guess with the patterns of divorce...I really need to fight so that my two boys will see a man fight for his family, but I should also show and teach my daughter that a man and a woman should do whatever it takes to make their marriage work. I'm more scared for her than the boys at this point. She is seeing her mother say that it is OK to just walk out of a marriage...and that is not OK with me.

[job]

You can stand for your marriage, but at this time, you need to let her go. You can't control her, but you can control the way you are reacting to her comments and behavior.

I'm not surprised that she took what the MC told you about "control" and turned it around to her way of thinking. They do that. They hear what they want to hear when they are depressed and in crisis. That's why it's important to step back and allow them to figure things out for themselves. You didn't break her, therefore you can't fix her. No matter how hard you try to reason w/her, it's not going to get thru to her right now. She's operating on pure emotions and when someone is emotional and in pain, they are going to shut out those who speak in a rational tone. That's why it's important to allow her to make her own mistakes and learn to face the consequences of her actions.

You can fight for your marriage, but you need to do it from afar. We all contribute to the downfalls of our relationships. It's 50/50...what have you done to work on yourself? The more you work on yourself and are happy w/the person you are, the more she will see and/or sense the person you were/are that she fell in love with. Any changes that you make, have to become permanent and you must be happy w/them. What are you doing w/your free time? Do you have hobbies or projects that you need to complete or start? If so, start doing them. It will help take your mind off of what she's doing and/or not doing.

Right now, you are the "authority" figure in her life and she's rebelling againt you and everything you stand for. You can't convince her otherwise. That's why it's important to give her space. The more you try to reason w/her, the longer her crisis will be because she's not focusing on what she needs to do to get thru it.

You have to understand that she is going to do whatever it takes to soothe the emotional/internal pain that she is in. You can't see the wounds/bruises, but they are there. Dig deeper for patience and compassion. You have absolutely no idea what she's feeling inside and you do not want to walk a mile in her shoes right now. Again, give her space.

She may appear to be following in her mother's footsteps, but you can't compare her to others because she is unique in her own way. Trust in yourself, have faith in yourself and in God. He is the only one that can heal her. Leave the MLC bus driving to God.

Keep the focus on you and your family.

[2Lady]

You need to read ForeverYoung's posts. His wife said similar things about him and they got through it.

Although honestly, I think she is being totally unfair in calling you an abuser and I felt that about FY's wife too. It's a shame that the counselor is feeding into that narrative. She knows you love her and it's irrational to think that a husband who loves you is abusing you but there is this whole cultural concept of "marital rape" etc. that I think some women get sucked into and it only winds up hurting themselves. Before anyone jumps on me about this, I'm a woman myself and actually can relate somewhat to his wife's situation but that is part of the reason I think she is being completely unfair. But everyone will tell her otherwise and there's probably nothing you can do about it.

[msp710]

Hang in there brother. I'm about a month into this and I see many familiar things in your story.

You just have to be patient. I find that to be the hardest part. We want answers now but unfortunately they're not coming right now.

One piece of advise that I received almost immediately from this board is that you need to slow her down and not help her with process of divorcing you. My wife told me she didn't love me and wanted a divorce yet she had no idea where and how she would live without me. I think she thought I would help her with all of this.

Draw a line and tell her you've been blindsided and you haven't been able to process this. Then detach. Focus on yourself and your children.

I know how hard this is. I feel it too. My mind goes from loving her and wanting her to change her mind to thinking she's right and she's doing both of us a favor. The one thing everyone keeps saying is "patience". I'm trying. I think you need some too.

[SBJ]

job...she filled out the papers Thursday, but did not file them. She says that she wants us to agree on everything.

She sends me an email today saying she is sad that I'm hurting and she is the one causing it. She said that just because she wants a D doesn't change the fact that she cares about me.

She says that we should be mature about the D so that we save $$$ and the kids see us handle this smartly.

Why is this so easy for her?

Why am I not good enough for the one that I have given 25 years to?

Do you detach to ease your pain or to let the spouse see what they are missing.

After reading her email, and not responding, I opened a package on my desk with my copy of DR. I will start reading it today.

[job]

I think you need to have your lawyer look those papers over when she gives them to you. Do not agree to anything until a lawyer has reviewed them.

Right now, all she's thinking about is herself. Lip service isn't going to make you feel any better. Most people would attempt to repair any issues in the marriage before deciding on a divorce. But, then again, she's not thinking like most people at the moment. It's all about her and what she wants.

Why is it so easy for her? Because she emotionally detached from the marriage a year or so ago. You, unfortunately, were just slammed hard w/the BD and the divorce talk. You've not had time to catch up to where she's at in detachment.

SBJ, it's not about whether you are good enough or not, it's about what she needs to do and that is go back to her past and figure things out and grow up. Those painful feelings of hers have been stuffed down very low in her soul for many years and now they've come bubbling up. The love she has for you has now taken the place deep within her soul until she completes her journey. It's not you...it's her.

Your journey is also one of self discovery and learning more about yourself. Are there issues that you think need to be worked on? If so, make a list and start working on them. However, do them for YOU and not to win her back.

Detaching is for you and it's not a ploy to make her miss you. It's to help you to not engage in her drama and give her space. It is to help you develop emotional detachment in order to retain your personal, physical, emotional and spiritual health.

As for the pain, you have to work thru that. There is no easy way around it, but thru it. What is happening is you are in the early stages of grieving the loss of the marriage. It will take time because the wound is still very raw. It's one step at a time and then one day at a time and there will be times when it's one step forward and two steps back. But you pick yourself up, dust yourself off and continue to move forward while leaving the door ajar.

Here is a thread on detachment. Read it. It explains what detachment is all about:

Detachment

I would also suggest that you read HaWho's postings. Her h is living at home and she's learned the art of detachment. Even still, she has ups and downs on the rollercoaster when her h throws some curve balls.

[ForeverYoung]

SBJ, slow down and take some deep breaths.

Don’t try to convince your wife to work on the M.

Don’t talk to her family about it… Avoid all relationship talks.

Have you ended the MC?

Your wife wants to be friends, so just be her friend. Don’t expect anything more right now.

You have to keep up the PMA (positive mental attitude) and fake it ‘til you make it. Tough stuff I know, but you can do it. You HAVE to.

[SBJ]

Guys the problem is that she doesn't want to be friends right now, nor to be married to me anymore. She has filled in the paperwork and wants me to agree that we have been good friends for 25 years, but that our marriage has been dysfunctional.

I told her that D would be an end to our family and to our friendship...she seems to think that we can be divorced and be best friends...don't know if I'm wired like that.

I do not want a D. I cannot in good conscience tell my kids that. I cannot tell her that. I cannot tell myself that. That would all be a lie.

I understand that she is in a confused state, but that doesn't change how I feel.

Should I not go back to MC with her? We have an appt on Thursday...

How do you tell the woman you love that you are bowing out of your marriage to give them space and let them find themselves. What if that door that you left ajar happens to close...from either side?

[CaliGuy]

SBJ

Just catching up on your sitch ..... I could have written much of it 3 years ago. My wife accused me of much of the same, did not want to be friends, it was over and I just had to accept it as she went on with her A ... Catholic like yours and received Eucharist despite being adulterous.

This will be the hardest thing you will ever do, just know that. But also know you will become a better man because of it all. Listen to job and FY, along with the vets here. The sitches are different but much of the advice is the same and you can learn by reading and getting a better grip of MLC on the hows and whys ... first thing to accept is she is in crissi, not your fault but currently she is blaming you for everything as you are the obstacle in her mind to her getting to true happiness (again a myth but one they hold onto for some time)

Mine also thought we would be D and best friends ... they have this all planned out what life will be like after D, reality has a different look but the fog does not allow them to see that.

My advice to you ... like FY said ... BREATHE. You need to slowly start detaching from the sitch, when she brings up D in a most unemotional way reply "I am sorry you feel that way, D is not what I want" and walk .... buy a spew jacket because you will need it .. I had to get 2. Put it on and sip your STFU smoothie and let her yell and holler herself tired and simply walk away.

Just know you will not fix this, nothing you say or do will be the magic fix or the end to it all, they need time to get through their crisis and all you can do is focus on yourself and your kids

[SBJ]

I understand the need to breath and slow down,but she's trying to do a world record pace D. Just had a R talk that ended poorly. It's all my fault because I was selfish sexually when she was hurting years ago.

She is saying we should use the same attorney so we can save $$$. It's like she is only worried about the cost and how she'd look in a messy D. How sad.

How long does detachment take and how long to feel better. The more she talks the less I feel like we can save this thing we call a M. She is just so cold to me and its like she's trading me in for something else. She still claims there's no one else, but I worry. I don't want her hurt or my children hurt.

[ForeverYoung]

Should I not go back to MC with her? We have an appt on Thursday...

The DB rule is to do what works. Do you feel the MC is helping your M at this point? (note: this is not the same as "are you hoping it will")

If your sessions are filled with her explaining why the marriage is not salvageable, and why she's triple done, then does it seem like focusing on that is going to help?

There's a reason DB teaches us to avoid relationship talks! They can make things worse.

Usually when a spouse wants out badly, MC (if they go) is just a way for them to say they "tried".

Look, D doesn't happen overnight. It's going to take time for her to jump through all the hoops. It's also going to take time for her feelings for you to change, but they can change. (they already changed once, right?)

You need to buy as much time as you can right now.

Follow Cali's advice and stay out of her way when she is spewing. What ever you do, don't argue with her! You have to be the calm, strong, steady person right now. I know it seems hopeless at the moment, but soon you will be doing better.

Where are you in DR?

[SBJ]

So do I just not show up for the MC or do I tell her that I'm not going?

She says that she's worked in our M by working on herself...which means discovering that she wants out.

After hearing her last night it's hard to believe we are here right now.

As stated in your Tag Line..,She's still worth it , but damn this is hard.

[Delboy]

Hi SBJ, I’ve been rummaging thru my computer and I came across the following copies of letters that Liz (my Ex) wrote and sent to our kids a week after she left us. I have put down their ages at the time of these letters.
My additions are in brackets.

I hope this will help in trying to understand what’s going thru some ones head during a MLC.

Love
Delboy


Mon 2nd Feb 2004

To my darling Louise (Aged 17),
I apologise for my behaviour towards you over the past weeks. I know that I have been very selfish with what I have done and for the way that I left home last week. Dad (Delboy) gave me a letter that said I had damaged our relationship I can understand why.

I will try and explain, a couple of years ago my feelings changed towards your dad, I felt that we didn’t have anything in common, I gave up trying, about a year ago I got involved with Nic, he would cheer me up and make me feel a lot better. I know that it was wrong. But by this time I had fallen for him, I did not mean to break a family up.

I have been thinking of you, sorry that I haven’t been in contact but I was afraid you wouldn’t speak to me.

Love U always Mum

I will write again or if I have the courage send you a text or even phone. I hope that you are well I miss you a lot

Love you.
From Mum
X




Mon 2nd Feb 2004
To my darling Ann (Aged 19),
I apologise for my behaviour towards you over the past weeks. I have been selfish? With what I done and for leaving home the way that I did. I had a letter off Dad (Delboy) saying that I’d damaged our relationship and to explain why I’ve done all this.

I will try, I felt that me and your Dad had nothing in common after all these years, I got fed up, I think it started after we lost money (Delboy’s business failures). I don’t mean to blame anyone but these things happen, about a year ago I became fond of Nic he would cheer me up. And I would turn to him, I know that it was wrong, but I couldn’t help it.

I just want to say that I am so proud of you. You are everything that I am not.
I am sorry that I have not been in contact with you but I was afraid that you would not speak to me after all that I have done.
I really miss you I am always thinking of you, I love you very much, hope you are well. I well text U or call you soon.

Take care of yourself
Lots of Love Mum
X





Mon 2nd Feb 2004
My darling Dawn (Aged 13),
I just want you to know that I am sorry for what I have done. I know that you didn’t understand my behaviour when I was home the last time, because I saw the way you looked at me.

I would not talk with your Dad about how I felt, that is why I drifted apart from him. I want to say that I miss you a lot and love you. I am always thinking of you and hopefully soon I will be able to talk to you.

All My Love
Mum X

P.S. I will understand if you don’t want to speak to me. I will always be your Mum no matter what!

[ForeverYoung]

So do I just not show up for the MC or do I tell her that I'm not going?

No, you absolutely don’t “just not show up”!

You have to tell her if you are the one deciding to end MC. Maybe say something like you’re not sure it’s helpful right now, and/or that you feel it’s best you both just take a little break.

She said she’s working on herself, you need to do so also.

[SBJ]

The reason I ask is that she is using the MC as a Divorce Facilitator. Getting advice on how best to tell our children that we are divorcing. This is killing me. I cannot believe that she can be so calm about all of this.

Her mother even called me saying that just because things aren't working our between us that I am still welcome to come on vacation with the entire family over the Thanksgiving Break. I'm torn...we haven't told our children...yet. And if we don't by then, should I go out of obligation to my kids?

My W and her mother seem to think that after a D we will all still be one cozy family. I have told them that D will end our M and our friendship. My W said that families don't end...they just get restructured. What a crock.

[ForeverYoung]

I'd be inclined to not go to any D facilitating sessions, even if not going may make things worse for a short time.

Even if you go doesn't mean you have to agree with a D. I hope others with more experience will chime in on this.

Regarding vacation, part of the DB is "acting as if". So you act like normal and do as you would have normally done... go on the trip with your kids and have fun.

Also hold off on telling them anything.

[SBJ]

She called me out again last night and said that she will never be able to get over the fact that when sex was painful after her surgery that I still had sex with her. She says she feels that I abused her and will never be able to be intimate with me again because of it.

I told her that I am truly sorry, but didn't really understand the depth of the discomfort back then and she would simply tell me that we could. Had she told me that she would cut it off if I tried again, then I think I would have understood the depth. We could have then talked about a game plan to pray together and get thru it together.

Eventually the pain and discomfort stopped, but now she has built up this resentment towards me that seems unending.

[SBJ]

ForeverYoung...seems like she is now wanting to rush things along. I don't know what the rush is about...we've got 25 years under our belt, what's the rush?

As for the "As if" attitude...she has that. She says she compartmentalizes everything. She has put me and our M in a nice little box that she only has to open when she feels like dealing with me...what BS. She is taking her advice from someone that is obviously telling her that she should do what makes her happy, regardless of what it does to me or our kids. She is not listening to her family that is telling her their thoughts from a Biblical viewpoint.

She even asked me last night if I thought she should just stay in our M and live like this...my answer was yes to stay in the M, but not living like this. After that she just left the room and went to bed. I joined her much later.

It is still killing me not to be able to have physical contact of any kind. I am also the touch guy from the 5LL's book, along with positive praise. Unfortunately, she is not one to give either and never really has.

[ForeverYoung]

Of course she's in a rush, she's in great pain and thinks D is the answer. She has to figure things out for herself, you and the families can't do it for her.

Give her lots of time and space. You can even tell her you are doing this. (I did)

I know it's tough but you gotta back off and do your own thing. It really will make things better for everyone.

[CaliGuy]

SBJ

The rush comes from you .... I know its hard to understanding but in DB there is a blip about how this all seems counter-intuitive. She is calm which has you on your heels, you are splashin around desperately wanting to do anything and everything to save your M and this is only going to make her run faster and in her mind validate she was right in wanting out all along.

You asked earlier how long the detach process takes .. its different for everyone, I am one of the ones who struggled with this but over time, I realized grabbing that hot pot on the stove was only hurting me so I slowly stopped grabbing it, then I slowly started not being as concerned about it and had a breaking point where I just walked out of the kitchen.

Standing is a very difficult thing to do, doing so with a MLCr is even harder. Waiting around for her to change her mind is not going to get you through this you have to start looking inward more, work on yourself and slowly put things into place the way you see fit allowing your W to walk her own journey. Accept she is broken and you can not fix her, you can not help fix her ... you can only become a better man from all of this.

[Mach1]

ForeverYoung...seems like she is now wanting to rush things along. I don't know what the rush is about...we've got 25 years under our belt, what's the rush?

In the MLC mind, the sooner the Divorce is over, the sooner their pain will end...

YOU are the reason for her emotional struggles...get used to it...

Doesn't make it true or real...that is just her point of view...

The sooner you are gone, the sooner she will not feel like she does..

As for the "As if" attitude...she has that. She says she compartmentalizes everything. She has put me and our M in a nice little box that she only has to open when she feels like dealing with me...what BS. She is taking her advice from someone that is obviously telling her that she should do what makes her happy, regardless of what it does to me or our kids. She is not listening to her family that is telling her their thoughts from a Biblical viewpoint.

Acting "as if" , is for you...

Nobody....friend, family, parent, bigfoot, nor the Pope, is going to tell her what to do anymore...

In her MLC mind, she has been controlled her entire life...

And no more, will she be controlled by anyone....

Once again, doesn't make it true...just her POV...

The more people try to tell her things like that, the more she will push away from them....family included...

She even asked me last night if I thought she should just stay in our M and live like this...my answer was yes to stay in the M, but not living like this. After that she just left the room and went to bed. I joined her much later.

Yea, guilt isn't gonna get you too far right now...

Now that you have told her, you don't have to again. She knows where you stand....

It is still killing me not to be able to have physical contact of any kind. I am also the touch guy from the 5LL's book, along with positive praise. Unfortunately, she is not one to give either and never really has.

I haven't met or posted to a male LBS yet, that after a few months, hasn't declared that PT wasn't his LL....

I also have always said that the 5LL book should be read more than once...

First time is more of a "how I F'ed this up" manual...

Second time, it becomes more about yourself ( which is what it should be)...

So maybe give it another read when you have a chance...

And for most guys....PT will always be high on the list, especially if you aren't having sex...

Which, BTW, IF she is MLC, you aren't...

[SBJ]

Thank you guys for the quick responses. I understand that she is in pain, but I am willing to do what it takes. She is worth it and my kids are worth it.

Just finished Ch. 1 of DR and am calling the DB Coach to set a call today. It all does feel 180 because it is 180.

I liked one of Michele's videos that said that the LBH will either make the W a better H should she stay, or will make someone else down the line a great H because of all of the work they have put in. I feel like Cliff Claven from "Cheers"...I feel like a wealth of useless information right now. However, I'm trying to learn.

[SBJ]

The W just called me at the office asking if there is any reason I would fight her in court. Saying that we should agree on everything. She said that we should spare our kids a lengthy and nasty court battle. She said that if I don't drag her name thru the mud that she wouldn't have to tell everyone about what I did to her after she had her surgery. What an unveiled threat. She also said that her attorney would contact her once the papers are finished and that I could look at them at that time.

It is crazy to me how someone, even going thru a MLC, could just throw it all away. She kept using the reasons that I listed before such as the lack of intimacy, the lack of hand holding, etc. All things that I have tried to keep alive during our relationship (25 yrs), only to have her not want at the time. Now she wants it just not with me...stab!

[MrBond]

As hard as it is, it's going to get worse.

When she says stuff like this... "Saying that we should agree on everything. ", tell her that while you respect her opinion, she can't tell you what to do.

When my sitch first started, my W told me I had to move out because she was unhappy. I laughed at her and told her that if SHE was the one who was unhappy, then she should move out because I was perfectly happy at home. That's when you start taking a stand and they start seeing that you're not going to do everything they want you to.

[SBJ]

It seems like she just keeps baiting me into conversations to try and get me to agree with her. I keep telling her that she knows my opinion. Her answer is always that we will agree to disagree.

What a roller coaster of a few days. I came home Sunday on a high note and then she knocked me down about the papers. I'm still trying to get into the DR book and stay positive about saving our M and she slams me again on the phone.

A friend told me last night that even though I want to save my M I should go into the mode of acceptance and that it is in her corner. Sounds alot like advice from here.

It is just hard for me to detach. Everything I've done for 25 years has been for her...kind of hard to flip the switch.

[tadpole1025]

Hey there. Get used to the ups and downs or "rollercoaster." There will be more.

I too was married 25 years (officially 26) and did everything for her.

Detaching is the hardest part I think. Like Yoda says, "You must train yourself to let go of everything you are afraid to lose."

My XW even told me once "We can be together someday....just not right now."

WTF right?

The sooner you let go, the better you'll be. I was "stuck" for a very long time. I know it's not easy, but LET HER GO. Letting her go is really the only way to possibly get her back...if that's what you want.

Just my two cents.

Tad

[SBJ]

tadpole1025...I know that is what I need to do, but I don't know how to turn off the switch.

She just called asking if I was going to dinner tonight with her family for a brothers b-day. Part of me wanted to say I had plans, but as ForeverYoung says just go as "whatever". I have to eat, but I also want her to see that I can be strong enough to show up with her entire family that knows what is going on. I think she was expecting me to say no.

[CaliGuy]

tadpole1025...I know that is what I need to do, but I don't know how to turn off the switch.

She just called asking if I was going to dinner tonight with her family for a brothers b-day. Part of me wanted to say I had plans, but as ForeverYoung says just go as "whatever". I have to eat, but I also want her to see that I can be strong enough to show up with her entire family that knows what is going on. I think she was expecting me to say no.

You start by accepting you have been fired as her husband. If you choose to stand that's fine but you do not go into the office and look for emails nor continue to do the work you once were getting paid for ... IMO this includes putting up the front that you are married for her family.
You have to find activities that keep you busy, help rebuild your self esteem and confidence ... working out, going for a run/ride .. whatever .. things that are constructive and make you feel better afterwards.

[SBJ]

I guess the acceptance that I've been fired has to come before the detachment. I'm new at this and really do want to save my family, but she is already more than half way out the door.

[CaliGuy]

I guess the acceptance that I've been fired has to come before the detachment. I'm new at this and really do want to save my family, but she is already more than half way out the door.

Read the homework. I get you are reeling here ... been there, don't that, have the T-shirt. You can not save the M at this moment, the best you can do is hold up your end of the deal and she will do what she will do, that's on her, her choice and nothing you can control. She will make many poor choices while in crisis just know this and expect nothing.

The common thing in this is FEAR, that is what you need to tackle first... its the gateway to acceptance and detachment. You are afraid and that's completely normal. Do not allow fear to keep you stuck for long ... sometimes it will transform into anger and you can use that to propel you towards acceptance and detachment, just do not live there.

[ericmsant2]

SBJ
BREATH brother…breath.

I mean it….it is obvious that you are totally freaking out. Understandable.
You are reeling and this is going to help your sitch.

I understand that she is in pain,

Do you? If you are not in crisis…how can you. Think about it. You THINK you know what she feel. It really is impossible to.

but I am willing to do what it takes.

I think you really mean you are willing to do what it takes….. on YOUR schedule, on YOUR timeline and on YOUR terms.
Are you willing to leave her alone?

Are you willing to accept that she is in lala land?

Are you willing to accept that she did not ask for this crisis – nor did you. It is NOT YOUR fault that she has flipped out.

Are you willing to accept that right NOW SHE wants OUT and NEEDS space and that RIGHT NOW…those are HER terms? How willing are you to RESPECT her wishes – even if those wishes do not align with what YOU want RIGHT now?
I ask because….according to YOU….(your quote below)

She is worth it and my kids are worth it.

If she is worth it….then right now YOU need to let go and let God.
As Mr Bond said….chances are It will get worse before it get better.

It seems like she just keeps baiting me into conversations to try and get me to agree with her.

She can bait all she wants. You can control yourself – right?

Look dude, a simple, I am not really ready to discuss this right now. Is all you need to say. I would NOT agree to anything nor would I disagree. It is simple – you are not ready to discuss. Period. If pushed, then she can do what she feels she needs to do.
She is probably going to continue to push. How you respond will be key. You try and convince or her pull her closer – she will continue to push and pull further.
Bottom line – you say you do not want the divorce. She has heard it – multiple times from you. You do not need to repeat it anymore.
Everyone here has said to detach. Start doing it. It will take time. The faster you detach – the better off you will be.


I think someone else already told you that this will be the hardest thing you DO. It will.

“For better or for worse”

“in sickness and in health”

Remember those up there ^^^^

…..well now it time for YOU to decide IF and for HOW long YOU choose to live these words.

Can you stand when she needs she but is unable to tell you that?

Can you stand when she is batchit crazy and screaming that she wants out?

Can you stand by her while try to figure this out on HER OWN?

Can you stand when all seems hopeless?

Can you stand….not knowing what will happen?

Can you have faith that this is in God hands – not YOURS?

Cause…if I recall…. You said she was worth it.

You will become one hell of man – if you want to.

There is no timeline and no magic pill.

Coach, vets, books….nothing can ensure the outcome.

I’ll leave you with this…….

Do you want to know for YOUR self…that you gave it everything you had and even when you no more…you gave it another day…another week…. Do you want to be able to say to her….

I love you and gave it everything I had

Cause one day buddy……she just may thank you for standing next to her while she was in the darkest moment of her life.

[peacetoday]

SBJ

You are getting some awesome advice and support here

a few things that may help you to get in more alignment to detach and let go

Alanon is a 12 step program and many of the meetings revolve around letting the alcoholic be..detaching and taking care of yourself-accepting things as they are

I know your Wife is in MLC and not alcoholic but it is similar

Meetings are free ..and it helps to read about detaching and letting go
there are lots of books and internet material on letting go..
but reading it daily helps to get in that mindset

Melanie Beattie is a great writer ob this subject
The language of letting go is an awesome book
its a daily reader on one topic -only one page a day
it really helps

[SBJ]

No offense, but I'm already one hell of a man, but I'm willing and able to become even better.

I am praying, reading, exercising, working harder, loving my kids harder, and I will do my homework to begin the detachment process.

Thanks for the TOUGH LOVE!!!

[MrBond]

" seems like she just keeps baiting me into conversations to try and get me to agree with her. "

I don't see any "baiting". That's more blameshifting on your part. As if you don't have control over your situation. You do. Do what you feel is right.

[SBJ]

MrBond...the problem right now is that I don't know what is right. Right to me would be to console her when she hurts, to talk about what's bothering her, to discuss how to work things out, but as you know, she wants none of that from me.

So the answers lie in DR I hope. They lie in turning 180. They lie in bettering myself so that I can handle it no matter the outcome. I understand that these are what I need to do. I want this to work. It is the detaching from her that is difficult, but as it was said earlier..,she has fired me from being her husband.

[Sotto]

When you think of detaching (and it is difficult) - it may be best to think more of attaching to your own life. Yes, you are fired as her spouse just now - and so are left to your own devices. I see many people desperately trying to 'detach from him/her' which makes the WAS central in that process and it remains all about them.

However, if you think about re-attaching to your own life, that is more about you and the things you are going to be doing going forwards. New activities, old friends you may reconnect with, places you are going to go, things you will learn, new friends you may make.

Inevitably, if you invest time and energy in doing some new things, she becomes less central in your life. Because you have a life that is separate to her, and that you hopefully enjoy...and who knows, she may want to join in the fun at some future point...

Hope this helps a little :-)

[Ginger1]

MrBond...the problem right now is that I don't know what is right. Right to me would be to console her when she hurts, to talk about what's bothering her, to discuss how to work things out, but as you know, she wants none of that from me.

So the answers lie in DR I hope. They lie in turning 180. They lie in bettering myself so that I can handle it no matter the outcome. I understand that these are what I need to do. I want this to work. It is the detaching from her that is difficult, but as it was said earlier..,she has fired me from being her husband.

If those aren't what she wants from you, then it's not what's right. Those actions right now would be for you, not her.

[SBJ]

Sotto...I have given some thought to that. There are hobbies that I have put aside and things on "MY" Bucket List that I have wanted to do.

She complains that she and I have never traveled together...I never knew she wanted to travel (bad communication), but I love to explore new places. There are places to go and see that I will look into.

I enjoy the outdoors (golf/hunting/fishing/kayaking/camping) that I now only do when my brothers/father call...I need to be more proactive and do them for myself.

I decided to start training for Tough Mudder 2017...excited!!! I'm teaming up with some friends from high school.

I bought a guitar right before my oldest was born (1997) with good intentions of learning...now is the time. I'm not saying I can become Eric Clapton, but I will give it a shot. I might even take up my saxophone again. It's been in moth balls since the early 90's.

[SBJ]

Ginger1...I agree that it isn't what she wants right now, but it is hard to change my ways. As a product of the 70's I remember alot of Star Wars quotes...

1. as told to Luke you must “unlearn what you have learned”.

2. also told to Luke you “Do. Or do not. There is no try.”

I know it is cheesy motivation, but whatever works.

I love my wife and I will do what it takes!!!

She is worth it and so is our family...

[Ginger1]

Ginger1...I agree that it isn't what she wants right now, but it is hard to change my ways. As a product of the 70's I remember alot of Star Wars quotes...

1. as told to Luke you must “unlearn what you have learned”.

2. also told to Luke you “Do. Or do not. There is no try.”

I know it is cheesy motivation, but whatever works.

I love my wife and I will do what it takes!!!

She is worth it and so is our family...

Of course it's hard to change our ways when we have been doing something for one way for so long. That's why you need to ask yourself these questions. No one said it's easy!

I sense a lot of love for your wife of family. It's great you did so much for your wife. Do you feel perhaps you might have been a bit codependent? I believe we all become codependent in a marriage. We should be to some extent. But after a while I think our personal worthiness stems from what we give our spouses, how we make them feel, and that's where our self-esteem and worthiness is found. That I think is when we become that unhealthy co dependent.

Something to ponder, anyways. My motto is to always keep your intentions pure.

[CaliGuy]

She complains that she and I have never traveled together...I never knew she wanted to travel (bad communication), but I love to explore new places. There are places to go and see that I will look into.

Just wanted to pull this one out as I have to remind myself you are new and really in the thick of the 'new' MLC experience as I recall where I was.

So just to give you a heads up she is going to pull a few of these out and spit em at you .... with mine it was we always said we would have all these friends over, always would take vacations and never did, we would have a white house with blue trim and not this stucco crap.

She is and has been compiling a list of reasons to validate her getting out, some of these may very well be true, some completely false, others half truths like what I think she has here ... she may have day dreamed on occasion climbing Mt Everest but for whatever reason it was never something she HAD to tell you nor Had to do ... maybe like your guitar but I do not see you blaming her for not playing. Just be aware of the reasons they blame us for these things and not so much the attack and that often helps you rise above the emotions and see them acting out as the teenagers they will often become which in fact helps you detach from the situation a touch better.

[SBJ]

Ginger1...I agree that I slipped into the "what can I do for you" mentality. My wife and I joked for years that there are givers and there are takers...she said that I was the giver and she was the taker.

I honestly derived pleasure out of doing for my my family...but in reality it was to the detriment of me and my M. I am trying to come to grips with that as I move forward.

Life is about a healthy balance...God/Self/Family. I just need to put God first and then see myself as just as important as my W.

[SBJ]

CaliGuy...I understand and have heard alot of the excuses.

1. lack of travel
2. we don't hold hands
3. we lack passion
4. we don't have the same relationship as _____
5. she has never been physically attracted to me
6. we were just best friends that had kids together
7. don't you want someone to love you and give you what you need
8. you deserve someone that can fill all of your desires
9. we are not compatible
10. there is no chemistry with us
11. because of what you did to me we can never be intimate again
12. because of what you've said I can never be with you again
13. maybe one day in the future we can be friends
14. just because I want a D doesn't mean I don't care about you
15. ILYBINILWY

And as far as teenagers...I have kids (19/14/10) and none of them act like this. She thinks this is all going to turn out perfect. I told her she was breaking our family apart and her response was priceless...she said, "Families don't get broken apart, they just get restructured". What a crock of excrement.

I am the sarcastic one in the family, so it has been very hard to keep my mouth shut and not engage when I hear these things. I now have an area prepped in the garage that I will use as a diffusing area (punching bag, jump rope & pull-up bar included).

[CaliGuy]

CaliGuy...I understand and have heard alot of the excuses.

And as far as teenagers...I have kids (19/14/10) and none of them act like this. She thinks this is all going to turn out perfect. I told her she was breaking our family apart and her response was priceless...she said, "Families don't get broken apart, they just get restructured". What a crock of excrement.

I am the sarcastic one in the family, so it has been very hard to keep my mouth shut and not engage when I hear these things. I now have an area prepped in the garage that I will use as a diffusing area (punching bag, jump rope & pull-up bar included).

She has an image/idea in her head of what D will look like, this has been painted over the past few years so to her its very clear. Reality will not look like her image and its up to her to realize that without you pointing things out. The more you say "Look its a green tree" the more she will dig in and argue its blue. This is where the Detach and GAL come into play she has to face her own reality

My BD was Sep13 and I did not find this place till what .. 9-10 months after and then took a couple more months till I discovered this MLC thing, so do not worry about a make or break mistake as it just does not work that way. Mr Bond said some prophetic words... as hard as it is, its going to get worse. It pains me to tell you that but you do need to turn inward at this time, become super dad, and just bear down.

Read up, sip the STFU smoothie and hang in there, come here to vent and make sure you cover those tracks so she can not see you are here getting support.

[SBJ]

My problem is that it seems she is rushing the D thing and wants it done ASAP...my head is still spinning.

I want to try and slow things down a bit, but when she sets her mind on something it gets done and done fast.

I'm reading, but that STFU smoothie tastes pretty nasty...it is hard not to speak my mind. I will try to hang tough my friends. Thanks for the support.

[kdvor]

Hi SBJ. Just wanted to post here and tell you you are not alone. My husband is doing the same thing. I really struggle with the 180 because I love him, my family etc. I am a doer and a giver. It is un natural for me to be selfish and disconnected. To detach is to become a person that we are not. I don't now what a STFU smoothie is, gonna google that one. But order me one as well.

[kdvor]

p.s. do you ever worry, that if and when she comes back to you - you won't be able to forgive?

[job]

kdvor,

The STFU smoothie is a term that was created here and I don't think you'll find it out on Google. It is shut the fxck up or another way, put duct tape over your mouth and just listen.

[SBJ]

By the way, the smoothie is a Shut The F--- Up Smoothie...it is hard for me to swallow and keep quiet.

As for forgiving...as hard as it is to do and say, Jesus Christ forgave us all for our sins...not comparing myself, but I'd like to think he'd give me the strength to forgive her as well. Whether she comes out of the fog or not. I'm not there yet, but I aspire to be one day.

[kdvor]

LOL. I need a big dose of the STFU. . i can't control myself.

[CaliGuy]

Here is the thing with the STFU Smoothie ... Was Nov 14 and my W at the time hit a low spot and reached out wanting to talk, expressing she had made a mess of things and I simply had no words to offer, I was not about to pile on, nor could I argue so I sat there and in my mind sipped on this STFU smoothie and something remarkable happened .... the more I sat there in silence the more she talked and opened up. Now nothing was fixed out of this but it did give me a rare window into the mind of a MLCr and what she was going through at that time. That whole Knowledge is Power thing.

In the new days I would say the STFU smoothie is more for you to not add fuel to the fire, the MLCr after BD is desperate to distance themselves from the LBS and will do/say anything to get you to let go. You will find when you do 180 and let them be and you go about your day doing your thing, they will notice .. the reaction will be different for each sitch but they do watch us, they notice but you must allow them to get through their crisis and the majority who are here are complete fixers which creates more issues in itself.

Stop fixing, stfu, gal and look in the mirror in what you can do ... that's improve yourself, invest in you for now, allow them to walk that rocky trail without your help. They have to grow just as you do.

[kdvor]

Thanks. I am trying. I am really trying.

[SBJ]

I guess I'm having an awakening about how similar everyone here is as far as being the ones who are fixers and also with regards to their spouses wanting out. Just in Ch 2 of DR it has become apparent that I'm not CRAZY. This is totally eye opening. Everything I've read so far fits my W to a T.

[SBJ]

So I get home and the W asks if I still want to go to MC tomorrow which has turned into D facilitating. I asked if anything will change to which she said NO. Something is a bit off.

[Vapo]

SBJ,

you really have an amazing bunch of people helping you, so in many ways you may count yourself truly blessed. I to was searching for answers, I was beginning to think I was losing it, and when I found MLC description, it all clicked for me. As you said it, it fits to a T. Also it is amazing how all our spouses act alike, it is almost like they are all reading from the same script (that's why it is actually called a script).

Go search for Sandi's 37 rules, print them out, laminate them, keep it close and reread daily. DO NOT mention the MLC to your W, or DR for that matter.

DO NOT try to fix your W, you cannot. Really, please do not even try... MLC defies all logic. Try to resist sharing the MLC theory to your friends or even worse her friends (or mutual friends), it's a hard sell in the best of cases, but mostly it will just make you look desperate.

You are in this for a long haul, do not count on it being done anywhere soon, and I mean years rather than months.

DO NOT believe anything she says, also you said that she "had" an EA. What makes you think it is over? A women does not "fire her husband" if she does not have anyone on stand by. A sad truth, but applies to about 95% of the cases. I am not saying this to rattle you, but just to give you a heads up.

DO NOT take this personally, it's not you, it's her. She has to chase her demons, let her go.

DO NOT be her "friend". Friends do not treat each other like that...

DO NOT make this D easy on her, let her do the work, you can calmly explain that is is her D not your...

Treat your W as a neighbor, friendly, but standoffish.

Axe any and all expectations, she will not come out of this hole any time soon. And as other have said, it will probably get worse before it gets better.

How much longer, before you start feeling better you ask? Well, in my case, it stopped getting worse after about 6 months post BD and it started getting better about a year or so post BD. Yo do not get better all at once, but at first bad spells last shorter and are less severe and more and more time is in between them.

Please take the time to take in all the great advice the people are offering to you. Occasionally you will try to go against the advice, because you will fill you know better, in vast majority of these cases you will be wrong, but I understand you will try. No one will hold it against you. These people are a godsend, and all of us, that are more than a year post BD, we like to pay back for the great advice and comfort we received, to help out the new folk here. Sadly this really is a club no one wants to be a part of...

Stay strong buddy...

[ForeverYoung]

It sounds like you're starting to "get it" SBJ. Keep reading and posting, you're gonna be ok.

Try to resist sharing the MLC theory to your friends or even worse her friends (or mutual friends)

Ha! I told my W it seemed like MLC about 2 weeks after BD after reading all the signs! Let's just say it didn't go over too well...

[SBJ]

I actually had a few of her friends say they think she is going thru MLC. 2 women and 1 guy. Not to mention her sister. The writing is in the wall. It fits.

I have a lot of work to do. Have a coaching session tomorrow and I think I will pull the saxophone out tomorrow and start again. I feels some good blues coming on. Haha.

[SBJ]

I forget who said it, but I did the STFU thing tonight. She came in griping about her sister. Complained at how crazy she is and how jealous her sister is of her. She doesn't understand why her sister treats her this way..,yada yada yada!!!

Then she asks why I'm looking at her that way. I said I'm just listening. Then she kept rambling. It was actually nice not to have to say anything pro or con about the situation.

I guess sometimes it is best to say nothing.

[peacetoday]

Thats awesome!

you did good-

[SBJ]

Ephesians 6:10-18 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

The Armor of God
10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might. 11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil. 12 For our struggle is not against [a]flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm. 14 Stand firm therefore, having girded your loins with truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 [b]in addition to all, taking up the shield of faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

18 [c]With all prayer and petition [d]pray at all times in the Spirit, and with this in view, [e]be on the alert with all perseverance and petition for all the saints,

[SBJ]

Vapo...as for the EA, she never admitted anything, nor did he, but this guy was someone that we welcomed into our home as a family friend. He didn't have too many friends, so we opened our home in a Christian way to him. I won't go too much into his story, but he is an ex of sorts. He is ex-this and ex-that, and seems to be a very manipulative person. He and I worked out together and talked fairly often, but obviously not as much as he spoke with my wife. In hindsight, I'm the one that left the door to the hen house open, but that is neither here nor there right now. Over a 3.5 month time span they got to be very close (phone calls/texts/lunches/coffee). I knew that they had had lunch and coffee several times, but I was unaware of the time that spent communicating until I pulled phone records later. It was enormously ridiculous. Again, they both deny anything, but then I look at the...only believe 1/2 of what they say statement.

I think that she developed this infatuation factor and that is what flipped the switch. I've seen a word floated around alot called:
Limerence (also infatuated love) is a state of mind which results from a romantic attraction to another person and typically includes obsessive thoughts and fantasies and a desire to form or maintain a relationship with the object of love and have one's feelings reciprocated.

I'm no professional, but might fit???

[Vapo]

Over a 3.5 month time span they got to be very close (phone calls/texts/lunches/coffee). I knew that they had had lunch and coffee several times, but I was unaware of the time that spent communicating until I pulled phone records later. It was enormously ridiculous. Again, they both deny anything, but then I look at the...only believe 1/2 of what they say statement.

The statement is a bit more harsh than that, it is believe NONE of what they say (words they utter), and only half of what they DO (their actions).

As far as Limerence, it is a term from another online forum which really is not used anywhere else. The accepted term is MLC (Mid Life Crisis). Look it up, and also look up the stages of MLC, I think you might be amazed at what you find...

Stay strong...

[SBJ]

Just got off with my DB Coach...good info.

I know this is a long term approach, but DANG IT, this is nuts!

I don't know what to do next as far as the W is concerned. She called earlier to vent to me about some dealings she had with her sister. I think she was trying to get me to start arguing or maybe seeing if I'd go and tell her little sister (who is just like my little sister). I unfortunately have talked way too much to her family members in the last few months. I have given talking to all of them up.

I have a wife that is filling out D papers, my parents who now say I should treat this as a business, and nobody, but a few good friends that believe I can even save my M. What a storm this has turned out to be.

I love my W 100% and I am willing to STAND as long as I have to to save things. My eyes were opened during my coaching session as to how the W must view a few things...man I just don't listen to her...WOW! I guess I also just assumed that she'd always just be there...shocker! The joke's on me with that one.

Kind of bummed!!!

[CaliGuy]

SBJ

You are still in the shock stage, and that's normal. Heck 3 years post BD I still shake my head and think "Really .. this is what is left??" but as with all these things it cycles and is less intense with each rotation.

So your W is filling out D papers, that's what she thinks will bring happiness and there is not much you can do about that. Listen to your parents because they are correct, at this moment its business, protect yourself and the kids and remove the emotion out of it the best you can. Focus on yourself for a bit ... its time to start the mirror work.

[Vapo]

The wonderful thing is you know exactly what to do about your W. The answer is a big, fat, NOTHING!

[SBJ]

OK so my DB Coach said I should have gone to my regular MC with my wife today even though things were not moving in the correct path...at least for me.

So do I now backtrack and try to make another MC appt?

Thoughts?

[Vapo]

A MC with a spouse determined to end the M is pointless and futile. Did the DB coach explain why he thinks you going back to the MC was a good idea?

[SBJ]

My wife set the appointment, but then said that it would change nothing about how she feels. That is why I told her I didn't want to go. Now I feel I maybe should have gone...I don't know.

[SBJ]

I just got an email from my MC saying that my W went to our appt by herself, but she said that my W still sees things as bleak. She said that she told my W that marriage therapy could continue, but that it has to be about the two of us. She said that my W is going to talk to me about it tonight.

[Vapo]

Look buddy,

a general consesus on these boards is that unless an unmistakable interest is expressed to work on the marriage from the WAS, there really is no point in doing it, as it is only an excuse for the WAS (She tried, she gave it a shot, didn't work, time to go off and be "happy"...).

In your signature you say that W had an EA APR-JUL. What makes you think the EA ended?

[SBJ]

Vapo...It says in the boards that we should not try and spy to find out info. I have seen nothing that it still is..that being said, I just don't know.

I have always been a glass is half full kind of guy, so maybe I am just naturally optimistic, but that is why I have you guys to keep me grounded...as well as my parents and brothers.

I will see how she approaches telling me that she went by herself and make the best guess as to how to handle it from there. I will let you know of the outcome. THX

[job]

SBJ,

Please start a new thread. Thanks!

I have locked this thread because it is 10 over the 100 posting limit. Once you've created a new thread, I'll be happy to return and post your new thread link here for you.

[ForeverYoung]

When she vent to you, your job as H is to listen and validate. (research how to do this) You want to be the one she comes to, not some OM.

Maybe consider scheduling a solo appointment with the MC and yourself. Lay out in no uncertain terms that you intend to stand for your M, and will not come to MC only to facilitate an amicable D. His/her response will tell you if it is in your interest to go back to MC together.

Based on my brief post bomb MC experience, it won't help... until your W decides she wants to work on the M.

[SBJ]

CaliGuy...sorry I missed your post. I understand that I need to do my work on myself. I have amended my bucket list and where it says, with _______ I guess we'll just have to see.

Tough Mudder 2017 with some buddies from High School...should be fun!

I have a plan to take off the last 15#'s so that I can hit my high school playing weight of 173#.

Just keep moving...

New Thread:

I know my wife in in MLC and it seems hopeless