The phantom cyclist - journey leg 2

[AndrewP]

Difficult because I am a mom of a young one and when she goes to bed, it's my adult interaction. It keeps me engaged with the rest of the world. But hey, I took some time to get out more.

Do you get out? Reading is great. Radio is great. But do you have guy friends? If not, maybe join a club or activity where you interact with others. Spending time engaged in an actual social activity keeps me off my phone and social media totally.

So, what interests you?

Ginger: Thanks for the wave of the 2X4 and the invitation to increase my GAL activities. Like you Facebook is my way to interact with friends and family from around the world and get that human interaction that is difficult for me to schedule in otherwise. I used to be very involved in the community through volunteer work etc however when I took my current job 13 years ago I had to give it all up. Now that I'm a single guy in a big house with 2 cats I have even less time. Through the week I get up at 4:45am, drive 2 1/2 hours to work, get home around 7:00, spend a few minutes on social media (used to be visiting with W), make my lunch, do the dishes and then go to bed and do it all over again. I usually work from home on Wednesdays and take myself out to dinner. The weekends are generally full of chores / maintenance but I will often get out to a community event, a show, a nature walk or visit with some relatives. I try to get together for dinner with friends and with S22 a few times in the month. D24 is too far away for that.

Clubs and other activities require a regular commitment of time often in the evenings and through the week that I just can't make right now. The volunteer Foundation that I used to sit on the board of directors for example would meet on Thursday evenings - I just can't make it. Other groups such as the local service clubs are even more time intensive but do great work. I've been searching for a new job that will get me a better work/life balance and the search was going well up until BD2 when I put everything on hold to work on my MR. I've been starting to reach out again and have a very good chance at a new role but without being able to make a commitment to lots of travel (which I was OK with pre BD2) or to moving (which I won't while W is still in limbo) roles are few and far between. Once I can do that then getting back into volunteering is very much on my agenda whether W comes back or not.

The Facebook break yes is an attempt to "stir the pot". I had actually stopped watching W's Facebook feed for some months only recently looking at it again. I find that I can now look at it with only feeling mildly disturbed but that is probably because in large part nothing much is happening there. This is much much better than what my heart wanted to do which would be to re-enact Marlon Brando's scene in "A Streetcar Named Desire" - even if W's name isn't Stella This break will probably hurt me a bit and will be tough to do but at least I'll feel like I'm doing "something".

To be honest, other than missing W terribly I'm pretty happy with my life right now and with myself and don't feel much urge to ramp up my GAL process.

[AndrewP]

Journaling - Fair warning - a bunch of sappy sad nonsense, rambling self-justification and some really bad mathematics.

I've been feeling down for the last number of days. I think part of it is due to some reading I've been doing on other sites plus some of the bad news that some of my comrades here have had. There are a bunch of sites out there that are very negative about DB and MWD. On a lot of them the people who are here are considered "doormats" and weak. They also will write about not giving people second chances to cheat / hurt you but that it's best to get out right away. You can buy cute mugs and shirts from them to proclaim your "victory" over your cheating spouse. The comments sections are filled with stories of LBS who've found true love quickly while their ex spirals down into doom.

I've also done some reading / re-reading about affairs in general and their life cycle and whether they can turn into a long-term relationship. I know that my W's brother is a big believer that they can and do and very likely gave that advice to W. "It's perfectly normal" are words that I absolutely hate hearing.

There's nothing "perfectly normal" about what's going on though. Outside of this site it's almost impossible to find stories like mine where a wife will openly cheat on her husband while still living under the same roof and then after months of that go off to a little love nest but leave her husband hanging about whether she will ever come back or not. I know that this is an oversimplification of my situation and doesn't consider the h@ll that W may or may not be going through herself. Maybe because it's not "perfectly normal" for a LBS to try to fight for their MR? Perhaps so.

Does this mean that I'm weak? I don't think so but the amount of strength that it's taken to allow this to happen to me is more than I ever imagined being capable of. In my discussions with my IC, especially the first few sessions I said that I needed to find the strength to survive this and survive it I have thus far. Some days I feel like I'm in the medieval stocks being pelted with garbage and stones while the crowd mocks me, unable to move, unable to defend myself and doomed to take whatever is thrown at me. I'm not generally a passive person when confronted as a number of people here can attest to. If you had asked me before BD if I would willingly put myself into the stocks for my W and my MR I would have been unhesitating in saying yes. Now that I'm in those stocks I certainly can't be blamed for wondering if this was a good idea or not.

For some time I've been toying with the idea of writing a "Welcome to H@ll" post for this board from a newbie to a newerbie. I've often considered this place to be a self-selecting pool and the general welcome posts from Cadet and job are full of great reading but dive down into the weeds and details a fair bit and are a bit light on the actual life that you'll be leading going forward. If people knew what they were in for though I suspect a lot would just turn right around and run. Lots of people have affairs - that's a known statistical fact. Of those from what I've read, many will either end the A upon discovery or the couple will split. A much smaller number will try to win their spouse back. Of that number an even smaller set will get on the internet and search for answers and assistance. So those who arrive here are a minuscule fraction of the population. Of those who come here from what I've seen many don't hang around long. I'm sure that mining the forum database would create some very interesting statistics. Of those who are here, who take the advice from the vets and fellow sufferers, only a very small fraction of those end up with reconciliation. I'm glad that right now there are I believe 3 or 4 reconciliations in progress on the forum. But out of how many "failures"? Lots. So anyone who arrives here has already "won" in some way - they are the very very few who care enough to look for help. Those who stick it out through the anger, the pain, the disrespect, the bile and the sheer filth are true heroes. Many people here have much tougher journeys than I do and I really wonder how they can get up each morning and stay standing for another day.

Looking back to BD2 I wonder how my life would have been different if I'd tossed W out into the street. She certainly expected that to happen. I wouldn't have gone through the h@ll that I have but probably through a different one.

It does make me question though. Is W worth it? Am I? Is our MR? Why "am" I putting myself through this? I've been struggling with the answers to that regularly.

Looking back at the "me" that I was back then I know that I felt that W had made a mistake and that she would quickly come back to me and be the loving wife again that she used to be. I felt that the A would burn out rapidly with it no longer being secret from me and that the forgiveness that I gave her in April would open the door for her return. Hours have turned into days, days into weeks and weeks into months with realistically no end in sight. I don't know how this will turn out. I know that I'm W's absolute best choice (thanks Jack) but since she hasn't chosen me she presumably doesn't know that at this point. When she left she still felt that a long term relationship with OM was a definite possibility. Will she have an "awakening"? From my reading, statistically speaking she should. Statistics also suggest that she will regret leaving me and want to come back - at some point. Even though I'm a mathematician by training I svcked at my statistics courses and the way that W does math while it works well for her baffles me. For every statistic though too there are always two sides. Even a 90% chance of winning is also a 10% chance of losing. Once the horse race starts even the favourite can lose.

One largish crumb that I cling to is in fact the amount of time that this has taken. Going back to statistics, affairs tend to have a life-cycle. The longer this goes on, the greater the odds are (I feel) that the A "will" indeed burn out. Being as (I presume) the A is still a closely held secret by both of them and with W now living in the glare of her apartment over the shop one would think that they would tire of the effort that is required to keep it going and still quiet. Of course I could be completely wrong about all of this and may well be. W may indeed be an evil mastermind who has everything planned out and one day will swoop down with her lawyer minions paid for by OM and steal away our house, the remaining few sticks of furniture and the rest of my soul.

I've also been feeling the loneliness hit hard from time to time. Not the loneliness that can be relieved by good friends or being around people, but the loneliness that comes from having "my better half" ripped away from me. There continues to be a W shaped piece of my soul that is missing.

The "no Facebook" and "no Snapchats that W can see" thing continues. It's actually not quite as hard as I thought it would be. I do regularly catch myself thinking of posting something especially to SnapChat for W or wondering what W is up to. For all I know she's changed her marital status and is posting engagement pictures of her and OM although I would expect that the SIL army would start marching if that happened. I'm determined to hold out for the full week. After that, I don't know. I honestly don't expect this to have any impact on W at all and quite possibly she won't notice the lack of activity from me.

Well - that's enough for now. Thank you to anyone who made it this far or who cheated and is only reading the last paragraph.

We now return you to our regularly scheduled programme.

[CaliGuy]

Journaling - Fair warning - a bunch of sappy sad nonsense, rambling self-justification and some really bad mathematics.

I've been feeling down for the last number of days. I think part of it is due to some reading I've been doing on other sites plus some of the bad news that some of my comrades here have had. There are a bunch of sites out there that are very negative about DB and MWD. On a lot of them the people who are here are considered "doormats" and weak. They also will write about not giving people second chances to cheat / hurt you but that it's best to get out right away. You can buy cute mugs and shirts from them to proclaim your "victory" over your cheating spouse. The comments sections are filled with stories of LBS who've found true love quickly while their ex spirals down into doom.

Andrew ... Admittedly I have not read all of your sitch. I will just reply to this last post as I can relate ... and there is a point to some of what you have read beyond these forums but under the right context it still plays into what DBing is about.
The "Doormat" thing I have come to believe holds true more so for us LBH's .... its an attraction thing, if she does not respect you she will not want you. This is where Boundaries, Truth darts and STFU smoothies can serve you well ... not just doing them, but allowing them to become who you are as you look internally and make the much needed changes many of us here need(ed)

I've also done some reading / re-reading about affairs in general and their life cycle and whether they can turn into a long-term relationship. I know that my W's brother is a big believer that they can and do and very likely gave that advice to W. "It's perfectly normal" are words that I absolutely hate hearing.

There's nothing "perfectly normal" about what's going on though. Outside of this site it's almost impossible to find stories like mine where a wife will openly cheat on her husband while still living under the same roof and then after months of that go off to a little love nest but leave her husband hanging about whether she will ever come back or not. I know that this is an oversimplification of my situation and doesn't consider the h@ll that W may or may not be going through herself. Maybe because it's not "perfectly normal" for a LBS to try to fight for their MR? Perhaps so.

You are correct .... this place is a collection of people who at the least can understand what you are going through and why after all the pain she caused would still want to fight for your M

As far as an A "life cycle" .... just as variable as how long a dog might live. My advice is ... its not in your control, could last another week ... or maybe 20 years its really not up to us now is it? My STBX's A has been going on I think 3-4 years now ... granted I lost count after 12 of the amount of breakups, not my circus and not my monkey to worry about.

Does this mean that I'm weak? I don't think so but the amount of strength that it's taken to allow this to happen to me is more than I ever imagined being capable of. In my discussions with my IC, especially the first few sessions I said that I needed to find the strength to survive this and survive it I have thus far. Some days I feel like I'm in the medieval stocks being pelted with garbage and stones while the crowd mocks me, unable to move, unable to defend myself and doomed to take whatever is thrown at me. I'm not generally a passive person when confronted as a number of people here can attest to. If you had asked me before BD if I would willingly put myself into the stocks for my W and my MR I would have been unhesitating in saying yes. Now that I'm in those stocks I certainly can't be blamed for wondering if this was a good idea or not.

For some time I've been toying with the idea of writing a "Welcome to H@ll" post for this board from a newbie to a newerbie. I've often considered this place to be a self-selecting pool and the general welcome posts from Cadet and job are full of great reading but dive down into the weeds and details a fair bit and are a bit light on the actual life that you'll be leading going forward. If people knew what they were in for though I suspect a lot would just turn right around and run. Lots of people have affairs - that's a known statistical fact. Of those from what I've read, many will either end the A upon discovery or the couple will split. A much smaller number will try to win their spouse back. Of that number an even smaller set will get on the internet and search for answers and assistance. So those who arrive here are a minuscule fraction of the population. Of those who come here from what I've seen many don't hang around long. I'm sure that mining the forum database would create some very interesting statistics. Of those who are here, who take the advice from the vets and fellow sufferers, only a very small fraction of those end up with reconciliation. I'm glad that right now there are I believe 3 or 4 reconciliations in progress on the forum. But out of how many "failures"? Lots. So anyone who arrives here has already "won" in some way - they are the very very few who care enough to look for help. Those who stick it out through the anger, the pain, the disrespect, the bile and the sheer filth are true heroes. Many people here have much tougher journeys than I do and I really wonder how they can get up each morning and stay standing for another day.

Ok .. lets look at that highlighted comment for a second ... Say you want to be a successful business owner/professional body builder/5 star chef... pick one. I bet if you found out all the work and hours that it required you may just run the other direction. However if your desire to be "That" was strong enough you just accept its going to take work to get there right? That struggle and journey often times is worth it regardless of where we end up .... What is worse to accept failure, or to give something all we have and regardless of the outcome sit back and realize we did all we could and sleep well at night with no regrets?

One could come here (And in my time a few have) and read all the threads, look for the magic bullet and spend their days compiling stats to pin point a success rate ... you are missing the point with this logic, and honestly wasting time and energy that would be best spent looking inward. DBing is getting YOU and YOUR LIFE back. If your WAS/MLCr sees all that and it sparks change that's great, but saving a M is not always the success story here. In MLCville you may begin to read long enough as I have (not only here) that is is not a 3-4 month process ... talking 5-7 years ... I personally am a solid 5 years into this the last 3 being the "Hell" years as you describe. In that time I have learned, grown,and arrived at a place I never would have dreamed possible.

Looking back to BD2 I wonder how my life would have been different if I'd tossed W out into the street. She certainly expected that to happen. I wouldn't have gone through the h@ll that I have but probably through a different one.

It does make me question though. Is W worth it? Am I? Is our MR? Why "am" I putting myself through this? I've been struggling with the answers to that regularly.

Looking back at the "me" that I was back then I know that I felt that W had made a mistake and that she would quickly come back to me and be the loving wife again that she used to be. I felt that the A would burn out rapidly with it no longer being secret from me and that the forgiveness that I gave her in April would open the door for her return. Hours have turned into days, days into weeks and weeks into months with realistically no end in sight. I don't know how this will turn out. I know that I'm W's absolute best choice (thanks Jack) but since she hasn't chosen me she presumably doesn't know that at this point. When she left she still felt that a long term relationship with OM was a definite possibility. Will she have an "awakening"? From my reading, statistically speaking she should. Statistics also suggest that she will regret leaving me and want to come back - at some point. Even though I'm a mathematician by training I svcked at my statistics courses and the way that W does math while it works well for her baffles me. For every statistic though too there are always two sides. Even a 90% chance of winning is also a 10% chance of losing. Once the horse race starts even the favourite can lose.

One largish crumb that I cling to is in fact the amount of time that this has taken. Going back to statistics, affairs tend to have a life-cycle. The longer this goes on, the greater the odds are (I feel) that the A "will" indeed burn out. Being as (I presume) the A is still a closely held secret by both of them and with W now living in the glare of her apartment over the shop one would think that they would tire of the effort that is required to keep it going and still quiet. Of course I could be completely wrong about all of this and may well be. W may indeed be an evil mastermind who has everything planned out and one day will swoop down with her lawyer minions paid for by OM and steal away our house, the remaining few sticks of furniture and the rest of my soul.

I've also been feeling the loneliness hit hard from time to time. Not the loneliness that can be relieved by good friends or being around people, but the loneliness that comes from having "my better half" ripped away from me. There continues to be a W shaped piece of my soul that is missing.

The "no Facebook" and "no Snapchats that W can see" thing continues. It's actually not quite as hard as I thought it would be. I do regularly catch myself thinking of posting something especially to SnapChat for W or wondering what W is up to. For all I know she's changed her marital status and is posting engagement pictures of her and OM although I would expect that the SIL army would start marching if that happened. I'm determined to hold out for the full week. After that, I don't know. I honestly don't expect this to have any impact on W at all and quite possibly she won't notice the lack of activity from me.

Well - that's enough for now. Thank you to anyone who made it this far or who cheated and is only reading the last paragraph.

We now return you to our regularly scheduled programme.

Ok ... so all that ^^^ ... you are focused more on the A, let me guess ... when the A ends she will come running back to you and all is good right? You can read all my 23 threads to see how that one works out because MLC is not about the A, the A is simply one small equation in a much larger formula (Math talk for you)
You have started to accept you are the best choice ... you have to own that thinking and present yourself that way. Affair down is a real thing and at this point that is where she is .. do not go down there with her, you are the prize and in time maybe she will wake to see that and do all she can to win you back, till then .. GAL PMA and work on you.

What will happen .. I hope for you.. is you reach a place where when and if she wakes you will have a much harder decision to make because your new life you never asked for is actually pretty darn amazing and you are not so blind to just accept that old life that was not really as wonderful as you remembered it to be ... the LBS too rewrites the history sometimes. MLC is an absolute grueling marathon but one that allows you to rediscover/reinvent yourself for a much better version of yourself that has been waiting to be let loose.

[ericmsant2]

Andrew,

I dissected your post and group some things together that I will try and respond to. This may be a bit of a ramble and for that I apologize.

There are a bunch of sites out there that are very negative about DB and MWD. On a lot of them the people who are here are considered "doormats" and weak. They also will write about not giving people second chances to cheat / hurt you but that it's best to get out right away. The comments sections are filled with stories of LBS who've found true love quickly while their ex spirals down into doom.

Yes, there are many site that offer advice and different approaches. I have also seen many of the site that you probably are referring to. Here is my take.

1) Divorce Busting, is IMO, about teaching you tools to improve YOURSELF. I personally do not subscribe to the notion that ONE person can save a M. I understand the marketing behind it. I just think it is misleading. That said, I also realize that had the marketing not been done this way – many people may never have signed up and would have missed out on what I would call a “life changing opportunity”.

2) Several years ago, there appeared to be 2 different camps on the boards. One group that was more along the line of “man up”, “throw her arse out”, “set boundaries on day one” – pretty much a much more aggressive approach. In some cases, I actually think it works. The other camp, was more geared towards…”work on yourself, detach, become the best you can be – and maybe you have a chance to save it”. I would think the MLC section of the boards is more along those lines. Personally, I subscribe to the “work on yourself” approach. Having said this, I do believe that depending on the sitch the right approach, or hybrid approach can be used. The key though….imo….is regardless of approach, the individual should….

A. Addressed the issues that you contributed to the break up of the M. Finally fix them.
B. Improve communication. I learn to listen, learn to communicate better
C. Learn to stop mind reading
D. Done everything YOU can to try to save the M – and the answer to this is very personal. Only the individual really knows.
E. Learn to be comfortable with WHO you are – on a much deeper level.
F. Learn to be self-aware.
G. Have you gotten to a place emotionally that you can make rational decision.

3) As for “finding true love quickly”. I think this is the biggest (yet normal) mistake people make. In my opionion…
1. 2nd and 3rd marriage divorce rates are so high because people do not stop to fix the issues they have, before jumping into the next R.
2. People are afraid to be alone. So they jump from one R to another – then they wonder why the R’s do not work. I think the question should be….. Do I want A relationship OR do I want THE relationship – there is a difference.
3. I am all for relationships – hell I’m engage right now. I do think that people are afraid to face themselves. I do think that as a society we want a “quick fix”.
4. I believe people run from or are not equipped to identify THEIR OWN ISSUES. Most will blame others, some will play the victim.
5. So I guess, you can run into the next R and maybe it will be fine….the question is….wouldn’t you want to put yourself in the best place to succeed and not repeat unhealthy patters.

Outside of this site it's almost impossible to find stories like mine where a wife will openly cheat on her husband while still living under the same roof and then after months of that go off to a little love nest but leave her husband hanging about whether she will ever come back or not.

You will not hear a lot about it, in part because people will not talk about or understand it.

For some time I've been toying with the idea of writing a "Welcome to H@ll" post for this board from a newbie to a newerbie. I've often considered this place to be a self-selecting pool and the general welcome posts from Cadet and job are full of great reading but dive down into the weeds and details a fair bit and are a bit light on the actual life that you'll be leading going forward. If people knew what they were in for though I suspect a lot would just turn right around and run. Of those from what I've read, many will either end the A upon discovery or the couple will split. A much smaller number will try to win their spouse back. So those who arrive here are a minuscule fraction of the population. Of those who come here from what I've seen many don't hang around long. Of those who are here, who take the advice from the vets and fellow sufferers, only a very small fraction of those end up with reconciliation. I'm glad that right now there are I believe 3 or 4 reconciliations in progress on the forum. But out of how many "failures"? Lots.

I believe we do not tell people it is going to be HELL is because honestly we really do not know. I mean sit back for a second….what is really hellish about YOUR sitch? She is gone (for now), It’s not like she is sleeping with OM in bed next to the living sofa while you are watching TV. What is bad about the experience is the torture that the LBS put themselves THROUGH. It is normal, the grieving process is normal. A lot of times we put ourselves through HELL. Our WAS, are just that…walk aways. The HELL is FEAR….

As for success rates. I agree with you. Chances are slim. The question though is……what if you were one of the 3 or 4 people – maybe it would not look as bad.


As for people not hanging around….most do not want to do the work. It is hard. Add to that the pressure people get from outside forces…they cave.

I also believe that many….many times….it is the LBS…that really does not want to go back. They have learned and realized that they played a role in the demise of the M, or that too much damage has been done, or that they finally regained their self worth, worked on themselves and said enough is enough. The timing of when people get to this place, depends on the person. For some it takes years, for others it takes weeks, months hell even days.

Looking back to BD2 I wonder how my life would have been different if I'd tossed W out into the street. She certainly expected that to happen. I wouldn't have gone through the h@ll that I have but probably through a different one.

You can still do it. YOU can still tell her to pack her chit and go file for a divorce. I actually would not try to stop you, my only question would be….. if you separate how you feel at the moment (emotionally), can you look at yourself honestly in the mirror and say that you gave it everything you had. If you can, dude, I will support ya.

“Everything you can” is a very personal definition as well.


Look at the marriage vows:

“In sickness and in health”
“for better or for worse”
“for richer or poorer”
“till death do you part”

I believe most people have no idea what these vows mean to them when they say I do. That is not judging, it is just my opinion.

So….Andrew, if you think you’ve done all you can, have fixed your issues – then hey do what you think you need to do for you.

It does make me question though. Is W worth it? Am I? Is our MR? Why "am" I putting myself through this? I've been struggling with the answers to that regularly. Hours have turned into days, days into weeks and weeks into months with realistically no end in sight. I don't know how this will turn out. I know that I'm W's absolute best choice (thanks Jack) but since she hasn't chosen me she presumably doesn't know that at this point. Will she have an "awakening"? From my reading, statistically speaking she should. Statistics also suggest that she will regret leaving me and want to come back - at some point. For every statistic though too there are always two sides. Even a 90% chance of winning is also a 10% chance of losing. Once the horse race starts even the favourite can lose.

Normal questions and signs that you maybe starting to get tired of this.

[Ginger1]

Eric, that post was soooo good, I think it needs to be added to the welcome message:) For real, it helped me understand some issues I'm struggling with.

Andrew, reconciliation on this board happens maybe 3% of the time. And as Eric mentioned, divorce rates for 2nd and 3rd marriages are very high because nothing was learned from the first. I personally think living the Db principles can make that 2nd or 3rd marriage divorce rate go down. I know that doesn't seem like much consolation for your present situation, but I think it could improve every kind of relationship in your wide, and that is something positive to take from this.

[AndrewP]

CaliGuy - Thanks for the visit and taking the time to read and comment. Just a disclaimer - I believe that I'm actually doing rather well and am pretty comfortable with the man that I am. Just feeling a bit blue in the last few days and wrote this post to get it off my chest and to manufacture a bit of hope for myself to help me keep standing.

I completely agree that even if the A ends that my W may choose a different path. I've known this all along. Would my MR have been in jeopardy even without the A? It probably was on a pretty rocky spot anyway. I was largely oblivious to this since as far as I can tell there was nothing I contributed to my W's crisis other than being somewhat less than I could have been which I've now addressed. The A and W's indecision on which path to take is the reason why she's not home so yes, I do think about it and know that she'll never come back while the A is active. Even if the A ends she could stay away either alone or go looking for love elsewhere. I also know that I can't do a darned thing about it. It's just a fact that I take into account and largely ignore otherwise just like if she does come back I'll have to not dwell on it but move forward.

I feel for your pain going through this for 5 years. I'm just trying to take things one day at a time and not looking for any particular timeline. I will freely confess that I don't see myself still standing in the way that I am 5 years from now. I get a lot of pressure from family/friends to set a deadline for moving on and leaving W behind but one day at a time is what I'm doing for now.

eric - Welcome back from vacation - just let me put this innocent looking turban behind the potted plant - be right with you .... I'd hide it behind the living room sofa but W took that - it's a bit small for acrobatics with OM but you never know ...

Wow - I didn't expect such detailed responses from both you eric and CaliGuy. I feel a bit bad that I don't have a similarly long response other than "thanks" and "yup". I honestly expected no responses at all - I was just writing for the sake of writing.

eric - Yes - I am getting tired of this but I find that writing about my doubts helps re-motivate me. Counter-intuitive perhaps but many things are.

Ginger - thanks for the visit as well. 3% is a higher number than I might have thought but again - we're in a self-selected pool of people who have chosen to try which increases the odds I suppose. I'm not too worried about the overall percentages - as Jack_3_Beans so wisely told me and I have taken to heart - I'm the ONE BEST CHOICE. If you are the one - then you're not a statistic.


PS - I'm disapointed that nobody LOL'd about my evil mastermind line - Cancel the flying monkey scene!

[AndrewP]

SH_ posted a note about this on another thread. It's so important to how I'm living my life right now and the lessons I've learned here that I wanted to share this here.

I never doubted not only that I would get out, but also that I would prevail in the end and turn the experience into the defining event of my life, which, in retrospect, I would not trade.

When Collins asked who didn’t survive the grueling ordeal of years in prison in Vietnam, Stockdale responded: "The optimists. They were the ones who said, ‘We’re going to be out by Christmas.’ And Christmas would come, and Christmas would go. Then they’d say, ‘We’re going to be out by Easter.’ And Easter would come, and Easter would go. And then Thanksgiving, and then it would be Christmas again. And they died of a broken heart.

[PacLove]

AndrewP,

I was going to respond to your earlier question about the thought that the more time they spend together the closer they will be but it seems like you may have come to your own conclusion on that.... reality will sync in eventually with them and the bad habits and annoyances that come in a relationship will surface. The question our W's will need to ask themselves is if they prefer the OM's bad habits or ours? Is giving up what they have with their H really worth this guys bad habits and everything he comes with.... I too have the same concerns as you and I sense that the OM and R may be starting to fizzle, no concrete proof, but just a 6th sense (where was that a year ago when she was having the A under my nose and I was in a state of denial...)

Congrats on the no social stuff... I'm not overly active on that anyways so for me it hasn't been an issue so much.

I still see my W every few days as she hasn't formally moved out, that takes place in a few weeks so things will become more real then.

As for evening time - take up a new hobby! I recently started learning the guitar and am really enjoying it. The adult conversation at night is certainly missed but I try and get out at least once or twice a week to meet up with a friend.

[AndrewP]

I was going to respond to your earlier question about the thought that the more time they spend together the closer they will be but it seems like you may have come to your own conclusion on that.... reality will sync in eventually with them and the bad habits and annoyances that come in a relationship will surface. The question our W's will need to ask themselves is if they prefer the OM's bad habits or ours? Is giving up what they have with their H really worth this guys bad habits and everything he comes with.... I too have the same concerns as you and I sense that the OM and R may be starting to fizzle, no concrete proof, but just a 6th sense (where was that a year ago when she was having the A under my nose and I was in a state of denial...)

PacLove - Thanks for the visit and words of encouragement.

I can't honestly say that this will happen between my W and OM because I have absolutely no insight into what is going on with them. I know that my W wasn't always easy to live with and I'm know that I was a challenge from time to time but what made our R work was that we never really complained but just accepted it as part of the package. If the statistics etc are right then yes - the A will fizzle out as reality sets in but as I wrote, there are always exceptions.

The complete and utter lack of knowledge of what is going on with her and OM is both frustrating and a relief. Because I can't know what's going on I find that I don't tend to stress about it. When I write about it here it's more in the context of "gee - I wonder ...". On the other hand not knowing means that some bomb could be forming of which I'm completely unaware - so I put on fresh underwear every day and and am diligent about checking the mail. Only time will tell - or perhaps not. I would be hurt and sad and probably angry if W moved in with OM or married him but I think I'm in a place right now where it wouldn't shatter me like it would have only a few months ago.

Oh well - back on the bike.

I finally got an answer from S22 about Thanksgiving which is the weekend after next here in Canada. I'm going to do the 3 hours of driving each way to go and see him on the Sunday. I'd thought about pushing for him to come home and trying to do up a nice meal with him but the thought that W would also try to get some of his time and that I'd have to deal with a hand-off just turned my liver cold. I frankly don't want to have to deal with W until she's ready to come out of her tunnel. I have no clue if W is intending to spend time with him or not on that weekend. If she's really in MLCer land maybe she thinks it's still summer

I have a call (finally) planned with D24 this afternoon. I use Skype hands-free and chat with her when I'm driving home. It's been a few weeks since I last spoke to her (lots of SnapChats in between though - love that girl) and I need to mentally prepare myself. I did pretty good on my last call but broke down right at the end when I was saying goodbye. I'm going to ask her about coming down in March for my birthday - I hope she says "yes" and she probably will.

I've been thinking more about the Stockdale Paradox and yes, more and more this is how I feel that I'm now living. I realized this morning that today was one of those "deadlines" that I'd set previously when I thought that W had her first place until the end of September. It would have been a "logical" time for her to have made up her mind. As I told people a long time ago when this was on my mind was that at the end of September I would need to decide if I was going to act on my own or if I was just going to flip the calendar page over to October. It looks like the calendar page will be turned and nothing else done. Helping out my fellow prisoners here helps keep me focused and standing.

The social media blackout is a bit of a double-edged sword. It makes me even more blind to W while at the same time quite likely having no effect on her at all. I am confident that I can carry it through until at least Monday making it a full week and may carry it a bit farther from there. I'm finding that I'm not really missing Facebook as much as I thought I might but from the multiple emails Facebook has been sending me, it misses me. The single electronic footprint I have about W is now just when she accesses our cloud-based bookkeeping software. It was her pay-day yesterday and she usually goes on presumably to check to see how much she needs to send to S22. She hasn't connected to it for 4 days. Is she crawling farther into herself like I was speculating recently? Is she just busy or have things figured out and no need to check? Did she take the week's vacation she had talked about back in June (unlikely - she doesn't get vacation pay)? No way to know and that's probably enough time speculating on it.

As job (and others) have suggested, I need to just move on with my life and perhaps, one day she'll pop her head up and look for the path home.

This weekend is going to be moderately busy. The first weekend of the month has always been the time when I do a more thorough clean in the house. Being alone there's both more and less to do. I do more things such as dusting, sweeping etc but with just me and the cats there's less mess especially since I try to keep on top of general tidiness. I wasn't able to get any roses last week so the one in my bedroom is very sad looking. Hopefully fresh roses will be available this weekend. I checked the schedule and there's a hockey game on Saturday night so I may go out for that again. It's a cheap fun night.

It's been quiet on the forums for the last few days - I feel a bit odd being one of the more frequent posters. Hopefully everyone has patience for my blather.

[Altair]

AndrewP,
Wow! I had, up until this point, never heard of the Stockdale paradox! Oh man, this will certainly be incorporated into my GAL and thinking!
I always felt the "dates" for where certain things should be happening didn't make any sense, and felt arbitrary. But I would keep doing them, also at the advice of well-meaning friends. Moving over here to MLC was an acceptance of the long-haul nature of my sitch, but today, seeing that I should remove arbitrary dates, and an amazing story to back exactly why, is just perfect. Thank you.
I also feel like I should pick up your flower ritual too. It sounds so lovely. And it would be, like it is for you, just for me when I come home