Here we go again....

[sandi2]

When a WW sees or suspects one tiny step back from her H, she will do these type of things, b/c she wants him to stay where he is......which is attached to her.

It's crazy! She doesn't want to be his W, but she doesn't want him having anyone else to fill her position. She doesn't want to be M to him, but she wants all the benefits she had as his W. She will never admit this, but you can bet that is exactly what she will do. Even when the WW is living with OM, she expects her LBH to live his life around what she wants. The selfishness is staggering!

If you believed her show of affection were signs of her rethinking about the MR and you started getting all lovey-dovey, she would turn cold. Some WW's even have sex with the LBH, temp checking, and then the next day she is right back to her cold, angry, waywardness. Why? B/c she is satisfied that he is still attached.
The WW is not interested as long as the H is attached to the relationship/her. And, that is why I encourage H's of WW's to pull way back, to not be available, and to not be her BFF. Don't be fooled into thinking her bread crumbs are anything more than manipulation.

Your situation is not hopeless, but you cannot draw a WW by applying your nice-guy techniques. You have to be tough, b/c she has to have consequences due to her decisions. Her fantasy has to crumble. She has to go through a process, and the more you pursue, are available, cater to her, act like her BFF......the less chance (if any at all) to reconcile. She has to respect you before she is attracted to you. Not putting up with her b.s. is a big start.

[matw]

Oh Sandi you are so correct on this. I am seeing it in action right now. She has been in a lot more contact (texting, phone calls, emails) last night and today. I know I am being more available than I should be. What you wrote is a good reminder the work I need to do and I am copying to a word a document so I can read before any interactions with WW.

So two things happened last night that I feel were a step in the right direction. First was back when we were seeing a MC he wanted us to do a check in nightly. Well we haven't done that in weeks and last night she wants to do a check in with me. For the first time I answer without a care how she feels. I let her know that I have been angry with this whole situation and I might decide that I don't want this R to continue. This is the second time we are going through this.. How will I know there won't be a third? She actually seemed a bit shocked by my response.

The second thing was before she left she is seeing our MC as her IC as well. After he last appointment I made the demand that the next time we should go together so we can work on the marriage and blah blah blah... I told her last night that I don't feel that way anymore and she should continue to see him by herself. I will make an appointment to see my own IC. I just don't feel like a MC is going to help us right now..

So somethings I am not doing right... I was more available than I would like to be. She caught a cold coming back from MN. I feel I was involved in that than I should have been. I was the one who texted my father to see if he could watch D3 so she could rest. She has a good relationship with my dad and could have done that her self. I need to stop doing things for her. I also rubbed her hair last night while we watched TV. This has to stop.. for the past 6 years I have either rubbed her back or played with her hair before we go to bed. It will be a big eye opener I think if I just up and quit this. She is going to have to get used to it anyways when she moves out to the apartment.

Also she told me that she got me something and it will arrive in a week. Why is she getting me a present at all? Goes back to Sandi's post.. but I made the mistake of being excited and showing her. Talk about playing into her hands.

So tonight I am taking my S9, S10, and D3 to our local drag stip to watch our friends do some drag racing. I used to race myself every year but this year I didn't because my W always seemed put off by it. So next year I am going to make sure I am racing with my friends. I love it up there and its fun to hang out. Also W will be at home and I don't plan on texting, calling, FB her at all. Short replies if she reaches out to me.

Also latley I have been putting a lot of pictures on FB of the kids and I when we are hanging out. I think I was doing it to show W that hey look we can have a lot of fun without you.. but now I think its having the opposite effect on her. Its allowing her to be connected to us without actually being there. She is getting the family time without the effort. So I am putting that on hold for awhile.

[sandi2]

It is great that you are seeing the things that need to change!

Why is she getting me a present at all?

Did she say it was a gift? Doesn't matter. She will do things that will keep you confused, if you try to make sense of it. She's the one who is looney-tunes, remember? Seriously, my first thought to her getting something for you is that she's buttering you up. Everything the WW does is for her benefit in some kind of way......maybe now, maybe a little later. The WW will do something that seems actually "nice"......but she's just buttering up the H for something she wants. While he's all happy that she bought him something......she'll hit him for something she wants to do, or whatever....and he feels like he can't tell her no, since she was so nice to buy him something.

You cannot trust her.

[matw]

Did she say it was a gift? Doesn't matter. She will do things that will keep you confused, if you try to make sense of it. She's the one who is looney-tunes, remember? Seriously, my first thought to her getting something for you is that she's buttering you up. Everything the WW does is for her benefit in some kind of way......maybe now, maybe a little later. The WW will do something that seems actually "nice"......but she's just buttering up the H for something she wants. While he's all happy that she bought him something......she'll hit him for something she wants to do, or whatever....and he feels like he can't tell her no, since she was so nice to buy him something.

You cannot trust her.

Well its working because it completely took me by surprise that she would get me anything. Its a complete 180 from the way she was acting before she left for her trip. I have to remind myself that everything she is doing right now is going to have some sort of ulterior motive to it. I guess I have to wait and see what sort of "something" she got me and what requests she is going to make of me.

[matw]

So I have failed miserably at detaching this past weekend. I have a feeling that it will be extremely hard until she moves out to the apartment. She had a bad head cold ever since she got back from MN and its just gotten worse.

On Friday I went to the drag strip with my kids. I was having a lot of fun and hanging out. I kept looking at my phone seeing if she was going to text me. I know this is just driving me crazy and a bad habit. I finally (my mind screaming don't do it but my heart saying do it) texted her asking how things were going. She told me she was just getting into bed and not feeling good. So I stayed at the races until about 930 then headed home. She wasn't quite asleep yet when we got home so she stayed up asking how things were and being social with the kids and I.

On Saturday she had to wake up early to go to work (she works on a local gym that I also workout at). When I went to workout she was coming out of the bathroom as I was coming in. She came into give me a hug then laid her head on my chest for a minute. I worked out then went to grab kids from my parents. Once my W got off work at Noon she came home and we took the kids to a local Cider Festival. Then we headed to dinner. Its pretty clear that she doesn't want to lose the "Family" part of us but she is still very stand offish with me when it comes to hugs/hand holding/etc.. I didn't force it and neither did she.

Yesterday I went to the gym while she stayed home. She still wasn't feeling good so I took the kids to my parents to give her a few hours to rest/relax. While I was out she cleaned a lot of the house. More than I would have expected for someone who will be leaving in a month's time. Also did all the laundry for the two of us. One of the things I did when I went into Mr Fixit mode was to make sure the laundry was for the most part done and put away. I was talking to a friend and he said she probably was just trying to keep herself busy. I don't know but it seemed strange to me. We enjoyed the rest of the day watching football. I had a massage in the evening so went to that then came home.

Here is where I made a huge mistake and when we were laying down to bed I asked if she wanted her head rubbed or back rubbed. She said back and I rubbed her back while she sent to bed. I know this isn't what I am suppose to be doing at all but it just felt nice to be right there in the moment feeling close. That is why I think when we are in separate houses it will that much easier. Also she continue to talk about what we are going to do for Thanksgiving and getting our kids presents together for Christmas. Its just really odd..

So I know I need to start working on boundaries and also detaching myself from her. Stop worrying about text messages/Facebook/etc... Its just such a difference than were we were that I am having a hard time adjusting to it. We used to text each other a lot during the day so to hear nothing from her makes me uncomfortable. Now if I try it just feels forced and I know making her more resentful. I need to go back and read Sandi's posts and trust in the process.

[matw]

journaling...

So yesterday was more of the same. I went to the gym in the morning 5am. One of the things I decided I want to do is a bodybuilding competition on April 8, 2017. So right now I am putting on as much muscle as I can then will do a 20 week contest prep starting November 19th. This will be huge for me considering I was 277 lbs (and fat) last spring and by the time the contest happens I will be under 200 lbs (haven't been that low since high school). So the diet, working out, etc.. will be a major concentration for me while I work through the W and I living apart. It will also be a major confidence boost to me because I have never been in that good of shape (i.e. seeing my Ab's )

So the hardest part for me is not texting my W during the day. I find myself wanting to text her to see what she is doing, how our kids are, and checking in... We used to text a lot just a few weeks ago before she dropped the bomb she was going to move to the apartment. Now unless I text her its rare that I get one from her. I guess its almost like an addiction for me... then when I do text her its just forced conversation. Nothing enjoyable about it for either of us I am sure. I need to stop texting..... I know it and as I write this it makes so much sense. I guess just harder to put into practice.

So last night I get home and my wife has cleaned out a good portion of our garage so she can park her Jeep in there. Before she decided she needed space we were going to sell this house and buy a new one. Well we were moving all of the stuff to the garage so we haven't been able to park in it. She has been unpacking all the boxes and putting things back. She is putting back up our pictures... even the ones where its the two of us (like engagement and wedding pictures). Its really a mind [censored] when I see these pictures. I want to ask if she plans on putting any up at her apartment or am I the only one that gets to be reminded that we failed at marriage twice?

Anyways we ate dinner together the two of us. She brought up she was going to be stressed about money while she gets ready for the apartment. I really didn't respond because I am not the one who choose to move into an apartment. I have already committed to paying $300 a month for it which looking back I should not have done. W and I also talked because she isn't happy with her work from home job. She has always wanted to be a counselor for addictions and I honestly think she would be good at it. She is going to go to a local school here for an Intro Class in the beginning of November to see how their program works. Again she made a comment though that she didn't know how she was going to pay for it. I knew I shouldn't respond but being the guy I am I said if it was something you really wanted to do we could figure it out. After we talked for a little bit she went up to take a shower.

I played with my 3 kids and we had a lot of fun. I was throwing a ball around to my S9 and S10 while my D3 tried to get it from us. She was laughing so cute and having a good time. W came back downstairs and played with us for a little bit. Actually saw her smiling and enjoying spending time with us. Then we take our D up to bed with us. We watched some TV while our D fell asleep. We were both having a hard time falling asleep so she wants me to scratch her back which I do for awhile. This is the first time she has actually wanted to be the close to me. I know its wrong but it just feels so good to be like that. I know its going the wrong way when it comes to her respect for me.

Also I have a question.. my W turned 30 this past August. It was really hard on her. She made comments like she had kids all during her 20's and seems resentful by it. She also had a friend of hers commit suicide in July that hit her really hard. Now she is questioning her job and obviously our marriage. I am wondering is 30 to young for a MLC? or least some tendencies that way. Does that change anything I should be doing? Maybe it doesn't matter and I am mind reading but just from some of her actions it seems like it. Also we had a lot of issues when our S's were 3/4 which is that age our D is right now. Also at the time she was turning 21 which is a pretty big age when it comes to wanting to be single/partying/etc... Those are just some similarities I am noticing between this sitch and the one we had before. For all the LBS we all know the mind races incredibly on all sorts of thoughts/feelings.

[matw]

So while this is the first step in many many days I feel proud of myself. It was hard and extremely difficult put I didn't text my W at all today while I was at work. Its funny my mind was coming up with a million different reasons why I could/should text her but I stopped them all. I have to stop pursuing her and give her space to walk her own journey. I am hoping that I can keep this up. I am going to be leaving work her shortly then she is supposed to meet my parents and me for dinner with our kids tonight. Just wanted to share because it really has been difficult all day... It will get easier I know...

[matw]

So last night we all met for dinner with my parents. Everything was going good. She was talkative and seemed to be in a good mood. She had asked me yesterday morning if it was ok that she went to Starbucks after dinner to get re certified (take a test) in Google Ad words. I told her that of course that was ok. While we were waiting for the check to come I told her she can go now if she wants. As she was getting up the made the effort to come over to give me a kiss and a hug before leaving.

I took the time alone with my parents to talk about a GAL activity that has been on my mind a lot. Earlier this year I started down the road to getting my private pilots license. If anybody has done that they know it gets pretty expensive. When of the things my W brought up when we were in counseling was she didn't like how I never asked her if I could do it. I just did it. So I put it on hold and figured it was for the best especially since we were looking to buy a new house. Well since we aren't buying a new house I want to finish and I am going to do it even if she doesn't like it. I need something that is mine and I am slowly coming to the realization that I live a lot of my life for my W. It was rare I did anything for myself for fear of making her angry. So I talked to my parents about starting to fly again and the reasons I was going to do it. So I am really excited about starting this again. Its funny because the Nice Guy in me is nervous about telling W but you know what she is moving to an apartment for her space. So why do I have to check in with her anymore?

So anyways I went home and gave my D a bath. While I was doing that my W starts texting me about the test and everything just some small chit chat. I keep it short and tell her she should get an espresso to make sure she stays awake. Then thats it.. She comes home after a little less than 2 hours. Ask's me how everything went then jumped in the shower. We laid in bed cuddling our D then went to sleep. Pretty uneventful evening.

Today I am doing the same thing with the no texting unless she texts me first. When I got to work she called me saying our D wanted to speak to me. So I talk to D for a little bit then talk to W for about 5 minutes about taking the kids to library tonight to get books and what not. So now I really have no reason to text her today and I am going to do that. Like I have said in earlier posts we texted a lot and I am sure we talked to much during the day.. So this will be a big 180 for me.

[TxHubby]

I don't envy your current position. Your cordial but you really can't plan your future because your wife is wishy washy about whether she's committed to your family or not. It sounds like you have a great little family there, if she doesn't recognize what a great life that is then she's got mental issues.

It's kind of a limbo you're living in and it seems like you'll stay there until YOU decide you've had enough. I spent a couple of years in limbo with my WAW/WW and it was hell. She finally realized what a great life with me/kids she was in danger of losing with her behavior.

One day I decided I had had enough. I filed for divorce and that freaked her out. She snapped out of you stupid funk and was all in and has been ever since. She says all the time that she thanks God that he opened her eyes to what she had and what she was about to lose and then she always follows by thanking me for giving her this chance.

The best thing I've ready in your entire thread was when you told your W that you had doubts if you even want to continue the R because this is the second time she's gone flaky and you don't want to have to worry about a 3rd, 4th, etc... You saw her reaction. That scared her for a bit. Then she got you to start giving her back rubs and when she was comfortable she had hooks in you again that abated her fear.

That attitude you showed her a glimpse of is your saving grace. Make it part of your daily personality. It should be. You were 100% right. Being in a marriage where you have to worry about your partner flaking out and wanting to walk at the drop of a hat is no way to live. She's either in this marriage for the long haul or she isn't.

She'll sit on the fence as long as YOU allow it. If you're not ready to knock her off that fence yet that's cool, I understand. It took me two years of misery before I said life is too short for this sh*t and I had her served. That did the trick and we're still together. Even if my WW had gone the other direction and we D'd I'd still be fine. Why? Because I really did detach and was planning my life without her. The fact that she knows that now has changed her whole attitude. Don't ever be anyone's guarantee. Women don't respect men they have wrapped around their figure. She has to earn your love as you have to earn hers. Every day, forever.

You're doing pretty good, think about the part I told you. That was good stuff and produced positive results. You have a great team there with you and the kids. She'd be nuts to lose that. The detaching part let's her see that she might and her reaction tells me she doesn't want to lose it. Don't be a doormat, don't be a guarantee for her. You work hard, work out, are a great dad. You're a catch. You'll never be alone if you don't want to be. Remember that and take confidence in it. Your W will feel that confidence of yours and it will be very attractive to her.

[matw]

TxHubby - Thank you for the reply on my sitch. I really do understand everything you are saying but it is so hard to put into practice. Its strange I am finding it harder this time then I did when we divorced before. I think the biggest problem I am having right now it detaching. Its so strange it feels like some hours I am doing a pretty good job detaching then other hours it feels like that's all I can think about. Today is day 2 of not texting her at all today. Even if its just about the kids... Which I was finding myself texting her to see how they were doing but in reality just wanted some sort of contact with her. I also know that I am the one allowing her to sit on the fence and I think its because I am not ready to have divorce talks again. She has never brought up divorce only that she needs her space. So I think some irrational part of me is so afraid that she will move towards divorce I am not detaching as much as I should. She is doing the ultimate cake eating right now I am sure of it. She doesn't want to lose the family. Also in a little over a month she thinks that she will be able to have both when she moves into her apartment... the family plus her space to be whatever she wants to be.