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#2706580 09/26/16 11:53 AM
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lt0402 Offline OP
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A WW? (4)

Quick rundown of my situation:
- M11, T13 w/ a D9
- BD on 5/31/16
- Find out about EA with OM on 6/22/16. Had been ongoing since 5/13/16
- Confront W on 6/30/16 about her plans to visit OM over 4th of July weekend
- W goes anyway on 7/3/16 for PA and I leave MBR that night
- W comes back and we have talk on 7/7 about Ls
- W retains L early August
- I have met with 2 Ls so far and another in 2 days
- "Family" beach trip for a week Aug 6, multiple MR talks
- W leaves for an anniversary party for friends. Turns out it's for another PA with OM at the same lake
- confront W on it and she lies, lies, lies. I move back into Mbr
- W begins doing and saying odd things after blowup. Mentions possibility of cancer and writes a long letter blaming me for all our issues
- W and I sit down and chat custody of D. A lot of spew and W wants to push ahead with Ls
- 2 days later W offers to go to see MC, retracts offer, then re-offers. At the same time, W begins a campaign to get me to leave the house, leveraging my R w/ my D to drive it
- I've retained an L and am willing to do MC with W, but am not expecting much to come from it

I'm progressively moving away from allowing W to control my emotions and actions. I don't feel the same way for my W that I used to. Still working on controlling my reactions to her "outbursts" and controlling mentality. Feel like I'm in a strange lull in all of this and I feel a combination of frustration and tiredness. It's a strange place to be.

For me though, with the help of a multitude of folks on here, I'm working through building my relationship with D9 to be stronger. I'm also re-tooling myself to be more like the man I was pre M. Standing up for myself and D in the face of some controlling behavior from W and refusing to be a doormat. Working on GAL and some 180s but all for the sake of D and me. W can hop off her crazy train and join us, but it's getting harder and harder for her to come back at this point.


Me39
M11 : T13
D9
BD 5/31/16
In House S until 6/21/17
Divorced 10/5/18
lt0402 #2706592 09/26/16 01:01 PM
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lt0402 Offline OP
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Ok, so did the MC thing today. I got there 20 mins early and did the paperwork. W showed up 5 minutes early, grumpily asked if I checked in, and then sat in a chair on her phone.

Went in to see the MC and she seemed nice enough. However, I felt somewhat teamed up on in there. MC seemed to side w/ W, but maybe it's me being biased. MC wants us to work towards a S agreement and physically S, which lines up w/ Ws desires.

MC also seemed to validate Ws decisions. MC seemed to brush off the OM situation. W relayed to MC that she had zero desire to work on our MR. I was caught off balance bc that's not what she'd told me in the past few weeks. Guess I should not be surprised.

MC did ask that we work hard to keep D from being wedged in the middle of this. W said she absolutely was not doing that. MC told W she had anger issues and needed to see an IC to work through them.

So, apparently my W has no intention of doing anything to work on this MR. Not surprised really, but I have no clue why she'd ask to go to MC if that's how she feels. Maybe she was hoping for what she got today and that it'd loosen up my stance on leaving the home and my D.

MC wants us to talk tonight and discuss if we'd like to continue w/ the MC, but move down the path of counseling for S and co-parenting. MC wanted to me to acknowledge that my W was saying we are "done". If we don't choose to do MC then she asked if my W would like to utilize the MC as an IC.

Left there somewhat dumbfounded. W walked out and did not wait for me. She went straight to car and drove off. It felt like there was a hole in my chest. I don't think the hole is from my W though. I think the hole is more from knowing that there's really no chance my D has a stable, 2 parent household in her future.

Very surprised by the response from the MC. MC said that unless we were both willing to work on things, there's no reason to do MC to try to R. Less surprised by my W saying there is 0 chance she'd work on our MR. I guess we will have a conversation tonight around the future of the counseling. I've got my IC tomorrow so I'll be curious for his take on this.

Sorry all, wish I had better news resulting from todays MC visit. I feel like I've been sent down a cheese-less path and have been used, again, by my W. It's almost like she wants to show she is the puppet master and can pull my strings.

Guess we work towards a S agreement. Regardless, I keep my focus on myself and D. W can play her games. If MC can help us fix our communication to actually be co-parents then maybe I'll consider. I told both MC and W that I had no trust in W after what she's been telling me the past 4 months. That part is 100% true and I'm unsure how I ever rebuild that trust at this point. Unsure I want to, besides for the sake of my D.

Sad place to be in...

Originally Posted By: rich4j
LT
Was just recatching up on you sitch lately and its turning into something eerily similar to mine

It is impossible to be in the same house and I think make any progress whether its on the MC front or pulling away to move towards true separation. And agree she won't see how much you do and respect you more until she/you are not in the same house.

My STBX in MC early on when this started just used it as a way to bang on my head and reconfirm her decision. The worlds issues were all my fault and she had nothing to do with our marriage problems. You may see the same behavior if you go down that path.

For all that is going on ($$ being transferred,living togther, etc...) I can only give you some advice that I followed being in a super similar situation:

-always keep your cool in front of the D. I had a few situations that I did not and it was bad. The kids are smart than we think as my daughter ended up saying "I am glad you won't fight anymore" when we said we were moving on. She actaully has said since I moved out that she is glad mommy isn't here to yell at me anymore :-)

-You have lawyered up which is good. I don't recall the housing situation of moving out etc...but did recommend before don't move until you have anything/everything in writing with custody/separation.

-Do move or she should move. Space is good. I don't know if my STBX respects things a bit more of what I represented in the relationship but I sense she is starting to see all that i did. Yours may do the same once you are not sharing the house together. It is so hard living in that stressful situation and I wish you the best with that....

-Best thing to do which I see you are is when you aren't working on you, your job is to spend as much time (and documnet) with your D. It is the most important thing possible. My D and I are closer than ever right now which was my biggest fear. She doesn't want to leave my house and whether its her just saying it or not, we spend quality time together. While my STBX is getting babysitters etc....to do her own thing. Own the time with your D and plan plan plan.



Rich4j, as you can tell from the above, it sounds like my situation in MC was similar to yours. Extremely frustrating to have a 3rd party in there that validated the Ws behavior.

Appreciate your advice too. I've done a good job of keeping my cool in front of my D as of late. W has done a horrible job of keeping her cool and I find myself trying to compensate for it. To see my D come over and try to console my W when she gets angry over something stupid is heartbreaking.

I won't do anything w/ regards to moving her or I until we have a custody/Separation agreement in place. L has been on the backburner, but it sounds like I need to get that going based on today's MC visit.

I find myself hesitant to move. It kills me to know that my time w/ my D will be, at best, cut in half. It does suck living in this stressful situation, but I can justify it bc I have unfettered access to my D. At this point I've given up almost all thought that W and I can reconcile. She seems too far gone. It all comes down to my time w/ my D.

Thank you Rich! I'm going to think about all of these over the next couple days. Need my head a bit clearer than it is right now.

JR, yes, I see the contradiction b/t those two things. This is the thing that pisses me off the most right now. Unsure how a kid can want to be around and do things with me when she doesn't "trust me as a parent", per my W. Bleh.

Hawk, she actually showed up. I'd of given it a 50/50 chance. But it does appear she had ulterior motives. Bleh.

I need some time to think through all of this today. W says she can't talk to me today bc she's too angry to talk. Regardless, I need some feedback from her. At this point it's almost like I just want to be done with all of this. Is there anything wrong w/ just moving on with my life, knowing that I've done everything I could to fight for my family and my MR? Unsure I'm there yet, but damn this fight seems so impossible...

If she wants to be without me, then have at it. I don't need her stress. I don't need her crazy train. I don't need her.
I only need to keep bettering myself and working to protect my D and build our bond to be stronger. I'm a stronger person than my W and I know that now.


Me39
M11 : T13
D9
BD 5/31/16
In House S until 6/21/17
Divorced 10/5/18
lt0402 #2706624 09/26/16 02:55 PM
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Your D wouldn't want to be around you at all if she had any of the feelings for you your W says she does. Believe that, because it is true. She wants to be around you because she loves you and because you're a good father.

That a trained therapist, meeting your W for the first time, is able to conclude she has anger issues, is telling.


Me: 46
W: 44
Married: 17
Together 21
D13; S10
BD: 03.03.15 (Not attracted to you)
Almost 2 years trying, alone, to save marriage
Status now: Divorced (effective 06.13.17)
lt0402 #2706633 09/26/16 03:09 PM
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It was said a few weeks ago that MC would be a waste of time if she wasn't interested in R. I could have also been the wrong MC. They vary on what they advise. I would still be very cautious about moving out. Ask her to move out or at least have her leave the MBR since she is the one who had the A and wants out. When you discuss the MC tonight when the subject of who moves out comes up my answer would be, "You're the one who wants out, nobody is keeping you here, there's the door". Or, "this bedroom is for people who want to be faithful and married, you don't so I think you need to move to another room." Don't be pushed around. Remember, you are not driving this crazy train so there is no need for you to help it along.


Me:49 W:45
M:19 T:22
EA confirmed and ended 8/2014
S:19,17 D:9,5
lt0402 #2706634 09/26/16 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted By: lt0402

Is there anything wrong w/ just moving on with my life, knowing that I've done everything I could to fight for my family and my MR? Unsure I'm there yet, but damn this fight seems so impossible...

If she wants to be without me, then have at it. I don't need her stress. I don't need her crazy train. I don't need her.


LT, sorry to hear MC did not go in a more positive direction.
I don't think there's anything wrong with just moving on with your life. You'll know when it's your time. Don't rush into decisions. I don't have much advice other than make sure this S agreement benefits you. As I'm sure you will. hang in there!


Me(W): 29 EXW: 30
T: 6 M: 2
SD: 10
BD: 04/2016
PS: 04/2016
W officially "seeing" someone 09/2016
W filed 03/2017
Officially Divorced 11/2017
cheesyt #2706652 09/26/16 04:43 PM
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Lt, I'm very sorry to hear what happened, I really am. I know what it's like to go through what you just did. So I get it and don't want to heep more on you here. At the same time I'm really afraid if you don't take charge here your W is going to walk all over you on this.

First of all, did you set up this councilor or did W? I thought it was you but sounds like it could Have been her? Did you check out this MC at all? If not, why the hell not? You just rolled the dice on it being the right fit? MWD talks about this in her books. You have to get a pro M MC or you now see what can happens! I feel so bad for you but at the same time want to shake you and wake you up here. Don't let W decide YOUR future. For one, DO NOT MOVE OUT. Do you hear me? If W wants to S let her go. Stop doing ANYTHING for her. It's now your life and she doesn't matter anymore than a stranger walking the street. You must co parent for D but that's it. The rest is your life. I almost think that years from now you'll see. How lucky you are to be free if her crazy. But until then you must protect yourself and D. Odd enough standing up for yourself may be what turns this around should you still want that. You have to be in the driver seat. W has to get out. Make her run her life. Make her pay her way. Make her find a place too live. Call your L right away or W will orchestrate how this goes and not you

Again, I feel for you. I really do but it's now time to man up, GaL and show your W what life on her own is like.


DonH
Midwest
Me 56
WAW-EXW 55
Met 11/95 / Married 5/00
Bomb 6/20/05 / She Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06
4 who'd qualify as GF since D & dated about 25 women since D
DonH #2706662 09/26/16 06:45 PM
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W in a noticeably good mood tonight when I got home and when we put D to bed. Didn't talk to me, but we both joked with D. Just put D down and I went downstairs to discuss with her what then MC asked us to think about today. W said she didn't want to talk about it tonight. Then she said if I want to go back then make another appt. then she said she did not intend for it to go how it did today. Then she said, but what she said today is consistent with what she's been saying all along.

Unsure what to make of her going in 5 different directions there or what she means by "I did not intend for it to go the way it did today". To be honest, I feel like I'm being toyed with so I'm not even going to try to read into it. I'm not even sure what I want with her at this point. Again, a strange spot to be in.

I finished up the conversation by telling her I needed a day to think about if I wanted to do it and I would talk to her on Wednesday about it (GAL tomorrow evening). I'm really not sure if I want to go back into that fray with her. I'll discuss with the IC tomorrow.

Don, I did actively seek out a recommendation for the MC. She was highly recommended by my IC and works in the same practice. My IC recommended her bc she is pro M and she, as he put it, can see through people's BS. Needless to say I was surprised by the way the conversation went today. My IC has sent a bunch of people to her and she's had good luck helping them through their issues. Interested to get his thoughts tomorrow.

You are right about taking charge. I let her suck a couple good weeks from me with the thought of the MC and now I feel behind the 8-ball bc I haven't been as aggressive in righting the ship with regards to stuff with D and the house here. I've also let my GAL slack as I've let down my guard with my W. I will not get those two weeks back, but I can guarantee I won't let her lead me this way again. Right now I feel frustration more than anything. Not the same feelings I'd of had 1.5 months ago.

I'm not moving out. I'll consult my L tomorrow about all of this. But i definitely will not move out until AT LEAST a S and custody agreement is in place. Even at that point I'm not sure yet what we will do. Maybe we just sell the house and be done with it.

DonH, I appreciate both the shaking and sympathy from you as always. I'm becoming more hardened to this, but am still not where I need to be. Please continue the shaking as appropriate.

MV, yeah, I agree. Seemed like a long shot but it felt like one I had to at least pursue to get some clarity. Not planning on moving out. Only reason I can think of W not wanting to leave the mbr is bc its a power/ego thing for her. She wants to show she's in control. Right now the balance of control is still with her but I am going to continue to work to shift that. Thank you as always MV, wish there were a much easier way to exit this crazy train.

JR, I agree and that's one thing I know to be true. That my D loves me and wants me around. That said, I am going to be more proactive in getting myself wrapped into her school stuff as that's an area the W has controlled. I need to be fluent in how she operates there so I can help her grow. Also, I'll explore the "D doesn't trust you as a parent" thing W mentioned. May be some truth to that which I can proactively work to alleviate if there is. On the anger, yes, the MC saw that loud and clear. W got worked up in there for a few, plus W mentioned it was why she could not talk to me. W really does need IC help, regardless of what happens with us. For my Ds sake, I hope she gets it. Thank you JR, I'd still offer you explore MC with your W, even after this experience. I think you need to at least give it a try.

Cheesyt, thank you as always for your support my friend. I guess it could have gone worse and an asteroid could have crashed into the building or something! smile continuing to hang in there. I feel like moving on, but it's like something inside of me is still holding on. I can't quite put my finger on it. I can tell you that with each passing day and each glimpse of the new W, I feel further and further away from her. I'm assuming that's how detachment works, in that it's not a on/off thing but more of a sliding scale. Who knows.

So, I find myself very concerned about custody. I'm realizing that Ws view of custody (2hrs every weekday at her place + every other weekend + me getting to see her in snippets on Ws weekends) is merely a way for my W to keep control. Especially having my D at her place when I "visit" on the weekdays. Going to consult my L on how best to proceed on this. W has been asked to be head room mother for my Ds class again this year (20hrs a week of work) and W is convinced she can get a job to support herself while still getting D on the bus, as well as getting D off the bus seem to point to her being in lala land. Who knows, she's actually pretty smart and maybe she can swing it. I don't have a lot of trust in it though.

Running in the am (I am sooooo looking forward to this and need it right now) and then work and pool in the evening. Appreciate everyone's thoughts and guidance. I need to rework my goals in the next two days. Thanks again!


Me39
M11 : T13
D9
BD 5/31/16
In House S until 6/21/17
Divorced 10/5/18
lt0402 #2706702 09/27/16 04:53 AM
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OK, I'm going to skip over all the marriage and family stuff (because you'll get great advice there from people with more experience than I have) and go straight for the trivial detail. What kind of school requires 20 hours a week of parent volunteer time per week?

That's insane.


Me: 44
H: 44
Kids: 20, 16, 16, and 10
Together/Married: 22 years
H announced he was emotionally detached and considering D: 4/4/16
H announced he is going to try to stay and reconnect: 5/1/16
lt0402 #2706731 09/27/16 07:00 AM
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Two words for you. Shark lawyer!


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
sandi2 #2706823 09/27/16 12:59 PM
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Rose, W was the room mother last year and that's about the time she put into it each week. She does all sorts of stuff to help alleviate strain on the teacher + parties and other stuff. Not a requirement, but W has typically worked it like it was her job.

Sandi, I've reached out to my L to advise on how we should proceed following the MC session yesterday. I've told them my main concern at this point is the custody piece and how we get to a 50/50 split. Trying to brainstorm now on what that would look like. Open to anyone's thoughts who has been through this before.

thanks all!


Me39
M11 : T13
D9
BD 5/31/16
In House S until 6/21/17
Divorced 10/5/18
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