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Thanks, doodler. I guess that's where I am. I'll go, and I'll try, and I'll watch to see if there's a real attempt being made, but I really want to be detached as to the chances for "success", whatever that would look like. I don't see any other way to go at this point. That really goes for the R as a whole, doesn't it?

(I have my own IC already whom I've been seeing for 17 months now, and she really helped me save myself from the really abject, dark days immediately post-BD).


Me: 46
W: 44
Married: 17
Together 21
D13; S10
BD: 03.03.15 (Not attracted to you)
Almost 2 years trying, alone, to save marriage
Status now: Divorced (effective 06.13.17)
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Quote:
Part of me gets pretty nauseated at the idea that such an abusive jerk could destroy one family and land in a different one down the road and be happily content. I side with the first family, whether they knew how to enforce boundaries or not.


I don't know if the man is happy & content, or not. That was not my point. I make a lousy encourager b/c I was trying to give you some hope that people can change.

As for a WW going down the road and being happier with a second H.........if she has the same mindset, the chances are very slim, IMHO.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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sandi2 -- you do not make a lousy encourager. A depressed/upset LBS just isn't always capable of hearing the encouragement in every moment. I hope you'll keep swinging by my thread!


Me: 46
W: 44
Married: 17
Together 21
D13; S10
BD: 03.03.15 (Not attracted to you)
Almost 2 years trying, alone, to save marriage
Status now: Divorced (effective 06.13.17)
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,387
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JRuss -- box-checking or not, I would take a chance to go to an MC w/ my W; as opposed to having no MC.

Maybe the first question you can tackle together at MC is, "What do you honestly hope to gain from MC?" The implied question is, "Are we just box-checking? Or is this marriage -- at least in theory -- salvageable?"

I don't know why but I remain optimistic, that this isn't box-checking, that your W has at least a smidgen of doubt about where she's going.

I'm just projecting my situation onto yours, but if I had the chance to do MC with her, I would explore the question, "What do you think you're getting by doing a divorce?" And "Will you really be happy after a divorce?" "Won't your demons still be there?" And hope that the W will figure herself out first before causing collateral damage on the family for her own unhappiness.


Me: 50, MLC/WW 45
Young kids
Nov 2015: BD1
Apr 2016: BD2
Jan 2017: W filed
Feb 2017: D final
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ForGump -- I really have no idea how MC will go, what the counselor will do or say, whether my W will do any real talking or sit there and let me do it all. Not sure, but we'll find out!


Me: 46
W: 44
Married: 17
Together 21
D13; S10
BD: 03.03.15 (Not attracted to you)
Almost 2 years trying, alone, to save marriage
Status now: Divorced (effective 06.13.17)
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 703
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Originally Posted By: JRuss
focus22 -- I have a collection of inspirational quotes I've copied into my journal. I read them all the time, and it does help.

So today, after me trying to get my W to go to MC with me for over two years, and having pretty much given up on it ever happening (and nursing that grievance that someone could BD, want to blow up the family, etc. and never even try MC for even a second), she tells me today that, if I find a "neutral" MC, she'll "go with me".

I'm deeply skeptical that this is anything other than a guilt-reduction box she's checking. In our last R talk, I told her how I was having trouble moving past the anger I feel that we never even had the chance to go to MC and work together on our problems (I know -- a mistake), so I think she's just doing it, as I said, to reduce her guilt ("see -- it didn't work, and I'm justified") and, maybe, to give me some sort of closure. So my first impulse is to say no and that I'm only willing if I get real assurances that she's all in and motivated to build a new relationship.

But then I think it can't really hurt at this point. We are getting a divorce unless something happens to stop the momentum in that direction, and it has 2+ years of built up steam in that direction, with a lot of bad developments recently. Why not go, at least as long as I know going in that it probably isn't going to work a transformation of my marriage? Maybe it WOULD give me some closure and/or maybe it would help her and I get back to a place where we can at least co-parent effectively. And then there I go, also fantasizing a little that, despite being closed to the idea at the outset, the process might work on her a little and start breaking some of the barriers down that she's built.

Any thoughts?


JR, you have a lot of the same doubts that I have with my W suddenly offering to go to MC. I find myself wondering if she's checking a box, trying to alleviate guilt, trying to leverage it to get me to see her view of custody as the right one, or if she is "falling on the sword" for our D9 by staying with me since I won't give her the 90% custody she wants. Regardless, I'm taking the approach of going and using my Ws actions and level of interest to gauge what her intentions are.

You and I seem to be at a similar spot emotions wise. I feel like I'm at a spot where I am fine if things don't work out with my W. I look at this woman who I loved and I just don't see the same person. I also don't see any way that we can work back towards a R both of us can be happy in. I completely get your feeling lost with regards to not seeing how you can possibly R.

All that said, I'd offer you give the MC a chance, if only to see what her motivation is. If her motivation is not driven by fixing the MR then it's easy enough to shut down the MC. I do wonder if the MC is a way for our Ws to regain control, as I was at a similar spot as you when my W offered it. Who knows.

The confusion of all of this is driving me nuts as well JR. I think at this point we don't hold out hope for the MC, but we are open to putting in the work if our Ws are. The key is not to lose focus on bettering ourselves and being their for our kids while the confusion tries to steal our focus.

Hang in there brother and I hope the MC offer is a genuinely good thing. Like everything else in our situations, it appears to be a waiting game.


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I hope MC went well for you today, lt0402.

My weekend was pretty good. Lots of GAL -- took D12 to her cross country meet, D10 to his soccer game. Took D12 to church (our new tradition -- crazy what an agnostic (at best) Dad will do for a daughter) on Sunday. Worked out both days. Last night around sunset I went out and took a bunch of photographs on my phone then played with filters and cropped them, etc.

W and I did have a relatively mild R talk Sunday AM. She brought it up, which is not our usual MO. She said that she heard from our mutual friend that two other friends with whom W and I hung out last weekend (9/17) called mutual friend separately and asked if there was something wrong with me. I've lost a lot of weight, and they hadn't seen me for a while, and they said I was talking about not being able to sleep well. I don't really remember the conversation they are remembering but think it may have been something general like doesn't it stink not being able to sleep like we used to now that we're getting older, and I maybe chimed in that I wasn't sleeping all that great, too. I didn't think anything of it. I probably was a little down or more somber than usual, though, since my anniversary was going to be the following day, and it had become clear we weren't going to mark it all and that W likely wouldn't even mention it (which did end up being the case),and that was definitely bothering me at that time.

Well, this irritated W. She said if I can't be "less sad" when we go out, then we won't be able to do couples things anymore because she's "not ready to make an announcement" as to our status and "wouldn't even know what to announce".

I mainly just listened. It struck me as a bit of victim blaming. As I've thought about it more, W does get upset anytime she feels anything hinting at guilt or touching on the human cost of her decisions. Basically, I think she thinks we'll eventually create a public persona on the breakup and both say it was completely mutual, and she'll not have to be the bad guy in any of it. Well, I'm not doing anything but what I feel like doing on that front when the time comes, so there's bound to be more frustration on her part.


Me: 46
W: 44
Married: 17
Together 21
D13; S10
BD: 03.03.15 (Not attracted to you)
Almost 2 years trying, alone, to save marriage
Status now: Divorced (effective 06.13.17)
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,387
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This reminds me of conversations I have had w/ my IC -- where she encouraged me to express my feelings to my W, that what she's chosen to do is really hard on me. She thought being authentic and expressive is a part of not being a doormat.

But of course it conflicts a bit with DB, where we're supposed to act like we are detached and our W's have on effect on us.

Maybe we can be both. At least I'm being both. Detached much of the time but then also down some of the times.


Me: 50, MLC/WW 45
Young kids
Nov 2015: BD1
Apr 2016: BD2
Jan 2017: W filed
Feb 2017: D final
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,387
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p.s. JRuss -- I do think your wife criticizing you is definitely victim blaming. She's breaking your heart, and is blaming you for not being able to keep yourself together.


Me: 50, MLC/WW 45
Young kids
Nov 2015: BD1
Apr 2016: BD2
Jan 2017: W filed
Feb 2017: D final
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 638
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JRuss Offline OP
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I agree, FG, although I definitely did not intend to give anyone a look-see into my situation that night. The anniversary really got me down, though, so I'm sure I wasn't all that peppy. Honestly, I think the weight loss might have been the biggest thing. I think they were thinking I had some sort of systemic illness and never thought about marital problems.

My W doesn't understand how feelings work, I don't think. She feels guilt and blames me for making her feel it. She thinks I manipulate her and say things that are designed to make her feel guilty. I know we're supposed to validate, but this is BS, and I told her that if I had the power to make her feel anyway I wanted her to feel, I'd long ago have scattered my pixie dust and made her feel like I'm the greatest man in he world. I said I'm actually pretty self-interested in all of this, and my interests aren't served well at all by making her feel guilty, since it tends to drive her away. No real response to that from her.

I forgot to mention that she told me she's not going on a fall break trip with me and the kids. She said I could take them, or she would, but that she didn't want to go together, have to deal with separate bedrooms, etc. I'm definitely taking them. Talk about your no-brainer decision.


Me: 46
W: 44
Married: 17
Together 21
D13; S10
BD: 03.03.15 (Not attracted to you)
Almost 2 years trying, alone, to save marriage
Status now: Divorced (effective 06.13.17)
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