Things are pretty much the same here, the kids and I are happy. H visits for the weekends, and he looks as cold and distant as ever. We spoke about our future a couple of times, and things look pretty bleak, but I'm taking it reasonably well. Apparently his main wish is to be a "singe man" so I guess living alone 5 days a week is not enough for him. I explained that my position in divorcing has not changed, and he said something along the lies of "even if you don't sign it will go through in five years". So I don't know where that leaves us, I never suggested that I will not agree to a divorce one day, but I did say I will not be "amicable" or whatever it is called if we have not given it some time or trying first.
It's just so hard, I don't know why I even put myself through it sometimes. Is it really for the kids or am I just being stubborn?
"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"
“There is freedom waiting for you, On the breezes of the sky, And you ask "What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, What if you fly?”
I'm sorry that things are pretty much the same. He's going to look cold and distant because he needs that façade in order to get through the weekends. In his mind, he can't allow an inch of warmth to hit his soul because it will make him feel guilty for what he is doing. He needs to justify why he's doing what he's doing and he feels that you are being very stubborn on the divorce front.
Does he bring up the relationship/divorce talks or do you? If you are the one doing this, please step back for a while and just leave things be. Your response was good, but I don't think I would continue to have discussions about it. If he brings it up again, say something like this "h, we've had this discussion before and you know my stance on it" and then leave it be. The more discussions take place, the more determined he's going to be to do something about it. BTW, one thing that may keep him looking cold and distant is the fact that you are standing for your marriage and he knows that he hasn't been able to change your mind. He may think that by acting this way you will eventually give up and agree to the divorce.
I think, for the most part, you are fighting for your kids. However, I also think that you are very determined to save your marriage and there's no harm in that at all...but the discussions aren't helping you. Sit quietly for a bit, allow him to focus on something else besides discussions of divorce w/you. The next time he comes for a visit, have something baking in the oven that smells delicious and have discussions about the children, the weather or someone you know. I would find things to do in another part of the home or this would be a good time for you to take a walk and enjoy the fall weather. I may be wrong, but if he senses that things are a bit different there, he may very well drop that cold and distant façade for a bit.
Esame, I know it's difficult, but do try to keep the focus on you and your children.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
That suggestion about having something that smells delicious in the oven is golden. After my H left, even though I had a hard time eating, I tried to re-create "normal" once in awhile, especially when H came over. He always had to check on what was cooking and seemed very appreciative if I offered some to him. Its just part of being the lighthouse. And smell is a powerful memory stimulant.
Esame, it is hard. Only you can answer your question about who you're doing this for. My guess is that you are doing it for the kids, but you also love and miss him very much and are trying to sway him. We can't, you know. All we can do is be that warm loving person that they loved and try not to pressure them to fix themselves. That is my one regret in trying to DB. I didn't get it til recently. Every time H would respond positively when I just would "be the lighthouse" (loving, warm, kind at ease wife) I would end up asking him why he didn't want to be with me as we obviously enjoyed each other's company. R talk instigated, pressure felt, scared sad or angry H would take over. I think I sabotaged my own efforts due to impatience and he really couldn't trust any changes he saw.
But there's more. You're going to see him often with your arrangement. Job is right. Take the focus off of you and him. I think I'd even spend less time around him...just do pleasant drive-bys while he's there to interact with kids, discuss funny or important family things...fluff a pillow...water a plant...Don't give him a lot of info on you (be vague even if he asks) or ask after what he's been up to. Do ask after family or give a listen if he seems to want to talk, but again; no pressure or advice. And no R talk. Goodness that's hard! I've finally got it through my thick skull and my D papers are ready to be signed. Keep busting on, Esame. Your H hasn't made any sudden moves so he's still looking for something. Pull back and show him no pressure and be strong.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
Thank you Job and Ciluzen, your support is invaluable as always.
Job I initiated one of the talks weeks ago and the most recent one came up in conversation. I usually drink my STFUP smoothie but today we were going through S10's "communication book" from his school and apparently he has been upset quite a lot lately which is out of character for him. I asked H how he proposed to deal with it and that lead to a horrible conversation were he basically said that he is done and I should stop using the children against him. Obviously I lost it at that, because I did not make my son upset on most schooldays neither did I ask his teacher to communicate the extent of our child's distress with us. Loads of horrible things later I lost the last scrap of respect I ever had for him, his response to my comment about him looking angry was that he didn't want to give me hope (he has the emotional intelligence of a pancake) and then I said some things that are not DBing at all, but felt right at the time. Then I went running and later he took the boys out. When he was about to leave for his bachelor pad I said bye, and he was staring at me like he didn't know what to say or do. I explained that unless he wanted to apologise for all his insults there was nothing to say. I asked him to cut down his visits to every two weeks and to stay out of my way as much as possible when he is here. I was stil fuming after he left but S8 asked me "when will daddy spend longer with us" which obviously upset me even more, so I felt like I couldn't take half of their dad's visits away from them. So I messaged him that as long as he can take full responsibility of the children during the weekend so that we can communicate as little as possible I was ok with him visiting as often as he wants, if that doesn't work for him could he suggest what he would prefer to do.
I also said in that message that the reason why I don't want more interaction is because I don't want him to think that I am pursuing him and that all I care about is the children's happiness. I did swear at him too, but I needed that (and it doesn't seem like he cares about what I say anyway). I also told him that maybe he is mistaken when he thinks that he is god's gift to humanity and that not everything is about him. In hindsight that was unecessary. However, it's pretty clear what the man wants. I again maintained that he will not be getting a divorce from me before 2018 which coincidentally is the right time frame for a divorce after a separaon in the UK. I checked the divorce info for the first time after he left, I didn't even know the process.
Also I explained that the situation with S10 is real, and not me trying to use the kids or something. However as he finds the truth so unpleasant I will not be sharing anything like that any more, and if he cares about how the kids are doing in future he can contact their schools on his own. I'm not going to be the authority figure by more wherever possible.
Ciluzen I think my impatience has impacted the R talks, but realistically we have only spoken a handful of times in the nine months since he went crazy in February. I don't know how long I can keep busting for, he is leaving no space for any compromise of any kind. The only good think in the whole fiasco is that when he is here he is better with the kids (even that pre MLC) so that's something to celebrate.
I'm now dreading the call from the MIL tomorrow, he was supposed to let his parents know so that we can stop lying to them. I'm nowhere near ready to tell my mum, but that has to happen at some point too.
"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"
“There is freedom waiting for you, On the breezes of the sky, And you ask "What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, What if you fly?”
All we can do is be that warm loving person that they loved and try not to pressure them to fix themselves. That is my one regret in trying to DB. I didn't get it til recently. Every time H would respond positively when I just would "be the lighthouse" (loving, warm, kind at ease wife) I would end up asking him why he didn't want to be with me as we obviously enjoyed each other's company. R talk instigated, pressure felt, scared sad or angry H would take over. I think I sabotaged my own efforts due to impatience and he really couldn't trust any changes he saw.
This is a very insightful comment actually and very helpful. Sounds like the best strategy is just let him enjoy, period. Otherwise, it's like saying see look what I did for you, now what are you going to give me in return? You have to trust that repeatedly letting him just enjoy his time with you, he's going to feel it sooner or later and feel it is genuine and want more, not just regard it as a strategic move. They are selfish in an MLC and they only can receive not give but at least if you are giving then what they need and that is going to make them think positively of you.
Thank you for your reply 2Lady. I agree, it is a really insightful comment, our Ciluzen is full of wisdom.
Today is so hard, I had to inform the schools of the situation so they can keep an eye on the kids, and I did a little more research on the legalities. My mum called but I couldn't answer, she would understand straight away that something is wrong. Thankfully MIL hasn't called yet, probably H didn't tell them yet. We have an old mobile that I kept for the children's apps and games so I sent him the number so that he can communicate with the kids without me interfering, I will do my best to not get in the way of their relationship with their dad. It hurts so much that he is doing this to them, that he is so selfish and selfcentred. I don't know where to start, I knew things between us were bad but I thought that we could salvage some sort of relationship for the children. I was able to mourn the future I had planed for myself and H, and move on, but I'm struggling to see how this can be OK for the children. We have no family or support network here, and S10 is on the autistic spectrum. S8 had issues with confidence (possibly because of S10's behaviour towards him) and I struggled with S10's diagnosis and my own mental health issues. Luckily I still have that appointment booked for Wednsday (with a therapist) so that might be a starting point.
I need to gather the strength to speak to our families, and I need to decide what to tell the kids. I am afraid I am not able to speak to H at the moment, so that decision will have to wait. I am so angry that any kind of face to face conversation is impossible for now. Maybe once his parents come to visit next time we can all sit down and discuss about the future of the children, or mediation? I don't know.
I'm counting my blessings, we are healthy, and safe, but how can I stop blaming myself to the pain that my family is about to go through? I tried to shelter everyone for as long as I could, but how long can the situation stay like this?
"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"
“There is freedom waiting for you, On the breezes of the sky, And you ask "What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, What if you fly?”
I like your choice of title and reasoning behind it.
Word of caution. DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE man flu. I have heard scientist's explain it to women, by telling them the pain during childbirth is the closest ye will ever get to how bad man flu can be .
Best wishes
R 25 years M 14 years S11 & S13 Working on it alone since Oct 2014 M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years) Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr. Next R chat Aug'17 Still together
I'm having such a dilemma! I don't know if I should drop the DBing for good and try to move on or if I should start DBing from the beginning, rereading the books and prolonging what seems to be inevitable. I know people can change, and maybe H's MLC will come to an end one day, but I also know that the likelihood of it happening is pretty slim. On the other hand it might be kinder to the kids and my family if we take the scenic route, and it will give us all more time to adjust. Such a hard decision, I wish I knew what to do.
"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"
“There is freedom waiting for you, On the breezes of the sky, And you ask "What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, What if you fly?”
Esame, DBing isn't just about trying to save the marriage, it's a tool to help save you. One the most important things to do is to detach from his drama as much as possible, live your life as if he may not return and keeping the focus on you and your children. You can only control you and how you deal w/your life at the moment.
Unfortunately, you can't convince your h to do the right things, i.e., by reconciling and/or trying again. Once they enter crisis mode, they need to complete the crisis. I wish that I had a magic potion that would make things all better for each and every poster.
You don't have to make a decision at the moment as to what you think you want to do. From your postings, I don't think you are ready to give up on your marriage. If you aren't, sit quietly and allow the answers to come. Don't make decisions when you are hurt, angry or confused. It's best to allow things to settle down within you before doing so.
I'm keep you in my thoughts and prayers. Try to keep the focus on you and your family.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
