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#2705693 09/21/16 10:22 AM
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Hopefully this will link on from my previous 2 thread

First thread:

Feeling lost

Second thread:

Feeling lost 2

Last edited by job; 09/21/16 10:38 AM. Reason: Added a link to another thread
srt #2705706 09/21/16 10:48 AM
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srt,

Welcome to the MLC Forum. I'm sorry you are here, but we've got a lot of wonderful people posting here who will be happy to come by and visit w/you, i.e., support you, give advice and/or opinions, as well as just to talk about life in general. So, I'm going to paste Cadet's Welcome Posting here for you to begin some brand new homework. Read as much as you can about MLC and depression and if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask them.

Here's Cadet's Welcome Posting:
OK so that means MORE homework.

Welcome to this board.

The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy book by MWD,
Divorce Busting is also an excellent book.
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm

Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.

It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)

I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.

This POST is under reconstruction and we will be working on this as time goes by, this is the most current version.

I would start with the going dark link.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post50956

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2537289#Post2537289

Resources thread(last post only)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2592296#Post2592296

Things you should know as the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2701017#Post2701017

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Doormat Tactics
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1942444#Post1942444

Standing vs leaving
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1966340&page=1

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

Musings from AmyC
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2253741#Post2253741

MLC Signs
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2177869#Post2177869

The Final Stages Withdrawal to Acceptance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2074403&page=1

Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.

I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources.
You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.

Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!

Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.

I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.

Lets not worry about him/her. Lets work on you!
Start your homework assignments.
Something to DO while you are on moderation.
GAL.
Eat, sleep, exercise and take a deep breath.
In general take care of your self first.

Detach the single most important thing to DO.

Your H/W has given you a gift
THE GIFT OF TIME
use it wisely

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon

_________________________
Me-62, D30,S28


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2705709 09/21/16 10:58 AM
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Hi job, thanks for the link

for those who are unfamiliar with my sitch, I'll give a brief update

W and I continue to "date" but W is reluctant to call it this. She said she just wants to spend soem time together to see how she feels. This was after nearly 10 months of separation.

She says she wants to meet up, but doesn't really seem committed and is reluctant to make plans. However she keeps on doing it - I'm trying to ensure I'm not being pushy (v hard) and even suggests family things to do.

W had a major "breakdown" around 3 weeks ago (see last thread) and came round crying etc. She really opened up then, and putting things together really has confirmed for me she is in MLC.

I want to make sure I'm doing the right things, since she really did not like my DBing (in terms of NC and showing her what a D would look like) but so far does not seem to show the committment I'd need to be confident we could work it out.

Thoughts?


M 10, T 18
M: 36, W: 35, D: 8, S: 6
EA: Oct 12
ILYBINILWY: Jan 15
BD: Aug 15
Separated: Sep 15
Miss you: Jun 16
Aug 16: Dating (!)
Oct 16: Selfishness returns...
currently: disgusted
srt #2705755 09/21/16 02:24 PM
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Maybe she's looking at the time you spend w/her as just friends getting together. She doesn't want to classify as dating because it may up the expectations level and she doesn't want to give you the impression that she's softening up. You started out as friends and I would continue down the friends avenue for a while.

Are you the one that is always makng the plans to meet up? If so, turn the tables and allow her to do this. If she doesn't do it, then go on about your business.

If she's in MLC, it takes years for them to go thru the entire crisis. While she's doing so, work on yourself. Don't sit around waiting for her to call or meet up. Do things on your own and for yourself. When she senses that you are pulling away and living your life w/o her in it, she'll start to contact you. When she does, don't pursue her, just go about your normal day.

Again, friendship is the beginning of any relationship and that's where you will need to start at. Can you do this? Can you keep your expectations at zero or close to zero?


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2705758 09/21/16 02:36 PM
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Hi job, yes I do feel what you are saying does apply - I just find the lack of any forward planning rather hard to deal with.

Due to a couple of reasons: it is hard being on your own so I do like to have something planned for my evenings. I also do want to spend time with W but I'm not willing to sit around waiting on her if I can keep myself busy. Hence I don't want to waste an evening and like you say if she wants to be with me she'd better let me know. I just want to make sure I'm not coming across as "rejecting" when the reality is I don't want to be stuck at home.

This evening I've just had an invite to a meal out - trouble is it's way too little notice as I've sorted our family meal for tomorrow so think I'll pass on this one but suggest we do it at another time as it's not convenient. I know I shouldn't be but I'm annoyed she has suggested this so late, and also that there is no reason why she couldn't do this any other night than the one I have the kids for tea.


M 10, T 18
M: 36, W: 35, D: 8, S: 6
EA: Oct 12
ILYBINILWY: Jan 15
BD: Aug 15
Separated: Sep 15
Miss you: Jun 16
Aug 16: Dating (!)
Oct 16: Selfishness returns...
currently: disgusted
srt #2706210 09/23/16 02:37 PM
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Well another 2 days roll past and again I go through the full rollercoaster of emotions.

Went a walk last night with W, D & S since W did not want a late night. Walk was only 1/2 hour which was disappointing for me but I did not let it show and had a good time with S. W did not really make much effort to talk with me, which was a shame since our other dates meant we had a good catch up.

Tonight she arrived and then had stuff to say about her looks. She really seems obsessed about getting old and her appearance, this seems bizarre since I still think she looks amazing and my close friend has told me this too.

W seemed to go in the huff quickly tonight when asking about some item of clothing for D - I said we'd get it over the weekend but she went into complete escape mode at this and left within 30 secs. Not too sure what I've done wrong there but not going to get upset or dragged into it.

Wondering what the next steps are now. I have stepped back a bit and W is still suggesting we meet up but I feel like there is no progress to show for it i.e. no changes have been made.
I'm loathe to start a chat about relationship since W standard answer to tricky topics like this is "I don't know" - infuriating!!! especially since she has had a year to get to bloody know!

Not too sure about why to post all this other than to say we keep having contact but it doesn't seem to go anywhere. Also she is very limited in what she will do regarding a "date".


M 10, T 18
M: 36, W: 35, D: 8, S: 6
EA: Oct 12
ILYBINILWY: Jan 15
BD: Aug 15
Separated: Sep 15
Miss you: Jun 16
Aug 16: Dating (!)
Oct 16: Selfishness returns...
currently: disgusted
srt #2706233 09/23/16 07:14 PM
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srt

Wow, this is a tough call and I can understand your frustration but Mlc will take a long time and she may be unsure of her decision so she keeps checking back--

I think because the confusion is in them and has little to do with us or the M, she may not get the answers she is looking for or the happiness she wants by either staying or leaving…

I think this process takes time

Best bet as you are doing,,take care of you
find a hobby..golf, tennis ,yoga
make some new friends
get an animal
take a class
be a good friend to her but at same time create a new life without her since she is only willing to share a little bit of herself.
she may get curious
But most importantly, you will find other areas of interest to keep yourself busy and maybe a little less available-


married 14 years
H 42
bomb 2/07 IDLYA
D final 3 /09
M ow D ow
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Hi all, yes finding it very difficult for the above reasons - seems like mixed messages.

What I'm finding really hard is wondering how do I show my changes (since it's been so long since BD) if she is not around to see them. I wonder how much notice she is taking of me and my improvements (which I have done for me btw) and then panic.

I keep reading mlc takes a long time, and I know she is still having all the symptoms, but this is coming up for nearly 2 years of mlc behaviour and I'm starting to worry that this is it...... forever.

I know this is me focusing on all the negatives and giving her too much headspace, it's just when we are doing things on these "dates" I get the impression she isn't really that bothered about them.

Like I said I think all I can do is step down and see what happens, but this was one of my flaws before where I would rarely initiate any dates - time for a 180? or not since the feedback is not overwhelmingly positive?


M 10, T 18
M: 36, W: 35, D: 8, S: 6
EA: Oct 12
ILYBINILWY: Jan 15
BD: Aug 15
Separated: Sep 15
Miss you: Jun 16
Aug 16: Dating (!)
Oct 16: Selfishness returns...
currently: disgusted
srt #2706274 09/24/16 05:59 AM
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srt,

MLC will take as long as it takes and we urge folks not to focus on the timelines that have been posted over over again on the forums. Those timelimes are just estimates/guidelines and each and every person will have a different timeline because their crisis is as unique as they are. I hate to say it, but two years is a very short period of time. I'm sorry.

She notices the changes you are making. She may not be around you a lot, but she definitely notices changes and she will not say anything about them. She can also sense your moods and pick up on things by your body language and reactions.

Here's a thought, instead of going out w/her sometimes (when she suggests it), tell her you have other plans and go do something on your own. When you are readily available, it tells her that you are right where she left you and knows that you will be there for her. Sometimes we have to change up a bit in the way we do things w/them. You can't be old reliable all of the time. It's okay to plan other things and leave her guessing as to what you are doing. It will not discourage her from asking you again...don't be afraid to try new things. If something is working, fine, but if it's not, then try something else.

Keep your expectations at zero. Try to remember, she's depressed and there is no "joy" in her life right now. They go thru the motions and might find some joy, but it is short lived.

Try to keep the focus on you, start GALing, and give her plenty of space and time to work on herself. The less she focuses on you, the more time she'll have to focus on herself and hopefully look within and realize that happiness comes from within, not externally.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2706290 09/24/16 08:12 AM
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Hi job I really appreciate the reply. I just think I'm struggling since I've been doing these things for so long now but it doesn't feel like much is changing. Guess like you say I need to focus on me for a while again


M 10, T 18
M: 36, W: 35, D: 8, S: 6
EA: Oct 12
ILYBINILWY: Jan 15
BD: Aug 15
Separated: Sep 15
Miss you: Jun 16
Aug 16: Dating (!)
Oct 16: Selfishness returns...
currently: disgusted
srt #2706301 09/24/16 11:28 AM
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Keep the focus on you. Things are changing...but very, very slowly. Have you heard the old saying "a watched post never boils"? I apply that to people in crisis and the lbs is looking for changes in them. Changes for the crisis person has to happen internally and we can't see those changes taking place. So, be patient and continue moving forward.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2706864 09/27/16 03:26 PM
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Argh, having a bad day today with trying to sort out childcare arrangements with w during upcoming holiday.
W wanted to go out for a meal with kids to agree this - an arrangement which gives me no say in terms of when I get the kids. Also knew their would be conflict as w basically has started to make plans again before sorting out times.
I've refused saying we need to sit down and talk about this so it is not a problem as Easter and summer were.
W has not done this and now wants to play the "I'm being awkward" card.
She ended up saying she would just be taking them regardless. I did not react well to this and said that I would not be agreeing to that.

I'm so sick now of feeling like I'm second best in this. I've said to her we needed to sort this as w has some "dating" idea and I was unsure if she would want to do family days during hols.
Going to go dark for a few days as she has had many chances to get this sorted but so far has avoided it, tonight included.

Trying not to let this get to me, I'm just annoyed at her selfishness. Will ensure I plan some awesome days just for me and kids during holidays to make up for this.


M 10, T 18
M: 36, W: 35, D: 8, S: 6
EA: Oct 12
ILYBINILWY: Jan 15
BD: Aug 15
Separated: Sep 15
Miss you: Jun 16
Aug 16: Dating (!)
Oct 16: Selfishness returns...
currently: disgusted
srt #2706865 09/27/16 03:30 PM
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srt,

I'm sorry that the childcare arrangements aren't going well. How about doing a calendar and both of you filling in the blocks so that you both know when and where and how to work out the "kinks" on childcare issues? Some separated parents do this and it's helpful to refer back to it if you need to.

Just a thought...


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2706867 09/27/16 03:54 PM
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srt

Selfishness and Entitlement are just part of this MLC thing. Sorry to tell you its just a part of the whole package and for me are indicators that the crisis is alive and well.

I can not tell you what will happen for you and your sitch as they are all different but I will say for mine the holidays always sparked movement as my W/STBW/Running out of things to call her ... is/was very family based and Thanksgiving/Christmas are the high conflict days. I pretty much give up Christmas as she likes to take S up to her parents and he can celebrate with the big family .. cousins and the sort ... Thanksgiving we split. For me the day does not matter as S and I celebrate our own way on our own time with new traditions and all.

Its hard at first, but know even though she may not show it its hard for her to ... be the rock and pick your battles but above all things put those little ones first ... they are whats most important during this time and will thank you for not making bad memories over what should be looked back on as good times.


M: 48
W: 47
M16 T26-S8
BD Sept13



CaliGuy #2706869 09/27/16 04:01 PM
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I'm just pissed as I have said all along we need to arrange when we have them in advance so we can both make plans. She then fails to do this despite me mentioning it every time hols come up in conversation.
Fed up of feeling like a doormat on this. No one is ever going to be able to get what they want in the holidays every time but it feels like I'm always getting the dregs...


M 10, T 18
M: 36, W: 35, D: 8, S: 6
EA: Oct 12
ILYBINILWY: Jan 15
BD: Aug 15
Separated: Sep 15
Miss you: Jun 16
Aug 16: Dating (!)
Oct 16: Selfishness returns...
currently: disgusted
srt #2706880 09/27/16 05:07 PM
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Get a separation agreement done up, protect your rights as a parent .... Spew will come but just keep your eyes focused on what's important


M: 48
W: 47
M16 T26-S8
BD Sept13



CaliGuy #2707630 10/01/16 02:04 PM
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Another check in folk.

This has been a very tough week. W accusing me of being awkward over holiday arrangements - W unable to understand that what she wants or says is what has to happen for hols.

Finally got it arranged after 2 terrible phonecalls and having to go round to hers. The spew and insults thrown around though make me wish I hadn't bothered and just left it, however I thought it would be best just to get it arranged.

Cue now W being distant and b@tchy about things. She also doesn't like it that "I don't tell her anything".

Wondering now how to conduct myself in this sitch. She has previously said she wants to date, but reality didn't seem the same as she was always reluctant or tired or ....... you get the picture.
She had no problem however going on a "date" if children were involved, especially if it was in my time.

I feel I have been dragged back in and re-attached (I know, I know) yet now really see she is still deep within MLC, prior to this week I thought she had been making some progress and seeing some sense, guess this just shows how wrong I was, or how erratic she can be.

I'm thinking now to step completely back and basically go as dark as I can with kids again. However I'm not sure if this is the right things to do or not. She has said she hates this, but equally has done nothing to resolve it, only words - no actions.

Starting to lose the will to save this too, I can't see her changing her attitude or accusations towards me since she has always seemed selfish in regards to children and her family with little time for me and mine.

What do people suggest?

srt #2707631 10/01/16 02:11 PM
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I should add I was talking close friend last night about this and asking his opinion and what other close family friends were saying and thinking. (friends which are on her side of the family - he is somehow related to me through my W side)

He said others were clear of the opinion she is in MLC due to lots of reasons - getting tattoo, moving out, more drinking, endless facebook "happy" stories, spending money etc.
I was asking him what they honestly thought, not what I wanted him to tell me and that's what he said. He said many simply said I'd be better off without her.

This got me thinking since it wasn't anything like that I was looking for, just some kind of reality check in that what I was observing was the case - just incase I'd gone cuckoo and was imagining or wishing things to be MLC. From the sounds of it I'm not the only one who thinks this is what is going on.


M 10, T 18
M: 36, W: 35, D: 8, S: 6
EA: Oct 12
ILYBINILWY: Jan 15
BD: Aug 15
Separated: Sep 15
Miss you: Jun 16
Aug 16: Dating (!)
Oct 16: Selfishness returns...
currently: disgusted
srt #2707633 10/01/16 02:20 PM
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srt,

Sorry you had a rough week, but it's behind you now. I would suggest that you go a bit dark and only contact her if it's an emergency. Allow her to come to you when she's ready. If she contacts you, keep the conversation civil/light and if she starts to get nasty, say something like this "w, I'm sorry you feel the way that you do, but I'm going to hang up now. I will be more than happy to discuss things w/you when you aren't angry". You don't need to sit there and take the spew and insults. You can only control yourself and if it gets out of hand, hang up or walk away. You are not her whipping boy.

I know you are still trying to convince yourself it's MLC, but the only person's opinion that matters is yours. Everyone has an opinion, and sometimes it's not what you want to hear. So, be careful when asking for those opinions...it opens up doors that you may not want to have opened right now.

Continue to focus on you and your children. Going dark or no contact is for you. It helps you to detach and again, you don't have to be in the line of fire for her spew and insults. I wouldn't invite her to do things w/you and the children since she has her own visitation time w/them. Give her some space for a bit. Once she gets that anger out of her system, she'll contact you and act nothing has ever taken place, i.e., the spewing and insults.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2707636 10/01/16 02:48 PM
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Hi job, thanks for the reply.

I suppose I was looking for affirmation of my opinion she is in mlc. As I've said before, now 1+year from BD I'd have hoped she would have made some progress in sorting her issues but I guess that is for her to own. I know these things take time too....

What do you mean by opening up doors? I don't think I understand the point you are trying to make.

You echoed my thoughts on contact. Prior to last week most of the anger and spew had gone, it was disappointing to have to deal with that again and I wished I'd just bailed out now by saying I'm not tolerating anyone speaking to me like that. As for the future yes I'm just going to act as if (although dealing with the hurt and anger I now have about this is tough - watch out my next physical GAL activity is going to get a roasting!!!)


M 10, T 18
M: 36, W: 35, D: 8, S: 6
EA: Oct 12
ILYBINILWY: Jan 15
BD: Aug 15
Separated: Sep 15
Miss you: Jun 16
Aug 16: Dating (!)
Oct 16: Selfishness returns...
currently: disgusted
job #2707638 10/01/16 03:06 PM
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She does sound like she's in MLC because of some of the things she's done. However, you are the only one that can determine if she is in MLC because you know her and what she's been like in the past. Does she appear to be confused and emotional a large majority of the time? Does she appear to be depressed? If you answer those questions w/a yes, then she is most likely in crisis and not just a walk away.

When I said opening up doors, I meant asking people for their opinions on her, what she's doing and your situation. When you ask others their opinions, you are "inviting" them to express their opinions and those opinions may not be what you want to hear and/or open up discussions about the situation. People who aren't familiar w/how MLC affects others do not understand the process. It is an emotional and for some a spiritual journey. Some will say that you need to let her go, move on and start dating...what they are trying to do is push your healing process along because they don't want to see you said and hurt...but until they walk a mile in your shoes, they will not understand what her journey is all about and why she's on it.

They are very emotional during the crisis and the anger can flare up at any time. They are angry at the world, at themselves and at you and the relationship. They have stuffed their emotions for so long that they have to spew like a volcano sometimes and then it dies down. Sometimes they are just angry about something and they sound off "at" us about it and we may not even be the target for the anger.

Here's something you may want to try. The next time she's spewing or the anger is present, change the subject, i.e., about the children and what they are doing or the weather. You may find that it throws her off her angry spew and she may very well settle down. I did this quite often w/my xh, i.e., one minute he was civil, the next an angry man and when I changed the subject, he reverted back to being civil.

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Hi job, thanks for the prompt reply.
I agree with all you are saying above. I've really had my faith tested this week (I'm not religious at all) but do believe in M and the family unit.
I think I'll just lay low for the near future and see what happens. No point in goading the monster, wonder if she will apologise this week (no expectations though!)
Thanks for the tip about what to do mid spew, I'll try this the next time.
Peace smile


M 10, T 18
M: 36, W: 35, D: 8, S: 6
EA: Oct 12
ILYBINILWY: Jan 15
BD: Aug 15
Separated: Sep 15
Miss you: Jun 16
Aug 16: Dating (!)
Oct 16: Selfishness returns...
currently: disgusted
srt #2708963 10/08/16 01:02 AM
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Going to update you all again on this week; Nothing to report from this week wink

Continued my GAL activities, but was quite physically tired so had a couple of nights rest at the end of the week. My parents were out of town, which did make me worry about the support I have but I was fine.

Interactions with W have been upbeat but has not suggested any more "contact". Feel kind of stuck with this now as (I'm sure I've mentioned many times before) she says she wants to see me but doesn't follow through. If I push she generally retreats, one of my flaws before was I generally didn't initiate dates etc, W was far more active at this. However this was generally due to W family, she does very little without them and we have both always found the MIL controlling.

I'm also concerned that W seemed only willing to meet when I have kids. I've been given the suggestion that we rota "dates" if they get started again. Holidays will be upon us soon and again I can't help but feel that is another couple of months wasted where we could have been working on "us" but I guess it takes two to tango. We have arranged one day we will do stuff as a family but I do get anxious about these as the whole situation seems so surreal, I still can't believe it has happened at times.

Other news is I have been googling the h@ll out of MLC and just about every list of signs I can find has a majority of things on it that W is doing. However this offers me no comfort as the only thing she has not done yet (or that I'm not aware of) is a PA with an OM. Replay behaviours still seem high up on her list of priorities. I now realise she has been in an MLC funk for much longer than I thought, hopefully this means she might exit this sooner.... smile

Again I appreciate all comments and advice.

srt #2708964 10/08/16 01:07 AM
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Hi job, just remembered your message about "Once she gets that anger out of her system, she'll contact you and act nothing has ever taken place, i.e., the spewing and insults."

How weird it is that they are so confused like this. When W last came in she looked like she had been upset (red, bloated eyes) like she had been crying, but says nothing about it and is polite and pleasant to me.

I figure this is just part of their confusion. The other thing W is doing is lots of shopping trips/city breaks. She seems now to have an obsession about travelling by train!


M 10, T 18
M: 36, W: 35, D: 8, S: 6
EA: Oct 12
ILYBINILWY: Jan 15
BD: Aug 15
Separated: Sep 15
Miss you: Jun 16
Aug 16: Dating (!)
Oct 16: Selfishness returns...
currently: disgusted
srt #2709007 10/08/16 08:44 AM
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Don't assume that her replay will be over soon. It will take as long as it takes and it could be a while longer. Don't base your assumption on comparisons. Yes, comparisons are good markers, but each person is unique, their issues are unique and how they deal w/their crisis will be unique. Bottom line...it will take as long as it takes. Okay?

Yes, they are very confused because it's emotional and let's face it, emotions are all over the place and one minute they think this and the next they think that. They are like the little ball in a pinball machine, i.e., bouncing all over the place.

I'm not surprised to read that her eyes were swollen and red. They all have times when they cry and they will not tell you why. Some cry when they leave the house after visiting, some cry in the driveway before coming in and others cry at the drop of a hat and we will not know the reasons why. It could be the guilt and shame eating at them, it could be because they are confused and can't understand why they are where they are at the moment, etc. I'm glad you didn't ask her about it. If she wants to talk, she will and you just listen, as a good friend would do.

Sounds like she's trying to find ways to ease her pain.

Continue to keep the focus on you. What are your plans for the weekend?


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2709027 10/08/16 10:36 AM
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Hi job, thanks for the pep talk! Little things like this really do help me keep the train on the track.

Currently feel a bit of a mess, emotionally tired, the duration of the sitch and current stalling of any progress are getting to me. I need to get busy tomorrow.

Today had a nice time with S&D. Had a morning at the park and some shopping, then cinema this afternoon. Currently fixing them up some tea.

Yes I do agree with you about her seeking something to ease her guilt and/or pain. When she gets defensive she is quick to point out some pretty minute details of how her life is better, yet I know through friends and family that she is not content at the moment (although her facebook is going overtime to try and "prove" it).

I kinda wish her family would wake up to the fact that she is emotionally not well, and needs help. I keep thinking that they resent me and are using this sitch to turn her against me even though this was all her choice.

Not sure how to finish this up, other than I was talking to my friend about how I was feeling and then said nothing is going to change in the next 12 hours, I wish I could just get some mojo back! I think I need to take my own advice. smile


M 10, T 18
M: 36, W: 35, D: 8, S: 6
EA: Oct 12
ILYBINILWY: Jan 15
BD: Aug 15
Separated: Sep 15
Miss you: Jun 16
Aug 16: Dating (!)
Oct 16: Selfishness returns...
currently: disgusted
srt #2709040 10/08/16 11:40 AM
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srt,

I'm sorry that you are feeling a bit of a mess and yes, I do understand being emotionally tired. This journey can do that to you if you allow it to do so. That's why we continue to say "keep the focus on you and your family". No one can predict how they will be from one minute to the next and trying to figure them out is like the hamster on the wheel.

I want to just say this about the current stalling of any progress. If you are referring to her, don't assume anything. We can see what is happening within them. They don't have open wounds/scars that we can see, but their emotional growth has been badly bruised and it takes time for that to heal properly. God is working on her each and every minute of the day and you have to have faith that he will guide her and heal her. Wounds take time to heal and they didn't just happen. It tooks for them to crack open and begin to ooze, therefore, it's going to take some time for them to heal and hopefully she'll be a far more mature and responsible woman when her crisis is over. Also, you need to remember that she's not operating on your time clock. She's on her own clock and that one is very, very slow. Dig deeper for patience. I know you are frustrated, but it all does take time.

I'm glad you had a nice time w/S&D at the park. Sounds like a busy day, but it's made up of some fun and relaxing things.

As for her family, blood is thicker than water, and sometimes it takes a long time for them to realize that you aren't the problem. You have no idea as to what she's told them, so continue as you have been and try not to worry about what they are thinking because one day, they will see clearly.

Continue as you have been, keep the focus on you and your family and leave her in God's hands for now.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2709531 10/11/16 01:45 PM
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I feel like I'm cracking under this now frown

Talk from the kids about her getting a bigger house and a dog (wtf! she hates dogs!) is driving me nuts. W waltzes in with a "happy" look, when I know in her eyes she is not. Why are they so fake? Her facebook is littered with "lifestyle" pictures, but she is paranoid about getting old, and feels she has terrible wrinkles.

This is one h@ll of a rollercoaster. If I rewind myself back to spring, I had accepted the current sitch. The current state of play with a stalemate due to her demands about holidays is driving me nuts. I feel I want to hit her with an ultimatum, but I know this will do no good. I'm tired of feeling sad around my kids, yet I know a D will not help. I'm GAL'ing as much as I can, almost to the point it is making me ill. I feel far too invested in this M, but that my W has taken me for granted.

What is annoying me the most is her lip service to "trying". She sat in counselling as said she wanted to when I didn't unless she was committed. She has since done nothing more than a walk or soft drink at a bar. She now only seems to want to meet up in my time when I have the kids. This show no commitment in my eyes and is actually harder for me than not meeting up. Her reluctance to progress this in any manner seems like a signal to me that she is unwilling to work on the M. I should not be surprised since I know this is a sign of mlc, but I feel done. I want to stand but I'm starting to wonder the point.

I have no doubt we had and can have a fantastic marriage, but I cannot do it all myself. Equally I don't want the worry of someone not "all in" and the feeling they might not be there when I get home. It is going to take a lot of work from her to rebuild the trust needed in our R and I don't see her willing at the moment.

I know I'm now rambling, and probably it's just the hurt coming out, but I'm starting to doubt my strength. Another piece inside me is also wondering what will happen if things suddenly get serious and her "fantasy" starts to collapse around her. However I'm then scared of getting the answer I don't want to the question I've dared not ask.

I know I need to think this all over, 48 hours and all that.

srt #2709646 10/12/16 08:22 AM
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jeez what mental anguish over the last 24 hours.

In a bid to calm my nerves I have been listing the signs I see of my W mlc - currently at near on 3 pages of A4. Not quite sure why I'm doing this other than to ease my feelings of guilt that there was something I could do about this.

Over the next day I'm going to list my good/bad points and start to set myself some targets and goals so I can retake some control over my life for me. I now know I've been dragged back in to this and it is not healthy if W is not willing to work on M.
Hopefully this will keep me busy and might even uncover a few gems.

As always I'm grateful for those that read about my sitch, please do drop by and if nothing else say hi as it all helps smile


M 10, T 18
M: 36, W: 35, D: 8, S: 6
EA: Oct 12
ILYBINILWY: Jan 15
BD: Aug 15
Separated: Sep 15
Miss you: Jun 16
Aug 16: Dating (!)
Oct 16: Selfishness returns...
currently: disgusted
srt #2711474 10/21/16 03:41 AM
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Hi folks, been a while since I've been on here and calmed down a lot since then smile

I've been reading a lot on here about other peoples sitches and now really we really all are very unique in our cirumstances.
Regarding my sitch nothing much has changed. Very little forthcoming from W, no more "dates" though we did spend a family day together.

One thing I'd like a little guidance on from reading other threads is how do I approach these family like things? W does not really invite me or include me in any, yet seems peeved I do not invite her. I am positive she is being very selfish with this and do not wish her to get the wrong idea of what it would be like if we D. I should add I still love her and want to work this out, just want to make it work.

On our recent "family" day the discussion did get to R. W was visibly uncomfortable with this, and was saying she wanted to "get herself better" before R. I asked what she meant by this and she mentioned various health issues. When I said what happens if you don't get better she just said "then I die".
I'm not sure I get what "getting better" has to do with our M?
Other than that the day went well, although W declined an invite for tea with us, guess she is still not ready to start working on anything.
Just rambling on now. Appreciate any and all comments, thanks


M 10, T 18
M: 36, W: 35, D: 8, S: 6
EA: Oct 12
ILYBINILWY: Jan 15
BD: Aug 15
Separated: Sep 15
Miss you: Jun 16
Aug 16: Dating (!)
Oct 16: Selfishness returns...
currently: disgusted
srt #2711477 10/21/16 04:29 AM
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SRT

I hear your frustration with this- and I understand how hard it is

The only thing I can say is TIME-
If she feels she is sick and needs to get better, there is not much you can do except support her-validate her-be her friend
and let her go as she wishes-
Hopefully she is in therapy

If she is in MLC-then it takes a lot of time -at least a few years-

She may want to hold on to the Family and you- while she steps into the world to see what its like

You can choose to be there for her without pursuing or pushing while at the same time start creating a new life for you
Counseling will help you as well-
Grieving the old M and letting go
Read about letting go and detachment
12 step meeting like CODA or Alanon offer techniques and support for letting go ( free)
Taking good care of you and your kids

We have to let go of the old to create whats ahead and because we dont know the future we have to make choices today that will be in our best interest-No matter what our spouse decides
Your wife seeing you supportive of her while also moving on a little may arise some curiosity in her
Hang in there..


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D final 3 /09
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Hi Peacetoday, I really just don't know what to do, sometimes my sitch seems hopeless.

I want to know how "getting better" affects US, ie why wait for that? In what way does it determine the outcome of M?

I should also say W still says she has no self confidence. I asked if she had sought help about all this w doctor. She said no and I know she is not in therapy either.

However she has no problem going on road trips with her family and posting pictures all over facebook about how wonderful it is. It's like she has a split personality, or a public and private face.

I know I need to GAL, just wanting to make sure I'm not doing any more damage with my actions. I know I need to support her as best I can, but I don't want her to eat cake by wanting to spend my parental time with kids but never offering hers.


M 10, T 18
M: 36, W: 35, D: 8, S: 6
EA: Oct 12
ILYBINILWY: Jan 15
BD: Aug 15
Separated: Sep 15
Miss you: Jun 16
Aug 16: Dating (!)
Oct 16: Selfishness returns...
currently: disgusted
srt #2711585 10/21/16 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted By: srt
Hi folks, been a while since I've been on here and calmed down a lot since then smile

I've been reading a lot on here about other peoples sitches and now really we really all are very unique in our cirumstances.
Regarding my sitch nothing much has changed. Very little forthcoming from W, no more "dates" though we did spend a family day together.

One thing I'd like a little guidance on from reading other threads is how do I approach these family like things? W does not really invite me or include me in any, yet seems peeved I do not invite her. I am positive she is being very selfish with this and do not wish her to get the wrong idea of what it would be like if we D. I should add I still love her and want to work this out, just want to make it work.

On our recent "family" day the discussion did get to R. W was visibly uncomfortable with this, and was saying she wanted to "get herself better" before R. I asked what she meant by this and she mentioned various health issues. When I said what happens if you don't get better she just said "then I die".
I'm not sure I get what "getting better" has to do with our M?
Other than that the day went well, although W declined an invite for tea with us, guess she is still not ready to start working on anything.
Just rambling on now. Appreciate any and all comments, thanks


It sounds like a fair bit of pursuing (the R talk, the invitation to tea). Have you considered doing a 180 on pursuit?

I would probably stop inviting her to family things for a while. There are worse things than having her be peeved. It sounds like she isn't motivated to work on things, so give her space to figure out what she wants.


Me: 44
H: 44
Kids: 20, 16, 16, and 10
Together/Married: 22 years
H announced he was emotionally detached and considering D: 4/4/16
H announced he is going to try to stay and reconnect: 5/1/16
srt #2711587 10/21/16 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted By: srt
Hi Peacetoday, I really just don't know what to do, sometimes my sitch seems hopeless.

I want to know how "getting better" affects US, ie why wait for that? In what way does it determine the outcome of M?

I should also say W still says she has no self confidence. I asked if she had sought help about all this w doctor. She said no and I know she is not in therapy either.

However she has no problem going on road trips with her family and posting pictures all over facebook about how wonderful it is. It's like she has a split personality, or a public and private face.

I know I need to GAL, just wanting to make sure I'm not doing any more damage with my actions. I know I need to support her as best I can, but I don't want her to eat cake by wanting to spend my parental time with kids but never offering hers.


I can think of at least four ways her health issue could be tied to the R:
- She needs to make diet or lifestyle changes, and she thinks you won't make them with her and it will be harder for her to make them while with you.
- The R takes up time that she feels she needs to spend on health issues.
- The R is hard. The health stuff is hard. She doesn't have mental or emotional energy to work on both at the same time.
- The health stuff is only as excuse to stall you because she isn't ready to work on ithe R now, but she doesn't want to say she'll never work on the R

Don't waste time trying to figure out which it is.


Me: 44
H: 44
Kids: 20, 16, 16, and 10
Together/Married: 22 years
H announced he was emotionally detached and considering D: 4/4/16
H announced he is going to try to stay and reconnect: 5/1/16
Rose888 #2711767 10/23/16 01:54 AM
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Hi Rose, forgot to thank you for these.
Yes you are right I'll never know the true reason for why she said that, it does feel very frustrating though when I want to be able to help her.
Still find the whole lack of effort from her very frustrating. Actions speak louder than words, but so far her lack of action is speaking volumes to me.
Yet despite all this she says she does not want to get divorced?? Very confusing.
Guess I need to just step back and busy myself with something more rewarding.
Thanks again


M 10, T 18
M: 36, W: 35, D: 8, S: 6
EA: Oct 12
ILYBINILWY: Jan 15
BD: Aug 15
Separated: Sep 15
Miss you: Jun 16
Aug 16: Dating (!)
Oct 16: Selfishness returns...
currently: disgusted
srt #2711795 10/23/16 09:14 AM
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I think if she is verbalizing she does not want a D--That is hopeful

Many of us get the exact opposite, and at Bomp drop our MLCer is pretty clear is OVER
and D is looming and thats my story

I think you are right

Give her space
No R talks
Dont ask her what she means instead
try to validate her
even if you dont understand it-talk to someone else like us or a counselor that is on board with these techniques
validation can be done by a nod, eye contact, a reply like -I hear what your saying
try not to advise her just listen
Listening means a lot to women
remember this takes a lot of time if its MLC-you can't force her through it
take care of you..find a hobby
learn an instrument, read, make model airplanes, go fishing
let her see you are taking care of you while balancing being there for her-
good luck


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Updating again so I don't get too far behind on my sitch.

peacetoday: thanks for the reminders, I'v ebeen pretty good I think at following most of these, although all of us can always improve in some way.


In other news I had a great holiday with the kids, lots of days out and seeing stuff. Also visited some relations which was great fun, kids loved it and were amazingly well behaved, made me very proud.

However starting to feel a bit down again since back to work and usual routine - my GAL stuff kicks in then but hard to stem the feeling of disappointment that not much is changing in my sitch.

W behaviour has been erratic again as usual. She even brought a gift at one point for me which caught me unawares but I was appreciative of. She has also been fairly pleasant although did keep asking where "we" were during hols - like checking up on kids and our activities. It's like she is angling for an invite to something, yet I haven't been asked out by her to anything. Family have told me that is tough for her - she left and therefore has not right to know what we are up to, if she wants that she knows what actions re the R she has to do. Suggestions on how to manage this would be really helpful - I don't think I am ready to invite her on all these activities as it definately feels like cake-eating to me, yet at the same time I also feel sometimes I am "punishing" her by not responding straight away or giving minimal information. I know this may be my issue to sort (my feeling on it), and just stay dark but it is often on my mind.

I counter this against her radio silence during the other part of our holidays when she has children. She also never brought them round for Halloween (although I didn't ask - no pursuit and all that). She also seemed really pissed kids had a good time with me and were not falling over to cuddle/jump on her at changeover. This attitude may also have been due to not getting asked to any events with kids in my time. She had D in tears while waiting in the car whist S was getting changed at changeover - she was pissed at me because he was not ready to go at the instant she arrived. My parent have said that this is because she may wish for the kids to remain dependant on her - MIL has real issues with this and has intruded in the past and passed traits of this onto W.

I'm continuing to hang back and go dim, giving her space etc, but I'm not sure if this is working tbh. Equally any form of "pursuit" is usually rejected too so I guess I can't win smile
She has said though that "I never speak to her" etc so I guess she is noticing I'm withdrawing.

Not sure what my next moves should be - I'd like to get the dating going again but realise it is pointless unless she wants to. I did suggest last time we spoke about it that we do it on a rota so no one feels like they are losing out on contact time with the kids, but then I think really, if it comes down to that, how important is the M to her? And that is my conundrum as I don't want to pursue, yet she has openly admitted she has no self-confidence so I doubt she will pick up the courage to ask me. I may simply ask her what she thinks about our last conversation sometime, since I asked her to get back to me and nothing as of yet...

It took us until the point of counselling at which we were told we should basically get divorced (since she was unwilling to change anything) for her to say "no - I don't want that" yet she has never came out and committed and said she wants to fix our R - just "try it and see what happens" frown
I'm not sure if that is enough for me, but I also know I have real trouble keeping my expectations at zero.

The problem I have at the moment is I really don't feel I'm making any progress at all with ME. I've done my GAL and all the other stuff but really don't like the way things are. I realise I should be grateful for what I have, and lots in my life is good, but I must admit I am struggling to fill this gap. I know time will heal, but I'm not sure she is making any progress, and know I even doubt MLC!!! That is how crazy I now feel.

Hope this makes sense when other read it back - I've jumped about a lot and re-edited. Looking forward to some constructive criticism and insightful comments. Sometimes I feel I get a pretty easy ride compared to others in here.... laugh


M 10, T 18
M: 36, W: 35, D: 8, S: 6
EA: Oct 12
ILYBINILWY: Jan 15
BD: Aug 15
Separated: Sep 15
Miss you: Jun 16
Aug 16: Dating (!)
Oct 16: Selfishness returns...
currently: disgusted
srt #2715957 11/14/16 11:50 AM
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still here, just giving this a bump to see if anyone can offer me any words of advice

I still get the feeling W is trying to reach out - just wondering if the step of me making the effort to jump the gap is the right thing to do or not.....


M 10, T 18
M: 36, W: 35, D: 8, S: 6
EA: Oct 12
ILYBINILWY: Jan 15
BD: Aug 15
Separated: Sep 15
Miss you: Jun 16
Aug 16: Dating (!)
Oct 16: Selfishness returns...
currently: disgusted
srt #2715975 11/14/16 01:11 PM
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I haven't caught up on your story fully but I would vote against jumping in . You cannot bridge that gap before she is ready.


R 25 years
M 14 years
S11 & S13
Working on it alone since Oct 2014
M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years)
Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr.
Next R chat Aug'17
Still together
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If you attempt to bridge the gap, she will most likely distance herself from you because that would be considered pursuing and putting pressure on her. When she's ready, she'll find a way to reconnect and bridge the gap. Please allow her to do this in her own way and on her time clock. Dig deeper for patience and do not forget to breathe!


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2716013 11/14/16 02:40 PM
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hey guys, I really do thank you for the reply.

re jumping in, that has been my thinking up to now but a few things have happened since that makes me wonder if what I'm doing is working or not.

W and I had a convo last weekend which resulted in me choosing to leave - she was being abusive and throwing insults and I realised I was getting sucked in to justify her behaviour. I simply said I was not going to be treated like that.

In this convo W complained at me that I never call her (which she has mentioned before), not even a "good morning". She also complained about me being awkward and difficult, I assume in relation to the lack of control she has when I have the kids. She has said she wonders what I am waiting for (???), and that she doesn't think the sitch has gone on long enough (meaning needing to D).
She has also brought me small gifts (food) and had increased her messaging to ask how we were and what we were doing when I had kids in recent hols.

I KNOW I mustn't exert pressure but I really don't know how to handle this - she seems incapable of figuring this out!!! I WANT to be with her, and sense she is not done with me.

I've gently asked if she wants to do anything (last week - to no success), and will repeat this week. I'll ensure my demeanour is calm etc and won't get worked up if it is not accepted. I really can't see any other option other than nothing - yes I know it is an option but I've been doing it for MONTHS.

I just can't see any change based on my current approach, yet it seems to be annoying W more than anything.
We are still courteous and pleasant to each other during exchanges, and she does seem to be hanging around for a little longer than usual.

I totally feel in a stalemate, where neither of us are equipped with the tools we nee to improve the sitch. I'm trying the hardest I can to just get on, stay positive, GAL etc. I'm also very apprehensive about going back to MC since I feel we will just get the death certificate of our M.

I don't suppose I have much more to say other than I'm keeping a log of interactions with W. Whether this is useful or not I'll see but it is useful to reflect back on.


M 10, T 18
M: 36, W: 35, D: 8, S: 6
EA: Oct 12
ILYBINILWY: Jan 15
BD: Aug 15
Separated: Sep 15
Miss you: Jun 16
Aug 16: Dating (!)
Oct 16: Selfishness returns...
currently: disgusted
srt #2716017 11/14/16 02:52 PM
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She may not be done w/you...but she's very confused right now and even though she's complaining about you not calling her, the best thing you can do is just leave her alone. She has to figure things out on her own and if you are around and she's focusing on you and what you want to do, etc., she can't focus on her own issues and grow up.

Keep your conversations on the kids and the holidays. I wouldn't ask her if she wants to do anything w/you...however, you can rephrase it to ask if she would like to join you and the children in going to the movies, to a museum, hike, etc. Make it more about "family" and not about "you" solely. You may not realize it, but you are putting entirely too much pressure on her to be w/you.

Please step back and allow her to come to you when she's ready. When something isn't working, you need to try something different and always remember...actions speak louder than words.

Keep the focus on you and your family. Leave your wife in God's hands for now.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2716022 11/14/16 03:08 PM
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Hi job, thanks again, this has given me some things to mull over. I'll be sure to post here before I do anything though

regarding "family" time, I'm unsure about this. Where do I draw the line at cake-eating? I know she hates missing out and feels "punished", but equally I wanted her to know exactly what a D would look like (this was before I was sure W was/had been in MLC)

with an MLCer is it ok to do "family" stuff or not? Should I only do if she reciprocates at some point? confused...


M 10, T 18
M: 36, W: 35, D: 8, S: 6
EA: Oct 12
ILYBINILWY: Jan 15
BD: Aug 15
Separated: Sep 15
Miss you: Jun 16
Aug 16: Dating (!)
Oct 16: Selfishness returns...
currently: disgusted
srt #2716026 11/14/16 03:15 PM
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If you are doing family things, I would invite her along once in a while. It would give her a sense of what she's missing when she's not around you and the kids (as a family unit). You could phrase your invite as: "wife, the children are going to see a movie, would you like to join us?" This gives her the option to say yes or no. It's whatever you feel comfortable in doing. I don't see once in a while as cake eating and you would have to keep your expectations at zero.

Check out Kyh's thread. You might get some good info from his threads.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2716113 11/14/16 11:10 PM
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Thanks for stopping by my thread, I'm learning as I go but I hope it can help you.

As always, Job has given you some great advice, especially keeping your expectations at zero. Fake it for now if you have to. From what I've read, if our spouses ever come out of this it will be a slow lifting of the fog, not them waking up to sunshine one morning so no use expecting them to suddenly come around. Also, if and when she declines be sure to go and have a great time with whatever you're doing, it's about the kids/family and her loss!

Kyh #2716233 11/15/16 11:46 AM
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arghhh - just back from an invite which W initiated to an evening meal with W and kids at her condo.

I managed it well, and had a great time, kids loved it too. W I'm not sure, she seems wary of ever being physically close to me? I made sure I didn't do or push anything but strange all the less.

Got 2 quick questions about how folks cope with these kind of events

How do you manage your expectations at these things and afterwards. It's what I've been waiting on happening for over a year now but you always come back on a downer when you have to leave frown

Secondly, I've had a dilemma of how "tough" to be all through my sitch. How can I make sure I'm not being friend-zoned, yet equally not causing undue aggravation? Is it a case of I know my W best? Or be as tough as I can manage. I've been reading threads where people are saying if she is in crisis I need to be there to support her, but she has moved out so it's obviously harder.

Didn't do any R talk or pressure tonight, just thanked her for tea and said it was nice thing to do.


M 10, T 18
M: 36, W: 35, D: 8, S: 6
EA: Oct 12
ILYBINILWY: Jan 15
BD: Aug 15
Separated: Sep 15
Miss you: Jun 16
Aug 16: Dating (!)
Oct 16: Selfishness returns...
currently: disgusted
srt #2716297 11/15/16 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted By: srt


How do you manage your expectations at these things and afterwards. It's what I've been waiting on happening for over a year now but you always come back on a downer when you have to leave frown
.


The advice I got that helped me with this was to just enjoy the time and have no expectations. I haven't mastered this but I'm trying and keep trying.

Kyh #2717494 11/23/16 03:35 PM
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feel like I need to update things again for this week.

No further news really!
W continues to just be businesslike at changeovers, however she is staying a little longer than usual. She has had a worrying health problem this week which has affected her looks and it is showing. We asked her to tea at weekend but she refused on basis of having food needing to be eaten, medical problem and feeling not too great - seems to be struggling with her health (or that's what she tells me!)

I also asked her if she wanted to do something this week - to the reply "I've not really thought about that". Kind of getting the point of DB now, they won't want to until they want to! I'm going to ask a couple more times in the next week or two and if no positive response I'm going to take it as W is unable to do any meaningful work to sort out the R, and just withdraw back to focus on me and the kids.

I know I should be doing this anyway but her recent comments that I never this and never that have pissed me off. Doing it this way I can be confident and clear of conscience that I made it plain clear I was willing to do MY part. Until she is willing to step up I'm getting myself in order to move forward.

I suppose my change in attitude has been brought about by several things.
1. Duration of events currently, and her token efforts at R/"dating"
2. discussions with family/friends about her selfishness/entitlement issues
3. Some information I discovered on another site * more about this below
4. An acknowledgement from myself that the current "me" is not sustainable

So that's it, I suppose I'm finally thinking about dropping the rope, not so much because I want to, but because I realise there is no point hanging onto something that doesn't want to come back. No matter how strong I am it won't affect the outcome. I know I am good, worthy and will be an excellent partner and father. It will be her loss.

* the website I have been on I won't name. All I will say is it places the blame for cheating VERY firmly at he foot of the WW/WAW. Through this site I have been able to start the work required to fix me, but as the saying goes I cannot fix them. They have to WANT to fix themselves and WANT an R for it to be worthwhile. So I will DB like a pro to show I am not shutting her out, but equally I'm not doing anything to pull her back in - she must own her issues and live within the life and restrictions her choices have created for her - no more control of me and cake eating.

I'd be very interested to hear thoughts on all this. The biggest ???? that was on this other site was there is no such thing as MLC (!!!), only a selfish, narcissistic, self-entitled [censored]..............


M 10, T 18
M: 36, W: 35, D: 8, S: 6
EA: Oct 12
ILYBINILWY: Jan 15
BD: Aug 15
Separated: Sep 15
Miss you: Jun 16
Aug 16: Dating (!)
Oct 16: Selfishness returns...
currently: disgusted
srt #2717573 11/24/16 07:33 AM
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srt,

Don't ask her again if she wants to do something w/you. You need to allow her to come to you. Asking her to do things is putting pressure on her and she's not ready to commit herself to doing things w/you. Remember...in her mind, you are the enemy who has made her very unhappy and don't forget...she fired you as her h. Step way, way back and just leave her be. When she's ready, she'll suggest things to do.

I wouldn't have any discussions w/family and friends about your situation or what she's doing or not doing. The more you talk to family and friends about the situation, the more likely some of that chatter will get back to her and it will make it more difficult for her to reconcile (if and when) w/you at some later date. It may be too much for her when she wakes up and she may opt to just move on w/o working on reconciling w/you. If someone inquires about your situation, keep the response short and sweet. You could respond "Things are about the same" and let it go. No one needs to know your business except your wife, lawyer and God.

MLC is not a recognized health issue in the medical society. Depression and grief are. Depression and grief can cause people to do a lot of things that they normally wouldn't do. Midlife comes from the age that we see most of the odd behavior happening. Hormones, health issues, old age, etc. can also create some odd behavior in people because mortality is looking them squarely between the eyes.

Of course, we also have the Quarter Life Crisis, whereby we have some odd behaviors going on w/those at 20, 30 and early 40's.

Each and every person, author, doctor and forum has their own beliefs about MLC and life in general. It's all in what you take from reading the material and how you apply it to your own unique situation. Take what you can use to help you better understand your spouse and what he/she is going through, but also what can help you move forward w/your own life.

Just my two cents.

job #2717591 11/24/16 10:29 AM
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Srt,
My IC doesn't buy MLC as a "thing". But, this doesn't matter to me because in this forum I've seen the same words said to me, the same actions, the same scenarios. So for me the label doesn't matter- could be depression, could be MLC/QLC, both, neither. I do think some people here are dealing with Narcissists-- another tricky term-- and others are just dealing with people in crisis who have become very selfish.
The most important take-away from reading all others stories is even though it was said to be 100% my fault, that can't be true. That's helped me weather the storm.


me 42 H 32
T 7yr
M 6yr
BD 5/2016 ILYBNILWY
Separated 7/2016
Altair #2717595 11/24/16 11:16 AM
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Hi guys, thanks for your kind words, I'll respond later when I've given them some thought.


M 10, T 18
M: 36, W: 35, D: 8, S: 6
EA: Oct 12
ILYBINILWY: Jan 15
BD: Aug 15
Separated: Sep 15
Miss you: Jun 16
Aug 16: Dating (!)
Oct 16: Selfishness returns...
currently: disgusted
srt #2717901 11/27/16 05:57 AM
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I've given some time to thinking over comments from others and again I suppose I'm torn.

Recent interactions w W are going downhill, she is more argumentative, distancing etc etc. I've just stopped the pursuit now and will definitely be on tough love for as far as I can see into the future (forever?).

I suppose these, and some recent reflection has led me to the place I am at the moment. I feel a bit more at peace with myself. I still have regrets about things I should have/have not done, but equally I see that if W wanted to R these are not barriers. Increasingly I feel like a badly treated plan B.

This is starting to creep into how I feel about W, in terms that her treatment of me is unjust and very selfish. Like I have previously said I still want to R, I just cannot see it happening without a major shift in her attitude. W was the one who cheated, W was the one who could not express her dissatisfaction with things, W was the one who decided to separate, W is the one who has complaints about the way things are.

W SHOULD BE PREPARED TO BE THE ONE TO TAKE SOME ACTION. I've tried and been open and everything I can think of to little or no effect. I can feel the appetite I have for this waning and a desire to move on slowly starting to ignite.

Yes I have kids and the effect on them will not be good, but I tell myself this was not my choice, and I don't deserve to exist like this in perpetuity at the decision of someone else.

My hope she would come out of her "fog" is still there but seems just as far away as ever. Increasingly I see her "fog~" as anything but that - just a sense of entitlement to do as she pleases whilst keeping everyone else at her beck and call.

So the way I see it I have 2 choices (or 1 route - step 1 then 2)

1. Continue to DB and totally drop the rope. See if any meaningful change comes forward regarding an R whilst accepting it may now be TOTALLY over. Wonder if W will ever WAKE UP and smell the coffee.

However this sitch is not good for my mental health, and certainly not good for our kids.

or

2. Basically do a reverse bomb-drop and announce I am D'ing her. Book into counselling to do this and basically drop all her [censored] back on her with bells on (by this I mean mega truth dart rocket, and give her ownership of the mess she has landed us in). After that maybe an ultimatum deadline and when that day arrives, proceed and never look back.

The most gutting thing as always is our children and everything we had invested in this. To have it cut and torn away seems very selfish and cruel i.e. she did not go through a respectable path with all this, simply followed her selfish desires.

In other news W health continues to be no better. She still seems pained and in denial of many things. D tells me her relationship with her mother is worse than ever, only her father (who I happen to know has cheated before) seems to be the person who is able to get close to her.

Just before submitting this I know it reads very accusatory. I suppose I'm rejecting the guilt which has tried to have been placed at my feet. Yes I did have my part to play in this story but I know my actions have been honourable. It is what it is, I am willing to do the work to fix it, I wonder if she is?


M 10, T 18
M: 36, W: 35, D: 8, S: 6
EA: Oct 12
ILYBINILWY: Jan 15
BD: Aug 15
Separated: Sep 15
Miss you: Jun 16
Aug 16: Dating (!)
Oct 16: Selfishness returns...
currently: disgusted
srt #2721061 12/14/16 04:39 PM
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Just checking in to say I've totally dropped the rope and now I'm done. It's taken me a long time to come round. D will be started by me in the new year, this is no way to live. Looking forward to the rest of my new life ☺


M 10, T 18
M: 36, W: 35, D: 8, S: 6
EA: Oct 12
ILYBINILWY: Jan 15
BD: Aug 15
Separated: Sep 15
Miss you: Jun 16
Aug 16: Dating (!)
Oct 16: Selfishness returns...
currently: disgusted
srt #2721065 12/14/16 05:21 PM
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srt,

I'm sorry to read that you are thinking of starting the D in the new year. Are you doing this for you or are you doing this in the hopes that by filing she will wake up?

I understand your frustration, but if she is in MLC, it takes a very long time for the depressive fog to lift. I know that you've stated you've dropped the rope and are done...but are you truly done?

Let me ask you this...if your wife had been in an accident and was in a rehab facility in a coma, would you walk away and not look back or would you continue to hope and pray for her, and yet, continue to live your life to the fullest while she's lying there? Would you divorce her because she's lying there in a coma and the doctors can't predict when she'll wake up and at the moment can't be an active participant in the marriage for the time being?

The reason I am asking these questions is that I want you to be absolutely sure that filing for a divorce is what you want and not just a knee jerk reaction to something that has been done, said or because it's the holiday season and you are feeling out of sorts because of your situation. I want you to really think about this and if you are absolutely sure this is what you want to do, then by all means do it.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2721543 12/17/16 03:59 PM
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I see no point tbh.
I'm tired of the rejection.
The current ties are dragging me down and stopping me from living my life.
I want back my freedom and independence.
I've also realised I'm unwilling to keep going along with this.
I don't want her back.
I've grown, I've changed, I like who I've become.
I also have the power that I don't have to keep doing this if I don't want to.
The "prize" has lost it's lustre, and in it's place I've gained a life.
I'm unwilling to compromise my happiness and sacrifice that much to anyone ever again.


M 10, T 18
M: 36, W: 35, D: 8, S: 6
EA: Oct 12
ILYBINILWY: Jan 15
BD: Aug 15
Separated: Sep 15
Miss you: Jun 16
Aug 16: Dating (!)
Oct 16: Selfishness returns...
currently: disgusted
srt #2721606 12/18/16 07:09 AM
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I understand just how you feel. I just wanted to make sure you weren't reacting to something that she said or did in the last few days.

When you file, please do not think that you can't return here to post. You will need our support during the process and we will be here to listen and offer advice along that path. We will support you in whatever you decide to do.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2721627 12/18/16 11:26 AM
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very sad at the moment, sad at the way it is, at the lack of effort.

trying to block it all out and just keep moving forward, except the current ties feel like they are holding me back.

I want my new life, a new relationship etc etc. I know I am not ready yet but also believe one day it will just happen, not wanting to be burdened when that day comes.


M 10, T 18
M: 36, W: 35, D: 8, S: 6
EA: Oct 12
ILYBINILWY: Jan 15
BD: Aug 15
Separated: Sep 15
Miss you: Jun 16
Aug 16: Dating (!)
Oct 16: Selfishness returns...
currently: disgusted
srt #2721629 12/18/16 11:31 AM
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SRT I know what you mean --- that feeling of such intense sadness and pain and not wanting to be where you are at the moment, wanting to be able to somehow leapfrog over it into the next phase.

Sadly, the shortest way to get to the next phase is to power through this one, and trust that you will be ok.

You're not alone. {{{hugs}}}
xoxoxo


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
It took me years to understand,
That this too, was a gift."
~ Mary Oliver
bttrfly #2721648 12/18/16 05:14 PM
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SRT - One thought exercise that I have used when going through tough times like the one that you appear to be going through right now is - as people have helpfully advised me - imagine what would be different filing vs not filing. For me at least there is little difference. I would still be alone, I would actually be out cash for at least lawyers fees, and W would still be lost in the wilderness.

Just a thought - is there indeed any rush? I completely understand the need to have some sort of closure but here where I live the D can't proceed until a year of separation is over so if I were to file now vs 4 months from now, it would still be April before it actually happens.

I hope you have found some Joy in your day my friend - look outside yourself and the drama - it's a great big wonderful world out there.

Best wishes no matter how your world turns.


On BD
H52, W50
T27, M26
S21, D23
BD-9-Mar-16
D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18
I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good.
But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
AndrewP #2721696 12/19/16 05:26 AM
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Srt

When I read your posts here, I see a man who loves his W and family. It's a very frustrating thing this MLC. You can't fix it and that makes it even more Frustrating.

I am divorced now. Am I giving up on the women I loved and still love. Nope.
I just stepped away, focused on my kids and myself. She will have to do her own heavy lifting to ge out of her own mess. Would I accept her back if she comes out the other end and puts in 110% . yes, because she is worth it.

If she doesn't, I am at a better place and I know I'll have another relationship.

I've cycled up and down and have been pulled into my XW drama. What you are going through currently is spinning and cycling.

Stick around and say how you are feeling now because tomorrow those feelings just might change again.

We are a here for you

Irish


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
Irish M #2721842 12/19/16 02:24 PM
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hey guys thanks for the support. I need to give this some thought again.

my main bugbear is the complete lack of financial security i have because our assets have not been divided up. I also want to be able to get on with my life and not let these years pass me by. I am a realist in that I do not expect W to return, she has done too much damage and has shown no sign of remorse. atm I do nto think I'd be able to forgive her for what she has done. It makes me feel sick the way she has broken our family, I really do not want to have to spend any more time with her ever again. I've realised what a bind she and her family have been on me and the negative way it resulted in us living our lives. I feel in some ways like I may be going through an mlc of my own now as I feel what is done is done and it is up to me now to get on.
I'm not rushing into anything yet, just sad that the light seems to have gone out in me for wanting to fix this. Struggling to give a [censored] during interactions with her now too. All her possessions are boxed up so I can start with a clean slate again.


M 10, T 18
M: 36, W: 35, D: 8, S: 6
EA: Oct 12
ILYBINILWY: Jan 15
BD: Aug 15
Separated: Sep 15
Miss you: Jun 16
Aug 16: Dating (!)
Oct 16: Selfishness returns...
currently: disgusted
srt #2728571 02/05/17 12:00 PM
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thought I'd update this for anyone who is still reading, mainly because I'm struggling a bit again and find sometimes getting it down on paper (or UBB) can be theraputic.

Firstly no change in sitch, W does not really interact any more, must say I don't really want to, feel physically sick most of the time she is around.
I now also know just how much she has lied about all sorts of things, this is really hurting me, as now I know I was not crazy, and she really did try and dump a whole load of blame on me at counselling which I now know was pure shame and guilt.
100% sure she met with EA OM, possibly physical too, this makes me feel sick, especially with REPEATED denials.

To move my sitch on I am pursuing legal steps to secure financials. Mentally I thought I had moved on but keep thinking of my kids and they do not deserve this. I want my family to be complete, but don't want my W the way she is.

Keep thinking I'm ready for dating but know deep down I'm not. Not sure how or when this will change, but I know I need legals sorted first before I even go there.

Just can't make any sense of everything, and it seems to keep on hurting.

My GAL activities are v well established, and circle of friends is wider and stronger. Just didn't realise or appreciate how deep an effect all of this would have on me, and the utter callous and selfish way W could behave.
Trying to keep being an example for D&S in how to conduct themselves and show them lots of love.


M 10, T 18
M: 36, W: 35, D: 8, S: 6
EA: Oct 12
ILYBINILWY: Jan 15
BD: Aug 15
Separated: Sep 15
Miss you: Jun 16
Aug 16: Dating (!)
Oct 16: Selfishness returns...
currently: disgusted
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