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Previous threads: 1, 2, 3, and 4.

Recap: it's mostly in my sig. My W is a fairly high-functioning sufferer of borderline personality disorder (BPD) and a few other co-occurring mental issues. Recently things came to a head where I found myself losing self-respect, and I realized it was time to change course, or at least accept my fate. Everything happening now -- the wheels were set in motion a long time ago, and to struggle against it directly is folly. When surfing, if you are caught in a fast rip-current, you don't paddle straight against it. You paddle diagonally out of the current.

I busted nothing, and I will bust nothing. But I am going to survive and be a better person for it.

I thank countless people who have given me support in my threads: CT1118, JRuss, albac, Coly23, AndrewP, Surfer, lt0402, mulesqb, Cherry, PsySara, Hawker, SmithyC, sandi2, and countless others.

But I'm still immensely sad for my kids, and, actually, even for my W who is suffering through all this as well.


Me: 50, MLC/WW 45
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Apr 2016: BD2
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Feb 2017: D final
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For all of us men (or women) who are still waiting for the woman they thought they married:

Amos Lee - Arms Of A Woman


Me: 50, MLC/WW 45
Young kids
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Good song FG!! ugh..I wish they would take us back home..


W:42 M:48
T:9 yrs M:1yr
BD: Feb 2016
EA Confirmed: Feb 2016/PA July 2016
D: Feb 2017

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Quote:
I will bust nothing.


You already have.

Strength and Honor.

Mules


M 43
W 44
M 17
T 22
S16,12,9
Bomb 2/05/08
I served her 1/06/09
S'd 3/15/09
D'd 12/21/09



"Tough times don't last, tough people do." --My Dad to me years ago, me to my boys now.
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Originally Posted By: mulesqb


You already have.

Strength and Honor.

Mules


Can I get an Amen!


"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies.
BD: Feb '16
D: Mar '17
Piecing: Putting the self back together was my piecing.
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Originally Posted By: hawker
ugh..I wish they would take us back home..


I don't want my current W back -- it's as if an alien has taken her over.

I don't want my old W back -- that marriage is over.

I do want a great woman back -- I think that is possible if she woke from from her fog and sought counseling and treatment.

"I am at ease in the arms of a woman
Although now
most of my days i spend alone.
A thousand miles,
from the place i was born."


Me: 50, MLC/WW 45
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It's common for LBS's to say, after some DB-ing, "I don't want my old spouse back." But if I recall one of MWD's books, the premise of DB-ing is that unless there is violence and/or substance abuse, just about any marriage can be and should be saved. That seems to imply that the old marriage is OK.

That reminds of various NY Times articles about why some marriages work: they work because people make it work. I remember an advice from a mother quoted there, "The key to not getting divorced is to stay married."

In contrast, popular psychologist/expert-on-infidelity Esther Perel does say in her new TED talk that when there has been infidelity, the old marriage is dead, and the question is whether the spouses want to build a new marriage.

I guess the difference in the two outlooks is related to just how much damage has been done to the existing marriage. When there has been infidelity and waywardness, it's too late to keep the old marriage. You can only build anew.

Some people say divorce is just paperwork but often it isn't. The process of divorce itself -- the negotiating and arguing over child custody and property -- can damage the relationship further.


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I began discussing custody, alimony and property with my W tonight via email. I think we are likely on the same page about custody. Property too, because neither of us is particularly materialistic. I don't know about alimony, yet.

I want it to feel OK about doing this. It doesn't feel catastrophic. So that's good. Or not. I don't know. Previously, I felt horrible about it because my feelings always focused on what it meant for the kids. Now, I don't feel my emotional focus going there, which I feel guilty about. If I focus on my kids, I will become distraught. But it feels like my brain, my body, is able to be more selfish, to be focused more on me, how I need to feel. How dealing with my BPD/MLC/WW has just worn me into the ground. I feel numb.

In a way, I feel like I have failed my kids. But I also feel like I have given all that I can, all that I am able to give.


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Gump, you haven't failed your kids. You have tried really hard to avoid D so why is that failure?

I also keep beating myself up about failing my D. Putting her in a position whereby I put our lives and trust in the hands of a weak, selfish man. But you know when we get married we dont know that these things are going to happen so maybe failure is only possible when you attempt something you know will never work? But still that's not a bad thing otherwise we won't ever do anything because we are afraid of failing...

I'm not very eloquent with my words or very academic so all the above may not make any sense so I apologise if I have confused you!!!


Me - 47
H - 45
D-16
M - 6 years
Separated - May 16

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I appreciate your being there, Coly. Your voice helps.

It sounded to me like your WH was quite a good father to you D, so you had no idea he'd be so unreliable now.

We should both try to beat ourselves up less, I suppose.

It's not logical though -- it just feels that way.

I have been trying to tell myself that after the D, I can make a happy, healthy, joyful home with my W, a home that the kids will be glad to come home to. I think I believe it, even if it doesn't quite cheer me up as much as I hope it would.

Greetings from 8 time zones away...


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Gump,

Sorry I haven't been around much. In my current state just being on here and seeing all the people that are just beginning the journey and all of us still living the pain everyday I just can't look all the time. I feel pain in every new sitch I read.

As for you my friend, we have had a similar journey and are at a similar point in our journey.

We have come so far and been beat down as far as we can be beat down. But that's just it there is a limit. I know I couldn't go any further down so now each day I am slowly rising up and feeling some purpose again.

You WILL be ok. Days WILL get better. It's like everyone tells you when you first get here. Detach! Well only now do I truly know what it means and what it feels like. It's knowing you have done everything you thought was right. It's being pushed as far as you can be pushed. And now as sad as it is I know my W is gone. Maybe for good maybe not but the point is I have let go and am not hanging in her every word or text or sitting around hoping she will walk back in the door.

Seriously this is the hardest thing for most people on here to comprehend but until you can let get and block them out you are living in a prison and it's so toxic. Life is short take the hits and fight back. You are strong Gump I know you will continue being a great dad and have a bright future that will bring happiness again.


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ILYBNILWY and moved out - FEB16
W seeing someone else - JUL16
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A small typo in my post above, maybe a Freudian slip?

Originally Posted By: ForGump
I have been trying to tell myself that after the D, I can make a happy, healthy, joyful home with my W


I meant to write, "I can make a happy, healthy, joyful home WITHOUT my W.

albac -- thanks for your camaraderie on this journey. It's hard to feel the movement in the beginning. Just the pain. But eventually, as you hold your ground, or even improve yourself, you start to see things for what they are. And your W's behavior and her choices for what they are. I am enormously sad for my marriage and my W and for my kids, but this forum has helped me stay more grounded than I would have alone.


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I read that slip and was wondering what in the world you meant - thanks for clearing it up. How you doing today FG?


"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies.
BD: Feb '16
D: Mar '17
Piecing: Putting the self back together was my piecing.
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Thanks for asking CT.

To be honest with myself, every day is difficult. And will remain difficult while we are in in-house separation. Until D takes place.

But I have arrived at a place -- sadly -- where I think overall a D will be better than what we're going through. What I am going through. So, although I'm not exactly pushing the D forward, I am looking forward to being relieved to have this M behind me.


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FG - So sorry you are in this situation, it definitely is a process - curious how the DIY works out for you, most of the advice on here is to seek legal council but outside this forum many have suggested saving the $ as lawyers only make it that much more stressful and can really spoil what if any civility you have between you. If it can be done mutually and respectfully all the power to you! If it comes to that between my W and I I'm hoping we can settle civilly. I've seen it first hand with friends who barely talk now with each other.

Albac- I like you have found that coming back here, while supportive, can also stir up more negative emotions in reading through all the pain others are going through. But if we can help in anyway...


Me: 40 W: 45
T: 13, M: 11
1 D: 9

Suspect A 6/15
ILBINILWY 8/15, and 3/16
EA/PA Discovered 3/16
EA admitted 3/16
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FG, win-win in a negotiation does not always mean even distribution. Think about this statement when the time comes. Maybe even research "integrative negotiation". It may help you, it should help you. Anyway, I know the time may not be now and I wish I had time to explain more, but check it out.


"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies.
BD: Feb '16
D: Mar '17
Piecing: Putting the self back together was my piecing.
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Journaling:

Divorce negotiation has stalled. I've been trying to put the ball in W's court, so she drives the process.

But W's also been more angry. Full of rage at moments. In those moments I resolve to push the D forward. Not out of hatred or resentment -- but believing that a physical separation might defuse her simmering anger, as well as provide a haven for the kids. Her anger is pushing me in that direction, but it's not a clear cut choice, yet.

That visceral, physical, sexual tie I felt with my W ... it is being weathered away by months of her coldness and anger. In a way, she's making it easier for me to divorce her. I'm sure it's her subconscious way of making the world consistent for herself -- it's easier to make me the bad guy and want to leave, rather than to admit I'm a decent guy and still want to leave me.

She's blowing in the wind -- a hurricane -- and I'm trying to stay steady without being fake.


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Hey Gump, I'm sorry that you and your W are getting further away from each other. This in-house separation really suc£s.

Why have D negotiations stalled, is it because she isn't actively doing anything to move it along?

Just keep doing what you are doing and let her get in with what she has to do. Your doing great in the circumstances...


Me - 47
H - 45
D-16
M - 6 years
Separated - May 16

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Quote:
Divorce negotiation has stalled. I've been trying to put the ball in W's court, so she drives the process.

Exactly where it belongs.

Quote:
But W's also been more angry. Full of rage at moments. In those moments I resolve to push the D forward. Not out of hatred or resentment -- but believing that a physical separation might defuse her simmering anger, as well as provide a haven for the kids. Her anger is pushing me in that direction, but it's not a clear cut choice, yet.

Back in my day some vets were telling me her showing anger is all good. Not sure I get that after all this time. I always viewed as her frustration of not being able to control me. I guess when you step back it could appear to be her outwardly showing some of her inner struggle. I always did feel the proper response was - sorry you feel that way, I imagine it's hard on you - and then walk away. I actually got enjoyment out that in a way.

Quote:
That visceral, physical, sexual tie I felt with my W ... it is being weathered away by months of her coldness and anger. In a way, she's making it easier for me to divorce her. I'm sure it's her subconscious way of making the world consistent for herself -- it's easier to make me the bad guy and want to leave, rather than to admit I'm a decent guy and still want to leave me.


Yeah this is where the LBS is in a bind. I think I mentioned that when I finally served my XW she tried to make me the bad guy big time. But nobody fell for that. One of my mentors - Puppy Dog Trails - called it the "Fall o the Princess." Your W may feel the pressure starting to build especially since you have passed the burden of filing to her. She doesn't want that guilt. But I totally hear you on physical desires being withered away. To me that will be very difficult to get back. For me it was easy. Confirmed PA means end of M. But even before then the damage was done I was starting to see no path where I go back there.

Quote:
She's blowing in the wind -- a hurricane -- and I'm trying to stay steady without being fake.

Strength and Honor. Always wins. You can handle this.

Mules


M 43
W 44
M 17
T 22
S16,12,9
Bomb 2/05/08
I served her 1/06/09
S'd 3/15/09
D'd 12/21/09



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Here, for DIY divorce ... we have to complete forms on child custody (a detailed schedule of who has the child when), alimony (how much for how long), and division of property. I believe my W and I agree on general principles, and we've both agreed to go forward with the D.

But one of us has to do something to actually proceed with filing the D. As I see it, the next step has to be one of us putting forward some details, so that we can negotiate and complete the required forms. I'm letting her take that next step. She hasn't brought up the issue... at least for a few days. Who knows, she could send me a draft any day. Today even. To be honest, I dread getting emails from her.


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Originally Posted By: mulesqb
She doesn't want that guilt.


Yes, she always tries to frame it as both of us being culpable. When she says that I've tried to say -- or maybe I just thought of it in my head -- that yes, of course we are both responsible for how the marriage worked, but I wanted to work on it, rather than get a divorce, so the divorce itself is on you, as are any affairs.

I will likely do some type of last resort letter, not so much in the hopes that she'll spin around and change her mind, but to put it down clearly on paper that this is something she chose, not me, and that from the beginning I respected, value and wanted to save our marriage.


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Originally Posted By: mulesqb
She doesn't want that guilt.


Yes, she always tries to frame it as both of us being culpable. When she says that, I've tried ... to say -- or maybe I just thought of it in my head -- that yes, of course we are both responsible for how the marriage worked, but I always wanted to work on it, rather than get a divorce, so the divorce itself is on you, as are any affairs.

I will likely do some type of last resort letter, not so much in the hopes that she'll spin around and change her mind, but to put it down clearly on paper that this is something she chose, not me, and that from the beginning I respected, valued and wanted to save our marriage.


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Journaling:

Cut out from work at 4, ran over to gym (it's very close) and had a short/light workout. Felt great.

Picked up my son from a playdate at 5:15. W texts that she needs to decompress from the stress of work (SAHM, trying to jump start her career alongside the D).

I got home and got right to cooking dinner. Kids liked it. Then I cleaned the dinner table and the kitchen, including two days worth of dirty dishes that had piled up.

W on FB the whole time.

Got my son ready for bed, but W criticized me for not having him cleaning up his coloring pencils: "I don't want to be the only one telling him to clean up." In my mind I could hear myself responding, "There are so many things where I'm the only one doing it," but I didn't say it, I just worked with my son to clean up his stuff.

W thanked me for cleaning all the dishes.

Now the house is dark and it's quiet. I feel satisfied with today. The word "happy" comes to mind. I know I'm not quite there yet, but that's ok. I think I can get there.


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^^^^ Like

You'll get there my friend. It sounds like the healing has started.


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D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18
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Can I marry you?! JK but I would give an arm if WH did all of that! Some of our biggest arguments before his affair was he rarely helped out around the house, and that was usually after I nagged him. I am at the point where I have resigned myself to doing all the housework.


M 10yrs T 13yrs
BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW
BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off
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April '17-Letting go
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Originally Posted By: ForGump

Got my son ready for bed, but W criticized me for not having him cleaning up his coloring pencils: "I don't want to be the only one telling him to clean up." In my mind I could hear myself responding, "There are so many things where I'm the only one doing it," but I didn't say it, I just worked with my son to clean up his stuff.


Yep, sometimes you just have to pick your battles. I feel your pain here FG bc I always want to defend myself when W does this. Best to stick to what your boundaries are and fight to protect those. Good work!

Originally Posted By: ForGump
W thanked me for cleaning all the dishes.


To me that shows your W has respect for you and what you do around the house. Maybe I'm misreading the situation but that seems like a good thing. My W hasn't thanked me for anything in months, just constant criticism. completely disrespectful all the time. If there's any positive here it's that she still has some respect for you.

Originally Posted By: ForGump

That visceral, physical, sexual tie I felt with my W ... it is being weathered away by months of her coldness and anger. In a way, she's making it easier for me to divorce her. I'm sure it's her subconscious way of making the world consistent for herself -- it's easier to make me the bad guy and want to leave, rather than to admit I'm a decent guy and still want to leave me.


I'm going through this right now too FG. The coldness and meanness make them horribly unattractive. I find myself wondering now, if I didn't have a child with this person, would I have already filed. My IC says the coldness and anger show their ambivalence. It's a defense mechanism to force themselves headfirst down the path they are moving along. Hell, my W went so far as to get a tattoo on her wrist that says "Let Go". If they are so hell bent on leaving us behind why even bother expending the energy to beat us up at every turn. They always seem to be trying to reinforce their image of us as the bad guy so they aren't forced to look inwards at their real problems.

You are doing the right thing by not stalling but making her drive this thing. Keep being strong and you will be good. we are both headed down the path of getting out of this in house S stuff. It will be interesting to see how things shake out of we ever escape it. I'm guessing things will be different with the 24/7 stress of W being removed, but who knows.


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Originally Posted By: PsySara
Can I marry you?! ... I am at the point where I have resigned myself to doing all the housework.


Why? So that a few years down the road you can feel mothered and suffocated by me? Non merci!

PsySara, I hope you somehow find yourself married to a true partner in the near future. You deserve nothing less. Every mother deserves nothing less. Every woman. Every person.

BTW, look at Ruth Bader Ginsberg's op-ed piece in the NY Times today. She has some good stuff in there about marriage and the support she got from her partner, who actually ran their kitchen. That made me feel good, because I can really hold my own in the kitchen.


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LT-- I appreciate your thoughts.

At this point, I'm kind of done being strategic. Done with 180's. Done with picking the right battles -- I don't want any battle, period, because it's all pointless. Done with "doing what works." I am just working on being authentic, being me, being good, holding onto my values, and loving my kids. I try to be kind to my W but no more than is welcome (and not much is welcome), and, again, not because I'm trying to bust anything, but because I believe that's how I want to treat another human being.

The woman I loved isn't there no more. I don't know what happened to her, but she is gone. I think some combination of personality disorder and midlife crisis took her away, and quite possibly the person I thought I loved wasn't quite there in the first place. She may have made a mistake choosing me. She may have forced herself to fit a role she never felt comfortable about. Doesn't matter -- I don't have to have the answers.

She probably has some respect for me, somewhere. But much of her actions are driven by guilt. So her thank you was probably given so she can feel better about herself. And I think what your IC says is absolutely right. I know she knows and remembers very well who I was in her life, and how much I adored her. Which is exactly why she has to make such an effort to be annoyed and angry at me.

But you know what. That's OK. I forgive her. I have no anger for her, just sadness. Reminds me of "I forgive it all," by Mudcrutch. Which is actually one of her favorites.

I send you my best wishes, LT -- a fellow traveller.


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FG - that was a good song suggestion. I'd never heard it.

I understand how you feel, I know things can feel like you are scamming your W into coming back, scamming yourself into being who you are not. I would suggest you take a second look. The 180, doing what works, the strategy - you should know by know that is all to be a BETTER you, not a different you. It is not about your W. If I am mistaken, I do apologize, but I am telling you this because I care about you as my friend. Your posts, they don't read like you are doing something that works for you. Your reply to Sara, even if meant in humor, seemed so self deprecating. I do not have the answer, you do. I am only asking that you keep searching for it inside yourself. I hope you had a good day today buddy.


Please take 10 minutes to read this:

http://bulletin.kenyon.edu/x4280.html

You can also search for it on youtube - this is water.


"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies.
BD: Feb '16
D: Mar '17
Piecing: Putting the self back together was my piecing.
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CT --

I feel pretty good about myself. I feel pretty good about moving on -- at least for myself. I am, as I keep lamenting here, very sad for my kids. Being here in this forum has helped me through some rough times, and has helped me find some direction in these hard times. Having a decent IC helped a lot. And time heals. Something happens, as you see your W behave the way she does, day after day, week after week, month after month. Over time, I have come to see and feel, that the D isn't about me. It's about her. Sure, yes, it's also an opportunity for me to own up to my failures in the marriage, as every partner has failures in a marriage, and it's an opportunity for me to make myself better. I believe I'm doing that.

I'm not done hurting, but I'm able to see that there is goodness beyond the hurt, after the hurt.

Thanks for your friendship.


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p.s. PsySara -- yes, I'll marry you!


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Originally Posted By: ForGump
CT --

I feel pretty good about myself. I feel pretty good about moving on -- at least for myself. I am, as I keep lamenting here, very sad for my kids. Being here in this forum has helped me through some rough times, and has helped me find some direction in these hard times. Having a decent IC helped a lot. And time heals. Something happens, as you see your W behave the way she does, day after day, week after week, month after month. Over time, I have come to see and feel, that the D isn't about me. It's about her. Sure, yes, it's also an opportunity for me to own up to my failures in the marriage, as every partner has failures in a marriage, and it's an opportunity for me to make myself better. I believe I'm doing that.

I'm not done hurting, but I'm able to see that there is goodness beyond the hurt, after the hurt.

Thanks for your friendship.


That is the type of answer I was hoping for buddy. I do not always read what you write to understand things like you outlined above. Good job. And, not sure many of us here are done hurting.

Did you read that small article?


"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies.
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CT-- yes, I did read the article, and it's a good reminder to keep becoming aware of the water we're in.

I think for most of us here ... DB and D itself really depends on the spouse, and their journey. While we can do a lot to maximize the odds that the spouse will see the lighthouse, it is really their ship that will either hold water or not.

Some spouses have very deep seated issues to work through: whether it's midlife crisis, personality disorders (e.g., BPD, narcissism), mental illness (e.g., depression, anxiety, bipolar), developmental issues (I'm thinking of all the WS's out there acting like teenagers), confusion about sexual orientation, or just plain selfishness. In those cases, the DB-ing partner can DB til the cows come home -- whether using the warmer, gentler approach encouraged by MWD's staff, or the more command/respect/boundaries-based approach encouraged by Sandi -- and the outcome is still 99% dependent on the journey taken by the spouse.

As the initial pain of the D softens, I think many of us see the landscape as it truly is. It helps us let go of that which we cannot control. It helps us see where we need to go. It helps us see the hills ahead, and the valleys thereafter.


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Originally Posted By: ForGump

I think for most of us here ... DB and D itself really depends on the spouse, and their journey. While we can do a lot to maximize the odds that the spouse will see the lighthouse, it is really their ship that will either hold water or not.

Some spouses have very deep seated issues to work through: whether it's midlife crisis, personality disorders (e.g., BPD, narcissism), mental illness (e.g., depression, anxiety, bipolar), developmental issues (I'm thinking of all the WS's out there acting like teenagers), confusion about sexual orientation, or just plain selfishness. In those cases, the DB-ing partner can DB til the cows come home -- whether using the warmer, gentler approach encouraged by MWD's staff, or the more command/respect/boundaries-based approach encouraged by Sandi -- and the outcome is still 99% dependent on the journey taken by the spouse.


FG this is so true... our S are really on their own journey and we have very little influence in the outcome other than being the best us we can be.

I think the harder approach that Sandi advocates could potentially accelerate their decision but at the same time has the propensity to backfire whereas the more gentler approach gives them more latitude and freedom to find themselves but at the same time risks our own ability to stand up for ourselves and draw healthy boundaries that are important through separation and if one is to reconcile.


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A strange silence. Calm before the storm? Maybe.

A gift of time. But it doesn't quite feel like a gift.

I'm not as strong as my statements.

I think the truth is always quiet, it doesn't have to speak.


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I found the hard approach backfired horribly in my case. When I used the softer, more kind approach I got the results I wanted. Of course I ended up falling back on the hard approach recently and my WH went from considering staying vs. leaving to straight up wanting to file for divorce on his own.


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Sara-- I never quite figured out which is better, the warm approach vs. no-more-cake-eating approach. They say do what works, but sometimes you can't tell what works, and what might seem like working for a few days doesn't mean it's working in the long run. So we all wrestle with just-not-knowing.

Journaling: a strange calm has settled into my relationship -- no, I'm not going to call it that -- into my routine w/ my W. An ever so slight increase in warmth. Likely nothing. I'm still tired of DB-ing. I'm just trying to accept the D, and just enjoy my time w/ my kids every single day, before it gets chopped in half by the D.


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FG, as you know I'm in a similar sort of odd calm as well. It's almost like W and I have accepted the inevitable and we're just going through the motions now. My brain tells me I should be sad about that, but inside I just kind of feel empty right now.

I find myself wondering if we're just going through exhaustion at this point. Wondering if, bc of the months of stress, this has just become our norm and our body and minds have completely adjusted to it. Not to dissimilar to how I'd envision a prisoner gets used to the routine of being in jail (aka in house separation).

End of the day though, it's about consistency. Do what you know to be the right thing to do, regardless of how it affects the W. Part of getting ourselves back.

Keep spending that time w/ the kids and keep strong for their sake brother. You're doing a great job of that!


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I'm certainly exhausted. There is some part of my brain that just says, enough. I still feel so much hurt, desire and hope in my guts ... yet when those feelings well up, my brain just seems to push it away, saying enough, just put one foot in front of the other.

So yeah, all those feelings are still there, and I imagine it will take years to fade. You bury a corpse six feet under, and it rots over decades.


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This is where getting a life is so important. I was watching the videos and MWD said the GAL is so you can recharge your batteries during this marathon. Put yourself out there, get in contact with some friends from your high school/college days. What did you do for hobbies before marrying? Do you participate in a sport? Golf, foot ball, soccer or some other testosterone thing?

Brother, it's not over until YOU say it is. You're fatigued and that's ok. You can fight another day. In the meantime surround yourself with love and joy. Even if the D goes through it's not over until you say it is.


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Hey Gump, maybe this calm is good for you both. I can imagine in-house separation can be exhausting especially when you are watching each word or action. I say bask in this calmness even if there is a storm brewing. At least it will give you a chance to recharge your batteries to face whatever is to come....


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Thanks Sara/Coly-- your advice definitely resonates w/ me. I'm not sure whether I can hang in there. There is so much cheerleading in this forum to just keep running this marathon despite all the pain ... I'm not so sure I have what it takes. Everything advised here is so left-brain, so rational ... I have enough left-brain strength to do my work, which is all left-brain but ... there is just this animal right brain part of me that finds it excruciating to be so near my W yet keep my cool, to not desire, to not hurt. At times I just feel like I'm a shallow, hungry dog. Given all that she has done to the R and to me ... why do I find it so hard to sever my desire for her? What does she have to do, to make me simply be repulsed?

Even if I could get to a stage where I'm repulsed by who she is ... there is yet another huge mountain to climb over: to accept seeing my kids only 3.5 days out of the week.


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p.s. I think I have an OK amount of GAL going on... I do stuff outdoors, I have friends I meet up with, I play music, read for pleasure, I have home improvement projects ... but ... some weeks I slacken because I'm worn out from the work week. But your advice is a good reminder for me to pick up my pace, to recharge my batteries.


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Hi Gump,

Just thought I would check in and see how you are going. It seems you are still going through the motions and feeling down and out. Stay strong and it will get better. You know what Gump I am actually sick of saying the same things to people on this forum the same as they have all done for me in the past.

Let's face it the words of encouragement and people telling us that time makes things better brings very little comfort or relief when we are still in the midst of feeling down and out and that all is lost.

I wanted to share with you where I am at now, as we both began this journey around he same time and we're going through the same struggles with one major difference you were still living with your W.

It has now been almost 9 months since my W left and she has been in a "relationship" with OM for about 4 months now. Wow how time flies. Anyway over the last 9 months I have been brought to my knees more times then I count and truly has been the worst year of my life to date but there is an upside.

In the last 2 months since I finally dropped the rope and conceded she was gone and there was not a damn thing I could do about it I now feel so much better!
I sleep full nights now and rarely think about what my W is doing and truly do not want anything to do with her in her current state. Don't get me wrong I still very much love her and would love for her to realize what she has done and become a better person but I am at a point now in my life where I realize this change will take a long long time and may never come.

I am now ok with the fact she is off on her own journey finding what she wants in life and if that's not me then I am happy for her to find what works. I do not NEED or WANT someone that does not care about me. It me 9 months to corn to the point where I truly believe this and that deep gutted fear and want that I had for my marriage and my W is gone and I can see everything so much clearer.

The reason I am sharing this with you Gump is it is like a cliff. The changes weren't gradule over 9 months, it just got to a point where I was beat down so bad, then it all started to make more sense and I began to focus on me and my own life and how I don't want to waste another second of feeling sorry for myself.

I guess my point of all this. Time DOES heal. Things DO get better, if someone is stupid enough to to not want you, be smart enough to let them go. Because there will be someone out here who does want you for who you are and that is what I focus on and I feel the best I have in a long time. Again this doesn't mean I have given up on my W and that I don't love her, it just means I'm letting her find herself.

Stay strong buddy.


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Yep, feel the same. It doesn't matter how much support I get or how much support I offer others in the hope that I will convince myself everything will be ok, I still have this incredible pain in my heart and I miss my H so much.

It's been just five months since he moved out and I still cry everyday. Right now I would do anything to call him and sob down the phone about how much I miss him but I know it wont change anything. This really suc£s!


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A development.

But first -- Coly -- I admit, yet again, that I feel the same way. I have made some progress detaching, and convincing myself that I need to move on and find happiness apart from my W. Yet there is just some part of my heart muscle that just won't stop feeling the way it always did. It's especially hard because I see her every morning and evening.

This last week, there's been a noticeable warming in her demeanor towards me. Not perfectly consistent -- there are still shards of annoyance, and moments of averted eye contact, and she still definitely maintains a distance, but there have been more conversations, chit chat, and the distance has closed in a bit: now she can stand to sit 2-3 feet away from me whereas before, she couldn't really sit within 10 feet, except at family dinner, when she made sure she was not seated next to me.

It may be related to finding out last week that her Dad likely has cancer. It may be related to her realizing that trying to jump start a (paying) career is going to be very difficult. It may be related to her somehow getting over the initial anger towards me, and settling into a more calm, more rational determination to get a divorce. I just sense some soberness from her, along with the warmer demeanor.

Then earlier today, amid an exchange of messages about what our kids may or may not know, she says she'd like to talk later this week about "an idea" she has.

I'm guessing the idea has to do with financial, housing, and/or child custody dimensions of our divorce. I'm sure she still believes that getting out of this attraction-less marriage is the key to her happiness.


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Gump

Going through similar. WW seeming happpier then changes. Stop trying to read her. Just imagine it's something else cashing her mood swings. You don't need to know what - perhaps she saw a dead cat and it made her sad/cross. Perhaps it made her happpy. Stop trying to read her. If you try to read her you will follow her emotionally. Let all that go. Still means you care - but like a sister or a moody flat mate pay not mind, just think - ah there she is, looking moody/happy etc. Must have seen that dead cat again.

The idea will be something that fits her that she needs time to dress up as good for you. Pay no mind. She might even not have anything to say. For now. Pay no mind. It's certainly not very important or concrete as she would have raised it. She's prObably just going to tell you about that fecking cat!

It won't be better out of the M. It might be short term - there is short term relief from the 'pressure' for her. But long term she is still there (with 'her' problems) with an OM that is a cheat too.....just work on being super dad and forget about her as much a Humanly possible.

Take care. Keep going.

Surfer.


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When she was warming towards you was there anything you were doing consistently? Part of DBing is keeping a progress journal, if something is tried and there are results (good or bad) then keep track in a journal.

GAL is more about self care, if you're too tired to do any strenuous activities then pick an easy one, like reading. This is definitely a marathon, my WH has definitely tested my patience. The good news is I have learned to control my temper while DBing. This has been a useful skill to apply across the board, both with my children, family and friends. I have learned that just because I feel a certain way at the moment doesn't mean I have to react to it, it doesn't mean I have to make a decision at that very moment. Most importantly I have learned to keep my words soft because I may end up having to eat them. I have learned to put my ego and pride on the back burner and ask myself what my end goal looks like.

My goal is to have a loving, nurturing, respectful marriage. What does this look like to me? It means disagreement without arguing or insulting each other, without screaming. It means letting go of who did the dishes last or the most. It means prioritizing my family over my list of to-do stuff. It is a huge amount of self work. I have spent the last few days apologizing to my WH for my hardness and obstinacy. Instead of him smugly smiling and accepting my apologies it has resulted in him becoming remorseful and telling me how much he regrets the pain he has caused me with his affair. It was not what I expected. And keep in mind my marriage may still be over, but at least we can talk and interact like friends again.

A big part of the problem was I had a mental picture of what he was SUPPOSED to do to make it up to me. But I never pictured the behavior I needed to show to make my WH feel safe and loved so he could finally face the demon of his actions. How can he give me 100% transparency if I am ready to jump on every slip? Anyways...I sort of thread jacked, huh? Keep on keepin' on, if you feel like quitting and divorcing, then wait a few weeks and revisit the thought. In the meantime care gently for yourself, you're a great guy.


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PsySara

This all sounds really positive. The 180 - not jumping on everything. Apologising rather than waiting for a vision he can't see so can't deliver.

I am going to think about some emulation of this.

I want to hear more of your approach working.

Keep it up.

Surfer.


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Sara

I really wonder if I could have hung on for as long as you have, if I were in your shoes. The PA w/ OW would have just torn me apart to shreds, and I would have wanted to run away a million miles away from my spouse.

What I was doing consistently in the last couple of weeks is just being more of myself towards her. Earlier, I think I was colder towards her as a part of my attempt to detach and 180 -- to be less of a parent figure, to be less of a giving person in the relationship. I'm by nature a fixer, a let's-get-it-done person. I don't like to sit around.

Anyway, I have no idea if the recent warming was due to me, or due to something going on within my W's own journey. I just felt better being more me, rather than trying to DB in a calculating way.

And, I don't know if the warmer vibes really signify anything. Actually, I'm quite certain it doesn't mean all that much. It probably just means she'll be more amicable in seeking a divorce.

See, the fundamental problem in our marriage is BPD. I believe she originally fell in love with me incredibly intensely because of her dysregulated emotions. I was, for that short duration, just perfect in her eyes. But soon after we married, reality intruded into our marriage and it's been rough since. I think she repressed her discontentment for a long time, but when she had her delusional affair, though the affair itself failed, she realized she can't do it no more. This type of disillusionment with marriage and your spouse can and does happen with mentally healthy people, but the intensity of emotions at every juncture would be far less intense; they would not have a delusional relationship with a lover; they would have a more rational approach to building a happy life; and they would be less likely to fall into substance abuse.

I'm not trying to mind read my W. I'm not spinning my wheels trying to second guess. Sure, the recent development is on my mind. But it's not drowning my thoughts. I'm not changing what I'm doing. I'm just trying to take care of myself, and take care of my kids.

Doesn't mean there isn't heartbreak. The whole damn thing tears at me every day when I look at my kids. It's a bad dream.


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Quote:
I guess my point of all this. Time DOES heal. Things DO get better, if someone is stupid enough to to not want you, be smart enough to let them go. Because there will be someone out here who does want you for who you are and that is what I focus on and I feel the best I have in a long time. Again this doesn't mean I have given up on my W and that I don't love her, it just means I'm letting her find herself.


Actually I think you are finding yourself.

Question: If you step back from your situation and imagined it was your child in their twenties going through what you are going through, what would be your advice to your child.

Think about it. You can handle it.

Strength and Honor.

Mules


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Doesn't mean there isn't heartbreak. The whole damn thing tears at me every day when I look at my kids. It's a bad dream.


What happens when you look in the mirror? What do you see?

Strength and Honor.

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Being more of yourself sounds like the perfect DBing. It sounds like you were trying to detach in a way that wasn't working for you. You can still be warm, kind and receptive without pursuing. IT's ok to feel pain over her actions and words, it's not okay to let those emotions rule your behavior and reactions.

I ran away from my WH plenty. I kicked him out about three time and saw a lawyer twice. I called him the most vile names in the book, once I sat in the car screaming in his face at the top of my lungs for at least 5 minutes straight. The picture of DBing I was not. (This was before reading DR) At times I fantasized about committing violence on him and OW. I would play out fantasies where I came to their job and put posters on the wall of what they did. I wanted to cause them pain that they caused me, I hungered for revenge.

I partially got my revenge by sending OW parents a letter exposing her affair, mentioned I was pregnant and had permanent heart damage from the stress. I thought I had succeeded, especially when OW texted me (what I thought) was a deep, heart felt apology. In the end it just pushed them back together and they resumed the affair. My actions resulted in more pain for me and a deeper injury to our M. After reading DR I realized my biggest mistake was trying to stop the affair and make ultimatums. I could not accept that I could not control my WH and this created more hurt to myself. The tighter I held him, the harder my demands the more he despised me.

So I read DR, got a coach and started my journey of recovering myself. I started to seriously question some basic things about myself. I began to see how I was coming across to my WH in our marriage, specifically the years before the A. I realized I had become very hard and unforgiving. I was so busy waiting for WH to "pull his load" to "step up to the plate" that I never asked myself what I could do to help our marriage. Sure, I suggested MC but that was because I wanted someone to point out to my WH his shortcomings, I felt I was the mature one and needed very little change. I was so wrong.

This is a process that never truly ends. I find I like myself better when I am kind and quick to say I am sorry. Strangely enough this resulted in my WH becoming soft towards me and for him to start doing the real work of reconciliation. Before when I was making my demands and ultimatums he would only half @ss participate, and grudgingly at that. Now he actively asks what he can do to make me feel safe.

I am not entirely sure we are piecing yet but I do like the direction our lives are moving now.


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Originally Posted By: PsySara

This is a process that never truly ends. I find I like myself better when I am kind and quick to say I am sorry. Strangely enough this resulted in my WH becoming soft towards me and for him to start doing the real work of reconciliation. Before when I was making my demands and ultimatums he would only half @ss participate, and grudgingly at that. Now he actively asks what he can do to make me feel safe.


I think you are doing the right thing. I can argue with my husband and he doesn't always like that, but I just don't have it in me to be mean and even if at a particular time my husband isn't open to respond, at least I feel I am doing the right thing and I am not escalating the situation. When he is angry, I remind myself that God will judge me for how I treated him, not how he is treating me, and that motivates me. You have to be yourself as you say, because to a big extent that is why they stayed with us all this time so far.

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Quote:
I can argue with my husband and he doesn't always like that, but I just don't have it in me to be mean and even if at a particular time my husband isn't open to respond, at least I feel I am doing the right thing and I am not escalating the situation. When he is angry, I remind myself that God will judge me for how I treated him, not how he is treating me, and that motivates me. You have to be yourself as you say, because to a big extent that is why they stayed with us all this time so far.


Stay true to yourself and your values. It can't be wrong.

Strength and Honor.

Mules


M 43
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Bomb 2/05/08
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S'd 3/15/09
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FG, you're on the right path. Sara is right with her comment about being yourself is the best way to DB. You are a solid and good man and father. I can't think of anything better to strive for. Keep pushing to be that version of yourself and let he chips fall where they may. Do what makes you happy brother!

Mules, you have some excellent thoughts/perspectives in your posts. They are very much appreciated by myself, and I'm sure a bunch of others as well!


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All -- thanks for your thoughts. This is such a lonely process. I've reflected a lot about friendship during this process, and have learned a lot about friendship.

Mules -- eye-opening questions, as usual. What do I see. I can spend an hour talking about this, but to summarize ... Foremost, I hope my kids see a solid, steady, kind and loving father. That's the most important thing to me. For myself, I want to see someone who had the strength to seek what is right, and do what is right. In that regard, I'm a work-in-progress, but I feel good that I'm giving it my all. I will keep thinking about this. Your question is a gift.

2Lady -- I am not a religious person, but I like what you said: "I remind myself that God will judge me for how I treated him." To rise above the dysfunction of the relationship, and to do what you believe is right. Thank you for that comment.

I am in limbo, but every morning I get to wake up and see my kids -- I'm thankful for it. That's what I want right now.


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Quote:
I can spend an hour talking about this, but to summarize ... Foremost, I hope my kids see a solid, steady, kind and loving father. That's the most important thing to me. For myself, I want to see someone who had the strength to seek what is right, and do what is right. In that regard, I'm a work-in-progress, but I feel good that I'm giving it my all. I will keep thinking about this. Your question is a gift.


Interesting FG. I love your response. Here's the thing: In taking a look at yourself your first response was hoping your kids see you as a "solid, steady, loving father." (btw that's how I would have answered also). BUT for yourself you very humbly admit to being a work-in-progress and that you want to see someone who had strength to seek what is right and do what is right..

I think it's incredibly telling about your character that you continue to put your kids first. Nobody can ever question that. BUT for your kids to see you the way you want them to I think you have to get to that person you want yourself to be. In other words, there are times you need to put yourself first. This is one of those times and in essence you are ultimately doing it for them. They want to see you as the leading, strong, steady man you are looking to be (and quite frankly are a lot closer to being than you think). I hope that makes sense.

You are close FG. Keep working, it's not easy, but it will payoff. This is about you, not any R. As CT puts it, you're in a fight for self. You can handle it.

Quote:
I am in limbo, but every morning I get to wake up and see my kids -- I'm thankful for it. That's what I want right now.


I think limbo is what makes you feel so lonely. So gameplan. What's the next play against limbo?? I always like an aggressive approach as opposed to a conservative one. But I'm an old QB so that's to be expected. What do you think?

Strength and Honor.

Mules


M 43
W 44
M 17
T 22
S16,12,9
Bomb 2/05/08
I served her 1/06/09
S'd 3/15/09
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Quote:
Mules, you have some excellent thoughts/perspectives in your posts. They are very much appreciated by myself, and I'm sure a bunch of others as well!


lt, thank you very much. I know how much help I received. It was invaluable. I feel very lucky to be where I am now and wanted to somehow give back. It amazes me how after all this time this site looks and feels exactly the same. Kind of chilling. I'm in awe of this place. Everyone here is fighting for their families. If that doesn't warrant support, I don't know what does.


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I don't have an aggressive plan to escape my limbo.


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ForGump,

Have you considered running for president?

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Quote:
Then earlier today, amid an exchange of messages about what our kids may or may not know, she says she'd like to talk later this week about "an idea" she has.

I'm guessing the idea has to do with financial, housing, and/or child custody dimensions of our divorce. I'm sure she still believes that getting out of this attraction-less marriage is the key to her happiness.


Hi FG - Quick question...did you ever find out what her "idea" is? Sorry if I missed it..

Mules


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W 44
M 17
T 22
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Bomb 2/05/08
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S'd 3/15/09
D'd 12/21/09



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No. We were supposed to meet 1-on-1 for her to tell me about it, but my FIL just got diagnosed w/ cancer last Friday and we've been dealing with that, so I'm guessing she'll bring it up later.

The only real, lasting solution for my situation is for my W to be treated by a professional for her mental problems. Her problems are bigger than just two normal adults having marriage trouble. It's been there all her life.


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Originally Posted By: ForGump
No. We were supposed to meet 1-on-1 for her to tell me about it, but my FIL just got diagnosed w/ cancer last Friday and we've been dealing with that, so I'm guessing she'll bring it up later.

The only real, lasting solution for my situation is for my W to be treated by a professional for her mental problems. Her problems are bigger than just two normal adults having marriage trouble. It's been there all her life.


So sorry to hear that FG. You have a lot on your plate.

I am very familiar with a WW with issues. Went through it, big time. Does she acknowledge the problems or get angry if you bring it up?

You will handle this.

Strength and Honor.

Mules


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W 44
M 17
T 22
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Bomb 2/05/08
I served her 1/06/09
S'd 3/15/09
D'd 12/21/09



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I and others close to her have told her that she needs professional help, and she gets angry. Most advice I've read about BPD says the sufferer will reject help until s/he hits rock bottom -- and even then, maybe.

I'm having a rough week. Too much pressure @ work, so have been working around the clock, w/ little time for myself. Should be better next week.


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I and others close to her have told her that she needs professional help, and she gets angry. Most advice I've read about BPD says the sufferer will reject help until s/he hits rock bottom -- and even then, maybe.


This is a tough trail to navigate. Been there. Done that. Didn't work. She ended up severing ties with everyone who told her to get help. She got help a few years later and now sees my kids twice a month for about an hour and a half. Unfortunately she will have to make the decision to go herself no matter how much collateral damage is caused. It will require you to exhibit enormous strength and honor.

This is not an easy journey FG. More important than ever to take care of yourself. Keep your body and your mind healthy. Be that person you strive for. The one your kids look up to. Strong, steady, kind and loving. Lovingly detach. Become that leading man. That's attractive. You can handle this.

Quote:
I'm having a rough week. Too much pressure @ work, so have been working around the clock, w/ little time for myself. Should be better next week.


TGIF..Go attack the weekend. Get your rest. Than go GAL. Embrace the journey. All good rides have highs and lows.

Strength and Honor.

Mules


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M 17
T 22
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Bomb 2/05/08
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S'd 3/15/09
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Just curious -- what was the professional diagnosis that was given for your W, when she finally got help a few years later?


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Originally Posted By: ForGump
Just curious -- what was the professional diagnosis that was given for your W, when she finally got help a few years later?


I honestly don't know FG. She went 3 or 4 years after we were divorced. She made the decision to go herself and is being treated for it. Afterwards she did gravitate back to some of her family. She is now with a guy who seems to balance her. And I'm happy for her. I really am. And it's good that my kids see that and sense it. It's cordial now.


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Just checking in Gump. Have a good weekend!


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Hey buddy, hope you have a relaxing and recharging weekend!


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Originally Posted By: mulesqb

She ended up severing ties with everyone who told her to get help.

Hmmmm....no isn't this something familiar. FB message from cousin two-three months ago stating "I told her you can run from [CT118], but you can't run from you. And then she deleted me as a friend". FWIW ForGump.

Originally Posted By: mulesqb

This is not an easy journey FG. More important than ever to take care of yourself. Keep your body and your mind healthy. Be that person you strive for. The one your kids look up to. Strong, steady, kind and loving. Lovingly detach. Become that leading man. That's attractive. You can handle this.


FG - you can handle this my friend. Your sheer tenacity of effort here and the brevity of your input prove it...to me, for sure, to you?

Originally Posted By: mulesqb

And I'm happy for her. I really am. And it's good that my kids see that and sense it. It's cordial now.


Mulesqb - you are an elevated soul my good man, what a fantastic statement. In fact, the best we all could hope for, should it not go the piece'ing direction for us, IMHO. Not that piecing is most important as long as "self-ing" is met.

And FG, long time friend in terms of being friends in a place where time moves slower than time outside of here, do this weekend FG-style. Do it this one well. I have a great one lined up with my son - what are you planning?


"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies.
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Hmmmm....no isn't this something familiar. FB message from cousin two-three months ago stating "I told her you can run from [CT118], but you can't run from you. And then she deleted me as a friend". FWIW ForGump.


I think this is pretty common. WW are just looking for yes men. If you're not one. You're out.


Quote:
FG - you can handle this my friend. Your sheer tenacity of effort here and the brevity of your input prove it...to me, for sure, to you?


It starts with you FG. I know the person in the threads i have been reading can handle this. No doubt.


Quote:
Mulesqb - you are an elevated soul my good man, what a fantastic statement. In fact, the best we all could hope for, should it not go the piece'ing direction for us, IMHO. Not that piecing is most important as long as "self-ing" is met.


thx CT. Honestly time helps. An old poster who I respect more than anyone (who has recently showed up here...his name is Bworl...he was an absolute rock for me), sent me a excerpt years ago about forgiveness. It was one of the most important things I have read in my life. I will look back in my posts and see if I can find it to re-post it. I think you will like it. If I find it I will post on your thread. Understand, it probably took me about two years after he sent it to me before I could put it into action.

The other part is the kids. If one of their parents struggle, they struggle. If they see their parents not getting along, they struggle. If you have kids, once you have yourself in shape they are an incredible source for strength. You want to show them how to handle adversity. You want to show them integrity. You want to shield them from as much of your situation as you can. Trust me, they are sooo much better off and I have proof of that.


You guys will all get there no matter how things play out. As we talked about on your thread, enjoy the ride. Redefining yourself in your adulthood is a major life event. One that plants the seeds for the next phase. It's up to one's self how that goes.

Strength and Honor.

Mules


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W 44
M 17
T 22
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Bomb 2/05/08
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S'd 3/15/09
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I am just so damn tired

Ten years of loving someone doesn't just go away because she's acting like a monster

The heart ...


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Originally Posted By: ForGump
I am just so damn tired

Ten years of loving someone doesn't just go away because she's acting like a monster

The heart ...


There's no script FG. Be you. What is the heart telling you?

You can handle this.

Strength and Honor.

Mules


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W 44
M 17
T 22
S16,12,9
Bomb 2/05/08
I served her 1/06/09
S'd 3/15/09
D'd 12/21/09



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Much has happened. Too much. I don't want to go into it here, at least not now. Day-to-day things are much more friendly. I don't know -- I don't think -- that the basic geography has changed.

In that sense, my heart is the same: as long as my W and I are able to treat each other in an amicable way, every day I have full access to my kids is a gift.

I could feel differently at some point.


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Quote:

In that sense, my heart is the same: as long as my W and I are able to treat each other in an amicable way, every day I have full access to my kids is a gift.



Sounds like you are listening to your heart. You can handle this FG.

You truly are Strength and Himor.

Mules


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T 22
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Bomb 2/05/08
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S'd 3/15/09
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Thanks for being there Mules. Your testimony of your own experience gives me a lot more hope and strength than you probably realize.

Though it might be a simple idea, the idea of being true to one's heart is a good reminder. Something I need to hear on a daily basis.


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You can never go wrong falling back on kindness and strength. Sending you healthy vibes and peace, my friend.


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Nights are quiet. And I'm alone, able to think.

While my life, and my family's life, are in limbo, I don't want time to go by meaninglessly. I want every day to count for something. An obvious thought, I guess. Or, obviously, life and meaning happens whether or not I'm conscious of it. So maybe what I mean is I want to be more conscious of how every day is meaningful.

So, each night, I'm going to think of one thing I want to get out of the next day. Something positive, something fulfilling, something meaningful. By default, this life in limbo lets me see the kids when I wake up and in the evening. In addition to those things, I want to be aware of one more good thing the day brings. Whether in relation to the kids, for my work, or something personal just for me.

For tomorrow, it will be to help a friend with job search.


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Forgump, I haven't checked up on you for a while, and I just want to send a lot of love to you in this difficult time.

I'm sure you've seen on my thread the trials and tribulations of my wh. He too has a lot of issues and needs medical help, only he is in utter denial and meets this with anger. Unfortunately, as hurtful as it is, they're adults, and we can't force them. They need to want to help themselves. It's hard to learn to switch the default of helping them off.

I agree with Sara about still acting with kindness. Sure we could hit back at the ws with anger, but where does that get us?! I find it better for myself if I can be kind and cordial, and I know by doing that I'm doing the right thing for my child.

I like your idea of doing something meaningful that you want to get out of the next day. Just make sure some of that is something for you.


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Quote:
Though it might be a simple idea, the idea of being true to one's heart is a good reminder. Something I need to hear on a daily basis.


It's more important than any DB technique. Don't ever forget that. You got this FG. No doubt in my mind.

Strength and Honor.

Mules


M 43
W 44
M 17
T 22
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Bomb 2/05/08
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Despite the recent warming ... or maybe because I think it maybe lulling me into an emotionally complacent place, all the while my W still has her heart set on a divorce ... I think I need to start preparing myself for a divorce in a more methodical way. Not just fill out the DIY divorce paperwork itself... go further: I need to spend a lot of time preparing mentally and emotionally how to deal with the loss for myself, and witnessing and helping my kids experience the loss. Probably pick up some books on helping kids through a divorce. Maybe there are some online forums the focus on divorce and kids. I also need to take concrete steps for finding and establishing a new house/condo/whatever.


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Gump. I'm sorry about your situation but preparing is a good thing to do. Having the knowledge can lessen worry and anxiety. Hang in there.


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FG -- preparing doesn't make a D any more likely and probably would help you rest at least a little bit easier on several fronts. Hang in there, man -- you're an inspiration in terms of how you keep your focus in the right places.


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Hang in there, what has she done to move the D forward? If she's stalled then just let time be your friend.


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Originally Posted By: ForGump
Despite the recent warming ... or maybe because I think it maybe lulling me into an emotionally complacent place, all the while my W still has her heart set on a divorce ... I think I need to start preparing myself for a divorce in a more methodical way. Not just fill out the DIY divorce paperwork itself... go further: I need to spend a lot of time preparing mentally and emotionally how to deal with the loss for myself, and witnessing and helping my kids experience the loss. Probably pick up some books on helping kids through a divorce. Maybe there are some online forums the focus on divorce and kids. I also need to take concrete steps for finding and establishing a new house/condo/whatever.


And you need to take care of yourself FG. Always prepare for the next move. A good basketball coach always gives his team an answer for anything they might see. That gives them an opportunity to be successful.

Anticipate anything that can happen. Prepare for it.

Be you. You can handle this.

Strength and Honor.

Mules


M 43
W 44
M 17
T 22
S16,12,9
Bomb 2/05/08
I served her 1/06/09
S'd 3/15/09
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FG - my friend

Originally Posted By: mulesqb

And you need to take care of yourself FG. Always prepare for the next move. A good basketball coach always gives his team an answer for anything they might see. That gives them an opportunity to be successful.

Anticipate anything that can happen. Prepare for it.

Be you. You can handle this.

Strength and Honor.


what mules said.

Get those books if you feel you need to. It's good to be prepared. Get some new music for yourself. I am still exploring mudcrutch off your inadvertent recommendation. Be well. I wish you sleep.


"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies.
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Gump -- please let me know if you stumble upon any good books for helping kids through divorce.


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Together 21
D13; S10
BD: 03.03.15 (Not attracted to you)
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I have a stack of 'em ... collecting dust & library fines. Hard for me to cross the emotional barrier to crack them open.

I was told "Mom's House, Dad's House" by Isolina Ricci is a classic.

I'm able to spew gungho DB stuff here, but find it hard to do half of the s[h]it in real life.

Living it day by day.


Me: 50, MLC/WW 45
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Just popping over to say hi Gump. How's it all going?


Me - 47
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Thanks, FG. I'll check that book out. And I know exactly what you mean in the rest of your post.


Me: 46
W: 44
Married: 17
Together 21
D13; S10
BD: 03.03.15 (Not attracted to you)
Almost 2 years trying, alone, to save marriage
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Quote:
I'm able to spew gungho DB stuff here, but find it hard to do half of the s[h]it in real life.

Living it day by day.


Hang in there FG. Do the best you can. One day at a time.

You will turn the corner. I promise.

This is a traumatic experience. Everyone recovers/heals at their own speed. I fully believe my sitch happened for a reason. I understand that better now 7 years down the road. Try to embrace what you can. I was like you. But I look back differently now and see something that was necessary in my life. It's hard to live it at the time, real easy to play armchair QB later on. I'm here to tell you that things will get better no matter how they turn out. You are grieving your old R. Nothing wrong with that, and very necessary to heal. Own it.

You can handle this.

Strength and Honor.

Mules


M 43
W 44
M 17
T 22
S16,12,9
Bomb 2/05/08
I served her 1/06/09
S'd 3/15/09
D'd 12/21/09



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ForGump,

Com'on buddy - the "DB stuff" is not spew. What is your evidence for thinking like that? Seriously, you are an educated man and I have asked a serious question, which matters to me. What is the point of education if we can use it to stop our own minds and ask if we are not on the right path?

I am not suggesting you should be anywhere other than where you are right now, but why is your motivation for claiming DB is equated to spew (as in spew for which all these DB forums define the term)? You have been educated - so please, I have three questions above evidence, education, and motivation...please let me know.


"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies.
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D: Mar '17
Piecing: Putting the self back together was my piecing.
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I think you may have read too much into my use of the word "spew." Or maybe my use of it was inflammatory. I called it that because it's so easy to spout DB principles and advice, especially for others, yet incredibly difficult to do it for your own situation.


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I totally get what FG is saying. When I read others' situations here, it's frequently very clear to me what the poster needs to do or at least what (s)he should do to maximize the chance of coming through things in the best shape possible. So I find myself posting, trying to help, etc.

That sort of clarity eludes me in my own situation. My situation? It's like being swamped by a hurricane, while others' situations are like watching news coverage of the hurricane from my living room in another city.


Me: 46
W: 44
Married: 17
Together 21
D13; S10
BD: 03.03.15 (Not attracted to you)
Almost 2 years trying, alone, to save marriage
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^^^^ Like


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I totally agree with JRuss. One of the reasons I like to read through old threads is I see successful DB'ers slip then just dust off and try again. Their endurance was inspiring and let me know I could keep trying, keep fighting, I could endure.

Going through the emotions of being the LBS is grueling and agonizing. But like a seasoned veteran, you can become strong and wise. You can rise above.


M 10yrs T 13yrs
BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW
BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off
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April '17-Letting go
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Originally Posted By: PsySara
Their endurance was inspiring and let me know I could keep trying, keep fighting, I could endure.


Our endurance is inspiring too. smile


"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies.
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D: Mar '17
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Originally Posted By: CT1118
Originally Posted By: PsySara
Their endurance was inspiring and let me know I could keep trying, keep fighting, I could endure.


Our endurance is inspiring too. smile


Absolutely this! We shouldn't lose sight that we have all chosen a hard path and should be proud we are still trudging down it. Says a lot about everyone's character around here.

JR, you feel the same way I do. Feels like I'm in a tornado when my situation picks up steam, but it's so easy to give advice for others in equally brutal situations. Got to love human emotions and the irrationality that comes from them!


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Where are you friend?


M 10yrs T 13yrs
BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW
BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off
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April '17-Letting go
2018 D busted
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Originally Posted By: PsySara
Where Iare you friend?


I second that. Wherever you are FG, I wish you peace, music, and a night's rest.


"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies.
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D: Mar '17
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FG

I am also in Limbo. W not sorted mediation - for D but she instigated it. She is no longer moving forward at all. I am not going to pick up her ball.

At first limbo was not nice. Now it is. Don't pick up her ball find things that make you happy. You are going to do things you want to do, focusing on one thing a day. This is a great start. Plan things a little further ahead too when you get into the swing of things.

Try not to worry what she thinks, is doing etc. Focus on something else for a change. Give yourself a break. Be kind to yourself. You are a good man and you are doing the right thing. At times we can't see how well we are doing as we are in the middle of the game and it's confusing. You are doing great. Get that PMA back!!!

Surfer.

Last edited by Cadet; 11/09/16 07:19 AM. Reason: Start a new thread message

M46/W40/D8/S6/T20/M12/Separated 6/2016,W takes kids
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Originally Posted By: PsySara
Where are you friend?


ForGump - I hope you are well my friend. You spent enough time here to know we are thinking of you. I hope that energy pulls you back to say hello.


"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies.
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D: Mar '17
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I've been hesitant to post. An event outside of my control has plunged my situation even deeper into a state of limbo. I've sort of arrived at a place like where JRuss is in, although the timeline for me isn't nearly as long as his (supposedly 2 years).

I've thought about posting about it here, but recently I've also been feeling a bit exposed about this website -- I wonder how anonymous and private it really winds up being.

I've often thought of my new timeline as a "gift of time" for me, but actually I am no longer purposely doing "DB". I am not trying to do "what works". I am not purposely trying to do "180", "GAL" etc. The new timeline is, however, a gift of time for me and my kids: it's a time when I can see them every morning, night and weekends. So I am trying to just love them the best I can, appreciate my daily time with them while I have it, and, as well, I am trying to be happy for myself, without relying on the marriage and my wife for my happiness.

I have let go of my fear -- substantially, anyway, though not wholly -- of the pain I will feel when the family actually breaks up, when my W has left me. I don't think I can prepare myself for it. I'm just going to accept that it will hurt when it happens.

I do think about you all, and appreciate your friendship, however strange it is ... to be friends this way. I'd much rather sit with you in person and have a pint.


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Apr 2016: BD2
Jan 2017: W filed
Feb 2017: D final
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Sorry brother. I definitely would love to get together in person with so many people from this board. Do what you need to do. Hang in there.


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ForGump - thinking good thoughts in your direction. I remember when you joined our little club. You burned so brightly with a need to make things "right".

Your light has been dimmed but it is not out. I know that you have within you the depths of strength necessary to make it down this new journey whatever it may be.

Good luck and I hope to see you here from time to time. You have been a great source of comfort to many of us here but first you need to look after yourself and your kids.


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Lovely words Andrew.

Gump, you have been there for me in the deaths of my despair whilst you were in your own. Take care of yourself and know that we are always here for you.


Me - 47
H - 45
D-16
M - 6 years
Separated - May 16

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Post only what you are comfortable posting. This place is for you. I know where you are at my friend. It gets better, I promise. But it does take time.

Strength and Honor.

Mules

Last edited by Cadet; 11/18/16 06:17 AM. Reason: Start a new thread message

M 43
W 44
M 17
T 22
S16,12,9
Bomb 2/05/08
I served her 1/06/09
S'd 3/15/09
D'd 12/21/09



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Apr 2016: BD2
Jan 2017: W filed
Feb 2017: D final
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