Cherry.Papers filed "am I making a mistake".focus!

[Cherry]

I'll just give a brief re-cap for anyone new.
Around oct 2014, my h, a man who has always been so loving and close to me began to pull away. He had just been promoted and was being really pushed at work, he wanted to be successful at it- so he worked damn hard. I supported him physically and emotionally the best I could, I was his biggest cheerleader. Our lifestyle had undergone a huge shift already as we had just had a baby a few months before.

After a few months of him being a little distant, from super chatty and telling me absolutely everything. He had become withdrawn and silent. He started to change passwords on his phone, he had always been so open with that, we both had. I started to suspect ow. Jan 15, he told me he wanted a d. I made the mistakes, then came here and started the work. Although saying he wanted a D, he never seemed to research it seriously. He said we would do it once I'd "got my head around it". He moved into a spare room. Eventually he confirmed a EA, and he would cake eat, at times tell me he wasn't sure he wanted to D me and he still had feelings.

Apr 15, he called it off with ow. And asked if we could work through this, he was honest and admitted he slept with her a few times. In hindsight, I took him back quickly. We started to work through this and were completely transparent. But we didn't tackle the main issues. Again, Oct 15, he withdraws- no talk of D. For months, I endured a rollercoaster of ILYBNILWY then a month or so later ily. Back and forth. Things started to improve in May. We were close again. Having regular sex again. Mid June I realised I had fallen pregnant. Although, surprised and shocked (we both kind of were) h was so happy, said how we were closer to our big family he wanted with me. A week later, he's hiding his phone, I snooped and found suggestive flirty messages between them. With her giving advise that he should leave me and s "it's totally normal these days, not even a big deal". He then tells me that we aren't right for each other and he wants a divorce.
He moved into the spare room again.

The papers are now filed and he is leaving soon. He still denies that there is a ow. But I'm no fool!! He's began the last couple days to begin to speak to me again. And he decided to share with me that he finds when he looks at me he struggles to contain his sexual urges. I'm resisting these words, it changes nothing. He still wants a D.

My focus now is absolutely on me. We are heading for a quick d, and I'm now figuring I just need to let him go and get on with my life for myself. I am the woman that he is a fool to loose, and maybe at some point he will see that for himself. But not in the way he is now, he would have to be my h, not the wh he currently is. And he is no way capable of being him.

This is pasted from my last post. In the meantime, I've been very much focussed on me, busy with my responsibilities, work and a bit of a social life. He had began to creep closer to me, then he had a chat to me where he said he felt he is perhaps making a mistake. The papers are already filed but he is questioning himself, he feels he has a problem in himself looking for more love, which he mistakes lust for. He questioned why I hadn't tried to stoPsysarah, that's the way I note things too. It does help to be detached somewhat so the changes in behaviour don't hurt me or change my moods. And yes a real 2*4 or a 4*4 may be even better.

Grl, I listened and validated, I was on the lookout for potential spew that may help me. But it was all about him, I even hinted towards him that we both contributed to where we are now. But he had nothing negative to say about me. He kept saying this is about him and his feelings, that I hadn't done wrong and was a good wife and that I was beautiful and a good person. A 180 of mine has been to closely listen and validate, he would complain before that a talk would end in me not listening to him, or interrupting it- or making it about me. So to sit and stfu and just listen and validate is a 180 of mine.

Haha Zeus that's so funny! What a great idea, I shall locate a horse and get my chain mail out later on. I may throw a rose at him too, maybe throw my hankie down to him to let him know he is mine..

In the meantime, a lovely warm sunny day, so I intend to make the most of it, packed up the car and taking S on a day trip, my folks are coming along too, so it should be a nice day out of the house. Fresh air works wonders on the soul, as does seeing my S enjoying himself. Sometimes I'm not in the mood to drag myself out, wether it's that I physically feel under the weather, or I'm just feeling a tad withdrawn. I always find getting myself out and about really does help- and I'm always glad at the end of the day that I was productive. I'm not really a fan of a pity party or allowing someone to make me question my worth. Think it's new thread time- so I'll meet y'all over therep this and wanted to see me fight for our m. I said what would that look like, he said throwing myself at him, telling him off, calling him out on his behaviour (?!) yano, all the stuff db tells us not to do! I paid it no mind and have carried on business as usual.


http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2704809&page=11

[lt0402]

I agree, I think it helps to be given different opinions and see what works. Sometimes it's hard to see straight when in your in situation, a different view from an outsider can help.

And I do welcome a hit with a 2 x 4, because sometimes we all need a kick up the ass, I also welcome support! Heck, everyone's is welcome a mi casa!

I have had yet another busy day with S.. park, a nice walk, a guilty shop for me and picked up my new iPhone. The task now is sorting it out, my patience does not extend to technology! Wh was around today, I don't know why, but he is back to ignoring me. Again I'm still carrying on as normal. His chaos, not mine. I don't know if I journaled the other day that he said he thought I would fight for us more. I'm not sure if this is a scripted statement? Anyone heard this? I chose not to change my approach to db-ing. Would you agree this is right? I don't see how throwing myself at him when I'm treated like sh!t would help me at all. I chose to step back and leave him to it to respect his wishes, but most importantly help my own sanity. If I was in a perusing stage (like he kinda requests) then I would be a needy attached individual. I don't think I'd have self respect for myself, and I would never have been able to come to terms with being separated, or able to see my L, or have my papers ready to file. Plus, it seems like a request to cake eat, have some needs met elsewhere and the ego boost of a w at home meeting needs and throwing herself at you?! No can do.

It just seemed really strange that a wayward would say that they want a D, but then say that they want to see you fight for your M more? Gees.. don't worry, I didn't take it onboard. Nor has it changed my approach, I just thought I would throw it out there and get it journaled down in my telenovela..

Cherry, my W says the same thing about me not trying to save our M. It used to kill me to hear it but now I just let it roll off. I know that I'm busting my a$$, and you should to, to save your M. Don't listen to it or react to it bc it goes nowhere. Maybe it's our WS way of trying to allay their guilt by thinking we also didn't truly want to be in the M either. Who knows. I do know that my W started saying it when she started to see that I wouldn't be pushed around by her anymore.

Keep doing what you're doing and be your strong self! You rock cherry!!!

[Cherry]

Lt0402 you're right, and it was after the time that I began to pull myself further away from him. I think you have a good point on trying to shift some guilt like "well you didn't want it either, you didn't try and stop me"

[Altair]

Cherry,
It's like he's trying to put half the blame on you. He filed, (50% fault, in his eyes) and you didn't try to stop it (50% fault).

Hm. That math is plain incorrect. Then, since both of you equally participated, then he can absolve his guilt.

[AndrewP]

Cherry - your strength and compassion continue to amaze and inspire me and probably pretty much everyone whose life you have touched. I haven't posted recently on your thread but just wanted to say "hi" and thanks for past kindnesses.

With her giving advise that he should leave me and s "it's totally normal these days, not even a big deal".

I just wanted to say how much I absolutely hate when people say this. My first IC (who fired me) used to go on about this.

PS - if you want to start over again in Canada my offer of the spare rooms in my house is still open I just hope you're a cat person.

[Cherry]

Altair, you're right. I had thought of temp checking but it hadn't occurred to me about blame shifting! Hmm

Thank you Andrew, that's nice so nice to hear lifted my somewhat groggy mood. And thanks for the offer, I am actually a cat person! Love them

Had a good but tiring day. Now I'm tired, throwing up and generally cranky. My mood is a little meh. Would just be nice for a cuddle right now. Instead, once the little one goes to bed, I'll have a nice hot bath, and watch a movie I think.

[Phoebe]

Cherry, you are doing amazingly well. That you can let that stuff roll off you this well is just incredible.

I agree with everything that has been said above. SO much of what is said in the heat of emotional turmoil is blame-shifting and projection and taking the path of least resistance. It is so much easier to blame another person, saying something like "you make me feel inferior" (or fill in whatever the complaint de jour is), rather than taking the emotional responsibility upon yourself. It's hard to say that "I feel small and powerless because I don't have a lot of self-confidence and I'm unsure of myself."

My WH told me that I wasn't a fully-formed adult, yet at another time he accused me of always treating him like a child. How does that work? Out pops whatever backs up the WS reaction in that moment. My WH knows his behavior is completely regressive, but then tried to accuse me of the same (projection), or else tried shifting the blame to me and implying that I somehow made him act like a child because I treated him a certain way. I call BS on that. No one has the power to MAKE you feel a certain way.

On some subconscious level they recognize the reality of the situation, but they cannot accept that it is actually their own faults they are seeing reflected back at them. The more outlandish the accusation, the worse they feel about themselves or the more conflicted they are. Bear in mind that I'm not at all saying that I am without faults, nor is anyone here. I'm just saying that if something doesn't make sense, then you need to consider the source.

Him faulting you on not fighting harder for your M is simply him trying to make himself feel better for not doing so himself. That's an easy one, but not so easy to sort out in real time.

I have no idea how you do it, Cherry, but you have been a trooper through all of this. Hang in there lovely lady.

((((((Cherry))))))

[Cherry]

Thanks phoebe I had to find a way to step back so then I could let some actions roll off me. Don't get me wrong, their is times I hurt and I miss the old days, but they were days with my old h, not the man here today. He's too toxic and all over the place to be connected to him, and it would for sure make me unable to function if I was still hanging onto him.

You're absolutely right, the way I see it is ive been fighting for this m for a very long time. I guess to a degree I still am, but I needed to step aside and get myself stronger before he drained me.

I have no doubt that amongst their actions that they find it difficult to understand all of a sudden we are no longer crying, or moping around. Funnily enough, his spew is very rarely anything to do with me. This whole time, it's mainly been about him, and he's still praised me- which I guess adds a little to the confusion. It's like one of the things I said to him about why would I persue him/try to sleep with him, when he has told me he didn't love me anymore. He just replied something ridiculous like well would you believe me if I told you that the sky was green? And then tells me he does still love me.

All I could do was validate, but not believe a word his says. Talk is cheap after all.

[Buxom]

I totally concur with Phoebe!!
((( Cherry )))

[Cherry]

Is there seriously a mail order script for waywards? A PDF perhaps, or a PowerPoint for those visual types. He came to see me in the early hours. And flat out denied saying any of the other days conversation. You know like I sat and imagined it. Back to I shall be moving, the papers are going through, I know I've made the right decision. There was times I couldn't even validate. I don't think I said anything of any damage. I was particularly cranky this evening through tiredness, aching limbs, headache and vomiting; I really didn't want him to come at me with any of his spew because right now- I just wanted alone quiet time and sleep.

I mainly listened, I did kinda say "but you did say this".. then I gave up, because what is the point. I know it doesn't change anything, I knew he would deny this, so I didn't take things onboard. But if they catch you off guard, it can occasionally get to you when they just deny everything. I guess I'm trying to make logic of a situation where there isn't any.

I think I shall go a little further dim for a few days while I refocus. He stormed out of the room, after standing in silence - talking normally, and he switches because he is "p!ssed off". I'm not sure I can even manage civil right now with him being so toxic. If someone can get angry when nothing is even being said- I'd sooner back off. I did have to bite my tongue from saying "when are you going then". I do think things will be somewhat calmer all round. A little less confusion for me and S. He hasn't seen S at all now for 3/4 days. S hasn't even asked for him. And S seems to have rather perfected ignoring him, for the last week or two, he's took to running in the opposite direction when he sees wh in a room.. and this is the friendliest kid who waves and says hello to anyone he meets. This is hurtful for me, because despite how I feel, I don't want to damage the r between father and S. But I guess toddlers can't process or speak through their emotions, they just go to whoever they feel safe and loved with. I just got to protect him the best I can.

[CT1118]

My focus now is absolutely on me.

You're absolutely right, the way I see it is ive been fighting for this m for a very long time. I guess to a degree I still am, but I needed to step aside and get myself stronger before he drained me.

CT1118 *smiling large while bowing in complete respect, agreement, and humility*

[Zues126]

Is there seriously a mail order script for waywards?

Yes. I didn't write this, this belongs to someone else in the annals of DB history. Enjoy:

MIDLIFE for Dummies

Welcome to the wonderful world of Mid Life Crisis!! You are about to embark on one of the most perilous journey's you have ever taken. A journey fraught with intrigue and guaranteed to turn you inside out! This book is designed to help you make sure you get the most emotional bang for your buck. In these pages are the "how to" answers to the questions you have been asking yourself about damaging as many people as you can along the way. Come on and dig in, it's time to get this Roller coaster rolling on down the tracks!!

Chapter 1
Choosing the correct speech

There are 4 basic speeches for you to choose from. They are:

a) I love you but I don't know if I'm in love with you.

b) I've never loved you, and we should never have gotten married.

c) We got married to young. I never knew anything besides you.

d) You tricked me into marrying you, I would never have done it otherwise.

Once you have decided on which speech to give, you need to cause as much anxiety in your spouse as you can before you actually give it. Continue to the next chapter for Lessons in building anxiety.

Chapter 2
Lessons in building anxiety

You will find these lessons to be helpful in causing anxiety in your spouse and others (depending on the level of pain and damage you want to cause), not just prior to giving the speech, but throughout your MLC.

Lesson 1
Monstrification of your Spouse

This is easy to accomplish. Simply think of only the "bad" things that your spouse has done throughout your entire relationship. Have one of those "angel" spouses? No problem, just remember how bad she always makes you feel. DO NOT under any circumstances remember fondly your spouse, or anything they have done for you. Remember, they are going to be the cause of all of your problems, so it is imperative that you convince your self of this first.

Lesson 2
Emotional Detachment

This will be very easy to do after accomplishing lesson 1. All you have to do is start reminding yourself that you don't care about them, what they feel, what they want, or if they hurt. Simple! Every time you remind yourself of this, you will get further and further away from your relationship emotionally. Now, that wasn't too hard was it? On to lesson 3

Lesson 3
Mass confusion and Indecision

This lesson requires a little more thought and attention. You must constantly practice saying "I don't know" to ANY and ALL questions. That is imperative!! Your spouse (and others) must never know precisely what is going on in-side your head. Also, never let them know where you are going, where you have been, who you were with (this will go hand in hand with the lesson on the Other Person, or OP), or whether or not they can expect you to return home.

Lesson 4
Lies and Deceit

To get the most damage, and cause the most pain, you must lie and decieve at every opportunity. And to really achieve hall of fame status, you should be very inept at it, so that everyone knows that you are lying, or suspects, but can't prove it initially. This works very well for the following chapters, OP and Cake Eating.

Chapter 3
The Other Person (or OP)

Now it is time for you to succumb to temptation. You KNOW all of those other women/men want you! They have been coming on to you for years!! It is time for you to give them their chance at having some of you. Make sure that you leave a very confusing trail for your spouse to follow. One that lets them suspect, but have to dig and sneak (to make them feel worse about themselves) to find the information they need to prove it. Hold out admitting the affair as long as you can, and don't admit it ever, if you can get away with it.

Chapter 4
Cake Eating

This chapter is designed to string your spouse along in uncertainty as long as possible, because as long as they have hope, they won't be able to go out and find their own lives and be fulfilled. Why should they get to do that, while you are so miserable? They shouldn't!! So, make sure that you are affectionate occasionally (not too often, as this will raise anxiety levels), that you drag your feet about making a decision on the marriage, and that you leave and come back several times (as many as you can get away with).

Chapter 5

History Revision

It is very important that you revise the life you have lead with your spouse. You must use words like: Always, Ever, Never and All of the Time. Always precede the statement with the terms: you, I, and we. As in "you always nag me" "I never ever (double bonus here) get to do what I want" and "We have to do what you want all of the time". This will help to make your spouse feel like the way you are behaving is all their fault, and can cause them to feel even worse about themselves than they already did!!

Chapter 6
It's all about you!!

Remember this is all about you! What you want and need, RIGHT NOW! You shouldn't have to wait until you can afford something, just go on out and get it! You deserve a new haircut, new clothes, and some new toys. You've worked for it. You would probably look great in that new Convertible, or on that new Harley!! So don't hesitate! You live in the here and now! So why wait until tomorrow!!

Remember, the word is CRISIS and if you are in one, EVERYONE else should have to ride the Roller coaster with you! It's no fun taking a ride alone, and you know what they say about misery loving company! Go on out there and get started, so much pain and damage, and so little time!

Chapter 7
Avoid, Ignore, and Run Away

This chapter is to help you deal with the problems that your spouse will try to cause. We don't want you to have to "deal" with anything, now do we? You shouldn't have to "think" about any "issues" right now, except those that concern you "feeling good". The best way to handle this, is to Avoid, Ignore, and Run Away. Any time someone tries to make you see a more "reasonable" stance on a subject, simply Avoid making a reply...stare out into space, as if you are thinking about something important, and they will become uncomfortable and leave you alone. If there are responsibilities that need your attention, simply ignore them. You don't have to do anything you don't feel like doing. And the best for last is Run Away! This can be accomplished in many different ways. OP's can help you Run Away from all of these "problems" as well as Alcohol, Drugs, New Sports Cars....etc the list is endless. Of course, you can always just leave...but remember not to let them know where you are going, and if you'll be back!!

Chapter 8
MC and Therapists:

Your spouse may ask you to go to counseling with her/him. This is only useful to make them feel better. It cannot possibly have anything to you so there is no reason for you to follow-up with anything suggested--it doesn't matter to you. The only thing you should look for is more reasons (excuses) for avoiding, running and ignoring (see previous chapter).

Chapter 9
I Don't have to if I Don't Want to and You Can't Make Me!

Remember that this is about YOU, and what YOU want and how YOU feel!! No one else is important, so don't let them make you feel as if you have to listen to anything they say. Your spouse will try to help you of course, because they love you. Don't let them get away with giving you unwanted advice. Let them know in the teenage vernacular, that they can't make you do anything. This is important, you must be as childish as possible!! Any truly adult behavior on your part will only convince them that you are listening to what they are saying, and you will have to start back at the beginning. Of course, this technique can be used knowingly to cause more confusion and chaos, just beware of the danger, you don't actually want to start acting like an adult!!


Chapter 10
"How to threaten" and/or "How do move out".

You threaten to move out for weeks or months but you don't. (*)You tell your spouse that you got too much on your plate right now to look for a flat but that you will do so in 2 weeks time. After 2 weeks, repeat from (*).

If your wife wants to come too close to you, like entering your bedroom to talk to you, tell her to stay away or you will move out. When she replies that you will move out anyway tell her that you will move out faster if she comes any closer

Chapter 11
Art of Clinging

The Art of Clinging to the End of the Mattress without falling off the matrimonial bed while still sharing it with your spouse.


Chapter 12
Advanced lessons

This is usually reserved for those in more difficult situations, where the LBS has responded not by tossing you out, threatening to leave, or filing for divorce, but instead persists in not only OFFERING to cooperate, but actually MAKING THE CHANGES you said you needed.

"I am tired of living like this/I don't want to live like this anymore/I am not going to live my life like this?" often is coupled with another advanced tactic, "It's not you, it's me".

This line is most effective AFTER the LBS has jumped through hoops and bent over backwards. It basically confirms that no matter what changes the LBS is willing to make, the incompatibility lies within the MLCer, who has no intention of, or implied desire or ability to, compromise.

Appendix

HOW TO MAKE YOUR SPOUSE THINK SHE IS CRAZY

1. When confronted by the evidence of an EA or PA, become very indignant. Stress that the LBS is obviously just a jealous sob/bi*ch, and you are entitled to "buddies" of the opposite sex.

2. Never, ever answer the question, "Are you okay? Is there something wrong?" with a direct answer that might actually lead to a discussion that might help the marriage. Continue to never talk to spouse, never give her/him a personal compliment or touch of affection and by all means work on the "cling to the edge of the mattress to avoid touching" manoeuvre that is so successful in making your spouse crazy.

3. Always bear in mind that your spouse will expect you to want to at least give them the chance to "fix" the marriage. Since you have already checked out emotionally (of course NEVER tell them that!), you are under no obligation to actually listen to anything they say or acknowledge anything they do. This tactic is also extremely beneficial when they employ the MLC diet. When they lose a massive amount of weight and you are in ear shot of someone who mentions to spouse about the weight loss, say "Are you losing weight? Why don't you ever tell me things?"

4. Of course one of the most successful ways to drive them crazy may only be used when you have earned the MLC Black Belt. Go to marriage counselling for months, let them pour out their soul to you and the counsellor and let them believe they are actually accomplishing something. Then arrange things so the spouse finds you in your own home with OP. This will accomplish two things: a. She will finally have to understand how lucky you are to have found your "soul mate" and b. She will be doubly betrayed because she thought you were actually working on the marriage.



DON'T LET YOUR SPOUSE GET TOO INDEPENDENT - STATEGIES FOR SUCKING YOUR SPOUSE BACK IN

1. Make negative comments about OP or the chances that the relationship with OP will succeed. HOWEVER, under no circumstances, make any commitment to end the relationship with OP.

2. Make veiled hints about suicide or excessive drinking or drug use. Be erratic and hard to contact.

3. Do random acts of kindness such as yard work or something. That will keep your spouse confused and hopeful.

4. Make vague comments hinting that things might work out between you and your spouse IN THE FUTURE. HOWEVER, under no circumstances take any actions to work anything out.

CUSTODY
Using the kids to your advantage.

If you have children, they can be extremely useful for inducing fear and panic in your spouse. Recommended phrases include, "You're poisoning my kids against me", "You put that idea into their heads", and "You need to do [insert pertinent action here] for the sake of the kids'." Remember, your spouse, being a responsible and loving person, is not only trying to cope with his/her own feelings, but trying to protect the children, and you can use that to your advantage.

Don't forget to use the fact that if you spend any time with your kids, you should get Extra Credit Bonus Good Parent points from your spouse. It doesn't matter if you feed them ice cream for breakfast and have them watch "Hellboy" when they asked for "Veggie Tales", you Just Wanted To Make Them Happy, and since YOU are the best judge of Happiness, that makes you Super Parent. You can use this opportunity to trash talk your spouse ("Isn't this more fun than what Mommy/Daddy would let you do?" "Mom/Dad doesn't know how to relax.") which of course, will be repeated back to your spouse so you get the benefit of destroying their self-esteem second hand.

Highly advanced MLCers may want to start casually using the word Custody, but be very, very careful. While useful for sending your spouse into a state of panic, you certainly do not want to be responsible for a bunch of kids who will seriously cut into your personal fun time. The word Custody should only be used in a casual tone of voice for the most devastating effect.

BUTTON PUSHING

You (the mlcer) know a lot about your spouse. You know what pushes their buttons to get them both upset and/or happy. You have the power, you can do it! So using the kids to upset them is fair game (see section on how to use "custody" to upset them but not take on the "custody"). And if that ever stops working, find something else. Suggestions might include pets, valuables in the home, their appearance, family, career. Nothing is out of your reach since you have put in so many years getting to know your spouse--use what you know.

THE BLAME GAME

By now, you should be aware that all of this MUST be your spouses fault, however, your spouse may not understand this completely yet, so you need to start planting the seeds.

There are several ingenious ways to put the blame on your spouse, and we will be exploring them all.

Method 1: The Non-Blame Statement

I'm trying not to blame YOU

This statement implies that you are "not putting the blame on them" but on closer look (which your spouse is guaranteed to be doing) The words actually put all of the blame on the spouse (where of course we know it belongs).

Method 2: The Passive Blame Statement

I don't think that I can live with you.
My opinion never mattered to you.
I cant' live like this.
We rarely have fun anymore.
I don't want to live this way anymore.
(There are many more I'm sure you can think of)



These are passive statements that don't actually assign blame to your spouse, but your spouse will definitely get the idea if you use them. They can't help but see that it MUST be them that makes you feel this way.

Method 3: The Direct Blame Statement

You never listen to me.
You never put creases in my pants.
You use bagged salad.
You never keep the house clean.
You are going to do it your way.

All of these are direct statements of blame. You should mix actual faults with things that don't really matter to make it more confusing, and make your spouse feel as bad as possible about themselves.

Your spouse has probably already started doing the hard work to look inside his/herself (Yuck, what an awful thought!) and will take on all of the faults you list to try and correct them. This will keep them occupied for awhile, and you can avoid any serious relationship talks while they apologize for and try to fix all of their own faults. Make sure that you don't actually accept the apology, that way you can continue to bring the fault up which will slow down their self improvement process. Remember, they are working on becoming better human beings, and you wouldn't want that to happen to fast, as that would interfere with your ability to string them along.

Note: NEVER ACTUALLY ADMIT TO ANY FAULTS OF YOUR OWN!!!! REMEMBER, YOU DON'T HAVE ANY! YOU ARE THE GOOD ONE, AND HAD THE RIGHT TO HAVE AN AFFAIR, LIE, SPEND MONEY, OR ANY OTHER THING, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE ONES THAT ARE BAD!!!

let's not forget "We're just incompatible - we always were."

Also, when the LBS starts to make changes, make SURE you find fault with these changes, or point out how it's "too little, too late", or wasn't what you meant AT ALL. If all else fails, put the LBS down for being so willing to change herself for your needs. Also, when the LBS starts to make changes, make SURE you find fault with these changes, or point out how it's "too little, too late", or wasn't what you meant AT ALL."


How to keep you spouse guessing...be mean one minute threatening divorce, etc then next day be kind and sweet almost the way your spouse remembers you..rinse repeat....


HOW TO CONTINUE THE CRAZINESS ONCE SEPARATION/DIVORCE IS AGREED UPON

1. Even though by now you, dear MLCer, have done everything human possibly to convince your spouse that you do not love him/her and want out, when the time comes to actually file, DON"T DO IT! This is the coup de gras of MLC. Absolutely DO NOT TAKE THE INITIATIVE. This is a most vital and awesome crazy-maker. Holding out will force your by now totally devastated spouse to finally throw up his/her hands and seek legal counsel.

2. Once the LBS has had enough and decides that divorce is in their best interest, you have won HUGE points here. Refusing to be the one to file now puts YOU in the role of victim, bringing you all the attention and pity necessary to allow you to again regain your image of the abused one in all this. Now you can, with absolutely NO guilt, tell everyone the divorce was your LBS's idea (which of COURSE it was!) and they will assume that: a. the LBS lost all that weight and obviously has been involved in an affair, and b. the marriage ended because your LBS spouse is going through a - YES! THE PINNACLE OF CRAZINESS! - Midlife Crisis!!

[MrBond]

This was actually something that someone found on another MLC forum. Scary how similar things are in everyone's situation.

[Cherry]

Zeus, that is genius! It's like a ticklist!! I also got the tales of him feeling suicidal. Maybe he does, or maybe he doesn't. Who the heck knows!

[CT1118]

Chapter 6 - its all about you!
Ahhhh, thank Jessup for my healing - that made me laugh out loud.

[Coly23]

Oh Cherry, you knew to take his words with a pinch of salt and he has proved you right.

Shame about his relationship with S, but you can't be responsible for everything. he has to take responsibility for that.

[Cherry]

Coly, unfortunately so. They just follow a script. Very scary and strange how similar all of their behaviour is.
His r with S is very sad. All he ever wanted was to be a dad. And S always meant the absolute world to him. It does hurt me, though like you say, this is really all him. I just know that the person he was, would be heartbroken to see this. Despite what happens between me and him, I don't want to keep him from his children. And I shall remain civil to make sure we can parent them together and make them feel loved. Right now, I'm just trying my best to protect S from the confusion by myself.

Today I'm just going to withdraw a little. The old me may have stayed angry with him. My 180 will be calm. Part of this is frustration, part of this is I am just feeling kinda done. The past couple days I have actually started to feel could this be salvaged, could I trust him, do I want him. I've not been at this stage before, it's quite confusing. He is very suicidal, he has told me several times that he just doesn't want to live anymore, he hates the pain. When he talks like this, yes I am concerned, at the end of the day- he is the father of my children. I don't want him to feel suicidal, for his sake and theirs. But their really isn't anything I can do to help him. He just continues to push me away. I told him if he feels that way he needs to seek help, which he dismisses.

[BluWave]

" I don't know if I journaled the other day that he said he thought I would fight for us more. "

I just read this quote in your last thread and all the replies from posters, and was fascinated by the different responses and reactions! I think it strikes a chord with every one of us because we each feel that ALL we have done is fight for our M. That is WHY we are here and that is where we have been putting TOO much energy!

So for a wayward to say this is confusing, yet the irony is undeniably funny! Some posters gave you kudos because it shows you are able to DB and demonstrate detachment, some suggested that it was hopeful because is shows he cares, others found the humor in it, and some viewed it as blame shifting. My initial thought was blame shifting as well. If you are able to DB, do your 180s, detach, and validate, then you are not giving H much ammunition and therefore all he has left to do is to blame you for that in and of itself! Ha!

But in further thinking, Cherry, I honestly don't know why he said that. We are all mind reading and as I ALWAYS say, "mind reading NEVER works." It never works because no one can ever know what is in another person's head. Also, when the head is foggy, all of the thoughts and feelings get clouded and most likely they don't quite understand their intentions either.

So, all that said, none of us have a clue what he meant. Thus, why I go back to the DB principle--believe none of what they say and half of what they do. Right now he is filing for D, and so that is all we know. That is all you can work with. Back to the drawing board!

Cherry, I see the tremendous growth in you and a lot of potential. You are young but are able to see the value in your children's R with their father despite his troubles. This is golden. You are gaining insight into yourself and are motivated to make positive changes. The fact that you recognize your mistakes in your M and have done some 180s in your communication with him, will carry you far in life. Keep that chin up, stay strong, and keep moving on without him. You WILL be fine!

(((Cherry)))

-Blu

[hawker]

I agree Blu that it strikes a chord, that's what couldn't believe that my W didn't even try to work on the M. It's crazy to me how all the scripts are similar.

I am also impressed with you Cherry...keep staying strong!!!

[Cherry]

Thank you guys, I'm glad you all think I'm doing well- that means a lot to me, the encouragement does help when I have one of those moments where you wonder if you're doing this right.

Blu- I totally think it was blame shifting. It's one of those "well you didn't try to stop me". But yes mind reading will never serve you well, nor does hanging onto their word- an example being him saying he feels he is making a mistake, two days later "I didn't say that". Also "I know I do still love you" then last night "I didn't say that".

As angry as we can get with them. He looks so miserable, closed off. Not talking to anyone including S. Spewing contradicting things left right and centre. This behaviour doesn't hurt me really anymore. If anything, I kinda pity him. He speaks about suicide, he is oh so very depressed. It cannot be easy to be in that kind of mind set. The brain must be swirling with all kinds of thoughts and emotions.

But again, I understand that I can't help him. He doesn't want me to. He is broken, and I didn't do that, I can't fix him. He's sat in his own little isolation right now. Meanwhile me and S are making the most of this September sun! Enjoying playing out in the garden, he's burning off energy, and I'm getting fresh air, sun and the satisfaction of seeing him laughing and enjoying himself

[AndrewP]

Zeus, that is genius! It's like a ticklist!! I also got the tales of him feeling suicidal. Maybe he does, or maybe he doesn't. Who the heck knows!

Cherry. I just wanted to drop in a note on this. Having been suicidal myself on this journey more than once (and being me) I've read up on it. Ask yourself honestly - is this just drama or a legitimate cry for help? I read somewhere (don't remember if it was a peer reviewed document or not) that the time between deciding to kill yourself and doing it can often be measured in minutes. I've experienced it myself. Reading about suicide on one of the web sites that actually helps you plan it out was very helpful - can't remember the link. What they wrote that had an impact on me wasn't about the emotional aspects, or about the impact on your loved ones, it was the fact that suicide was messy and often didn't work that helped pull me back from the brink. I got there because I was researching if overdosing on my blood pressure meds would do the job.

I remember after one of my first episodes when I contemplated driving my car at full speed into a train - telling W about it. Not to "get her attention", or "make her feel sorry for me" but out of honest concern about how far I had sunk and looking for help. She was horrified (family members had committed suicide) and got quite upset with me and begged me to not do it. It very much made no difference in our sitch and she's probably forgotten all about it or believed it was just drama. The earlier episodes were in many ways a "cry for help" where I felt that was the only way out for me and W. One later episode in August which had a lot of people here very concerned about me was just "darkness". I did cry for help here then and many people including yourself I believe answered the call for which I continue to be grateful. That time wasn't a fix, it wasn't to get attention, it wasn't even thought through very much. That one scared me most.

What I'm trying to say is that if there is a legitimate cause for concern about your H doing self harm that a human life is far more important than a MR or anyone's pride. If you have information on a local suicide prevention hotline or something similar perhaps see if you can give it to H and even perhaps program it into his phone. Having someone to reach out to when he's in that moment of crisis who won't judge and isn't involved may just save a life.

Hugs

[Cherry]

Andrewp, thank you for sharing this with me. Last night, I dunno, I guess I thought it was possibly drama. But watching him today, when he thinks no one is watching him, he is a deeply deeply depressed person.

You're right, this does go past pride or the M. I told him last night that he is the father of my children, and I worry for him for that reason. Today, I have been the lighthouse, again I think he expected anger or the cold shoulder from me today. He didn't get that. He got polite and civil. Even managed a convo about non R stuff. I made a big meal, as I always do on a Sunday. I asked if he wanted some with us now, or would he eat later. He said he would eat with us. It's not about persuing it's about politeness. It doesn't bother me either way really if he does or doesn't eat, but in treating him like a houseguest, I would offer food. Heck, I'm Latin, we feed everyone that passes by the house!

I will do some research, maybe ring my doctor and see what they would advise for assisting someone who feels this way. And this is all R feelings aside. If a stranger told me they were feeling suicidal I would step in, I'm maternal, I'm caring. I have felt depressed before, almost to that point but not quite, and I hate the thought that anyone could get to that point. Again, thank you Andrew for sharing your story and support

[Coly23]

Gosh Cherry, this is such a lot for you to deal with. AndrewP is right your H does need some professional help as soon as possible.

Take care of yourself and your little chicks Cherry we are all here for you...

[Cherry]

He does indeed. And thank you, it's hard to understand what has brought him to feeling this low. He has always had a loving supportive wife- love from his mum, his child, there's been no shortage of love so it's hard to understand

[Coly23]

So maybe he is having a tough time trying to reconcile the guy he has become with the guy he used to be. I can imagine he must carry a lot of guilt around with him knowing what he is doing to your family and that is why he can't bring himself to spend time with S and seeing your ever growing bump must be tough.

This adds a whole new dimension to the situation because it puts into question if he really in his right mind to be making such huge decisions like D. Would the courts take this into account?

[Cherry]

Yeah you are probably right. I don't think he would enjoy causing pain. The man he was certainly wouldn't he was the sweetest and would do anything to help anyone. He did express to me the other day of fears his decisions will result in him loosing his mum and child too. I do make the effort to speak to mil about being a bit kinder to him, but she can't bring her to. She hates that he is doing this, she's an adult at the end of the day- and I cannot control her thoughts neither. I do make the effort even when he hides himself away now to get S to go in and give his dad a kiss and say goodnight. Yes, he should be doing this himself (wh I mean), but at the end of the day- I don't want my S to be scared of his daddy and feel unloved.

I have thought that, surely you have to be of sane mind to agree to these things. He is now awaiting an appointment to see an ic. The only problem is he can be very good at lying . Last year, he had an appointment and he lied and said he felt fine, but was so obviously depressed. Now he is admitting it to me, and he's telling me the suicidal thoughts. But wether or not he discusses this with ic is a thing I don't know, and is also out of my control. He has now come to the realisation he has a problem with himself, this has been a consistent issue in his spew.

A lot of this is really and truly out of my control. All I can do is keep my side of the street clean. I'm carrying on taking care of me, S and bump the best I can. I'm focussed on improving myself and getting myself stronger. I avoid getting involved in any situation with him where I may feel anger. Yes last night I must admit I most probably was fairly irritable, but it was nearly 3am and he was angry and all over the board. And a month ago, I probably would have got angry and spewed myself. I do have more control over that, and there is a bit more detachment there than was there which certainly helps with regards to letting his moods dictate mine. I guess in a way it's being a lighthouse, not in the hope that it will bring him to his senses, but that's the kind of person I want to be. I want to radiate a happy person that shines, I want people to feel comfortable around me. I'm smart enough not to let anyone take advantage. But there is nothing wrong with being a good happy person, peaceful in a way that helps myself too.

[PsySara]

You are an amazing light house. You are definitely doing well with lovingly detaching, I wish I had been able to muster your strength during my pregnancy. I didn't find DBing until 2 months after the little one arrived, and not a moment too soon. I wish we were neighbors so we could sit on the porch like little abuelas and gossip.

[Cherry]

Sara, that would be a dream. I think we have plenty in common. I wish we didn't necessarily have so many of the bad things in common, but I find so many similarities in your sitch that I can relate to you. I think you do a great job! Do-big is definitely helping me become a better me, communication skills that can come on use every day.. I'm a very private person, but people always come to me to confide and ask advise, I do like that I must emit some kind of energy that means people can trust in me.

The detaching thing has took me a while this time, maybe it's all the hormones and changes within my body that's making it hard. Facing a pregnancy alone is quite tough, I have a lot of respect to women who do this alone. And also to be carrying the baby of someone you love who is leaving you is tough. But I'm focussing on my little ones. Aside from the sickness and the effects pregnancy seems to have on my body, I do love being pregnancy. It facinates me that two cells just divide and make a person. And I'm quite proudly walking with my head held high and my little bump becoming obvious. I'm way calmer now, I'm aware there's rumours in work. I've had a few gossips come to tell me they've heard things, I kinda don't care, I tell them politely that I don't care for gossip, it's none of their business, and that if they wanna question these things- go speak to wh.. I had this conversation with eh the other week, I told him about these people. He tells me it's just rumours, I quite frankly don't care. But he said tell them to go to him and say it. So I'll do just that.. I know full well they won't!

Again, it's taking the moral high ground. My side of the street is clean. I'm not getting sucked into the dramas- I'm here to do a job, get paid so I can do my best and make myself and my babies proud. I will not hide away. My head is up!

Finding myself now starting to look into baby things which is exciting.. looking at my budget (classing this as my own single income as it will be when he has d) and seeing what I really need. A few people in work have recently had babies so getting excited at doing it all over again. I know it'll be a bit tricky having a toddler and a newborn. But I do love the newborn stage.

[hawker]

I can't imagine having a little one and another one on the way and having to go through this at the same time! You have come along way and continue to detach well and you are a strong woman! Can I join you 2 on the porch and gossip? haha

[Cherry]

Of course, the more the merrier!
And thank you, I don't think I realised how strong I was, I've always been one to put myself down and dismiss when people give me compliments. Part of my db is to learn to love myself a bit more, accept compliments and be proud, not shy of my accomplishments.

Had a good day at work, oh so tiring- I feel like brain power exhausts me at the moment! Had a rather cringeworthy moment of a guy hitting on me today, telling me "how sexy" my body was (even with baby bump!) was an awkward moment where I didn't know wether or not to say that I'm married, I presume he knows- but may also have heard rumours. I thanked him for the compliment but said I didn't think it was appropriate! The attention from others may be flattering, even while pregnant, but I'm not in any way wanting the comfort of someone else, and also- someone that can hit on a pregnant married woman seems somewhat lacking in the kind of morals and values that are important to me.

Had eaten before wh came home. Not used to him coming home, nor wanting to eat with us. Was just bathing S as he came back. He seemed surprised we had eaten without him (I shall not overthink, nor try to understand why he thinks we would wait on him). He was cheery enough, so I just explained there was plenty food left in the kitchen. This of course is a luxury he will not have when he moves out. He hasn't lived alone before, I had for years before meeting him- and I know the loneliness and tiring feeling after a 12 hour day coming home to an empty house and needing to cook a meal.

[Natus]

Had a rather cringeworthy moment of a guy hitting on me today, telling me "how sexy" my body was (even with baby bump!) was an awkward moment where I didn't know wether or not to say that I'm married, I presume he knows- but may also have heard rumours. I thanked him for the compliment but said I didn't think it was appropriate!

I think its sexy too, i find pregnancy to be a beautiful thing and enhances the beauty of a woman. I cant be the only dude who thinks that way.

[Cherry]

Natus, I hope their is more guys that think the same tbh. I'm trying to embrace my pregnancy figure, I'm rather petite normally, im only 5"4, but slim with narrow waist and wide hips, bum and chest (I guess typically hourglass) , but my hips seem to get even wider with pregnancy and because I'm so small normally, I'm now starting to feel big. I didn't particularly feel attractive last pregnancy, despite everyone telling me I look great and "I'm all bump", but this time round I guess I'm finding it a little harder as I don't have my h telling me how great I look. Instead I'm kinda feeling the rejection that he left me instead.

Still, I'm trying my best to embrace my bump and extra new curves. I always think that pregnant women look beautiful and so womanly (I just don't seem to have these thoughts about myself! ) I know this is another self esteem issue that I should conquer!

[PsySara]

I used to envy pregnant women and their shape. Then I had the same dissonant feelings you describe when I was pregnant. I didn't like looking in the full length mirror when I was in the bathroom, things just seemed...alien. But I look back on my pics and realize I looked freaking cute when I was pregnant. I am only 5'1 and weigh 115 pds at my top weight. (I only weigh about 108 now thanks to the stress of this last year) I really wish I had focused more on me during my pregnancy and bought myself a maternity massage or a mani/pedi. If I were there with you I would force you to go to weekly massages just to live vicariously through you, LOL!

[ForGump]

I can't say I find all pregnant women beautiful but when my W was pregnant ... well, what can I say, now that my W is leaving me.

She was ...




... beautiful.

[SH_]

Cherry....Attitude makes any woman beautiful.
You have plenty of that sassy, strong, wonderful attitude.
Curse the hormones for making you self conscious......

Pregnant
Strong
Wonderful mother
Loving
And the list goes on...

You are gorgeous of course and don't you forget that.

Keep on keep en on.
You be doing great and I love the banter in your postings of late.

[cheesyt]

Going to throw out my two cents, I personally think pregnant woman are so cute / sexy!

I'm sure you look great Cherry!!!! Embrace that baby bump!

[Surfer]

someone that can hit on a pregnant married woman seems somewhat lacking in the kind of morals and values that are important to me

Sounds romantic to me. Did he say it just outside the girl's toilet too?

Surfer.

[Cherry]

Loving the enthusiasm here for the pregnant female form, I shall own it and be proud! Sara, it amazes me out similarities! I'm a bit taller than you, but currently weighing 116. Lbs, my 24 inch waist has grown to 25 and hips at about 38 inch (eek). Still I'm female, I'm an hourglass so I'm embracing my curves! I'm planning a prenatal spa date with another pregnant friend, she is getting towards the end so will be a nice treat for us both!

Surfer, it wasn't quite. Almost took the romance away. Usually the water cooler or the photocopier where these romantic males of my workplace descend on me.. and who said chivalry is dead?!

[Cherry]

Having a rather sickly and tired evening. Was feeding S as wh got home. He decided to sit and eat with us. He didn't say a lot, but that's OK, I don't really feel like making small talk with him anymore. But I'm polite. When I put S in I bed, he asks me my work schedule for tomorrow, I tell him what I'm doing.. and then asked him why. He said he was thinking we could talk (my mil found the d papers the other day, so I've a feeling it's about that). I said okay, what about. He then snapped, I will tell you when we talk and storms out.

Another burst of anger, these bursts randomly come out. And I know its spew so I leave it and don't rise to it. I'm getting kind of done with his whole constant conversations, it's like every few days. And I get myself back together again and keep on and he delivers me with another one. These are the times that make an in house separation difficult, asvrather than hit you with something and leave you to it, it's kinda persistent, and as detached as you can be, the constant spew gets tiresome. Especially with hormones flying around. He told me he would be moved out, and I honestly don't know where he is up to with this, he doesn't seem to have viewed any more properties. Nor has he put any money into the account where our mortgage and bills come out of. So I've paid it all. But I'm not going to have him d me, and stay here saving for his exit. That's not right or fair.

So tonight I was feeling a little bla to start with, now I'm feeling moreso. I guess I would have been in bits panicking over what he has to say a few weeks ago. Now I'm not necessarily anxious, I just can't be bothered.

[ForGump]

Look at all you're shouldering, Cherry.

You are twice the human being your H is right now.

You can take whatever he dishes out.

[Coly23]

Hi Cherry, I'm sorry you were feeling a bit bleugh this evening. I always find it a little annoying that DB suggests not to initiate R talks but our WS can initiate to their hearts content! I would just go out tomorrow and say you forgot!

I was speaking with my friends at the weekend saying how much I regret telling my H if he wanted to leave then he should and that it would be so much better if he was home so we could work on our R but you know I'm not so sure now. I think of the time just after Christmas (BD) and when he left in May and remember how miserable we both were. These were the days before I read DR or found this forum but I actually inadvertently did a few 180's but it didn't seem to make much of a difference. I think he had made mind up that he didn't want to be in the M and seeing my desperate puppy eyes every day was making it worse.

Idk, maybe if I had all the necessary tools, which included the knowledge that constantly having R talks is not good, I may not be in this position now. But then again I just remember the turmoil and confused state he was in so I have come to the conclusion that the physical separation for us was probably inevitable and I dont think I could have stopped it. I think my life would have been ten times worse if he was still here... maybe.... Ugghh!

[ForGump]

in-house sep is torture

not only that, it makes your spouse focus all his discontentment on you, when really you are not the problem

[Coly23]

I think your right Gump. I imagine that when my H is sitting on his own in his one bedroom flat feeling miserable he doesn't have me or our M to focus all the blame onto.

Going dark or doing LRT is also much easier with physical selection. Even though I still really miss him and would probably sell my soul to have him back I know that staying in constant contact with him just isn't going to bring him any closer to me or give him the chance to miss me. I've really embraced not initiating any contact but if he contacts me I am friendly but short on words. I don't know if this will work to help him to miss me but it is actually making me feel a little calmer...

[Coly23]

*separation!

[Cherry]

Thanks forgump, I know this, but it's still a bit tough at times. I guess we can be the best we can, but we all have times when we just want to shut ourselves away. Especially the same thing over and over.

Shall try and relax this evening and get some rest. He can schedule his "talk" around me, not the other way round.

[Cherry]

Thanks coly. Yeah the first time I went through this, I used to think well at least he is still at home. But it's hard, them coming and going as they please. The constant mood swings, bouts of anger. And yeah I think for sure they feel this anger/depression/uncertainty and they see us and feel it must be our thoughts- so we get spewed at. Then there's the blowing hot and cold. Only last week he was telling me this is a mistake and he loves me, then back to not again.

And while you can keep going and pay no mind. It does become exhausting. And I think once they alone and need to do things by themselves and you're no longer there to put the blame onto, they have to look inside.

Meanwhile, he still has the ease of being at home and full cupboards, cooked food, bills paid, there child there. It's not exactly giving them the experience of what they say they desire.

[hawker]

Sorry Cherry, you don't deserve to be treated that way but it sounds like you are handling it well. I think I have read that more relationships survive when the couple separate. When my W left I think she thought it gave her permission to move the EA to a PA....blah...oh well...it is what it is....

[Cherry]

Yeah I read that hawker. I guess in the start that was always my worry. But now I just don't know. I see it as he will do what he wants anyway. And living at home with a person who is no longer your spouse, well now it's starting to feel a little like he is still just here to save money and make it easier on himself, and that's not easier for me. Maybe my home would be calmer without him, just feels like the inevitable being dragged out right now.

[hawker]

Oh, I totally agree that they will do what they want anyhow. It was easier for me when she left though, she wasn't the same person that I married and it was hard being around them like that so much.

[Natus]

I have to echo everyone else, in-house was torture. Once we physically separated was like a weight of my shoulders. Sure i cried for the first 2 - 3 weeks as reality of life without spouse set in but at the same time relief and a feeling of possibility sets in. You are free to pursue your life with your child the way you want it.

It'll be hard but exciting as well like knowing you are going to climb a mountain something switches on inside. There will ofcourse be obstacles and days that you feel like the world is ending for you but it will pass.

[Cherry]

It is, because there's no longer loyalty, relationship, friendship. They come and go as they please, spew all over. And I get to see him ignore our child, or stay out til all hours (he has been better the past week, and wanting to eat meals with us. Of course this means nothing).

Thing is, I'm already living the life as a lone parent. And if I say so myself, I'm doing it better than I thought I would! I'm balancing work and care responsibilities to my mil and child. I'm making sure we are okay financially. There isn't anything he is offering me right now except for stress. When they are just a shell of that person, it's not pleasant, like they look familiar- but it's not them. Nor are you sure which version of them you will get that day.

My concentration is one of trying to have peace. I want a peaceful home, without spew or uncertainty. I want to feel peace within myself, I want my child to be as minimally affected as I possibly can.

And I mean, how is a wayward living at home actually facing up to any consequences if their decisions?! Living like a student home for spring break. Come and go as you please, no worry of bills, taxes. Fridge and cupboards full, big meals made (I always cook in bulk!). Absolutely no responsibilities, life is like a holiday camp! Yes I know, they have the inner turmoil they battle, but that will only get hella worse when living alone and needing to pay and sort out so much more stuff, it's like starting all over again. Buying all the furniture and everything. So I think if he has his talk tomorrow and presents the papers, I need to be firm that he needs to go asap. I can't have someone fire me from their wife but still have all the comforts of a wife and a tidy warm family house and family living when it suits. It's hard because yes, I do still love him, and I know telling him to leave will be tough, and pushing him into this reality. But this is the reality he wanted. Not me. I wanted my family to stay together.

[Cherry]

Thanks natus. Yeah I can imagine initially it will be tough. Although I feel I have made progress with my detachment, I'm sure when he goes, there will be the sadness of "okay, this is not a drill. This is happening". But right now it's this thing looming that I know is gonna happen, but I don't know when, and the uncertainty of that isn't pleasant.

[PsySara]

My WH literally said he would be devastated if we divorce because I am his only friend and he would be lonely. In an earlier time I would have vented back that he made that bed when he cheated. Now I am like, "Yeah, that would be tough, huh?" And that's it. It's sinking into my husband's skull that he effectively threw away his wife and kids when he chased after headcase of a train wreck. The reality that I may not be here when he comes to his senses is beginning to dawn on him, and he's in a cold panic.

Meanwhile I am just here with one eye brow raised and observing the floundering.

[Phoebe]

Wow, I struggle so much sometimes, but compared to having to face WH every day, I have it easy in a lot of ways.

I don't have much to offer today, Cherry, beyond letting you know that I'm still here in your corner, wishing you well.

((((((((((Cherry))))))))))

[BluWave]

Oh cherry, I know it won't serve anyone for me to go off on your WH, but it is so hard not to! It seems like torture what you are going through and I find it so unfair that he continues this affair, threatens D, comes/goes as he pleases, but then has the nerve to just drag this out. Fog or no fog, this is a complete lack of respect for you as the mother of his children. It disgusts me.

Have you thought about taking a different, more firm, approach and just kicking his arse to the curb? As we have seen time and time again, it isn't until LBS is absolutely at the end of her rope and says "enough is enough, if you are not commited to this family, then you must leave," that H can start to even begin to feel the consequences of his choices. Just look at Sara's sitch. I can say the same thing about mine and have read it time and time again here.

Sadly for them it often IS too late. Even well into piecing (and my H has done everything he could and still will), I often wonder if I ever will feel as strongly about him again.

(((Cherry))) You have been the lighthouse for so long. We are all in your corner. You deserve some space and peace from this and so do those babies.

-Blu

[Cherry]

Thank you guys! Sara I don't think I'm quite at the stage of you as sometimes some actions do hurt me. But I'm starting to feel that exhaustion of the whole thing, the point where you start to think is the alternative really going to be much worse? I'm already living without him most of the time, he doesn't give me emotional support, support with our child, any help with housework/shopping/ financial in doing all this alone. So for me what will be the alternative? He just won't have free reign to come and go as he pleases, which will only mean that there should be some calmness as to when/if he's going to come in. I'm sure there will be some sadness initially, as it truly will feel like the end of the m. But I just feel now I'm prolonging the pain. He's already filed so there's nothing I can do about that.

Phoebe, thanks for the support, knowing I have you guys here is of great comfort.

Blu, I'm thinking this is the next approach. And I'm not doing it out of any kind of strategy, but out of sheer exhaustion. I can't deal with the same convo over and over again. It's exhausting, it really is. And I can't enable "the easy way" for him. If this is truly what he wants to go and do, then I've got to let him go and do it. But I know for sure, just filing the papers won't give him any insight on the consequences of his actions.. so he has a piece of paper to say he is no longer my h, okay fair enough. But doing that, then allowing him to still live here with all the home comforts, no responsibilities and still seeing his child as an when he pleases is just not how D'D living would be like.

I'm sorry you still find it difficult blu, although you are in a position that most of us would love to be in, I don't think a lot of us realise that piecing is probably the point everything hits us. The adrenaline and every other feeling we feel when dealing with a wayward is gone, and that's when we start to think can we ever be back to where we were? Probably not. I know they say that m can be stronger after an a, I don't know if that's the case. It's like the expression of dropping a vase on the floor, it goes to pieces, sure you can fix it back together, but it will never look the same. After wh came back after his first A, although we worked through it, some days it was in the back of my mind when I looked at him that I no longer looked at him with the same innocence that he was someone who couldn't hurt me. He had done. And now he's done it again, and whilst I still love him, I feel every time he delivers some spew, a little bit of those feelings for him are shattered. And this time, he's hurt me and left him at one of the points in a woman's life when they need a partner the most.

[JksD]

Cherry, sorry that your wh is still such a pita.

But you're sounding stronger and more anchored.

You have told him that you do not wish to D but you are also showing him that you are strong enough to be without him. And you're doing this in a calm and confident manner. You are civil/ cordial to him.

Now that he has filed, I agree that he will have to face the reality of what life will be without you and s.

You continue being the awesome, sexy and sassy mama that you are but your wh now is just a housemate that you will continue to be civil to.

[Cherry]

Grl, thank you. I do feel over the past few weeks I've become stronger. I think it happened when I learnt he had filed, and I truly realised this is what he is doing. So I needed to detach and step further away.

I shall certainly try my best. Pretty exhausted and feeling sickly today. Think I may bring my work home as today is draining me. I don't think I have the energy to get home and then him descend with his latest dose of spew. I'm pretty certain it will be the papers, he paid and started the process about 2/3 weeks and I still haven't seen anything. Wh seems to think that I don't need a L if we can agree on everything, but I still think I shall stick with having a L. Although I have legal knowledge and work in law- it's corporate, so a different ball game! I'd sooner have a D attorney look over things and for things to be sent to them. Although I'm feeling stronger, I don't think I want the added stress of dealing with it all by myself.

I think we can all agree that they don't feel what life will be like without us until they live it. So if that's the case, and he has filed, then he needs to leave.

[maybs]

the point where you start to think is the alternative really going to be much worse?

This is me. When my W and I do speak I feel complete indifference toward her.

At this point with my M I feel like I could take it or leave it.

I was recently asked by a friend to consider what would be the hardest part if our D were to be finalized. I thought about it for a while and I feel like it wouldn't make a difference. I already live alone and financially support myself and the household. I've already dealt with the fact the M as I knew it is over. What would really change for me?

On the flip side of that I was also asked what would be the hardest part if we were to R and there's a mile long list.

It seems crazy that deep down I do want to take the hard way, if I could live in an ideal fantasy world I would choose R. But then I sometimes ask myself why? Why put myself through that?

IDK, much like you I'm just exhausted by the entire thing to the point that I can't even bring myself to care anymore.

Anyways, you are doing great! I really do admire your strength. I don't know how I would deal with it if my W still lived at home.

[JksD]

Cherry, I agree with your stance on L. Dun let him guilt you into not having one.

You let your L do the dirty work, so that you can continue being civil to him.

[Cherry]

Maybs, it's weird isn't it. Whilst it's still not what I want, I can't say I want a r with who he is right now. I can't deal with the ignoring me anymore, disrespect, I want to feel loved and valued. And although I can't see me with another person, which makes me feel a bit sad. And I'm sad that he has taken away my belief in m and growing old together and raising our children.

I never thought I would get to the stage that I'm a bit too exhausted to carry on. But for me, I significantly lost hope when he filed. Especially for someone so careful with money, that he could rush straight through it and throw money at L's.

Grl, yeah I won't be pressured. I want to make sure I don't miss a trick or end up hard done by. I will not be bullied. Although I feel I've been pushed into a situation I don't want, I will control whatever is in my hands.

[Cherry]

The "talk" we apparently needed to have still hasn't happened. There's been a good few hours of the day we have been at home. I eventually asked him, he said he was about to go out.

Still just feeling quite fed up. Spent a day being sick and struggling to hold even fluid down so eating ice cubes like there's no tomorrow. I guess I'm fairly wrapped up in feeling unwell today that it's just making me a bit down and fed up of the situation with him. Still, I kept my distance and I think this shall be my stance. He's out this evening (surprise). But I kinda feel calmer. No spew opportunities. But I do hate when any one says to me, "I need to tell you something, but not now". Regardless of who it is, I usually react in panic mode. Constant worrying, this has been a trait for as long as I can remember. I'm kinda getting better at this. Telling myself, it's out of my control. So this is another of my behaviours that I'm trying to mend. I might not have saved my m, but I think I'm saving myself.

My ex before wh was verbally very abussive. It came to a stage that nothing I did was right, and I never knew what would set him of. I remember making him a cup of tea once and erupted that I put the milk in the cup first. It led to a violent rage and throwing the cup. He made a confident woman turn into a nervous wreck. It took me a long time to walk. But I did (and he wouldn't leave me alone wanting me back). In a matter of a few months (maybe 2) I got with wh. And he was amazing and so caring, I felt protected from him. The thing is, my ex did a lot of damage to me, I was a broken woman, and I don't think I started to build myself back up until bd1 in 2015. So I think now, I'm fully trying to identify these issues within myself and build me back fully into the woman I was.

[AndrewP]

I remember making him a cup of tea once and erupted that I put the milk in the cup first. It led to a violent rage and throwing the cup. He made a confident woman turn into a nervous wreck.

But ... But ... That's the "right" way to make a proper cuppa.

Cherry - I know I'm imposing on you but we have a new member Zanadoo to our little family. A young lady who used to be what she describes as a "firecracker" and now describes herself as a "mouse". I've suggested she come over here for a visit but if you don't mind doing a quick flyby you might make a great difference for a troubled and lost young lady who I think could use a friend other than the kindly grandfather type like me.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2705753&page=1

Yes - Zanadoo - I tend to meddle.

[Cherry]

Andrew, I agree! I make a great cuppa!

I'll make sure I swing by and pay her a visit. I'm sure she is glad of any support, you have great insight!

[Surfer]

Cherry,

Pay no mind to this - the talk. It's just a bunch of words. It may happen it may not. It may not even exist. You have heard much worse than he can possibly deliver. He is playing this out to make you live the roller coaster. You are letting him bully you. You know this but you, regardless, are riding it. Get off. Go sit on a deck chair and look at the sea instead - better still go surfing! Let him ride the roller coaster alone. It's not for you.

Walk away from the drama Cherry.

Surfer.

[Cherry]

Hey surfer! Thank you for swinging by, good to see you. Yup he temporarily sucked me in slightly. I have heard the worst, so why drag it out, why repeat it?! Questions none of us can answer so I won't pay no mind!

Having a relaxing evening by myself, relaxing and watching some tv. Enjoyed a lovely cuddle with S before bed. He tapped my belly and said "night baby" still not sure he fully understands, but it's hella cute either way!

Watched a programme on childbirth this eve. Not sure this is a great idea when I've got to do this in a few months, but I'm kinda excited to do it again. Seeing the joy on the parents faces when that baby is born had my tearing up a little. A tad bitter sweet as I remembered me and h and the loving moments as we were handed our son, so happy we were a proper little family now. But I'll still be excited to hold my next child, give he/she a kiss. That rush of love is immense, I get that same rush whenever I see my S, you truly do not understand love until you become a parent.

[Zanadoo]

I remember making him a cup of tea once and erupted that I put the milk in the cup first. It led to a violent rage and throwing the cup. He made a confident woman turn into a nervous wreck.

But ... But ... That's the "right" way to make a proper cuppa.

Cherry - I know I'm imposing on you but we have a new member Zanadoo to our little family. A young lady who used to be what she describes as a "firecracker" and now describes herself as a "mouse". I've suggested she come over here for a visit but if you don't mind doing a quick flyby you might make a great difference for a troubled and lost young lady who I think could use a friend other than the kindly grandfather type like me.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2705753&page=1

Yes - Zanadoo - I tend to meddle.

Thank you for meddling! Cherry has great things to say!

[Painter]

In a matter of a few months (maybe 2) I got with wh. And he was amazing and so caring, I felt protected from him. The thing is, my ex did a lot of damage to me, I was a broken woman, and I don't think I started to build myself back up until bd1 in 2015. So I think now, I'm fully trying to identify these issues within myself and build me back fully into the woman I was.

I find it interesting that several of us here seem to have met our spouses at a really low time in our lives, where we had little confidence and possibly just out of a bad R. Maybe we married rescuers who aren't comfortable with us finding our strength and confidence.

I know that WH wants someone 'small' - someone who doesn't have her own life or needs or purpose besides fulfilling his needs.

[Cherry]

Painter, I've been pondering this too. The 2 ow that have been involved during this time have both been much needier women, full of issues, needy, and both had daddy issues (dad walked out on them). They have also been manipulative but that's another story. Basically, they've been the polar opposite of me. I'm feisty, independent and I'm successful in my own right. They're the type that want men to constantly splash out. My papi raised me to be strong and have a career in my own right, and I've always thought that I would rather have nothing than have a man tell me that I only have *insert thing* because of him.

Maybe this is my problem!

[Surfer]

Strange. I certainly was not short on confidence at all. This happened when BD happened but I am getting back (I will have set backs - we all will, that's grief).

Perhaps they may be 'rescuers' IDK. Perhaps overthinking.

You will never understand. Stop trying, I think if you can let go (i.e. stop caring to some degree) of that fear of losing them (whilst still loving them), then I am sure you will find all the answers you need.

The Fan - De Niro wasn't too impressed with Wesley's view on this (below).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkKdZTPctU0

[Cherry]

Surfer, I think I have got rid of the fear of loosing him. I know now this is probably going to happen. Still things like this are quite curious. I'm certainly learning more about R's than I previously knew.

Today I've not quite been as sick which was a relief, so hauled myself into work. Did a few conference calls, and then hid in a quiet area to get some work done (if I'm in my office I get distracted, likewise if I take it home).

Only complaint is my sleep wasn't too great last night, takes forever to get comfy, then my bladder awakens me!

Been researching what new baby things I may need, found myself gushing at little sleep suits and booties! And bought a few pairs of maternity trousers so i can be a bit comfier! My mama keeps telling me I'm so lucky that maternity clothes are so stylish, she tells me tales of her smocks while pregnant with me and my siblings!

I didn't see h for his conversation yesterday, kind of let go of thinking about it. I've heard about the worst I could hear him say. I shall try (not too obviously) to avoid him for a little while!

[Coly23]

Hey Cherry, I'm very jealous that you have been looking at baby clothes!

I remember even 16 years ago that maternity wear wasn't very fashionable. I think Mothercare was the only place that sold decent priced maternity clothes and everywhere else was very expensive!

How has it been in the house? Has H found himself somewhere to live?

[Cherry]

Coly, they make me so broody it's unreal. I really love the newborn stage!

Yeah clothes wise there's a lot of options, most places now stock maternity. I was lucky with my first, tops/dresses I just bought a size up (my sisters hated me that my pregnant size was a size they dreamed of being). But treated myself jeans, skirts and stylish trousers for work, and a few flattering wrap tops.

He has pretty much kept his distance, or I've kept mine. Made sure I've been up and in bed by the time he comes home. He has actually stayed in a little more than usual in the evenings, of course this means nothing so I won't think of it. As far as I'm aware he hasn't, he doesn't seem to go out in his days off at suitable viewing times, like he only goes in the evenings, and no estate agent would be open then. This was going to be something I would bring up when he delivered the conversation he wanted but still hasn't happened, so I haven't approached him to discuss this. But when he does, I'll be sure to tell him I want him to leave. I don't want to go through the d process and enable him to live an easy life at home where everything is paid for.

[Coly23]

Yes me too Cherry, I love the new born stuff!

I remember when I found out was pregnant for D I had just been fitted for a bridesmaids dress for one of my older sister's weddings and I was too frightened to tell her has the style she chose wasn't very forgiving and I knew I would be around 17/18 weeks pregnant on the big day. Turned out okay as I was still able to fit into a size 8 dress!

I think you are doing great distancing yourself from him. Blue says that sort of thing sometimes makes them second guess themselves but as you say who knows what goes on in their heads!!

[Cherry]

Ooh that's good going, that's about where I'm up to now, I'm 17 weeks and still in my 8 stuff.

Distancing myself is more for my sanity and peace right now. I'm feeling a little hopeless about the situation at the moment. I'll be cordial when I do see him, but for now if I can avoid him without making it obvious that that's what I'm doing, I'll go for that. Feeling a little achey the past few days, when I last saw my midwife she quite innocently said "get your partner to give you a nice massage". I've had a nice bath and made my room into a cosy den instead. Lots of cushions to get comfy and some lovely scented candles. Keeping calm and chilled is up there on my list of importance. Been getting some braxton hicks contractions, the midwife thinks it's a bit early (though I'm sure I had them at this point with S) so they want me to keep an eye on the frequency. So keeping calm is absolutely the most important thing

[Phoebe]

Cherry, I think that you're on the right track just laying low for a while and avoiding any further spew. I can't see what he could possibly say in yet another R talk that would be worth your time to listen to. Listen to your midwife and avoid that stressor like the plague.

I'm very happy to see that you aren't going to cave into his ridiculous idea that you shouldn't get a L just because he has one that can do all the work for both of you! What a crock! That is never a good idea. You absolutely need someone knowledgeable involved in the process who is squarely in your corner.


((((((Cherry))))))

[Surfer]

Cherry, glad all seems to be going well on the pregnancy front.

It seems you are going through a calm period with H. This is good and hopefully you will both communicate better during this period.

I think yes the low profile is good, but the kind profile is that which will serve you best I think.

You don't have any work to do other than that. If H wants to view houses, D, move out, it's his roller coaster. You don't need to get on it so don't. My thoughts are that he will try to encourage you into his circus less now. I think he is seeing it isn't working.

So with lots of hard work done all seems much clearer for you I guess and you can be in a happy place.

If you look back to those times when you were so messed up in your head, you really have come a long way. Your S (and B) will be proud of you.

Surfer.

[Cherry]

Grr I wrote a big reply and my iPhone decided to crash and loose it!

Surfer, thank you. I do feel I'm in a stronger place than a few weeks, I hope the little ones would be proud of me! The calmness is absolute paramount to me right now, my health and therefore that of my baby is so important. And I agree, it's totally his journey, I've already told him I will play no part in breaking up the family, so I don't need to tell him this again. I also accept that it's all totally out of my control. So I'll control what's on my side.

Phoebe, thanks for popping by. I totally agree. He's already told me he's filed, and that he's moving. I don't see what else he needs to say, I'm not prepared to be the person he comes to point the finger of blamevat our spew at. I'm not making it look obvious, if I see him I'll be cordial and calm, but if I can avoid contact, I shall.
I also agree on the L front, in any situation, even the smartest person can allow emotions to cloud judgement. Plus I've enough on my plate than deal with a whole heap of paaperwork!

[PsySara]

You are sounding stronger by the day! I am so proud of you taking care of yourself and being the best mom possible to your little ones. Your husband is a fool and I want to come over there and smack him.

[Cherry]

I would quite welcome that! And after that we could sit and sip some tea! Thank you, my little ones and my health are of my upmost priority.

I had a question for you sara, when you gave birth I know your h was in full crisis mode, but was he there? Did he want to be? My h plans to be, but I also have a backup plan incase I don't want him there, or he doesn't want to be there.

[PsySara]

I struggled with the decision to let WH be there. I am going to be brutally honest, I wish I had barred him from the room. He sat across the room the entire time and mostly looked at his phone. He barely said anything to me and was quite distant and cold. It was embarrassing because the doctor and nurses were staring perplexed at him. It was like I was the cheater and giving birth to someone else's child. It was just bizarre. Instead of me being able to focus on childbirth (and my heart condition that the affair caused made the delivery very high risk) I was busy acting cheerful and chatty so they wouldn't think I was upset. And it was just that, an act. He was even worse to me after the birth, extremely cold and sometimes rude. I was postpartum and very emotionally vulnerable and this was when I became suicidal.

Looking back I wish I had flown in a relative to take care of me and sent back to his work state. Having him around while he was still in the fog was not good for me. He had said he wanted to be there but I should have forbid it.

[Coly23]

Gosh Cherry, that's going to be so hard if he wants to be there at the birth. I know its his baby too but I worry that he will spoil the whole experience for you by being sulky and unsuportive. Maybe your back up plan should be with you through the labouring bit and then he can sit outside and come in at the end just as baby is being born. That will mean you have proper support but he still gets to see his baby born....

[Coly23]

Aha! Sara posted just as I was typing! I fear your H might behave the same way...

[Surfer]

Get your 'back up plan' there. I would expect nothing though and have H as your backup plan. If he wants to behave normally - 'be there' - that's then a bonus for him, but don't expect that - you will be fine with your back up person. Just seeing this from a practical DB viewpoint. Zero expectations having read PsySaras experience (PsySara - I am so sorry this was not the beautiful, loving experience it should have been for you).

Surfer.

[Cherry]

Oh Sara, I'm so sorry you had to go through that in labour! That's absolutely awful, and at a time when you're so vulnerable and need someone. My last labour turned into an emergency, for both me and baby, and it was a long labour, and high risk so had to be monitored very closely. It's a hard one, my dear is he wouldn't even be contactable when I go into labour. I do like colys suggestion of having someone with me while in active labour (my last active labour was 18 hours!) and if he wants to be there, be there for the final stage. But yes surfer you're right I have zero expectations of him being there or being supportive.

Going to get myself up and at um. Got some GAL plans in for today for me and S , see a friend and then see some family. Feels a bit of an effort after a poor nights sleep and sickness, but I'm sure a little fresh air will make me feel a lot better. I haven't seen wh for a good few days, this is becoming the norm, and helps me to keep my chill a little better!

[Cherry]

He's back to his stint of ignoring me again. I shall leave him to it. His crisis, his problem. The only thing he did want to ask was where I was going. I don't read into this anymore but it does kinda astound me that they're always out on their own agenda, but feel the need to ask us where we are going and what are we doing!

Only prang I've had today was someone out wearing the same aftershave as wh. Was a quick stab in the heart that I shall let go of. I'll just add it to one of those firsts again and leave it be there. It's going to happen, I'm pretty sure that mr Armani does not make aftershave for wh only...

[Cherry]

Been given some insight as to what the conversation he wants to have is about, basically he has the papers and wants me to see them.. I'm not sure why or if I do.. but I will mentally prepare myself for this conversation. TBH I don't even know if emotions would get the better of me. I've known this is coming for a few weeks, I would in no way say I'm at peace with it, but I guess the fights gone out of me. I started determined thinking I could bust this d, but now he's found a place to live and he's filed, in just kinda "ok this is happening" and I'm working more on keeping myself together and getting stronger (which is effectively db and saving myself). Of course I'd love to save my m, but there'd be a lot of work, and the amount of hurt that he's caused me, I just don't see him ever coming back.

Despite this, when I did see him, I was upbeat and friendly enough, like a passing neighbour. He was asking how I was getting on in the pregnancy as he heard me being sick.. then he was the one wanting to continue to talk, but I said I had something to do an excused myself..

I'm kinda surprised myself I'm not a crying mess. I dunno if I'm numb and closing off my feelings, or if I am just at a stage of "why bother". He is treating me badly, and I'm not okay with that.

[Coly23]

Oh Cherry, he said he wanted to have a chat with you days ago. Is he just dragging it out for dramatic effect or not wanting to face up to what he his doing?

Has he definitely found himself a place now because if he has then maybe it's time for him to go. This must be mental torture for you, waiting for the 'talk'. Can't he just have the papers sent to your L to deal with. Why do you have to look at them? Sorry for so many questions!!!

((Cherry))

[Rose888]

((Cherry))

I have no idea if what I'm about to say is DB or not, but I would not let him in the labor and delivery room. For me, labor and delivery is about the mom. It becomes about the baby once the cord is cut.

I'd offer to call him when you get to the hospital. He can wait in a waiting area until the baby is born, and then he can hold the baby. He has lost the right to watch the birth.

Just my two cents.

[Cherry]

Coly, I have no idea, he keeps saying that the situation we are in makes him want to stay away from the home.. I felt like telling him that I highly doubt that will improve once he has gone, maybe that's just my opinion.

Yeah a months upfront rent is paid and the deposit. And I don't know, I've told him I don't want to have to deal with any of this, and it could just go through my L..

Rose, I know you're right. And this is something I keep flipping from. The first time was a complete different experience. I had a very long and traumatic labour, I was in total over 2 weeks (5 days as an in patient in slow labour, the rest complications from a nasty tear and infections after). He was amazing, and kept me calm. But this of course was when he was my loving husband and I could trust him with anything.. I'm starting to think that my friend and mama would be a better idea. I need someone who loves me in there just in case all goes wrong again. I guess I have it planned and people ready to be there. It is definitely one of the most intimate moments of a woman's life, and you are totally vulnerable. I don't want an experience like Sara had with a h sat in the corner texting, that will just put me more anxious and angry.

[SH_]

Yeah a months upfront rent is paid and the deposit. And I don't know, I've told him I don't want to have to deal with any of this, and it could just go through my L..

I agree with your approach on this.
Let the L handle these things. We don't need to intertwine with the day to day things that WAS now has to handle for themselves.

I have not spoken up of late, but I am impressed with how you are doing.
Keep up the great work and spirits and taking prompt action on things.
You are sounding stronger every day.

You and your family continue to be in my prayers.
(((((Cherry)))))

[Cherry]

Thanks SH, I'm trying. Must admit, I did just have a 2 minute weep, I was thinking about having the baby, and thought of the first time and it brought a tear to my eye. It was like seeing another man in my head, a man I haven't seen in a couple years, and I wanted him- not the man who is in his place today.

At least I guess I released a few emotions. And I shall let that be that.

Yeah exactly, I don't want to have to be involved in this, I told him from the start I do not want this so will not be a part of it. Showing me the papers before they are filed seems like I play a role in this. Plus why would he do this?! Why is it even worth showing me?! Questions I can't ask so will not ponder!

Prayers are always appreciated!

[SH_]

No shame in tears dear Cherry.
I have had them leaking out of my face for the past few days...
Not sure where they come from, but the drip out of my eye balls in some most inopportune times....

My heart breaks for you and the situation with the new little angel headed your way. It does sound as if you have some family and friends to be there. That is good.

I like that you are tossing the question out about him showing you the papers...
"Whatever!" I say to him and his ridiculous behavior. His Monkey, his circus tent.

You are a strong gal...
Strength comes form challenge...
You continue to step up..
Perseverance will see you through to wonderful times.

(((Cherry)))

[Cherry]

I dunno, I just kind of feel like it shows me I'm not quite as detached as I should be. Maybe I'm beating myself up, at least I'm dealing with my emotions, and the tears only lasted a couple mins and then I got in with my evening without paying much mind to the conversation.

Yes definitely throwing those questions away, I've learnt the hard way not to ponder their thoughts. Especially as they probably don't even know why they do things.

But thank you, I do have to give credit to everyone here for their support 2*4s, and the homework you gave me SH. Without being here I would be making a whole heap of mistakes and probably be in a rather dark place. Db has made me work on me, and helped me deal with things I've carried around for a long time

[SH_]

Without being here I would be making a whole heap of mistakes and probably be in a rather dark place. Db has made me work on me, and helped me deal with things I've carried around for a long time

AMEN my dear DB sister!!!
AMEN indeed.

(((((Cherry)))))

[Surfer]

Cherry,

Don't look at the papers. Do the usual with the talk, listen, validate etc. The papers are for your L. As SH says, his circus - he is doing this for attention/effect. I also wouldn't engage in conversation about him moving out. Just let him travel his own path and keep your side of the street clean.

In terms of the birth. This is something you must decide on. It's something you need to be very comfortable with. Perhaps having your Plan B there as your Plan A with your H in the room, IDK, I think if you ban him you may regret that. You may even want H in the room and Plan B outside? It would be ideal to think it could snap him out of his fog but from what I have read, in terms of other sitch's this may well not be the case.

You have plenty of time. Perhaps talk to your M and D and even MIL. Why not eventually talk to him?

Sorry, no definitive answers on this one. It's far too personal. You have plenty of time to talk to those that are closest. But suggest you get there quickly in your mind so it is not 'on repeat' in your head.

Surfer.

[Cherry]

Thanks surfer, you're right. Validate and let the L deal with the papers. And you're right about getting there in my mind. I guess the thing is I won't really know how I will feel closer to the time. There is no knowing how I will feel. It is an intimate moment, but I know that he wants to see the birth of his child, it's tricky.

I have my plan b ready to be my plan a. My mum will be ready to spring into action if needs be. My mum is a good soul, a wise thinker, and despite the hurt wh has caused (they thought of him like a son) she still thinking if things are okay between us that he should be there. I guess we shall see. With a wayward there's no predicting the behaviour. I still continue to tell him about upcoming scans (he told me he wants to be at those), I don't hold out any hope that he will be there- but I lay that out to him too and let him know it is his decision.

I shall continue to keep my side of the street clean. After all, this is the only thing I can control.

He claims he wants me to see the papers because he won't let the L file unless we are happy and agree with the reasons he has given. Feels like a bit of a temp check to me?

[T384]

Hey cherry,

Filing is filing right? You don't need to necessarily agree with any of it yet he can still carry on with the D. So best to not have any part in it. When he has the conversation I would not mention again this isn't what you want (he knows that) but I would simply say you've consulted a L and he/she is expecting the paperwork so just have his L contact yours and you will handle it from there.

Whatever's he's doing. Whether it be temp checking, baiting you, etc doesn't matter. He will do what he wants. Don't have any part in it. These conversations just seem to go round in circles with no outcome. He's made big boy decisions he can follow through on them. He really needs some type of new reality to set in before he can even begin to figure out where he's going. Step out of his way and let him do that.

Good luck!

[Cherry]

T, you're absolutely right. He does need to see the new reality he has set out for himself. I honestly don't hold any hope that even that would make him see the difference. I just don't hold any hope of us reconciling anymore, I just don't see it as what he wants. Still I'm no mind reader.

I think that shall be my stance, pass it on to my L. If he wants us to be civil towards each other for the sake of the children, I see it as very critical the L deals with this. Otherwise the anger and emotions could take over and damage any chance of that being the case.

[BluWave]

I dunno, I just kind of feel like it shows me I'm not quite as detached as I should be.

(((Cherry)))

Can we cross out "as I should be" and change that to "as I would like to be?" Please don't "should" yourself, sweet Cherry, this is so extremely hard and I don't want you to put anymore pressure on yourself. Shoulda woulda coulda :-) This all takes a loooonnnggg time. This is your H, your M, your family, your life! You are doing so well in the face of this crisis, you are learning to focus on you, and I believe many silver linings will come to surface over time. You will grow and get stronger, that I do know! Detachment only happens at it's own pace as you move through the motions, we cannot force it. I don't think there should be shoulds in love.

In terms of the L and his need to run it by you. Well I have no idea what is going on in his head, but it appears it is more of his attempt at blame or guilt shifting. He is acting like a coward and is not able to take full responsibility, so if he runs it by you, he has convinced himself that this is a courteous gesture. Also, if he runs it by you and later some issues arise, he is able to tell himself (or you), "but I ran it by her and she agreed." So do what feels right to you, but know that it is perfectly okay to tell him, "no thank you, you handle this as you need to with your L and I will do the same."

In terms of the birth, I would encourage you to come up with a birth plan with those you trust right now. This is one of the most important and vulnerable times in a woman's life, you may be highly emotional, and I care far more about you and your well being than if he is present or not. Unless you can say that it would not affect you if he was in the room (cold, distant, texting, etc) than please think about what you can do to prevent that. I think it is perfectly okay to spend time coming up with some ideal birth plans and then letting him know your boundaries and expectations of him. If he is not able to meet those needs, then you can let him know what he is able to do and not to do at that time. I think the more you can have a plan and other support in place, the more comfortable you will feel.

I am actually glad he has a place. I think when he leaves you can have some peace in your home. I don't like that he is there and comes/goes, and is having this A with your coworker. I hate to plant this seed in your head, but I think when you get to the point of where Sara is (and where I was getting with my H) and you put your and up and say "enough is enough!" then things may change. We see you getting stronger and moving on, but he sees and knows that he can come back at any moment. I think your H will really start to feel the consequences of his actions when he moves out.

Right now he is in lala land and it is not fair to you at all! I would love to see you kick his little arse to the curb and change the locks! No more disrespect for our Cherry, she deserves a man that loves and appreciates her!!!

-Blu

[Surfer]

Cherry,

You are right. You won't know how you feel but it might reassure you to speak to your Mum and agree that she will step in if needed and how that 'may' look on the day if you need that. That will put your mind at ease. Then put it to the back of your mind I suggest.

My W had L send a note saying we had to agree grounds. I said, I don't agree with the D and wanted to protect my M and my Kids and don't want to D. I said we were had not separated for 2 years so I said there were no grounds for now. She then moved out.

We are now where we are. No mediation or D and whilst its limbo I am not easing the burdon of my W's concience by joining in the process at all. I am just being kind. Joining in the process is often what they want as they don't want to appear responsible or be responsive for their own actions.

Just look at the papers if he asks you to and say you will need L advice as you don't fully understand this - which is true. This is why, perhaps, that he doesn't want separate L's he wants you to do what he says - join in the process - so the burdon eases.

His circus not yours. If he is adamant he will just serve in his own grounds and you can object to it if you need to.

Surfer.

[job]

Please start a new thread. Thanks!

[Cherry]

Link to new thread:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2706460#Post2706460