Roads Go Ever On

[Painter]

Last page of previous thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2687754&page=11

I'm going to repeat the last post because I don't have anything new to post.

I hope everyone is having some fun this weekend! It's a holiday weekend here in the US and I'm enjoying my time off. Even if I have bouts of sadness and WH and OW are frequently on my mind, they aren't able to ruin my day or mood. Yesterday, I went thrift store shopping and had lunch out with Son. I found a few pieces that are office appropriate for the fall, exactly what I was looking for.

I think it's so important to do things that are enjoyable, entertaining, intensely absorbing, or pampering, because if we only work and do chores, the sadness that we're dealing with has no counterbalance. GAL activities have many good effects, and one that I'm feeling these days, is that it gives me something to fight back with when darkness sets in. Yes, I can still cry in the evening after doing a fun activity followed by dinner and a great conversation with a good friend, but it's not *as* devastating for *as* long because my brain and body are also filled with positive stimuli and soothing chemicals. It's like they say about banishing darkness, the best way is to light a candle.

My current GAL activities are choir (just joined and started practice last week for the season), decorating Son's condo with some of my things, meeting friends for lunch or dinner, watching good, 'safe' movies, and going back to college part-time. I've been too tired to go to the studio and paint, but I need to get over there. It's just one of those activities I do better in groups or on a schedule.

I don't know if I consider it GAL, but there's a Divorce Care group that starts up again on September 28th, so I signed up for that. I already have the workbook but there were only a couple of meetings left when I found the local group back in May, so I never really got into it. And I see my IC weekly. She is a great support and helps me process the feelings that flow through.

I've been laughing for days at something WH said in our most recent conversation and I think everyone here will, too. I asked him what his plans were for proceeding with a D, and as usual, he had none (he says repeatedly that he's living day to day). I then let him know that if he were to go ahead and file for a no-fault D, my reply would be to request an at-fault D.

He blew up and told me he would lose his job if I did that (no, he wouldn't) because his employer is "really strict about stuff like that and consider it a flaw in character".

He was so angry he hung up on me - so I texted him later that once he calmed down, he might want to reflect on why they view it that way... and that he always has the option of moving OW out again.

[roist]

I love it. Anyway call a spade a spade! I probably would not have mentioned OW. It seems controlling. But still, good for you.

[Painter]

It was hilarious that he walked right into that one himself. Sometimes his anger makes him say truths he didn't mean to reveal.

I mentioned OW moving out as an option that is open to him because that would be the only way he could remove the grounds for an at-fault D. I wanted to make it clear to him that we both know he has a choice and is not a helpless victim. Actually, I thought it was very non-controlling by putting the ball completely in his court. It's interesting that you perceive it as controlling.

He usually acts as if things just happen to him, that he has no say in what goes on in his life and he's just a victim of circumstances. He could easily have pretended to not understand that he had the option of moving OW out of our home until the D was final. He just doesn't want to live the consequences of his choices, so he tries to pretend he doesn't have any.

I know that come court time, I will have to explain this to the stepkids as well. They will not see that he has the option to *not* engage in adultery to protect himself legally. It's supposed to be our job to insulate him from anything bad happening to him, regardless how he behaves. I'm probably the first person in his life to hold him responsible for his actions and it's making him furious.

[Cherry]

He really should have thought about that "flaw in character" when he decided to proceed with an affair. In the uk, if you file adultery and you can prove it- you can name and shame the AP and have them served too. In dark times, I remind myself of this little gem that if I show concrete proof I can name and shame her, have her served, and have her pay my legal fees.. I think it's only fair if you decide to intervene in a marriage, break up a family- consequences consequences!!

[DonH]

We teach people how to treat us. I so wish that everyone could learn that - which by the way I didn't create that great statement, I only follow it. When we allow people to get away with crazy it never stops. Sounds like your H has taught those in his life that it's never his fault or his choice. You are now teaching him differently. You are teaching him how to treat you. Will this get you closer to fixing the M? It may not but it sounds like you are deciding that you no longer want a crazy M anyway. You want a healthy one. He wants to continue he to get away with crazy. I think you are doing the complete right thing. He is not being controlled at all. He can follow the rules of your state or not. Controlling would be trying to get him to follow your rules. You just want him to follow written rules for D. That is totally his choice. It's best the kids learn this life lesson now.

You seem to be doing great! Keep at it.

[roist]

I meant he could perceive it that way. If Ow is gone you may not counterfile.Just how HE may interprete the OW statement. Don't worry about that too much. It is done and he will: interpret things his own way regardless.It was just an outsider view that could help in future.

Cherry. I think that is very fair, that OP is held partly responsable.

DonH, great words to live by. It expands slightly on the boundaries notions discussed on this forum. It does really apply to everyoneeven how we let our kids behave/treat us.

[Phoebe]

Hi painter! I'm really liking the tenor I hear on you latest postings. My own GALing is, as usual, kind of out of control, but I'm happy to see that you are out doing more for yourself these days. It's wonderful to see you put there, moving forward and seeing people.

[Phoebe]

And the way you answer or file for D should have absolutely nothing to do with WH, punishing/not punishing him, his opinions, or influencing his behavior. Period. It is a strategic decision that you need to make based on what will bring you the most favorable resolution for your long-term well-being and financial stability.

[Zues126]

Don, I agree that we teach people how to treat us...HOWEVER we never assume responsibility for other people's behavior either. Both are true, and while we can all do better to improve our boundaries and consider what type of behavior we are encouraging, none of us can control other people or do anything to prevent them from making destructive decisions.

I agree with Phoebe's point as far being strategic and laser focused on achieving the outcome you want. They say anger is like drinking poison hoping the other person dies or whatever. Expressing anger to WAH may only negatively impact your ability to reach a favorable settlement. You're well aware of that, we each have to deal with this in our own way. For me I can't allow myself to give XW the impression that she has that much control over my state of mind. I choose to look at her as an inanimate obstacle that I have to navigate around. I also create as much emotional distance as possible and stay very detached from her and her choices. I've been deeply wounded and don't pretend I'm not hurt or angry, I just don't choose to let those emotions steer my ship as I don't think they will lead me where I want to go. That said, again, I know you know all of this, and in light of where you are at and what's been done I am not judgmental here, you have some latitude to spew a little in the short term. In the long term I know you will find peace.

[focus22]

'I choose to look at her as an inanimate obstacle that I have to navigate around. I also create as much emotional distance as possible and stay very detached from her and her choices.'

Love this. The inanimate obstacle bit made me laugh

[DonH]

Zeus, it's certainly true that we are not responsible for others behavior as MWD talks about in her books how we act can very much influence (change) how a person acts. That's what Dr. Phil means by you teach people how to treat you. If a child throws a temporary tantrum to get what he wants and gets it, we just taught him how to treat us. Same goes her a H or a W. If a H throws a tantrum and doesn't get their way but instead gets shut down, we help them in the long run. The problem is far too many people get away with their crazy behavior which only emboldens them to continue it. This is all very proven. My last example would be its not a Ws fault if her H strikes her - the first time. It is much her fault if she allows it to happen again.

[Wonka]

Zeus, it's certainly true that we are not responsible for others behavior as MWD talks about in her books how we act can very much influence (change) how a person acts. That's what Dr. Phil means by you teach people how to treat you. If a child throws a temporary tantrum to get what he wants and gets it, we just taught him how to treat us. Same goes her a H or a W. If a H throws a tantrum and doesn't get their way but instead gets shut down, we help them in the long run. The problem is far too many people get away with their crazy behavior which only emboldens them to continue it. This is all very proven. My last example would be its not a Ws fault if her H strikes her - the first time. It is much her fault if she allows it to happen again.

Don,

I must speak up here for that statement ^^^ belies the awful truth about domestic violence and strays far into victim blaming territory. As a board member of a DV organization, I have learned that it's not as simple as what you've laid out here. Abuse occurs over time and starts out so subtly that many victims don't notice it at first and as time goes on, becomes caught up in a truly vicious cycle of rentless abuse at all levels which makes it VERY difficult for them to get out of a IPV (Intimate Partner Violence) situation.

I would caution you and others from getting into victim blaming mindset. We need to really move away from it and become their allies. Abuse is NEVER the victim's fault. NEVER.

[Painter]

Wonka, I agree. Abuse is slow and escalating and you get used it while it happens, like water slowly warming. It's sometimes difficult to recognize or label when you're in the middle of it.

Don, besides that, I agree with you. I think WH feels a certain degree of contempt towards me because I took him back after finding out about the A. He said when we married that he needed 'someone to keep him straight'. I told him I wanted a partner who could keep himself straight and I hoped he wouldn't put that on me.

I meant he could perceive it that way. If Ow is gone you may not counterfile.Just how HE may interprete the OW statement. Don't worry about that too much. It is done and he will: interpret things his own way regardless.It was just an outsider view that could help in future.

Roist, I see what you mean now. My statement was just meant to be a fact of the law - not that I wouldn't file at-fault if she moved out, but that I (at least I think) can't if she doesn't live there. But he may not have taken it that way, he may have interpreted it the way you describe. Thanks for pointing that out!

Cherry, I have sooo much evidence. And our state laws even considers it a misdemeanor that she's living there now. It's the same there, she'll be named and may be called in to make a statement.

You know a funny thing? He said early on that part of why he married me, was because he wanted a wife who could be a great role model for his daughter. And I took it as a compliment... I guess now when she's all grown up, he doesn't need me anymore.

Phoebe, I hope you're GAL'ing like crazy in a good way!
I'm experiencing an interesting indifference today. I can think about WH and OW and it doesn't really affect or hurt me at all. Probably won't last, but I'm enjoying it for now and realizing it means it's eventually going to be that way.

I said to my IC last week that I am getting a little tired and annoyed at how WH is dominating my thoughts, and she said that was a GREAT sign. I recognize the feeling from right before I stopped crying for 3 hours every night - I was getting bored and exasperated with it.

Had a lovely lunch with a newish friend today that ended up as a 4 hour conversation! It didn't feel that long. Her D was final in the spring, after a year - they share two young children, so she's quite a bit younger than me but we connect so well.

Zues, I actually wasn't the least bit angry or spewing - he was the angry and spewing one. It doesn't have to be a two-way argument with him, he can fly into a rage all by himself. I guess it sounds like we were arguing based on him reacting that way and hanging up on me, but the anger was all on his end. I trained myself years ago to be completely non-emotional with him to try to not escalate the daily rage.

[Zues126]

Zues, I actually wasn't the least bit angry or spewing - he was the angry and spewing one. It doesn't have to be a two-way argument with him, he can fly into a rage all by himself. I guess it sounds like we were arguing based on him reacting that way and hanging up on me, but the anger was all on his end. I trained myself years ago to be completely non-emotional with him to try to not escalate the daily rage.

My mistake. I was referring to the content not delivery, and I was projecting because I couldn't understand the motivation beyond sending this type of message if it wasn't originated in resentment of some type. I get that you're beyond wanting R with this man and I don't blame you, but I'm not sure that means what you do doesn't matter. It still impacts you, and you're who I care about. Take care of yourself P!

[DonH]

Abuse was not the best example of what I was trying to say. That's much more complicated. Just as I would not blame someone for having mental illness or the disease of addiction, on the other side, there is some responsibility for not treating either - still part of these things also prevent you from seeing what is or has happened. I very much understand that part of grooming when that happens makes it hard to stop. Yet others stop it in its tracks right away, even with the same person. Again this example was a bad one to make my point with as it's just too complex. Hopefully the other examples make sense as to why we teach people how to treat us. We really do. That's why we need to teach them to treat us well and treat us how we need. Tell me what you need and I'll try my best to deliver. Expect me to guess or just know and I'll likely fail.

[Painter]

Zues, I actually wasn't the least bit angry or spewing - he was the angry and spewing one. It doesn't have to be a two-way argument with him, he can fly into a rage all by himself. I guess it sounds like we were arguing based on him reacting that way and hanging up on me, but the anger was all on his end. I trained myself years ago to be completely non-emotional with him to try to not escalate the daily rage.

My mistake. I was referring to the content not delivery, and I was projecting because I couldn't understand the motivation beyond sending this type of message if it wasn't originated in resentment of some type. I get that you're beyond wanting R with this man and I don't blame you, but I'm not sure that means what you do doesn't matter. It still impacts you, and you're who I care about. Take care of yourself P!

It was the tail-end of a conversation where we had talked about some practical things, then I asked him if he had made a decision in regards to the D process. He has said pretty consistently that he is 'comfortable' being S, that he is in no hurry to file - but he has said a lot of things that turned out to be complete lies, for instance that he had NC with OW and had absolutely NO plans of moving her in...

So since he can file in a month, I asked again if he had planned to file. He said he didn't even know the time frame and is just living day to day (I think he plays more dumb than he is), but still in no rush to file. I then made him aware of what I will do if he files, purely so he would know what to expect and not be surprised by the response. I had no emotional motivation at all.

His response was extremely emotional, which wasn't unexpected. I'd rather he finds out now so he doesn't feel like he walked into a trap or that I was hiding this from him, because I know from experience he reacts badly to surprises. Hearing it from me is less of a shock (I've told him before that it's what I feel is right to do) than getting the papers served. Also, by talking to him, I can better judge his reaction and learn what he's thinking.

His anger doesn't touch me anymore, but I appreciate your concern.

[Zues126]

Got it. I think the part I wasn't understanding is why you would file an 'at fault' divorce if he didn't want to. I was under the impression that it made no difference but would be mostly symbolic or out of spite. If there is a legal benefit to you that is reasonable based on the situation then I can see where it might make sense to take it, and if so communicating that clearly is better than surprising him. Thanks for clearing it up, I knew I was missing something.

[Painter]

Oh Zues, I would have hoped you knew me better than that. I don't think I've ever done anything out of spite. With everything WH has done to me, I have tried to consistently take the high road and treat him fairly.

What you call 'symbolic' may be what I call 'principled'. I don't know if I will ask to have anything changed from our property settlement agreement (although my new L seems to think I should), for me it's about making it clear that this D wasn't my choice. I told WH when we M that 'I marry once, and I marry for life, so please don't do this if you think that D will be an option down the road'. He was in complete agreement.

[Zues126]

Well, you're going through an awful lot P. If Mother Teresa went through the three years you've been through it wouldn't surprise me if she slashed OW's tires and put up a billboard denouncing the two of them right outside the exit to his office.

D stinks. The loss of a family is irreplaceable. We can busy ourselves with other people, social media, iphone games, and lord knows what else, but once the decision is made that you can simply walk away from your commitments and family and etcha-sketch start over, you no longer will ever have a real committed relationship again, you will just have the flavor of the day that you use to distract yourself from the emptiness. But that's just me being cheery again. I guess that's the new normal. So you know me. I'm all about voicing our views, we may not be able to change the world, but we get to cast our vote.

[Painter]

I dream of it. I have thought about putting OW's picture on my Facebook page and get the word out in the 35,000 population community they live in (and I know a LOT of people there, including lots of business owners) that married women should not let her near their husbands.

But my best revenge is living well - meaning, I know WH would like nothing more than getting me down to his level so he can point at me and say I'm no better than him. The cleaner I am, the dirtier he looks.

I hope to see you in a better place in a few years, Zues. It's both the terrible and the wonderful thing about the future, that we know nothing about it.

[Cherry]

Ooh could you imagine. I often see these posts online of a scorned partner, and I kinda wish in a way I could do that, these people have balls about them. I feel like getting it put all over the screens in my workplace, maybe as he default on the homepage. Thing is although we would get the anger out, there is no way it would ever serve useful (plus the office gossips are already onto them, and although I think good- it's getting to them, it's also getting to me. Lots of sympathetic looks to the knocked up wife who's h is leaving her and having an affair).

I like what you say about living well is your best revenge. Another bit of gold from you that I can take away. You are so right, we could drag ourselves down to their level, but why do that?!

The thought of the future terrifies me personally. I do not fall for people easily, and I have young children, in a few months, a newborn- I won't really be in any kind of social setting. Maybe this fear is what keeps me clinging to my m?! I liked being part of a marriage, only maybe 2 months ago, me and wh would sit in bed laughing, watching movies and putting on a facepack. It's crazy how you can go from that to pure hatrid where he comes nowhere near me for days.

[Coly23]

On the subject of the scorned partner posting on line. When my H left the first thing H's friend's wife said to me was I don't think you should put anything on FB! I was so offended as I hardly post anything on there in the first place but for her to think I would want to air my dirty laundry on a public forum! That was the last thing on my mind!


Yes fear of the future is what I think is holding me back to...

[Painter]

I think my fear of the future has diminished as I realize that the most painful, horrid thing has already happened and I've lived through it and survived. There's not much more to be afraid of.

Just wanted to share that I had a wonderful weekend. I spent most of Saturday with a new friend (a fairly recently divorced woman), then got some work that had been hanging over me out of the way. Sunday was the start of choir season and it was a very festive service. This is at my new church here, very similar to the one I used to go to back home.

After church, I went to my studio (finally made time for it) and spent 3 hours painting. I was very happy with what I did, too! I picked up lunch at a local cafe within walking distance and had a completely random, very interesting conversation with a philosophy student who was also waiting for his food.

In the afternoon, Son and I took the dog to a big dog park for a walk. The weather was absolutely perfect. It was just one of those days where I was completely aware and present the entire day of what a great time I was having.

And I also had brief thoughts that WH would not have wanted to share any of these activities with me, or appreciated them. I don't think we have to always share all activites with our partner to make a R work, but I think not sharing any can be very detrimental over time.

The anger and sadness is there, but more muted and I forget about it more frequently. I see a lot of the aftermath of divorces in my temp job right now, so that's a trigger and I can tell I'm angrier today.

So just a share that it is possible to have wonderful days only 5 months after 2 years of bombing that ended with a nuke!

[Phoebe]

Painter, you sound like you are making a lot of progress when I read your posts. I love seeing that you got some time in your studio space and did some painting! That's wonderful. Plus, you're meeting people, getting out and doing things, and shedding your fears! You are absolutely right. The worst has already happened, and you're still standing and moving forward. You have discovered that you are strong.

((((((Painter))))))

[Phoebe]

Just stopping by Miss Painter's place to say hello, but you seem to be out and about lately. I hope that means that things are going well for you, lovely. ; )

(((((Painter)))))

[Painter]

I'm back home from a weekend work meeting a couple of hours' drive away. People came from all over the country but I only needed to stay for part of it. It was much nicer and more fun than I thought it would be, and my drive went really well. I have had pretty severe anxiety for the majority of my life, but for some reason I have none these days.

While driving home, I started thinking about the craziness of it all (WH and his behavior) but as on cue, a friend texted and asked if I wanted to go to a festival tomorrow. Perfect timing!

I'm doing well these days. I would like to feel like this going forward - making a wish!

[SH_]

Good to hear things are moving in a forward manner for you Painter.
Enjoy the festival.

[Phoebe]

Hello, beautiful Miss Painter!!!

It is very interesting that you pointed out that you are no longer experiencing anxiety these days. I've not been a terribly anxious person of my life, but it was horrible while WH ws still fence-sitting/cake eating, because my days were filled with uncertainly. Now that the worst has happened, I know that WH is no longer a part of my future, and that has eased a lot of my anxieties.

I wonder if knowing that your own WH is not going to be a part of your life has helped remove your anxiety for he same reason. You are no longer left to wonder.

Sleep well, lovely lady.

(((((Painter)))))

[J5K]

So glad to hear that your anxiety is no longer present. It is nice to hear your days are much better.

[Phoebe]

Painter, how the heck are you doing??? I miss seeing you here! Don't make me worry about you, ladybird!

(((((Painter)))))

[Painter]

(((((Phoebe))))), no reason to worry. Things are very calm and stable. I work my 2 (sometimes 3!) parttime jobs, go to choir practice, try to catch up with everything else in my life (socializing, taking care of the pets, exploring new job opportunies, signing up for college, and painting).

I have promised to contribute two paintings to a gallery night in October at my studio collective. I have one ready and another just needs a couple of hours' work, so it won't be stressful.

Every week, I see my IC. Divorce Care group starts in the end of September. I'm feeling pretty good (perhaps due to some of my socializing).

[Phoebe]

I am so glad to hear this, Painter.

Calm and stable = gold these days. Maybe I should sign up for a local Divorce Care group. Back when I was so desperate for support, I couldn't find a group, but now that they are starting up again, I'm not sure that I am at a point where it will help me any more.

Shrug.

(((((Painter)))))

[SH_]

I have been thinking about a divorce care group.
You will have to let me know your thoughts on your experience.

It is good to see you in a calm place Painter.

What kind of paintings do you do?
That sounds very cool having them in galleries and all.

[bigybiz]

Sorry to hijack.

I attended Divorce Care. I found the material very basic and a little condescending. I really liked the people and continue to pray for them everyday.

I will share one more thought. Some other research I did (from a Christian perspective) suggested that all divorce support groups should not be mixed genders. I know that for most churches that would be impractical - but it's worth thinking about.

I know my group got hung up a little on gender issues.

Food for thought

Bigy.

[Painter]

SH, I paint in oil - figurative, landscapes and figures. I've only painted for a few years but it is such a wonderful experience that I got hooked right away. When you paint, you can't think of anything else, so it's a mindful meditation where you focus on what you do instead of on your breath.

I went to one DC meeting in the spring, but they just ended when I found them in May. I got the book and looked at it, figured I will go through it to take what I can from it and meet other people in the same situation.

I wish it wasn't so exclusively Christian, but more inclusive of people of other faiths or no faith.

[bigybiz]

Are there similar programs (to Divorce care) in your area that are not Faith based? You would think that the demand for a secular version would be high. I know that not all of the people in my Divorce care group were not necessarily believers. I don't think they got any more or less out of it.

Maybe you could start your own?

[Phoebe]

I've looked for a more secular alternative to DivorceCare and not had much luck, bigybiz, at least not locally in my neck of the woods. I would also very much welcome an alternative.

The only other thing that I have attended is a local meetUp group linked to the Beyond Affairs Network. IT's not really the same at all, but at least it's a few people with something in common. Unfortunately, the local group has only met three times since May, so it's not been an awful lot of help... And the most we've ever had was 6 people, the other meetings had only 3, so sparse about covers it.

Painter, I like hearing about your painting. More, please?

(((((Painter)))))

[Painter]

I haven't found any other DC programs here. It's not as intense in the meetings as it in the book, and I didn't experience any attempts to recruit me to their church when I was there.

Phoebe, if you are looking for a creative outlet to take your mind off your worries for a while, drawing and painting has been wonderful for me. It requires you to look and observe more intensely than you've ever done before, and stay quiet and concentrated, in order to depict what you see. It's also a fun process to become familiar with the materials - working hard at playing. Proper materials are important to get good results - although I've seen a wonderful painting where the artist used sticks instead of brushes (it was a bet).

It's the creative process just as much as the result that is so rewarding. And the supportive environment; wonderful people who share freely.

I focus on landscapes and more recently, portraits. Sometimes I do stuff that I'm surprised over myself. I guess I'm starting to get a little skill.

[Phoebe]

I've always wished that I had taken some kind of art classes over time. The last one I had was in 8th grade, and I always kind of thought that I'd get a chance to take a class in drawing or something when I was in college. Well, no such luck on that front. My schooling offered zero opportunity for a relaxed introduction to art. It was either full on studio or nothing. So... nothing, because I wasn't able to devote that kind of time to any novice ambitions I might have had.

Many times since, however, I have wished that I could take a drawing class. Maybe when things settle down a bit for me in the legal department I will start looking into some kind of classes. Maybe drawing, but at this point I'd be satisfied with even a quilting class... something to get me working with my hands on a non-hammer/non-saw level again. (Not that I don't thoroughly enjoy that kind of hand work, too, ut I also like things I can do indoors on a winer evening!)

I used to love embroidery, but I haven't done any in ages. I have been known to sew and quilt, appliqué, knit and stamp. All those have fallen by the wayside in favor of building my social network, animal care responsibilities, exercising and spending time outdoors. And I'm still not even working yet! It's like there aren't enough hours in the day any more to care for myself in all the myriad ways that I need to do so.

Eventually I know that everything will get sorted out. Until then, I should look into what's available.

Thank you for sharing, Painter.

[Painter]

Phoebe, go for it! There's no investment to speak of for a drawing class, and you'll find out if you love it or not. And the skills will help you with any other creative activity.

A little update on me:

I'm very busy with many things, so much that I get too tired and overwhelmed at times. I have some health issues that are sensitive to overdoing it, so I have to be a little careful.

I have several part-time jobs, and I may have to let one go. I'm working on deciding on what to follow up on and what to let go. Unfortunately, the one I would like to do the most is the one I have least business from...

I go to Divorce Care and IC weekly. The first DC meeting was nice. I felt others in the class were much more raw than me, but I got some really helpful points from the video we watched.

They talked about how uncertainty causes a lot of the stress we feel, and that even if the M was unhealthy, it was predictably unhealthy so it still felt secure.

Also, when we question ourselves how we can still love someone who treated us so poorly, remember that years of love doesn't just go away. It's like when a child misbehaves, you don't stop loving them.

It was also mentioned that 80% of our energy is spent on dealing with emotional upheaval, so to be understanding with ourselves when we are tired and don't function well, for instance at work.

When I told my story (round table introduction in the beginning), I had very few feelings except some embarassment over being affiliated with the soap opera that WH has created. It was like talking about childbirth, I know it hurt, but I couldn't really feel the pain anymore, and I didn't get moved or upset or tearful when I talked about it. I actually had a visual of a healed scar while I spoke. It was very helpful to experience, it gave me a sense of where I am, at least right now.

I have had very little contact with WH lately. I am not good at keeping it light and friendly (DB dunce), we only communicate about practicalities but I often end up saying something sniping about what he has done to me and he stops replying. It's really amazing (another poster talked about this) how a person can behave horribly towards you, and then turn around and act like you're the crazy, emotionally out of control-person when you react.

Right now, I don't want to talk to him. I am mainly angry at him and I don't want him back. I have love for him, but I despise so much what he's done. He has turned out to be such a liar and cheater with no regard for anyone else's feelings, and I have discovered that it's a pattern he has followed from when he was a teenager. He has also clearly moved on, and I'm in the process of doing the same (no details for many reasons). Life is interesting...

He can file for a D this month. I'm not going to do anything.

Creative, rewarding activities that I need in order to balance my life are choir and painting. I would like to have more time for painting, choir is scheduled so it's easier.

Oh, and I just visited an amazing, enormous gym that's within walking distance, and got a week's free trial with them. They have a pool, resistance lap pool and a hot tub! The winters here are cold so I suspect I'll join just for that.

I'm not a success DB story in that I got my M back. But I used many of the tools to great success for myself. My IC talks about how good I am at processing the feelings, how I move forward with confidence, and I feel it, too. I know I have done everything I could while I felt there was still hope for reconciliation, and I'm also able to let go now when I don't feel there's hope anymore.

And I've learned so much about what I need in a partner, what I have to offer, and what I want my future R to look like. I feel much more confident and secure in myself than I did a few months ago. So if nothing else, take from it that there is a future that can feel very, very different in a good way.

[Phoebe]

It sounds like I would have benefitted from the DC meetings, but, yet again, I'm late to the party. I'd love it if you continued to share some of what you are learning/hearing each week.

I did enroll myself in a class, but one that I hadn't even considered until I saw an announcement for it last week. It's less a class than a discussion group, but the topic is Caring for Your Own Piece of the Earth. It's a group learning format where we learn about caring for our land (in this case it's about our yards, not large tracts of land) in a more holistic manner that benefits both humans and wildlife. I've only been to the first of 5 meetings, but I really enjoyed it. It's also really nice to spend time with some like-minded gardeners, as opposed to my neighbors who happens to think that sprinkling Sevin dust on his cucumbers is a good answer to a few bugs. Yummy..

I'm glad to read your update.

[Painter]

Phoebe, you can join the DC meetings anytime - it doesn't matter if they've started up.

[Painter]

A while ago, I had a little bout of posting sayings that I came across - they were statements from support groups or things I thought of in my processing of the breakdown of my marriage. Some members here really liked them, so I'm sharing one that has stuck in my mind for the last two weeks:

The choices I make today, shapes my character tomorrow.

Looking back at the choices I have made and the choices WH has made, this is so true. I wish he had made better choices, and I'm happy that Divorce Busting helped me make the best choices I could in that situation.

[Painter]

Not much going on with me. I took on a little too much and had to calm my schedule down.

My temp job is over, so that freed up a lot of time. I'm staying socially busy, which is nice. I've met someone who is currently just a friend, but it may become something down the road. We're just taking it very slow to make sure it's a real thing before we decide to move forward. It could take months.

I went to divorce care group yesterday and can tell that I've come so far in recent months, especially when I see where the other group members are at.

Another thought that has stayed with me lately: The grass is greener where you water and nurture it.

I may not post much here going forward. I don't really belong in this category anymore, so I probably will come back in another forum once the D gets started - which could be a long time.

[Painter]

Just a little update.

I will move to the Surviving the Divorce forum, although I am not legally divorced at this time. It feels very much like I am emotionally.

The earliest either of us could file, was in mid-October. STBXH has not filed. I am pretty sure he is using me as protection against having to marry OW, as she wants him to and he doesn't want to at this point.

I'm not filing partly out of principle, partly out of convenience (it is a significant financial benefit for me to stay M). Also, I need time to recover. I just can't take on the stress of a D process right now. I'm very, very happy with my life as it is and I don't want to get dragged back into that world until I have to.

Due to potential legal ramifications, I can't say a whole lot about what's going on in my life outside my usual activites, except that it has taken a very unexpected but happy direction. I am in a much better place than I was during most of my M, with a level of equal and respectful interaction, exploration and understanding, connection, challenge, and healing that I didn't think was possible. I didn't plan for it, but I'm not going to turn down a connection that seems rare and precious.

I hope this can be an encouraging post for those who are losing hope about their M. There is life after the death of the M, and it can be much better. You can take what you learned about yourself and relationships and put it to use to create a better future.

See you at the bottom of the list...

[Phoebe]

Hi Painter!!! I'm glad to see that you have found yourself at a better place with regards to your M. As long as things as stable and calm, I can't see any reason to rush into the D process. Believe me. It's a highly over-rated experience. I would have much rather stayed in my semi-limbo no-contact bubble than this seemingly-unending legal process. Yuck.

Eventually I'll be moving my own story into the surviving thread, too, but I'm barely into this D thing yet, and there are miles to go before I sleep, as they say.

Meanwhile, I just wanted to say hello and to send you my best. Thank you for checking in on me!

((((((((((Painter))))))))))

[Phoebe]

Just stopping by to say hello again, Painter. I hope that you are well. Hugs!!!