W: "Why are you asking like you Dont know what I'm talking about? Yes. Didn't you say that was what you need?"
She's still aggressive in her responses. I've told her throughout this thing that the only way we could resets lush our M would be if we did MC. Without that we may as well keep down the path we are going down. I'm unwilling to go back to the M we had been in.
That said, I'm not sure why the sudden pivot on her part. Caught me off balance and was completely unexpected. 3 days ago she was telling me there's 0% chance she'd be married to me on her 40th bday.
Very odd and has my hairs standing up
Me39 M11 : T13 D9 BD 5/31/16 In House S until 6/21/17 Divorced 10/5/18
Whoa -- that's a development, for sure. Just not sure what it means. It doesn't read like a WW having second thoughts and wanting to go to MC to try to build a new relationship. Might be some need to check the box and be able to tell herself and D that she "tried".
Still, it has to be so tantalizing to take her up on it. I'd be doing cartwheels if my W mentioned MC.
Maybe tell her, yes, "I need" MC, but only as a truly mutual tool the two of you would use to try to rebuild your relationship? Who knows. Hopefully a vet weighs in. Hang in there, Man -- the rollercoaster never stops in your world!
Me: 46 W: 44 Married: 17 Together 21 D13; S10 BD: 03.03.15 (Not attracted to you) Almost 2 years trying, alone, to save marriage Status now: Divorced (effective 06.13.17)
Looks like you are making good progress, and your attitude seems much stronger.
Good discussion on the difference between control and boundaries. Nothing riles up a WW more than them thinking you are trying to control them.
As for MC, I wouldnt bother. As long as she is having an affair, it will just blow up in your face. My guess is that this is her way to say 'i offered to do counseling' or 'he refused to do counseling'. What you can do is find someone who specializes in divorce or mediation and meet to discuss separation issues. But dont expect to have any sort of productive relationship discussion when she still wants out.
You said your WW's idea of custody is to have D every night. You do know that custody rights, and child support are based on overnights, not total time. You let her have every night, and you are potentially signing away your D forever. I strongly, strongly advise you to accept nothing less than 50-50 joint. Week on, week off. I would move as fast as you can to get a custody and finance agreements in place. At some point she is going to find herself out of money, losing her home and needing to get a job, and her BF isnt going to lift a finger to help. You want to get agreements in place before these things happen.
It seems like my brain is still wrapped around how to respond and defend from her, as opposed to how I set my own personal boundary, regardless of who it is violating it.
I read someone write (and Im paraphrasing horribly) that these discussions are like a H and W holding up some cube between them - if the W pushes one way and the H replies pushing the other way, the cube will stay up. But if one person pushes and the other backs away, then the cube will just fall. So in some ways, I think you should consider that...you dont need to "stand up" to everything...where can you let the cube fall?
Originally Posted By: lt0402
The onslaught makes me fairly defensive
On the bolded part, I know it was too much response. She's kind of hinted that I'm spying on her for a little bit now. I really wanted to get across the last 2 sentences of the message, but felt I had to put to rest what she's been implying w/ the rest. Too firm of an approach on the above, or I should have solely explained why I had that program on the pc?
In my opinion, everything you bolded was incredibly defensive, and I think, unnecessarily so. If she thought that you were spying on her, do you think the bolded changed her mind (I'd guess not)? If not, then its wasted breath.
And the last two sentences, while true, are lost in this message. She asked about a program for spying on phones and you responded with "you made your choices, blah blah blah." The words lose their meaning if you dont time them right. One of the most important things I took from DR was to learn about how to time things so that you can get a positive response. Do you think that this was an effective discussion of those points?
Hey all, been focused on this most of yesterday afternoon and today. Apologize for the lack of responses.
Cheesyt, yep, it was out of left field to me as well. It's the option I've offered to her as my preferred one were we to work towards reconciliation. Her wanting to work through MC was not expected by me right now, so I find myself questioning why she's willing to do it. I'm hoping it's for good reasons, but approaching this cautiously.
JR, that's what I'm afraid of. That it's either her lining this up to say that she tried, or it's her L pushing her to check the box. I want to believe she's willing to work on our MR in earnest, but w/ everything that's happened the past few months I'm having a tough time getting fully behind that.
I've responded back to her saying that I'd like to discuss the marriage counseling this evening and then i'll make the appointment. I want to express to her that it's going to be hard work and I only want to go down this path if we're both committed to putting in the work. I also want to tell her that if we do this, the goal is for both of us to truly be happy and not to get stuck in the same spot we were in previously. If she understands and accepts that, then I'm willing to give MC a shot with her.
Fade, I feel stronger, but still not fully where I want to be yet. I'm worried about the reasons for her wanting to do this as well and am hoping to get a better read on it when I discuss with her tonight. I don't want her "riding this out" for the sake of our D as I don't think that's healthy for anyone and will leave us all unhappy.
To be honest, I have no idea if she's still talking to OM or not right now. I stopped the snooping after her last trip out of state to see OM in early Aug. I'm not sure how to balance the potential that's still going on w/ attempting to do MC.
Ws idea of custody is that she'd have D every night except every other weekend. Definitely not on board with that. My last conversation with her, I'd discussed that my view was D would do closer to 50/50 w/ her time for overnights. I was just about ready to retain my own L to respond to her structuring a S agreement when she offered MC.
Darknes, I see what you're saying on the cube. I'm fairly sensitive to any confrontation currently, when i should probably be letting the smaller ones roll off. perfect example of pick your battles.
On the bolded stuff, you're right. None of that would have changed her mind. Taking a step back w/ a cooler head probably would have helped and the response would have been shorter and more to the point.
It was definitely not an effective time to toss those points out there. It was probably a stretch, looking for an opportunity to reiterate comments from our Saturday conversation. Out of context completely. Still need some work on my DR skills, but I am extremely appreciative of your challenging me on these. Seeing where I've got some big deficiencies that i never would have seen myself! Still have a lot of work to do!
On this whole situation, I figured it was important enough to get the advice of my IC. We talked through my concerns that this may not be real, or there may be an ulterior motive. IC thought the conversation from Saturday may have sparked something in the W which may have led to this. IC also highlighted it's possible it's something completely unrelated too.
Regardless, we both agreed it's worthwhile for me to have a quick discussion w/ W of what MC means for me. If she's onboard w/ that then we take it one session at a time. IC warned me not to go into this with too much caution as it could cause that spark to go away. We talked about how if this is real, there's still extremely hard work to do. I still am finding it difficult to accept the sudden change, but I'm willing to give it a try.
I've gotten a couple messages from my W since the one confirming she was talking about MC. Both were around my D and asking if I could give both W and D a little more space this weekend by getting out of the house more. It's the first time W has asked for space since maybe July or so. Unsure this contradicts the MC conversation above, or if it's just W trying to honestly relay what she needs. Somewhat confusing, but i'll try to give them more space and see what happens. One GAL activity w/ H who is getting S (D's best friends dad) on Friday evening. Will get another GAL on the calendar for Sunday probably.
Am I being too trusting and naïve? I'm torn bc of Ws lies around the OM situation. IC says it fully possible for someone to be completely honest about everything, but then lie their butt off around an A. Is the possible reward worth the risk that I'm taking here?
I've gotten a MC session setup for Sep 26 (earliest i could get) w/ a counselor that my IC highly recommended. I'll tell my W after we discuss face to face tonight and i get some clarity (maybe) around her level of effort on this.
Thanks all, as always your support has carried me through this thing. This is probably the most confused i think I've been in this whole thing. It's hopeful, frustrating, maddening, and scary all at the same time. I guess i'll take this side path and see if it leads to another one, or i end up right back on the path i was travelling again.
Cheesyt, you are correct, never a dull moment here!
Me39 M11 : T13 D9 BD 5/31/16 In House S until 6/21/17 Divorced 10/5/18
I want to express to her that it's going to be hard work and I only want to go down this path if we're both committed to putting in the work. I also want to tell her that if we do this, the goal is for both of us to truly be happy and not to get stuck in the same spot we were in previously. If she understands and accepts that, then I'm willing to give MC a shot with her.
Regardless, we both agreed it's worthwhile for me to have a quick discussion w/ W of what MC means for me.
Just my opinion.
But I think rather than saying what it means to you, you should ask what it means to HER. Then see if that matches your intention.
Im pretty sure if you list all of that, shes going to tell you not to bother before you have any actual discussion.
darknes, good idea. may lead to some overload on her part.
I usually try to have these conversations face to face, but i wonder if it's better for me to ask her via text to let her think about it before we talk.
still confused by the whole thing. i asked the MC to let me know if there was a cancellation we could take sooner as I'd like to get the ball rolling on this.
Unsure how to act towards her in the meantime. It seems like it's a slightly softer version of how i have been acting.
Me39 M11 : T13 D9 BD 5/31/16 In House S until 6/21/17 Divorced 10/5/18
Ok, so just had a quick dialogue w/ W and asked her what she's hoping to get out of the MC. She put it back on me and said isn't this what you said we needed, what are you hoping to get out of it.
I told her its to work through our issues and fix our M. She said ok, make the appointment. Unsure how to take that. A little on the aggravated side on her end. I didn't push further bc of the aggravation.
Still wary that this is for real. That conversation didn't help it. IC says the MC he recommended is very direct and will call out bs. Think that's a good fit for us as we both probably need a swift kick in the a$$. I'm just not sure if W will put effort into this.
W was much better in front of D and me tonight. We all joked around and talked to each other. No disrespect coming from W which was the first time in a while. That conversation though seems to show she's still heavily conflicted.
Wish the first MC session was next week and not the 26th. If history is any guide, a lot will happen over the next 3 weeks. I'll address with IC next Tuesday to get his thoughts on managing this until then.
If W is trying to confuse the sh$t out of me it's working. I felt like I had a good compass on this thing as recently as Tuesday morning, but now I feel like I'm in limbo. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best I guess. Maybe it's stupidity to hope this is something real. The odds probably lean towards this not working out favorably.
Had fun with D tonight making cardboard ninja stars and playing ninja. Got in some gym time this am and after work. More present at work as of late which is good, but still a heavy focus on all this.
We will see where this path leads. Worst case I end up right back where I was before. Hopefully how can be leveraged into something to build from though.
Me39 M11 : T13 D9 BD 5/31/16 In House S until 6/21/17 Divorced 10/5/18
My W suggested we go to MC right after I found out about her EA...we went twice and then we both went individually. When I found out that she was still having the EA I said it didn't do any good to go if she was still having the A. I read somewhere that they suggest MC to seem like the tried to "WORK" on the M. I hope that isn't the case for you though, yep prepare for worst and hope for best!
W:42 M:48 T:9 yrs M:1yr BD: Feb 2016 EA Confirmed: Feb 2016/PA July 2016 D: Feb 2017
wow! it's like my roommate always tells me, I wish I could fast forward and know the outcome already.
stay calm and level headed! approach with caution!!! I have a feeling any little mishap will send your W off the deep end and make her regret the decision (cus that's what my W would do, and they sound very similar)
