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#2701976 09/04/16 06:26 PM
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lt0402 Offline OP
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Previous thread:

A WW? (3)

Quick rundown of my situation:
- M11, T13 w/ a D9
- BD on 5/31/16
- Find out about EA with OM on 6/22/16. Had been ongoing since 5/13/16
- Confront W on 6/30/16 about her plans to visit OM over 4th of July weekend
- W goes anyway on 7/3/16 for PA and I leave MBR that night
- W comes back and we have talk on 7/7 about Ls
- W retains L early August
- I have met with 2 Ls so far and another in 2 days
- "Family" beach trip for a week Aug 6, multiple MR talks
- W leaves for an anniversary party for friends. Turns out it's for another PA with OM at the same lake
- confront W on it and she lies, lies, lies. I move back into Mbr
- W begins doing and saying odd things after blowup. Mentions possibility of cancer and writes a long letter blaming me for all our issues
- W and I sit down and chat custody of D. A lot of spew and W wants to push ahead with Ls

Seeing W for her lies and deceit of the past 3 months. I've set a goal for myself to not react to Ws behavior as she appears to be trying to trap me into confrontation. I've made it clear to her that she can't leave our home and take D with her. Also, I've told her that I think her choice on divorce is horrible and I won't proactively help her push it. I will however, not keep her from leaving if she pushes things that way herself. Not willing for my D to be exposed solely to W a majority of the time.

For me though, with the help of a multitude of folks on here, I'm working through building my relationship with D9 to be stronger. I'm also re-tooling myself to be more like the man I was pre M. Standing up for myself and D in the face of some controlling behavior from W and refusing to be a doormat. A lot of GAL and some 180s but all for the sake of D and me.


Me39
M11 : T13
D9
BD 5/31/16
In House S until 6/21/17
Divorced 10/5/18
lt0402 #2701978 09/04/16 07:05 PM
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Ok, another thread. Wheeeee.....

So, hit the gym this evening while W took D and friend to dinner for their sleepover. Came back and cooked my dinner of teriyaki salmon and rice. It was absolutely delicious.

However, W and D thought it smelled horrendous. They mention that as they leave to get ice cream. (I swear we are not a super unhealthy family!). I clean up pretty thoroughly and then eat.

I felt bad bc I laughed when D and W were complaining about the smell. I send W a message:

Me: I didn't realize the smell as bad. Could you please tell her I didn't mean to laugh when she complained about it. I'd assumed she was being silly.

W: it's probably more sincere if you tell her yourself when she gets home. Next time can you please use the grill.

They get home and I tell D I didn't mean to laugh when she brought up the smell. W instantly starts to break in saying "what did you expect to happen..." I ignore her and tell D I'm sorry I laughed and I had thought she was just being silly.

D and friend go upstairs to play and W starts ripping the grill of the stove and cleaning the counters, stove, floor, etc. it's possible that I missed something, but not to the degree she's acting. I go over and tell her if there's that large of a mess left I'm happy to clean it up. She looks at me with daggers and says she's already almost done and how could I not know this would make such a huge mess. I leave her to it.

She then goes into the laundry room and shuts the door. I go to the laundry room to tell her thank you for cleaning up the remaining mess. I open the door expecting her to be crying but shes just standing there looking in the other direction. Not sure if she was angry, frustrated, etc but it was weird. It was almost emotionless. She turns and looks at me and asks me to leave. I tell her I'd like to say something and she asks me to leave.

So I leave and she stays in there another 5 minutes. Then she goes upstairs and stays up there 10 minutes. So now I'm downstairs on the couch typing this. She is avoiding me and thumping around. I feel bad if there was a mess I didn't see, but I think she's making a huge deal out of a small situation. She's an OCD neat freak so this stuff bugs her immensely and is one of the large issues we have.

I won't apologize to her for this. I'm trying to be better at when to give apologies. I'm thinking its best to give her space and call it a night. Not freaking out over stuff like this anymore though it does make me feel bad inside. If she wants to get divorced because of small messes and "not calling the yard guy" (another gem from last night) then there's nothing I can do to stop this crazy train. I'll shake it off and live to fight another day.

This whole situation has such a way of messing with my mind. Felt in control last night. This mess thing initially made me feel out of control, but I'm able to realize and rebalance now. Didn't have that skill set a couple months ago.

W just sat down on couch and I told her thank you for getting the mess. No response.

Planning to cut a check to retain my L on tuesday so I can respond to the S agreement her Ls will be working on. Should be a good hole for us to chuck money into. I'd love to see her explain that to D one day.

On that note, I need to figure out how best to talk to D about this with W next week. W made it a point today for the 3 of us to sit down and explain to D what was happening with her bestfriends parents who told us yesterday they are separating. W made it sound like no big deal and D should just help her friend if she needed it. W said its normal and everything will be ok for the friend. I told D that her friend would probably be pretty sad/confused and if she gets angry with D then D shouldn't think she's doing something wrong. Also, I said D should try to help her feel better and have fun if she can. W says that Ds friend took it very well and doesn't care that her parents are separating.

I put all that there bc you can see what I'm up against in telling D about all this. W has it in her brain that everything will be fine. Not sure it's best to sugarcoat this for D. Our interaction on friends situation was far from ideal though. I don't want that disjointed of an effort when we tell D. Need to think this through more.

The H in the situation above wants to go out this week to shoot pool. I'll probably go, but I'm not sure how I'll be able to handle it. He talks to my W a lot about all this stuff (he's a SAHD) and I'm hesitant to give advice for fear he relays everything back to my W. I should go though to give him support. I know how hard it must be for him. I do wonder if W has shared what we are going through. If he wants to talk about that I'll just tell him I don't want to discuss it.

I just asked W if it was his decision to split. She harshly said back "what difference does it make?" I told her it makes a difference with how you help console the person. She then goes back into her phone. I'm thinking I need to stop engaging my W at all now. She says us not conversing is me going back to my old ways, but there seems to be no way I win right now. Having her spew at me is more negative than not having interaction I guess.

Going to try to carry over the feeling from last nights conversation but it's proving difficult today. Two steps forward, one step back. W sure has a way of putting a damper on things. Note to self, not fully out of her sphere of influence yet but getting closer. Amazing how much of a game this is.


Me39
M11 : T13
D9
BD 5/31/16
In House S until 6/21/17
Divorced 10/5/18
lt0402 #2702021 09/05/16 06:46 AM
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lt0402 - over on the MLC forum thanks to a reference by CT1118 I found the thread of someone called AmyC who had gone through a MLC. I'm not saying that is what your W is dealing with but your comment about your W just standing there reminded of this quote

Originally Posted By: AmyC

And for the record, I wasn't overly emotional or bitchy, although there were certainly times...
My husband said it best when he looked at me one day from across the kitchen and said "You're as cold as ice".

To this day, I remember that moment.

I'd become the tinman.

I'm looking at this from the outside so may not be right here but I think your W's anger and silences should be a flashing danger sign that you shouldn't ignore. She may have just been pushed over the edge by teriyaki salmon.

I think you had good intentions with thanking her but her anger was way beyond anything that could be dealt with by words.

What was the root cause of all of this? Well - I'm not a mind-reader wink but she may have been thinking that you were being rude and thoughtless. Her cleaning was less about the cleaning and more believing that yet one more straw was being heaped onto an already over-loaded camel.

Tread carefully.

Just my 2 cents - I could be completely wrong here.


On BD
H52, W50
T27, M26
S21, D23
BD-9-Mar-16
D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18
I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good.
But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
AndrewP #2702028 09/05/16 07:49 AM
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For me I wouldn't offer any comments supporting the friends S unless the reason is due to truly abusive behavior. Instead I would steer it back to fixing the M, just as you want. This shows consistency of thought and actual caring your their child's future. Who cares if it gets back to your W. In fact it would be good that it did. You can show you really believe in fixing the M and are changing for the better without saying a word to W. Stand up for M, yours and theirs, it helps your cause.


Me:49 W:45
M:19 T:22
EA confirmed and ended 8/2014
S:19,17 D:9,5
mvgfwd2 #2702033 09/05/16 08:42 AM
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lt0402 Offline OP
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Agree AP. W would have viewed me leaving a mess as just more of the same from me. Ws definition of a mess is much different than the regular worlds though. Regardless, it was not my intention for her to clean up for me and hence the thank you. I'm starting to wonder if there isn't some influence from a MLC here as well. W keeps talking about her 40th bday as a massive deal and having all this "fixed" and me gone by then. W has been combative this morning as well, in front of both D and her friend. Rationally and calmly sticking up for myself but it's having an affect on D. Need to figure out how to force her to have these away from D.

MV, I'm in complete agreement. My thoughts were more around sharing details on what I'm doing to try to save my M when he's so talkative with my W. I'm 100% there to help support him in saving his M if that's what he's pushing for. I've got a lot of great advice for him (thanks to all of you) and I'm happy to share that with him bc it's the right thing to do. I don't care if that gets back to my W. I'm going to catch up with him this Friday for a bit to play some pool. Feel horrible for the guy.

With telling my D I can see that devolving into my W pushing that it's no big deal and my pushing that D needs to support her friend. Effectively it becomes a proxy war for our battle we have going on with our opposing views on our own divorce. I'd like to avoid that at all costs, but W seems to already be leveraging it. I don't want D stuck on the middle of this and ever since you all pointed out I was doing this I've been very careful to frame almost everything as W and I. W, however, leverages D heavily in our discussions as W and D vs me. Luckily I know this isn't the case and I don't take that bait anymore.

Thanks all for the advice and thoughts!


Me39
M11 : T13
D9
BD 5/31/16
In House S until 6/21/17
Divorced 10/5/18
lt0402 #2702192 09/06/16 06:29 AM
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lt0402 Offline OP
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Did a lot of thinking yesterday, as W and D did lunch and painted pottery for about 4.5 hours. They did this w/ Ds best friend and the mom who is separating from her H. I'm very concerned about what W said to D as they were driving to and from this, but can't control that.

Thought a lot about why W has been so combative after our custody talk. She kept saying that she's doing this for our D and not for her. Part of that was she doesn't want D to be in such a toxic environment w/ us arguing all the time. W seems to be working to keep that perception going by poking at me. I need to not fall for her bait and walk away when she gets heated with me. D was visibly hurt when W jumped on me yesterday. I may speak to W about this, but am unsure it helps anything. Probably best to make my point by not engaging going forward.

Now that D is back in school (first day today), I want to get plugged into helping her w/ her homework. W has typically done this, as I've worked somewhat long hours. Since this all started, I've made a better balance of work and home so I think this is the next step to getting more involved w/ D. W will spew on this and fight, as she thinks she's the only one who can help on homework, but I'll push through that.

I think I've lost some focus on pushing back on W to do Ds meals and meds too. We've fallen a bit back into the old routine we had for that stuff. Going to discuss a schedule with her so that we are both doing this on a rotational basis. I've got all that ingrained, but would like to have the practice there.

Also, I'm not proactively pushing this D through, but there are some things that need to get done on the house prior to us selling. We need to get some painting done and have some drywall cracks repaired. I'll probably go ahead and get this lined up as it needs to get done regardless. W will also have an opinion on this, but i'll push through that as well.

I'm also realizing that Ws idea of custody w/ D sleeping at her residence every night allows her to continue to control D and me. She says I can have as much time w/ D at her place after work as I want. So long as we are at her place w/ her, W continues to be able to control what we do. I definitely can't allow her to continue being as controlling as she is. D and I need a chunk of time away from her both our sanity and well being.

Started a log last week of the time D and I spend together. Who knows if i'll need it, but I'm moving forward w/ the assumption W is doing something similar. No idea if she is, but it was a good suggestion previously by fade I believe.

I'm getting better w/ the thought that things probably won't work out w/ W and I. The more I view my W as someone who is lost and flailing about for definition/meaning in her life, the more it helps in dealing w/ this. AndrewP's thoughts around having compassion for her while she struggles were spot on. I know I can't control her actions and I've stopped trying. I won't be proactive on the divorce process, but I won't keep her from moving things forward. I still feel some heaviness from the PA part of this, but those tend to be fleeting feelings.

I feel more in control of me than I have in a while. My health is great as I'm exercising 2x a day (running in the morning, weights in the afternoon). My relationship w/ my D is much better than it had been and gets better every day. My risk to the relationship w/ my D is from my W who attempts to undercut it. I'm aware of this and am being proactive in defending against this where appropriate.

Next on my list of things to do is to retail my L today or tomorrow in response to W starting work on S agreement. Also, W wants to tell D about situation this weekend. I'm going to push back and say to wait until next weekend to get D through school, as well as be able to chat w/ IC next Tuesday on it. I'm debating inviting W to meet w/ IC w/ me about how best to tell D. Unsure if this is a good idea or not, but it would be w/ no intention of discussing anything else.

My current goals are:

1) Continue building my relationship w/ D
2) Continue to work on exercise bc of how helpful it's been
3) At least 2 days a week, be there to do homework w/ D
4) At least 3 days a week, do meals for D
5) At least 4 days a week, do meds for D
6) At least one GAL activity per week that doesn't involve exercise
7) Continue down the RSG path of learning how to cook. Probably no more teriyaki salmon for the time being!

In a more stable place than I have been. I know there will be further road bumps, but I'm building up the skills to handle them. Interested to see what the future holds for my D and myself. I want to be the best dad for her that I can be. I'm not there yet, but I know I'm moving in the right direction. No one can convince me otherwise.

Appreciate everyone's support here!


Me39
M11 : T13
D9
BD 5/31/16
In House S until 6/21/17
Divorced 10/5/18
lt0402 #2702217 09/06/16 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted By: lt0402
Need to figure out how to force her to have these away from D.


You arent going to 'force' her to do anything.

What are your boundaries? If she berates you in front of D, how do you react?

MoveFrwd #2702232 09/06/16 09:15 AM
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Good point darknes, poor choice of wording on my part but I'm also a little worked up on that. My boundary is that anytime she berates me in front of my D I tell her to please don't speak to me like that. If she continues then I get up and leave the situation.

Very similar to how we have disciplined D in the past. Give her a warning for her behavior and explain the consequences for doing it again. If she does it again we punish her.

Sad that I'm at the point of having to do this to my W.

Thanks Darknes!


Me39
M11 : T13
D9
BD 5/31/16
In House S until 6/21/17
Divorced 10/5/18
lt0402 #2702242 09/06/16 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted By: lt0402
Need to figure out how to force her to have these away from D.

Very similar to how we have disciplined D in the past.

If she does it again we punish her.


I understand that your wording may not be the best, but your words here come across to me as controlling. You are implying that you walking away is "punishing" to your W. But that isnt the point of a boundary - the point is to protect you/D from having this kind of conversation in front of your daughter, right?

So what can you do to change your mindset from focusing on W's reaction to focusing on your action?

lt0402 #2702244 09/06/16 09:58 AM
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Well, more drama here. Just got this from my W:

W: "You should be more careful using Phone Rescue to snoop through my iphone/ipad. You know there's nothing there and it's not legal to use it on my stuff, right?"

Me: "?"

W: "The phone rescue app you downloaded. It's used to log into people's phones. You left a trail. Stop"

Me: "On our PC? I used it to get deleted images off my iphone. I have no access to your pword or phone. I told you how I saw your FB stuff. I haven't touched your iphone. Stop. I've told you I haven't been on your FB since Jun and that's when I saw those msgs on Ds ipad. I have not been on your iphone. I've also explained I'm not snooping on you anymore. It's your life and they are your choices. I'm only concnered w/ how those choices impact others besides you."

So it seems like W is in a very paranoid place. I probably should not have responded, but felt like I needed to. Apparently she thinks I'm actively surveiling her like some private detective from a movie.

Guess this goes to show the detrimental affect any sort of snooping can have. This thing is getting so ridiculous it'd be laughable if I wasn't neck deep in it.

The funniest thing is she doesn't realize I truly don't care what she does at this point w/ her life. I'm being honest w/ her that all I care about is how her choices are impacting D and I. With each of these new "encounters" with her, I find myself caring less and less, which seems like both a good and a sad thing.

Honestly, she seems to be manufacturing issues now which is somewhat of a stretch. I guess I let her stew in this, though I may show her how her FB logs in automatically on Ds ipad. Maybe I don't. I don't know that I even care enough at this point what she thinks.

Never a dull moment!


Me39
M11 : T13
D9
BD 5/31/16
In House S until 6/21/17
Divorced 10/5/18
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