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Your daughter sounds an awful lot like me at her age. Heck, she sounds a lot like me right now! Parties just make me feel awkward and uncomfortable, though I have come a very, very long way since I was A D18 myself.

I wonder if she also struggles in situations where she knows people only slightly, rather than knowing them well. Parties are rife with such semi-acquaintances. The absolute most difficult situation that I used to face is where I knew one person well, and the other people present knew that person, too, but I didn't know them. That was always a recipe for complete inhibition on my part. This one has improved a lot with time for me but sometimes it's still an issue.

Roist is absolutely right, though. It is almost never the group shutting the introvert out, it is the introverts that disconnect themselves. I know I did it. People would come up to me with smiles and friendly intentions, and I was so overwhelmed that I just wanted to flee. I know it didn't make me seem very open to friendship. It was so much easier on me to really know a couple people very well, than to "know" a bunch of people on a shallower level. I just didn't realize then the value in every connection I made. I was scared, and inhibited, and making more connections was difficult, so I focused on putting my energy into a few people. That pattern was almost my undoing; I had all of my eggs in the basket labeled WH, and when he left, I was, quite literally almost alone. I started reaching out ASAP, but it was hard because I didn't have much to build on.

These days I am just trying very hard to really hear the welcoming in the voices of those I spend time with. People genuinely WANT to include us introverts. We just need to find a way to connect that still allows us the time and space we sometimes need to recenter ourselves. Time, practice, and maturity can do a lot for kids like us, and I am including you in this little cohort, SH, as well as myself and your D18.

SH, I hear exactly what you are saying, and I think about that nearly every day regarding l-friend. After having been so thoroughly rejected, part of me really does crave all of the things you mentioned. I recognize that. I don't know where this new relationship is going, quite honestly, and I am doing my best to keep the lines of communication open and to monitor for red flags. Yes, the depression is a major flag, waving right in my face, and I get that and have been concerned about it since the beginning.

We have talked frankly about our attachment levels, but you are absolutely right, it is high time l-friend and I checked in with each other again on this front and talked about it frankly and openly. We have done so previously, on more than one occasion, but things are getting more muddled over time, as you so rightly surmised.

Please feel free to say anything you wish to me, SH. I won't take offense. I may not agree with everything you say, but I would still like to hear it. You don't have to tread carefully with me. You have earned your place at my advisor's table, and I value your perspective. smile

Thank you for your thoughts, Sage Homme. I hope you don't mind if I continue renaming you on an as-needed basis. I enjoy playing with words, and it also reflects my feeling of friendship towards you.

(((((((Super Human))))))) smile


H: 44, Me: 45
Married: 20 y Together: 25 y
no kids
Walk away: 12/15
Asked for temp separation 12/25/15
PA confirmed 3/16 (apparently neither the first, nor the last PA he has had)
H filed for D 5/16
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Good evening.

I have thought much on the things shared with me and questions asked.

I have learned that there is more power in a good strong hug than in a thousand meaningful words.

Quote:
So you think that you can change that about yourself ??

I'm not sure that one can change themself from being introverted..

It's how we are built..


I do think that I can change myself.
Not that I can pull the introvert out of me.
But that I can understand that which is hard wired and that which is malleable.

My first goal is to understand that which it means to be an introvert and accept it.
Then I will understand what I can do to adjust certain habits to benefit and capitalize on the social connections and interactions that can benefit me and those with whom I choose to have as part of my life.

There is much information, both scientific and psycological that can aid me in this venture.
Intrigued by much that I have read already.

Quote:
What you can do however, is to understand it, work within the confines, and embrace that about yourself, and understand how it plays into your activities, and communication.


This is what I believe as well

My goal is to be the best me, there is with the tools that I have and the skills that I can apply to habits that will benefit in this venture.

I agree to a point that one may not be able to change from an introvert to an high energy extrovert.
Kind of like I can never become a body builder like Arnold Schwarzenegger.
But I can become the best, in shape 45 year old father, and man, with conditioning and strength that I have not had since my early years in the Army.
I have done that through dedication, consistency and creation of habits that have provided "change" to my health and physique.
I truly see emotional health and limits the same as physical ones.
You work with what you have and you create habits that push you to the next level of your potential.

Quote:
For instance..

I know that I have introverted tendencies, and for the most part, I AM an introvert.

I understand that being passionate about something removes all of that, right up to the point that I "run out of gas" , and duck back into myself for a quick recharge.

As an introvert, I "think" within myself as well. I gather information, hear opinions and advice, then I crawl into myself to search for the answer that suits me the best.

As an introvert, I need to be really careful how I communicate. I give information as an introvert, yet I am guilty at times of expecting information as an extrovert.

Answers , for me, come in my time, yet I expect answers on my time as well, and that often doesn't play well into another persons criteria.


This is what I am learning about myself now.
I am seeing that I am not a broken human being.
I fear that I had break downs out of desperation over many years in my MR and what came out was behavior that I am not proud of.
Behavior that ultimately drove my STBXW straight out of my MR.

Quote:
In my marriage, my ex was an extrovert. WE , handled communication very poorly.

She would ask a question, and want an answer on her time. Answers that I did not have yet. And I would become frustrated, because not only did I not have an answer yet, I didn't know how to communicate that I didn't have an answer...

The exact opposite for me, I would ask the question, get the answer, lather rinse repeat if it turned into a discussion of any depth.


I tended to think my W was an extrovert.
I have had it pointed out that she may be more introverted than I realized.
Now that I am learning this, I see it.
The issue is when she would force extroverted behavior she comes off as very socially awkward and creates uncomfortable situations.
I am seeing that she struggled with communication, because somewhere in her life, she determined that things just need to flow and effective communication is not needed. If anyone disagrees with her, she shuts down. This is where I realized more introverted tendencies. She needed time to think it over.
Unfortunately her thinking things over became rumination and a creation of her truths that may not align with what is.
The sad reality is this approach is really deteriorating her relationship with her D18.
That is an update for another time though.

The month before the BD, was a very poor month for me.
I had some things fall through on some big plans and I withdrew.
Withdrew to recharge and figure it out.
I withdrew so deep that from the outside I appeared a zombie.
I recall her asking me many times if I was okay and if I was mad, or sad or what was wrong with me.
Initially I knew that I was not any of those things.
I was simply trying to figure it out in the confines of my comfortable space.
She pushed hard.
I tried to explain in a calm manner.
She did not understand and pushed harder.
I tried more desperately to explain and this went round and round until.........poof....all up in smoke.

To me the really heartbreaking part of this all, was that I was seeking out knowledge for all of this before the BD.
I was doing this because I wanted to identify my issue in our 19 years of communication issues.
I came from a training called emergenetics which discusses much of this about people and the hard wiring of the brain.
Well guess what the results of the assessment were for me?
I fall into a category that less than 10% of folks that go through this fall into.
I require great amounts of organization and thought in order to move on things, I am very quiet when in groups and I prefer to avoid confrontation.
I was discussing this with D18 when she said, maybe we can all do the assessment and then learn better ways to interact based on the outcomes for the family.

My WAW threw this in my face several times on her way out and called it BS and that I should think for myself and not listen to what every one else says about how I am.

Hmmm......????

I will continue to seek out knowledge and learn for this.

I lost over 60 lbs through dedicated exercise and nutrition after 40 plus years of bad habits.
I am going to do the same with some emotional habits.

Quote:
But we BOTH understand our communication style..


This is a key to any future relationships I will have, whether it be friend, family, business, or the long shot of a new intimate relationship.
Communication is key.
Style is necessary
And if the person thinks communication is irrelevant.
Then "Good day to you my friend."

Quote:
SH, embrace the tools that you have rather than to try and conform to what you think that you should be...


Yes, to clarify.
My tools to be the best Hero in my story.
I will not conform any longer as that.....that has been the gnawing pain in my heart and soul for far to much of my life.



Quote:
For me, there are times when I crave the noise, or the external validation. Like any person, I want to hear that I did a good job, I'm a good person, etc....

But I don't always want that. I am quite capable of trusting myself to know that I am a good person, or that I did a good job on something...

I get that from within...

So...HOW do you seek validation ?

How do you communicate ?


Interesting take on this.
It makes complete sense and something I definitely need to clarify in my own mind so that I can demand that of myself and strengthen from within so I know what strengthens me and what does not.


Quote:
Introverts Unite !!!...Together!!!.........Alone.......


Absolutely!
My readings indicate that there may actually be more introverts in the world than extroverts.
The key is to identify them and work together to enhance our abilities and strengths.

Thank you Mach for guiding me.
I look forward to shaking your hand......


Me 46 Former W 46
D19 D7
BD Feb 2016
WAW moves out 4/16/16
D final 6/1/2017

It's time for me to start changin' the way I look at the world......and at myself. ~James Howlett aka Wolverine
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SH, your daughter is so lucky to have you.

I wish I could be a fly on the wall when you help your daughter through this. I think I would learn some parenting tips I could use with my child with social anxiety. (I don't think he's an introvert, but maybe. Can you be a talkative introvert?)


Me: 44
H: 44
Kids: 20, 16, 16, and 10
Together/Married: 22 years
H announced he was emotionally detached and considering D: 4/4/16
H announced he is going to try to stay and reconnect: 5/1/16
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SH, never were truer words spoken:

"I have learned that there is more power in a good strong hug than in a thousand meaningful words."


H: 44, Me: 45
Married: 20 y Together: 25 y
no kids
Walk away: 12/15
Asked for temp separation 12/25/15
PA confirmed 3/16 (apparently neither the first, nor the last PA he has had)
H filed for D 5/16
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,687
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Originally Posted By: SH_
I do think that I can change myself.
Not that I can pull the introvert out of me.
But that I can understand that which is hard wired and that which is malleable.

My first goal is to understand that which it means to be an introvert and accept it.
Then I will understand what I can do to adjust certain habits to benefit and capitalize on the social connections and interactions that can benefit me and those with whom I choose to have as part of my life.



Its funny actually....

I was talking to a poster here over the weekend ( who doesn't post much anymore), about Types of ADHD. I wanted to know more about it...

One thing that he said, was that he wasn't as concerned anymore about how to control his ADHD, as he was about how to use it to his advantage...







Originally Posted By: SH_

Thank you Mach for guiding me.
I look forward to shaking your hand......



Lines....

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Okay,

I have to buckle down here.
I may have ADHD.
It's the whole "SQUIRREL!!" thing for me.

I am sitting down to do something that I read Vanilla does for this community.
She schedules out a way to help others, but not lose focus on her own needs.
One of those challenges I have for myself as I am discovering as well as it has been pointed out here by several of my DB friends.

I have received some wonderful benefits from helping many others here, but I am neglecting my own path and journey.
Balance.
I need balance.

I need to stop rambling.......Dam it....SQUIRREL!!!!!

So my point here is to say thank you to roist and Phoebe for you thoughts as it relates to the issue with D18 last week.

It turned out to be a great thing as she really buckled down and looked inside of herself and determined she was afraid of rejection. She pointed out some traumatic things that she felt created this for her.
Then she set a goal to go out and get rejected several times this week.
All part of the plan she is working with her IC.
Such a tough gal and a heck of an example to her dad.
roist and Phoebe are spot on and I thank you for your thoughts and supportive words for me.

Quote:
Opening up and sharing your inner thoughts is one thing I have noticed help so many LBS advance on working on themselves. It is truly encouraging to read your openness and honest reflections. It is a brave thing to do (especially for an introvert!!!) But it is the best way to really dig deep and improve oneself.

Reading and learning self improvement stuff is great and the awareness/understanding gathered can put you on the right track. Digging deep is what fuels the journey and brings you to where you need to get too.

I do believe some people need to understanding fully the original underlying causes of their damaging behaviours before they can rectify them. I personally think some people are capable of doing so without such past based reflection. By this I mean it is possible to advance and work on behaviours/characteristics without over analysing the causes.

I read somewhere a technique that could help you. It is founded on the basis that the subconscious ALWAYS has your best intentions at heart.So you take a damaging behavior and ask yourself why you do that/for what purpose? Then you repeat the process for the answer you found. Ultimately you come to a core belief that was the cause and it is always to help you.

For example disconnecting in a group of people could be a self protection mechanism to prevent you being hurt. The intention is good but being disconnected in a group actually hurts you more. This helps figure out how to effectively work on inner beliefs and reprogram your subconscious in a more beneficial way.

I can understand your daughter's plight but I suspect she could be the cause of the disconnection subconsciously.I will not belittle her struggle by saying she just has to decide to stay connected. It is not quite that simple yet it can be. I have had many such moments since my situation started and it was always me turning internally and never the group shutting me out.


Thank you roist for this.
I have read it several times and I am just letting it sink in and marinating on it.

Rose, it is pleasure to have you drop by.

Quote:
SH, your daughter is so lucky to have you.

I wish I could be a fly on the wall when you help your daughter through this. I think I would learn some parenting tips I could use with my child with social anxiety. (I don't think he's an introvert, but maybe. Can you be a talkative introvert?)


Thank you. And I am lucky to have my daughter. She is such an example to me.
Let me know and we can chat and share the things I teach and learn from d18.
And yes, you absolutely can be a talkative introvert. There is some fascinating information out there as it relates to introverts. I wish I would have looked into more of it years ago, instead of accepting it as a curse.

Drop by more often as I would love to converse with you.

Mach,

Did I use ADHD as my issue at the beginning of my post here because of your post to me?
Hmmmm.......

Quote:
Its funny actually....

I was talking to a poster here over the weekend ( who doesn't post much anymore), about Types of ADHD. I wanted to know more about it...

One thing that he said, was that he wasn't as concerned anymore about how to control his ADHD, as he was about how to use it to his advantage...


Yes, work with what we got and be the best with what we have.

Quote:
Soon...is a relative statement...


The relative statement loop
"The statement "everything is relative" (EverythingIsRelative) is an absolute statement. If "everything is relative" is true then some things (at least that statement) aren't relative. If some things aren't relative, "everything is relative" is false."

Originally Posted By: SH_

Thank you Mach for guiding me.
I look forward to shaking your hand......



Originally Posted By: Mach1
Lines....


Quote:
"For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:"


My ADHD brain is over thinking your words for sure.
I hope I understood what you intended.......


Once again, long winded and all over the place.
Tomorrow the daily journaling begins.

I need to see my own picture, path and was forward.

"You can tell when something's not moving forward anymore. When the doubts you have about it don't go away."
Jeffrey Eugenides

"Don't dwell on what went wrong. Instead, focus on what to do next. Spend your energies on moving forward toward finding the answer." Denis Waitley


Me 46 Former W 46
D19 D7
BD Feb 2016
WAW moves out 4/16/16
D final 6/1/2017

It's time for me to start changin' the way I look at the world......and at myself. ~James Howlett aka Wolverine
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Thanks for the reply.

I find your daughter's decision to get rejected on purpose to be very brave. My kiddo isn't there yet. Is there anything you did as a parent that you feel helped get her to the place where she could address her issues so bravely?

What is the most helpful response you've found to a teen who is melting down over a social event?

Really, I'll take any crumbs of wisdom you can offer.


Me: 44
H: 44
Kids: 20, 16, 16, and 10
Together/Married: 22 years
H announced he was emotionally detached and considering D: 4/4/16
H announced he is going to try to stay and reconnect: 5/1/16
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Hello, SH. Just a drive by to check in on you and send you a virtual hug. I'm falling asleep and not in any state to write much of anything. I just wanted to let you know that I'm still here.

((((((Sensational Hominid))))))


H: 44, Me: 45
Married: 20 y Together: 25 y
no kids
Walk away: 12/15
Asked for temp separation 12/25/15
PA confirmed 3/16 (apparently neither the first, nor the last PA he has had)
H filed for D 5/16
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,732
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Rose, I will jump over to your thread and share some ideas and thoughts to see if you can take anything away that may aid you.

Phoebe! My dear sweet Phoebe!
Slow down already.
Hey I thought I was the crazy GALer round here, but holy cow are you just on the go go go! LOL
Seriously YOU GO GIRL!!!! laugh
Live it up and have some of that fun now.
Pace yourself though.
We aint 21 any more. wink

So, I want to try a serious update as I have many things that have happened since my last real journal update.
I do want to bullet point it so as not to bore my devoted readers and followers. smirk

Seriously, I want to jot down the things that were a big enough impact to be thought about, pondered upon and have had an influence on me. It has been just over 1 month since I documented some actual journaling of events.

So I am going to title this,

The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly!


The Good
It was a Birthday month as D18, D6 and myself all turned 1 year older. We partied for each of us and had a wonderful time.
Boy, did I get a lesson in throwing a 6 year old little girls party. I tip my heat to all the moms that do this stuff regularly. It turned out great and the lil one had a blast.
A friend from work took care of me for my B day. Took me to a ball game and we had awesome seats. Then he took me to see Suicide Squad. it was alright, but fun to hang out.
My girls also set up a small party for the 3 of us in which we went to breakfast and then to a place here to bowl and play games. More for d6, than anything, but it was a fun time.

D18 found the most awesome job. She is such an example of not following the crowd or status quo no matter how much pressure she gets from peers or family. She is working at a start up digital marketing company, getting paid really well. Started off as her looking for an internship to do what she is interested in (marketing), offered a paid job part time instead, was just asked last week to be full time and the company is growing. The things she is learning are amazing.
When I am asked why she is not starting college, I respond, "Because she is getting an education. " wink She loves the opportunity and is doing well.
D18 has made some huge strides in her social realm. I reported a breakdown for her, and she has turned it into a success and self created challenge. She is such an example to me. Goodness how lucky am I to have a daughter like her???

D6 has been off to a great start in first grade. She is doing pretty well in spite of the situation. She is always so cheerful and happy when she is with me. Just a sweetheart through and through.

I am still employed, although my employer is at a cross roads and I may have to move on to another opportunity sooner than I would like to under the circumstances. But hey, after what I have been through the last 6 months. I think I can handle that if it happens. Meanwhile I am looking to set up some proactive options.

2 weeks ago I attended a leadership seminar at work and it was put on by a woman that has been names as one of the top woman business coaches in my area and has been working with a number of fortune 500 companies etc.
Now the reason I mention this, is because as she was presenting healthy successful ways to progress through change, she shared a little bit of her story.

Her story was that 7 and a half years ago, she had been married about 10 years, had 2 small daughters and was working with her husband in a couple of small businesses.
She then shared how she remembers it like yesterday.
It was the end of a long work day and her H needed his phone. She went to grab it for him, so he could finish up something on the computer. As she grabbed the phone a message on the screen caught her attention. It said, "I love you and I can't wait to see you."
She had not sent this text to her husband. sick
He left the next day to hook up with an old GF from high school. She was left with her daughters, over 40000 dollars in debt from the businesses and a broken heart.
Not even 1 minute to Db is she wanted to.
Do you know what she did next?
Yup, set up the thriving professional coaching business that she runs and is on the top of the world.
Single mom. Debt out of her ears. On her own.
She overcame the BD.
I can overcome it.
And each of you LBS reading this sure as heck can as well.
You simply have to want to.

I am in a good place overall. Fighting some demons that existed for me before the BD, but now my perspective on things and temperament is much different, so maybe it was all for a reason.



The Bad
The day after my B day, I was getting ready to go to church and then just broke down and cried. Came out of no where and I could not put my thumb on exactly what the trigger or cause was. I was able to pull myself together, but ended up just staying in all day and relaxing.
WTF????

d18 has had a couple of breakdowns as she has ventured into the social world. It has been a learning lesson for me. But she is prevailing.

d18 has seen her IC several times and feels it is helping her. She is learning how to manage her mothers behaviors with love and boundaries.

d6 was off for a bit over the past month. Little comments and conversations that just break my heart, but she to appears to be prevailing and handling this like a champ as well.
Still keeping my eye in it.

My support group has dwindled and now I am thinking of distancing myself from a good friend of 30 years, because his sitch with his WW is wearing me out. He complains regularly about it and the thing is, his WW is actually trying to piece. He cannot get over the hurt and it may blow up the whole thing. Nothing she does is good enough, even though she does what he wants. But, when I need someone to chat with he is always busy or hard to get a hold of. He is the quintessential MR Nice Guy as I understand the info on this.

I am hiding and go through the same routines. I know it is not going to help me move forward, but I feel frozen and with out directions right now.

The Ugly

The relationship between my d18 and her mother is deteriorating more and more. Her mom complains that she never goes to see her. D18 says that when she goes, her mother ignores her.
They fight on the phone when d18 does not jump at everything her mom wants. And when I say fight, I mean, D18 sticks to the boundaries and consequences and her mother kicks, screams throws out guilt trips, hangs up and refuses to acknowledge d18 saying I love you mom, and does not ever say she loves d18.
She also stalked d18 this past Monday. D18 turned down an invite from her mother as it was a last minute one, and she already had plans with friends. She told her mother she was going hiking and told her where.
Mom showed up, acted surprised to run into d18, akward exchange of pleasantries and then d18 said she had to go to take friends home. This bothered her for the rest of the day.
What the...????

Over a month and still no idea what the deal is with the D. I got all the docs to my L 3 and half weeks ago. Have a couple of calls out the week and no word yet.
STBX was snappy about this a couple of weeks ago, because her L told her they needed the proposed holiday schedule. She asked me why, I responded that she could ask her L why. He requested it. She said, your L requested it from mine. I said, okay. she said you don't know why. I said, I am not interested why, my L is handling it. She got nasty with her witch cackle.....uh, hat was not very nice of me...but hey, that is what it sounds like when she is trying to belittle me and does not know what to say.
I simply responded that it might be best if she want to have an adult conversation we could do it another time as d6 did not need to hear this. She tried the witch cackle again, but it seemed to catch in her throat and she just rolled her eyes.
I smiled and bid her good day....good day...I said good day!! laugh (That 70 show for reference)

I am going to try and go in and conquer some of these demons of mine, or at least throw a bridle on them and take control of where they walk. Still stuck in a limbo state, but not really stuck if that makes any sense.

So that is an update and the events that remain in my mind from the past month and hold some value to my thoughts.

Onward I will go.
Life is about growth and progress.
Bumps in the road will happen.
I will look at this as an opportunity to learn and grow.
A setback is a setup for a comeback. Once one realizes that we do not control everything and that bad things happen to good people we can push on.
Why should I think that I am immune from something like this?
Great and successful people throughout history arrived after a tragedy of sorts.
This is the story of my tragedy.....
And I will write until which time I can describe the triumph after said tragedy.

May you each have a peaceful rest and experience calm so that you can take the next step in your journey.

"The tragedy of life is not that we die, but is rather, what dies inside a man while he lives." -Albert Schweitzer

“It is not triumph which defines a man, but tragedy. Triumph always brings out the best in men, but tragedy shows us what we are made of.” -― Jocelyn Murray


Me 46 Former W 46
D19 D7
BD Feb 2016
WAW moves out 4/16/16
D final 6/1/2017

It's time for me to start changin' the way I look at the world......and at myself. ~James Howlett aka Wolverine
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,687
Likes: 236
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Originally Posted By: SH_

My ADHD brain is over thinking your words for sure.
I hope I understood what you intended.......


You know the site....

You know the date...

You know the post...


This is a really good article......SH

And I think you should read it..

Every line...


Originally Posted By: SH_
I look forward to shaking your hand......



I will go wash it.....

: )

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