Life has changed, and I choose to grow from it.

[SH_]

WAW is angry and filing divorce

WAW still behaving angry and moving to divorce

WAW still angry, moved out, D on the way?

WAW moved out, spewing anger, trying to detach

WAW,still angry, am I indifferent or detached now?

WAW, bouts of anger still spewing, awaiting the D.

I never imagined being here still, but I am thankful that I found this community and the support that it has provided.

Short recap for any new folks that may just be joining.

BD in early Feb.
Wife goes from asking for time and space because she has lost all feelings for everyone, to full on tantrum mode and following a script that you will start to see here in many a sitch.
I went into full depressive mode and lost my way and bearings for some time.
WAW moves out in mid April
D was supposed to be quick as she wanted it done ASAP as she hit her stride with he angry mode. But it has not gone quick, and I am not sure of the specific reasons why, other than she did not know what she needed and had some expectations that I did.
I am now at a point of calm as it relates to WAW and current sitch with my daughters.
But I am in fight internally with my own demons that I am working to exorcise and move forward to be the best Super Hero I can be in my own story for me, and my daughters.
Details are in the threads and I hope there are nuggets of info from my journey and or from those that have been there for me as I stumbled.
it is not a place that I would wish you were in, but it is a place of safe and support and I have not found a better place out there for this journey.

Remember this quote if your are an LBS as in it, is the secret to surviving and thriving this challenging situation in our life.

"The Secret of Change Is to Focus All of Your Energy, Not on Fighting the Old, But on Building the New." -Socrates

[Mach1]

Need. Not want. Quiet time.
Now that is stating what I have so unsuccessfully tried to explain to the STBX for years.
Now it simply feels like a curse.
In my mind I see myself in social settings and it is exciting. I crave the thought of doing it. I am even pumped up until the point of actually doing it. Then as soon as I step into the setting, BAM!, then the energy in me feels like it is sucked clean out of me and then I feel uncomfortable. Then it is only a matter of time before I feel the need to step away and I feel drained.

But, if it is a small setting with just a couple of people. I do fine. But afterwards I do need some alone time to recharge.

I am seeking out knowledge and reasons for this and the first good news, is it is not a curse and it is more common than I would have thought.

So now to break a lifetime of poor habits and an opportunity to create some new ones.
Maybe...just maybe I can enhance my " social conditioning", same as I have with my physical conditioning over the past couple of years.

So you think that you can change that about yourself ??

I'm not sure that one can change themself from being introverted..

It's how we are built..

What you can do however, is to understand it, work within the confines, and embrace that about yourself, and understand how it plays into your activities, and communication.

For instance..

I know that I have introverted tendencies, and for the most part, I AM an introvert.

I understand that being passionate about something removes all of that, right up to the point that I "run out of gas" , and duck back into myself for a quick recharge.

As an introvert, I "think" within myself as well. I gather information, hear opinions and advice, then I crawl into myself to search for the answer that suits me the best.

As an introvert, I need to be really careful how I communicate. I give information as an introvert, yet I am guilty at times of expecting information as an extrovert.

Answers , for me, come in my time, yet I expect answers on my time as well, and that often doesn't play well into another persons criteria.

In my marriage, my ex was an extrovert. WE , handled communication very poorly.

She would ask a question, and want an answer on her time. Answers that I did not have yet. And I would become frustrated, because not only did I not have an answer yet, I didn't know how to communicate that I didn't have an answer...

The exact opposite for me, I would ask the question, get the answer, lather rinse repeat if it turned into a discussion of any depth.

My GF now, is also in introvert...

Sometimes we have a single conversation for a few hours, with lapses of quiet during them.

But we BOTH understand our communication style..

SH, embrace the tools that you have rather than to try and conform to what you think that you should be...


Introverts Unite !!!...Together!!!.........Alone.......

Mach, would you explain a bit what you mean when you ask what I think my need for validation is? I think I understand the question, but I maybe overthinking it.

For me, there are times when I crave the noise, or the external validation. Like any person, I want to hear that I did a good job, I'm a good person, etc....

But I don't always want that. I am quite capable of trusting myself to know that I am a good person, or that I did a good job on something...

I get that from within...

So...HOW do you seek validation ?

How do you communicate ?




I think that you need to check out those lines from earlier too...

Read the site itself...

This is a really good article ......SH

8-25

[RosaLinda]

Hi Sh. I have read your lots of your posts to other people, and just wanted to tell you that I agree with what Mach wrote on Ginger's thread -- you ARE a class act!

[LanceSijan]

SH I think Mach is referring to my friends quote of MWD's post - you know this one.

Divorce Busting
August 25, 2016
Many people ask how it's possible to create change in a relationship if your spouse isn't motivated to do the same. Here at the Divorce Busting Center, we have a telephone coaching program that is designed specifically to help people whose partners are half-way out the door. In fact, practically everyone who contacts us is dealing with a marriage hanging by a thread.
We help that person to figure out what they need to do or say differently to get a different, more productive response from their partner. Thousands of people have created positive change in their marriages by HANDLING their situations in new and better ways.
So, if your spouse is saying, "I love you, but I'm not in love with you anymore," don't panic. There are many things you can still do to turn your relationship around. Although not all marriages can be saved, many can. Perhaps yours is one of them. Remember, it takes one to tango.
Michele Weiner-Davis

Have you really read it?
And followed ALL of Mach's advice?

[roist]

I see you are in good hands with vets lining up to guide you. You have supported many here, so make the most of the guidance offered to you.

I too am an intervert. I am not sure we can really change our nature but we can stop it dictating actions that are harmful to us. We can do more stuff. We can go towards people. We can be intimate in friendships and R.

Being introvert is not an issue. The behaviours that can cause are. Identify those behaviours and work on them. Not all behaviours need to be eliminated either. They can be reduced, modified, changed, controlled, etc.

[Phoebe]

Welcome to your new digs, SH!!! The new place looks great.

Just stopping by to check on you and see how things are going. I hope you are doing well. I need to hit the hay, but I'll be back tomorrow.

[SH_]

Hello, Sweet Homme. I am very sorry that it's taken me this long to read through your latest posts, though I did pop by a couple days ago to say hello. Maybe you missed me? As you know, my GAL has perhaps taken over my life, and I'm trying to find a better balance. smile

I have taken your advice for the last two days, though, and I have stayed home in my land of healing and peace, my farm that I love so much. It's been so nice to just get some things together here and not spend 2 hours every day driving. I'm commuting for most of my GAL activities! It's one of the downsides to rural life, but I wouldn't trade it. I'll commute gladly if it means I can live here.

I can completely relate to your introvert tendencies, and yet also to your ability and need to interact with others. I used to be so incredibly shy that I struggled to communicate in more than single words for most of the time I was in school. I never once asked a single question in class during my entire educational career, and that was over 21 years, from K through years 8 of college, and a lot of continuing educations since! It was only in my senior year of high school that I started to overcome my inhibitions a bit better. I am really good with other people one on one and I very much enjoy meeting and talking to new people. I can even now enjoy very small groups of people. My discomfort and feeling out-of-sorts grows directly proportional to the number of people present. Parties are a complete fail for me. A dinner get-together with 6 people last weekend was actually quite good (I only knew 3 of them at first), though I also relished my time alone afterward. Part of it is that I have a very quiet voice, and if there is a lot of background noise, I really struggle to be heard, and I just kind of shut down, instead. If someone asks me to talk louder, I just want to shut up, not speak up.

Anyway, I saw this on a t-shirt yesterday, and I thought it felt a lot like me, and I think you can relate as well.

"Introverts Unite!
We're Here, We're Uncomfortable And We Want To Go Home."

Despite my shyness, even as a kid i was always at my most comfortable while meeting total strangers. On the other hand, I was, and still am, always least comfortable talking to someone I know only slightly, so I really struggled in high school because I knew most people, and only slightly. I'm good with clients, however, and very much enjoy interacting with good pet people. I have to work hard to get through the awkward stage to get to friendship, though. It'a s big commitment for me to make a new friend.

I think that we all have a lot of baggage from our childhood experiences that influence us strongly, even as adults. Your history of moving a lot certainly would change the way you invest in and interact with new people. I can see how it would make you feel as if it might not be in your best interest to invest heavily in a casual friendship because you learned that friendships were temporary.

I am very sorry to hear that there has been any lack of respect on these forums. I haven't seen it myself, but I tend to stick to my few regular friends here because I get so easily overwhelmed with the pain that the true newcomers are going through.

I do believe that we should call people on it when their behavior or words are disrespectful, both here and in the outside world, but especially here. This is supposed to be a place of refuge and support. The last thing any new LBS here needs is to feel worse about the choices they are making. We've all been there, and we all know that the harshest critic we all fight is ourselves. We've all made mistakes, and we've all done things that are anti-DB principles. We're all learning and trying to survive, and anyone that feels a need to hurt, or be disrespectful of, other people here is violating the trust in other people that everyone here needs to reestabish.

It is absolutely true, though, that you can't tell people what to do. What may be glaringly obvious to an objective outsider is often invisible to a person who is living through the situation and just not ready to see or hear what is being said. They absolutely have to come to their won conclusions and decide that they need to help themselves.

I have someone close to me that suffers from depression. I can think of so many things that I wish he could do to help himself, but until he is ready to reach out for the help he needs, there really isn't much I can do besides just be there and listen. It's very hard. It's part of the detachment lesson that we are all learning. You can care about someone, and you can wish them all the best, but you can't do the work for them and you can't let them drag you down with them. You have to find a balance.

SH, I am working very hard on myself, and please know that I am not looking to another person to mask my pain or fill the void in my life, and certainly not to save me. I look to myself for all of those things. L-friend and I have an interesting way of interacting, and I can talk to him in a way that I haven't been able to talk to many others, except here on this forum. I am learning a lot from and with him about how to communicate effectively, something that I wasn't able to do with WH.

I'm not looking for happily ever after with this person. I am just letting things unfold without any expectation beyond being kind and supportive of each other. I am constantly monitoring to maintain a healthy, yet caring level of detachment. In fact, he is the person I know who struggles with depression. It is hard to watch, but I am not in any way forming a codependent relationship with him. I read my meditations on codependency daily, just in case, so I can recognize and nip in the bud any burgeoning tendencies I may be showing, and catch him when he shows any towards me. He will need to sink or swim on his own, just as I do, and he gets as many 2x4s as I give you. wink

I am very glad to see you here and that you are getting some of the support you still need. I am still here for you , too, and am very grateful that you continue to be here for me, as well.

((((((((((Super Hero and Sweet Human))))))))))

Phoebe,

Thank you for this thought out response and catching up with me.
The introvert aspect is something that I have been called out on so many times in life that it really felt like a curse.
I could never explain why I was the way I was and conforming was just more painful than it was ever worth.
I am now learning that it is not the curse I have for so long felt it was and it is liberating.
The sad part is my learning is from watching D18 struggle with it.
WAW just wanted to take her to therapy and get her meds.
I refused and said I could work her through it.
I did. I did because I understood what she was feeling and struggling with.
I did not understand why I knew this, but I could see me in her.
The really sad part is it was this past year that d18 was finally coming into her own and feeling confident before the BD.
I think my WAW just never could understand my challenges and I could not explain them to her and when she watched d18 become much the same as me in this aspect she lost it.
She wanted to blame me for "making" her that way. She held it against me. D18 has shared with me the spew that apparently had been going on for a few years about me from her mother.
The straw to break the camels back is when d18 started defending me because she was seeing that my way of things was not due to me being angry nor controlling nor a loser. All things WAW was trying to convince folks of.
WAW saw her baby slipping away from what she wanted her to be.

Anyway, I don't want to go down that road as it hurts, but it is what it is and I accept that now.
And I accept who and what I am. I was being controlled for so many years by her behaviors and expectations of me. I am not saying it was intentional, but she never stopped to try and see what I was, she only demanded that I be what she wanted me to be.
The harder I tried to do it her way, the less I could be me. She convinced me that I was depressed and needed help and medication. Just like she wanted for our d18.

Truth be told, after the shock of the BD wore off and I have worked to get my bearings, I have felt at peace in ways that I had almost forgotten.
So now my focus is on my demons that I have held down for so much of my life.
I accept that I am an introvert. I have learned that there are many more introverts than I realized.
My goal is to adjust some bad habits that I have formed over the years due to my lack of understanding this, and trying to conform only to find it more difficult than it was worth.

It is good to hear some clarification on your sitch and your friends.
I trust that you are being cautious and observing what is needed to keep things in order.

I will say this simply out of concern for you as a friend and someone looking from the outside in and with some understanding of the struggles you are going through and the wild mix of emotions. Some of this I say for myself as well so as to stay out of a sticky relationship myself.

Be very careful in trusting the logical side of your brain as you say trying to watch for codependent behaviors and setting so many stipulations in a new found relationship.
The emotional side of your brain is running wild and desperate for companionship, actions of affection and someone to validate you in the ways you feel vulnerable. You indicated that there has been intimacy but that neither are looking for anything long term. And the final thing you mentioned that raises a flag is the challenge of depression he faces.

Step back a couple of paces and look at that mix and be completely honest what it appears.
I say this without any judgement. But please be careful.
Famous last words are when one says, I don't want anything long term, lets see how it plays out and I won't get attached.
These are words that you can only say for yourself.
What about him?


Anyway, I perceive this to be a touchy subject in this community that few want to give advice on nor touch upon with each other, and I want to tread cautiously.

You are a dear friend now.
You were with me in some dark times and even though we have not met, I feel a special sort of bond as we shared things that very few others know about outside this community.
And I would share this advice with any close friend or family member so I feel inspired to do so for you.
Please be extremely cautious and take time regularly to step back and look at it from a purely factual and logical standpoint removing personal emotions and needs aside.
Once certain lines are crossed in any sort of relationships, the slope is slippery and there is not going back with out some rough spots.

Be well my friend.
Sleep tight and I look to hear from you soon.

[SH_]

Mach1 thank you so much for your support and wise words.

We have met so to speak in the large social circle. As I was reading, saw between a line.
I am not part of the social circle so you did not see me, but it is a pleasure.
Soon I will return to aquaint myself.

Lance, thank you for the encouragement and assists to ensure I was reading closely. Repetition always makes for better learning retention and seeing the point.

RosaLinda, I appreciate the kind words and look forward in a manner of speaking to being neighbors soon over in the "life after D" neighborhood.

My dear friend roist.
Thank you for dropping by and as always your encouragement and wise words.

Mach,
I do want to share my thoughts in response and had planned to do so this evening, but d18 just returned form a social event that she has looked forward to and she is having a breakdown.
My post to Phoebe, explains some of it. D18 has come a long way, but still struggles with many of the same challenges as we are discussing as it relates to me.

She is crying, because of how alone she felt tonight in a group of "friends" and she says the pain is so intense that she is thinking of just not going out anymore.
UGH!!! It hurts to see this, because I know exactly how she feels.

I will journal more later as it is late.

But thank you for all of the support and I do look forward to the opportunity to chat of this and get your perspective and wisdom.

Sleep tight everyone, and to any LBS that is reading this and struggling.
Know that you will get through the dark time.
How long it takes to do so, is up to you and how much work you are willing to do.
DB will teach you sound principles.
It is up to you to put it into practice.
What do you have to lose in trying it eh?

My prayers are with each of you this night.

[roist]

Opening up and sharing your inner thoughts is one thing I have noticed help so many LBS advance on working on themselves. It is truly encouraging to read your openness and honest reflections. It is a brave thing to do (especially for an introvert!!!) But it is the best way to really dig deep and improve oneself.

Reading and learning self improvement stuff is great and the awareness/understanding gathered can put you on the right track. Digging deep is what fuels the journey and brings you to where you need to get too.

I do believe some people need to understanding fully the original underlying causes of their damaging behaviours before they can rectify them. I personally think some people are capable of doing so without such past based reflection. By this I mean it is possible to advance and work on behaviours/characteristics without over analysing the causes.

I read somewhere a technique that could help you. It is founded on the basis that the subconscious ALWAYS has your best intentions at heart.So you take a damaging behavior and ask yourself why you do that/for what purpose? Then you repeat the process for the answer you found. Ultimately you come to a core belief that was the cause and it is always to help you.

For example disconnecting in a group of people could be a self protection mechanism to prevent you being hurt. The intention is good but being disconnected in a group actually hurts you more. This helps figure out how to effectively work on inner beliefs and reprogram your subconscious in a more beneficial way.

I can understand your daughter's plight but I suspect she could be the cause of the disconnection subconsciously.I will not belittle her struggle by saying she just has to decide to stay connected. It is not quite that simple yet it can be. I have had many such moments since my situation started and it was always me turning internally and never the group shutting me out.

I got to go. I had not intended writing so much. Best wishes.

[Mach1]

Mach,
I do want to share my thoughts in response and had planned to do so this evening, but d18 just returned form a social event that she has looked forward to and she is having a breakdown.
My post to Phoebe, explains some of it. D18 has come a long way, but still struggles with many of the same challenges as we are discussing as it relates to me.

Patience....was one of my qualities from the other day...

Take your time...

We have met so to speak in the large social circle. As I was reading, saw between a line.
I am not part of the social circle so you did not see me, but it is a pleasure.
Soon I will return to aquaint myself.

I will await the return...

Soon...is a relative statement...