I would tell her that it is disrespectful to not let me know when and what you are doing. I need to be able to contact you if something happens with the kids, etc. Also, I don't want to sit and worry about you (I'm a horrible chronic worrier and always assume someone has been murdered or in a car accident).
Its just funny because I feel like everything I would say before I got to this forum and read most of DB would completely screw me over and make the situation worse.
My plan:
Talk about separation agreement, talking about moving day...mention boxes if needed. I am sure at some point she will try to talk about why she is doing this and how hurt she is etc. I will just tell her that I understand why she is doing what she is doing, tell her I support her, and if she is happier this way then that is what matters.
As a side note, I would seriously consider changing your member name here. Don't reflect how you are now, let it be a reflection of how you are going to be. Make that a goal. Sometimes that little change can start empowering you.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
I hear you. It's so hard. For the last 6 months, my husband has been saying on & off that he is going to move out. We started reading Divorce Remedy Jan 2015. He stopped trying, we both stopped reading. Now August 2016, we are back in the same place, maybe worse. I'm sad and lonely but I know I have to take care of me and focus on me. It's just hard. My heart is heavy but I can't make him do/want anything including me.
Talk about separation agreement, talking about moving day...mention boxes if needed. I am sure at some point she will try to talk about why she is doing this and how hurt she is etc. I will just tell her that I understand why she is doing what she is doing, tell her I support her, and if she is happier this way then that is what matters.
How about...
That you are trying to understand what she is going through...
Because, in reality, you really don't understand...
It's like if I told you that there was a shidtload of water in the ocean, you would agree, yet neither of us knows exactly how much water is in the ocean....
The depths of her are still unknown to her, how could you possibly know....
???
On boundaries....
I want you to also understand that boundaries are good for you. Setting them lets another person know what you are willing to tolerate, and what you aren't willing to tolerate.
However...
Pick your battles wisely. Just because you can, doesn't always mean that you should...
Give yourself time, understand the need, or lack of...
And ask yourself if that is really the hill that you are willing to die on....
I just went through your old sitch and into the new. You and I have this in common from your first post:
"My wife is a runner. Meaning, she has a tendency to take off when things get too difficult. She throws in the towel. Either it is too intense or scary for her or she just gets impatient."
More in common that that w/ our WW's but this stood our like a stubbed toe. You have attracted some old guard for wing men, so I am not going to offer much just yet. I did want to say though...that quote above, its powerful history on a person. I'm here, if you need, I will be reading, call out if required.
"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies. BD: Feb '16 D: Mar '17 Piecing: Putting the self back together was my piecing. S6
So we had the chat. Mostly biz about schedules and what she is taking to her apartment. She will be moving between labor day and the weekend after.
I stuck to supportive statements, validating statements, etc. Said I was trying to understand what she is doing...etc.
I didnt cry. I didnt break down. Quite stoic if you ask me. I brought boxes from work. She doesn't want me to help her move.
Ummm, not much else? She broke down a couple times asking me why I never listened to her or understood how painful it was to be with me. Also said she needs to find herself.
She is not reachable right now but I feel like I planted the seed. My therpist thinks she is going to crash and burn eventually and maybe realize that this wasn't an unfixable situation.
I have no expectations and if she never comes back well then I did what I could on my side. No regrets?
For me, there will always be regrets, but at the same time, I could not be the person of extreme confidence and badassness I am today had I not had the opportunity to regret. And I am joking above - we are who we are because of what we experience. You stay here, you participate, you read, you listen, you offer - you become a better you. Look GR8TDAD, I am still busted, but I am way better than I was and I am not as good as I will be. That is worth something. So, no regrets!is more like it.
Also, to be more exact. Don't help her move. She said she does not want it. Listen. No more boxes, tape, packing, etc. My W and I moved out..I was not there. Had to work, have plans, have errands. make an appointment...just dont be there.
"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies. BD: Feb '16 D: Mar '17 Piecing: Putting the self back together was my piecing. S6
Thanks. Today I learned that the new apartment is in the same complex as the OM. I read back thru texts she sent right before this all happened. She was just flat out lying to me about everything.
She is alienating everyone who cares about her with all of this. Just rough this morning.
You'll make it through. I agree with CT1118 - don't be around. Take the kids and try to have a fun day.
The one caution that I will make is to not make the mistake I did. Well - I've made lots of mistakes - try to avoid this particular one. My W asked what she could take - I shrugged and said that the only thing I cared about being in the house was her and that none of the rest mattered. I did say that I wanted the MBR furniture left and my rocking chair.
Well - some of the MBR furniture left as did a "lot" of other stuff (but not my rocking chair). I joked to friends that I could dance naked in the living room without hurting myself. Perhaps you will need to do what some companies do when moving. You each get a roll of coloured stickers and put them on what you want. If you disagree then you'll have to work it out. One other thing that I wish I'd done was to do a "before move" inventory with the camera on my phone. I do have one from a few years ago that I did for insurance purposes though.
Those marital assets that your W removes will need to be taken into account if you get to the point where there is a formal S agreement and division of assets.
This is going to be a very very tough week or two. Stay strong and stay great.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Gr8TDAD- "My wife is a runner. Meaning, she has a tendency to take off when things get too difficult. She throws in the towel. Either it is too intense or scary for her or she just gets impatient."
Yep mine too... nice name change by the way. It took me a few to connect the dots.
I got a few weeks notice before my WW moved out (via a text message before a huge meeting at work... she couldn't have waited 2 hrs.. thank you very much). I avoided her like the plague in the interim which actually worked out quite well for my sanity. I would try to stay as busy as possible, definitely don't help her move out. Funny my experience was the opposite of Andrew's. I also said I didn't care what she took (which was a mistake!) and she barely took anything.
The one piece of good news I can give you is that for me... the out of house sep has been a much better experience than in house. Stay strong!
I guess I just need to learn that are good days and there are bad days and those days in between. I think today is in between. I dont know that even if she wanted to come back, that it would work out. I feel as if she may never truly allow herself to be happy and loved.
Came home after wife left (she spent the morning packing) to find my dog having what looked like seizures. Rushed her to the vet where labs and xrays came back fine but they are keeping her overnight on fluids and doing some more tests. Today was already difficult with the W packing. Found a keepsake I had crafted for her a few years back...she shoved it in the closet. Obviously she is not taking with. My brother in law is being wonderfully supportive in all this and spent the morning with me and the kids running errands as his wife is out of town caring for a sick parent. He is very disappointed in his sister and despite being so close with her, does not agree at all. He also made sense when he said that she won't look to him for advice because she only wants to hear from people who support her decision.
First off, sorry to hear about your pup. I hope it's doing better..
Secondly....remember that 2X4 thing ?
Originally Posted By: GR8TDAD
She asked how the dog was when she got home just now. Told her i didnt hear her and didnt care.
Probably the wrong reaction but I am just so angry today.
This to me, is controlling, and manipulative. It also doesn't play well into what you are trying to do....
It is a purely emotional REACTION, rather than a response....
Your goal (your words), is that you want to do better.
To do better, you need to BE better, in all aspects.
The "but" in your above statement meant that you knew better, yet still CHOSE to react with more of the same 'ol Great....
In that one sentence, you CHOSE to show her that you aren't working to change, and that you aren't willing to do anything differently than you have in the past...
I agree that this situation is sad. Every single one on this board is sad.
But I caution you about your opinion of it being "unnecessary". From where you sit, of course, thats your opinion. I think my sitch was unnecessary. I imagine every poster here believes that their sitch wasnt necessary. But in the eyes of our spouses or ex-spouses, it's the only way they can see things moving. So to them it is totally necessary.
How can you work to better empathize and understand her needs?
I am having a very hard time with this. The dog situation was the icing on the cake yesterday. Her stuff is all getting loaded up into the garage for moving. She had the audacity to leave "intimacy toys" she had recently purchased for us to use together, on my side of the bed as if I wanted them...those got chucked right back into her room.
I looked at old texts from a few days before this all started happening and it was just lies lies lies. I feel extreme anger towards her and I don't know how to quell it.
She is leaving for trivial reasons. Things that could easily be worked on. She is breaking up our family to appease her own convoluted fantasy needs. It is hard to not be angry and I am not great at hiding it by any means.
I told her that I didn't care to speak with her unless it was regarding business (kids, money). I don't want to make small talk. This morning I just told her I didn't know how Corky was doing (dog) and that she was getting more tests done. I am terrified that my dog got nicotine poisoning from the W being irresponsible with ecig juice while she was packing yesterday.
I don't know if my dog made it through the night or not. I will find out soon when the vet calls.
I looked at old texts from a few days before this all started happening and it was just lies lies lies. I feel extreme anger towards her and I don't know how to quell it.
She is leaving for trivial reasons. Things that could easily be worked on. She is breaking up our family to appease her own convoluted fantasy needs. It is hard to not be angry and I am not great at hiding it by any means.
Welcome to the anger phase ???
According to YOU, her reasons are trivial...
According to YOU...things could be easily worked out.
Wait, worked out using YOUR fix ?
Or HER fix for the problems ??
Thing is...she IS working things out.
Her way, her time, her pace...
She has feel comfortable inside of her own skin in order to be in any relationship.
Thing is...YOU have to be comfortable inside of YOUR skin to be in any relationship....
Do you really think that EITHER of you are ready for that right here, right now ???
You have things to work on (by your own admission)....
So work on them, and you. Be so busy working on them that anything that she does is secondary...
Did I mention that all WA's lie ????
Oh yeah....that's all part of that " don't believe what you hear" thing....
Originally Posted By: Great
I told her that I didn't care to speak with her unless it was regarding business (kids, money). I don't want to make small talk. This morning I just told her I didn't know how Corky was doing (dog) and that she was getting more tests done. I am terrified that my dog got nicotine poisoning from the W being irresponsible with ecig juice while she was packing yesterday.
I don't know if my dog made it through the night or not. I will find out soon when the vet calls.
Ohhh the anger phase. Lovely. I will try to work on focusing on myself. Thank you for the reminder.
I worry that she will never be ok with herself. Not that it is really any of my concern at this point, but her pattern of destruction is undeniable. So much trauma from her past that she doesn't seem to be able to let go of, or at least work through in order to be stable.
Her father was very much like this...he married 7 times and hurt a lot of people over the years. But unfortunately, I also see a lot of her mother in her at this point...which is a very scary thing.
I worry that she will never be ok with herself. Not that it is really any of my concern at this point, but her pattern of destruction is undeniable. So much trauma from her past that she doesn't seem to be able to let go of, or at least work through in order to be stable.
Worry, is okay...
Dwell ? Isn't okay...
So if I were to ask you, if you really WANTED to be, or thought that being in a relationship, was the BEST thing for her right now...
What would you say ???
We often times, hurt the ones we love the most....the most...
I think staying in the relationship and working together as a team to solve these issues would be best. But alas, I think more clearly for a few moments and I do see her needing to "find herself".
However, I then come to the realization that she probably isn't going to find herself, but rather distract herself with a new relationship, work, social stuff.
I need to find my happy place in my mind for today.
So I managed to apologize for being short with the wife last night. I blame it on being worried about the dog. She said she totally understood. She's trying to have her brother help her move on Tuesday and on Thursday morning next week we have an appointment as a family with a therapist so we can talk about what is going on with our little ones.
W is seemingly starting to get overwhelmed by the amount of work she is facing and the lack of money. Jsut wait until she doesn't see the kids for 5 days straight.
Her brother is being as inflexible as he can with helping her move.
Be very careful in how you present what is happening with your kids. Is this meeting with the therapist that your wife is seeing?
Michele has written an article about what and how to tell the kids about potential divorce. Please email me and I will be happy to send you the link.
You also mentioned on your previous thread that you are wanting to speak with a DB Coach. Please call me at 303-444-7004 and we can discuss options including a discount.
Regards,
Cristy Resource Coordinator The Divorce Busting Center 303-444-7004 cristy@divorcebusting.com
A Divorce Busting Coach can help you save your marriage, even when your spouse wants out.
Email virginia@divorcebusting.com or 303-444-7004 for more information or to get started right away.
I see what you are getting at. Right now the biggest barriers are time, money, kids.
I have a lot of stuff I want to get going on but I am taking on the majority of the child rearing responsibilities at this time. Kids are 2 and 3 so it is kind of difficult to do much when I have them. I try to spend time outside with the chickens and in the garden after the kids go to bed, but by that time I am so exhausted I just fill up water and feed and head inside to watch TV...as it is usually getting dark anyway. I do however, once all her crap is out (Saturday I hope) clean up the garage and organize it better. I have some fast frame kits coming to build sheds/livestock shelters because I am going to expand my little farm that she harassed me about nonstop.
All of my stuff I want to learn really involves my love of homesteading and continuing my goal of being mostly self sufficient...
But I will work on making a bucket list.
Today, in terms of emotions and thoughts, has actually been the best day since the BD 4 weeks ago. I am feeling a sense of relief that she is moving out. I guess that sounds wrong, but I am also really enjoying the idea of not having a slob living with me that I have to go around and clean up after (besides my children...who I am training quite well)...and I am by no means a neat freak, but there is a certain level of basic cleanliness that is needed for me to feel comfortable and calm in my environment. She has never been willing to meet me halfway on that.
I am also enjoying the idea of being able to expand my microfarm and add some goats and guinea fowl. She said NO to both.
Also, thinking about how much less money (once debt is paid) I am going to have to shell out to support her career in hair, her car payment, HEALTH INSURANCE!! OMG, $350 a month for her - I am free through my employer.
I am now starting to think what exactly I found to be so terrific about her. Yes, we had fun together...but there has been a ton of turmoil in this relationship. I am nowhere near without blame...but as DB says, PERSON A does this, PERSON B reacts, PERSON A reacts to that, PERSON B reacts to that reaction and so on...
She brought a ton of baggage into the relationship and now that I look back, I was soooo stupid to propose as quickly as I did. I don't regret it however, because it led to us getting these kids and I wouldn't change that for the world.
While I am feeling good about the move out...I am still convinced we could have worked through our issues without all of this mess - but nothing I can do now and I cannot control her thoughts or actions. JUST ME!!! Thank you for all the advice so far. I am not going anywhere, just thankful I found this place.
I might try to get back into jiu jitsu... Im a bit of a hobby addict. Something the W always bugged me about. I would love to get some more time out fishing, but TIME is something I don't have a lot of. Would like to get out to go shooting more often, ride my quad, explore the area i moved into a year ago...
OK I've decided I'm going to start basic. I have a number of books downloaded besides my purchased DB and DR paperbacks.
Instead of plopping down in front of the TV in the evening after farm chores, I am going to spend an hour or two reading all of these "self-help" books.
I would say that is a nice 180 from my usual stuff?
Just remember not to read only self help books. We can really get ourselves stuck in the situation very easily...
I have read your threads and I have to say that you seem pretty solid emotionally considering the things you have transitioned through in your life.
I do have a few questions.
Does you being transgender or your W identifing as "queer" (I think that is what you said) really have a lot of bearing on this situation?
I will tell you that I googled cisgender and queer and I don't really think I have a great grasp on the definitions.
I am by no means trying to be judgemental, I watched one of my son's friends, come out to his parents in his early teens and they threw him out. I could never understand how a parent could do that (even if they might prefer the situation be different).
I guess what I am saying is that for me, especially after watching what I watched, a person is a person, regardless of all of that. So if it is important information, could you please help me understand it better?
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
I am by no means offended! Honestly, I think all the labels are overdone anyway...but we have to be able to describe ourselves to others as most people think in labels to begin with.
Cisgender is apparently the politically correct term for "biological"...so "cisgender male" is equal to designated male at birth, not intersex, and not transgender female (male to female). Haha...reading back that is so confusing.
I am not cisgender male. I am transgender male. I started transition nearly 10 years ago and it was the best change I could have ever made. I NEVER felt like a girl and my body was always weird to me.
As far as "queer" goes: it is an umbrella term that the LGBTIAQ (TOO MUCH ACRONYM) has reclaimed in order to remove the negative connotation that was previously associated with it.
Kind of like African Americans using N**ga as a term of endearment between one another and in other ways as well.
So Queer is just like this umbrella term that some people prefer to use, rather than identify as a more specific label like bisexual, gay, lesbian, pan, poly, etc.
I just hate all of that stuff. If we want to be more accepted, then why do we go out of our way to make all of this MORE CONFUSING for those whom we are seeking acceptance?
Yes I have a pretty level head. I think like any other guy. I have more insight into the female psyche, but actually a lot of that has been lost over the past decade lol. I probably don't have as much confidence as the typical American man as a result of being raised female, but that could also just be my overall personality. I have always had very supportive and loving parents - despite being very conservative. They really are wonderful people and very saddened by all of this. Not sure what I would do without them right now. Between them and my brother in law I feel like I have been doing pretty well throughout this situation.
What do you mean by not reading only self help books?
Blue Highways is a great book if you're looking. Written by a guy essentially GALing his way out of a failed marriage by traveling the US in a huge circle using primarily only rural/scenic byways, i.e., the "blue" highways on the old maps. I'm reading it now, and it's quite good, and he's really inspiring for a LBS. IMHO.
Me: 46 W: 44 Married: 17 Together 21 D13; S10 BD: 03.03.15 (Not attracted to you) Almost 2 years trying, alone, to save marriage Status now: Divorced (effective 06.13.17)
Well - I am REALLY good at reading. English has always been my strength. However, my ADD and wandering mind prevents me from getting much enjoyment out of it. I can sit and read a whole chapter, only to discover that I have not a clue what I just read.
I don't enjoy fiction at all. The only fiction I have read in the last 17 years is the Hunger Games Trilogy...and only because a friend recommended it.
W is continually pawning the kids off on me when she said she would be taking them. I don't mind as I love being with them...yes I would like some time to myself, but I think right now I really need to be there for them - and they need to be there for me...they give me strength in all this. I cannot help but feel really bad for them as I can see their mom quickly detaching from them. She says they are her life but I am more inclined to believe that she would rather be like she was with her nephews years ago...a few hours and then hand them over. I don't think she has an interest in being a mommy right now...maybe not ever again. I feel bad for my kids.
My parents say that within 6 months she probably won't see them more than once every couple weeks and that within 2-3 years they probably won't really have an interest in seeing her.
Feeling super sad about that...but I am anxious for her to move on Saturday and be able to come home to a house that isn't a disaster every day.
I know your parents have been a great support to you through this.
However, they don't have a crystal ball to be able to tell the future anymore than I do. Although I wish I did.
This kind of projection will just make your situation harder.
Focus on today and don't worry about tomorrow. Or next month or next year. That is how you get through this.
A question...you keep going on about the housekeeping stuff and I believe you said it was something that you developed resentment about.
Resentment erodes our feelings over time, like the waves erode the beaches. If you don't do anything to change it, eventually you are left with a little pile of sand instead of the beautiful beach you once had.
While at this point you don't forsee her coming back, you never know what the future holds. I would suggest that for whatever relationship you have in the future, you learn how to let go of resentments, how to reverse the process as it's happening, and how to communicate and work cooperatively...
How did you communicate with her about your expectations/desires about housework?
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
However, they don't have a crystal ball to be able to tell the future anymore than I do. Although I wish I did.
This kind of projection will just make your situation harder.
I agree and I told them last night that I have to let go and move on. If I sit and stew with anger it will make everything worse and drive me nuts and definitely leak out on the kids.
Originally Posted By: cat04
While at this point you don't forsee her coming back, you never know what the future holds. I would suggest that for whatever relationship you have in the future, you learn how to let go of resentments, how to reverse the process as it's happening, and how to communicate and work cooperatively...
How did you communicate with her about your expectations/desires about housework?
You know, at first I was passive aggressive. Then I became more naggy. After a while, I let a HELL of a lot of things go and got to the point where I was just begging for her to put my stuff back if she used it and try to maintain some sort of order in the kitchen and living room. I didn't complain about our bedroom, bathroom, kids room, playroom, dining room, or even the front and back yards that got littered with toys and snack wrappers, etc.
I tried many approaches, including silently modeling for her, saying nothing and just cleaning constantly. Sometimes she would just watch me walk around and pick up her stuff and the clutter while she sat on the couch watching her iPad. Any time I have said anything in the past 3 months she has told me I'm controlling and a nitpicker. Yes, perhaps in the past I nitpicked about stupid stuff because I was used to living alone and having things a certain way. I got over that and learned to handle things being out of my preferred organization style. I am NOT a neat freak. I know I'm not. I leave crap all over the place on some days. But not in common areas where most of the time of the family is spent (living room, kitchen). As I said earlier in my thread, she brought baggage into the relationship. Her mother would force her to clean the house and when it wasn't done to standard, she would beat the crap out of her. I feel like I became an enemy, like her mother, that she needed to rebel against.
So YES, I have built up resentment. I have found this behavior to be disrespectful and inconsiderate. It got progressively worse over the last 2 years since the kids came around.
I know I have a lot to work on. While I am not malicious or purposely manipulative, I think sometimes what I say or do comes across that way. I never mean for it to - just seems like that is the way she has always taken it (probably due to being with so many people like that in the past, as well as her mother).
I can only hope that she does her inner soul searching during this time and at least realizes the importance of her children. This really is what her father would do...I don't think he liked being tied down for very long so he would figure out a reason to bail.... he married 7 times.
I shouldn't be analyzing any of this except for my own personal reflecting, but it is really difficult. I look back at how much of a stable and safe life I gave her and I can't see why anyone who was in their right mind would want to leave just because they didn't feel "listened to".
Again, I am barking up the wrong tree here. Just venting.
Meh. OM on my end is just some lame dou*chbag trying to get laid. I could care less about him. Now if he gets involved with my children, well that is a different story.
W moves tomorrow. She continues to interact with me with a chip on her shoulder - quick to anger...etc. I am assuming that is going to dissipate once she is gone for a while and has time to cool off. I think she is still just using anger towards me to justify what she is doing. I certainly hope her serotonin levels out after a while and she starts thinking more clearly.
Now I have a question for you guys - my brother in law would really like me to help him move her stuff. I offered to help her a couple weeks ago, but she said she didn't want my help. I am not too keen on helping but I am wondering if it would have any benefit in regards to the LRT I am using right now.
Well last night was her last night here and she just left to take a load of stuff over to her new place and then go to work. She is incredibly unpleasant with me even though I am completely neutral and completely Pleasant with her nobody that is currently stable in their mind could possibly think that I am being unpleasant. She needs a lot of help. And while I work on myself she just really has a lot to work on herself too
I remember the day my W moved out. She was very irriatable and the mood swings were unreal. From angry to a mess of tears in seconds back to angry. It was one of the hardest things I have ever been through saying goodbye to the woman I love. And i imagine it isn't easy for you either.
Everyone here preaches time. Give it time, you need time, she needs time. And I am just going to agree with them. Time is needed, the crappy part is no knows how much time and that's what sticks in your head. How long. It's different for everyone.
Our W like most of our S here need some kind of help however it's not our place to tell them. This is their journey and at some point they will see and hopefully seek the help they need.
Sometimes it may seem like she is handling this so well and it is easy, my advice is be yourself and wait. There may come a time where you get a glimpse of where they really are at in their head and it will surprise you. When that time comes you have to continue to be yourself,
You sound like you are handling today well so far and I know it isn't a easy day to handle. I was a mess no matter how hard I tried to keep composed.
Keep on keepin on friend
The person that you will spend the most time with in your life is yourself, so make yourself as interesting as possible.
Thank you! The encouragement is appreciated. I got pretty drunk last night not really on purpose I just kept drinking my IPAs and it caught up with me quicker than I was expecting so I think I was slightly hungover this morning and since alcohol is a depressant and kind of messed me up but after it wore off actually I was feeling pretty good and some relief. Spent the evening cleaning the kitchen up really nicely and fixing up the dining room where she's been packing all her boxes. I'm looking forward to having a cleaner house. I also spoke with a good buddy of mine and he is telling me that is a very bad idea to ever take her back because this pattern of behavior has been evident for many years with her and if she hasn't figured it out by this age she's probably not going to change anytime soon
Well, I got some goats. They are boys - just for eating weeds. Of course they got out yesterday evening and decided to go for a leisurely stroll. Luckily they ended up back at my house (I didn't even know they had left) and I was able to contain them again.
W went to Battle Mountain, NV to teach her first class for the independent artistic color educator thing. She will be back in town later this evening.
She calls and wants to talk to the kids but they basically just say Hi and go back to what they are doing...they don't seem particularly excited to talk to her. They don't ask about her much either. But when she does call, they seem to start acting out shortly after the call and then return to happy selves again.
I am still enjoying not having to run around cleaning up after W. I am enjoying the peace and even the kids are much better behaved when she is not around. I am noticing how much I compromised my comfort in terms of cleanliness and organization just so she wouldn't be so angry when I requested things here and there. I really do need a somewhat organized environment to keep my ADD brain from exploding. Perhaps that is why I was so irritable so much of the time? Also not being able to express those feelings for fear of a fight caused me to build up resentment.
I am doing really well on eating healthy. Even to the point where I ate some pizza the other night and instantly regretted it. I felt bloated and lethargic for the rest of the evening. I am mostly focusing on eating veggies, whole grains like quinoa, beans, lots of eggs (since I have chickens), and cheese (can't give up cheese, NOOOO WAY!). I haven't indulged in adult beverages since Friday night - just not feeling like I want to drink much over the weekend.
I am continuing to look back in the relationship and see that she was right about one thing - it was unhealthy, the way we interacted. And again, while I have played my part in all of this - I really can see that she was angry this whole time and projected it onto me and our relationship, which of course caused me to fight back and/or defend myself. I mean, what considerate and respectful person tells their spouse that they are a control freak and nitpicking when they ask for a little more help around the house?
I am continuing to work towards detaching, but I feel like I have done a pretty damn good job of it already. The fact that I am not super depressed, feeling needy like I need to text or call is something I wouldn't have expected this early on. I am even ignoring some of her calls and texts. I just don't want to interact with her at all. I am too focused on the kids and getting my home into a state that I feel is relaxing and safe.
I suppose I do still love her, but I do not love the person she has become. I love the parts that made me want to marry her...but I just don't see those parts anymore. I hope she can work through the issues that create so much of her unhappiness in life because I honestly only wish her the best.
I really feel like I should be more upset about the situation right now but I feel free and at peace. I'm now starting to think that this relationship was super messed up and I never admitted it to myself. Can anybody help me out with these feelings? Is this normal am I going to end up in a fetal position in a month or two is this part of the grieving process I'm just not sure what to think right now since I'm really not that upset and I feel like just hanging out with my well behaved kids and enjoying my nice clean house is something I haven't had the chance to do much of since she's been so angry for so long.
"I'm now starting to think that this relationship was super messed up and I never admitted it to myself."
That's perfectly natural. From the amount of negativity coming from the WAS, it's easy to doubt that what you thought was great was really bad. Don't believe it. We all have the same doubts going through this. Don't forget what your WAS has.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
Yesterday was our therapy session with the kids to talk about the change. At 2 and 3 yrs old, it kind of went over their heads for the most part. That only took a few minutes and then the therapist kind of probed into the relationship a little bit and suggested (at my request) co-parenting sessions on occasion. W agreed at that time but said she did NOT want to talk about the relationship. She was her now usual nasty self, being sarcastic, telling half truths during the session, etc.
Later in the evening, she told me that she changed her mind and didn't want to see that therapist because she felt like she was "too clinical" and didn't "honor her truth". This is jargon the W gets from her therapist, who is a total hippy dippy and anti-diagnosis and anti-medication. I feel like the W seeing this therapist make her more angry and self-centered in this whole thing. Of course, nothing I can do about that. She simply refuses to see another therapist than the one she is with now. I finally texted her in the evening and said she needed to be more civil with me...at least in front of the kids and that it isn't fair to them if one of us can't spend a holiday or bday with them just because we can't get along.
During therapy I was asked why I thought the kids being with me more was a good idea and I stupidly spouted off about how I think W is emotionally unstable and not thinking clearly at this time. Whoops. OH WELL.
Kids spent their first night at mommys house and it was very hard for me to hand them over and go home to an empty house. It is a nice break for a couple days but I still hate the fact that they are not sleeping in their beds and I miss them a lot.
I also paid the attorney yesterday and will be getting the separation agreement drafted shortly. After getting through the courts we are looking at about a month until it is finalized.
That is where I am at right now. Lots of mixed feelings - anger, sadness, hopelessness but happiness (that I don't have to deal with her immature emotional attitude throughout the day), worry that my kids will want to be with her more as they get older (probably unlikely but a HUGE FEAR of mine), uncertainty about the future. You see, being transgender, it is difficult to find a woman that shares my values that is also OK with being with a transman. I have fairly traditional values in some aspects - I am a die hard libertarian - I love my guns, prepping, homesteading, outdoor stuff, etc. Seems like a lot of the women out there that would consider me as a partner are more city girls with more progressive values like the W and don't have any interest in those things. Again, I am just worrying about the future for which I have know advance knowledge of. I don't HAVE to be with someone, but I like the idea of sharing a life with someone else. I thought that is what I had with W - but apparently not.
Anyway - just blabbering, journaling. I hope that in the future I can come back to all that I have written and get some perspective on things.
Picked up the kids this morning to go to soccer. They were so happy to see me! I was worried about that but all was well. Apparently W brought over the OM to meet them. That really boils my blood. Not even more than a week goes by and she's already introducing my children to this loser guy.
Well, the info for the attorney has been submitted. Now she will draft the agreement, W and I will sign, and then wait for the court to stamp it. Not much else to report at this time.
I guess I should add that she was insulting to me this morning when I texted to double check on the Wednesday pick up schedule. Told me that once again I wasn't paying attention. She also felt that when I mentioned I knew she introduced the OM to the kids it was insulting to her...
This is the second week that we are doing the new schedule with the kids. It is a nice break as I said before, but so hard for them to be away at night. Today I am getting started on building a goat pen for these jacka$$ goats and for the dairy girls that are coming in a couple months.
I have a ton of projects to work on and my ADD makes it overwhelming to think about...plus I get distracted.
She picked up the kids late last night on account of having to work overtime. Also, she didn't call once whent hey were away...she had been doing that before.
So new update. I'm still doing very well for myself in terms of emotional stability. Still not missing her.
Saturday morning I picked up the kids and they were like zombies. Especially my little girl. W said she thought maybe Madison was getting sick. I took them to soccer and then we went straight home where both kids took a 4 hour nap. My son doesn't even take naps anymore and he was out like a light. Prior to the nap I attempted to feed them lunch, but they were both so tired they were falling apart having meltdowns over nothing. I kept it chill for the rest of the day and they still both zonked out at bedtime. Yesterday morning they were happy as could be, no indication of illness, etc. My son told me that the OM had spent the night. This still makes me so angry I can't even begin to explain it. My guess is that W kept them up very late. She also didn't bathe them and I know she was out in Fernley on Friday (1 hr away) hanging out with this lesbian white trash chick that I suspected her of fooling around with a few months ago. I am angered by the company that my W is keeping around my kids. The OM is pretty White trash as well.
Then last night I get a message on facebook from a transguy acquaintance whom I have never met, just know on facebook because he is local and has kids too. Well, turns out he and my W were texting about 8 months ago after she answered his craigslist ad for NSA casual encounters. W had no idea that I knew him and she had told him we were in an open relationship at the time (which we were not) and that she wanted a friend to play with, so he didn't think anything of it. But he says nothing happened as he decided he didn't want to cheat on his wife. He apologized profusely - I told him no worries on his end, but thanks for letting me know.
At this time, I am asking the lawyer to make changes that instead of a separation, we go straight to divorce. I feel like this woman is broken and there is no way I am going to have any effect in fixing her. She doesn't realize that she is broken, nor does she want to.
I know that this is not the philosophy of this forum - but I need to do what is right for my kids and my own well-being. This pattern of behavior of hers will not change until she decides to change it and I can't sit around and wait while she has a little adventure, doesn't figure herself out, and then tries to come back and do the same thing.
I am not giving up - I am giving in. I am giving in to the self-destructive whirlwind she has created. I am letting go and moving on. I have to.
I will be back to update as I am using this as a journal that I can return to at times when I am down or angry.
At this time, I am asking the lawyer to make changes that instead of a separation, we go straight to divorce.
How about instead, you request that the lawyer add in a co-parenting agreement to the separation agreement? This would help define what would be acceptable during time with the children.
If you are divorced, shes still going to do the same antics.
There are a couple of things to think about when you talk with a lawyer. First, my wife and I didn't have a separation agreement so I was able to prevent her from taking my sons when they didn't want to leave me because we weren't divorced and we had no agreement. That worked to my advantage. Second, and this is something I didn't know prior to mediation, I was supposed to be paying child support during separation. Of course, if you have your children 100% of the time, there's no reason to pay child support to your wife.
Given your circumstances, or given your wife's current lifestyle, I wonder if she really cares if she has custody of the children. I'm sure she'll say she wants custody, but if she's not being a good mom, then now may be a good opportunity to make a case against allowing a 50-50 custody agreement.
Apparently there is not much I can do to prevent or stop her from doing whatever she is doing unless it is considered physically or emotionally damaging to the kids.
the agreement is currently 70/30 in favor of me. She acts like she wants more but I know she really doesn't.
Im not talking about custody.
Im talking about PARENTING.
For example, clauses about parenting methods, and notices, and scheduling, and dating, and so on. How to make life as good as possible for the kids going forward.
I see. Well unfortunately she is not willing to compromise on anything and feels she has every right to do whatever she wants so I am not sure co parenting agreement will work.
Well unfortunately she is not willing to compromise on anything and feels she has every right to do whatever she wants so I am not sure co parenting agreement will work.
So it will be like dropping the kids off at the moon 2 days a week and on the sun the other 5 days a week? Thats ludicrous. I get that things wont be identical, but in general, you should have similar concepts in order to do what is BEST FOR THE CHILDREN.
It isnt about you vs. her. It's about THEM.
I would ask your lawyer to draft something. Im guessing they have a standard agreement - I know the one that I used did.
I agree that it's ridiculous for your W to be introducing kids to random guys as "mommy's friend" at that age.
I will say that the agreements are very hard to ENFORCE, but at least you have it out there in writing and you can document the actions against it.
So yesterday over text W asked to see the drafts of divorce papers even though I told her that there were a bunch of adjustments that needed to be made. She still wanted to see. Immediately after looking she starts flipping out about paying child support, etc - even though it said she didn't have to pay she didn't read it right and then was complaining about a bunch of other stuff in the papers. I had CLEARLY told her that they were not the final papers. Such an idiot.
Then I mentioned that this OM has a domestic battery arrest from January, which she already knew about and immediately fired back that it was thrown out in court and I didn't know the story, etc. I told her I didn't want the kids around him and that I would put it in the agreement if necessary. To that she said she wouldn't sign the agreement if it was in there. Funny how this guy is "just a friend" to her, yet she is willing to back out on her end just because I don't want her bringing him around my kids. She also called me controlling and manipulative because of all that. I'm sorry, but I don't care if she dates Charlie Manson at this point. But if the kids are involved, I have EVERY RIGHT to be concerned and state my demands at that point.
She continues to display her inconsistent unstable behaviors in the form of one minute saying she is sorry for hurting me and all of this mess and glad we were together because "we got the kids out of it" but then five minutes later tells my that I am the biggest mistake she has ever made and that I am evil and controlling.
She continues to threaten me with having the courts decide and "this is a 50/50 state and I will get half of everything". Not sure what she is trying to threaten me for since we already have agreed on all the terms of the divorce and are just waiting on the paperwork to be ready for signing.
After all of that yesterday during the day while I was at work, she came to get the kids around 830 and demanded to have a discussion. I told her I was not going to have a discussion with her and did not engage. She escalated her behaviors and started hurling insults and threats while I got the kids buckled into their car seats. I recorded the whole thing. At the end she said she wasn't signing anything and that I was going to have to take her to court.
Fast forward to about 20 minutes later, I rode my quad over to her brother's house and walked in where he was on the phone with her. He was laying into her pretty good about having the other guy over while kids were visiting, defending me for being concerned about the OM and his background, etc. Once he got off the phone, both him and his wife were just talking about how they have never seen her act like this before and she is just being totally insane.
Apparently my son was wailing for me all the way back to her place too - which now makes her think that I am putting things in his head. Not at all. I just actually pay attention to him and spend QUALITY time with him and his sister instead of sticking them on their iPads and sitting on my own electronics. That has been what she does for the past year at least.
Before going home last night, I sent an email showing her all the changes I requested in the papers and told her she needed to calm down and honor her own freakin request for this to go smoothly. She said she felt attacked when I mentioned the OM domestic battery charge and that is why she got angry. So she got angry because I stated the truth? Because I was exercising my right as a parent to be concerned about the company kept around my kids? She then said she actually WOULD sign.
Well I did a full background check and nothing came up. I am guessing it was thrown out in court. But SOMETHING had to have happened for him to get arrested for it...
Well....W signed the divorce papers this morning. I will go in to sign on Monday morning. I feel a sense of relief at this point. I can always pursue more custody later on down the line if I feel it is in the kids' best interest.
My mom said I should celebrate (getting primary physical custody of the kids) and while I am happy about that, not much to celebrate in terms of why it all had to happen.
Again, I know that the philosophy here is to focus on yourself, etc. I will do that for sure. But that doesn't change the fact that my soon to be EX WIFE has some very serious psychological and emotional issues that I honestly believe she will never figure out or at least want to admit. It makes me really sad for her and sad for my kids, because she will never be any sort of stability in their lives. I feel like she is going to just continue the same pattern.
