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Originally Posted By: Pink17
They even say that I have no "balls" to ask XH to take his stuff out of the garage.


Hi Pink17 - I was just passing by and while I don't have anything to offer on your current problem I saw this and it reminded me of something that W used to say that you may want to adopt.

Women have their "balls" right up on their chest where everyone can see them. Do your best to be strong and confident in yourself and your decisions regardless of what others say or think. You need to be true to the true you.


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Hi There,

Thank you Andrew, but the reality is that I really don't know if I ask him to take his stuff out of my garage at this point. There is a side of me that keep hoping he left it there because he is in this MLC mess, but there is a part of me that has pain for having that hope alive. I just don't know.

About the airport ride. Well, it didn't happen. At church it was as usual. I sat on my own and he was there, sitting on his own too.

After the service, he asked to talk to me and walked outside with me because I was leaving. He then told me that he couldn't pick up S16. That he had some things to do and that he would just go to the airport but then go to his place after that.

I said it was fine, that I was planning to get him anyway and that I was also driving S18 to his college afterwards. I started walking to my car, got in and he was there by my door. When I started the car he gave me a check for the kids expenses and I just said thank you, goodbye.

I know it was cold and my reaction was really because I had expectations. All my fault for putting myself in that position.

Then a few minutes later he called and because my phone was on silent, I didn't hear it. Around 5:30pm I checked my phone and had a message from XH saying that he would pick up S16 at the airport and would drop off S18 at his college and that I did not need to worry about because he rearrange things around it.

I can just say that I am not so detached as I tough I was because it bothers me. Should I just understand it is life and move on, or get frustrated because everything is a deal.

I really try my best to just let go, but he always confuse things around and then I need to be in between this kind of events. I have a plan to do something and then it changes as the wind.

I called him and said that he didn't need to do that because I was already planning to, and that S18 wouldn't be going to college very early because he would like to talk to his brother a little bit.

XH said that it was OK and that was my business. Then I lost it, I asked him why he was being so mean and treating me like trash. That two weeks ago he was all friendly and talking about being good friends and then he was mean and cold.

He said that it was not true and that he was just trying to help me. He said: I could never treat you like trash because I like you, I actually love you.

Me - You are going crazy, and the best thing I can do is to keep my distance and give you the gift of my absence.

XH - I do not have any problem being around you, and I do not think it will resolve anything.

Me - It won't be long now, our younger kid has two school years and then I can actually put some miles in between, move somewhere and stop this insanity.

XH - As I told you before it won't solve anything, you will go with yourself and have the same issues. I really think that you should stay here but I won't be an anchor if you want to move somewhere, or get a better job some other city.

Me - Well, you left it clear two years ago when you said you were done, you left and as much as I have hoped, I understand now that this is really what you want and I can just take it the way it is and move on from here.

XH - It's amazing how you will always remember how things ended. You will never remember that you were the one that left much earlier, that for years you didn't love me anymore and was out of the R.

Me - Yes I know all what you have to say, and all what I can do is to buried my guilt inside and live with it until I am dead. I can't change what I did, I see now that I missed many things and was not the best person. I learned so much in these last two years and see very clear that I could have reacted in a different way.

XH - And that is why I told you last week that when you said that if I didn't want to help making the sandwiches for the church, that I did not need to help, it hurt. I felt guilty and I did not like the way you said that and guilty me into doing something. I really know that you didn't mean that, but I did not like the way I felt. And I told you that because I know that in the past I never told you how I felt and I think it was unfair to you, and to both of us. I think that I need to say the way I feel to you and talk about it.

Me - I get it, and actually it is another reason why I need to be away from you, so I do not do or say things that can hurt you again. For so many years I have been hurting you, I do not need to do this again.

XH - You do not hurt me, you do not bother me, I am fine around you. It won't solve the problem to be away.

So, changing the subject, I asked him if he could bring me back the camping tent because I would like to use it in the coming weekend. He paused and then said that it was OK, he would bring it to me Monday night, when he is actually coming to my house to work on some legal paperwork for the church.

When S16 and him arrived at the house from the airport, he came in and then walked to me and gave me a strong hug. Did not say anything, just hugged strong and long. He smiled and said: I will see you tomorrow then.

Now, that I am writing it all. I can see that I have been reacting a lot to everything. I can see that the fact that S18 left for college is still very fresh on me and that I have been feeling it without recognizing it painful.

Lots of work to do on the "Let go" area. It's maybe the hardest thing I ever did. I want to let go and I am afraid to let go. I want to let go and that it won't bother me anymore, but in the same time I have this fear that if I let go then my love for him will disappear.

Yes, I don't make any sense. If the love disappear, then I won't feel bad anymore.

How can I just ignore it all? How can I just state the way it is and do not allow him to make a hell around me? How can I set boundaries?

I feel that I can give it a shot and let him get closer, be open about a possibility and be friends. But then what to do when he messes my stability with his crazy change of plans all the time?

I wish I can be on a gray zone sometimes, but it is very hard for me. I was and I am more like black and white and it does not go well with this XH. His gray zone is very vast and things change all the time. For him, it all make perfect sense, for me it is insanity.

I guess I will go back into my cocoon and let him be. I will disappear for awhile and get my peace of mind back.

This MLC thing is pure torture. I just wish it was not happening.

Pink


Pink17
S22,19 and 16
D:8/5/2015



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Pink,
I'm so sorry you are hurting today. One thing you do need to do is to detach a bit more. When you and your xh are having conversations, etc., you are expecting him to be the same old person he once was. Pink, you and your xh have changed quite a bit since the split. Your expectations are setting you up for disappointment and yes anger.

The relationship conversations need to stop. Rehashing what was or happened in the past, for now need to remain in that box upon on a shelf in your closet. There will come a time when these discussions will take place...but now is not the time. Nothing ever gets resolved when they are taken out of the box and rehashed.

If the stuff in the garage is bugging you and creating more pain, then move the stuff to rental hold and set up the rental in his name, give him the key and advise him that he will be responsible or the rent on the place. At least it would be out of your garage and out of sight for you and you won't be throwing his stuff away. Just because they leave stuff w/us doesn't necessarily mean he's going come back and/or he wants the stuff. Has he made any effort to come get any of the stuff? Generally, they want new stuff because it's more fitting for the new and improved self.

Pink, you might want to re-read the detachment thread and re-read the thread on boundaries. Step back, detach more and keep your expectations at zero. He is not the man you knew pre-crisis. This is a new man who is different in many ways, just as you are. In order to establish a new relationship w/him, you have to start at the beginning and be friends.

I know you can do this...you just have to have faith in yourself and the man upstairs. Sometimes we have nothing to fear but fear itself...let go, let God drive the bus for a bit.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Pink,

Well, you had a relationship talk...

And stop doing that for as long as you can.

The good news is, you actually got some good information here.
Quote:

XH - It's amazing how you will always remember how things ended. You will never remember that you were the one that left much earlier, that for years you didn't love me anymore and was out of the R.


THAT is how he feels. whether or not you believe it to be true...it is true to him. And THAT will have to be addressed if you guys work toward being together.

So...good, information. Bad, relationship talk.

Quote:

but in the same time I have this fear that if I let go then my love for him will disappear.


Like tomorrow? Nah, it won't disappear. Not in this time frame, if it went away quickly I'd be more concerned over you.

Letting go, is to protect you and your sanity, its not that you don't care, you will and do, its not immersing yourself in his drama, his crazy, its getting out of that...

Do you have any crazy neighbors? When they fight are you sort of glad that it doesn't involve you that you're not a part of it? Sort of wish they'd just shut up?

Remember the drama in high school?

Its sort of like that. You protect yourself by not being around it.

I make it sound so easy don't I?
It's not, but it gets easier with time, even with set backs.



Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis

Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans

Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK

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Hi Job, thank you for helping me.

Job, I will read it again and I think that you are very right to ask me to do that. I think that I need to read even the DB and DR again and rehearse Sandy's rules a few times again.

This whole fear mode is my worse enemy. I have a really hard time to process things as they are. The possibility without the expectations. I actually never though I do that all the time in every area of my life.

I really need to stop the R talks. I know and I keep doing like a child. Need to do some grown up myself.

Job, I feel like an Yo-Yo most of the time regarding XH. I feel he loves me, he wants me but then he throw a cold water bucket on me and then I get sad because all that goes away.

I said this before and keep seeing the same pattern with XH. I cool off and put some distance and then he comes around again. I guess I need to understand the pattern and do not let him interfere in my life as much. (easier said then done).

Job, do you think we still have a chance even with all this going on? You saw a lot in these boards and I think you have more knowledge then me. Did you see these kind of situations with the MLCears? Do they really keep distant and then come around to just check out to see if you are still there for them?

It really feels this way many times. It is like he is trying to assure himself that he will mess around and then I will get angry. But in the same time he brings stuff to the plate to show me almost that he is working on us, his terms, his ways. Like the stuff about talking to me about his feelings that he didn't do during our M.

Or like when he says always, that moving away is not the way to solve our problems.

I feel like I want to ask... "So, are we working on our problems?" But I do not want to ask so straight forward like this, but I get all mixed up in the same time.

It's like doing things but never talking about what we are doing for sure.

And that weekend when he came forward saying that he wants to be friends and go out together? He said he would organize it and let me know and then I should just move on like nothing happen?

Sorry Job for my long internet crying. I am just so tired of all this. I do everything else. He just take the kids to eat out, that is his part. I do all the other stuff. Sometimes I feel even disgusted that he is the way he is right now. And he still says that he is very busy... working hard to provide for the family.

I just can't believe so much insanity. The land of MLC is pure hell, it is a long walk on the valley of the shadows, literally.

But again, as I always do, I come here to get some strength to live another day. And as you said, let God drive the bus for a bit.

Funny that our faith actually puts us together all the time. If you look from outside, it is like a fight between good and evil.

Today the Pastor, his wife, my XH and me will be working at my house. I am prepare to make a good and healthy dinner, so we may have a good time and I will try my best to just be and let God do his thing.

I love you Job, you have been with me for a long time in this journey. You are an awesome person!!! God bless you!!!

Thanks,
Pink


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D:8/5/2015



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Pink,
Have you read the thread called the Dance of Pursuit and Distance? I think you need to read it. When you warm up to him and come closer, he then distances himself from you. When you distance yourself from him, he comes closer and the dance continues. Maybe it's time to stay the course and not react to anything he says or does.

What I sense from your postings is that he becomes friendly, says and does things that warm you up a bit. Then your expectations go in full gear and when he dumps the pail of water on your head, you get angry, upset and disappointed. In the future, if he warms up to you, then you continue as you would w/a long lost cousin. Don't react, no more relationship talks and continue as you have been. When he sees that you aren't reacting to his crazy making behavior, he just may start to realize that you are moving forward and he'll need to start thinking about what he needs to do to regain his trust. They need to work hard to regain your trust. If it's too easy, then they'll continue to say and do whatever. He has to earn your trust and respect.

Pink, re-read the threads I suggested, and yes, even the DB and DR books. We all have danced the Pursuit and Distance dance one time or another. Unfortunately, we don't realize what we've been doing until it's pointed out to us. Right now, you are the only one that can change your dance card.

Pink, I know you can do it!


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Quote:

I just can't believe so much insanity. The land of MLC is pure hell, it is a long walk on the valley of the shadows, literally.


I'd rather be the LBS any day of the week than the MLCer.

You'd walk through hell for your husband, right?

Would you walk through hell not knowing if your husband would come back with you?

Originally Posted By: job

Don't react, no more relationship talks and continue as you have been. When he sees that you aren't reacting to his crazy making behavior, he just may start to realize that you are moving forward and he'll need to start thinking about what he needs to do to regain his trust. They need to work hard to regain your trust. If it's too easy, then they'll continue to say and do whatever. He has to earn your trust and respect.


I agree completely.

Job is right you're putting a lot more expectations on these small moments of him being nice.

I think you have a few options. The one that Job suggested above.

1 - Don't react.

2 - You can live in the moment, if you can kill your expectations. If you can enjoy the small temporary happy moment with him, realize that it was just that moment and that tomorrow might not happen, that he might be a turd tomorrow. If you can just enjoy that moment without building on it.
But that is hard, without practice. That takes skill.

3 - Withdraw. It's like don't react, but with more gusto. Don't put yourself out there. Yeah he is being nice, but so what? Don't be as available for him. Pull back.

Job, not trying to step on your toes.



Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis

Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans

Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK

TRUST THE PROCESS - Cadet

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Pink I don't have anything spectacular to add, Job and Jack3Beans gave amazing replies. However I just wanted to say that reading your latest posts I feel like I'm reading something that I wrote. I feel the same way about my H, clutching at straws instead of keeping my expectations low, and trying so hard to stay dark. I'm on week two of minimum contact and it is killing me. However I'm using the time to reflect on my issues and the part they played in my H's anger, MLC, and even his EA with my friend. Like you, I would do anything to put this hellish period behind me. I know we still have a long way to go though.

Jack3Beans, funny you mentioned that you would prefer being the LBS than the MLCer. I was thinking the same a couple of days ago. How horrible it must be going though a MLC and rewriting history and becoming a selfish person that cares for no one but themselves. No sorry, not for me. As a LBS I got the opportunity to review my life and grow and improve. I can show my kids how to fight and hopefully I can keep learning about myself and life and H every day. H is in his own world, deep in his fog.


"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"

“There is freedom waiting for you,
On the breezes of the sky,
And you ask "What if I fall?"
Oh but my darling,
What if you fly?”

-Erin Hanson





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I'm right there w/Jack...I'd rather be the LBS than the MLCer. As the LBS, sure there is pain, hurt, anger and disappointment, but you still face whatever comes your way and you work through it, not around it. The MLC skirts any and all responsibilities and uses any all different distractions to keep their mind busy and focused elsewhere. Just because we do not see the open wounds, bruises, scars, etc., it doesn't mean that they aren't hurting inside.

Jack, you aren't stepping on my toes. I'm glad you are back and in full swing!


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Hello Job, Jack and Esame,

Thank you so much for all the amazing advices you give me. Being inside of the MLCer turmoil is something out of this world.

So, after the whole mix up, XH gets home w/S16. I was sitting on the coach reading some papers and S18 was doing some homework. He walked to me and hugged me for a few minutes without a word. I did not say anything and just put my hand on him. Did not hug him.

Then I greeted S16 and XH said he was leaving. I just said goodbye with a little smile and said drive safe.

Monday, he texted me that he would be at S16 school when he would drop his football gear and talk to his coach. XH said he wanted to be there for the hard talk, at least outside so S16 would feel better.

I texted back and wrote:
"They told me about the plans and I already washed all the football gear. I appreciate you will be there for S16.
And I appreciate you. The way you are coming forward and making some things important. It is really nice to see you supporting the kids. They tell me all the time that the old dad would do "X" but the new dad is much better because he does "Z".
I have no words to express my gratitude for the man you are now.
Actually, I wish I wouldn't see all this change, but it is there and I feel like I need to tell you that you are a better man, a better father. Congrats!!!"

I know I may get a bunch of 2x4s on my head, but XH always says that I didn't admire him, I wasn't proud of him. I felt I should say something for the fact that I see he is trying to change some of the old. That he can be busy at work, but still make some time to support his family. Something he didn't before.

As amazing as life is. Monday night my Pastor, his wife and XH came to the house to resolve some church legal paperwork that actually I was the one driving the Pastor crazy about it.

I was making dinner and XH arrived a little earlier. He gave me the camping tent that I asked for and didn't question why I need it. He was happy, smiling and being really nice. I gave him the paperwork we would be working on. He started talking and I was very pleasant and polite.

We did some of the paperwork and I noticed that XH was pushing for another meeting some other time. Then he said with all the words that he thinks we won't be able to do all what needs to be done in one day, that we probably need to meet a few times more.

But then when we started putting dates, he said that he could only Friday night. I didn't say anything and he asked me if that was ok with me. I said that I had some plans already and maybe we could do it on the holiday. Then he said that if I was busy to do the papers, then they could meet by themselves.

He was not trying to be mean and I know it. He was trying to mess with my plan. Then I said that I could move things around and do what I need to do first. Then he said: "It seems that it always happen when you have some plans, I am sorry".

After dinner, I served some desert and coffee. We were all talking at the table. Then eventually we started talking about us, our lives, wounds, etc. The pastor started talking about us and how God has been transforming us.

He said that neither of us are nearly close to what we were when he met us the first time. That God has been cleaning a lot of old wounds and transforming us into new people.

He then said that it will be in God's time, but XH and I will eventually sit and talk about us and our unfinished R. That he knows we care and love each other, but there will be a time when we will forgive and will talk and eventually make our family a unit again.

XH had tears on his face. I did not cry. I just sat there in silence. We both listened to all what the Pastor said and we did not disagreed with him. By the opposite, XH said that he was very right.

So, I guess we had some kind of couple therapy. It was not planned, it just happen.

At the end, they were leaving and I said goodbye to all, nothing special for XH.

Yesterday, I totally forgot that he was picking up S16 to have dinner together. When he knocked the door I was surprised to see him. But, I just said hi and went back to finish my homework because I would be leaving soon.

He approached me and asked if I was doing my homework, I said yes but was really concentrated in my work and didn't talk to him. When he left, he said By Pink, and I just said BY, did not even look at him.

So, I get what you guys said. Keep some distance and go dark a little bit. It is not easy, but I think it is also not hard. I will adjust my attitude and keep my distance even when he is around. It is like he is just another member of the church and is coming to work on some papers.

I love what Job said that they need to work hard to regain your trust. If it is too easy, then they will do whatever.

I agree with that, and it kind of got stuck in my head. This whole thing about feeling I didn't love him, keep him justifying for the betrayal, the abandon, the zero responsibility with his kids.

Besides, pulling myself away from him will definitely gives me some space to rest. I confess that it all makes me very tired.

I will do my best, and I still believe in the process. I think that doing the right thing can at least improve your chances of rescuing the love that was lost somewhere in the turmoil of life itself.

It is still very hard for me to let go that my family broke into pieces. But I can't change that now. It is what it is and I am just feeding pain over pain.

I also wouldn't like to be the MLCer. I see how XH duel in his guilt. Even though I feel he is getting the best of it. Having a life without kids around to drive you crazy, not having any physical work since he does not have much, don't have the kids, no responsibility with school, doctors, and so much more that is involved in a teenager's life.

But I also see that he suffers for not having all this. That he is lonely, trying to feel better and still dealing with so much pain. XH has everything to do whatever with his life, all the space in the world to move on, and yet he is stuck on himself. Yeah, I do not want to be in his shoes.

I need to prepare myself tough, he is noticing that I am not ignoring him, but he has been treated as a neighbor. I still feel sometimes that he has been in this board because he does things like someone is advising him. Oh well, who knows.

I think soon the whole drama will break open again and I need to be strong to stay the course. I am not so broken now. I think I can do this.

Again, thank you so much for all what you did and is doing to help me. It is indeed a valuable gift in my life.

Hugs to all,
Pink


Pink17
S22,19 and 16
D:8/5/2015



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