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Thanks, Andrew!

We'll see what happens next...

I just set up a consultation with a L for first thing Monday morning. I truly hope we don't have to go that route, but I want to be more fully aware of my obligations and rights.


Me: early 40s; W: mid-30s
S: 2.5
T: 7 M: 5
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I'll just echo JRs comments that you appear to have handled it extremely well CA. I've been through similar w/ my WW and haven't handled it remotely as well as you did. I was also shocked by just how much spew came out of her and how much she seemed to enjoy taking shots at me during it. There were times that I looked at her and I'd swear she had a smile on her face. Frightening.

That's great that you've got a consultation w/ a L. I agree w/ AP (as he's the one who pushed me to setup my own) that you need to know your options. Be prepared for your WW to try to misinform you around custody/financial support if she thinks you haven't consulted an L.

Some vets can give better feedback, but I'd offer you stay the course here. Laying some good groundwork for the future. just make sure that whatever you say, you are able/willing to back up.


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Originally Posted By: lt0402
I'll just echo JRs comments that you appear to have handled it extremely well CA. I've been through similar w/ my WW and haven't handled it remotely as well as you did. I was also shocked by just how much spew came out of her and how much she seemed to enjoy taking shots at me during it. There were times that I looked at her and I'd swear she had a smile on her face. Frightening.

That's great that you've got a consultation w/ a L. I agree w/ AP (as he's the one who pushed me to setup my own) that you need to know your options. Be prepared for your WW to try to misinform you around custody/financial support if she thinks you haven't consulted an L.

Some vets can give better feedback, but I'd offer you stay the course here. Laying some good groundwork for the future. just make sure that whatever you say, you are able/willing to back up.


Thanks, lt!

I feel like I certainly made some mistakes, but overall am very proud that I maintained my cool throughout and was very even-tempered. I avoided taking bait from her for the most part, but I did follow up immediately or ask her in a friendly way to restate or clarify a couple of the things she spewed at me at certain points, and when I did, they tended to fall apart.

At one point she tried to trivialize our whole marriage. She said, "you know, when we got married, I just thought it would be something interesting to try, since I had never done it before, and since we'd been living together for so long already, I felt like it wouldn't be any big deal." I reminded her that we'd gotten engaged while we were still dating and hadn't even moved in together yet! We moved in together for the first time three months before we were married. "oh, yeah, right," was her answer. It's like she's rewritten a new narrative for our life together. It feels like Orwellian cognitive dissonance at times...

She absolutely had a smile on her face as she was saying some of the cruel things to me. Honestly it hurt, but at the same time I was in awe to see the fully-fledged WW emerge, like a spiteful mythical creature I had previously only heard rumors about. Very frightening when encountered in person.

I hope things don't end up in filing for D, but I do want to hear from a L as friends and family keep giving me all sorts of half-cocked legal advice and warnings I'm dubious about. Also, I want to have facts straight if W tests to see if I'm full of it.

I am hoping to hear from some of the vets as I definitely need more insight.

Thanks everyone.


Me: early 40s; W: mid-30s
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Not too much has changed but it's worth updating for me to process a bit.

We had MC on Friday, the day after the big tough convo we had that I detailed above. Surprisingly W began by apologizing for her nastiness the night before, but when I turned to look at her and thank her for her apology, she had a sour look on her face and turned to avoid my eyes. So, a half apology, I suppose.

Then she railed against me to the MC that I was controlling and manipulative about the mutual non-dating rule we agreed to before I had moved back in. MC was confused and asked her if she hadn't agreed to it before I moved back in. She said yes but that I was manipulative and controlling. She said this again and again and complained about how unfair marriage was and that she was basically discriminated against and that no one was taking her seriously because she was a woman.

The recurring motif was that she was convinced that I was still holding out hope that we could reconcile. This seems to infuriate her. I validated that I could see how serious she was and that I wasn't thinking about reconciling, but she didn't seem to believe me. This was frustrating and I need to work on this more. I felt a bit defeated even though it's been about a month since I even brought up our marriage or that possibility, but she mentioned that I called her a pet name twice in the last few weeks (I slipped!) and one or two other minor things I said that I didn't even realize! I felt my confidence deflate a bit realizing how every little thing registers with her...

There was a bit more catastrophizing and spewing on her part, but she was much more civil in front of the MC. I was a little less collected in the session, but managed to stay pretty calm and even. It's more challenging in MC for some reason--I think it's because W is allowed to go on and on and then MC suddenly turns to me and says, "so how do you feel after hearing all that?" Well, honestly, I don't want to talk about how I truly feel in front of my WW. I typically said that I was just focusing on doing what I needed to do day-by-day, or if W was twisting something I had said, I was tried to clarify or restate, but it's hard for that to not come across as being argumentative. It's something I need to work on.

End of MC sesh we go our separate ways with minimal acknowledgement. In the past we would walk our together, and up to a couple of weeks ago, W would come up and hug me afterward. That was nice, but it's over now.

That night after work, W texts me to say she's staying overnight at a friends. I tell her that's fine but that we need to swap cars in the morning before she goes back into work so I can take our S to visit relatives out of town. She says okay. Next morning, I txt W a half hour before her shift as she hasn't come by to drop of the car yet. She says that she's sorry but she's running late and can't come by the house to swap; I will need to come to her work and pick it up. I'm pretty ticked off because she's been doing this sort of thing constantly lately. Little things that are inconvenient for me and show how unthoughtful she is lately. She got called into work earlier one morning and didn't tell me until an hour before and I had to change plans, etc.

This time I respond that I'd prefer not to do that as it will inconvenience S and I. She's says she can't come by and I'll just have to go to her work. I don't respond but end up going and swapping cars and going on with our day.

S and I had a lot of fun, going our for lunch together and visiting some relatives and then stopping by some old friends of mine for a play date. It's a a really nice time catching up and S is having a blast.

A few hours into our trip, W texts, "So what's going on today?" ?!? Is she asking about our day? We're all good and buddies now? Later in then evening she txts to say she's leaving work early and asks if S and I are home and if I want her to pick any thing up for me. So two days ago she was cursing me out, the day before calling me manipulative and controlling, and now she's offering to bring me dinner or groceries?! It is bizarre. I tell her S and I are out and will be back in several hours. Mom needs to know where her kid is, but otherwise I do not want to have any communications with this woman!

For the first time in 7 years, I look at her and I am not attracted to her at all. I still carry the pain from the loss of our R, and all the times I felt close to her. It is not hyperbole to say that I have never loved anyone else more than my W and had never been attracted to anyone as much as I was to her. But today I don't feel it.

At this point, if she came to me crying and asking to take her back, I still would, but it wouldn't be easy to do.

Well, I have the afternoon off from daddy duty and am heading out to enjoy the rest of the day. Maybe do to the beach and then grab a pint afterward. Thanks for indulging my rambles!


Me: early 40s; W: mid-30s
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In most cases we see involving a wayward wife, there will eventually be a build up in scenes of melt-downs, spewing, and whatever dramatic acts it takes for her to push her H to give in to her demands. She reinforced it during the session with the MC. This is all about self justification. Somewhere in her foggy mind, she knows her behavior is wrong. The WW tries to paint a picture of how bad her MR has been.......how awful her H has been, and therefore, persuading others to believe she is justified in her actions.

I think you handled things pretty well. I don't understand why you kept the MC appointment, b/c it was just another opportunity for her dramatic persuasion. MC needs to be postponed indefinitely. MC only works when both parties want to save the M and are willing to do the necessary work.

She quickly showed her colors when she was saying she would leave S with you, and you would just have to deal with daycare. When she was spewing with you..........notice how it was all about her wants and needs. And it appears she has a great need to date, at the moment. Even if it means leaving her son! Sad, but not uncommon with a WW.

Okay, so now you need to be on guard b/c she will get advice from all her females groupies about how she needs to get everything in the D. At the time of her big spew, her main issue was freedom to date. Her demands have not ended, so beware.

I agree that you need legal advice in knowing where you stand, child custody/support, protecting your finances, property, retirement. Etc. She will try to get everything. You are no longer dealing with the girl you M.

Be very careful what you reveal to her. It may feel strange not sharing, but it's for your own protection. Also, in the very near future, you may see different sides of her....kind of like different personalities. If she suddenly comes on as sweet and nice........that's a big red flag waving. It is not some sign she is reaching out or that she is reconsidering anything. No, it is her softening you for her next hit. If that doesn't work, she'll probably throw a tantrum. You may see everything from how happy she is in her new life.......to her crying and wanting comfort from you. Do not fall for any of this b.s. It is nothing more than acts of conditioning you to give her whatever she wants at the time. Sadly, many H's cave when they see tears, or if she comes on to him sexually, or if she just treating him nice. H's read this as some "sign". Well, it's a sign alright.........but not the signs she wants to reconcile.

I realize my words are not comforting right now. I am trying to give you information to use this week and those to come. Things will get worse, and that's okay.......b/c that's how it plays out before the WW will give up her fantasy world and turn back to the woman you remember. Please take this information and use it in preparation, so that when you see it unfold before your eyes.....you won't crash & burn.

These forums are full of H's who make a day by day report. They may say that yesterday was great b/c WW.........(fill in the blank). Then today he may say was awful b/c WW........(fill in the blank). Those H's are focused on the actions/behavior/attitudes of his WW, instead of focused on a plan for himself. He is actually allowing her attitude/moods to determine what type of day he has. Sure, the spouse can impact our day, but I also believe we have the power within us to emotionally/mentally separate ourselves from them (it's called detaching, btw) and go about having a good day......in spite of whatever that person throws at us. It's the same attitude we use on the job or anything that involves interaction with humans.

You may have to turn lose of the M.......to get it back. If you let go of the grip, you release the desperation, attachment, need to control, and all those other things that tend to make a LBS unattractive. Do not allow the emotion of fear to get in your head and paralyze you. A WW will smell it, and pounce on it.

The way back to a healthy MR begins with her respect. Until she feels respect for you, she will not desire to have you as her H. The disrespect kills her attraction for you. So, let respect be your light at the end of the tunnel. The bigger the light becomes, the closer the M has a chance of survival.

You might want to research about the importance of the wife feeling respect for her H as a man, and the connection it has with her level of attraction in the MR.


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Thanks for chiming in, Sandi. It's so helpful to get your insight.

I don't understand why you kept the MC appointment, b/c it was just another opportunity for her dramatic persuasion. MC needs to be postponed indefinitely. MC only works when both parties want to save the M and are willing to do the necessary work.

--Up to this point, even though things were tanking in our R the last couple of months, there were little snippets of communication that felt productive from time to time. At this point it's clear MC is becoming a theater for her to restage how rotten our MR was and she's trying to rewrite herself as the victim. The C isn't really buying into it, which makes me feel saner, but I agree with you, it's hurting the MR more than it's helping and it's time to pull the plug.

She quickly showed her colors when she was saying she would leave S with you, and you would just have to deal with daycare. When she was spewing with you..........notice how it was all about her wants and needs. And it appears she has a great need to date, at the moment. Even if it means leaving her son! Sad, but not uncommon with a WW.

--She quickly backpedaled and said she was going to take him away, but yes, it was shocking that "dating" now is so important to her she'd even momentarily suggest the idea that she'd just leave our S! Everything is absolutely about what she wants at this point. She is incredibly self-centered right now that I am speechless.

Okay, so now you need to be on guard b/c she will get advice from all her females groupies about how she needs to get everything in the D. At the time of her big spew, her main issue was freedom to date. Her demands have not ended, so beware.

--She has a close group of 2-3 friends that she has reconnected with in the past several months and she is basically in a never-ending text/chat with them on her phone. The are childless singe women who change boyfriends every several months and these friends are acting as her sounding board/cheerleaders. I am sure that they are all brainstorming what she should do next.

I agree that you need legal advice in knowing where you stand, child custody/support, protecting your finances, property, retirement. Etc. She will try to get everything. You are no longer dealing with the girl you M.

--Consulted with a L today. It was a sobering experience but I came to understand what different paths we could take and I have a bit more of a grasp on potential issues of custody, alimony, child support, and all those sorts of things. None of it was fun to think about, but I left with more clarity about potential outcomes and that has made me feel less trepidation and more in control. I will not tell her about talking to the L at this point and certainly won't bring up discussion of D to my W again unless she initiates it, but if it does come down do it, I have a plan of action.

Be very careful what you reveal to her. It may feel strange not sharing, but it's for your own protection. Also, in the very near future, you may see different sides of her....kind of like different personalities. If she suddenly comes on as sweet and nice........that's a big red flag waving. It is not some sign she is reaching out or that she is reconsidering anything. No, it is her softening you for her next hit.

--Yes, I can already see the tip of the iceberg on that. Also, I notice that when she acts horrible or insensitive, she will follow up with a token gesture or just try to engage me in conversation like nothing happened. It's really disturbing and irrational behavior the more I distance myself and think about it. It's having the effect of helping me detach more, actually.

At this point, since the blow-up 4 nights ago, I have not been initiating any dialogue or contact with her. We only communicate (through txting) about scheduling to watch or S. We live on opposite sides of the house and have different work schedules so NC is fairly easy.

I realize my words are not comforting right now. I am trying to give you information to use this week and those to come. Things will get worse, and that's okay.......b/c that's how it plays out before the WW will give up her fantasy world and turn back to the woman you remember. Please take this information and use it in preparation, so that when you see it unfold before your eyes.....you won't crash & burn.


--Thanks for this. I expect the worst is still yet to come...

Those H's are focused on the actions/behavior/attitudes of his WW, instead of focused on a plan for himself. He is actually allowing her attitude/moods to determine what type of day he has.

--Unfortunately this describes me as well. Ever since W gave birth to our S and had post-partum depression, I've allowed my mental state to be dominated by her moods and feelings. I was even worse after the BD of "ILYBINILWY" or course. This obviously has made me unattractive and unrespectable in her eyes. I feel lately I am finally starting to detach.

The way back to a healthy MR begins with her respect. Until she feels respect for you, she will not desire to have you as her H. The disrespect kills her attraction for you. So, let respect be your light at the end of the tunnel. The bigger the light becomes, the closer the M has a chance of survival.

--This is really the heart of the matter, isn't it? I realize how little respect she has for me know and slowly coming to terms with the fact that that has been gradually showing itself over the past few years. Snipping at me, being condescending at times, etc. I'm spending time reflecting on how to regain that respect. It seems working on detachment and reflecting on the things that I need and want out of life are key here.

I do think that I need to let go of my grip on the marriage. I need to stop being afraid of losing it and losing her, as they are really both already gone. The great irony not lost on my here is that it was probably my fear of losing my W, and the mindset that that created in me, that contributed to pushing her away from the MR.

Thanks for your insights--they are always keen and direct.

I would love to hear more from any peeps who have been working toward regaining their W's respect.


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I think you need to know that whenever a WW is pushing so hard about the issue of dating......it usually means there is already someone waiting in the wings. Sometimes they haven't waited in the wings, and the WW has conducted a secret affair (EA, PA, or IA). I believe it is a red flag when "free to date others" is pushed at the top of what's important for her.

I am glad you talked with a lawyer, and have a better understanding of where you stand. You said something about not sharing information with your W, unless she initiated. It may feel very odd, but I think you may need to start thinking of yourself more independently of your W. Just because she initiates a conversation and/or ask questions, does not mean you have to tell her anything that could hurt your "case" (so to speak). I am sure it must be very difficult to see her manipulating ways. This woman is your W and you are use to sharing with her, trusting her. That's understandable. However, I can't caution you enough not to trust her as long as she's wayward. No matter her previous character, the waywardness will mostly override in every decision she makes, and every act she carries, every behavior she conducts, and every selfish intent to pass through her mind. Very dark picture, isn't it? I know, but I also know she can come out of the waywardness and turn back to find the person she use to be.

Sadly, I have not seen a wayward stop her ways b/c her H was so sweet and kind to her. I haven't seen her stop b/c her H continued to be available for whatever, whenever, she wanted something. The NGS tells H's this is proving love......but it's not. It is proving to the WW that he is too weak to stand up, and speak up, and live for what he believes is right. To see him refusing to compromise his integrity. To see him unafraid of her threats, tantrums, and bullying. To see that he is not moved by her tears and pity-parties. To see that he will not fall for her manipulating tricks. To see him unafraid to stand up for himself. To a WW, that is a picture of a man who has inner strength. Although it will make her mad, at first, down in her heart she can't help but respect him. She doesn't want to respect him at that point (b/c now, she's wayward), but when he proves he can be stronger than her......then she knows this is a man who can protect/provide for her, and her children, and take care of whatever may fall upon their family. When women are afraid or worried to death, they want a H who will hold them, calm their fears & tears and assure them they (their off-springs and their home) will be protected. That is the natural instinct of a woman.

So, throughout their MR, she will likely (maybe subconsciously) test him from time to time to see if he is still strong enough to handle her and what she throws at him. Will he still be the leader, or will he give that job to her? Will he be decisive, or passive? Will he stand up to her, or jump around however she wants.....hoping to keep her in a good mood? If he can't deal with her disrespectful ways......why should she think he's strong enough to handle anything else? A woman won't fully respect a husband who is weaker than her. She won't respect a husband who she can master like a puppet. Somehow, a lot of H's have gotten away from those natural instincts. Things have gotten out of order under his own roof.

When the WW wants to step outside the MR, or if she decides she wants to S or D.....she basically has removed herself from his protection, leadership, etc. How can he lead someone who doesn't respect him enough to follow? Yes, you are correct when you say that is the base of it. That is the main problem that stands in the way of your WW having loving feelings for you.

Some newcomers don't want to believe this, and don't want to accept this. They don't want to give up believing that if they will be nice enough enough to their WW, then she will finally see how much he loves her and she will want to rebuild their MR. I haven't seen it work that way, but if it works for them, I will be happy for them. I simply try to explain the mindset of a wayward wife.


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Sandi-
Thanks for your thoughts, they are always appreciated.

I think you need to know that whenever a WW is pushing so hard about the issue of dating......it usually means there is already someone waiting in the wings. Sometimes they haven't waited in the wings, and the WW has conducted a secret affair (EA, PA, or IA). I believe it is a red flag when "free to date others" is pushed at the top of what's important for her.

She has been adamant that she doesn't have any "dating prospects" but I am very suspicious at this point. Even if she's not actively seeing someone she is obviously on the lookout for a potential OM. As you point out, the fact that she's willing to put so much on the line to push me into "giving her permission" to start seeing other people if she wants means it's front and center on her agenda obviously.

I am glad you talked with a lawyer, and have a better understanding of where you stand. You said something about not sharing information with your W, unless she initiated. It may feel very odd, but I think you may need to start thinking of yourself more independently of your W. Just because she initiates a conversation and/or ask questions, does not mean you have to tell her anything that could hurt your "case" (so to speak). I am sure it must be very difficult to see her manipulating ways. This woman is your W and you are use to sharing with her, trusting her.

Sadly, I am growing to trust her less and less. I have come to realize that her agenda is based solely on what she wants right now, or the fantasy of what she wants. I seem to only factor in as an instrument to help her achieve her goals. I absolutely won't tell her about the consult with the L or any of the info I received. I won't mention D with W, and won't threaten her with it. If W comes to me and says she is filing or wants to file, then I already have a L that I can work with so I won't be completely off guard. I truly, truly hope that it doesn't come down to it, but in a worst case scenario I am prepared to file if need be.

Sadly, I have not seen a wayward stop her ways b/c her H was so sweet and kind to her. I haven't seen her stop b/c her H continued to be available for whatever, whenever, she wanted something. The NGS tells H's this is proving love......but it's not. It is proving to the WW that he is too weak to stand up, and speak up, and live for what he believes is right.

So, throughout their MR, she will likely (maybe subconsciously) test him from time to time to see if he is still strong enough to handle her and what she throws at him. Will he still be the leader, or will he give that job to her? Will he be decisive, or passive? Will he stand up to her, or jump around however she wants.....hoping to keep her in a good mood? If he can't deal with her disrespectful ways......why should she think he's strong enough to handle anything else? A woman won't fully respect a husband who is weaker than her.

This is painful to read, Sandi, but it rings true. I realize that I have become the "Nice Guy" in our relationship and have been for the past few years. She has practically said as much in a few of the comments she's made in the past several months. Part of it has been that I've been a conflict-avoider in our R, and W has been quite a bit as well. Part of it must come from insecurity, fear of losing W if we have a fight or conflict? It is a hard pattern to get out of but I find myself slowly letting go of the mindset that I have to please her.

I have come to realize that it is impossible to "please her" as this is a faulty premise to begin with. Trying to please her has been my attempt to coax love from her in the recent past and it doesn't ever seem to make her happy and she actually shows less and less affection. For years she desperately wanted a child and family but now often acts resentful about being a mom and despises our home, the town we live in, and being a W--everything about settling down that she acted as if would make her happy just a few years ago.

I also reflect on the fact that I've become a NG in so many small ways. No matter how tired I was or how late I was at work, I always stopped by the grocery store for her if she asked, or ran an errand. If I needed the same from her, she was completely comfortable telling me she just didn't feel like it. I know it must sound petty now, but it's a revealing example of our R dynamic. I see in hindsight that there were lots of little instances like this.

The funny thing is that I wouldn't really consider myself as much a NG in day-to-day life or at work. Typically I confront conflict outside of MR more often. I'm known as being calm and even-handed but I will call people out for not doing their job or for being disrespectful. I also stand up on behalf of my team when needed. I don't shy away from disagreements and I often like to through out differing opinions or counterpoints--sometimes just for the sake of stimulating conversation. I typically feel fairly comfortable with who I am. In the presence of my W, all that seems to evaporate. I'm trying to figure out how to be the "real" me 24/7.

I think the NG really came out in me when W had our S. She had terrible PP depression and often took it our on me. Because she was a new mom and obviously in a bad place mentally, I basically took to trying to appease, placate, or make her happy. This set the tone for the next few years.


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Just a quick update.

It has been a week since WW spewed at me about me being controlling and manipulative and she needing to start dating other people while we live together, and hurled some hateful insults at me. Since then I have grown very dim with her. When she texts I only respond to questions about logistics and then as succinctly as possible without trying to be too curt. At home we usually only see each other for about 15 minutes after I get home from work and before she heads out for her night shift. We talk about S for a moment and the smallest of small talk. I am happy to see S and usually focused on him, but will look directly at W when she talks to me and tell her good bye when she leaves. I try to have the most amicable tone that I can but sometimes only manage a deadpan.

She sent me a text the other day that she was "sorry about how things were between us and that she definitely saw her role in all this." I didn't respond, but, yeah, I can definitely see her role in all this, too. I'd say it was pretty obvious. (eyeroll)

She sent another text soon afterward about our schedules and then slipped in that we could talk about things when she got home from work. I answered the scheduling issues but didn't respond to the "talk." Last night, after our S went to bed I was sitting on our back patio and W popped her head out to say she was going to bed, but that she was off the next night and that we can have a talk. I just said "ok, goodnight."

Honestly, I don't think I'm up for a "talk" but I don't want to simply avoid a difficult situation. No, I don't think that she's suddenly come to her senses and wants to come back to the marriage, not for a second! I really think she's had a few days to reflect on how mean and spiteful she was to me last week and wants to find a way to smooth things over so she can feel less guilty and less like the bad guy in this.

I don't really feel like engaging with her, so I think I will politely decline her offer to chat. I will be too tired. Or, I may ask her what she wants to discuss, and if it's not our S, finances, scheduling, or her moving out, I'm not interested.

I just suspect she going to switch gears and go from wrathful WW to sweet apologetic friend and I don't care for either from her right now.

I'd like anyone's perspective on this. Am I just avoiding a difficult situation and making it worse? Should I hear her out? I am torn because I feel like it's always good to allow for communication and have an opportunity to validate but I also feel like I'm just going to be manipulated into assuaging her guilty feelings.


Me: early 40s; W: mid-30s
S: 2.5
T: 7 M: 5
12/15: ILYBINILWY
7/16 : Seperated
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 172
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All things considered, it sounds like you've been handling things very well CA!

My WW expressed a lot of similar sentiments as yours... feeling held back by the M, wanting to explore things with other people, being upset because I "ruined" her "harmless" fantasy. She actually had told me she thought her EA (sending naughty pics and emails) had made our relationship better, and she couldn't understand why I wasn't ok with it. She thought it was an ideal situation and she couldn't get why I wasn't willing to allow it, in order to keep her. After putting up with umpteen years of me she thought I "owed" it to her.

I 100% believe what Sandi says about needing respect first before other things can improve. Any nice/thoughtful gestures I made for WW were hiccups at best, and had very little positive effect. Some definitely had negative effects. In WWs mind, of course we're doing nice things for them because they're such a catch and we're lucky to have whatever scraps they throw our way. Doing nice things doesn't show them what they'd be missing, it reinforces that their waywardness is the way to get what they want.

What did get her attention was when I detached, did things for myself and stood my ground on things. When she met a guy friend for coffee and I went to bed early rather than waiting up for her, and didn't even ask her about it the next day. When I told her (calmly, politely) that I understood her frustration but it was bullshit for her to get upset at me because I didn't do something and then also get upset at me when I did it. When I went out of town to visit my family without her.

Those things got noticed. That doesn't mean she acted happy about it, or agreed with everything, but that kind of stuff is when I think she was getting glimpses of me as something other than an albatross around her neck.

Regarding your W wanting to talk, I think if you do talk it should be her doing most of the talking. I often fell into the trap of trying to explain my position and reiterate things. Or I would ask her a question and she would question me back and I would get into a long rolling answer. Let her do the talking. Any input from you should be short and sweet. Don't be afraid to respond to questions with things like "I need to give it some thought", or "I've just been focusing on improving myself". You can be available to listen to her, without having to answer every (or any) question she poses to you. After all, you're not the one who wanted the conversation!

You also don't need to make yourself available for the first time she suggests for the talk. After all, you're pretty busy doing awesome stuff.

I like how you were ready to leave the earlier conversation when she was being disrespectful - keep that mindset.


Me, WW - Upper 30s
BD - Apr 1 2016
EA - Apr 7 2016 (discovered; ongoing for months; did not confront right away)
Confronted wife about EA - May 17
Wife sent NC email to OM - July 11
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