Chapter 4 - Acting As If

[Melo]

Hey Biz, what videos about LRT are you referring to? Are they posted here?
Also I think you are voter thinking things brother, just make sure you are putting you first. Do what makes a difference for you my man, because it's who you are as a person, not because it will make a difference to her. Stay strong my man.

[bigybiz]

Melo: Good to hear from you. I wanted to let you know that I continue to pray for you regularly.

The LRT videos can be found on the "e-store" section of the DB site. There is a cost involved.

I can tell you that my path has many curves - but I'd like to believe what I'm doing is working. As MWD says regularly do what works.

My DB coach wanted me to build a friendship with W. That did not go so well when I tried in late 2015, early 2106. So after months of focusing on me and turning my GAL to "11", I'm ready to do it. After watching the LRT videos this fall it seems I'm now ready.

My life is moving on. Aside from the "limbo" of what could happen with the house. I'm as ready as I could be to go on without her.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not detached and my motivations are probably messed up. I still obsess about it, etc.

Nonetheless, It seems I'm getting results.

It may be cake eating on her part, it still seems that there has been a "softening" of her hard heart - or she is manipulating/DBing me perfectly.

I planned and executed our family Christmas without her. The kids and I went along our business and it seemed that they treated W as a visitor. We let her participate in a few of our events, etc. Not all, just some.

I've "let" her hang around the house on my parenting days. She has been doing our laundry at her apt. When she comes over she cleans the bathroom, etc. S16 has his own life now, so he does not go to visit her - so the only way she can see him is to come to our house. She has been taking an active interest in our basement reno (again a big risk during a time of separation).

As the coaches say - I've engaged her in "safe" conversation and we seem to be starting a dialogue. This past summer she would not accept any "kind" gesture from me (as I would offer a friend or stranger), today, she now asks me for little things i.e. a lift to her apt, to share my parenting time with her, etc.

I've been consistent. I'm proceeding with my life, activities, etc. We've asked her to participate in our life and have never made a concession for her. We are still basically NC. She knows I will not text her. If she sends me a text, I will give a short simple reply. If she want's info etc, she can call me or ask me when she see's me.

She has accepted invitations from me to see movies, to come over when the extended family has come over, etc.

I'm thinking this is progress. I intend to turn up the heat on what I'm doing in my life and see what happens.

[sandi2]

Is any OM in the picture?

[bigybiz]

Not that I know of and W has told D21 that she is not dating. In Fall of 2015 W was having an EA - which I broke up via snooping and a phone call to the OM. Last time we talked about it June 2016 W insisted it was a friendship.

[sandi2]

OK, then is she still in this "friendship" with OM?

[bigybiz]

Not with him. After, I confronted him and her - he dropped her like a stone. He blocked her from social media, etc.

I'm confident he is out of the picture. My guess is there is no one else but, I don't know.

[sandi2]

Bigy, you seem to have made such a large 180 from the place you were when you first arrived. You have always been open for more suggestions from the board. You appear, to me, to be very goal oriented. I applaud you for how you have taken charge of your home and caring for your children.

I feel you are trying so hard to create a sense of loss for your W, that you might possibly fall into controlling. I talk a lot about cake-eating and how the WW has to experience some type of loss, due to her choices and bad decisions. The H can stop serving cake, and he can stop most of the benefits she received as his W in the MR.

I want to say this carefully, Bigy, b/c I don't want anyone to misunderstand. When couples are co-parenting or parallel parenting.....it (the relationship) can get complicated, especially if one spouse is hoping to reconcile with the other one. I just wanted to add this, b/c I see other men struggling with similar issues.

One of the most unflaterring sides of a WW, is her controlling/manipulative hold on her family....mainly, her H. From what I remember in your stitch, this had been the behavior of your W for a long time. When the separation came, you were determined she would not gain control of you again, if you had anything to do with it. Do I rememeber this summary correctly?

At one point, I think you questioned if you really wanted her back in the home, and she even tried to manipulate her way back into the house. She got pretty angry when you let her know it wasn't happening. Right so far? I've tried to keep up, but admit I get behind.

In this thread, I am reading how your hope is that you and W will reconcile. However, your ongoing goal seems to be that you won't give her an inch, b/c you want her to feel loss. But in order to make sure she has "loss", you step in and take the control handles. Am I being fair in this statement? I want to be fair with you, Bigy, b/c I do talk a lot about the "loss" being important.

I have also told H's not to allow a cheating W back in the MR too easily. I believe she has her "work" to do, if the reconciliation is successful. I think family therapy is needed and the couple certainly needs MC to help them through the piecing. I am saying all of this b/c I don't want you to think I am contradicting myself, okay?

So, here is my concern for your stitch. What you write out in your threads sound pretty good, but I have this perception that you are way too focused on not making anything easy for her. Now if she is like Jimko's WW......then I understand and support it, but if she is not......you may being overdoing it. As I recall, you have difficulty maintaining a sense of balance in your actions. Right?

If you want to be emotionally healthier, I think you need to let go of trying to control her relationship with the boys. As long as she is not doing something that causes harm to them, why do you have to meet with her for Saturday mornings discussions over the kids? I don't mean what are your excuses for the meetings, b/c I know them. I mean what are your true motives? I kind of think it is your way to stay on top of things and let her know you are in control of it. Again Bigy, I get it. You have felt as if you've been both parents to the kids, and I think you have done a remarkable job.

I have been hesitant in saying anything b/c you appear to have a tendency to go too far from one direction to the other. Try to find balance. Perhaps you need to let go of trying to control what she does, or what happens to her. Know what I mean? You need a clearer view of where the line is drawn between loss and punishment. It is not your job to punish her. I don't think you will get her back by punishing her. My "loss" that slapped me in the face, had nothing to do with my H. He did not create it. So maybe you don't need to be quite so driven in that direction. With that said, I do not mean you should open the flood gates to serving all the cake she can eat. Just stop trying to control every little aspect all the time. Focus on being a litle relaxed around her. What you see as being polite and having few words, could be interpted as mean spirited by her. You are trying to detach and follow the advice you've read. If she is not in some type of special friendship with another man, and if you feel the time is right.....you can start to let up with the rigid atmosphere and/or interactions. Don't widly swing too much too quickly, b/c she may not be ready.

I may be 100% off base here, but in trying to see you in these various interactions with your W.......are you a little bit rigid? Do you feel you must maintain this, in order to prevent her from going into your house and taking over
the run of things?

Has she said anything to you that indicated she wants to go back home? What about wanting to return to the MR? My advice is to a few temp checks to see where her passion lies. I would not invest energy, time, and emotions into trying to build a friendship if there is a guy who has her true interest.

[bigybiz]

Thanks Sandi2 as usual you nailed many of the issues on the head.
Yes, she did not like where she first moved to. I told her that if she wanted to move back in to our home it was as my wife and not in an in-house separation. She did not like that. Also, S16 & D20 were not to happy of the thought of the in house separation starting again. She found a better place to live.

My feelings are, there no is OM – there maybe an infatuation and or imagined affair. Plus, her addiction to her new community/family, as she puts it, is her primary focus/obsession.

Yes, when I get a thought in my head I go to the extreme. When she moved out I tried to be friendly and cooperative. I thought I could be business like and keep her involved in the family. She suggested the Saturday meetings – we had one. I slipped back into wimp mode and nagged her to keep her involved. After 6 weeks of that I said forget it. I went full steam ahead on showing her that I/we did not need her. I was totally NC. The best piece of advice you gave me Sandi2 was I’m not her secretary.

One of my colleagues on the board posted that the WAW/WW can smell my motivations so any backhanded meetings, family counselling, etc. would be perceived as a trick to get her back. So, I acted alone and waited for her to bring up issues if they came up.

Georgia Bulldog gave me a great insight when he said the WAW/WW views an amicable break up as a goal. I was not going to reward her with that.

I had a great summer and back to school with my kids. The house is in great shape, nobody died from my cooking, we had birthday parties, vacations, activities, etc. all without her. The jobs Yes, I then tried to rub her nose in it - subtly. I’m still doing it.

Yes, control and punishment has been a theme in our MR. She says it was all me and does not acknowledge that she did as well.

Thanks for the wake-up call – It’s not my job to punish her.
She has not said anything about coming back to the home and certainly not to the MR. Her actions have indicated that there is small change in her. She has accepted invitations to be part of the family during Christmas and after. FYI, I have not extended an invitation to her for every activity – only select events. Acts of Service is one of her main love languages. She has extended herself far more in the last month than she ever had in the past six, including washing and folding my underwear .

She has expressed interest in our basement renovations, expressed concern for my parent’s health, she has even realized that she will need to address the estrangement she has with her family too.

I’ve been consistent. My GAL is still at 110%. I realize that she may never come back so all the skills I’ve had to develop need to be refined. Am I detached – not yet.
I’ve been changing as a response to her changes too. I’ve started to ask her for her help, only for tasks that can be done by me or someone else if she says no.

I’ve tried to show genuine interest in her, at a distance. I’ve tried to talk about safe conversations, not just the kids – you know adult conversations.

I’ve tried to let her re-enter her life. JimKo encouraged me to let her have some rope and not worry about the little things, I don’t bring them up.
If she feels the only way to have quality time with her son’s is to be in their home, then I give her some space when she is here.

How do I temp check? I’ve asked her if she would like to “join me” watching a TV show we used to both enjoy, I was turned down. Any ideas on how to temp check?

So Sandi2 and everyone else – how do I continue to work on myself and allow her to re-enter her life? As I’ve said, I see some changes – I think they are a good thing. I’d love some practical suggestions - I promise not to go overboard.

[SH_]

Bigy...

I suggest that you follow LRT.
Sandi has provided very candid feedback and thoughts
You have acknowledged them
Your reply is screaming 2 things
You are not choosing to detach...
Your every action is with an intent and goal around getting a reaction from your W.

You hold very much to the extreme definition of wayward for your w.
I still perceive she is much more WAW...
She is not under your roof
She is not requesting things that indicate a desire to work on things with you.
Her actions as you share would seem more that she sense a loss of her family...not so much the loss of her MR.

My simple opinion is...back up and observe.
Let her go through the process...nothing you do is going to get her to feel loss or suddenly make any changes...time is your gift.
Detachment is your daily choice.

If many of us perceive your controlling actions and reactions, I can only imagine what she perceives...she knows you and sees all that you do, say, and think.

You are super goal oriented and push with vigor that a successful and driven person does...
Perhaps your lesson in all of this is...
You can not control everything...you can not control anything except your self...
Letting things be as they will be and controlling your response and acceptance will be where you grow...and will show you a path that can and will lead to better things.

[Rose888]

You asked how to temp check, but it sounds like you know how to do it.

Asking her to watch a show with you was temp checking. She said no. The temp is cold.

Wanting tips for how to let her re-enter your life implies she wants to enter, and there doesn't seem much evidence for that in what you post.

If you feel like what you are doing is resulting in some softening, then keep doing it, but there's no indication you should move things along, or take things to the next level, etc.