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Brubeck Offline OP
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Tried calling a L for a "free consultation". I made clear at the beginning of the conversation that I was NOT looking to file for D but wanted to know what was required of me if my W did.

The lawyer said they couldn't answer any questions unless I paid a retainer and based on what information I gave about my sitch their only response was "you have to file now, you have to file now". I guess "free consultation" is code for Elevator Pitch.

I called another law firm and the voice mail they left on my cell phone was so aggressive sounding I wasn't even inclined to call back.

I am searching for a divorce lawyer that won't ask for a retainer but will accept a consulting fee. I just want to learn the A-B-C's if W decides to file. I don't know if any lawyers do such a thing. I want a female lawyer, too - I just feel more comfortable with one.

Still crying every day, the anxiety and accompanying sleeplessness has returned. It's the same feeling to how it was in February & March, when she was in the Anger stage and spewing at me two or three times a week. This morning she rose from the couch, walked past the MBR as I was making the bed. We caught each others eyes, she said nothing and walked on to the bathroom. It was like I wasn't even there.

Hey, it's only 7 months into my W's MLC, but there are still moments of disbelief, anger and sadness for me. This is INTENSE for me. I am also crying out of humility when I think of how kind people have been in listening to me. I never needed any help like this before in my life, I never needed people to just hear me and remind me I'm a good person in a bad situation and it's okay to feel hurt and I'm human being and I can cry if I need to.

Bless my sons, the world goes away when I am with them. They are a light in this darkness.


M: 49, W: 45
T: 22 M: 15
S14, S11, S9
BD: Jan '16
W files: Oct '16
D final: June '18
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 956
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Hang in there and keep trying. Look up divorce lawyer reviews first. I had free consultations with 6 (3 in person, 3 on the phone) after H filed...none asked for money until I decided on one and retained her. Maybe try collaborative lawyers. I wish I had tried that, but I am somewhat happy with mine as she does take a more defensive stance when I've asked.
Good luck. It is a horrible time to try to make such decisions...I know my mind was mush and my heart wanted what it wanted...not to step into a law office. But you need to take care of yourself regardless. My thoughts are with you.


M-51 H-54
2D-27 and 25
M-26 yrs
Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15
He moved out 10-3-15
D filed 1-27-16
D final 10-27-16

Kindness, kindness, kindness.
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X2 keep looking. I first went for advice not looking to file and also felt the same way about having a female lawyer. I researched and found a great lawyer but it's probably easier being in a smaller area. She had quite a few good reviews, several mentioning her concern for their children. She met with me for $75 for about 45 minutes and answered my questions and gave me some good information. She also said she would not consult w if contacted. She didn't pressure me at all, wished me luck and said to let her know if I had anymore questions.

Put a list of your questions and concerns together before you go in, it is hard not to be emotional and easy to forget things while explaining everything and answering questions.

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Mid August marks birthdays for two of our sons, as well as their annual photos at Target. This time around, W doesn't seem so interested.

W told S7 two months ago that we would not have the traditional backyard pool party we always do for him and S2. Her mother, who gladly does all the cooking & invitations, is in Guatemala this summer, and I guess W can't fit a children's party into her MLC mind.

W skipped on baking a cake, she normally loves to do that. She bought a cake from the store that she took out of the fridge the moment I got home from work. She was still texting somebody while I lit the candles. She smiled at S7 and sung Happy Birthday with the rest of us. By 7 pm, her part was done - she left for dinner for the evening. I took the boys in the pool and I cooked steak on the grill at S7's request - who is now S8 and damn handsome!

We also took the boys for their annual photos at Target. I booked the appointment over a month ago and marked it on our kitchen calendar. I reminded her when she had a week left to pick outfits to buy, she said OK but her face had a reaction that combined being worried and being annoyed.

Morning of photo shoot. I'm getting them out of the shower. She comes in the boys room and starts frantically flipping through their closet - "I couldn't find any matching outfits online so I figure we could just work something out here. What do you think?" I help her look through the closet. Nothing really works. She says "let's buy them outfits at Target." Hmmmmm, ya think she instantly forgot my reminder the moment I left?

The photo shoot went well. Afterwards, we're in the lobby getting ready to select our photos. When our 10 choices appeared on the monitor, W patted me on the back and said "I'm sure whatever photos you pick will be fine. I'm gonna go get S3 some crackers." She left the studio for several minutes. I'm sure her cell phone was in use the entire time.

We took them out afterwards for a fast lunch. We get in the car. W gets in and immediately rests her head against the seat and closes her eyes. She rubs a palm over her forehead and exhales. 90 active minutes with the boys is just too much stress now.

W spanked S4 with a shoe last week - 6 paddles. I heard the spanking via my remote snooping and verified with S8 later that day while she was out jogging. I was surprised it was S4, he's a true sweetie who's never defiant at all with either of us. I don't know what he could have done to make her that mad.

I bought a nanny cam, it's a 4 x 6 picture frame that I'll be placing to face the dining room and living room. I'll stock it with one of the new portrait photos they just took.

On S8's birthday she got mad at him that afternoon about something, and she screamed at him that she was going to pack his backpack full of clothes and kick him out into the street. That's some awful projection there - I think she wants to pack a bag for herself. She then lowered her voice to a hush to tell S8 - "I am going f%#king crazy", and I'm sure she is.

She's all geared up about getting this job she just interviewed for again, but she gets massively aggravated if the boys do anything to distract her from her cell phone use or make her get off the bed.

She was on the phone with OM this afternoon where for the very first time I heard her refer to me as "evil". I am truly moving up in her world.


M: 49, W: 45
T: 22 M: 15
S14, S11, S9
BD: Jan '16
W files: Oct '16
D final: June '18
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 11,646
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uhhh why the Nanny Cam?

Are you worried about her with the boys?



Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis

Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans

Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK

TRUST THE PROCESS - Cadet

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Brubeck I'm so sorry about how your wife is treating the children. Hitting a child is unacceptable at any age, but at 4 it is pure abuse in my eyes. What kind of a mother does that? And do you really want to be with someone like that? Do you think it has to do with her current mental state or is that her character? What do you hope to achieve with the nanny cam?

I'm so sorry you and your family is going through this, it sounds horrible. My H is simply "distant" and I find that hard to handle, I don't know if I could put up with the way your wife treats the children.

I am sending you strength, I hope you can find a way to stop her from hurting you and your little ones.


"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"

“There is freedom waiting for you,
On the breezes of the sky,
And you ask "What if I fall?"
Oh but my darling,
What if you fly?”

-Erin Hanson





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Brubeck Offline OP
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I'm starting to think my W is not in MLC, that she's just a WW or maybe a WAW. She is so clear-headed about her cheating.

The MLC stuff goes on... lying about me (and many other things) to her friends on a near daily basis. Making up stories about stuff only OM likes just so she has something to say. Lying to everyone about this or that. Staying out as late as possible when she can get others to go. Laying in bed all day playing with her cell phone and ignoring the kids. Swearing at the kids when they force her to get up and be a parent. Constant jogging, starving herself, ephedra tablets.

Bragging to her girlfriends about her upcoming "independence"... not working for 11 years but will she score a job with a paycheck that will cover child care (and all the other bills she knows nothing about). Her mother will babysit the kids for 3 hours a day even though she has never agreed to watch them for more than an hour. Seeing this wonderful life on the other side of the rainbow where she's got a job and a car (and the house) and she's raising 3 kids all by herself. She will be independent of that god awful H (me!) that supported her every decision for the past 11 years. I know this is the La La land of MLC.

However, she sounds totally focused and rational about her A. I overheard her tell OM last night about their "2 relationships".

She said the friendship part is the more thoughtful portion of it, where quite often they are both offering each other advice on how to restore their M's (OM is separated but desperate to get his W back). OM really wants my W's advice on fixing his M and my W tells him plenty (he sounds like kind of a lost puppy dog) but my W doesn't want to hear OM tell her anything on how to work on her own M. Whenever she mentions anything regarding me, her tone of voice instantly turns to anger.

She easily refers to the "messing around" part of their R as her just being his "side chick". She said it's healthy that he says something to hurt her feelings once in a while so she'll keep a certain distance from him.

She casually referred to him as her "friend with benefits" over the phone to someone. Earlier this week, she got mad that MLC Friend #1 tried to set her up with a guy that she found unattractive. She ranted to someone over the phone that "If I'm gonna keep cheating, it's not going to be with someone like that!" This makes me think she's not in MLC, that she's just WW.

I am PMA around the house for the kids. She is either dim or dark with me at all times. She goes dark on the kids once I'm home.

Am I trying to make sense of something that doesn't make sense?


M: 49, W: 45
T: 22 M: 15
S14, S11, S9
BD: Jan '16
W files: Oct '16
D final: June '18
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 11,646
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Quote:

I'm starting to think my W is not in MLC, that she's just a WW or maybe a WAW. She is so clear-headed about her cheating.


If she was a WAW she would be gone, no contact. Nothing.

How exactly are you overhearing all these phone conversations?

I see a lot about her and what she is doing and saying and where she is going...

What are you doing for yourself? What is Brubeck doing that you enjoy? I hope you find something because you are living in a constant state of stress in your house. While agree not to kick her out, it is not an easy thing to do. You shouldn't be breathing a sigh of relief only when she goes out, cause that brings about its own ball of stress.

And yes as a parent it is is important to do things with your kids especially now, it is also important to do things for yourself...by yourself.



Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis

Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans

Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK

TRUST THE PROCESS - Cadet

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Originally Posted By: Jack_Three_Beans
What are you doing for yourself? What is Brubeck doing that you enjoy? I hope you find something because you are living in a constant state of stress in your house. While agree not to kick her out, it is not an easy thing to do. You shouldn't be breathing a sigh of relief only when she goes out, cause that brings about its own ball of stress.

And yes as a parent it is is important to do things with your kids especially now, it is also important to do things for yourself...by yourself.

Forgive me, J3B - but I am always reading on DB boards of the constant emphasis on GALing. Constantly being told that is just another form of stress for me.

My kids aren't teenagers, I'm still changing diapers. I don't have time to take up building birdhouses or reading Chaucer. If I can squeeze in a half-hour of guitar playing in a week, I'm good. I read another 10 pages of the DB book last Friday, I felt lucky to get away with it.

What I'm (also) doing for myself is combing DB boards. The more I read about MLC from actual MLC survivors, the more empathetic I become towards my W. I've read M Go Blue. I've come across posts by Spirit / mirage. It will take me a while to get through all the AmyC/Amy40 posts. That is just for myself.

What is for myself is trying to understand the INTENSE levels of emotion I am undergoing. I am not used to this. The anger and sadness is unheard of. The vulnerability and betrayal is new to me. I am reading anything I can on forgiveness, because I've always been bad at that. Every day I have a moment where I must forgive her, because it follows the moment where I want to grab her clothes and throw them on our front yard.

When I get home from work, my children come to me for love & attention. I am glad to give it to them and to play with them. I know W loves our children, but she is dim or dark with them 75% of the time.

Originally Posted By: Jack_Three_Beans
I see a lot about her and what she is doing and saying and where she is going...


What and where is that?


M: 49, W: 45
T: 22 M: 15
S14, S11, S9
BD: Jan '16
W files: Oct '16
D final: June '18
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 11,646
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Quote:

Forgive me, J3B - but I am always reading on DB boards of the constant emphasis on GALing. Constantly being told that is just another form of stress for me.


Fair enough. I can understand the concept of it adding to your stress level.

Quote:

My kids aren't teenagers, I'm still changing diapers. I don't have time to take up building birdhouses or reading Chaucer.


You sure? There are some pretty good birdhouse kits out there, as for Chaucer, Jeez man, I suggested getting a life not a doctorate in English studies. ; )

Having her extend her parental obligation by telling her you are going out one night every now and then to have a drink or dinner with a friend, something like that.

Quote:

What and where is that?


You did ask for it...

Quote:

W told S7 two months ago that we would not have the traditional backyard pool party we always do for him and S2. Her mother, who gladly does all the cooking & invitations, is in Guatemala this summer, and I guess W can't fit a children's party into her MLC mind.

W skipped on baking a cake, she normally loves to do that. She bought a cake from the store that she took out of the fridge the moment I got home from work. She was still texting somebody while I lit the candles. She smiled at S7 and sung Happy Birthday with the rest of us. By 7 pm, her part was done - she left for dinner for the evening. I took the boys in the pool and I cooked steak on the grill at S7's request - who is now S8 and damn handsome!

We also took the boys for their annual photos at Target. I booked the appointment over a month ago and marked it on our kitchen calendar. I reminded her when she had a week left to pick outfits to buy, she said OK but her face had a reaction that combined being worried and being annoyed.

Morning of photo shoot. I'm getting them out of the shower. She comes in the boys room and starts frantically flipping through their closet - "I couldn't find any matching outfits online so I figure we could just work something out here. What do you think?" I help her look through the closet. Nothing really works. She says "let's buy them outfits at Target." Hmmmmm, ya think she instantly forgot my reminder the moment I left?

The photo shoot went well. Afterwards, we're in the lobby getting ready to select our photos. When our 10 choices appeared on the monitor, W patted me on the back and said "I'm sure whatever photos you pick will be fine. I'm gonna go get S3 some crackers." She left the studio for several minutes. I'm sure her cell phone was in use the entire time.

We took them out afterwards for a fast lunch. We get in the car. W gets in and immediately rests her head against the seat and closes her eyes. She rubs a palm over her forehead and exhales. 90 active minutes with the boys is just too much stress now.

W spanked S4 with a shoe last week - 6 paddles. I heard the spanking via my remote snooping and verified with S8 later that day while she was out jogging. I was surprised it was S4, he's a true sweetie who's never defiant at all with either of us. I don't know what he could have done to make her that mad.

I bought a nanny cam, it's a 4 x 6 picture frame that I'll be placing to face the dining room and living room. I'll stock it with one of the new portrait photos they just took.

On S8's birthday she got mad at him that afternoon about something, and she screamed at him that she was going to pack his backpack full of clothes and kick him out into the street. That's some awful projection there - I think she wants to pack a bag for herself. She then lowered her voice to a hush to tell S8 - "I am going f%#king crazy", and I'm sure she is.

She's all geared up about getting this job she just interviewed for again, but she gets massively aggravated if the boys do anything to distract her from her cell phone use or make her get off the bed.

She was on the phone with OM this afternoon where for the very first time I heard her refer to me as "evil". I am truly moving up in her world.

...


The MLC stuff goes on... lying about me (and many other things) to her friends on a near daily basis. Making up stories about stuff only OM likes just so she has something to say. Lying to everyone about this or that. Staying out as late as possible when she can get others to go. Laying in bed all day playing with her cell phone and ignoring the kids. Swearing at the kids when they force her to get up and be a parent. Constant jogging, starving herself, ephedra tablets.

Bragging to her girlfriends about her upcoming "independence"... not working for 11 years but will she score a job with a paycheck that will cover child care (and all the other bills she knows nothing about). Her mother will babysit the kids for 3 hours a day even though she has never agreed to watch them for more than an hour. Seeing this wonderful life on the other side of the rainbow where she's got a job and a car (and the house) and she's raising 3 kids all by herself. She will be independent of that god awful H (me!) that supported her every decision for the past 11 years. I know this is the La La land of MLC.

However, she sounds totally focused and rational about her A. I overheard her tell OM last night about their "2 relationships".

She said the friendship part is the more thoughtful portion of it, where quite often they are both offering each other advice on how to restore their M's (OM is separated but desperate to get his W back). OM really wants my W's advice on fixing his M and my W tells him plenty (he sounds like kind of a lost puppy dog) but my W doesn't want to hear OM tell her anything on how to work on her own M. Whenever she mentions anything regarding me, her tone of voice instantly turns to anger.

She easily refers to the "messing around" part of their R as her just being his "side chick". She said it's healthy that he says something to hurt her feelings once in a while so she'll keep a certain distance from him.

She casually referred to him as her "friend with benefits" over the phone to someone. Earlier this week, she got mad that MLC Friend #1 tried to set her up with a guy that she found unattractive. She ranted to someone over the phone that "If I'm gonna keep cheating, it's not going to be with someone like that!" This makes me think she's not in MLC, that she's just WW.


Now, I'm pretty sure a lot of this is venting and getting the story out there, and venting is helpful. Those are coming fro your two previous posts prior to the one I am responding to.

This wasn't me being an a55hat. Just pointing out how much focus is on her.

You have 3 young boys that you are going to need to be strong for and part of that is taking care of yourself. My boys were 10 and 5 when this happened to me.

This place is a great resource, but even doing research here means your immersing yourself if not in your situation, in others. A breath of fresh air every now and then is going to help you...not saying get a life, not like take up skiing. Not take every Saturday off. Saying get a coffee with a friend...or just yourself. 10-15 minutes just for yourself, maybe on the way home. Something to get out of the pressure cooker.

The pointing out all the times you mention her is NOT me saying don't talk about her. You'll need to vent and really she is a piece of work and my heart goes out to you and your kids. But a little news about you will also help.

When its all about the spouse...its a cause for concern. Like ALL your focus is on her. And...that's just not healthy.



Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis

Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans

Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK

TRUST THE PROCESS - Cadet

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