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First time posting here after lurking for a couple of months. I’ve finally come to the point where I feel like I need to step out of the shadows and get some feedback as I’m confused and struggling a bit.

So he’s another LONG story for the DB archives…


Things came to a head the day of our S’s second B-day, sadly (12/15). We had planned a b-day trip and a visit to the zoo with just the two of us and S and had been looking forward to it for weeks. We stopped briefly by my mom’s for a quick hello, intending about 15 minutes there. To our chagrin mom had sprung something of a surprise party on us and included only some of her relatives. W was very hurt by this as we had been planning a party for the entire extended family for the following and she felt my mom had selfishly usurped our intentions. The W was right. W basically excused herself to the back of the house and started crying. We left pretty quickly as we had already planned our day, to the confusion of some of the relatives there. W wa totally justified in her feelings, but when we got into the car with our S, she started melting down and screaming and cursing about my mom with him in the back seat. I told her I understood her feelings by that this was unacceptable, and we could pull over and she could get out if she wanted to spew. She wouldn’t stop and finally I pulled over and told her to get out of the car if she was going to keep on swearing in front of S. She finally stopped and was sullen and despondent the rest of the day and wouldn’t talk and the rest of the day she decided was ruined.

When we got back home, W immediately left for several hours and I got on the phone and chew out mom. W returns later that night and after S is in bed we talk. I tell W that I scolded my mom for what she had done, but I told W that her actions in front of our child were entirely unacceptable. W was grateful and agreed about her bad behavior. She told me also that she felt very attracted to me in that moment (!!!) This highlight was short-lived though, as our convo takes a dive when W says that what I really should have done was yell at my mom to her face when we were at her house! Crestfallen, I tell wife that I don’t think she will be satisfied with anything I do and that she never seems to have the ability to appreciate life or feel happiness anymore. I tell her I don’t feel that she appreciates me. She basically comes back with ILYBINILWY and admits that for a year she’s been in counseling discussing what she wants to do with our marriage and that she’s come to the conclusion that she probably wants to separate and co-parent, but that she’s scared that she’d come to regret losing me in the future.

After having the BD, I am crushed, but it’s not entirely out of the blue as I’d felt her emotionally distancing for months. She says that she’s basically just fallen out of love and maybe she’s just not the type of person who should be married. I tell her we can work together to save our MR and figure out how to find love again together. She says she’s not ready to give up trying and suggests MC and I’m eager to agree. I really help it together that night, but after getting next to no sleep, the next day I was sullen and depressed—not very attractive—but it’s pretty hard to come to terms with the fact that your W just dropped the bomb on your S’s b-day. We manage to slog through the holidays for the most part. There are good days and then a few bad days where I feel very anxious and W worries that I’m having a panic attack. Typically I go for a jog or bikeride and my anxiety goes down, but sometimes it would linger and I’d get emotional, maybe on 2-3 occasions after particularly sleepless nights. I would fixate on something W had said and ask her about it and yet another talk would ensue.

At this point I was depressed about the state of our M and wondering how my W could just “fall out of love” with very little other explanation. I felt insecure about her and about myself—it was a great blow to my esteem. It did not really occur to me that our marriage would end. I was convinced that we’d be able to repair things. We went to a session of MC and the counselor was very positive and felt it was just an issue of rekindling intimacy we needed to work on, as we got along otherwise. We both felt positive about the session, but my wife wanted to follow up with a private talk with the MC. Later, W confided in me that she talked to the MC about the fact that she fantasizes about other men sometimes even though she wasn’t attracted to me and asked if this was normal. The MC said of course.

Our second MC session was cancelled by the therapist and W didn’t follow up with rescheduling an apt so that was our only involvement with MC#1. Even so, W and I were actually communicating a bit better about our feelings in early 2016, so things felt positive for a while. We both tend to be conflict-avoidant—me probably more so than she—and it felt like we were being more up front.

Things changed when W got a new p/t job in spring 2016. She started working nights and weekends at a local pub. It was her first long-term job since getting pregnant and it was good that she was getting out of the house and making some money. She often complained about being isolated and lonely being a stay at home mom and now she felt like she was contributing to the family income as well. Within a few weeks she started really taking to the new job and looked forward to the socializing. Slowly, she started transforming as she felt more at home with the people that she worked with. She started wearing less and less to work and putting more and more time into her hair and makeup and hair. She lost weight and looked amazing. Which was also a bit rough because she had told me that she wasn’t in love with me and didn’t find me attractive anymore, but was trying hard to look attractive for… the rest of the world. I tried not to feel insecure and think about it like that and reminded myself that she was just feeling more confident and that that would improve her mood.

(4/16) Slowly though her personality started to change and her attitude toward me. She seemed less patient of me and more detached. She liked to shop for clothes more and dressed a lot younger—and “trashier” as she actually put it—than she ever did in the years we were together. She said she felt anxious about getting older and that soon she would be at the age when “women don’t matter anymore” and wanted to feel and look young while she could. Right around the time of BD, she got some new tattoos. These weren’t her first ever, but are the first in the 7 years we’d been together. I would always reassure her about her looks and youth but it didn’t seem to matter much coming from her H. She is in school online for a degree that will secure a decent job for her in a couple of years, but says she’s anxious about having a serious job and wants to feel life without that pressure for as long as she can.

We had more discussions about our R and it never got better, always more dire and distant. She would say sometimes that she thought she just wasn’t the type of person who should marry. One night, after a couple of drinks, she said that she didn’t feel monogamy was natural and that she can’t fathom going the rest of her life without ever having sex with another person. These weren’t the kinds of things I had ever heard from her before. When I would bring up these talks the next day, she would always back pedal. I would ask her if she was thinking about having an affair and she would deny it. I chalked it up to the fact that she was now constantly talking/texting to an old female friend of hers. This gf has a chaotic and dramatic love life in which she is constantly dissatisfied with her lovers and cheating on them or breaking up with them in a quest to find the elusive “perfect lover.” I don’t mention my hypothesis to W, but have always noticed that she tends to mirror the friends and company that are around her at any given moment. All of this of course made me feel absolutely horrible. Who was this alien creature living in my W’s body??

Around this time, she also broke up with her IC that she’d been seeing for well over a year. The IC was frustrated that W was cancelling too many sessions and suggested W not come back until she was ready to commit. W was crushed and felt betrayed as she had thought of her C as a personal friend. She has not put any effort into finding a new IC.

She had always been an occasional pot smoker, but started to get high more often, and smoke at work. At one point she mentions doing some cocaine during work and asks me if I “want to do drugs with her.” I’m not a prude, but I feel my partying days are well behind me. I was incredulous at her suggestion as it seemed out of the blue and at a moment when we were dealing with raising a toddler, dealing with our M and jobs. Recreational drug use didn’t seem like it would contribute positively. This led to a heated argument about our priorities and what she was choosing to do with her life. With all the discussions we had had before and all the strangeness in her personality, I told her it didn’t seem like we had the same priorities in life. I accused her of having something like an MLC, and she actually said maybe that was the case. I said that I would always be her husband and love her, but I couldn’t satisfy her need for new men in her life if that’s what she needed, and I wasn’t interested in partying while raising a child and that if those were her priorities, we should separate because I didn’t want to be married to her with her always pining away for what she was missing out on.

Even though she herself had mentioned it before, hearing me say the word “separation” really triggered something in her and she spent the next day and a half on the couch crying or asleep, and took off work. She refused to talk to me and just wallowed. I hate to admit it, but for some reason this response irritated me and since she wouldn’t talk to me, I sent her an email basically reiterating the argument and telling her that I had basically grown up with a “wayward parent” in the family and wasn’t going to live like that again. I admit that that was “spewing” and didn’t help the sitch. She responded that we need to find a way to communicate better about us, and we agreed to try counseling again.

First sesh of 2nd round of counseling went very well and we felt positive that we could share how we felt. Actually went out that night for something like the first “date” since our S was born. Sadly, we tanked quickly after that.

Over the next week, W stopped letting me know when she was heading home from the late shift and just showed up hours later than normal. The second time it happened I asked her to try better to keep me in the loop so I wouldn’t worry about her heading home alone and late at night. She apologized and started to again. One afternoon though, I came home from work and she was at her wits end with our S. She said she needed to get out of the house for a bit and take a break, and I told her to go and relax and took care of bedtime. She got dressed up for a night out and said she was going to a bar, but would be back early.

Hours pass and I go to bed. After midnight our S wakes up crying and I put him back to bed. W still isn’t home. Then I hear the front door open and W clamoring in. She’s in the bathroom and I hear retching and sobbing. Immediately I fear something awful has happened and I come in to check on her. She yells at me to get out and leave her alone and that she’s embarrassed for not handling her alcohol. After she settles down, I’m angry and tell her that she needs to get a grip on her life and figure out her actions. She tells me she’s tired of being accountable to anyone. I remind her that she chose to be a mom and a wife.

(7/16) W comes home after work and is just sitting on back patio. She seems quiet but is wired and is acting strangely sweet to me. I ask her if anything is amiss and she says no, so I leave her alone and say goodnight. I wake up about 4:30 am and notice she’s still not in bed. I peer out on the back patio and she’s still out there staring at her phone. I go back to bed but can’t sleep because at this point I am incredibly anxious. When she goes to bed I get up after she falls asleep and do something I regret now. Something feels terribly wrong, so I check her phone for anything that might give me a clue to her recent behavior. I find a long series of texts back and forth to her gf over the past several weeks about a guy she occasionally works with that she has a crush on. There are pictures of him from IG and facebook she’s downloaded. There’s talk about what W says she needs in a man vs what she has at home that’s boring. She is entertaining this guy as an A partner and discussing what kind of sex life she needs. The last posts are about him making moves on her and touching her and how much she wants it and has now qualms with pursuing. Then she is frustrated because he stops advancing a few days later after he finds she’s a married mom.

Reading all this feels like a kick in the guts. I know many of you have been here. I can’t sleep and get in the car and drive for hours. When I come back and we put our S down for a nap I confront her. She admits to having a crush on the guy and says it didn’t go anywhere though. She also said that this was the one thing in her life that made her happy and is so upset that I’ve taken it away, because it was just a fantasy. I tell her it read like more than just a fantasy. She tells me that her feelings for me have now changed and that there’s too many issues in our marriage to overcome and that she wants to separate immediately. She doesn’t talk to me for two days at which point we have the same convo. At this point now I am pleading for her to find a way to get through this together but she says she’s done.

After a week of this in house sep, I spend about 5 weeks housesitting for a friend and come over evenings to watch our S. At one point, I take S on a trip to see family. When I return, at MC, W says the brief time apart we’ve had is enough to make her realize she wants out. She says tht in her mind, as far as she’s concerned, the M is over and she’s going to start living like a single woman. I ask if she wants a D and she says no because she doesn’t want to lose my insurance and benefits and financial assistance, but that D was just a technicality. This is an incredible blow. I am stunned.

Of course in all of this I am pleading for her to reconsider in all the usual ways. Arguing, persuading, using logic, etc. All the “cheesless tunnels.” I only learned about DBing a few weeks ago and have been trying to put it into practice slowly but surely. I don’t know if there has been any change on the part of my W, but I’m feeling a bit more detached and able to cope.

The new complication in our sitch is that I have moved back in (8/16). My spree of housesitting opportunities has run out. After sitting down with W, we determined that we don’t have enough income for two households unless/until she increased her salary, but she wants to continue with her school. I agreed to come back and live in separate room in our house for as long as it takes her to finish her degree, but that I won’t be in an open marriage and that I will stay for as long as neither of us is dating or involved with other people. She agreed to this and we also agreed to check in month to month to make sure the arrangement was still going well. She remains adamant in the fact that she does not want to work on repairing the marriage.

I am sorting out how to positively make use of the fact that I am back home to DB, but also dealing with the stress of being back around my WW. Have been working on detaching, GAL (hitting the gym constantly) and going out to socialize. Still figuring which 180s will work best in improving my sitch.

So happy to be closer to my S though!


Me: early 40s; W: mid-30s
S: 2.5
T: 7 M: 5
12/15: ILYBINILWY
7/16 : Seperated
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Welcome to the board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.


Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon


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Originally Posted By: CA27


The new complication in our sitch is that I have moved back in (8/16). My spree of housesitting opportunities has run out. After sitting down with W, we determined that we don’t have enough income for two households unless/until she increased her salary, but she wants to continue with her school. I agreed to come back and live in separate room in our house for as long as it takes her to finish her degree, but that I won’t be in an open marriage and that I will stay for as long as neither of us is dating or involved with other people. She agreed to this and we also agreed to check in month to month to make sure the arrangement was still going well. She remains adamant in the fact that she does not want to work on repairing the marriage.

I am sorting out how to positively make use of the fact that I am back home to DB, but also dealing with the stress of being back around my WW. Have been working on detaching, GAL (hitting the gym constantly) and going out to socialize. Still figuring which 180s will work best in improving my sitch.

So happy to be closer to my S though!



Hello CA27,

I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.

It sounds like your wife is wanting to cake eat in a major way. She wants the financial/insurance benefits of being married without being in an actual marriage.

Knowing what to do and what not to do at this point is crucial. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.

Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004


A Divorce Busting Coach can help you save your marriage, even when your spouse wants out.

Email virginia@divorcebusting.com or 303-444-7004 for more information or to get started right away.
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Thanks for the replies! This board has provided a lot of support for me as I've been lurking the past few weeks!

Yes, I do think she is wanting to eat cake. When she announced that she didn't want to get a D because of the financial reprocussions she'd face, but "wanted to start living like a single woman as soon as possible," I almost threw up. I had never heard anything so disrespectful and inconsiderate in my life, honestly. I replied that the loss of that support was what would happen if she were truly single, and being single is what she said would make her happy. I smiled when I said it but I was terse. She said I was being angry and that that was unfair. Unfortunately this was in the context of MC and our sessions have shifted now so that everyone should express their feelings honestly and everything everyone says is equally valid. On principle, this is correct, but W is using this environment to drop bombs and backtrack on things we've discussed on our own. I used to debat with her but have learned to validate but disagree. This seems to help defuse when she starts to catastrophic event but I'm also thinking of dropping MC because it's become a space to learn to accept separation and come to terms with moving into separate lives. I'm conflicted about whether to end MC because I also think it may be an opportunity to find more agreement. It's exhausting though and tends to hurt

The past few days she keeps telling me we need to have a "tough conversation," but each night something comes up for her (working late, etc.) and she puts it off. At this point though, I can't imagine things getting worse so I'm actually not that stressed about it.

My main mental conflict ion at this point is boundary setting. I told her that if she's dating or seeing other people I'm not supporting her anymore and we need to have separate households. On one hand I feel that this may be controlling and an ultimatum, but I also feel that if I let her cross that (last) boundary then the scant respect she may have for me would be gone and nothing I say henceforth would really mean Anyang. Also I would feel like a first class sucker.

At any rate, whatever she wants to talk about, I plan on validating but disagreeing honestly and keeping it short and sweet.

Thanks for listening!


Me: early 40s; W: mid-30s
S: 2.5
T: 7 M: 5
12/15: ILYBINILWY
7/16 : Seperated
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Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.

Originally Posted By: Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.

It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.

We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.

Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.


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Quote:
When she announced that she didn't want to get a D because of the financial reprocussions she'd face, but "wanted to start living like a single woman as soon as possible," I almost threw up. I had never heard anything so disrespectful and inconsiderate in my life, honestly. I replied that the loss of that support was what would happen if she were truly single, and being single is what she said would make her happy. I smiled when I said it but I was terse. She said I was being angry and that that was unfair.


Can you see how twisted her thinking has become?

Personally, I think you changed the dynamics the minute you agreed to live in a room of the house. After she explained her reasons for staying M, what did you hope to gain by giving her what she wanted? Whatever it was, strike through it, b/c it's not going to work. Living in an "in-house" separation with a wayward wife just doesn't work in favor of the H.

Have you read the threads that Cadet sent you?


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Originally Posted By: sandi2
Quote:
When she announced that she didn't want to get a D because of the financial reprocussions she'd face, but "wanted to start living like a single woman as soon as possible," I almost threw up. I had never heard anything so disrespectful and inconsiderate in my life, honestly. I replied that the loss of that support was what would happen if she were truly single, and being single is what she said would make her happy. I smiled when I said it but I was terse. She said I was being angry and that that was unfair.


Can you see how twisted her thinking has become?

Personally, I think you changed the dynamics the minute you agreed to live in a room of the house. After she explained her reasons for staying M, what did you hope to gain by giving her what she wanted? Whatever it was, strike through it, b/c it's not going to work. Living in an "in-house" separation with a wayward wife just doesn't work in favor of the H.

Have you read the threads that Cadet sent you?



Hi, Sandi, thanks for your comment. I really value your directness. I've been reading up on all your posts and they are sobering but enlightening insights. Thank you for devoting so much time to sharing your experiences for everyone.

Yes, her thinking has become incredibly twisted. Her morals have become so skewed and selfish right now it's appalling. She doesn't at all resemble the person I fell in love with or married. I am trying to wrap my head around the thinking of the WW.

In all honesty looking back, the dynamic of our R really changed with the birth of our S when W fell into some pretty heavy postpartum depression (she still may be dealing with this.) at that point everything began to revolving around W's needs and emotional states. It was a precedent that still seems to continue and I am focusing on how to change and concentrate on myself.

You are right about the different dynamic after returning home. On a certain level I think I was hoping that if I was in the house, our communication and connection might improve. So foolish of me. but it seems the opposite has happened. When We were staying apart, after I would leave from watching our S, she would inevitably text me some random question once I had left. Now she communicates even less and avoids even utilitarian conversations. I have been good about letting her initiate contact tho.

At this point I do think it would be best for everyone and the M. If she wants to live like a single independent woman, she ought to be independent and figure out how to support herself. My issue is that I agreed to the current arrangement and don't want to suddenly flip-flop and go back on my word at random. I don't like being erratic. Then again, she doesn't seem to mind going back on her word and doing whatever she pleases.

We have MC today and perhaps an opportunity will arise to address the living arrangement. I working on becoming cool and unflappable in anticipation.

I have been working my way through Cadets posts and it is helpful and eye opening. Detaching is the hardest bit. I feel like I'm having success but then realize I'm slipping up. This is like some serious Zen work!

Thanks again!


Me: early 40s; W: mid-30s
S: 2.5
T: 7 M: 5
12/15: ILYBINILWY
7/16 : Seperated
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Originally Posted By: CA27
My main mental conflict ion at this point is boundary setting. I told her that if she's dating or seeing other people I'm not supporting her anymore and we need to have separate households.


Has that boundary not been crossed already? It seems like from the texts you described there was at least some affair going on....either imaginary or otherwise.

How are you really going to know if she's "dating" anyway?

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Originally Posted By: CA27
Detaching is the hardest bit. I feel like I'm having success but then realize I'm slipping up.

Detachment is like peeling an onion.

You peel off one layer and then realize there are many more underneath.

Keep working on it.

Keep posting!


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Darkness - she definitely did cross a boundary when started flirting with someone at work that she had a crush on and tried to get them interested in her. She shared her thoughts about having an affair with her girl friend in detail. So yes, she definitely crossed the line even though it seems to have been mostly fantasy. All of those text messages are what caused the separation when I confronted her about it.

When I agreed to move back in , I said I would stay at the house for financial reasons and would do so so long as neither of us were dating or getting involved with other people. She agreed to this arrangement. You are right, Darkness, whether or not she is holding to it, I have no idea. I assume she can't or won't for very long honestly, as this appears to be the main reasons she is done with the marriage--she wants to feel new love again.

I refuse to do any snooping or spying and haven't done so since I read her texts and confronted her. I've found that putting any energy into snooping is just detrimental to my own mental state.

I have a hunch that she is about to tell me herself that she can't go on not dating or that she is seeing someone. Somehow she is convinced that she will be able to pull off some epic cake eating--that I will condone her and continue to support her. On reflection, I haven't really acted in any way to suggest otherwise to her, have I?

In hindsight, moving back in with her still adamant about not wanting to reconcile was a BAD IDEA. It's a tough lesson to learn. I am working on getting through this episode and peeling back the seemingly infinite layers of the onion of detachment...


Me: early 40s; W: mid-30s
S: 2.5
T: 7 M: 5
12/15: ILYBINILWY
7/16 : Seperated
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