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So, GAL. GAL's do make one feel better. Did Gym today for 45 minutes, felt great. Went to work - had full intention to focus, kicked the door down on focus - much done. Only logged into this site once, which is good - for most of July easily spent 3 hours here while at work. Of course, as previously mentioned - did IC today, always good GAL (PS Andrew P - very good point on the self-selecting population; my IC was referring to some things which truly do appear to be unique w/ my WW from a psychological approach - yet I have not the energy or concern for explaining at this time, beg your mercy sir). Everyone here was right, I was very hard on myself the other days - it lasted. I made a choice not to be today, it was a choice.

WW and I did have contact today. I decided to try something slightly different than in the past, but again, no energy for explaining right now.

Best GAL for today...left work - 85 degrees on the southern coast in August, a rare thing below 95 this time of year. Went skateboarding along the ocean. Listening to a podcast about overcoming an unwillingness to speak to strangers - if you have followed me, you know this has been a struggle with a goal. On way back to my vehicle stopped off at a tiki-bar, intent was water, 2 drinks - speak to whomever came near me, male or female...just...fking...converse! Male bartender, opened up small talk, he left for a customer. Female bartender walked by - stopped her, 10 minutes of talk. Woman in the bar representing a local brewery - engaged, spoke for three hours nonstop. No bathroom, no pause, no awkward silence...solid talking, had no idea that was coming. After 30 minutes, she said her husband was there to which I replied "believe me, I am the last if not only dude in this place who would betray that trust right now. Where is he, introduce me." She did and he left and her and I continued.

She was quite pretty, but its all about goals and my goal was not phone numbers, ego strokes, or hooking up. Goal was to engage strangers, see if I could. Believe me, going back into the world after the WW forces you to brush your teeth w/ sht is hard enough, being an introverted scattered mind is worse. However, as said before - challenge the self, so I did and I managed to have a good time with just talking. Home, food, dog walk. Felt good to get back to getting a life.

Won't have s4 (who will be known as s5 really soon) again until Thursday. Will miss him horrible until.


"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies.
BD: Feb '16
D: Mar '17
Piecing: Putting the self back together was my piecing.
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That's awesome work CT,

To go and speak to random people you don't know for that long and not be awkward is awesome. I don't think I could do that yet but it would be something good to aim for.

Sounds like you are good at filling out your day with little GAL activities and that is great. You sound like me when I have my D2 I feel like everything is right in the world and most of my problems disappear (probably because they keep us so busy) but when she goes back with W that's when it's much harder.

Stay strong CT you are doing awesome.


ME- 31 W-25
T-5 M-3
D2
ILYBNILWY and moved out - FEB16
W seeing someone else - JUL16
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CT1118 Offline OP
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Thanks albac. My work requires me to be very public and in front of people. This is not a problem, but it leaves me exhausted - introverts need quiet/solitude to recharge. The 1:1 talking is the worst. I have chosen to disrupt that in my life and do something different.

I want to return to something Andrew P brought up about my IC stating the uniqueness of my WW. I do see many many similarities here w/ my sitch and others. What I do think maybe different from most and what I believe my IC referred to:
- I never heard ILBNILWY. Never heard IL OM
- OM has been hidden from all family, friends (as I just found out except 2), social media, and co-workers; this has been sustained from the beginning and gone on for 8-9 months now.
- WW has repeatedly trashed and degraded OM and stated she does not "know what he is", does not "have interest in him as a man" etc. I could go on and on here.
- WW continues to lie about OM to me, despite being outed twice and could speak freely about it if she wished.
- WW still states she is in love with me and attempts to show physical affection, but does not seek the favoritism of asking me to repair/fix/provide, i.e. there is no exchange from me for her emotions.
- WW still refers to me when speaking with others as her H.
- WW states that she wants a D so that we can date again as she hates the roles society asks her to fill as a W, mother, homemaker.

I don't know. I could go on I guess. Definitely other things. I mean she is in & she is out. Why I think its MLC. But I also think I dealt a great deal of pain with my addiction to a woman who was already in pain. So, I am I plan B? Maybe. Is she MLC? Maybe. She is certainly confused as to what she wants in a way that she is wanting to move on, but also not willing to move on b/c she does not know what she wants. I have never doubted that she loves me, nor I her. What I think both her & I question is could we ever be together again as a couple. May take is yes, but we should work on it together. Her take is maybe, but we need to work on it apart.

So, the past few days since this weekend I have settled back into detachment and it is feeling more comfortable. I truly do know I will be alright if her and I never get back together. I am not sure if that disappointment would ever go away - I have read far too many D regret stories on the internet and many of them written by women who left men. Its all just such a damn shame. But my progress as a human, well that looks good. I am achieving my goals. I am even going back to work now. I only diverted from work as I felt like putting this out there.

Strength is my wish to all of us.


"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies.
BD: Feb '16
D: Mar '17
Piecing: Putting the self back together was my piecing.
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CT1118-- remind me ... is your W getting help from an IC? Can you tell if the IC is any good?

She's got a lot of long-standing, difficult personal history and psychology, and until/unless she starts to deal with those, your M will be difficult. (This dimension is what your M and my M have in common).


Me: 50, MLC/WW 45
Young kids
Nov 2015: BD1
Apr 2016: BD2
Jan 2017: W filed
Feb 2017: D final
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CT1118 Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: ForGump
CT1118-- remind me ... is your W getting help from an IC? Can you tell if the IC is any good?

She's got a lot of long-standing, difficult personal history and psychology, and until/unless she starts to deal with those, your M will be difficult. (This dimension is what your M and my M have in common).


No she is not. And you ain't kidding my friend. Difference in her and I...I have my own issues extending well before M and surely before S. However, I believe in ability of doctor's to help, and my IC is helping me. I am already more different than I could have imagined.

As an ex. of her different outlook from mine. W agreed w/ me when I wanted s4 to go to a behavioral IC 2 wks ago. His 1st meeting is tomorrow. On Saturday, W asks me what made me so sure he need to go. I said "you go to the dermatologist often. What made you think you needed to go there as opposed to letting things work themselves out on their own. This doctor is a specialist like your dermatologist and exists to help people like our son. He has been in 3 different daycares and all three have said he can't listen, he is violent with other kids, and he won't follow rules. He is 4, this is not free spirit we are dealing with, these are issues." Then she nodded and said ok.

So, Sandi and Cadet (not directly quoting either) have spoken a few times as to how, after time, the WW world will begin to collapse. I think today I saw my first big taste of that (maybe not, ya'll tell me). After my post earlier today I get an email from her (she made 1st contact, this was it). Told me she left daycare crying uncontrollably. That our son made her run late, he refused to get dressed/eat/etc. She had to force him into the car. Said last night they got kicked out of her gym after 15 min b/c s4 bit another kid, he did say a kid took his ball, but she told him that he cannot respond w/ violence. She was late for a business meeting w/ a client this morning and had no time to prepare, so she blew that. Said she looked messy and disheveled and that the past two days w/ him have been like this. She can't do anything w/out him making demands of her or constantly calling for her and she is losing it (this is true, he does that to her). She closed her email saying she was "at a loss" and that she "feels hopeless" right now.

All I could tell her was that I know she feels stressed and that I am thinking of our son and her at this time. Then I said I am here to listen if she wants to talk. Felt right to say those things and I meant it. If for nothing more than my son and her relationship.

So, I am not sure if this is the type of collapse I have read about, but it sure looked and sounded like collapse to me.


"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies.
BD: Feb '16
D: Mar '17
Piecing: Putting the self back together was my piecing.
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Man, I want to tell your W -- and mine (!!!) -- No [censored] sherlock! What did you THINK a separation or a divorce was going to do to our young kids!!!

But I won't say that.

I think this is where the literature about narcissism is helpful. My W also rejects professional help. She thinks they're all quacks. She believes they might help normal people but she's above all of that. She'd rather self-medicate and numb herself every night w/ mj. I think all of that is rooted in extreme insecurity. To get help from a professional is to open yourself up, make yourself vulnerable to some level of examination by another person. She fears judgment to an extreme degree (while being very judgmental herself). So, to protect herself from having to do that, to give herself reason to say No to help, she makes herself believe they're quacks and she's above them. Which, I believe, is a form a narcissism.

I get help from IC but I do have a healthy dose of skepticism. I believe you have to shop for one that works well with you. I don't believe everything they say or advocate. But I am humble enough to recognize that I have something to gain from talking to one.

I asked my current IC early on, "Why do you think you can help me?" She replied after brief silence, "Because I've been doing this a long time and I know something about human nature." Great answer.


Me: 50, MLC/WW 45
Young kids
Nov 2015: BD1
Apr 2016: BD2
Jan 2017: W filed
Feb 2017: D final
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Mine IS seeing a therapist. She is apparently working on things like her temper, patience, gratefulness etc. She may or may not be talking about "us" but I'd never know obviously. W has apologized for losing her temper with me (usually via text) a few hours after being ugly with me. That'd never happen if I haven't learned how to control my anger and not fight right back in the moment.

She has walked back from "I'm done" to "No, I don't want a divorce (right now)." She had a mini breakdown the other day, over her impending surgery, work, insurance, S and his therapy/school issues and of course "us." I can see steps forward, but I also see how confused she seems to be. If I stepped in it and said "I love you" or some such, I bet we'd be divorced within a few weeks.

I don't know how good my therapist is, but she's great at getting me to talk. The release is amazing for me, and she asks good questions. She gives me a female perspective. One important thing she's showed me is that, even though I've been working on it, I'm still not communicating well enough. As an introvert, it's always hard to take everything out of your head and explain it either in the details or you take for granted that some things should be obvious. I've felt awkward in trying to validate feelings, and show I'm listening instead of trying to fix and the therapist noted a few examples I gave and she said they were really good. It helps to get a seal of approval for something like that!

As for your W relationship with S, my wife hasn't broken down about it but it's obvious. She's told me she can't parent w/o me, but I CAN parent w/o her. That's something I never would've imagined. I have noticed he starts to cry and talks about Mommy's house, but he speaks so softly, and so garbled I don't know what he's saying. He could be saying I don't want to go to Mommy's house or I miss Mommy, I just can't tell but I am monitoring. All that to say, your W will likely get frustrated and cry if she can't take care of your boy. But it'll take a confluence of events for real results to show.


Me: 35 W: 32
S: 4
T: 6 M: 4
Physical Separation official: 5/21
Currently: DR/DBing, Focusing on me and son

Cheating on a good person is like throwing away a diamond and picking up a rock.
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Originally Posted By: RSG
She has walked back from "I'm done" to "No, I don't want a divorce (right now)."


That's a big step forward!

Yeah, I have no doubt I can manage living alone and taking care of my kids. Sadly, I can't see my W doing that. She really needs help.


Me: 50, MLC/WW 45
Young kids
Nov 2015: BD1
Apr 2016: BD2
Jan 2017: W filed
Feb 2017: D final
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 604
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CT1118 Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: ForGump
I think this is where the literature about narcissism is helpful. My W also rejects professional help. She thinks they're all quacks. She believes they might help normal people but she's above all of that. She'd rather self-medicate and numb herself every night w/ mj. I think all of that is rooted in extreme insecurity. To get help from a professional is to open yourself up, make yourself vulnerable to some level of examination by another person. She fears judgment to an extreme degree (while being very judgmental herself). So, to protect herself from having to do that, to give herself reason to say No to help, she makes herself believe they're quacks and she's above them. Which, I believe, is a form a narcissism.


Interesting point FG. I am going to think about it.

Originally Posted By: RSG
As an introvert, it's always hard to take everything out of your head and explain it either in the details or you take for granted that some things should be obvious. I've felt awkward in trying to validate feelings, and show I'm listening instead of trying to fix and the therapist noted a few examples I gave and she said they were really good. It helps to get a seal of approval for something like that!


RSG - progress on the WW saying that! About the introvert thing; that's it brother, that is it. It is awkward to validate, not try to fix while easy to over-explain and think the world is obvious. You nailed it. Part of why my W left, she said as much, she just never connected it to my introversion.

So on the "try to fix part". Yesterday I spoke of talking to a stranger woman for 3 hours. At some point I had mentioned having a son enough to where she asked my story. I told her. She started crying. I said "are you crying over my story or am I reminding you of something from your own life?" She answered both and then she told me of an EA she had that almost tore her and her H apart. I asked her what led to that and she said, "the number one thing guys do that all women hate - he tried to fix everything. He would never just listen, only repair. Women want men to listen sometimes." "Sometimes." I said. "But sometimes you want us to be men and take care of business, how should we know when to do one over the other?" She replied "if its my car, fix it, if its my friend, or family, or work - just listen." So there is my passing of advice boys. Stands out in my head because it made a lot of sense about me. Exactly why I had no advice for my W today when she was upset, I just listened.


"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies.
BD: Feb '16
D: Mar '17
Piecing: Putting the self back together was my piecing.
S6


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Originally Posted By: CT1118
She replied "if its my car, fix it, if its my friend, or family, or work - just listen."


Getting it tattooed on the insides of my eyelids.


Me: 50, MLC/WW 45
Young kids
Nov 2015: BD1
Apr 2016: BD2
Jan 2017: W filed
Feb 2017: D final
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