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Albac-- I think you understand this, but just so I'm clear, I definitely did not feel like we were a normal family. We were civil, and at a few times even friendly to each other, but it was very clear that we were not "together," and I'm sure neither me nor my WW was any delusion that we were, although there were a few small bits of cake eating. If I think about it, it breaks my heart, as I want my kids to have nothing but Mommy and Daddy that love each other. Just a few short months ago we were very affectionate to each other, and our kids used to tease us for being so affectionate. The adults in the other families on the trip also knew what we were going through. (It was a day trip, albeit a long one). I would guess our kids perceived subconsciously the separation between me and my W, but on the surface they probably did not see anything abnormal.

I am prepared to let my W go. But it just eats me up to do this to my kids.

I'm still hazy on what a "family" should be like. I want to assure my kids that after the divorce, we will still be a family in the sense that my wife and I will work together to co-parent. But obviously the four of us won't be a single unit, and won't do everything together.


Me: 50, MLC/WW 45
Young kids
Nov 2015: BD1
Apr 2016: BD2
Jan 2017: W filed
Feb 2017: D final
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 185
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Gump, I understand and I know how sad it all is.

I'll ask you a question I ask myself a lot. If you take your children out of the picture how do you see your thoughts and actions? The same or different?

I ask myself that question and think we'll without kids involved this person has broken my heart and treated me like a piece of trash. And I would want nothing to do with them. I then ask myself the question that is that's how I feel am I lying to myself or prolonging the inevitable by continuing down the path I'm on.

So many questions but I know I'm the same as you Gump. Our W's have no respect for us and I am slowly turning the tables on that because I am no longer afraid of losing her. She's already gone.


ME- 31 W-25
T-5 M-3
D2
ILYBNILWY and moved out - FEB16
W seeing someone else - JUL16
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Just reading you post albac, I know if it wasn't for my kids I would be long gone. I know that I've been trying to fix this because of the kids. Thinking my W will see what and how disconnected she is with them. I think I hurt more for their loss than my own, especially my 3 yr old daughter. My W was such a dedicated mother to our son, loved spending time alone with him. Now she doesn't want one on one time with her daughter. I tried suggesting that a few months ago but she turned it down. My daughter regularly tells me that she needs me, that I am the best and that she wants to stay with me. It strikes me in good and bad ways everytime.

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I think all the time about how ready I am to let go and not take this abuse. I would live an otherwise pretty good bachelor life. My hesitation is that I know that it would hurt my son on many levels. I keep trying to tell myself to gut this out and when there is no choice left, we can always go that route.


- m and ww in 30s
- s4
- m 11 yrs, t12
-ilybinilwy ~5/16 + request for OM
- bd 7/16, confirm ea and strongly suspected pa
- 9/16 ww claimed to have broken contact with om
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There is a lot of focus here on the kids and trying to keep the M going for them.

My kids are grown adults and will survive this probably better than I will.

So albac for me the kids are out of the picture. Why am I trying so hard to save my M? Why am I putting up with pain and sorrow? I'm doing it because I love my W. I'm doing it because I remember the 26 years of a wonderful love story. I'm doing it because I hope that this is just a bump in the road. I'm doing it because she was my best friend and I will not abandon her.

This is counter to 90% of the advice that I see here but I say - don't do it for the kids. Do it because you feel that it is the right thing for you, your W and your family.


On BD
H52, W50
T27, M26
S21, D23
BD-9-Mar-16
D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18
I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good.
But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
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AndrewP -- I tell myself I'm doing it for the kids, and that's certainly true. Some kids do perfectly well in a divorce scenario, but a lot of them don't. They are endangered by what my W says she wants, and I fight for the M, in part, because I can't anymore sit here and let them be endangered in this way than I can let any other known danger menace them.

But it is also for me. If I didn't still love my W and believe very strongly that we could get through this period and emerge on the other side in something we both could enjoy and thrive in, I would likely not be fighting. I'd still be very scared that my kids would be $#@%ed up by the divorce, but I'd have already given in, I think.

Now, where the one stops and the other starts, I'm not sure. Do I overstate my child-protection efforts because I don't want to face full-on the fact that I'm chasing a woman who doesn't want me? Probably some of that going on, if I'm honest.


Me: 46
W: 44
Married: 17
Together 21
D13; S10
BD: 03.03.15 (Not attracted to you)
Almost 2 years trying, alone, to save marriage
Status now: Divorced (effective 06.13.17)
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Jruss and Andrew are right; despite the anger and pain, we do love our wives. It would be easier if we didn't...


- m and ww in 30s
- s4
- m 11 yrs, t12
-ilybinilwy ~5/16 + request for OM
- bd 7/16, confirm ea and strongly suspected pa
- 9/16 ww claimed to have broken contact with om
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Posts: 1,387
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Originally Posted By: albac
If you take your children out of the picture how do you see your thoughts and actions?


When my W and I met and dated, we had a falling out and broke up for about 4 months. That was the most excruciating emotional pain I had felt in my life. The first two months ... I was like a zombie, and was drinking too much (I'm not a heavy drinker, so it doesn't take much for me to be drinking "too much" for me). By the end of that period, I felt like I had been run over by a truck but was on my way to recovery, when, by a bit of luck, I ran into her again and we re-connected.

When she told me this time that she wanted a divorce, the depression and despair felt different to me. I can't say it was less or more. In the earlier breakup, I felt all my hopes were destroyed. This time, it felt like a life I had woven together w/ her were singed to black coal. This, despite having had many, many frustrations about her as a partner and a lover over all those married years. In fact, early in our marriage, I was surprised by many facets of her personality, and wondered whether we were going to make it.

This is a long of saying that if kids were not in the picture, I think I would have suffered just as greatly to let her go. But with kids involved, I feel like have two giant mountains to climb over. One for myself and one for my kids.


Me: 50, MLC/WW 45
Young kids
Nov 2015: BD1
Apr 2016: BD2
Jan 2017: W filed
Feb 2017: D final
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 523
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This really made me think. I can't say I want to try to get my M back on track for my S. He's PART of it. He's what keeps me in my lane, keeps me from giving up, keeps me focused on MYSELF. But strictly for him? No. Though his Mom loves him, and worries about him like she always did, your note about not being a dedicated mother anymore hits me hard. W has allowed him to get sunburns because she's not paying attention to him. She'll sit around on her phone, whereas she used to be such a helicopter parent she'd worry about THAT!

Now, my boy is something of Daddy's little guy. I try to be both Mom and Dad for him, being fun, letting him being independent but dropping everything when he cries out, kissing him when he gets a little bump, etc etc. He runs to me like he never did before. W is getting herself back. I see it and hear it. She's doing positive things like church, counseling and just became part of a mentoring program for elementary school age kids. But I still don't see Super Mom that I knew and loved.

I love this woman. Like I did? No. Can I again? Yes, if I continue to see the progress I've noticed in 3mos. It's not at the pace I'd like it, but it is progress....


Me: 35 W: 32
S: 4
T: 6 M: 4
Physical Separation official: 5/21
Currently: DR/DBing, Focusing on me and son

Cheating on a good person is like throwing away a diamond and picking up a rock.
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Wow, a lot of great responses to that question. I'm fighting for my W bc of two things:

1) I'm not willing to introduce the uncertainty a divorce brings into the life of my D9 without a fight. I know it's far from certain that a divorce will put her in a worse spot, but if there's something I can do to salvage the M and remove all that uncertainty, I'm surely going to try. But salvaging the M means a lot more than just having a M on paper. It means fixing all these issues w/ myself and my W that have been lurking under the surface for years. Without that, there's no benefit in my mind to being in the M solely for my D.

2) I just flat out still love my W. Don't get me wrong, I don't love this current version of my W, but if there's any chance of getting back the previous version I'd definitely fight for that. A lot of damage has been done w/ my whole situation, but no one I've spoken with yet views it as un-fixable, except for my W. I hold out hope that I can rekindle what we once had and for now am working DB'ing to see if it can get us up off the mat.

With both of those said, if there's no hope, there's no hope. A lot of this relies on W waking up at some point and realizing this is not the right move. Then on top of that, she needs to be willing to work hard to fix things. If she's not willing to do that, then even w/ my D in the picture, it's a non-starter unfortunately. We'll just need to be civil, and active co-parents. [censored], but that's where most of us seem to be.


Me39
M11 : T13
D9
BD 5/31/16
In House S until 6/21/17
Divorced 10/5/18
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