Am I on the wrong bicycle?

[HaWho]

And one last thing; just curious, did one of her parents lead a double life?

[Cadet]

I am going to add in some other info that may or may not be helpful.

MLC is driven by depression, their are two basic types
Overt which is obvious depression.
And covert which is masked or hidden depression.
So when she does nothing it is possible that the depression is speaking or keeping her from acting.
IE the lawyer.

And as HaWho has said the different children you may see in her are classic signs of MLC, and also complicate each story when different ages are encountered.

There are different stages that each child must go through to grow up.
So depending how far back the trama is that they must fix may influence how long it takes them to grow up.

I will leave it at that for now.

[job]

Hi Andrew!

I also experienced the two bomb punch. Your situation is very similar to some long ago posters that posted here.

Your wife, in my opinion, is not a WAW. She's exhibiting confusion and depression. Depression is the main ingredient help to make up the mix for MLC. As for day-to-day goes, she operates purely on emotions. You can't rationalize w/someone who emotionally charged.

Your wife isn't sure she wants to actually end the marriage w/you. She became extremely good friends w/the OM because she felt she needed someone to talk to, to lean on and yes, he was providing attention to her as well as stroking her ego. She enjoyed what attention he was providing to her. Being w/a younger man boosted her sagging ego even though he's not all that great in your opinion. To her, he was her trusted and loyal friend. He basically became her crutch and generally they get involved w/people who are the opposite of the LBS. So, I'm not surprised they basically "latched" on to each other. I'm sure she did feel guilty and remorseful for what she was doing.

Even though you gave your wife many opportunities to leave, she was afraid to do so in the beginning. She wasn't ready to leave the comfort of her home and the stability that you provided. Yes, they do tend to make plans to have homes renovated, make plans for trips, etc. (even at this stage) because they are confused and they want to keep one toe in your pond and the other in the om's pond. In other words, she wants to keep her options open in case she's not happy w/the cold, cruel world out there.

When BD2 took place, your wife was stronger in her thinking and was seriously thinking that she could make it on her own and began pushing you to see a lawyer. Why wait until she moved out? Confusion and she wasn't sure what she wanted when she lived w/you. In her mind, after she moved out, the only way to actually move on and truly be free of you and the relationship was to see a lawyer. BTW, once they are absolutely sure they want to separate/divorce, they do become angry w/us. They need justification for what they are doing and feeling the way that they are. We become the authority figures that they need to break free of. To them, we are the problem, hence the angry is spewed toward us.

Once they move out, they generally do not share this info w/family and friends because they don't want to hear that they are making the biggest mistake of their lives. They don't want to be questioned/challenged about their decisions. As for the om, the one she's seeing may not be the only one that she dates. As she moves along the path, she may opt to date others.

As she walks the path, if you have contact w/her, don't be shocked by her appearance. She may lose weight, change her hairstyle and color, tattoos, piercings, her taste in music may change, i.e., in other words, she will become the opposite of the woman you knew. You may even witness some different personalities, i.e., as HaWho mentioned. This is all part of going back to a time in her childhood where she was emotionally stunted by an authority figure. She needs to go back there, face those issues, accept that she was not at fault and can't change what happened and hopefully grow up. This will take a long time to happen.

The MLC can be very concerned about appearances to others. She doesn't want the "adultery" word placed in the divorce papers even if it's what she did. She wants to look like the good gal and you are the bad guy. Also, some MLCers tend to push and shove for a divorce and then drag their heels on everything which makes it far more frustrating for the LBS. Generally when this happens the LBS will continue to provide documents/data to the lawyers and begin to push on for the divorce after a lengthy period. Some LBS will let things simmer and wait it out and then eventually file themselves. It all depends upon the damage the MLCer creates while orbiting the earth.

Do they really want a divorce? Sometimes they do, but most just want to be left alone to experience life and what they think that they missed out at a younger age. In their minds, they think we will stay right where they left us and be able to return at some point and pick up where they left off w/us. They tend to forget the ages of their children (another common symptom)because their clocks are very slow and they don't realize that the years are flying by.

Andrew, MLC is a very unique challenge for both the MLCer and the LBS. We are the uninvited guest on their trip and unfortunately, we were never told what to expect. Both parties are tossed on the boat of self discovery. I know that you are trying to analyze and understand what is going on. We all do that for a long period of time. Take this time to read all you can on MLC and visit the many threads that are here. The more you understand that depression drives the MLC train, the better you will understand that it's not about you, but all about her and what she needs to do to find herself.

There is one more thing I would like to touch on. Therapy is great if they go, but they will only cherry pick what they want from the sessions. Some will only go once or twice just to appease the LBS. Some will continue on w/therapy, but that generally happens very late in the crisis when they are a bit more emotionally stable. Others will seek professional help and obtain AD's only to take them for a short period of time because they aren't working the way the MLCer thought they should. AD's will help just a bit because they take the edge off the depression just a bit, but they won't fix them.

FYI...It is not unusual for your spouse to enter MLC, navigate the crisis and either begin to come out or has completed the crisis and then discovers that his/her spouse has entered a MLC. We've had several cases of this happen over the last 17 years.

This journey is not a sprint, it's a marathon. Dig deep for patience and always, always try to remember...you didn't break her, therefore you can't fix her.

Try to keep the focus on you and btw, don't worry about what your inlaws think about you or the situation. Blood is thicker than water and until they witness their daughter's behavior long term, they won't get it.

Continue to post and definitely continue to ask questions.

[AndrewP]

Thank you yet again everyone for the thoughtful responses and to those who have silently read.

And one last thing; just curious, did one of her parents lead a double life?

Absolutely. It turns out that her father was somewhat of a legend among his co-workers for being wayward. There is at least one love child that we know about which was a major issue for W and her siblings when their father almost died a couple of years ago. Even now in his mid 80s my FIL is constantly hitting on women. My MIL suffered through it since it was one of those "open secrets".

W always made a point of being disgusted by the waywardness of her father (and both of her siblings). She would go on at length pre A about them and any other waywards she happened to know and proclaim with pride how faithful she had been.

Being w/a younger man boosted her sagging ego even though he's not all that great in your opinion. To her, he was her trusted and loyal friend. He basically became her crutch and generally they get involved w/people who are the opposite of the LBS.

He's definitely (as far as I know) nothing like me but as far as I'm aware is a quiet responsible semi-retired business person with limited interests. I'm also a quiet responsible person but with wide ranging interests. He's also at least in his early 60s so about 10 years older than us. Not sure if it's relevant or not but when he buried his W a couple of years ago after she died of brain cancer it was in a single plot as if he didn't intend to spend eternity next to her (mind reading!) No clue if he had been faithful to her or not and not relevant to me.

When BD2 took place, your wife was stronger in her thinking and was seriously thinking that she could make it on her own and began pushing you to see a lawyer.

Actually BD2 came as a shock to her. A few days after that because she told me very clearly that she was leaving I did up a budget that broke out who would pay for what and emailed it to her. She saw the email at work and came home an absolute wreck and broke down saying she couldn't make it on her own. I sat with her and told her that I had confidence she could do whatever she set her mind to. She then went and spent the night with OM (said she needed to be "alone" to think) and the talk of leaving stopped for a while.

In her mind, after she moved out, the only way to actually move on and truly be free of you and the relationship was to see a lawyer. BTW, once they are absolutely sure they want to separate/divorce, they do become angry w/us.

I suspect she was unhappy about the L meeting and some of the hard truths she would have been told which is why (to the best of my mind-reading) nothing has happened after it. I have an unprovable theory that she was somewhat pushed into leaving by her brother and some of her friends as well as into seeing a L - not that it matters.

As for the om, the one she's seeing may not be the only one that she dates. As she moves along the path, she may opt to date others.

Yep - trying to prepare myself for that.

The MLC can be very concerned about appearances to others. She doesn't want the "adultery" word placed in the divorce papers even if it's what she did. She wants to look like the good gal and you are the bad guy.

And here I am being a "good guy".

Do they really want a divorce? Sometimes they do, but most just want to be left alone to experience life and what they think that they missed out at a younger age. In their minds, they think we will stay right where they left us and be able to return at some point and pick up where they left off w/us. They tend to forget the ages of their children (another common symptom)because their clocks are very slow and they don't realize that the years are flying by.

This is where none of us, probably even her have any clue where she is on this journey. Pre BD1 (I'm leaving) she did get a tattoo (one small discrete one), started walking obsessively and hung out with a "younger" (late 30s / early 40s) crowd who were very into partying, drinking wine and trash talking their husbands. She also got very frustrated / angry about some things that had been very important to her such as volunteering with a youth group. Between BD1 and BD2 she went into a massive depression and spent a "lot" of time with a couple of her friends including spending a weekend with one where she came back even more depressed than she left. After BD2 (me finding out about OM) her walking decreased dramatically although her weight loss continued somewhat but many of the other behaviours stopped except for her increasing her drinking alone at home (a couple of bottles of wine / week) - she used to "never" drink alone - was terrified of it. She was heavily depressed for a few weeks but then her "cockiness" increased up to an "I'm on top of the world" level up to BD2.1 (when I gave her the "please reconcile" letter). After BD2.1 the depression got a lot worse and she began having real problems coping with day to day things both at home and at work. After she moved out - I'm not sure. There were a couple of what I considered "cry for help" posts on Facebook that I didn't respond to and then I shut down looking because of the pain it caused me to see her suffering. From what her best friend said to me (unsolicited) last weekend and from what her boss told me a couple of weeks before (I asked how she was doing) she is struggling with all aspects of her life right now.

The more you understand that depression drives the MLC train, the better you will understand that it's not about you, but all about her and what she needs to do to find herself.

Irrelevant perhaps but this story helped me a lot at the beginning of my own journey. It's stolen from one of W and my favourite authors, Terry Pratchett. In his story two main characters are trapped in a hall of mirrors. They are told that the only escape they have is to find the "real" one. The one character immediately starts running to and fro searching. The other looks down at her own boots and says "this one'.

There is one more thing I would like to touch on. Therapy is great if they go, but they will only cherry pick what they want from the sessions.

She's rejected therapy all along but perhaps because I suggested it. I do know that she did a "lot" of research into local therapy options - it seems that most of her friends have therapists.

FYI...It is not unusual for your spouse to enter MLC, navigate the crisis and either begin to come out or has completed the crisis and then discovers that his/her spouse has entered a MLC.

I've become worried about this - I know that I'm in a delicate state and worry about making rash decisions. I haven't yet but I'm keeping a close watch on myself and I think that my SIL are too.

This journey is not a sprint, it's a marathon. Dig deep for patience and always, always try to remember...you didn't break her, therefore you can't fix her.

Try to keep the focus on you and btw, don't worry about what your inlaws think about you or the situation. Blood is thicker than water and until they witness their daughter's behavior long term, they won't get it.

Continue to post and definitely continue to ask questions.

One of the toughest things for many of us LBH is the feeling of helplessness thinking that we should be "doing" something, anything to "fix" this. It's a tough lesson to learn that the "fix" is to leave it alone and let it heal on its own.

[Jack_Three_Beans]

Stop, monitoring her...

Got whacked with the 2X4s, did that, got whacked a few more times for good measure.

: ) THAT wasn't a 2x4.

Repeatedly saying the same thing isn't a whack. Wanting to reach through the computer and strangle me is a 2x4. Ask Eric. : )

About the 2x4's they are a tool to hopefully wake someone up to bad behaviour on their part.

IF I call you fat, and you are not fat, or are but don't care, it won't hurt you, no sting.

IF I call you fat and you are fat and you don't like being fat, it'll hurt and sting.

IF something stings, you owe it to yourself to determine why and hopefully do something about it.


About the whole wanting to keep tabs on your wife...or husband for others here.

We all did it, provision being that maybe a few very small few didn't, but enough of us did that it might as well be all.

We tell you not to because we KNOW the pain it WILL bring...not might bring...but WILL.

You really don't need to know the details of what she is doing, or even who. This doesn't help you with doing your own thing and just causes set backs. Your job right now, is to weather out her MLC.

Knowledge isn't always power, sometimes knowledge is just pain.

None of that was a 2x4, it was just advice with the reasoning behind it.

Hope your day is a great one Andrew.

You have a lot of information to digest here, a lot of good advice backed by a lot of first hand experience.

[Cadet]

Knowledge isn't always power, sometimes knowledge is just pain.

Hmmmm - I heard that!!

[cat04]

Andrew,

Like the others, I wanted to think about this as well..

I also want you to know I haven't read anyone else's responses...let's see what happens..

- After W told me she was leaving and both before and after I discovered her A I gave her multiple opportunities to leave even suggesting that we cancel an insurance policy on me that would not be necessary if she left to provide her with seed money. She was horrified and pushed aggressively against that or any other step I suggested that was irreversible. On the other hand even after BD1 she was talking about bringing tradesmen in to work on the house and getting our wills updated (which I put a stop to because she had said she was leaving).

It is actually natural. It is simply a part of the confusion of not really being able to commit to one particular path.

- Why did W play the martyr moving herself out of the MBR after BD2 making her life complex and painful when she could have done whatever she wanted and easily manipulated me. She knows she can do this and has before to get what she wants. This follows none of the scripts as I understand them. A trivial example of martyrdom was her toothbrush. We have 2 bathrooms one in the MBR and one downstairs. Every evening for 4 months W would timidly knock on the MBR door and ask if it was OK for her to go through to clean her teeth. She would then (generally) walk through looking straight ahead, do her thing and then leave either looking straight ahead or away from me. Usually she would politely return my good-nights. On rare occasions she would engage me in conversation and be cheerful but that was maybe just an "up" day.

My X moved out of the bedroom but left his stuff in the master bath. Until I said something about it. Actually, I posted here about it and then he moved his stuff. Which tells me he was reading here. Watching what I was doing. Which is something they do.

- W never showed any anger at me or blamed me for anything even when she was at a phase where she was so very proud and scornful. Even when she really tried she could come up with no answer on why she wanted out of the marriage other than that she didn't want us to end up like her parents, old and bickering at each other all the time. Again - not to any script out there that I've seen. 27 years is a lot of history that could be re-written.

I believe that the amount of anger and rewriting we actually hear and see depends on how much you are challenging them and pushing for answers.

- After BD2 when the A was discovered W became progressively more honest and transparent with me with regards to her movements etc around any of the times that I could have expected to see her even WRT to OM which she knew caused me great pain and seemed to pain her too.

They begin to feel since you know, they have nothing to hide. This isn't as common as the deceptions or being told "it's none of your business" however it is still possible.

Why did W wait for months and months before getting a proper meeting with a L and only did so after she moved out? She did initially push me to see one saying that she already had (was free county general advice). My theory on this was she wanted me to push her out. After she left she saw a L (and knew I was ready with D papers) why has nothing come out of that in over a month?

Seeing a lawyer is a commitment to an act. Again part of the confusion and refusal to face reality.

Now that she's moved out, why is she still keeping our separation quiet? She is I believe still wearing not just her wedding band but also her engagement diamond, eternity band and family ring. I've not had confirmation on that since shortly after she left though. She certainly hasn't for example updated her "relationship status" and when talking to my barber she clearly identified herself as AndrewP's wife - which she would have done pre-BD - when it was completely un-necessary to make that connection.

See above. Although if she has "new friends", they are more than likely aware that she is single.

- Up to June 4th she would see OM quite regularly and on that day "something" happened that made her very angry. After that I actually thought the A was over because she never "seemed" to be taking opportunities to be with OM. Why not? It would have been so easy for her to do? She was still seeing him but there were no further overnight visits nor her long "walks" which were her prior cover story.

- Even now that she's moved out originally I was still somewhat monitoring her movements and she seemed to rarely take obvious advantage of chances to be with OM. It's almost as if they're just dating.

They probably are just dating. Parts of the things they say are true, like needing time and space, and parts not so much.

Why is OM - who according to W on BD2 was infatuated with her and very very serious not being more open about the A and introducing her to his kids etc. My mind-reading tells me that this hasn't happened because W in talking about OM's son (who works for the family business delivering to her store) has a definite line between the two (long story about why I believe this). Speculation and mind-reading tells me that she has told him to keep it secret too.

You really don't know what is happening in their relationship. Although again, it may not be a serious as the monster that you are imagining in your head.

When W left the house was systematically stripped of things of value (I believe much of that to be her brother's doing) and of stuff that W actually needed. It was done in a great hurry by someone who isn't organized at the best of times. The day after she left she did come back on my suggestion for waffles and the toaster (I don't use them). But she's not come back for anything else. It would be easy - she knows my schedule and I'm not there much of the time. There are things that she's surely felt the lack of as well as important papers she would need for a L and she has now seen that I've packed up a lot of her stuff and put it in the enclosed front porch.

The day may come when she asks for those things. It is often done without much thought. That leads to the idea that maybe she left stuff because she might someday also return.

W told me that she would continue to be part of the family finances and deposit her pay into our joint bank account but hasn't - no big shock there. But she also has "never" spent any money out of that account to support her A activities or set up her new life even though she knows that there are saving set aside for emergencies and vacation that she could use without hurting me at all. The amount of her pocket money that must have gone to pay for gas is staggering.

My X didn't destroy finances either although he did have his own money. Just another bump on the rollercoaster ride.

Trivial perhaps but a couple of days ago "someone" who could only have been W came to the house and watered the flower beds but didn't go inside. Mind-reading tells me that it was a false start of some sort.

I wouldn't think a false start. I actually have a friend who used to post here who had similar things happen to his rosebushes each year. Was it his W or was it his neighbor? He never asked anyone if they did it so no one knows.

If it was her...it was simply her tending to something that she probably did in the past. And just another thing for you to scratch your head about.

A bit over a week ago I noticed on Facebook that it appeared that one of W's friends had outed her about OM - she hadn't. I texted W brusquely about this for clarification before I over-reacted and rather than ignoring it, telling me to go to hell etc immediately went into overdrive on damage control. Her response text to me also indicated that she felt that only people that I had told and identified to her knew about the A and no-one else (which is not true). But again it implies that she is keeping a tight lid on the A and OM.

If everyone knows...she is going to look like the bad guy in the relationship. Often they simply don't want that.

When we talked and she told me she was moving out she was horrified first that I already had the D papers filled out and even more horrified that they listed adultery as the grounds. She expressed a lot of concern that it would then be public knowledge that she had cheated.

This bolded part answers many of your questions.

One theory that I have is that W might feel that if she "runs out the clock" for 1 year that she can get a no-fault divorce and her A would still be a "secret". If that were the case though she would have made the separation public already, been happy when the date I gave her from my L was BD2 and not move-out day and started openly seeing OM.

Interesting theory. Too much worry about her thinking and trying to make it make sense.

Here is the thing...

You are thinking about how YOU would do things. We think we know what our spouses are thinking because we know them so well, but I promise you that no one really knows the thought process that occurs in someone else's head.

[AndrewP]

About the whole wanting to keep tabs on your wife...or husband for others here.

We all did it, provision being that maybe a few very small few didn't, but enough of us did that it might as well be all.

We tell you not to because we KNOW the pain it WILL bring...not might bring...but WILL.

You really don't need to know the details of what she is doing, or even who. This doesn't help you with doing your own thing and just causes set backs. Your job right now, is to weather out her MLC.

Knowledge isn't always power, sometimes knowledge is just pain.

None of that was a 2x4, it was just advice with the reasoning behind it.

Hope your day is a great one Andrew.

You have a lot of information to digest here, a lot of good advice backed by a lot of first hand experience.

Jack - thank you so much again. The message is heard loud and clear. For my own sanity I've stopped monitoring her in any fashion more than a week ago. Sadly it took asking my relatively uninvolved SILs to keep an eye on her Facebook activity and ears open for rumours to do that but we each find our own coping mechanisms. I still find myself tempted and have to distract myself and remind myself that others are watching her for me and that I need to be watching myself.


cat04 - thank you for doing a fresh read-through without the other answers biasing you. A lot of what you said agrees with others but you raised a point or two that other's didn't so I'll respond to that part.

I believe that the amount of anger and rewriting we actually hear and see depends on how much you are challenging them and pushing for answers.

And I never really did challenge her much. Between BD1 and BD2 I would have some episodes of sobbing at her and begging her to tell me why she felt she had to leave but that was about it. After finding this place and reading MWD's excellent book I didn't push for any answers. W also made it plain to me several times that she didn't "have" any answers and was trying to figure that out herself. She did say that she envied my ability to write and speak. I hope she's not found me here and seen the drivel that comes off my keyboard Although there were times before she left that she'd act in a way that could indicate that she had followed me. I do believe that she is monitoring me very closely <rambling justification for this statement redacted>.

See above. Although if she has "new friends", they are more than likely aware that she is single.

No new friends as far as I am aware - it's a small village and she's already friends with almost everybody.

Too much worry about her thinking and trying to make it make sense.

Here is the thing...

You are thinking about how YOU would do things. We think we know what our spouses are thinking because we know them so well, but I promise you that no one really knows the thought process that occurs in someone else's head.

Boy - I've really learned that a lot especially in the last few days thanks to the kind responses here on the MLC forum.

[cat04]

Andrew,

I did it not so I wouldn't be biased but because I wanted you to see how similar the responses are.

Sadly,or not, we all said basically the same thing in different ways.

The major differences, are based on our individual experiences and beliefs.

We each have our own story with common threads. No two MLC's are alike. Because no two people are alike.

One other thought on the anger...

It is possible that the amount of anger also comes from how hard they think they have to be in order to push us away. Sometimes because of us and sometimes because of them.

MLC never comes out of the blue. They marinade for a long time before we ever get the bomb.

So...

Are you ready to start your work yet or do you have more questions?

I have finished baking my brain in psychology courses for the day now I am off to work.

Have a great afternoon!

[AndrewP]

Are you ready to start your work yet or do you have more questions?

I have finished baking my brain in psychology courses for the day now I am off to work.

Have a great afternoon!

cat04 - the work is already started and I'm working on me. I can't do anything about W except prepare myself for a future that may or may not include her and I know that I still have a long way to go no matter which twist the path takes.

Thanks again so much and have a great afternoon yourself.