Trying to detach - ugh...

[Coly23]

As the post says, trying but not brilliantly! I think the physical separation makes it easier and I am not desperately wanting to text him anymore but I can't stop thinking about what he is doing/thinking about and if the offish way I acted the other day when he dropped D back may have made things worse. I believe I'm supposed to be lovingly distant but I think I probably just looked like a rabbit in headlights!

My D and me are off for a well earned break tomorrow with my sister and her family according to D, H is going to stay with one of his friends who lives in a different country (he was one if our best men). I think his wife and kids are over here visiting her family as I think he has to work. I'm quite pleased H is going over there as his friend is a lively guy and won't lead him astray. I hope he has a lovely break too. I think we all need some time away from it all.

I know, I know, so I have a long way to go... :0(


http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2692514#Post2692514

[Coly23]

Thanks Cadet! :0)

[Cherry]

It isn't easy. Not in the slightest. And I think if we thought it was, we would be in utter denial.

But like any kind of issue, you're on the right track of you can identify your faults and start to do something about them. You aren't sat feeling sorry for yourself, refusing to get out of bed. But you're doing the right things, you're taking a lovely vacay with your d, and I hope you have the best time and start to gain focus. A beak away and change of scenery do the world of good. A few months back during one of my h's many dips in and out of our r, me and my best gf took a trip to Paris. The day we arrived, I cried my eyes out in the shower, I was a mess. After just one day of sightseeing and having a great time with my girl, I was feeling so much more focused, relaxed and full of life. I came back with a much better energy.

Just take it hour by hour, day by day. See the beauty in the day, and focus on you and your d.

I'm rooting for you

[Buxom]

About the denial, Well said cherry!

[Coly23]

Thanks Cherry, trying to be excited but I keep getting there waves of sadness.

Found out via FB that the wife of H's friend is going to be home when H goes over so H is spending a lovely holiday with their family and not his own! If his friend is working then he will be going around sight seeing with the wife and her kids. I'm so jealous and annoyed I'm spitting feathers!

The other reason I am annoyed is because the wife was always nice to my face but behind my back I know she isn't keen on me and I think the reason is that she tried to set H up with her best friend just as we were getting together and I don't think she has ever forgiven me for foiling her plan! I can imagine she will be gloating that he has left me!!

[ForGump]

Enjoy your holidays!

[hawker]

Sorry Coly.... . It is hard to detach for me as well.... I just try to take it day by day. It helps me to read here since we all are going through the same thing sadly.

[Coly23]

Well just got back from my holiday. Had a lovely time and only a few alcohol fuelled tears but on the whole I think I did a pretty good job of enjoying myself. It felt good not to have to want to contact my H, I didn't have the urge at all. The only issue was my D texting H to say we missed him - ugh - so much for going dark!

So today is also my sixth wedding anniversary as well. Pretty much held it together so far but feel so sad. I would love to know what my H is thinking today too. Does the spouse who walked away feel sadness on a day like this or do they pretty much ignore it, anyone know?

[Cherry]

There's never any knowing what they think. Today is my anniversary, and my lack of expectations had really helped me. I don't think for one minute that he will actually think about it. But like I say, you can never really tell. It's doubtful they would ever let you know regardless. Just try and see it as any other day, not a special date.
Glad you enjoyed your vacay! Do you feel more refreshed? A bit more detached?

[Coly23]

Hi Cherry, gosh your anniversary today too! I expect that must be very difficult to have no expectations especially with you and your H still living together?

I didn't really expect anything from him or even for him to acknowledge it and I'm not sure if it would be appropriate anyway even if he did. I just feel so sad about it especially as this time last year we were holiday as a family...

I do feel refreshed and so happy I went away especially as my D had a fantastic time with her cousins. Not sure how I am doing on the detaching. I've not spoken too or seen him since the Thursday before we went on holiday and that was just a very quick exchange in the hallway when he brought D back. Apparently when she as with him he asked her lots of questions about how I was and what I was up to etc. Fishing..? Or can you have a temp check through someone else?

Not sure I am detaching very well though as currently having a few tears as I still miss him so much especially today...

[Cherry]

Be kind with yourself, accept that it's painful, acknowledge the upset and let it wash away.

I'm actually surprised at how not phased I am. I don't know wether I'm starting to detach or wether my anger with him is pushing me away. We too where on holiday last year for our A. But I absolutely knew he wouldn't do anything today, he can't even be in the same room as me right now and he told me he was filing so I had no expectations. It's just a day, it may have meant something once but now it doesn't. He forgot my birthday earlier this year during one of his sprees of dipping in and out of the R.

Sounds like a little temp checking from him. I hope she told him you were just fine!

[Coly23]

Thanks Cherry. It's a tough one though, I've also got my birthday in a couple of days too so I think the tears will probably flow again.....

My D was vague with my plans which is what I asked her to be. I think she just told him I was going to the gym and then out and about...

[Cherry]

That's good that she was a bit scarce on the details. Maybe he's getting a little curious as to what this beautiful woman is doing now she is out of sight..

Ugh that's tough, I know it's way easier said than done, but expect nothing of him. Make plans to spend the day with your D or arrange something with a friend so you have something to look forward to.

[BluWave]

Hi Coly,

I am glad you had a nice holiday with D. In a greater perspective, that matters more than anything, and that she (and you) can have postive memories during this time.

I wouldn't worry yourself with what D tells him or what he is thinking. Mind reading never works! None of us know what he is thinking and feeling right now and focusing on that is the opposite of what what DB is. I tried to mind read a lot when H was gone and after he came back we talked about several things---and you know what? Even in the most obvious circumstances, I was wrong! So don't waste your energy on that and don't allow that to take away from focusing on you. Those that continue to mind read are only allowing the H to continue to hold power over them. Take your power back everyone! :-)

The anniversary is hard. I am sorry. During our 10 year wedding anniversary my H and I were split. He was off with OW (who had used to be a friend) during that time period and it was devstatsing. I wondered what he was thinking and feeling during that day, and again, turns out I was wrong. So as hard as it is, find ways to enjoy holidays or distract yourself entirely.

If you find yourself spinning, go back and read Sandis rules, it's a good foundation. Reading and posting here helps too, but keep in mind that not everyone understands the principles. A lot of folks are in crisis and are DBing while looking over their shoulder or trying to win spouse back. It doesn't work.

Unfortunately this can be a long, long process. Keep staying dark, no contact, continue to lean on your support people, don't mind read, and mostly focus on you and how to start feeling better and getting stronger. It is only over time--sometimes months or even years--after H experiences a loss, and possibly sees you moving on, that we can begin to measure if DB is having an effect.

What if it doesn't? Well more importantly YOU will feel better and develop better tools to have in all your future Rs. It's about YOU know.

(((Coly)))
-Blu

[Coly23]

Hi Blu, thanks for checking in. It is so hard to not want to know what he is thinking especially on a day like this. I've not had any contact with him except the Thursday before the holiday as mentioned previously and apart from today I haven't really wanted to contact him at all. I guess all these firsts like anniversary and birthday are going to be little bumps in the road that I need to get over!

To keep my mind of it I have been doing a bit of GAL'ng today. I've organised to see one of my friends and her family tomorrow for tea/wine and cake, organised to go away and stay with friends on H's birthday weekend in October, been invited to a BBQ by one of H's friend's and W this weekend and another one of H's friends and W have invited me to go see a band in a couple of weeks time! I'm definitely going to go out for something to eat with my D and anyone else who is around for my birthday on Tuesday! I'm getting there slowly...

Thanks so much to you and Cherry for your encouragement today. It has been tough and even worse as I had an early flight this morning (been up since 3.00am and it's now 7.05pm) so I am tired as well as emotional!

[Coly23]

Journaling - had a good night's sleep but still feeling very emotional today.

At the moment I feel like I'm in a catch 22. I am feeling too much emotion towards H and the sich and I know in order to stop this I need to detach however the act of detaching is making me feel sad and emotional. Should I just be recognising that whilst slowly detachiing I am going to still feel emotional and accept that I will grieve the loss of my H and the marriage as part of the process? I don't know it all feels so wrong. Struggling today...

[ForGump]

the act of detaching is making me feel sad and emotional.

I've been thinking of the word "unhitch" rather than "detach." I try to have my emotional well-being unhitched from the madness that my WW is going through. So I think of it not so much as "distancing" myself from my WW, as being untethered to her emotional life, not caring, not feeling forced to respond. All the while trying to remain kind -- not just to my WW but to all.

My IC thought it's actually a normal and healthy response to "detach" and "distance," and I should just own up to it. She said that's a very normal response when someone breaks your heart and is leaving you.

[Coly23]

Thanks Gump. The annoying thing about my sich is my H is being annoyingly nice when we have any interactions which is confusing me. I have gone NC since the first week in Augusr during which I have had only a couple of exchanges, the first one was him inviting me and D out to lunch by text (which as you know I turned down) and the second was when he came into the house when dropping D off. Since then i've had nothing from him at all.

Yesterday I had to break NC as D wanted to order an album from iTunes and she contacted H to see if it would be OK. Historically H had his card details on there for any purchases but shortly after he left I noticed it had been removed. I thought fair enough and added my card details on there instead. Although I was a little p****d as I thought he could have had the decency to tell me! However he gave D permission to buy the album which I thought was a cheek, so texted him to remind him that he had removed his card. Apparently he says he didn't remove his card but thinks it could have removed itself because his card had expired and he forgot to update with his new card details. I do believe him as he has his other card details on our Kindle, which I have been taking full advantage of, and he hasn't said anything as yet. Anyway he apologised for this and we had a few text messages after that. He hoped i had a good holiday and hopes I have a good day today (my birthday!). Lots of blushing face emojis and as usual two little kisses.

Cried a lot yesterday and today I feel is going to be tough. Not sure where to go from here. I'm so confused... Back to NC again I suppose... :0(

[Coly23]

Just had a meltdown this morning, crying uncontrollably. My sister and my D are very annoyed and say that my H should know what a mess I am. Also my sister is encouraging me to have an R talk with him to see whether he is open to reconciling. I am so confused about what to do!

Just had a text from him wishing me a happy birthday and hoping I have a lovely day. Part of me wants to go back to him and tell him where to stick it! I know that wouldn't be right but I do need some help on how I should respond so I don't sound to grateful and not too cold. Of shall I just not respond at all?

[roist]

Bad days are to be expected. We all have them. It us a real struggle. Better days are ahead. What can you treat yourself too today? A birthday treat to momentarily feel better about yourself.

I can see no advantage in letting H know how your are struggling.He will not come back out of pity or guilt and being all over the place is not attractive to anyone. A better place to focus would be how to struggle less. I have not fully caught up on your situation so I don't know fully what you are or are not doing.

Similarly I doubt asking him to consider reconciliation will be helpful either. Let's say he is only 80% sure he wants out. Making him express his sentiments/opinion more likely than not will only increase his certainty. Better to leave that 20% grow on its own as it will be stronger. You can help it grow indirectly by improving yourself.

To do that you need to figure out how to get out of your current low. You will have to be mindful of your interactions and yes that includes telling him to stick it!. Why not just text back a simple thank you and leave it at that.

You seem to have a habit of dwelling on things especially related to H, good and bad.thinking and rethinking about the meanings of this or that interaction or comment will keep you stuck.

Focusing on other stuff really helps, better still if with people you enjoy being with. GAL activities can be as little as a 15 minute walk to an afternoon shopping to a weekend break..... actually there are no limits (except financial!!)

If this sounds hard, I mean it to help. Best wishes

[roist]

Happy birthday by the way.

[BluWave]

(((Coly)))

My dear, it is the worst pain--a roller coaster of emotions, anxiety, fear, desperation, and anger--I am so sorry. I know every sitch is diff, but I FEEL your pain and I have felt it in all the worst ways! When I found out my H was having an EA with one of our friends, I was sick about it, and then he ran to her for almost a year. I didn't eat, sleep, cried every day, and felt anxious and sick all the time. I lost 35 pounds (I am not overweight) and was hanging on by a thread. My poor kiddos picked up on a lot of it and suffered too.

So you must take care of yourself! Eat healthy, try and sleep, exercise, find a therapist that you click with, try sleep aids or AD if you need them, and lean on your safe people! Tell them you don't need advice, but just support right now. I texted and called my friends and close family multiple times a day, every day! They kept my head above water. I was in the darkest place for a long time! But I did survive and I know you will too.

That being said, I cannot see any benefit to turning to H right now. I agree with Roist 100%. Even if he knows how much he is hurting you and feels terribly guilty, and even if he did give the M another shot, it will not work. That is codependent and unhealthy to want to rescue someone. He ended the M right now and he has made his choice. He has to work on himself and figure out what he wants for this to work again. Then for the M to work, he will need to come to you and be remorseful--you will know when this happens, but it can take a very long time. My H actually felt terribly guilty when he was gone, and tried to come back, but it never worked. He had to miss me and see me moving on and that took time.

H needs to see you moving on without him, he needs to see what he is losing, and people are attracted to those that are healthy and strong. It feels counterintuitive because you are hurting and need support right now. We are here for you. Go to those that love you and that you trust. Going to H right now may offer temporary comfort, and it feels a relief to to get things off your chest, but if your end goal is to get your M back, you must give him the space and time he is taking.

(((Coly))) This is the hardest thing in life, so take it one day at a time, I promise things will change.

-Blu

[Cherry]

Happy birthday lovely.

I'm sorry you're having a hard time. And I echo what the others have told you regarding reaching out to him.

I think people around us mean well, they tell us either we're better than this and to walk away. Or they think that we can talk our way back together. They don't read the db-ing principles and they're telling us to do half of the things that we thought would help before we landed here.

Behind closed doors away from him, feel your pain but try your best to do something for you. Weather it's going out, or simply giving yourself a little pamper. Anything that helps you to look after you. You don't want him back out of pity, likewise you don't want to appear an emotional wreck to him as that won't appear attractive.

It is hard, I'm on the journey with you. And lots have been there and worn the tshirt.

Enjoy your day with those who love you. And if you want to acknowledge his birthday wishes, a simple thank you would suffice.

Big hugs

[ForGump]

Happy birthday Coly.

So many of us here understand and share your pain.

All the nice behavior from your H is to assuage his own guilt. He's confused and doing you no favors if he's texting you kiss emoticons. I think your response should be just a simple thank you.

If he truly cared for you, he knows what you want, he knows where to find you. You don't deserve him in the state he is in right now.

I hope you do something nice -- w/ your D and whoever else loves you -- to celebrate your birthday.

[Coly23]

Thank you so much for your posts Roist, Blu, Cherry and Gump and for the birthday wishes! I had a lovely day today peppered with a few tears. I had lunch at a local pub with my D and one of my friends who treated us both and then I had family and friends over to mine for pizza and cake. Not bad for a Tuesday birthday!

I'm sorry about my meltdown this morning. I knew the last few days would be tough with my wedding anniversary and birthday within two days of each other but I didn't know it would be this tough. I feel like I have gone one step forward and ten steps back!

Roist at the moment I am doing LRT which I am finding really tough and confusing. I so want to tell H to stick his birthday text but I promise I won't! I just said 'thanks' in the end. He also sent me a generic birthday card with butterflies on the front. I think I'm going to tear it up and bin it!

Blu, even though my sister thinks H should know how much I am suffering I have no intention of letting him see what a mess I am at the moment nor do I want to talk about reconciliation with him. If he asked to come back tomorrow I know I would no be ready to start piecing. I recognise I am just not in the right place now nor strong enough to forgive him for the hurt that he has caused me. I know I need to work on myself so I can become stronger in order to deal with whatever the outcome might be. I just need to pull my finger out and stop procrastinating!

Cherry your right, they don't understand the db-ing principles. My sister suggested I stop reading the DR book as she doesn't think it is doing me any good. In her opinion I am letting him get away with it by not confronting him. It's so hard to explain the principles to other people as they just see it as you being weak and letting your S get away with it.

Gump, i agree that he is doing stuff out of guilt however the two little kisses at the end of his texts are actually a kick in the teeth for me as he used to put at least six kisses so he has downgraded me!

I really want to send him the following text but I know it would be a nail in the marital coffin so I hope you don't mind if I write it here to get it off my chest:

'H, I received the generic birthday card from you. Just to set the record straight in case you are confused. I am not your friend and never will be. You might have scuttled off to your little one bedroom flat to lick your wounds, although I am still unclear what caused them as you will not tell me, but I am still legally your wife. You might have removed your wedding ring in an act of childish defiance but I am still legally your wife. Please don't send me a card which you would send to a friend or acquaintance, it is upsetting and insulting. I would rather have nothing from you.

I am also finding it hard to understand why your family have decided to not even acknowledge my birthday. It makes me wonder what you have been saying to them or are they just embarrassed or showing their true colours. Spineless like you?

I have taken a lot of s**t from you over the last 8 months, throwing your tantrums, ignoring me, refusing to talk about what was wrong and then you treat me with such indifference. You constantantly lie to me throwing me crumbs to show you might be open to reconciliation but then you take no action. Is this just to ease your guilt? Again I find that insulting from someone who cried on our wedding day but at the same time could not even send me a message to find out how I was on our sixth wedding anniversary.

I had a wonderful birthday today with people who love and care about me and who I can truly say have my best interests at heart. I thought I couldn't survive without you on a day like this but guess what, my heart is still beating and my lungs still inflate. Therefore, for now, I am firing you as my H until you can get your s**t together and be the man I married six years ago and not the selfish, spiteful, spineless individual that you have become.

Coly

Thanks guys, that felt cathartic!

[ForGump]

Makes me think I should write my own letter, just to get it off my chest!

[Coly23]

Do it Gump, it felt so good!

[Coly23]

Journaling - I really need to pull myself together. First day back at work and I am really struggling. Don't know if I need to get signed off for a couple of weeks to get my head straight but I have been trying so hard to avoid doing this. I have also decided to take down all our wedding photos. It's too hard to be reminded ever day of him and what he has done.

I spoke to my D about it yesterday and she is reluctant for me to do it as she says we are still a family. I tried to be gentle with her and explain that we are not a family anymore and it just broke my heart. She is still insistent that all he has asked for is space and time and I need to be patient but I feel like the process for moving on is being stalled a bit by her insistence that he is going to come back soon.

The whole LRT/going dark is also confusing me. I have managed to not contact him but sometimes I need to because of D especially at the moment as she is going to be doing work experience with my sister-in-law and he is going to help with picking up and dropping D off during the next two weeks. Is it ok to have these interactions? Does it mean I am not doing true LRT if I interact with him or is LRT only to stop you from initiating contact that might be perceived as pursuing? So far I have tried to keep any contact to a minimum and devoid of any emotion.

I am also worried about seeming too angry when I see him. My emotions are so out of whack I can't trust myself to act 'as if' in his company when all I want to do is punch him in the face! Sometimes I wish I could just hibernate for the next year or so....

I am really struggling with this whole DB process as well. I have read the book over and over again and I understand the principles but it is so much harder than it seems. Maybe I should just stop trying so hard to do the right thing but it's so hard when he is in my head 24/7. I just need to find a way to evict him as he definitely doesn't deserve squatting time in my thoughts!

Oh well back to work. Hope you are all having a more productive day than I am!!

[Cherry]

Ugh I'm sorry to hear that you're having a hard time of it. It is hard, and people meaning well telling us "they may come back" just doesn't seem to help us really. Personally, I hope for the best but I'm prepared for the worst.

I'm glad you got that message out of your system to us. Sometimes there are things we would love to say, but you have to stop yourself and think is it actually going to change anything. A month, month and a half ago when h started saying he thought he wanted a d- I must admit I layed into him. It just spewed out. It didn't help, didn't really even help me if I'm honest. Especially when they are at a stage when maybe they want a reaction out of us to justify their behaviour- so don't give it to them. I admit, last night I listened to him and I validated his feelings, I didn't agree, but I validated. Rather than being confrontation, he looked rather weak and very depressive. I owned the conversation, he actually thanked me for listening to him.

It's hard to try and get by without thinking about them, I thought I was doing ok, and then a ton of things brought him back into my mind. He's in a chaotic place right now, you wouldn't want him like that, so you just need to remove the thought and stop consciously thinking you need to detach. Just keep doing little things that help you. Regularly meet with friends, give yourself a pamper, start a new exercise class. Just anything that is for you. My god it's hard, it really is. But everyone promises that it gets easier- we just have to take the focus off them.

And re the wedding pics. That is something I'm debating, I also have many pics of me and h, or me h and baby, or him and baby. And I'm not sure wether or not to take them down. My thoughts at the moment is that he is still the father of my child and s likes to look at them. Right now they are still there, but if they begin to really bother me and are a trigger, then I will have to take them down.

With regards to LRT, it's kinda impossible to go completely dark when you have children. The way I see it is that if I absolutely need to contact him regarding s I will do. Other than that, I'm dark.

Chin up, focus on you. Leave him to his chaos.

[ForGump]

Your D15 sounds wise and resilient beyond her years. You are lucky to have her. Very.

I had my wedding photos right in front of me at my desk at work, pinned all over a cork board, but after a while I moved the board behind me. It didn't bother me, but I just felt like it wasn't consistent with reality any more.

I spent a lot of time at work just staring into space. I told my supervisors and close coworkers, and they were very understanding. Most importantly. I forgave myself for doing that.

There's a new song by Mudcrutch (Tom Petty's acoustic band), called "I Forgive It All." I listened to that a million times. (The video on Youtube features Anthony Hopkins -- what a face!)

[Coly23]

Thanks Cherry and Gump. Feeling a little bit calmer this evening.

Cherry, I agree I am thinking about the detaching too much and Gump I'll definitely look up that song.

I agree Gump, my D is very wise beyond her years and sometimes she puts me to shame. I mentioned on my birthday how awful it is that my husband has chosen not to be with me. She reminded me of a dear friend of ours who had a birthday just a few short months after his W took her life after a long illness and that at least I have some hope of reconciliation whereas he had none. She completely stopped me in my tracks.

Sometimes I do have moments of clarity where I feel really strong and in control. I can see the path that I want to follow and understand now that its ok if every now and again I have a wobble and accidentally stray into the deep dark woods of despair. When that happens I know I just need to navigate through my emotions and get back to that path.

I had a thought this evening. Apart from my regular emotional breakdowns and analysing everything that H does and says I don't think I am doing to bad with DB-ing. I've pulled right back on contact with H, I've stopped the cake eating by not doing family night, I don't engage in any R talk whatsoever (although I've come close a million times) and I've let go of trying to fix everything, especially the relationship between H and D.

However as you say Cherry I need to stop consciously thinking that I need to detach. I think I've been looking at DB-ing as separate units of an exam and I need to complete each unit with a positive result being the assessment. It's not an exam it's a choice. I have the choice to beg, plead, scream and stomp and tell him what he has done is wrong with the absolute result that it will push H to escape as far away as possible from me. Or I have the to choice to recognise that H is flesh and blood like me. He has emotions and feelings, fears and hopes and at the moment he is acting on his feelings which is exactly what I am doing. So I have the choice to step back and allow him his feelings whilst allowing myself to grow as an individual.

I know my moment of clarity might be gone tomorrow with a flash of a memory or thought and I will be a hot mess of tears again but I need to keep reminding myself that I have come such a long way in just three months and that if I hadn't found this website I would not have found you lovely people to prop me up when I don't feel I can carry on. For sure if I hadn't found you all my sich would have been in much more trouble than it is now.

I promise I am going to listen and learn from now on. At the end of the day what have I got to lose!! Thank you all so much!

[Cherry]

Wow, that really is wisdom beyond her years. What a smart kid!

We all have those moments, more so in the early days of our situation. We're hurting, and sometimes we just feel like acting on our emotions. I think the more we db, the more we start thinking about our interactions and the effect that they will have.

You're doing just great, just keep at it this site and all the lovely people keep us going and pick us back up when we feel like we can't go on anymore.

[Coly23]

Thanks Cherry! On cue, I'm back to a blubbering, meh sort of day!

So when I first staring DB I put some goals together which I now look at but don't think they fit me anymore. My goals were:

1. I would like H to initiate contact to find out how I am doing
2. I would like H to put his wedding ring back on
3. I would like H to invite me out for coffee or a drink
4. I woukd like H to come home by Decembet

Pretty lame don't you think and all entered around H. No wonder I'm no further forward!

So these are my new goals:

1. Improve my physical health.
How - Go back to the gym at least three times a week starting from now
How - take up a new activity like badminton
How will I know it's working - I become healthier, fitter and cuter! I will improve my hand eye coordination!

2. Improve mental health
How - book some counselling sessions - today!
How will I know it's working: I will be able to understand my emotional responses better, what triggers them and have the tools to cope with them
How - book an appointment with a DB coach to see if I am in the right track
How will I know it is working: my relationship with H will start to improve

3. Improve my happiness health
How- Restart my guitar lessons in September
How - see more of my friends, at least once a week
How - act as if I am happy
How will I know it's working: I stop crying every day, start smiling because I want to not because I have to, stop feeling like a victim, start feeling optimistic about the future

4. Detach
How - Only interact with H on anything to do with D. Do not include any cute emojis on texts or continue the conversation beyond what I originally contacted him about.
How - try to be unavailable when he comes over to pick up/drop off D
How - make sure all interactions with H are positive, don't do to much talking, let him lead
How - don't ask friends/D what H is up to
How - let him come to me if he wants his stuff
How will I know it's working: I don't feel like H's actions affect me anymore, my life isn't centered around our relationship, I recognise that I can cope and live without him

That enough for now but if you visit my post please can you review and let me know what you think. I will welcome any suggestions, tweaks or changes...

[roist]

Your first set of goals were not lame, but they were dependent on someone else and hence difficult for you to work towards and hence achieve.

Now the latest goals are much more workable.I would probably add to goal three to understand detachment better. There are many threads here that outline detachment plus livestrong cover it pretty well.

Maybe add some fun into your goals

Best wishes

[Coly23]

Thank you Roist. I definitely need to understand detachment better, it's causing me a lots of sleepless nights!

With the fun goals I thought gong out with friends and restarting guitar would be considered fun, is there anything else you would suggest?

[Cristy]

Improve mental health
How - book some counselling sessions - today!
How will I know it's working: I will be able to understand my emotional responses better, what triggers them and have the tools to cope with them
How - book an appointment with a DB coach to see if I am in the right track
How will I know it is working: my relationship with H will start to improve

Hi Coly23,

Your new goals are much more focused on you and what you have control over. Bravo!

I can actually help you with your goal of speaking with a DB Coach. Please call me at 303-444-7004 and we can talk about the best time to schedule a session. I would also like to offer you a discount.

Regards,

Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004

[Cherry]

These goals are great. I think your first draft are normal when we arrive here and we don't have a grasp on db-ing properly. Our minds are in a spin and we just want to see actions of our spouse. It takes time to realise we can't make goals centred around them, as they are simply out of our control.

Your new ones are great, do-able and a great way of how you are going to do them and how you will know if you're getting there. Right them down somewhere where you will be able to regularly refresh yourself and also see your progress.

You're doing great

[Coly23]

Thanks Cherry!

Well had my first DB consultation with Chuck. I think it went really well. I was so confused if I was doing LTR or going dark and if either of those methods suited my sich. He really put my mind at ease and made me see that it isnt all back and white and that every such is different so what worked for one sich nay not work for another.

He suggested that I try to be a friend to H which disturbed me at first but he reminded me that we had been friends for nine years before we got together so friendship is fundamental to our relationship in order to rebuild. I actually cried when he said that because it hadn't crossed my mind that our friendship was such a huge part of our relationship but I think we just lost it along the way.

I told him about going dark and the family evenings which I have now put a stop to because I thought that H might be cake eating but that we did all enjoy it. Chuck suggested that if we enjoyed it then we should carry it on so I texted H this evening and asked if he wanted to come to Sunday lunch or dinner and he came back and suggested that we could also go to the cinema. For me that's really positive that he suggested an additional activity.

These are the smallest baby steps and although it may take a while to get any results I feel a bit more in control of my sich. I've now got to write 50 things on my bucket list as my homework.. I hate homework.. Ooh is that washing up that needs to be done...

[ForGump]

This is revolutionary! And I like it! I really hope it works for you.

What was Chuck's view on cake-eating? Doesn't he think that giving your H what he wants will just implicitly approve and perpetuate his behavior? Not criticizing Chuck and his approach; just want to understand it well.

[Coly23]

Mmm, what he said was to stop doing things that look as if I am punishing H which I guess I am doing if I stop family night.

Also it's about doing things that get results and I think I might have been getting some small results that I may not have noticed like when he started bringing a bottle of wine over or suggested he gets a takeaway for us rather than me cook.

After my consultation I also had a thought about the whole distances and pursuer thing and about how my H hadn't been great at the whole pursuing thing anyway when we first got together so if I left it to him to pursue me I might be waiting a very long time! Please don't get me wrong, I'm not going to start bombarding him with texts asking him to come out on dates etc. but for now I am going to try family night and be the friend I used to be to him all those years ago.

Also my daughter saw him yesterday for a couple of hours and apparently he asked lots of questions about how I was and if I had a nice birthday etc so again I think it's a positive that he is thinking if me....

[Coly23]

So update. H texted this morning about which film we should see and times because this will determine what time we have dinner. So he suggested rather than me cook he would like to takes us both out for dinner as a birthday treat for me. I suggested we meet him at the cinema but he

Then I was trying to play it all cool and not go back to his texts too quickly so went to the gym and guess who was there, H!!! I didn't think he was still going to our gym so I was a bit suprised! We had a really good chat on the treadmill and even though we were both running he was actually turning and talking to me and giving me eye contact which previously he struggled to do!

Just off to a BBQ with one if H's friends and his family. Mummy, food!!

[Coly23]

Sorry that meant to say mmmm food! Stupid autocorrect!!! Xx

[hawker]

That sounds positive Colby!

[Coly23]

So had a good day today. H came over to take us to the cinema and dinner afterwards. He brought me some champaign truffles as a belated birthday present and a birthday card and voucher from his mum and dad. Nice suprise.

He was just like the old H and it made me feel sad. Actually I don't know how to feel anymore. The whole be friendly thing just doesn't feel right. It's like ignoring the elephant in the room most of time.

What made it worse is the gathering we went to yesterday the wife of H's friend said he came over and saw them the other day and she definitely doesn't think he will come back. I asked her if he actually said that and she said no but she gets that impression from some of the things he said. I don't know what to think anymore....

[Cherry]

It's great to see that you've been seeing some positive behaviour. That's a good point from your db coach about not looking as though you are punishing him.

Try not to be disheartened by what the wife of h's friend said. Although you need to watch your expectations, there is really no knowing how any situation will turn out.

I know how you feel about being friends with h makes you feel a bit as though you are avoiding the elephant in the room; I'm not even sure how I would go about being a friend to my h, he's not really receptive to spending any amount of time even near me so it all seems rather impossible

[Coly23]

Thanks Cherry. I think that's the trouble, I don't have any expectations and feel very negative about everything even if it was a good day. My D gets very frustrated with me because she can see the positive interactions between us. We don't fight or argue and he doesn't have that pained look on his face anymore but what worries me is that maybe this is all he can give me.

What I don't understand about your H is that he seems to be steaming ahead with the D but doesn't seem to be making a lot of progress with moving out, unless I have missed something?

[Cherry]

It's not really worth worrying about that, easier said than done I know. It's really important to see any slight improvement and you know you're on to the right track. Not seeing that pained expression or being able to have a conversation where he actually looks you in the eye or doesn't get angry, are positives and a good sign.

Nope you haven't missed anything. He is all set to go ahead with the divorce and this morning I heard him to say to his mom that it is "going through as we speak" but yet he is carefully looking through places and showing no particular urgency to be out. All he keeps saying is he will be moving soon. It really doesn't make much sense. I just feel he won't even see what life would be like without me if he d's first and then goes. His thought process just doesn't seem to make much sense to me at all though really

[Coly23]

I know it's hard and at the moment with all the sickness you may not have the energy but IMHO I would ask him to leave now if he is continuing with the divorce. He seems to getting the best of both worlds, waving divorce in your face and taking his time to find a place is cake eating in my books.

[CT1118]

What made it worse is the gathering we went to yesterday the wife of H's friend said he came over and saw them the other day and she definitely doesn't think he will come back. I asked her if he actually said that and she said no but she gets that impression from some of the things he said. I don't know what to think anymore....

I am w/ Cherry on what the friend said. I went to a gathering w/ my W two weeks ago and it was all her friends. At various points in the night I had all these different women - some I had never met - secretly telling me that they thought my W would come back. They did not know of the A or the details though. Point being, you don't know what that woman knows and her opinion is certainly not based upon the version of your H that you know.

Plus, for those of us choosing to do what we do and not just say "I want a D!" right from the start...we confound people b/c we are no longer the normal. The normal is quit, move on. Seems like in the era of social media and info as fast as thought, being on your own is the most horrifying thing for people to stomach.

Do what you do and read nothing into the minds of others. This whole experience is like what Steven Wright said - "I am writing a book, so far I've got the page numbers done."

[Altair]

Coly,
Do you find that after you see H he pulls back for awhile? I'm doing the "friend" thing too. He took me to lunch on Friday, same as what you said, elephant in room being ignored, and just being friendly to each other. Then I won't hear from him for a few days and then he'll text. Still wants to talk to his therapist about how much (or if) he should see me.

[Coly23]

Thanks CT1118. That's interesting about the same thing happening with you and your W. Why do friends/family think they are being helpful by giving their opinion in this way without any real proof! This is the same friend who right at the start of our separation told me she definitely thought H had OW and that I should get a PI to find out who she is. She had now changed her mind and says she definitely doesn't think there is OW involved even though I told her from the start I didn't think that was the case so I'm not sure I can trust her comments anyway....

I think considering I was a blubbering mess when I woke up this morning after that comment I did a pretty good job of being up beat and friendly with H but when he left I am back to feeling despondent and hopeless. I feel like I just can't be happy or optimistic about anything anymore. I guess I am just protecting myself from more disappointment. Just ate one of the champaigne truffles to cheer myself up :0)

[Cherry]

Ct is right, when we decide we want to stand for the m we become what's not considered as "the norm". I hate people's views on m like its disposable, not many people want to put the work into anything these days, it's like if you're not absolutely psyched about anything- toss it aside and get an upgrade, and I say this as a woman in her 20s!

Plus on the talk of unsolicited advise, how many times do you hear people say "if I found out my spouse was having an affair- I'd kick them straight out". Truth is, unless you're in that situation, you really don't know how you would react. It's like it says in DR, people just want to see you out of pain, they don't have to live with the consequences.

You did a great job, it takes a lot of strength to pull it together and be friendly when it just seems so unnatural to you right now. You are doing good though, if it's any consolation. When I successfully db-ed the last time when my h was having a pa; I managed to do the friend part, he said he wanted to keep Saturday's as a family day with me and s. I often felt like you, it seemed unnatural. But I really do think that that was what brought us back towards each other. Take it slow, keep concentrating on you and looking after yourself as well as doing this but not as much focus on him and how he behaves. Have a truffle for me, I usually love chocolate but I've not been able to stand it since being pregnant.

[Coly23]

Altair, I've been wondering how you are!

I'm not at the stage you are at because all our interactions involve family time with D at the moment. I think a few weeks back we agreed to continue with that for now but then I got cold feet and shelved it but realised that we all actually really enjoyed it so the DB coach said I should start it up again if I wanted to.

I don't have a lot of communication with H outside of arranging family time so for example I am not expecting anything from him after today until the next time we arrange for us all to see each other. I am hoping that the positive interactions we have during these times might lead to the two of us doing stuff on our own. Still feeling a bit despondent about it all so we'll see what happens!

Do you feel the DB coach has helped with the progress you are making?

[Coly23]

Cherry, that's so true about the unsolicited advice. One of my friends and one of my Sister's can't believe that I don't talk about the R with H whenever I see him. In their opinion it should be all we talk about but what I keep reminding them about is what good would it do if I'm constantly harping on about how much he has hurt me, if there is a chance for us, blah, blah, blah!

Another thing they think I should do is to give H an ultimatum so if it is definitely over then I can draw a line in the sand and move on. Again I have to remind them that my marriage is, to all intents and purposes, over but that I chose to not give up that there may be a chance for reconciliation somewhere down the line.

I believe they think I'm a bit mad and as I said in a previous post, the same sister suggested I throw DR book away as she doesn't think it is doing me any good! I can just imagine my sisters all talking about how concerned they are that I am taking this advice that is so alien to them all! I don't know, I guess the proof will be in the pudding....

[Cherry]

Oh I get that a lot, that I need to talk about the r, that I need to "kick him into touch", "throw him out". While the last one does seem like a possible blessing.

I think the having family time will really help. If you can keep yourself strong and focus on you, and just have that family time where once a week he will see you, and you'll be dressed good and looking sharp- I think it helps. If I had the opportunity to do something like that, I think I'd leap at it, so long as I was able to keep my expectations low. Unfortunately, I'm at a stage where there is just barely any contact, nor does he particularly care to cross my path at all. I'm feeling a little hopeless right now. But I'm still hoping for the best.

[Altair]

Hi Coly!
I've been here, just reading and not posting. Let's see, is DB counselor helping. Well, I wish I would have started a few months ago and not done all the pursuing behaviors but oh well, can't win them all. She's saying the same as I see here, be his friend, don't pursue. Some exercises in looking at things from H side. The friendship thing, while extremely confusing and counter-intuitive, does have its appeal. I'm pretty sure I'm in that stage where H sees me calm and smiling and doesn't trust it. (The old me would certainly have insisted a 'status R' discussion by now, I would not have let things linger for months). Being patient, for me, is nearly impossible so this is a real challenge for me. So I am trying it! I guess I'm one of the few women on here with no kids to change the dynamic of the H who has left, and there's no OP (yet) and not known if he's even trying to look. I know he spends a lot of time at his mom's house now.

But yeah, the peanut gallery opinions are interesting. I'm surprised you tried to sell people on DB! I don't think I could-- unless I knew the person had Buddhist leanings!

[Coly23]

Altair, I think we all wish we found DB before we did all the begging and pleading but I think we needed to do that to get it out of our system, after all we are only human!

Journaling-
Had a terrible night's sleep, possibly only three hours. Just couldn't stop thinking about the things thst H must have said to his friend and his wife for them to think there was no hope. I keep telling myself that maybe at that point he felt that way or that he was unlikely to tell them he made a mistake.

I'm not saying that I expect H to be thinking of reconciliation right now but I did kind of get the impression that he hadn't closed the door completely. Sometimes it annoys me that he is so nice to me. It makes me think that maybe he is doing it gaslight me or out of guilt. I don't know. I feel like I'm being ungrateful seeing as I have a WH who is willing to take us out for dinner, to the cinema, send me a birthday card, bring me chocolates, bring wine and takeaways over when it could be so much worse. I guess it's because I don't trust the intentions behind those actions

Am I making sense? Probably not but that's what u get for three hours of sleep!

[Coly23]

I guess what I have to have is faith in that he is fully aware that I am committed to our marriage and I want to make it work....

Altair, I have no patience at all and this is killing me. I thought I had gained some when my daughter as born but it seems I was wrong.... !

[Coly23]

So just spent the day at the beach with my two younger sisters and their families. Felt a bit like a spare wheel as they had their husbands with them and I was on my own. My youngest sister rented a cute beach hut and we had a BBQ. I tried to be upbeat but just kept thinking H would have loved this.

I seem to be getting dragged down by a lot of negativity especially from my sisters. I know they mean well but saying that maybe the reason that H is happier these days could be that he has let go of the guilt and realises being in his own makes him happy is not helpful. This is especially not helpful straight after the comment from H's friends wife on Saturday,

I keep taking all these comments and adding them to the things that he has said to me and what he has done and once I put them all together it looks very bleak indeed. Every time I think I am slowly crawling out of this hole something else pushes me back down,

I'm starting to get desperate thoughts of texting him or asking him face to face what he wants and I am trying very hard to to stop these thoughts from becoming actions but I feel I am getting weaker each day.

Also D has been pestering me for a dog (for the last five years) and her pestering has become a desperate need for something to fill her life. I am not keen on dogs but i am slowly softening as I too need something to fill this whole that H has created in our lives. I am just not sure if it is the best time to add more complications to our lives...

[Coly23]

*hole!

[BluWave]

(((Coly)))

I've been following, but not posting because I don't want to give you advice that conflicts with the DB coach. But I can share my sitch with you and perhaps there is something to be gained. I am now looking back on the past few years with much more clarity. Even tho we are well into piecing, I would say that I am more detached from H than I have ever been, and it is a welcomed space.

I am not an expert on DB, but I can see very clearly what did NOT work in my sitch and I can also see now where things were working (but didn't know at the time because I was riddled with emotions and insecurity). I also gather that when H is wayward and actively in an A, a much firmer approach is necessary. Did your coach mention that friendship is more encouraged with a WAH verses a WH? I want you to keep in mind that you do NOT know if there is an A as much as you try (or his friends do) to speculate. In most of these sitches (my seasoned therapist had confirmed this) there is or was some type of A.

There were several times in the first 4 months after BD that we did things as a family and I was friendly with H. There were some family dinners, bdays, and some holiday time, which included us and the children. I feel strongly now that I allowed ultimate cake eating. He got to have the family time, play house, and then go off to OW. I think I actually helped him absolve his guilt because I tried to act strong and he also saw in those moments that things could be okay if we D and that I may offer friendship. I did not ever want a friendship with him! I wanted my M and my family intact. I was only doing this in hopes of winning him back.

More importantly than him and his perspective, when I was friendly with him in this way, I wasn't being true to myself. I didn't want a friendship or family time. I was incredibly hurt and angry at this person. It damaged my sense of self and confidence further to play pretend. It was terribly painful (and awkward) to sit around the dinner table with him and the kids, while knowing he was actively rejecting me and then leaving to OW! I felt anxious and worse about myself. I felt used.

So that is my perspective in my sitch. My H would have continued and enjoyed the family time had I allowed for that. It wasn't until I drew a big line in the sand, took a giant step back, and started moving on with my life, that he saw what he was losing. I started to lose exceptions, GAL, and honor my own needs and feelings before anything. I stayed away, I held my head up high, I focused on my other Rs, and I started making plans to move on as a single mom. That, and at that time, is when he hit rock bottom and did a sharp 180!

That is my sitch, which is different than yours. I shared it because I can see that you are also hurting and conflicted. I also don't think your friends and family are that far off. It goes against DB to tell the H what you are thinking, feeling, and wanting, but I will say that there were many times I DID do that, and it really had H thinking. Just my 2 cents.

-Blu

[hawker]

I would agree with Blue Wave that if the S is having an A you can't continue to let him still have family time, because he is getting his family and his A....I am totally not an expert on DB either but just my thoughts...have you tried that yet? Maybe see what works and what doesn't...

[Altair]

The friend thing is not clear with me either. (My case, no kids, but similar to Coly). What would the friend activity be? Dinner? a walk? I'm not initiating so I probably won't hear from him in an unknown number of days. Like Blu said, if he gets to spend time with me then how will he miss "us"? Or realize his apartment [censored] and he wants to be in a relationship again? Is that the goal, for them to bottom out and want to work on M?

[Coly23]

Hey Blu, Hawker, Altair, thanks for stopping by.

Blu, I value our advice so please don't feel like now I am speaking with a DB coach this will conflict me. Unfortunately I am conflicted whatever advice I get!

I am just so confused. Some days I think he is definitely having A and then other days I just can't see it. How can I find out, it's absolutely eating me up. I've already asked him over and over again and he has continually denied it. I don't want to hire a PI I just want him to tell me the truth if he is seeing someone else.

He always seems too available so either the A has ended and he has decided that he still does not want me or he is in EA. The reason why I think this is that at times he has arranged to see my D for whole weekends and not alternate weekends either. He has dropped everything to come over to our house and also to our other friend's houses when they've asked him over at short notice. Surely if he has his own place now he would be less available and be able to carry in an A at his leisure....?

I don't know. Part of me wishes he was in an A because at least that would be a reason as at the moment I have no idea why he has left me.

If I knew he was in an A I definitely would not let him have family time and to be honest I think my daughter would stop seeing him to.

Blue how long after you separated did you find out?

Altair, the friend thing is confusing. I think the idea is that maybe if he came over once a week he will see what he is missing but I don't know if that is the case. I think I need a new brain!!!

[Cherry]

Blu, your insight is always invaluable, and is somewhat similar to T's that she gave on my thread. Which gives me a little hope with regards to how to navigate my sitch.

With regards to the A, they say that to some level- there's often either an a or the idea of an a in their mind. I know that doesn't provide you with much comfort, but the truth will always out. With regards to denying an affair- my wh is still denying it and I've seen the damn messages. It's like in the movies when they get caught in bed with someone and leap up saying "it's not what it looks like". I imagine this is really hard as not knowing what to do re allow the family time vs no family time. But you'll get there, it's just knowing what feels right to you. Keep looking after you. And ignore everyone and their insights, people put 2+2 together and get 503, it's totally open to interpretation and what they have heard or think

[Coly23]

Thanks Cherry, I really don't know what to do.

I'm leaning more and more towards having an R chat with him just to find out where we are with it all. I might see how it goes this week. If he doesn't mention about family evening then I'll know it's just me who is driving it and he isn't really interested in seeing me. In that case I'll stop doing it.

[Cherry]

I'm no vet, but I'd advise staying away from r talks at all costs.

But I think you've the right idea as to if he brings it up. Don't go out of your way to offer a chance for him to see his family, he walked out on that opportunity.

[ForGump]

Tell me about the beach. What color was the water? The sand. Rocks.

Were the waves crashing? Or gentle.

Families loud, parasols, balls, buckets and towels? Or a quiet cove.

Was the sky blue.

[Altair]

Coly,
did he ever ask for space and tell you he wasn't ready to talk about R? If so, I guess I would wait.

[Coly23]

The beach was lovely thanks Gump. Miles of bautiful golden sand and blue-green sea. Not bad for the UK! The sun was shining and kids were building sand castles or trying to bury each other! The sea was a little rough but that didn't stop anyone going in!

Cherry, I feel like I'm holding back so much and that is what is causing my stress and anxiety. I just don't know what I should do anymore. How can H be so nice to my face but just go completely cold and not even contact me to find out how my weekend went. I am just so confused about it all. How do I draw a line in the sand? Do I tell him that is what I'm doing or do I just do it?

[Coly23]

Altair, he's been asking for space since the beginning but i think he is just using that as an excuse and he has made his mind up that he doesn't want to work at the marriage. He has made no effort to stay in contact with me at all, any contact is usually initiated by me or my daughter. I just don't know what to do anymore...

[ForGump]

Thanks -- I could picture it (partly thanks to watching Broadchurch).

The way I make sense of my W's actions is: selfish, self-absorbed, self-centered, self-focused. Whatever nice thing she does, it's to make herself feel better about what she's doing. It all starts w/ herself. It's not about others.

That probably doesn't help you feel any better. Sorry.

[Coly23]

You pretty much hit the nail on the head Gump. Same as Blu and everyone else has been telling me. I just need to start getting strong and stop having soppy thoughts about him!

[ForGump]

Re: Years & Years -- sounds like the 80's has quite ended over in the UK (I'm happy to learn).

[hawker]

Hang in there Coly...Its hard when you love your S and they seem to not give a crap....My W is selfish and self-centered as well....she texted me "so I go to the surgeon today to find out what is next (she has a back problem)..do you want me to text you what they say? This is all after I was emotional on Monday giving her one last chance..grrrr...why did I do that???? So its all about her....

[Coly23]

Oh Hawker, it just doesn't seem to cross their minds what they are put us through. Everything seems so matter of fact in their little world. They get to stop caring about us but no way ib the world would they consider that we can stop caring about them!

Just backslid and texted H to ask if he is watching the Great British Bake Off which we loved to watch together. No response....

Gump- Years & Years are a fairly new group. Google them, I love their music!

[cheesyt]

Coly- don't give him the luxury to ignore your texts!!!! it'll drive you nuts as I'm sure you know!

[Coly23]

I know Cheesy, I am so annoyed with myself! How can he be so nice to my face, buy me chocolates and take us out to dinner for my birthday, but ignore a simple text, I just don't get it! Is it his way of saying that I am not important to him anymore!

[Cherry]

I agree with cheesyt, don't give him the privilege. It's so so hard, like you say. It feels impossible when you have so much love for them but they don't care, they just care about themselves. His silent treatment annoys me. He's walking around, and I look at him and I feel both the rush of love and pain at the same time. I have to bite my tongue a good lot of the time to say anything

[Coly23]

I agree Cherry, it just doesn't make any sense how they can trest us with such indifference. It breaks my heart.. Anyway he texted back in the end:

Me: Are your watching Bake Off?

H: No, away for a couple of days in Rushden and just having dinner. Is it a good one?

Me: GBB is always good! Biscuits tonight. Enjoy your dinner...

H: Thanks! Xx

Makes me sad because whenever he was away he would call before dinner and then call after dinner. Hate that things have to change....

[Cherry]

It does, it's catching up to all these changes that make things hard for us. We are flung into a life we didn't want, with the person we love turning on us. Some days I'm in utter denial and think of how he was. He treated me like a queen. We would text all day long, and now I'm just completely ignored. It kind of leaves you standing around thinking wtf happened?!

Think positive, you got a response. Not a cat in hells chance could me and wh text like that. He is far too angry towards me

[Altair]

Yes, the texting all day long, treating us like queens..

No more, I just journal to myself pretty much, or fool around on here.

[Coly23]

Morning All! Blubbering as soon as I woke this morning... I think I know why I have gone ten steps back. I think I am in the acceptance stage and it's worse than denial. I accept that:

- my marriage is over
- he is nit coming back any time soon
- he does not love me
- I am a single mum again
- he has his own life and it is without me
- I have survived so far and will continue to
- it will get worse before it gets better

Need to pull myself together and go back to work.... :0(

[Coly23]

Not been on here a great deal lately. I just don't feel in a good place at the moment. Last Saturday really knocked me for six and my D has commented that I seem to have gone backwards since.

I have tried to not let it get to me but it just feels like hope is slipping away. I just don't have a lot left in the ''be strong' tank anymore.

To make it worse H has invited both myself and D out for lunch/dinner on Saturday. I really don't know what to do anymore....

[Cherry]

I'm sorry you are having a hard time. We do seem to cycle through these stages of grief, and it's not easy. And it's very painful.

There is some positives in your situation though. Your h is inviting you for lunch, mine can't even look or talk to me, so you've a positive there. If you feel you can manage to see him without any expectations and just treat him like a neighbor, I say go.

[Coly23]

I know Cherry and I do feel awful that I whinge so much because it could be so much worse but what is putting the doubts in my mind is this:

He texted D and asked if D and Mummy would like to go to lunch/dinner on Saturday. D was out with her friends when he texted so she said she didn't know and could he text me to ask but as yet he has not texted me. Does that mean he really doesn't want me to go and is just including me to be polite? Or if he didn't want me to go then he really wouldn't have bothered to include me in the first place?

I know I am over analysing everything but I really don't get the reluctance to contact me, it's really getting on my nerves!

[Cherry]

Hmm I'm not sure. I don't think that it is that he doesn't want you to be there, otherwise he just probably wouldn't bother inviting you. Maybe he asked her as he thought you might say no if he asked you directly?

Honestly though, there is no knowing what goes on in their minds. And when we try and mindread it doesn't do us any good. I frequently find myself trying to analyse wh's behaviour, but I try and stop myself in my tracks by asking myself what am I achieving. I doubt they can even make sense of their thoughts- let alone us.

[Coly23]

Still mind reading! He called D today to ask her what we wanted to do about Saturday and she asked why he didn't contact me and he said its because I can't keep up with her social calendar so he goes straight to her! Lame....

[Cherry]

Sounds like he's a little bitter you aren't sat waiting by the phone crying, waiting for him to call.

[Coly23]

Oh no sorry that came out all wrong! He meant because I can't keep up with D's social calendar he goes straight to her (she never tells me what she is doing until the last minute) but obviously he doesn't think I have any social life or if I can't make it at least he gets to see D. So either way he doesn't really need to contact me at all...

Thinking about it, he doesn't really care if I am there or not! (Mind reading again!!)

Sorry, over fixating on something entirely trivial and solvable! Need to stop ....

[BluWave]

Coly & Cherry,

Double 2*4 coming at you with love :-) The mind reading is soooo hard not to do, but it doesn't work! You can never know what another person is thinking and feeling or what their intentions are. Think about it, even if a person tells you, they are telling you what they decided to tell you and you can only know so much. Well waywards are not going to tell you and more than that, they may not even know why right now themselves. They are also going through a hard time.

So, it doesn't work. It will also drive you crazy and can cause you more hurt than you already have. Lastly, it is taking away from the DB principle to focus on YOU! So when you find yourself mind reading or ruminating about H, thought stop, and then immediately do something else. Let that something be something that is only for you and that you have complete control over. Preferably something that makes you happy and is good for you.

That would be some great 180, GAL, and working towards detachment all rolled up into one!

Coly, I think your step back may be related to the family time. H has hurt you, you are not clear on the direction of the M or why this happened, and so having family time may be causing you more anxiety. I would say continue if it benefits you and D, but I don't see that to be the case. She also wants to protect you so keep in mind that is additional stress for her as well.

The good news is he continuing to be a father figure to D. I think that is good for her and at least he is trying!

I think LBS spend a lot of energy demonizing waywards and talking about their fog because it somehow makes it easier to accept the behavior. In reality, we don't know their emotional process and so we must simply accept their actions for what they are. I think the most critical step towards detachment is focusing on yourself, stop the mind reading, stop the rumination, and stop the finger pointing. This is only possible if we fill our lives with healthy Rs and positive activities!

One step and one day at a time. Things will get better and fall into place as they should in time. Believing that got me through some very hard days.

-Blu

[hawker]

Yes, mind reading is hard to do and it is a waste of time and these waywards change day to day!!! One day my W said she was getting an apartment, one day she was moving in with her male teacher friend and kids and then the next thing I knew she moved in with the OW. This was all within one week!!!!

Its easier said than done but it doesn't help to worry or have fear because there is a plan and we can change the way our S's think and we can't guess what they are thinking. We can be positive, work on ourselves, have fun with family and friends!!! hang in there

[Altair]

Blu,
that was a pretty soft 2x4! Like a foam one! Coly and Cherry, my team, hang in there! We can do this!

[Cherry]

Blu, I always appreciate your 2x4s and your advise. You are right, his downright disrespectful and toxic behaviour made me want to stay the hell away from him. He told his mum that there is a girl he likes but he isn't doing anything about it. He can't even be honest with me about that. I know damn well that there is a ow involved but he swears to me there isn't. Can't even keep up with his own damn lies.

[Coly23]

Blu, Hawker, Cherry, Altair, I just woke up to your posts, damn the time difference!

Blu, the fact that I am feeling such anxiety must mean that, in my heart, I don't think that this family time is right. I did speak with my D about it and you are right it is causing her anxiety as well as she sees H doing what I asked him to do and all she sees is me getting stressed about the way he asked.

His not contacting me directly is getting on my nerves. It's sending a clear message that I am not important anymore. How can he just cut me off in that way but still want to come over for family time, that's what I dont get.

I need to remove the rod from my back which i put there. If I need to draw a line in the sand then I need to have an R talk with him and that is stressing me out because I know I am not supposed to do that. Blu, you said you did have talks like this with your H in the past and it made him think. How did you eventually draw that line in the sand?

Cherry, I think we both needed that foam 2x4!

[Surfer]

Coly,

What detaches you from anxiety? Talking, dancing, singing, running etc?

What is it. Make a list for me please. Besides each point tell me which ones you can't do any why.

No point in telling you to mind read, Blu et al have done a perfect job.

Surfer.

[Surfer]

And not any

[Coly23]

Hi Surfer, thanks for stopping by. Right now my anxiety is through the roof and I've just been blubbing all day! I really don't know what would help my anxiety because I don't think I have ever experienced anxiety at this level.
Let's see:

Talking - I been doing a lot of that lately with friends and family but I do need to arrange for some counselling

Going to the gym - when my anxiety is really high I just want to cry so going to any public places is not ideal. Also my heart rate increases so much I fear I might have a heart attack if I do anything strenuous!

Reading - no reason why I can't do that just finding it difficult to concentrate

Sorry it's not a very big list. I'm finding it really hard to do anything at the moment because I just want to cry all the time. Most days I rush home from work because I have had to hold everything in for 8 hours....

I don't understand how to enjoy myself if I feel like this all the time...

[Surfer]

Coly,

You need to find you again. That IS the answer.

How you do that is by letting him go.

He won't come back if you are a mess. If you are the confident, sassy, kind caring you he fell for he may. So, find you! Do things you like to do that make you feel like YOU again. It takes a lot of effort and you may not feel like doing those things now, but force yourself. You WILL get there.

When you feel like you, you will be happy again.

But you need to detach too. That way he can't hurt you.

It's quite simple but hard to see when you feel like this.

Re-read, what I have said, what I think you should do; and do it - FOR YOU!

All the advice you will get is the same.

Just keep posting, it will calm your anxiety and help others help you.

Surfer.

[Cherry]

Lovely coly, I agree with surfer. I'm so sorry you're struggling to do anything because of the tears. I know that pain and that feeling, I really do. But you do need to try your best and find anything that will bring you a little happiness or that you feel is a little treat for you and it will help.

After a rough night on Friday night, I really felt like staying in bed crying all yesterday. But I forced myself up and out with a girlfriend. It was hard but once I was out I had a good time. I also find that once I've put s to bed I have a little me time as the evening is one of the times I feel the most triggers of sadness. I'll watch some tv (nothing romantic- I can't hack that right now), or I'll do my nails or put a facemask on- anything really that will look after me and treat me a little.

Chin up, they tell us it gets easier, and the first place to start is by looking after us.

[hawker]

Hang in there Coly. I made myself get out and do yard work after my W moved her stuff out today. It really takes your mind off of things to keep busy. It's hard but keep pushing on and keep posting. I know it helps me to post and read what we all are going through.

[SH_]

Hi Coly,

I have read many of your posts to others and have seen some of the convos here and have wanted to share with you, but you have been in good hands with several others so I have silently observed.
I notices your recent postings about the water works and it reminded me of a dear friend that I have here in the community as well as another DBer that i pop in to see occasionally.
I will try and send them in to assist as they are both wonderful people that have gone through it. Actually they are still going through it but have implemented consistently the advice that Blu gave you as well as some pointer that I will provide you.

I think LBS spend a lot of energy demonizing waywards and talking about their fog because it somehow makes it easier to accept the behavior. In reality, we don't know their emotional process and so we must simply accept their actions for what they are. I think the most critical step towards detachment is focusing on yourself, stop the mind reading, stop the rumination, and stop the finger pointing. This is only possible if we fill our lives with healthy Rs and positive activities!

One step and one day at a time. Things will get better and fall into place as they should in time. Believing that got me through some very hard days.

-Blu

Please print this or put it somewhere you can read daily.
It is that simple.
I did not say easy.
Just simple.

Talking - I been doing a lot of that lately with friends and family but I do need to arrange for some counselling

Be cautious in talking to family and friends.
At least keep the circle small when you do.
This can add to more pain as they just want to see you out of it.
Also, if reconciliation is in the cards, it makes the challenge bigger.
An IC is a great option.
When will you arrange this?

Going to the gym - when my anxiety is really high I just want to cry so going to any public places is not ideal. Also my heart rate increases so much I fear I might have a heart attack if I do anything strenuous!

Then go outside and walk or jog.
Do strength type training somewhere private if needed.
I work out at home and run my neighbor hood.
Exercise is a good step.
Don't make any excuses as there are many ways to do it.

The anxiety attacks will make one feel like they are going to die.
The fact is that they are physically harmless on their own.
If you think that you may have a heart condition, please see an MD and have that looked at.

When I saw my MD, he actually was worried about my heart.
It was because it was beating too slow.
Weird!
When I had my anxiety attacks, I thought my heart was going to beat right out of my chest.
I am a runner.
After walking me around the halls and checking my rate again, he said the he was amazed at how strong my heart was and chalked it up to being an athletic heart.

So get checked out if what you write about making your fear working out.
Trust me, getting professional help will calm many other things that are adding to your anxiety.

Reading - no reason why I can't do that just finding it difficult to concentrate

Continue to read and force concentration.
The mind can only focus on one thing at a time.
You just have to stick to it.
Find things that you would be engaged in if reading is not your thing.
I like music
I love watching Ted Talks
They work as well as reading.
But don't make any excuses and engage yourself in the learning activities that will help you through this.

Sorry it's not a very big list. I'm finding it really hard to do anything at the moment because I just want to cry all the time. Most days I rush home from work because I have had to hold everything in for 8 hours....

Your challenge is the same as someone that is over weight and out of shape.
The pain of doing something that will help you is outweighed by the pain that will be alleviated by doing it.
This is mental therapy.
Same as physical therapy.
Hurts like heck while your doing it, but the outcome is worth it.
You heal.
Fail to do the work.
The injury gets worse.
So it is all a mental decision and simply taking action that is the solution.

I too had some crying issues.
It was weird and devastating.
As a man that was raised not to cry.
As a father that did not permit much crying except when physical hurt.
It was surreal.


But all that you are being advised to do is the simple answer.
Not the easy answer
The simple answer.

I don't understand how to enjoy myself if I feel like this all the time...

The beauty of this statement Coly, is that you don't have to understand...
You just have to trust those that have gone through this already.
Trust me, there are those that pulled up their bootstraps and got through it in several weeks.
There are some that took months.
Some years.
The time it takes is not an exact science.
But the principles that one must follow to get through this are.

So here are some steps that you will want to take.
Do them daily until it is habit.

1. Daily physical exercise.
Walking counts.
What will you do?

2. Daily emotional and mental exercise.
Reading material about emotional health
read about anxiety.
Watching the same type of material
Meditation
See an IC
Journaling- Be sure to include the positives of things.
What will you do?

4. ruminating.
This is homework from me if you agree to do it.
Look up Guy Winch and his Ted Talk about Emotional First Aid.
Share with us what you learn.

With the rumination goes the focus on what you allow your brain and mind to think.
I challenge you to discontinue posting what you think the WH is thinking, doing, or what it all means because he is a WH.

As Blu so eloquently points out, this is a waste of time and adding to your pain.
It is the equivalent of scratching and clawing at an open wound and then pouring salt and dirt into it.

I caution that you continue to write and post everything that is negative about your sitch.
Writing further imbeds what you are thinking and starts to mix with emotion and then becomes your reality.
This is where the power is for you to take back the confidence that you once had and need to move forward.
You can do this.

5. Heed the advice of Surfer, Blu and any other DBer that is on the other side of your current challenge. Read their story as well. Learn from it. You do not have to figure it all out on your own.

Assemble your team or tribe or whatever you want to call it of folks that will be honest with you, support you, but call you out on the things that may seem fine in the moment but will cause longer term issues for you.

I am pulling for you.
I support you and I apologize if my 2X4 is a little more heavy than my dear friend Blu's were.
But it is time to snap out of the frozen state you sound to be in, and find your way forward out of the LBS fog by taking action.
You have people counting on you and supporting you.
You can do this.
As I part, try and ponder on this great passage form a great book.

“A man's mind may be likened to a garden, which may be intelligently cultivated or allowed to run wild; but whether cultivated or neglected, it must, and will, bring forth. If no useful seeds are put into it, then an abundance of useless weed seeds will fall therein, and will continue to produce their kind.” James Allen

[SH_]

Blu, the fact that I am feeling such anxiety must mean that, in my heart, I don't think that this family time is right. I did speak with my D about it and you are right it is causing her anxiety as well as she sees H doing what I asked him to do and all she sees is me getting stressed about the way he asked.

What will you do then?

His not contacting me directly is getting on my nerves. It's sending a clear message that I am not important anymore. How can he just cut me off in that way but still want to come over for family time, that's what I dont get.

Read Blu's message again. She explains exactly what it is that you should get.

I need to remove the rod from my back which i put there. If I need to draw a line in the sand then I need to have an R talk with him and that is stressing me out because I know I am not supposed to do that. Blu, you said you did have talks like this with your H in the past and it made him think. How did you eventually draw that line in the sand?

Why is an R talk needed to set boundaries?
My understanding of your sitch would indicate that R talks are not a good option.
Boundary setting does appear to be a needed thing for you.

Cherry, I think we both needed that foam 2x4!

Be sure to heed the thoughts. Blu has walked through the valley of death and come out the other side.
She is a wise gal.
No more chatting about the LBH fog and why they are thinking and time to focus on you lovely ladies and your progress forward.

[Coly23]

Thanks Surfer, Cherry, Hawker, SH. Your words of encouragement are very much needed and appreciated at thus time. This weekend I feel I have definitely gone backwards.

SH, your post has given me a lot to think about. I am going to re-read it several times before I come back to you, but thank you so much for looking out for me....

[job]

Please start a new thread.

[Painter]

Dear Coly, I'm just catching up on your situation and will post once you start a new thread.

I'm so sorry you're having a rough time. We're all here for you and have experienced the same feelings.

[Phoebe]

Coly, I just rad your threads, and I would like to post, but I don't want to get caught at the end of this thread. I'll be back when you get a new one started.

For now, though, I just want to tell you one major thing that helped me so much. Iv'e takes about it with SH and others, but this tis the single biggest thing that I started to do that helped me.

Recognize that you are grieving. You are grieving the loss of your marriage, and I honestly think that this is one of the most complicated types of grief. Unlike the loss of a spouse, you have the added pain of rejection, and self-recrimination. You are grieving the loss of your ideas of the future, your dear friend, your dreams, your ideas of what your family looks like, the easy comfort of a long-time companion, and much, much more.

Grieving is a process, and one that you must go through in order to reach the other side. First, you need to acknowledge how you are feeling. There is no order to these feelings. You may be angry, then sad, then optimistic, then back to the human water fountain, and you can whip saw rapidly back and forth between those emotions. They are all normal and part of your own individual process. Know that whatever you are feeling is perfectly normal and let yourself feel it. If you fight t5he emotions, they only grow until the consume you. Feel them, let yourself cry or whatever, and let them pass through you.

More later, lovely.

I have to run to another of my out-of-control GAL activities! : )

[Phoebe]

sorry about the typos.

[Cadet]

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2702062#Post2702062