The Fight for Self II

[CT1118]

WW came over tonight around 6 to drop off S4. They came in ans as usual I acknowledged her w/ a 'hey' and then immediately bent down to be at eye level w/ S4 - hug, kiss, listen to what he has to say. WW has some of S4's things in her hands, I make no effort to assist and she sets them on the kitchen half wall. S4 ran off and as the last time I saw he he vomited all over my place for 4 hours (and I mean everywhere) it seemed prudent to ask WW about his health. I was making direct eye contact and standing up straight with hands on hips, always do during drop off - its neutral body language.

Her answer was pretty matter of fact, but while she was speaking she saw 3 syringes by my microwave and excitedly says "J. Chr., have you moved onto the hard sht!?" I stared at her for a few seconds, then very directly and calmly said, "In couple of days I will be 6 months clean of my narcotics addiction. Those syringes are filled with dental bleach as I have put down payments to have my teeth repaired (I broke out 3 teeth at age 21 while I was high and she was w/ me at the time). I told you that I was done with drug addiction and I meant it." Well, a knife could have cut the air of her embarrassment, but I did understand her surprise as I abused many different substances for a very long time.

Anyway, she apologized and then her face lit up in an emotionally proud smile and she told me how great that was. She also said how happy she was for me that I was having my teeth fixed. She began speaking about other things. As she leaned her weight on the her elbows and placed them on the kitchen divider I knew she intended to speak for a bit. I made a deliberate decision to mimic her body language, which is a subtle projection technique to apply w/ women when you want to show you are listening and want them to feel comfortable (can't be blatant but try it, see what happens, works on men in the office too, but there you take a position of agreement while you are verbally disagreeing). She was speaking about her family in a "fill you in way" and then she noticed my haircut and told me how much she liked it, moved onto comments about how clean my place was and how much she liked the shirt I was wearing - all this expressed at different points as she interrupted her own story to say them. Did my mimicry induce that? Not sure, but like I said, its one technique when you want to subtly stimulate results from people.I did go off DB script by asking some things about them (been a long time since I've seen them), but I was aware of it, allowed myself to do it, and was cool and neutral when I did it.

I do not usually have S4 on Saturdays, but she asked last Mon if I would take him for the night, clearly from my story I had agreed. After the banter about her family she brought up his schedule. I changed my posture back to the upright arms on side, the schedule talk usual gets serious and I was ready for it. I always have s4 on Sundays and Mondays, but said I wanted her to take him Monday night. Mondays have historically been an OM day for her. I said it on purpose, wanted to see what would happen. She put up a brief defense of that not being her night, but I said "Saturday nights are not usually mine. We have a schedule that is 4 nights on, 3 off and it flips every other Friday (Friday nights are the monthly flip to even it 2 on 2 off). You asked for a Sat night and I agreed, you also asked for next Sat and I agreed. So yes, I want you to take him Monday and then after next Sat is gone, we will go back to the agreed schedule". She continued with some bs about concern for s4 and keeping his schedule and while she was far from yelling,but she was frustrated - I could tell she was scrambling as what I said to her was point blank and true. My reply " we have him on a schedule that he is used to, tonight is what is taking it off track".

At this moment s4 came out of his room where he had been gathering toys for about 10 minutes. WW said good bye, kiss, etc. She postured like a hug was aimed at me, I switched back to leaning on the counter and said "talk to you later" Can't recall what she said, but instead of walking out she let go of the open door she changed subject and began talking to me again for a couple minutes. Then she did another s4 goodbye round and this time I put posture back to the upright. She looked again like she wanted me to approach for a hug, I could have and it would have been received, we were only about 4 feet apart. I just bent my right arm and held my hand up flat and said "see you later, have a good night" She left.

I went into this scenario with detachment feelings, when she left I felt like I had bested the time. I thought in my head "she will text, she walked out wanting to say more" Five minutes after leaving, phone make the got a text sound. Walking over to check accuracy, it rings - WW. I answered like it was a work call (I quit letting her know I knew she was calling a number of months ago by answering w/ my work greeting, as if I changed her specific ring and its just another call). "I'm sorry I was such a btch about the schedule thing, I mean I don't know if you thought I was being a btch and I don't know why I acted that way, its not fair to you and you were right. I also...well, you look really good, like you are really changing yourself. You're in shape again, you're sober. I mean, you look happy and you are taking care of yourself. It really great, I think its great."

Textbook DB Wonka style validation responses from me during the call. Feel good for the exchange, but "believe nothing they say and 50% of what they do" Still way to early in the game to do a touchdown dance, but I think I moved the ball forward a yard or two. Ended call, went back to s4 and making him dinner. Looking forward to taking him to the beach in the morning, maybe a nap, then some time at the pool. S4 is awesome.

[ForGump]

Man, it sounds like you've got this thing (DB) wired. Seems like you're in a really stable place, in terms knowing who you are and what you want.

Really make me wonder if you shouldn't really just move on. See other people. What's the worst thing that can happen? You find someone who is more wonderful than who your W once was....

[CT1118]

Man, it sounds like you've got this thing (DB) wired. Seems like you're in a really stable place, in terms knowing who you are and what you want.

Really make me wonder if you shouldn't really just move on. See other people. What's the worst thing that can happen? You find someone who is more wonderful than who your W once was....

I'm not. I'm trying to be. It was only two days ago I was talking about my anger and how I flip through emotions. I'm better than I was and I'm not going to give WW anything for free again until if/when she shows me something.

I don't want to move on in terms of other women, which is the way I took your statement. I'm here to help myself be stronger and if by doing so my WW pulls her head from her ass and she and I can piece then that is what I am open too. My story above, yeah I held it together and stuck to my self, and yes I managed to hit a secondary objective of getting her to question herself, but looking at her and her body language wanting to embrace me and not doing it. That sht is hard man. I wanted to, I wanted to grab her, hold her, kiss her and tell her all will be better just come home.
But I won't, because what I have realized I want more is to be a good man for myself. To show self respect in front of my son, to her, and to my own future self so I that spend fewer and fewer nights lying awake in confusion. That I want more, so that is the objective. I can also do what little I have with some DB tactics to try and wake her the process, I will. For me though, the DB is all about you feeling better for you.

[CT1118]

ForGump, I got to be honest w/ you, I know in your heart you were supporting me, telling me I am doing a great job, and validating my strength. However, your comment about me moving on has been messing w/ me all morning. Its not your fault, but I have been fairly explicit about that question causing me struggle. I am choosing to work the DB program and come here b/c I believe it is the best course of action to improve the self - but also b/c a secondary result is a possible reconciliation w/ my WW. So I know you meant well, and you were correct about me knowing what I want, but I am just not as stable as I wish to be. Until I can get through one day w/out being troubled by my own apathy, maintain a feeling of loving detachment for 24 hours, or managing to not think about her OM's voice shrieking as I disconnect his shoulder, I am not as stable as I want to be. Only one of those emotions is desirable and the only one I intend to continue acting upon, obviously the loving detachment. Primarily I want two things here: 1. To be a man I can respect who is healthy and an upstanding example to all. 2. That I achieve number 1 and am able to be find strength of self in the face of whatever path my WW chooses for her journey. I have come a long way, but still don't see the end of the road.

Many here have praised my researched approach to my sitch and I am really glad for it. I hope it will help others to be able to help me if I expand as to why I am this way. I have three personality conditions which have affected me my entire life, I have never realized how these held me back (or sometimes helped) until this new era of me, and not one of them are necessarily qualities that society embraces:

1. I am painfully introverted. Do not confuse this w/ lack of confidence. Nature v. Nurture I am not sure. I was physically and emotionally abused for 10 years by my mother. My mother was her own chaos kid w/ unresolved childhood issues and she took these out on my father, my brother, and me. I caught the worst. Brother is 10 yrs older and left as soon as he was 17. My father stayed at work constantly to avoid her and eventually left my mother (they did reconcile 5 yrs later and are still together). I was alone w/ a very angry soul. As well, a relative molested me from age 5-10 (he was only 4 years older so, thankfully is was left at touching). This led to a response from me that if I remained locked in my own mind and gave the world nothing emotionally, they could not know my hurt. Funny thing about introverts is they make great leaders and speakers. Their ability to detach from emotions projected by others allows them to not really care much for how the world interprets their actions. I am renowned in my profession for my leadership and I regularly speak to audiences of 50-300 people and feel absolutely nothing in terms of nerves about it. I do however recoil when its over and people want to speak w/ me one on one - Ironic to say the least.
2. I am an INTP personality on the Briggs Meiers personality test. 3% of the human population are rated this way. You can look it up if you want, but it generally comes down to introverted, daydreaming, thinkers who see patterns in the world, struggle to understand things others find important/funny/disturbing/etc, and have little comprehension of emotional issues. This explains why my humor comes off as dark, why I can say things directly which may sound harsh, and why I am successful in my professional life - INTP's tend to think in ways which do not follow the rules and they tend to be very calm in very chaotic situations.
3. I am type II Inattentive ADHD. This is not the kid in class who can't sit still. The hyperactivity is in the mind, it never ends. Type II ADHD is a learning disability and tends to not be diagnosed in people until they get older and start to wonder why the coping mechanisms they have used their entire life begin to fail them - I was diagnosed at 41, this past June. People w/ this condition are predisposed to divorce, drug addiction, introversion, lack of empathy, misunderstanding of humor, a propensity for frustrated anger, and many other things which make mainstream society very difficult to navigate. It can make people look lazy, as they are unable to perform "normal" tasks like shopping, basic conversation, laundry, or paying bills. They cannot do these b/c the importance of such tasks is not able to be understood. Generally, deep emotion is only expressed when something one feels passionate about shows itself - people, things, places. I always knew I was different, but not always why. I am now on medication for it and the distracting noise in my head is gone when meds work. I am able to think, feel, and show emotion now like I have always imagined others do, but only while on the meds. The one superpower of type II ADHD - I can hyper-focus on a subject or task which interests me. Results in a complete sacrifice of time dedicated solely towards a particular understanding until one feels the understanding is being achieved. Not a great trait when a wife wants your empathy or attention. As well, I do not want to be on meds my hole life, so am trying hard to learn mechanical skills.

So, when one grows up not knowing why, but being aware that they do not view, understand, or approach the world in ways that most of society does, they either fall out and lose or they find ways to cope and make it. My way was always to turn to science and research for answers. I did this w/ people and relationships while in college in my young 20's. I studied how to approach women, how to speak with women in ways to get positive results, how act in business settings, how to project power with body language, how to negotiate, how to mediate, etc., etc. Then I went into life and experimented. In my M, I had quit using things which worked to keep me well (W was aware of my issues known at time and I hers), and when my son was born two months premature and my wife almost died in the process, I fell way too far back into myself, went back to drugs and alcohol, I did all this w/ a wife who is broken in her own way, and the rest is history.

Its pretty fascinating how predictable all of us are. Yeah, we are individuals to some level, but most of the time our behavior can be predicted down to a few reasonable choices. If you don't believe me, read about Game Theory, Occam's Razor, or personality descriptions by Freud. Not academic?: in short, the ability of science to predict our human behavior is why Amazon has a very high chance of know what you might want to buy, why economists can predict future social behavior based upon market shifts, and why the "old guard" here in the forums can tell others things are "script" behavior. All of us are predictable to a certain statistical level, accept that or not its true.

And thus, I use this approach in my separated, affair/addiction scarred marriage to try and make sense of me and of my WW. Believe me, I did my research - MWD and her approach, combined w/ advice of the "old guards" here seemed entire logical to my head and I came here as opposed to million other options I had. Sounds pretty cold and disingenuous, but I assure you, it is not. This is the approach I must use to feel the world. The medicine helps me experience things in a way I am not used to. I come here and rely on all of you to bounce stuff back to me. I learn every time. I thank all of you for it. The most selfish thing I have right now, is that by bleeding honesty all over the place, you all are better equipped to help me and to understand perspective when I wish to help you. A year ago, my lack of empathy would have not let me be here, or I would have been a nightmare for many. I am glad the arms of this place were open and that I have been able to accept the nurturing.

[Cadet]

Let me try to help with the words,
Instead of using "move on" try the words "moving forward".

I like to think that is what you must do.

With your scientific approach keep moving forward and you will get to the desired spot.

Hope that helps.

[sandi2]

Very interesting, CT. When you made the following statement in your first thread, I started to respond, but I think I left it alone.

I had never known, but when I read some psychology studies of women married to men who did not know the men had ADHD they all ended with the likelihood of an affair out of desperation. I sent that to my wife and she said it was identical to her experience.

I had been M for many years (even had a grandchild) when watching a tv commercial about attention deficient, my H said those were like the images flashing in his mind since he was five yrs old. Not only was he never diagnosed, but as far as I know, never discussed it with his parents or anyone.

It's not like you've described yourself, b/c he had a terrible time focusing and memorizing. He would not study for tests, etc. It would drive me crazy b/c I could not understand why he wouldn't at least, try to study. It takes him forever to answer a simple question I ask.....but I've never seen him do this with other people. It used to infuriate me. He would not discuss his feelings, nor engage with me about anything that required his expressions of his feelings. Needless to say, I was the complete opposite. So, my emotional needs were not met b/c I needed emotional intimacy. I wanted the intimate pillow talk.

Anyway, it just caught my attention when you said the above about W's turning to affairs in desperation.

[AndrewP]

2. I am an INTP personality on the Briggs Meiers personality test.

INTJ here with (some believe) a touch of Aspergers WW is ENFP - the so called "perfect match". Funny thing is that I found this out right around when she says she had decided to WAW. I wondered at the time why she wasn't as thrilled about it as I was.

Feel free to bleed all the honesty you want - you've been doing it with respect.

[Surfer]

CT. No time today. Read it - thanks for sharing (sorry for the w@nky phrase) but I mean it.

I know MB. I am "Driver Pioneer". Don't know the acronym. But am very impressed with your speaking. I do the same. But am not into introverted at the end. Used to be nervous on the speaking but no more.

You sound to be cycling again. Are you? If you are, what would you tell me to do. You know the game - you are far more impressive than I am at it. Get back into the game IF you are cycling.

Mate. Keep checking on you. I am here. I am listening - I will help where I can.

Surfer.

[Surfer]

I will re-read tomorrow. I takes me time to digest info. and the sun goes down earlier here so Surf is no longer up! Will be tomorrow though - best wash the mankini . Oh dear it wouldn't be a pretty sight.....

Surfer.

[Surfer]

By the way. High on certain spectrums such as lack of empathy etc can be high on autism spectrums (men generally border high as opposed to women) it can also border high on social (rather than 'mental illness') psycothapy spectrums. Watched a programme and read a book (part of - driver pioneers don't tend to read instruction manuals - they skim and get the jist). So my point is this. GreT leaders and achievers follow those spectrums. Anything YOU feel is lacking, you can work on MB tells you that - as you know.

Focus. That's what you are incredible at. Just pick the focus. Then DO IT.

Keep moving chap!

All the best.

Surfer.