Get comfortable. I saw few things in other thread today. I had some notes on a topic I had not shared yet...Why your wife had an Affair Same caveat as the other stuff - I'm not an expert, only experienced. Notes from different sites, but did best to use real sites and not snake oil. Not everything below applies to every sitch. These are general reasons from statistical and research collections or from professional councilors. I want to state, and I want you to think about this, the stuff below is not about what YOU did personally; you need to think about that yourself and it helps to write it out IMO. However, I have noted where I was guilty or other comments as applicable, hope my honesty gets your head moving. This information below is also specific to women's motivations for A's, but I guess some could apply to WH's (especially no. 1). This list is not all encompassing, just the highlights. Stuff could also apply to EA, but everything came from PA research. Items are numbered, but not for any reason. Only number 1 is the actual number 1 in just about every situation IMO. And, not all the terms are what the were, I shortened and/or used slang some for quick understanding. Lastly, the human experience is a very complicated thing: biology, psychology, free will, religion, culture, etc. I tried to stick w/the basic human rationalization stuff. I do have a few random reasons below the main list, which I will segment. A's will not happen for one reason alone and all possible reasons are certainly not below.Also, these are not different types of affairs (that is another subject), these are motivational contributors. And while reading, please remember, at worst, you are a contributor and not a cause. So, you ready? Question again was why did your W have an A:
1. Choice: Because she chose to do it. Your WW maybe an a-hole, an addict, a narcissist, mentally ill, but she is an individual. Chances are she planted the seed for this long ago in her mind. W built up to it. You had no say, you had no control. WW made a deliberate choice to have an A. Yes, this is true even if she was "drunk/wasted" and claims that 1 nighter was a mistake, her choice.
2. Opportunity: something created it, it existed. Women work, women travel, you work, you travel, church, school, girls night, social media, any way away from you where opportunity could exist. (for me, WW is a high level business exec in a time demanding industry dominated by men, as much of corporate USA is. She is gorgeous, charismatic, intelligent and in a position of power. That is opportunity).
3. Emotional: lack of or unfulfilled emotional needs. Some examples would be appreciation, affirmation, feeling loved, feeling safe, feeling heard, allowed to nurture, able to rely on you - this is a whole other post. ( I think we are all falling into this somewhere).
4. W got picked-up: ties in w/ above so I put it next. Emotional needs were not being met by M. She knows a co-worker, church friend, single dad at soccer practice, whatever. Small comments drop. Opportunist dude, sees opening. Flirting begins. We all know what this looks like, we picked-up this very same woman years before the OM. We mirrored and provided what she needed. So, a new dude, the OM, started by seeing only her good, gave her compliments, nice gestures, stroked her ego. She open up, perhaps about you or she hides you, OM states she deserves only the best and takes her side. Its what men do when they like a woman, we all know how to do it, even if its only instinctual for some and not by intention. Women do not always realize this, especially when the man has game. H's W got picked up by OM. Next thing H knows is W is getting the d from another guy.
5. Nice guy: too nice, H becomes her btch. H gave more than W did to the M. H was way too fluffy. H "spoiled" W like some men were trained to do from outside sources and she became a brat. H gave all, W gave 25% of that. The M was one-sided, H tried to please her more and more at his own expense. W knows you are a nice guy, but being smothered was too much for her.
6. W Steamroller: aka, H looks like a puss or gave the appearance of being one. Seems similar to above, but not quite when we look at motivation. W was allowed to get away with everything. H may have been weak willed, indecisive, H may have learned this role from his parents M, or H may have not cared because letting W have her way meant H did not have to hear W complain. H found personal peace and comfort by letting W drive the M. H let W make the decisions. W became the man, then she lost affection & attraction for H as he gave the appearance of being weak.
7. The Fairytale: In the USA (I think anywhere Disney can be translated), girls are spoon-fed the story of prince charming, daddy's girl, hollywood, media, pure disney crack cocaine bllsht. As a result, the expectations of M are not realistic for some women. W cannot process the stress of H disappointing, family life, work, activities, suburbia, and not meeting her own expectations. W cheats and faces tremendous guilt for not living up to her life's purpose to do it all, then W blames H for failures and justifies A.
8. No boundaries: couple got married w/ complete trust and no rules. Believed marriage contract was enough to stop any A. Never discussed what is OK and what is not. Thought love was enough and neither would ever cheat. Violations begin as working late, business trips, girls nights, social media time, constant phone use, helping a friend, H was always at work, etc. As M unhappiness/dissatisfaction increased, so did these unchecked behaviors w/out enforcement. (I am so guilty here. On my end too. We both worked a bunch and would leave one to watch S4 when he was S2, then he became S3, then he became S4 -etc. We had no family anywhere near us and we were broke, come home tag in and the other would go).
9.Sex: if you are over 35 IMO, you might have heard the rumor that men need sex and women don't. Yes, some W's cheat w/ sex in mind. W and H may not be on the same page w/ ML. Are not as comfortable w/ experimenting. One may have a sex addiction. Sex stopped. One partner has a dysfunction. One partner was selfish, lacked romance, frigid, quick, uninterested, etc. (I own this too, my WW and I had ML until the last three weeks before S, and interesting stuff too, but I realized after S that W had been saying for a while that I expected ML and did nothing to romance my way into it. That was a true statement).
10. Slipping: the H got fat, lazy, lost ambition to achieve, had no goals, boring, angry, uninterested, unromantic, distant, etc. H lost excitement for life an settled in. W decides she wants more in a man than wings, bud light, and football.
11. Behavior Encouragement: media, entertainment, celebrities, friends, family members, movies, magazines, etc promote infidelity in subtle to blatant ways. Trend can be to state that marriage is limiting, people are free, live your live, live for now, do what you want, generally take a dump on the face of anything not for your own immediate gratification.(ahhhh, my WW's lovely BF's and their support of her current behavior. If WW only knew. I have not stated on DB posts yet, 3 months before my WW and I did S, her BF from hometown visited and very blatantly and clearly said she would f-me while my W was out of the room. True victory of morality in my life, I declined).
12. Money: W depends on father and then H for money her whole life. W may make more than H and H is jealous. W or H may have spending problems or money management problems. Unexpected things cause crisis. Money causes stress. W strays. ( I think this could contribute in reverse too, H could stray too. This reason was listed as number 1 reason marriages end. It out ranked infidelity as a reason for D).
13. Legit: earlier I said that "you are a contribution, not the cause" for W's A. Y In this case, WW may have a legit reason to escape through an A - so she can be saved. H may be physically abusive/mentally abusive to W, pets, or children. H could be a negligent father or M partner out having A's on his own (revenge move by W), or H could be an addict/alcoholic. (I do not think anyone here can accuse me of not owning my role as an addict in my M. I have pretty much stated it everywhere applicable and then some).
14. Safety: H is a coward. H does not stand up, backs down, gets run over in the interest of "no big deal" or "not worth it". H lets others take advantage of W, W & H, or children just to "keep the peace". Its not that W's want to see H get in a fist fight, but they do like a spine, and they will go find a man w/ one. (I think I was the complete antithesis of this, over protection...I began changing this long before separation when S4, then S3, said "Daddy, why do you have Hulk in your blood"? God bless him).
Segmented:
Read more on it if you want. These are all pretty interesting, but do get more complex than the above. I did see the below over and over again as reasons for cheating, so I chose to list - I chose the more prevalet ones. Biological reasons: 1. Humans are not biologically monogamous. Men want to spread gene seed. Women want to receive strongest genes for protection and status. We are hardwired for many partners. 2. Strong survive, the weak get left behind. 3. Majority of animal kingdom does not partner for life. Humans are mixed on this.
Culture: 1. Not every culture accepts monogamy as natural or even reasonable. Ex. Papa New Guinea where some native cultures find multiple wives and forced marriage normal. 2. A's are natural and a part of keeping spouses faithful to love by allowing extra M encounters. Ex. in general French and Italian cultures do not have same response to A's as USA if the A's remain covered, but are accepted if not blatant socially. 3. Polyamory or open marriage is belief which includes multiple partners for love and not just sex. 4. Swingers. I better not have to explain this one.
Religion: not touching it. Find for yourself
Last,(drum roll for those waiting so patiently for MLC), Psychological disorders:
1. Depression: W could be in a legit medical psychotic depression and think excitement of an A will relieve it. 2. Addiction: all types can lead to A, enough said 3. Past abuse: remnant pain from severe psychological trauma. Different from MLC in that the behavior exhibited has been carried through entire life and is not on-set by middle age. History of A's and or promiscuity. Lack of deserve or worthiness for long term R's. 4. Psychosis: personality disorders, learning disabilities, etc can all lead to A's an other negative behavior if left untreated. 5. (you have been so patient) MLC was listed as a psychological disorder in every modern source I found (term originated in 1980 and was mostly applied to the H turning 50, buying a red sports car, and banging his 22 year old blonde secretary). There was no question in modern study of psych problems I found - MLC is a legit brain disorder. Sometime A is apart of it. Sometimes many A's are a part of it. Sometimes no A's are a part of it. The MLC application to woman is just now beginning to be researched by science, but suggesting so far that for women the age range can take place in a much wider gap than what median statistics show for men.
If you stuck it out, thanks, if you quick read or pieced it out, get back to work and stop being lazy w/ your fight for self. Educate your mind, I am trying to help for me and for all of us
"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies. BD: Feb '16 D: Mar '17 Piecing: Putting the self back together was my piecing. S6
Originally Posted By: Forgump from previous thread
Originally Posted By: CT1118
Man, I wish I could answer that. I am not sure, but I do think one begets the other and I think the MLC is in the lead.
Forgot to ask: you say MLC can beget WW, but not the other way around (which makes sense). So in some cases WW can occur w/o MLC. In that case, what drives the WW? If not MLC, what might a WW be motivated by?
Well what happens to an LBS that is just done? as a for instance?
Forgot to ask: you say MLC can beget WW, but not the other way around (which makes sense). So in some cases WW can occur w/o MLC. In that case, what drives the WW? If not MLC, what might a WW be motivated by?
Well what happens to an LBS that is just done? as a for instance?
Cadet, I just found out today, my understanding of what the WW actually is was mistaken via Wonka. Me thinking the chief motivation to create WW was the A, but to be a WW must also include spew, anger, aggression. But all that could still be in an MLC from my reading, so.....trying to understand. Sandi invented the term, but has not checked in on the discussion I had w/ Wonka yet to my knowledge.
Anyway, your question w/ my current understanding of WW; I could see an nonMLC WW being motivated by item 13 above (where H was abusive or a danger of some type) and/or item 10 (where H checked out and anger built up over time w/in WW until she explodes and stays that way for a bit).
Last edited by Cadet; 08/12/1611:20 AM. Reason: fix quote
"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies. BD: Feb '16 D: Mar '17 Piecing: Putting the self back together was my piecing. S6
A WAS = Walkaway spouse is someone who has been telling you for years and years the same thing and just gets fed up waiting for you to change so they walk away. This comes from MWD in the DB/DR book.
Sandi uses WW = Wayward Wife, which could be the same as above however they use an affair to escape the current relationship.
MLC = Mid Life Crisis, could also have the same symptoms and may or may not involve an affair. Although usually their is an affair, it could also be an imaginary one that is only in someones head. It is also involves a seriously lengthy period of TIME.
I tend to use all these terms fairly synonymously, and to be honest their is really little difference in all of them, IMHO.
My basic point with my post is that it is not unusual for a few basic scenarios to occur. One crisis in one spouse normally starts a crisis in the LBS. And the LBS very many times turns into a WAS given enough passage of TIME.
Wed was NC all day. Thur I experimented w/ a polite hello email which I had not made 1st contact in a long time; received complaining tension stress blah blah me monster stuff, as I expected. Day ended w/ small email exchange pertaining to banking & shared debts. I was small talk validating, but threw in a tiny emotional tickler stating I had appreciated something she had done - again, got the response I expected which was a "wow, that was really nice to read, you are so very welcome" followed by smiley face.
She went to S4's school last night for Kinder orientation and sent me a report about this morning. It was so long, involved and filled w/ so many decision points requiring my shared input I just called her out of easiness. Me calling her is not something I have done in months either. I decided I would speak w/ her using subtle flirting techniques and have no idea why the hell I chose to do that, I did choose to do it as before I called I thought about it. Anyway, it worked on her and she was bubbly and cheerful, responsive and flirty back. After I moved through all of the decisions she engaged conversation and I listened for about two minutes, politely cut it off at natural break in her speech, said I had to go.
When it was all over I did not feel good nor did I feel bad. Did not feel like I controlled each situation, but all three exchanges went as I figured. I am not in an apathy zone right now - just feeling detached, would say my behavior did not match detachment, but it was planned on my end. Checking myself is the only thing I can think of as to why after weeks of DIM validation and 180's into just the facts communication into complete apathy emotions on my end, followed by 1st full day of NC.No reason to speak w/ her tomorrow. Looking fwd to an NC. Was I unintentionally being an a-hole and messing w/ her head? Was I pulse checking her? Anyone else done something like this?
Seems to me I made a plan w/ no usable goal other than to see what would happen by doing what I did.
"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies. BD: Feb '16 D: Mar '17 Piecing: Putting the self back together was my piecing. S6
Was I unintentionally being an a-hole and messing w/ her head? Was I pulse checking her? Anyone else done something like this?
Seems to me I made a plan w/ no usable goal other than to see what would happen by doing what I did.
CT1118,
I did something similar a couple of days ago, although I had an overt purpose behind it. But, in answer to your question, I think the LBSs finally figure-out the WWs and realize we can toy (or mess) with them just like they messed with us. It feels good to pull their strings and watching their reactions play-out just as expected.
Mind you, I'm not saying it's good to do that, it's just that once you have the keys to the car sometimes you feel driving it.
In my case my WW was trying to get some money so I toyed with her until I was ready for the knock-out punch. I felt like she should know better than to try to lure me in with her bullsh*t so I messed with her. And, <blush> I did have some fun with it as well.
A WAS = Walkaway spouse is someone who has been telling you for years and years the same thing and just gets fed up waiting for you to change so they walk away. This comes from MWD in the DB/DR book.
Sandi uses WW = Wayward Wife, which could be the same as above however they use an affair to escape the current relationship.
MLC = Mid Life Crisis, could also have the same symptoms and may or may not involve an affair. Although usually their is an affair, it could also be an imaginary one that is only in someones head. It is also involves a seriously lengthy period of TIME.
I tend to use all these terms fairly synonymously, and to be honest their is really little difference in all of them, IMHO.
My basic point with my post is that it is not unusual for a few basic scenarios to occur. One crisis in one spouse normally starts a crisis in the LBS. And the LBS very many times turns into a WAS given enough passage of TIME.
Thanks Cadet. Officially back to my initial understanding of all concepts.
"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies. BD: Feb '16 D: Mar '17 Piecing: Putting the self back together was my piecing. S6
I GAL every other Friday night w/ some people from work. We go to a brew pub. I would like to do it more often, but try my best not to expose myself to too much alcohol these days, could easily take me to a bad spot emotionally.
Anyway, this guy I take to the gym w/ me is aware my spouse and I are separated, but I never told him why the S happened and he never asked - which is cool as sht of him. He will ask sometimes how I am holding up sometimes and last night he asked how her and I were talking these days. Told him about me being DIM, told him how that led to her telling me I was business like w/ her (he was w/ me in the gym, so he knew I took a call from her), told him about NC on Wed, etc. I was just relaying since he asked, not looking for advice.
Him not knowing she is in an A may have changed what he said to me or not, I don't know. He said "hey brother, I don't want to offend you, but have you ever considered that she is trying to reach out to you? The tings you told me she did and the way she spoke to you, she is clearly reaching out and you are clearly shutting that down. Is that what you want to be doing?" I just responded by saying "If her and I did not have a son, if her and I did not have such a long history, I would have been gone long ago and we would not even be discussing this. And I know from past experience that if I had done that, she would have come back w/in a brief period of time. But we do have a son, we do have shared debts to settle, we do have a long history. So I am doing the best I can to mimic being gone, w/out being able to be gone." Then some more people showed up and we dropped it before I could hear his response.
Got up this morning, had my hair cut, went and bought a couple shirts, spoke to some strangers along the way. Now trying to decide what to eat for lunch, which is really breakfast. Not sure about you all, but the initial loss of appetite when all the sht went down has stuck around. My pants fit better though.
Get my son tonight and all day tomorrow, will be great.
"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies. BD: Feb '16 D: Mar '17 Piecing: Putting the self back together was my piecing. S6
