The seed beneath the bitter snows is me!

[2Times2Many]

Link to previous thread: Uncharted Waters

I thought I'd start my new thread with a reference to one of my favorite songs - The Rose by Bette Midler.

I love the last verse:

Just remember, in the Winter, far beneath the bitter snows, lies the seed, that with the sun's love, in the Spring, becomes the rose.

I feel like I've been buried in the snow for a long time, but I hope that when Spring finally comes, I'll blossom. No, I don't hope. I know!

Job, I feel like we've been playing the pursuer/distancer game here. He behaves as though he's waking up and I get encouraged, thinking I see baby steps and soften a bit toward him, trying to be compassionate, understanding and friendly. Then I get slapped away. Then I withdraw and he starts the same stuff again. It has to stop! It's a cheeseless tunnel and we keep replaying the same scenario. I'm just sick of it. Baby steps don't work. He needs to make a few leaps.

He sent the flowers and note saying how awesome and amazing I am. He takes every opportunity that comes up to tell me how much he appreciates what I do. I know exactly what's going on. He's trying to smooth talk me into staying on in the business after a D. He so underestimates me. I'm not a fool and I'm not afraid of losing him. As you said, I'll be fine.

Mleigh4, thank you for stopping by. Yes, the curve balls are confusing, often frustrating and sometimes make me smh wondering if he thinks I'm that gullible.

I've been following your threads. It sounds like good things are happening in your sitch. I hope the positive interactions with your H continue. Keep up the good work and remember the key word ... patience.

bttrfly, thank you for the confirmation that I'm not the nutty one. It gets so confusing sometimes, as we all know.

I'm so sorry that your D is coming soon. I don't think any of us want things to end that way, but you seem so grounded and your attitude amazes me. You are a survivor and I believe you will be just fine. Better days are ahead for you.

HaWho, I was astounded when the flowers showed up while I was researching attorneys. I wondered if this is some kind of cosmic sign? Is this supposed to mean something. The timing was just plain eerie.

The other thought that went through my mind was to wonder what his gf would do if she found out H was sending flowers to his wife. I got a good chuckle out of that thought.

HaWho if your H goes bear hunting or buys a bug suit, please let us know. I honestly don't know how you do it. And your boys are a treasure. They are growing up way too fast because of all your H's issues, but that may not be a bad thing.

123Gwen, thank you for your post. I think you are right about the vision. You have to take off the blinders and see things as they are. Unfortunately, when dealing with a MLC spouse, that's not always easy, but it gets easier with time.

I found your post on Bright's thread very interesting. There are a lot of people who feel perfectly free to tell you what they think you should do, but they don't walk in your shoes. There are issues like insurance, taxes, financial stability, etc. that sometimes trump the "kick the bum out" mentality. It isn't simply a matter that he cheated or he walked out. I know it got so bad for me, that as soon as I heard the words "you should" or "if I were you, I would," I'd stop listening. I tired of "defending" my choice. You have to develop a thick skin and know in your heart and your head that what you do is best for YOU. You can't let those who don't get it get to you.

As always, my best to everyone.

xoxoxox
2T

[2Times2Many]

I think I've had enough. I think it's time to walk away from this mess.

I went to an employee's birthday party tonight and there were a lot of people from the office there, including the one who managed to get weed for H a couple of trips back. I'll call him Joe.

I had an opportunity to talk to Joe, one on one with no one else around, and asked him if H had asked him to try to get anything other than weed. Joe said yes ... ecstasy. I was actually expecting him to say coke, so ecstasy was a shocker. Joe said he waited a couple of days and told H he couldn't get it (which was true - he wouldn't even try).

Joe also said he was peeved because he knew H lied to him about some other issues. (Joe is young and is one of the most honest and giving people I think I've ever known ... a delight and someone I'd be glad to call "son.")

Joe was on the verge of breaking up with his long time gf (and eventually did) when H was here last time. He said H was giving him "advice" and talked about his (h's) gf as though it was just a normal thing and Joe already knew about it. Of course Joe knew nothing about that.

Joe said he couldn't understand what was wrong with H and that I didn't deserve to be treated the way H was treating me.

So, once again, H can't even show me enough respect as to keep his adultery discreet in front of our employees. What the h3ll is wrong with this guy? That was the most difficult thing for me to get through last time ... finding out that all our employees knew he was cheating on me and I didn't have a clue. I felt like such a fool.

And this time I'm trying to "protect" H's reputation in front of his employees by keeping the new OW to myself and he's doing the same chit to me again ... making me look like a fool.

The other thing that has been going through my mind since H left last time was the possibility that he was using coke, as I mentioned above. He had a runny nose nearly the whole time he was here (said he had a cold, but had no other symptoms) and said he was having a problem with nose bleeds. He also had burst blood vessels in his eye several days, which he said he couldn't explain when people would ask if there was something wrong with his eye.

So H lies, not only to me, but to employees and probably everyone else who crosses his path. He is a manipulator who is trying to manipulate me into continuing to enable his frat boy lifestyle. He's a serial adulterer and has no problem in announcing it. And he's into illegal drugs. He is a scum. I have zero respect for him and absolutely no sympathy.

I deserve so much better than the SOB he's become.

I don't want him in my life. He's become toxic. He is destroying his life and I have no intention of letting him take me down with him. He didn't just press the self-destruct button, he pounded his fist on it and there is no fricking way I'm letting him destroy me too.

So sad. He was once a really good guy. I don't know what happened to him, but at this point, I think he's too far gone. I no longer think it's a case of MLC and he's going to work it out on his own. He needs serious therapy (which he won't get). He has serious issues and I don't need them to be my problem. I think it's best for me to get out with what I can while I can, because he will eventually destroy everything he's built and me too unless I do something to protect myself.

So the plan is to get my legal ducks in a row and proceed. It isn't where I wanted to go and it won't be an easy task, but this has to end. I've reached the end of my rope and I have to look out for me. I can't imagine ever having a R with or trusting H again. He's lost and it will take higher powers with more patience than me to save him.

I've stood by him, given time and the benefit of the doubt (over and over and over). I give up.

[mleigh4]

I'm sorry to hear this 2T. To find out drugs are in the mix confirms that your H is making some terrible choices. It's his world, it doesn't need to be yours.

I agree that stepping back and away from this is a good idea. Make sure you are protected first and foremost. Don't make any rush moves or decisions. Take some time to step back, get your ducks in a row, then....take some time to let things settle. Emotions are high right now with his visit and leaving....my advice is to take some time to let it settle. My biggest life lesson has been to not make decisions or say anything when emotions are high....

Sending big hugs. It's been a bit of a whirlwind for you lately. I hope things settle enough for some answers to come your way.

[Sotto]

Hi 2T, I'm sorry to hear that and having that conversation must have been hard for you. I can understand how you feel and I would agree with MLeigh - take protective measures and separate your life from his as you need to. Whether that includes filing for D is of course up to you and I would let things settle before you are clear on your path.

You have been here for a while and stood for your M for a number of years in adversity and so I can understand if you feel it is time to close the door. The main thing is that you feel at peace within yourself about any decisions in the longer term. That's always my measure now...

Take care my friend ((((2T)))) xx

[2Times2Many]

Thank you, M and Sotto. I don't intend to do anything rash, but it's time to start doing something to bring all this to an end. I took steps a long time ago to protect my savings, etc. from H. The only issue that remains is getting out of the business and I need to find legal counsel for that as I've done enough research to know that I don't know enough and it requires more than H just handing over a check for my half.

I know it sounds like the knowledge I gained last night "set me off" but in reality, I've been thinking that this is the direction I need to go for the past couple of weeks. Last night was just sort of a catalyst, I suppose, to motivate me get up and start making things happen.

You ladies used the right words. My life has been a whirlwind for 3 years and I've reached the point where all I want is peace.

Bright gave me some advice several months ago. She said when considering whether or not to do things for her H, she always asked herself if she could live with it and was it the right thing to do?

I've taken that a bit further and have often asked myself if I initiated the D, could I live with it and was it the right thing to do? Until H's last visit, I could never answer yes to both questions. Now I feel like it's the right thing to do (for me) and I know I can live with it because I know I've done all I could to try to save my M.

I've known all along (as we all do) that I couldn't "fix" H or help him through all this or "save" him. But I always continued to care for him and wanted what's best for him, even if he didn't seem to want it for himself. I've tried to "lead" by example and show him the right way to treat people by how I treated him (with the exception of a few meltdowns). I've tried to have compassion and empathy and understanding and patience. I've done everything I could to keep his business from suffering as a result of his neglect.

But after H's last visit I realized that I'm tapped out and I just don't have the energy or desire to do any of that any longer. There just aren't any feelings there for H anymore. There's no compassion or empathy for him. I can't even say there's love for him. I don't hate him and I'm not angry with him. It's like I'm dead inside when it comes to him.

Anyway, in spite of the conversation with "Joe," the party was enjoyable and I met some new folks.

All I have on the agenda today is some laundry so I think I'll use the rest of the time to pamper 2T. I think she deserves it.

[job]

You've been given excellent advice...step back and give yourself a bit of time to digest and allow the anger and disgust to fade away. You've been here quite a while and yes, you've been dealing w/someone who has a lot of issues to resolve and he's not getting better, but worse, i.e., the drug use, etc.

Get out the yellow pages and start looking for a lawyer who deals w/business/corporate arrangements. He/she will be able to provide you w/advice that will assist you in getting untangled from the business. I know that you aren't doing this as a knee jerk reaction because you've been thinking about this for quite a while...so...write down your questions and make an appointment w/a lawyer. Do not share this info w/your spouse or anyone at work for the time being.

I'm very sorry that all of this has come to light at a party...but info does tend to fall into our laps when we least expect it. I do hope that you were able to enjoy some of the party after all of this.

Bottom line, protect yourself and your finances. There's nothing you can do to help him.

[mleigh4]

I understand all those feelings you have come to. Being on the same timeline, we seem to also be in the same place of knowing we have done all we can do. After 3 years, I think you have taken time not to rush anything and I am super proud of you for that.

I am so glad you have already taken the steps to protect yourself financially. Sounds like you are ready to take that next step and talk to someone about stepping away from the business. It must be a real tie with your H that makes it hard to completely detach? Sort of like my S for me....

I totally support you in your choices. You are a fighter and survivor and I admire your strength you have shown over the last year's. Enjoy your pamper day! You deserve it!

[HaWho]

2T - whatever decisions you make, my hat is off to you. (It always has been!) You have stood not just once but twice; that is amazing! You have tremendous loyalty within you.

I have no further advice to add to what has already been given. None of us here can believe something like this could happen to someone to whom we once entrusted so much of ourselves. It is sad to see someone your h's age applying all of these 'methods' within his life. All you can do is make the best choices for you. And thank goodness you have the ability and wits to do that in a logical fashion. We all see the alternatives and they are quite ugly.

I just think you, certainly, can hold your head up high.

Enjoy the R & R.

[2Times2Many]

Thank you Job, mleigh4 and HaWho for stopping by. You have no idea how much I appreciate all the support I get here.

I feel like I've been walking around in a daze since Saturday night. This whole thing just seems so surreal to me. If someone had told me 10 or 15 years ago that I'd be where I am today, that H would be doing what he's doing today, I would have told them they were as crazy as a loon. I guess we never know what life will throw at us.

I contacted an attorney today that deals with business issues. The secretary said she'd call back tomorrow to set up an appointment. If I don't hear from her, I'll move on to the next one on my list.

This whole thing is really frightening to me. When I "threaten" to end H's fantasy lifestyle, he's going to come out with both guns blazing. Given his propensity to uncontrollable anger, I'm actually somewhat afraid of the repercussions I'll have to face. It won't be amicable.

I haven't had much contact with H since he left. He calls into the office and we talk, but I try to keep it strictly business. He's ventured into other minor issues, like a movie he saw, but I try not to engage too much when answering.

And I stopped wishing him a pleasant day or weekend. That's really hard for me to do. He always ends with "hope you have a great day" but every time I responded in kind, I always hung wondering if I just wished him a good time with OW. So I stopped doing it. The end of our conversations are very awkward for me. I'm not like that. I'm usually pleasant and nice to everyone ... even the checkout gal at the grocery store. It's not my nature to do otherwise. But I think being nice to H just feeds his belief that he can manipulate me into doing what he wants me to. Oh well.

I have the rest of the week off, so I'll be doing for me with no "have to do's" on my agenda ... a lot of time to focus on me and help me get my bearings once again.

{{{HUGS}}} to everyone.
2T

[2Times2Many]

Oh, forgot this one. H changed his WhatsApp status to "Wide Awake." I'm not sure what he's awakened to, but that's the kind of cryptic "message" that I find unsettling. So sad what we've come to.

[mleigh4]

Glad to hear you contacted an attorney! It's a first step. You can talk, find out what to expect, then, decide if you are ready for that step or not. No commitment needed. I hope your H wouldn't turn on you if you do decide to leave the company. At least you have given him warning.

We sound a lot alike. I am so friendly to all, even strangers. I think that is why it's impossible for me to be mean or aloof to H. I also think sometimes he is only nice to me to keep me calm and in check, because if I get disrespected, all bets are off! Sometimes I wonder if H thinks to himself that he has me so fooled....but then, it's his conscious he has to live with. Right? We should remain true to ourselves, stay authentic

Sending (((hugs))) back 2T

[job]

I'm glad that you've decided to see a lawyer about the business. Keep the info to yourself and until you decide what you are going to do about the relationship as well as how you plan to deal w/the business relationship, etc.

If he should say something about your leaving the business, you can point out that it's just a business and as a partner, you have decided it would be much healthier for you to start fresh elsewhere.

Yes, he's going to be madder than an old wet hen because he relies on you so heavily to take care of things, but that's the consequence of his actions/choices and he'll have to get use to doing for himself. It's just business and you aren't doing this to punish him, but to help yourself out of an uncomfortable situation.

Enjoy your time away from the office.

[123Gwen]

2times - It is always helped me to deal with MLC under two categories "business" and "personal" - I would not be honoring myself or the man I married if I didn't attend to the business side of things to protect myself and minimize damage. The man I married would never want me to ba a burden to our children or to be destitute. I kept this philosophy side of thing in the forefront and treated the personal stuff entirely different. I read MWD and focused on GAL and struggled immensely with the emotions but I have never regretted my focus on the business side because it allowed me to come out the other side with some control. You are being very strong and are amazing. It is very hard to face the unimaginable but you are doing it my friend.

[bttrfly]

Hi 2T ... Wow, what a revelation ... it's so hard to think of things like that as a gift, but they really are: imagine going several more months not knowing the information you now have?

I echo Gwen here: separate out the business vs the personal. It's so much easier to take care of yourself when you do that. My atty said in our first meeting that because I was a business person I would have a much easier time doing that and it was essential to taking care of myself ... that's proven to be one of the most honest statements of the past 18 months of my life. I share it with you in hopes that it helps you as you go through this next phase.

Keep posting, we're all here for you honey. xoxoxoxoxo

[2Times2Many]

Job, I'll keep my "comings and goings" under the radar until I have a clear direction and understanding of what needs to be done.

You are so right. He couldn't live the life he's living right now without me managing his business here and depositing his paychecks for him. In that respect, he's had the life of Riley and will be very angry when I head in a direction that threatens that.

The thing is, if he decided to come back, I don't think there is any way he could ever convince me that his return was for any other reason than money and his desire to keep me working in the business. And I can't imagine ever just accepting that he did something nice for me and not have this suspicion that he's playing me because he wants something from me.

Gwen and bttrfly, you are both so right about separating the business vs the personal. I tell myself frequently when thinking about the business end that it's just business ... we are just two partners working out a business deal. Nothing else.

On the personal side, when I consider his behavior, especially the drugs and assaulting people on the side of the road, I know I simply don't want that kind of person in my life. It boggles my mind that he's become the person he has. I'm beginning to think that money and business success brought a monster to the surface.

I don't want to continue working with him and I don't want this kind of guy in my life, but it's still difficult to embrace the direction I'm going. This isn't the direction I would have chosen for myself. I feel like I've been hurled down this path by H and I'm forced to accept it and make the best that I can out of it.

I try to remind myself that many have been in this place before and survived (and even prospered) and I will do the same.

One of the most difficult things to get past is I feel like I've been used and when H decided he didn't "need" me anymore, he tossed me aside and walked away. Unfortunately for him, I think he realizes he was little premature and is trying to control things to his benefit.

I'm still sorting out why I would let someone use me like that and not see it for what it was. I suspect I did realize what was going on years ago, but chose to stick my head in the sand and ignore it. The question is why? I'll keep exploring that.

Anyway, H called last night while I was eating dinner. It's the first time he's called here since he left and it was 5:30am where he is. He asked how my little stay-cation was going and I said fine and turned the convo to business. It was a brief call and he hung up fairly quickly saying he was sorry he interrupted my dinner.

The call was followed up with a text saying he needed a place to stay when he comes back and would prefer to stay here, but would get a hotel if that's what I wanted. He asked me to think about it.

I did and decided to say okay. My reasoning is that if he stays at a hotel, he'll charge it to the business since in his mind, he's "traveling" for business. I'm pretty sure the tax man would frown on that deduction and I really don't want to get into an argument over that. I have bigger battles to fight.

So I replied to his text this morning with "Staying here at the house is fine." Nothing more.

He responded, "Thanks. I'll manage a permanent solution asap."

I didn't respond.

I want to thank everyone for their support and encouragement. You have no idea how much I value my "family" here.

xoxoxo
2T

[Esame]

2T firstly I wanted to thank you for stopping by my thread. I really appreciate your advice, and what you said about the OW being jealous of me really helped. I didn't think there was a cure for the "mind movies", but I'm working on it.

As you know I've not been around the forum much, we are still at my mum's and with my 3 children and sister's two it is madness most of the time. I just read your latest posts thought sand I had to reply. Honey I agree with you, it is time to get some legal advice. He must be insane to not see what he is about to lose, and Luke you I would struggle to trust him if he ever came back. I would worry it is for financial reasons, even if it's not. I don't understand why he would ever jeopardise what you had, but then again I don't understand MLC at all. I also don't understand why a grown up man would risk wis business, family and loving wife over drugs and an OW, but that's an even harder question to answer.

Huge hugs to you sweetie, you have worked so hard to give your marriage and business the best chance. I think you are an inspiration to us all, and one day he will be truly "awakened" to the level of his stupidity but it will be too late for him.

[mleigh4]

You are very nice to allow H to stay with you again, I get your reasoning. Make sure you keep your decisions in regards to him about what is best for YOU. You seem to me to be a very thoughtful, giving and considerate person.....prime for a MLC"er to take advantage of.

Your question, about why you would let someone treat you this way for so long, resonates with me. I think it's because we have a hard time accepting they are no longer who we thought they were? But I also think we are getting there and will be happy down the road that we took the time we did to work through it.

Sending you good wishes, hope you are having a nice weekend.
M

[2Times2Many]

M, thank you for stopping by.

I am trying to make decisions based on what is best for me. But, you're right. I am a very considerate person and I am ripe for a MLCer to take advantage of. I have never been the kind of person that would intentionally do or say something to hurt someone else. That's one of the things I've come to really understand about myself. I've come to realize there is a line between being polite and considerate and not being a doormat to others.

I have a really long fuse (in spite of the rants you read on here) and someone has to push me pretty far before I react and stand up for myself. I'm also the type that tries to avoid confrontation ... at least I was. I'm much better at confronting issues now.

So much growth. Whether it's good or bad, IDK.

I think that tendency to have a long fuse may be what made H feel like he could go the "I guess I want to have my cake and eat it too" route with me. I'm beginning to wonder if my being understanding and nice to him is a signal that he's regained control and can get me to give him what he wants.

Unfortunately for H, he hasn't been around enough to see that I'm not the person he walked out on. I've changed. I choose my path ... not him. And I see what he's trying to do when he starts the mind games and manipulation tactics.

I think he's working under the assumption that I'm afraid of losing him (and I was for the longest time). That's changed.

As for him staying here, it's college football season and that's something I enjoy immensely. That will make it easy to keep busy for the two Saturday's he'll be here. I also have a week off while he's here, so I'll only see him in the evenings. That week is also already filled with appointments for hair, nails, etc and the dreaded colonoscopy I've been putting off forever.

If any R talk comes up, I will just remember my key words ... adultery, drugs, uncontrollable anger and assault of strangers along the side of the road. That should keep me pretty focused and hopefully help me avoid falling into the manipulation trap.

I have an appointment with the business attorney in a couple of days. I'm looking forward to some education and guidance.

My best to everyone.
2T

[kml]

If any R talk comes up, I will just remember my key words ... adultery, drugs, uncontrollable anger and assault of strangers along the side of the road.

Write this out on an index card and stick it in your pocket. Excuse yourself to the restroom and reread whenever necessary.

[mleigh4]

2T we are SO in the same place, and very much alike. Great post, you sound strong and grounded and in control of you, which I really admire.

KML, I like the index card idea.

[Esame]

So much growth. Whether it's good or bad, IDK.

2T, I think the growth is the only guaranteed good thing that can come out of the limbo we go through. I would even go as far as saying that I believe if a R survives this it can be better, and if it doesn't w are better "candidates" for future happy relationships. I don't know, the more I reflect in my part in our marital problems, the more I appreciate the personal development and the opportunity to change.

Make the post it note with those key words, you've put up with too much for too long, it's time for you to put you first xxx

[Jack_Three_Beans]

...I would even go as far as saying that I believe if a R survives this it can be better, and if it doesn't w are better "candidates" for future happy relationships. I don't know, the more I reflect in my part in our marital problems, the more I appreciate the personal development and the opportunity to change...

Wiser words have seldom been spoken.

[job]

Esame,

Very wise words that say it all.

[2Times2Many]

KML, thank you for the index card idea. I'll use it!

Esame, your words are very wise, indeed. This whole mess brings on a lot of self-examination and a lot of opportunity to grow and become a better person. I believe that regardless of the outcome, I will come out of this a much better person - one who is more confident, self-assured, self-reliant and knowledgeable about and comfortable with who I am and who I want to be.

It's so funny to me. H keeps talking about finding happiness. I've learned that you can't be happy in life unless you're happy with yourself. I'm very happy with who I've become and continue to become. A very valued gift from this journey.

I saw the business attorney a few days ago and I didn't really get the answers I was looking for. I wanted advice on what steps to take to exit the business and insure that nothing would come back to haunt me.

She started advising me on what I should do to "protect" myself (most of which I've already done). Okay, fine. I get she's trying to look out for my interests. But at this point, I don't think H has any desire to harm me financially and if I did some of things the attorney suggested, it would start WWIII. H would go on the warpath and there would be absolutely no possibility of a civil D. It would get ugly fast.

Right now, he feels guilty and (sorry to say this) I can use that to get him to treat me fairly. I've used the past three years to get myself in a position of not needing money from H but still need to avoid losing what I have in a D settlement. Poking the bear would not be in my best interest at this point.

I'll be moving on to the next attorney on the list or let my D attorney choose a business attorney he's worked with before. That may be the best option.

I've pretty much resolved in my mind that a D will take place and I may be the one to start the process. The thing about the drugs pushed me over the edge, I think.

It truly saddens me to see what H has and is doing to his life. He's lost my family (my kids don't want the vanishing Grandpa around their kids), he's lost his family, he's about to lose his M and I expect the business will be next. Complete self-destruction of everything he worked so hard to build. For what? Parties, booze, drugs and sex. So, so sad.

But enough of that.

I hope everyone is enjoying a wonderful weekend.

2T

[mleigh4]

2T, try not to worry about what H is losing, and think about what you will be gaining. Think about the changes you can make in your life to make it what you have wanted it to be for so long, the things you can control.

I printed up the quote from Jack three beans "Life is about how you handle plan B". It is so so true for us here. We can strive to make plan B so much better than what we are currently dealing with!

Sorry the attorney didn't help much, I think talking to another would be a good step.

I hope you can find some peace once you get past some of these tougher steps. Just handle one thing at a time, don't try to decide about everything at once, it will feel overwhelming. Seems your main focus is to first, exit the business. Try to stay focused on that only, the other decisions can come later, right?

Hang in there, sending positive thoughts your way. ((Hugs))
M

[bttrfly]

oh honey sounds like that lawyer was one from the "get em fighting so you make more money" team. i'm sorry its come to this.

xoxoxo

[Esame]

2T any news from the second attorney? I hope that went better than the first, sometimes I wonder why people that lack basic diplomatic skills chose careers in law.

I hope you are keeping well

(((Hugs)))

[HaWho]

2T - how are you? I've been thinking about you.

[2Times2Many]

HaWho, thanks for the shout out. I'm doing ok I suppose. H comes back in about 4 days and I always get antsy beforehand. I'm wondering if he's come up with a counter-proposal to my D proposal. My manipulation, sweet-talk, lie detector is on high.

I haven't had much interaction with H. I've pretty much been dark except for the weekday calls to the office. I get my business "report" out of the way and try to wrap things up quickly.

I've been quite busy at the office. I've been putting together a "how-to" file for all the tasks I do (bookkeeping, payroll, tax payments, etc.) It never really occurred to me before just how much I do that no one else here knows how to do. Some know bits and pieces, but that's the extent ... just bits and pieces. When I'm done, anyone in the office (who I give access to my file) should be able to do everything I do short of signing a check.

It's been kind of a downer doing all that, but I honestly just don't see any outcome to all this other than a D and the more I think about that and the person H has become, the more I realize that D is actually in my best interest.

H could come home tomorrow and make every apology under the sun, but I just can't imagine him ever convincing me he wanted to come back for any reason other than money and what I bring to the business. That's a pretty lousy foundation for a relationship and looking back over the past few years, it seems that his been "his" foundation. I want (and deserve) more.

His lying has become outrageous and non-stop, not only to me but to our operations manager (and she is on to him). I honestly wonder if he's even capable of telling the truth anymore. And he lies so effortlessly over absolutely stupid stuff. It's as though he actually believes what he's saying to be the truth. I ask myself if I could ever fully believe him again ... trust that he's being honest with me, and I just don't see it happening. I fear there would always be this tiny seed of doubt lurking in my mind or that some innocent little thing would send my mind into a tailspin making me think he's being dishonest when he wasn't. Again, not a good foundation to build on.

And since this is our second go-round with this kind of stuff (MLC Part 2), I can't imagine ever living a day with him when I didn't fear he'd just do all this again. I can see myself with this constant worry that he'll do it again 6, 7, 8 years from now. I don't want to live that way.

There are so many other things that I just can't imagine doing or feeling with him again. He's done so much damage that I question how I could ever get past it all. There's just so much there. It's overwhelming to me.

And then, there's the drugs and the anger control issues. I actually talked to my IC yesterday about not doing anything to "poke the bear" because I was afraid of bringing that anger to the surface.

I just don't need, nor do I want, all that in my life.

So, I'm getting things in order to leave him. The how-to files at the office are so there isn't a great deal of disruption there. Our employees are great people and I don't want my and H's personal issues to adversely impact them. They don't deserve that.

That's where things stand at the moment.

H's visit should be interesting. I'm ready ... just not looking forward to dealing with him.

Other than all that, I find myself wanting to just be a vegetable ... wanting to just sit and think ... without a great deal of motivation to do anything else. I suppose it's normal. This whole thing saddens me. But I force myself to get up, get moving, get out of the house. Some days, it's tough. Then I think I can't be "up and on" all the time, given the circumstances, so I try to cut myself some slack and give in to the "lack of motivation" sometimes - feel the sadness and learn to let it go. The most important thing, though, is I know this won't last forever and I am going to be fine and happy again.

In the meantime, I love college football and the season has started, so the distraction is most welcome each Saturday. It's kind of hard to veg out when my favorite team in on the screen.

Hope everyone has a wonderful weekend.
2T

[job]

I'm sorry it's come down to you seriously thinking of ending your marriage, but I do understand. Just make sure you have your ducks in a row.

If you feel up to getting out this weekend and want to take in a movie, I recommend Sully. I just came back from seeing this movie and I would go again. Clint Eastwood did a heck of a job directing it and Tom Hanks and all of the actors did an outstanding job. When the movie was over, everyone stood up and clapped. That's how good it was for a 1:30 showing and it was packed!

I will be keeping you in my thoughts and prayers.

[BrightFuture]

2T, I’ve following along… You have my full support in your decision, whatever it is. I can see how it must be discouraging when you constantly have to deal with your H’s lies. I would not do well in this kind of situation either. I admire your desire to not let the employees of the company down because of the personal things between you and hour H. You are a great person, with a lot of integrity!

It is ok to feel like a vegetable… I like to do this once in a while… I actually wish I could do it more often, as I’m an introvert by nature and need to recharge by just being alone and doing nothing.

I hope your H’s visit goes with as little stress for you as possible!

[mleigh4]

Hi 2T. I can relate to how you are feeling. I think you are smart to get your ducks in a row. I am sure it is unsettling knowing that H will be back soon.

Definitely take that down time you feel you need. Listen to your mind and body and follow the lead. I am just like Bright, down time and alone time is how I recharge. When emotions are high, more down time is needed. Like you said, give yourself some slack. No, you can't always be upbeat. You are human and will have up days and down days, especially with everything on your plate!

Take a deep breath and get ready for H visit. Make sure you are well rested so you can deal with what comes with it....lies, drama....if you expect it, then it may be easier to deal with.

I do believe the answers come, some of mine have....it just takes time and getting yourself into a good place to hear them. We are here for you, hang in there 2T.

Sending big hugs and positive thoughts
M

[2Times2Many]

Seems like forever since I posted anything, but it certainly isn't because there's nothing going on.

H returned a week ago and the second night he was here, he started right in on my D proposal. He said he couldn't buy me out of the company and started trying to convince me that what I wanted (a totally clean break) wasn't in my best interest. I was a good girl, drank the STFU smoothie and then plastered duct tape all over my mouth. That caused him to keep talking and talking and talking.

At first it was a list of reasons why a clean break wouldn't be good for me (financially), then he had a bunch of ideas that would involve a D, but me staying tied to (and working for) the company, then he said it would wipe out his savings and he wouldn't do that, then he said he wouldn't take out a loan and burden the business, then he said I could find someone else to buy me out (our agreement gives the shareholders the right to veto that), then he said he wasn't going to "start over" again, then he finally said he was scared and that he was afraid if I left the business, it would fail. (That's about the only thing he said that I actually believe.) Then he put the onus on me to find a way for him to buy me out without "damaging" him.

He also said (twice), with hands in a praying position, that he hoped I wouldn't completely shut the door because he wanted to remain friends.

He told me we didn't need to get attorney's involved ... we could just save that money and work out a settlement on our own. (Uh, no.)

It was quite enlightening, to say the least. I just told him he had given me some things to think about and left it at that.

He also said he was seeing a psychiatrist and taking Prozac for his depression. I don't know if I believe that one or not.

He also said he was involved with yet another self-help group and he realized his issues arose from his childhood and he was working on that. I did some research on the group and they don't impress me. Hopefully, he really is getting professional help.

We had another discussion, where I again just kept my trap shut, that was lie after lie after lie. All of that was an effort to try to convince me he was doing things for the business that I can prove he isn't. I'm sitting there, listening to all of it, thinking, "Don't you know that I can check up on that?" Truly sad.

Other than that, things have been pretty calm. We did have a disagreement that I took the duct tape off for. He was trying to use the things he's picked up from that group to "analyze" me and my "introverted-ness" based on my childhood upbringing although he knows I had a normal childhood and don't have any skeletons in the closet that need to be dealt with. I was a very happy kid with parents who weren't perfect, but never harmed me in any way. I called him on that BS and went off to spend some time in the bathtub.

The next morning (my birthday), he took my hand and apologized for saying what he did and upsetting me. It felt really strange to have him holding my hand.

He got me a card and flowers for my birthday and took me to dinner.

I'm doing fine, though. His behavior has been pretty much par for the course and hasn't really rankled my feathers. And nothing he's said or done has changed my mind. I am more and more convinced with each passing day that putting an end to all of this is the right thing to do ... for me.

I am the kind of person that tries to avoid hurting or harming others and a D and leaving the business will harm H much more than me (if I'm treated fairly). I really hate to do that to him, but he put us where we are and why should I suffer for years to come because of his poor choices? I am sincerely sorry that he is where he is and I do care about what happens to him. I feel no ill will or vengeance toward him, but enough is enough. I simply have nothing left to give.

I hope everyone is doing well.
2T

[job]

I think you did a bang up job of drinking the STFU smoothie and keeping the duct tape on as long as you did. Bottom line, he doesn't want to get up off the money to buy you out and yes, he knows that you are the one that is keeping the business afloat and it could very well go down the toilet if you left. I'm glad you aren't allowing his Kool-Aid mixture confuse you and yes, you definitely need a lawyer to sort the business ends out. The first thing would be to get someone in to do an audit and estimate what the business is worth at the current value and go from there. My sister had to do this when her h died and she began co-owner w/her BIL in the excavating business.

He really is off in La La Land if he thinks that you'll agree to anything he's propsed and from the sound of it, he's not seeking the proper professionals to help him w/his issues.

Bottom line, you know what you need to do to cut the ties and it's up to you when you decide to do so. You've been a very patient woman and have tried everything, but he's still twirling in the wind and you can't continue like this for a very long time. It's time to think of you for a change.

[HaWho]

2T - nice to hear from you. And wow, nice job zipping it. You sure did learn A LOT.

I did laugh out loud that he wants you to find the solution to this problem for him without damaging him. I am sure you, feverishly, are working on that one. Too stupid even to believe.

[mleigh4]

I was wondering how things were going with his visit, glad to see your update.

It's the best place to be, when we finally get to the point where we are thinking of what is best for ourselves. I am very happy to hear you are thinking that way, because from what I have seen, they are not thinking of anything but themselves, no matter how much they act like it's all in our best interest.

Take care 2T, you sound really good.

[bttrfly]

Happy belated birthday 2T ... and thanks for the visit on my thread. YOu've shown incredible patience in the face of quite a lot. I'm glad to read you're putting your needs first and doing what is necessary to protect and take care of yourself. I'm very proud of you!

xoxoxoxoxo

[Esame]

Happy belated birthday 2T!

And, WOW! How did you you manage to keep quiet, you must be so proud of yourself!

How are you feeling about everything? I hope you are well xxx

[job]

Well, let me chime in too! Happy Belated Birthday!

[BrightFuture]

Happy belated Birthday, 2T!

[2Times2Many]

Thank you all for the birthday wishes.

HaWho, I found that "challenge" from H interesting as well. My attitude is pretty much that it's not my problem to solve.

Job, I do intend to have a valuation of the company done. H has already asked our accountant to do that, but I have no idea what H told him to "look" for or how he said he wanted it done. The accountant is a good guy and I would normally trust him, but I fear if H said I want an eval that covers this and only this, that's what the accountant would do.

It frightens me a bit because we had a valuation done about a year and a half ago and last week H tried to tell me the business was worth about a third of that figure. Sales have been off a little, but certainly not that much. I'm going to ask my attorney to recommend someone to do an independent eval.

H is trying to be on his best behavior, but it's the little things, you know. We'll be having a conversation, there will be a lull and he'll pick up his phone and start playing a game or texting people and just zones out. It's just plain rude and I find myself wondering if he does that to his friends.

I was watching a football game last Saturday and he plopped down next to me on the couch and asked if he could watch a recorded show. Now, we have other TV's in the house. He didn't have to commandeer the one I was watching.

On a more positive note, I had a medical screening test done yesterday and he drove me there, brought me home, prepared and cleaned up dinner.

He also read me a text he had sent to a friend that was lamenting not being able to "find that person." H told him that the right person was out there and he knew that because he had found that person and then screwed it all up. He said, "You see. I do tell people how wonderful our R was." So????

Somehow, we got on the topic of Karma a few nights ago. I said that there had been things I'd done in the past and I felt like I eventually paid a price for that ... Karma. He said he believed in Karma as well and that he was paying his price now.

I see a lot of regret in H. I just don't know if it's regret for how he's treated me, regret for what he's done to his own life or some combination of both. Probably a combination of both, but my feeling is that he's more regretful for the damage he's done or is doing to his own life than anything he's done to me.

Oh well, nothing I can do about that. He has demons to face and only he can conquer them ... if he ever chooses to do so.

I hope everyone has a great weekend.

2T

[Esame]

Their behaviours is crazy isn't it? How can someone that believes in Karma treat people around them this badly? It's insane! I'm glad he supported you through your medical though, that was nice of him.

At the beginning of this I hoped that I would see some regret too, but now I don't know if there would be a point! In a way it might even drive H even further away. Then again I might feel better if he does, who knows..

Take care 2T xxx

[bttrfly]

2T you continue to impress me with your resolve and equanimity in the face of the madness that is MLC. Great job. You are an inspiration. xoxoxoxo

[2Times2Many]

Hello all,

H left a couple of days ago. We managed to get through 2 weeks in the same house without fireworks and only the one disagreement I mentioned earlier.

He did a little yard work for me, grilled out a couple of times, was very good about doing dishes, etc. He even got a little flirtatious a couple of times a few days before he left. He was pinching at my rear with the long grill tongs and at one point, grabbed my face with both hands, tilted my head up and planted a kiss on my lips. But, he had had a few beers, so I don't put any significance into any of that stuff.

This may be kind of jumbled up because that's the way things are in my brain right now.

H still insists he wants a D "for closure." He said we were "already divorced" and our marriage was just a piece of paper. He said, "You're not in love and I'm not in love so there's no point in maintaining a M that is a farce."

I just replied that I was sorry he felt that way. I said that it's not the "piece of paper" but what it represents. I said that to me it would be like saying a wedding ring was just a piece of metal, and (again) I was sorry he felt differently.

He tried to insist that even afterwards, he will still "be there" anytime I needed him and all I had to do was call and he'd get on the next flight. Yeah, right.

At one point, I told him I had a question and would really appreciate an honest answer. He said, "Okay." I asked if he wanted the D so he could pursue a more serious R with another woman. He said no. He said he wasn't seeing anyone. I brought up the OW he told me about in June (I think - I'll have to look back through my threads) and he said he stopped seeing her "months ago."

I really don't know what to make of that of answer. I fully expected him to say yes. He had no problem telling he wanted to pursue a R with OW during MLC Part 1. If he's still involved with someone now, why deny it when he's already told me an OW is in the picture? This OW sitch is making my brain hurt! I know, I know. I shouldn't have asked the question in the first place.

He said he understood my feelings that I can't stay in the company after a D and that he was disappointed. At some point he again expressed that he was scared about what would happen if I left but understood that I was the type person who was either 100% in or 100% out. Then he went into the difficulties and expense of replacing me AND trying to buy me out at the same time (assuming that would happen).

He still insists he will not get a loan to buy me out of the company, will not drain his savings, etc. He is pushing for a "no cost" buyout where he pays me over time. Uh, no.

He also said he does not want to give up his investment in our home.

It was full court press and then some.

One amusing thing was the valuation the accountant did of the company (which I will accept and be good with). It came in higher than even I expected! Suddenly, H realized that my proposal was actually less than what I should be entitled to. Later that day, he launched into a speech about how he wanted to be fair and he appreciated my willingness to take less, but I was entitled to my full share and he didn't want to cheat me ... but he's not doing this and he's not doing that and back into trying to wiggle out of paying me upfront. Huh? I'm confused. You want to be fair but on your terms?? Okay, got it!

Then he went behind my back and told our manager that we were getting D and he was buying me out and she would really have to step up her game ... learn everything she could before I left.

When I expressed my displeasure about talking to her without me (it should have been something the two of us did together, in my book), he said he didn't tell her we "were" getting a D, but that we were talking about it. He said, "I wouldn't tell her that because it's not definite yet." Okay, so I'm scratching my head. She says he said one thing, he says he said something else and then throws in the little tidbit about not "definite." If your goal is turn 2T's brain to mush, you're doing a very good job there, h!

A couple of day later, he told me he had decided to sell the company. Huh?? I just told him that was up to him. It made no difference to me whether he kept it or sold it.

(HaWho, how in the heck do you do this?)

As I said at the beginning, all this is jumbled up in my brain and it may take a while for me to sort through it all.

My unspoken question to h is, "Do you want a D? If so, come up with the money to make it happen and stop throwing up all these obstacles to gum up the process. And stop insisting that I be the one to come up with a way that doesn't cost you money."

I want to shake him and yell, "Hey, Dude. D's cost money. No one comes out with everything they want and no one wins. Wake up!"

In spite of all that craziness, I did keep the duct tape in place and really didn't challenge anything he said. I did tell him I would have legal representation and I would be making an appt with my attorney. He took that fairly well.

So that's a recap of the latest visit.

The ride on the crazy train is a wild one, but at least I've reached the point that I can handle the twists and turns and keep my focus where it should be - on me and my best interests.

My best to everyone.
2T

[HaWho]

Oh wow. I read this and just thought for his sake I hope he can not make any decisions right now. He is ALL

[job]

He really is all over the place and his emotions are spinning. I agree, w/HaWho...I hope he doesn't make any major decisions while he's spinning like a top.

He really doesn't want to buy you out because he doesn't want to give you any money...it's all about him and maybe he's hoping that if he tells the staff about the situation, maybe you'll back down on wanting him to buy you out. He's lost control of the situation and now he's going to try to manipulate you and the staff by saying things that may or may not be true at this point. I think he was very disrespectful to speak to the staff or person w/o you being there. Now, you have to do damage control since he's gone again.

I honestly don't trust him at the moment because he's desperate to ensure that he doesn't have to buy you out or take out a loan. Whatever he decides to do, he better sit down w/you and discuss it and not just try to sell the company out from under you.

I hope that you can get the business settled up and leave him to himself to figure things out. Keep your eyes and ears open...(which I know you are doing).

[HaWho]

Oops, I accidentally hit the submit button, probably because I was practically on the floor laughing.

Anyway, he is ALL over the map (and the map has holes all over it). Everytime he opens his mouth he contradicts himself. He needs the D for closure and yet says it's not definite. Geez.

I always have a favorite comment of his. This time it's the "no cost buyout!" What a great idea! I pictured him explaining this to you as he goosed you with the BBQ tongs (it completed the picture). Don't worry 2T, I am sure your h will remember to pay you each month. His proiorities are in tip-top shape, after all.

All kidding aside it is scary he is on the brink of making such HUGE decisions when his judgment is still so impaired. It's actually sad as he has so much to lose.

As for how I do it? I have this radio station in my head and it's accessible on demand. It plays: All the Leaves Are Brown." When my h "talks" to me he might even see just a music note in each of my eyes.

Awesome job listening and zipping it.

[bttrfly]

oh my God Ha, I can just picture it ... H's voice as Charlie Brown's teacher with the Mamas and the Papas as the soundtrack!


2T ... God love ya girl, great job not jumping on the crazy train with hubby ... i'm beyond impressed that you didn't react, despite all the provocation.

xoxoxo

[2Times2Many]

Thanks, Job, HaWho and bttrfly. It is scary to think H is trying to make major decisions while he's in the state he's in. Very scary. I try to stay on top of things but it ain't easy when someone is spinning like H is.

Job, I don't think he could sell the company out from under me without jumping through a lot of hoops. He has no access to the financial software (doesn't know the passwords) and he'd have to provide a lot of that to a potential buyer. Our accountant has all that info, but he'd have to get on board with H's shenanigans and I don't think he'd jeopardize his license by doing something along those lines. Still, I keep my eyes open.

I also agree, Job, that telling our manager about the D was a ploy to make her as scared as he is and provoke her to talk me into staying on after a D. What H doesn't realize is she feels very capable of running things without me and she completely understands why I wouldn't stay. In her words, "I don't blame you." Attempts to rally her to "his side" won't work. She thinks he's treated me horribly.

HaWho, humor helps, doesn't it? My song has become the one by Colbie Cailatt - "Never Gonna Let You Down." I found that one running through my mind A LOT the past couple of weeks. It sure helped keep my centered.

While he was here, I put myself in "experiment" mode (ala Cali) and listened to all his suggestions and ideas about how to "solve" this mess and how "damaged" he would be if I did this or that. All I could think was, "Well, you did this. You made your bed and I've given you ample opportunity to get you act together and you've chosen not to." At one point, I did tell him that I was sorry we found ourselves in this place, but I didn't cause it. He agreed with me.

The saddest part to me is it's obvious that he knows he's messed up, knows he's made a mess of his life and feels a great deal of guilt, but he keeps looking for the easy answers to his problems through self-help books and groups, and by manipulating/lying to people. And he's still looking outward to place blame and is wallowing in victim-hood rather than looking inside and facing (and conquering) his demons. But I've turned all that over to the Man upstairs. I can't help H. Hopefully, some day he will find the courage to do the hard work and help himself.

I hope everyone has a great weekend. I'm about to settle in for some college football and "game snacking" indulgences.

xoxo
2T

[2Times2Many]

Wow. I can't believe how long it's been since I posted, but there really hasn't been much to update.

I've been enjoying college football and "my" team is doing well, which makes Saturdays even more enjoyable. I'm headed to my son's in a few weeks to attend a game in person with my son and grandson. That should be fun.

I started another series of facials. I was so pleased with the photo-facials I decided to go on to the next series.

I'm giving some thought to buying a keyboard to "relearn" the piano. I played a little many, many moons ago and would probably have to initially start from scratch, but I'm hoping it's like riding a bike and I can pick it up again fairly quickly. I haven't pulled the trigger, but I'm thinking that will be a Christmas present to myself.

On the MLC front, I saw my attorney after h left and he pretty much agreed that h was in La-La land as far as what he wanted in a D.

I did tell h I'd seen the attorney and h responded "we'll talk about all that when I get back." His usual reply to anything other than business or the weather. My fear is that he thinks the attorney came up with some magical way of everyone getting what they want. That would be part of the fantasy, I suppose.

I have done as I promised and given his various "options" a lot of thought, but they all end up with me agreeing to a buyout from the company at some later date after a D, whether I continue working or not. So essentially, I'd be turning over control of my financial future to my XH and I would have to go begging to him if some catastrophe (God forbid) came along that required a large amount of money. Uh, I don't think so and I really can't believe he thinks I would do that.

That leads me to wonder if he really thinks he can persuade me to do something that dumb or if he's just throwing out options he knows I would never accept for some other reason. Who knows.

Maybe I'll get some insight when he comes back next week. I'm a little more apprehensive than normal about that. He's been strange on the phone. Even our manager mentioned that he wasn't acting normal. He's been "too nice" and "happy." He's been strangely laid back even when we advise him of things that should be upsetting or get him fired up. Kind of odd. He even called me this weekend - from one of his social events - just to "say hi" and he hasn't called me outside the office in months. He did ask if it was okay to stay here, so maybe that was the purpose of the call.

I did ask my IC if that behavior could be the result of taking anti-depressants and she said what I was describing didn't sound like something AD would cause, but she couldn't be certain.

I feel like I'm venturing into the unknown. But I have the fridge stocked with STFU smoothies and a large supply of duct tape on hand. I'm also quite grounded. I know that whatever happens, I'll be just fine. But I will never agree to his D options and we all know that when a MLC doesn't get his way, things can take a nosedive quickly.

[job]

Glad you returned to post an update. It doesn't matter if you have something exciting going on...we just want to know that you are okay.

I think it's wonderful that you are thinking about getting a keyboard. I think you will enjoy practicing and playing again. A great stress reliever too!

Well, your h may think that if he drags things out, you'll stop pushing for a divorce and separation of the assets, which includes the business, so he'll continue to toss out things that he knows you'll not agree to, therefore, he'll tie things up for quite some time. Your h is desperate to keep the business the way it is because he doesn't want to have to get a large loan to pay you off. To him that is more responsibility and accountability as well as stress to ensure the company stays a float. He's quite comfortable w/the way the company is operating right now and the income coming and expenses of what goes out. He doesn't want that boat rocked by any means.

You'll know more about where his head is at when he returns soon. Keep your duct tape handy as well as the STFU smoothies because he will more than likely get a bit miffed that you aren't backing down on what you want out of the business deal.

[Esame]

You need to send me the recipe for batch-preparing those STFU smoothies 2T! You are doing so well sweetie, you should be proud of yourself. I think you are right to be worried about his behaviour. I'm glad your attorney agrees your H's behaviour is completely bonkers, and that his requests are indeed unrealistic.

Goo on you for not going for those post-D options that he suggested, I hope he doesn't have too big a tantrum for not getting his way..

Hugs and kisses xxx

[2Times2Many]

Thought I'd post an update (and jot a few things down that I don't want to forget).

Thanks for your posts, Job and Esame.

Surprisingly, I didn't need the STFU smoothies or the duct tape this time.

H was here a week and I must say it was the closest we've come to interacting with each other in a normal way in years. The stress/anxiety level was very low and I was pleasantly surprised.

I was able to confirm that he is taking an anti-depressant, so maybe that has something to do with his change in mood.

In the good old days, there were several dishes that H always cooked that I really enjoyed. He asked what meals he could make for me that I'd missed and he cooked two of them.

We had one relationship talk (which he brought up) a couple of days before he left. When talking about a D settlement, he was more reasonable. He floated a few ideas and I was just honest with him. I told him what I needed and why and pointed out he would do the same. I ended up saying I'd mull over his proposal and get back to him, but felt like we were making some progress. His reply .... there's no hurry; take your time. I was a little surprised as there seemed to be a great deal of urgency a few weeks ago.

In any case, I feel a little relieved that we were able to have a productive discussion and he wasn't so adamant about having everything his way. I don't feel like I'm about to go to war and that has taken a lot of stress off me. Hope it continues that way.

A few things I learned ...

He remarked at one point that he was tired of people telling him what he should do. I knew I hadn't done that so I asked, "Who's telling you what to do, if you don't mind my asking?" He said the OW was telling him he shouldn't be like his friend (whom I mentioned before .... still married, hasn't lived with his W in years, has a long-term GF and he and his W have no desire to D for money reasons.) I figured OW was what all the D urgency was about. Then he said his friend was telling him he was crazy to get a D. He didn't offer anything more and I didn't ask, so I have no idea where pushy OW stands at the moment. My gut says that has faded.

I just replied that it's okay to listen to what others suggest but to keep in mind they don't walk in your shoes and they can't possibly know everything that goes on in your mind. I told him that in the end, the only one who can know what's best for you is you. He agreed.

We had a few convos that were more personal in nature and we also talked about where we wanted to go in life (after D). I was very candid about what I needed to do and what path I intended to follow. Without actually saying it, I subtly let him know (again) that this wasn't the path I would have chosen for myself, but I plan to make the best of it.

I asked what he wanted to do with his life and he responded he had no idea.

Bottom line, it was like two good friends sharing stuff. It was kind of nice.

He got a little frisky and flirtatious a couple of times and planted a couple of kisses on me when I wasn't expecting it.

Just an over-all good visit. I actually enjoyed having him around. He's calmed down, but I suspect the AD has a lot to do with that.

There was a time that I would have found such a positive interaction a reason for hope, but I've walked that road before only to be disappointed. I'm no where near ready to let my guard down. He has a lot to prove to me before I'll do that. In the meantime, I just keep moving forward and making plans for how I want to live my life in the future.

One interesting thing that does have me curious, though. I checked his itinerary for the next visit home (I have his ok to check that account) and discovered he booked his flight to leave here a few days before Christmas. I half expected that, but it still stung.

Anyway, I sent him a text and said I was sorry to see he wasn't going to be here for Christmas and added "I have to admit I'm a bit disappointed" and that Christmas wouldn't be the same without him. I thought long and hard before sending that message and decided it is pretty much what I'd say to any family member or good friend under the circumstances and went ahead and sent it.

I got a somewhat cryptic reply about having to get a flight booked and it could be changed and he had been working on a plan. He said he planned to be here for Christmas and added, "trust me."

I replied back that it would be great to have him, but don't change his plans just for me and that I certainly didn't want to pressure him to be here.

When I talked to him the next morning, he brought it up and said he was working on something but wouldn't know for sure for a couple of days. And again said he would be here for Christmas.

Okay. We shall see.

I'm headed to my son's for a visit this weekend and will be going to a family reunion for Thanksgiving.

Still enjoying my football.

I've cut back time at the office a bit so I have a bit more leisure time and that's nice. I just have to avoid the mall. Not a good place for me to be during "leisure" time - especially when I have the urge to do so redecorating and Christmas is right around the corner.

I hope everyone is doing well.

2T

[Esame]

2T nice to hear from you.

I'm glad your H's last visit was better, I wish you can continue to build on the friendship. Strangely it is what I crave at the moment in my R with my H. I can see that we cannot go back to how things were, but I wish we could be better friends again.

I hope you will have a nice weekend with your son, and a great family reunion.

Take care xxx

[2Times2Many]

Thanks, Esame. I hope we can rebuild the friendship and I hope that you and your H will be able to do the same. It is one of the hardest things, I think ... missing that "person" you were always able to talk to and turn to when waters got choppy. It's tough.

The Christmas mystery has been solved. He wants the two of us to go away on a short trip for a few days over Christmas. I agreed to go and now we're trying to figure out where.

So, in the span of 2 months he's gone from insisting on D to wanting to take a trip together. I'm confused.

[HaWho]

Let's hope he's not planning on taking you to his home planet.

It will be interesting to see whether he prefers a place familiar to you both, or a new place.

Nice to hear from you. Sounds like you are doing well, keeping busy and all that jazz.

[kml]

Let's hope he's not planning on taking you to his home planet.

ROFLMAO!!!!

[2Times2Many]

Well, HaWho and kml, if he is planning to take me to his home planet, that would be a very interesting trip!

He has thrown out a couple of options (places we haven't been to before), which I checked out and agreed to. They both look like fun.

The whole thing is a little disconcerting because I have no idea what's going on his head and what he's trying to accomplish. A test to see if we still travel well together? A test to see if what he thinks he's feeling is the real deal? Time to persuade me to come around to his thinking re a D settlement? I have no idea. I feel like I'm on stage and don't quite know how I'm expected to perform. But, I'm just plain curious, so I'll take center stage and see what happens.

He talked about a trip we took where we sort of fell in love and I suspect he's trying to see if the "magic" will happen again. That's discouraging because there is too much water under the bridge for that to happen and I'm not "head over heels" anymore. I don't think he'll find the "magic" which is what he's looking for. He's looking for a spark and I just don't know if there is a spark in me ... too much skepticism about his motives.

But, hey, it's a cool trip and I will enjoy

I wanted to post a few things that were said while he was here. It may or may not help others dealing with a MLC spouse.

He said he knew he had screwed up. I validated (maybe I shouldn't have) and said I thought he had made some poor choices. I asked him why, once he realized that, he didn't try to walk it back or fix it. He said he knew when he made the decision to go forward and turn his EA to a PA, that he knew our R was over.

Basically, he was saying, that in his mind, he was closing the door on our R and it was over. My impression is that he now regrets what he did, but he blew it all up and now there's no turning back.

He went on to say that he knew he'd "do it again."

I find it sad that he thinks that way. It tells me he doesn't trust himself. But, on the other hand, it tells me that he doesn't want to hurt me again, so at least I know he does think about me ... that protection instinct is still there. I don't know if that helps anyone or not, but it's how my MLCer thinks.

Regarding living his life the way his friend suggests - stay M for finances but live separate lives - he said he didn't want to do that and implied that it wasn't the right way to do things. He said didn't want to be that kind of person.

I've made it very clear that my morals and my vows are still important to me and I've shown that by living my life (through this h3ll) in a way that shows that. I told him a while back that a lot of people would think I'd be justified in getting involved with someone else but I "couldn't do that." I could be way off base, but I think holding myself to a higher standard than he's succumbed to has resonated. My impression is that he admires that. I could be way off-base, but I feel like I can set an example that he can follow ... the lighthouse.

He told me that when he has a first date with a potential OW he always screws it up by telling her how great our R was. I asked him why he did that and why didn't he just keep that to himself. He said he wanted to be honest. Huh??

My take is that he sabotages the R before it even begins and if the OW is so dumb she can't see through it, she will get what she deserves ... the boot cuz she will start applying pressure. So I'd say to those who are dealing with an OW/OM, follow the advice here. Let OW/OM start applying the pressure. You can be the "safe haven" of sanity, patience and understanding.

I don't know if any of that applies to anyone else. All I can say is to stay strong. Be true yourself.

Like everyone here, I would love to save my M, but at some point you have to take of yourself and your kids (if any).

Best to all.

2T

[AJM]

Hmmm... Seems like a touch to see if you're still there?
2, if you've learned anything, it's to take things one day at a time, right?

Trust doesn't come quickly, but it seems he's at least trying to put things together in a way to gain some trust.

I know from talking to some friends who have gone through this on the other side that 'feelings' wax and wane. I have a friend who is going through this now. He's the one that instigated. Most of the time he wants to make things 'work' but at others, he 'feels' like he'll be fine if it doesn't. He describes his time with OW as 'hell on earth' and describes the ways he created a story to make it work and justify it in his mind.

I think that's part of it. Your H is not happy and is taking steps to get right.

Take each day as it comes and see what happens. Open book to be written. But don't expect. Just enjoy in the moment. His feelings will likely move around a bit.

I like your approach to have your life. I'm just suggesting that you make room. Or rather, leave the door open and see what happens.

Peace,
AJ

[bttrfly]

well, send us a postcard from Planet MLC!
Seriously tho' you are handling things very well. I like that you're protected, yet open to see what will be revealed. You've found your center and you're firmly there. THat's so wonderful! I agree with AJ's about leaving the door open and seeing what happens. xoxoxo

[BrightFuture]

Hey 2T, there is lot of things you posted resonate with me… Your H kind of “closing” the door, because he thinks that there is too much damage… and thinking about you and how he would not want to hurt you again… and not trusting himself… I can see my H in all of these… And, ironically, the life that his friends promote, when not being officially divorced, but living it like single people, free to be in any R with any OW… It think that my H thinks that is not right, but he it is probably way too comfortable for him right now, or/and he is too chicken to do anything…

Back to your H… I don’t think he closed the door on your H. He would not be inviting you to the trip if he’s done that. I agree with you that he might not get what he is looking for, if that is that infamous spark, LOL. But, at least he is trying… You just never know what comes out of it. I’m glad that you agreed to this trip. I have all the confidence in you, that you will have no expectations and will be able to handle everything just fine. Treat it like an adventure, like an experiment, if you will… Be yourself and enjoy yourself!

I got a chuckle about him sharing the info with you on his first dates with OWs, LOL. These MLCer have no clue… really… You are right, he sabotages his R with potential OWs before they can even start. I tells me that he still has a very tight connection to you. I’m sure his “gut” tells him that you are the best that he can find ever… But… he is in MLC… and tells it all…

2T, can’t wait for your adventure story! Hugs…

[bttrfly]

2Times ... been a month. Where are you, girl? Miss you and a bit concerned that you are ok????

xoxoxoxoxo

[2Times2Many]

I know I've been MIA for quite a while but I'm still alive and breathing.

My sister's health took a sudden turn for the worst and BIL and I had to make the decision to turn off the machines a couple of weeks before Christmas. It was the most difficult decision I have ever had to make. She was my only sibling and I miss her terribly. She was only 60.

She wanted to be cremated, so we did that and postponed her service until after the holidays. It was so bizarre at the cemetery. I was standing there looking at my mom and dad's graves, as well as my grandparent's, and the only thought that kept going through my mind was, "They're all gone. I'm the only one left." I was a mess for a long time.

H wasn't here at the time, but did offer to fly back. He was due to come back a few days later anyway, so I told him to stick to his schedule.

We took the Christmas trip anyway as it was prepaid and non-refundable. He did a good job of distracting me and it turned out okay under the circumstances. I enjoyed it and it was a good distraction.

H left after the holidays and was back a few weeks later. He was very good to me. I saw glimpses of the compassion and empathy I had seen in him in the past so I was grateful that he was able to pull it together long enough to "take care of me" and give me a chance to work through my grief without all this other stuff hanging over my head. Unfortunately, that was temporary.

Since then I've been slowly pulling my life back together. I bought a new car and have booked two cruises ... one in late summer and another next spring. (Had to space them out so I could pay for them. LOL)

My two oldest granddaughters were here a couple of weekends ago and we had a great time shopping, visiting the nail salon, eating out and watching movies until the wee hours.

I've been working on a rather big project ... scanning all our photos into the computer. I had a digital photo frame that got damaged. It was mostly images of the grandkids. I decided I wanted to put some photos on it of places I've been, my kids in their younger years, etc, so I purchased an inexpensive scanner and went to work. It actually turned out to be very therapeutic. So glad I did it!

I stopped seeing my IC. She was very good in helping weather the crisis storm, but she began to push too hard for me to "do" something. Get a D, sell the house, move to another state. That may very well be my future, but I'm not there yet and I'm not the kind to make hasty decisions and I want to take my time to figure out the right path for me. I haven't figured that out yet ... not completely. She just seemed to want to rush that and I felt it was time to part ways.

As for H ... as I said, he was very good for two trips after Sis died. I actually thought that maybe somehow my sister's death would bring us closer ... maybe something good would come from that loss. But, I was wrong.

The next trip home (a couple of weeks ago), he was back to distant H ... to the point I felt like he was deliberately ignoring me. I've quite obviously changed my hairstyle and he didn't mention it. I figure even if he didn't like it, he could at least say, "You've changed you hair." At least acknowledge it. I've seen that H before and that H is usually involved with an OW.

He had asked that I make him a copy of all the photos I was scanning. I did and included a bunch of his family as well as pics he'd sent me of trips he'd taken (without me) since he moved overseas. I was quite proud of my organization and the images he wouldn't expect to see.

So I put his flash drive in a box, wrapped it and included a note that I hoped he enjoyed the digital album as much as I enjoyed creating it. He didn't look at it!

We took a trip to a casino in the next state (about a three hour drive) and I made sure I was attractively dressed. I noticed him looking me up and down a couple of times but did a compliment come out? No.

But I had vowed before he came back that I would be as nice to him as I was to the checkout girl at the grocery store and I stuck to it. I suppose my thinking was that he put forth effort to be kind to me and I should return the gesture.

I was bubbly and happy ... cracking jokes while driving, gambling, etc., listening to the music on the radio that he now "likes" and biting my tongue ... a lot. I was very, very nice, which was difficult because he was behaving like an a$$.

He did seem to melt a little and told me a couple of times that he really enjoyed the weekend.

Then once he left ... well, I would say he's gone dark or at least very dim. Don't know what is going on, but it's a 180 from the previous couple of months.

I strongly suspect OW3. He told me he was getting Hep A and Hep B vaccinations because it's "so prevalent over there." Uh, okay. You've been there for 3 years and now this is a priority?

He also received a package here at the house from Tiffany's. I told him that if he was expecting a package, it had arrived but didn't let on I knew where it came from. His reply? "Package? Hmmm...think I was waiting for something before I left that didn't arrive before I left. No big deal." Is this the "I want to get caught" scenario? Regardless, if it's not for me, it's a cruel thing to do to have it shipped here.

Anyway, I'm doing well and moving forward. Looking forward to a good year. There are some bucket list items I'm looking into.

If there's one thing I've learned from my sister's death it's that life goes on and to live it to the fullest while you can.

Hope everyone has a wonderful Easter.

2T

[Kyh]

Hi 2T, I'm so sorry to hear about your sister.

It sounds like you're doing well, especially considering everything. I thinks it's good that you are taking your time figuring out what you want instead of taking the IC's advise. No reason to rush big decisions. Keep taking care of yourself!

[job]

I am so very sorry to read about your sister. It's always difficult to make decisions about someone's life. She struggled for quite a while and now she's at peace w/o the pain and suffering.

You sound well and grounded. Take your time figuring things out. Don't rush into doing anything when you are angry. The most important thing is to take care of yourself.

[25yearsmlc]

2T

I am so very sorry to hear of your sister's passing. I hope you (and BIL) find comfort in your faith or whatever support system you have.

The image of the cemetery really resonates, though my mom's ashes have still not been put somewhere (b/c there are 9 children who must agree.) But the "orphans" scenario even at our age, hurts and is surreal.

And yes, life is short. So very short...we need to figure a way to live it well.

Sorry your h is not there for you. He is inconsistent and shows up at times, but at some point you'll have to ask yourself if that is enough

and when you decide it is/isn't, you'll decide to DO something.

If I had lost one of my 3 sisters (let alone my only sibling), it would be hard to act or DO for awhile.

I'd call that grief. Hope you find another T. It's a lot to cope with.

I ache for you

[bttrfly]

{{{{{{{2T}}}}}}}
I am so sorry about your sister. I hope you and BIL are comforted by your many memories and the knowledge that she is no longer in pain.

Sometimes the best and only thing we can do for someone else is to allow them to move forward on their journey, regardless of what that journey may be.

I think you are right to nurture yourself at this time. You have a lot to process.

thank you for the update ... we are here for you xoxoxo

[2Times2Many]

Thank you kyh, Job, 25 and bttrfly for your good wishes.

25, I find it interesting that your used the word "orphans" in your reply. I expressed to H after the service that I felt like an orphan. Can you believe he laughed as though I was joking?

Job, I no longer get angry. Those feelings are no longer there. I actually feel pity toward H. I've accepted that he is who he is and the only one who can change him is him. What he does in his life (on a personal level) no longer affects me unless I allow it to. I admit, there are times that it does get under my skin, but I no longer feel anger, just pity.

He's done so much damage to his life, so much damage to the people who love him and care about him and it's pretty obvious to me that he has a lot of regrets but is too cowardly to step up and make the changes he needs to make. (Ironically, I told him when I found out about his PA 3 1/2 years ago that unless he got help, all the people in his life who cared for and loved him would have nothing but bad memories of him in the end.) Instead, he deludes himself into thinking/feeling that the superficial relationships and friendships he's developed over there are bringing him happiness. He had the admiration and respect of many people in his life and now he seeks the admiration and respect of others to replace what he's lost.

Over there, no one knows who he really is. All they see are the masks he wears. He brags about how many "friends" he has, his active social life, etc. But judging from how often the names of his friends change, I would venture to guess they eventually see behind his illusion and move on.

Over here, he's ostracized nearly everyone who once cared about him. My two kids liked and respected him. My grandkids adored him and still ask about him. He hasn't seen or communicated with any of them in nearly 4 years. The only exception is my son, who has asked to speak to him on the phone a couple of times when he happened to call while H was here. My son is a good kid.

Just before BD, his Dad was telling him how proud he was of H and what he'd built (the company). He hasn't seen his parents in 9 months even though they live just a few miles from here and his Mom is in poor health.

He had it all ... a successful business (which is slowly fading) and family and friends who loved and respected him. Then he blew it all to smithereens. I suppose that is the one thing I'll never understand. Who does that?

As for me, prior to Part 1, I was totally devoted to H. I suppose I did a good job for most of those years of feeding him the admiration he needed. At some point, that apparently wasn't enough and he got involved in a EA with another woman. That totally devastated me as I never saw it coming. He fell off his pedestal big time and I've never been able to put him back back up there. I suppose if after that initial betrayal he had met me half way and really put some effort into rebuilding, I might have been able to see him through those devoted eyes again and put him back on that pedestal, but he didn't. After all that has taken place in the past 4 years, I seriously doubt that would ever happen.

Sadly, I think he realizes that. He often expresses regret about what we "used to have" and that he'll never find that kind of love again. It's as though he's decided that his transgressions were of such a magnitude that they can never be atoned for so accept the consequences and move on. It isn't me who is unwilling to try ... it's him.

So, instead, he has filled his life with people who will admire him and seek out his company, I suppose to prove to himself that in spite of all he's done, he's still a worthy individual whom others value. But they only see his mask.

So, in his mind, he can't go home. There is no one left who will see him the way they used to. The idea that he could make amends either doesn't occur to him, is too difficult or too humiliating.

So that's how I see things and it's why I just don't get angry anymore. I feel so sorry for him. I do love him and part of me always will, but until or unless he decides to stop running from himself, there's nothing for me to do except let him be and live my own life.

And I don't feel like what I'm doing now is "doing nothing." I continue to do what I do ... stay married and involved in the company ... because it's in my long term financial interest to do so. So in my eyes, I am doing something. I'm navigating the stormy waters now to insure smooth sailing ahead. My IC just didn't get that concept.

[HaWho]

2T - I am sorry about your sister. I hope you are able to find support and comfort as you heal.

I think of you often and am glad you came to post an update.