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We didn't get a chance to talk, we have some other family stuff going on and also I wanted to really think about the best way to approach it. She has slept on the couch the last couple of nights, which seems to be her neutral ground. I thought she would move back into her "separated bedroom".
I have been writing notes which I might just let her read when I'm done, but I definitely want to have a sit down in person.

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Ok here is what I have so far. I need some input on how to soften this, since she is right on the edge.
If you want to change in your life in a positive direction, you need make positive changes in yourself first. Making changes in how you think and handle situations can be uncomfortable, but are needed to make progress. Being comfortable means doing the same things and thinking the same way that you are used to. But doing what you are used to hasn't worked so far has it?...So do things differently!
This goes for our relationship too. If we want a better relationship we need to do things differently than we did before. That starts with our individual progress, but also includes how we approach the relationship. I have realized that my expectations were more about the relationship that I want and not the one we are in. So I had to adjust my thinking over the past few days. When I mentioned being open to let you look at accounts and my phone to gain trust, you said you didn't want a relationship like that. I agree with you, but that is if we were in our goal relationship. We need to recognise that we still need work and need to make changes to get to that healthy goal relationship. Some changes will be temporary and some will need to be ongoing to maintain it. But we can't expect it to work by doing everything the same. Both of us have to make adjustments.
The best way to make sure it doesn't go back to the way it was is making a plan and keep checking back with our plan to make sure we're on track. Maybe even going to marriage counseling as long as the counseler is good and we make our goals clear. The main thing is we would need to go into this with an open mind.

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ImAwake Offline OP
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Any thoughts on the post above? I really would like some input or advice on this talk I have laid out.

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If she is wayward, she will place male friendships over her own H and M. The fact that she does not want a relationship where both of you can be transparent and not have secrets........is very telling, IMHO.

I can just tell you how a wayward wife would probably react to what you said in the previous post. If she is unwilling to cooperate and do what is needed to save the M, you won't be able to talk her into doing the things you stated above. You are still wanting to use words to fix things, and although I believe I understand what you are saying to her.......I just doubt she will heed to what you tell her.

As long as she wants to have private communication with the opposite sex and keep secrets from her H........I think your chances of success are unlikely. As long as she can say that's not what she wants.......and continues with the old behavior.......she isn't faced (or concerned) with the consequences of what doesn't work in a good MR.

Have you considered calling the Divorce Busting coaches?


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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I am prepared to fully detach (as much as possible) as before. I will give the talk a shot when I get a chance, but won't expect much.
Right now I can't afford the coaching sessions. But part of my GAL is getting a better paying job, hopefully soon!

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Originally Posted By: ImAwake
We had a quick talk during lunch which didn't go very well. She feels like I am trying to control her by telling her she shouldn't be in contact with her male friends. She says she doesn't see anything wrong with it since it's innocent. I stayed firm and told her that changes need to be made to make progress in our R and this was one of them. Still she said "I don't know what to tell you, we are going to have to agree to disagree. I'm not going to change who I am as a good friend" Ha! Ain't that some crap. I told her that means she is not committed to making the R better. She replied that I am making her sound bad. I validated a bit and said I see that being viewed as "good" is important to you. I don't think you are bad I'm just stating facts about how you handle our relationship.
We are going to talk more later. We will see how that goes.


My ex said that a few times when I laid down the boundary of no contact. She did try for a couple weeks, when she tried to stop her addiction to OM. She was miserable, and I wasn't a very good consolation prize... angry and upset husband.

She eventually restated I could no longer tell her who to be friends with, she was in control, and that was that. The reconciliation blew up.

For me the EA had to go PA. My ex has too many skeletons in the closet that need propping up. I didn't do a very good job for her. I in turned restarted the D. She hasn't looked back.

Sandi, I think you're putting a nice spin on 'chances of success are unlikely'. I put the odds at winning the Megabucks. ImAwake, your spouse will need to realize what makes a healthy healthy relationship tick. And want to learn those healthy things. Until then, talking will be for exercising your mouth muscles - and exhaling. Putting the focus on you isn't selfish - it's your only move.


M46, EXWW46
M15 T17
D20, S19, D13
M - Addiction since 1998
W EA/PA #1 2013/2014
W EA #2 June 2015...
BD 1 Big D talk 9/15
BD 2 - EA/PA disc 10/30/15
Served D 1/22/16
Divorced 5/25/16 (yes, that fast!)
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Thanks for your example trumpet. It really helps to hear other stories that have similarities.
I understand that the odds are against reconciliation, no need to sugercoat it. I'm not saying I won't do everything I can to work it out. My hope is there, but I have a much better hold on reality than I did just months ago. My reality is: I'll live
Btw, this is me talking on a good day. Haha smile

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I told W that we should set some time to talk. She said with a bad attitude, what do you want to talk about exactly? I hope it's not to continue our last talk, because I am not going to agree with you. I asked if she was trying to avoid the subject altogether, she said there's nothing else to say about it. She added that she is committed, so I said maybe we need to talk about what she means by that. Our S6 was within earshot and she was already in b mode, so I stopped her from continuing and said another time would probably be better.
On a more positive note: I drank a glass of wine and went to bed listening to some good music. Some sad R type songs came on, but I didnt shed any tears. I smiled a healthy smile and took deep breaths, I got chills...happiness and acceptance of my situation. It's a strange thing to be sad, but happy that I now recognize when I'm sad and accept it. Really live through the sadness like I have never been able to do in the past.

As a side note: music has always been a big part of my life, listening and creating it. This is one of those things I put on hold for years now to spend "more time" with an unhappy W. Any time I would get into a project I was excited about she would tell me that I needed to spend more time with her. The time I spent with her was never enough and so my desperately needed personal time was "taken" and resentment built from there. I didn't even listen to music anymore! She didn't really have hobbies of her own, so she was totally dependent on my time to keep her happy and entertained. Very unhealthy now that I look back on it. But now I'm past that and I'm so happy to be getting back into music as one of my GAL activities!

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We had a couple of talks which went as well as expected, but at least we made points we wanted to make. Detachment will continue and increase now. W has shown she is not really interested in working on anything. This was a just big temp check.

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Friday night she says she would like to sleep in our bed and be close, but not have sex as that is moving too fast. I said ok, but she changed her mind by bed time, so I said ok haha. Saturday night she plops her pillow into our bed and climbs in. Hmm, ok. We watch a movie together until I was too tired and fell asleep. Hmm nice, ok. Since we've been going through other things including guests staying at the house for a few days, I've been helping out cleaning and taking care of the kids. I had just washed dishes Saturday night which she thanked me for. Lastnight she threw a tantrum over dishes and house work not being done. She stormed out of the house and stayed out for a short time. She could have asked for help, but she decided to make it into a bigger issue. She also chose to forget how much I've been helping out lately. I actually took out the trash and started to clean up...then I stopped when I realized I was rewarding this behavior. I decided to let her figure it out. I got dinner for the kids and when I got home she was already back. She said thanks for helping me make my decision. Omg haha, I had to laugh mentally, although I could have laughed out loud since she usually pokes her head in and storms off for comments like that. I came over thinking I could talk to her, but she said "dont, I know what you are doing. You're trying to play with my mind". I told her I'm not the one throwing tantrums. So needless to say I slept by myself again, which has become a lot more comfortable than it used to be.

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