I told you I'd comment back on the detachment thing, and how I think people on these forums have the process all wrong, but I'm about to head to IC right now and I'll post when I get back. There are a few people that understand it on here, and unfortunately, I think it's one of those things that is almost unexplainable in nature, like, you won't know it, until you've reach it, and until you reach it, there is no defined path on how to get there...
Sotto makes the good point up there, and it really isn't about "detaching from someone"... it's about "re-attaching to yourself, that's a great way to put it, so thanks to Sotto for pointing that out, and thanks to Vanilla as well, a much simpler version of what I was conjuring up. But I've done a lot of reading and writing on the topic, so I'll post my own thoughts when I get back from IC.
betterm, I will be interested in your thoughts on detachment as I agree with you that many seem to misunderstand it and that maybe why it is such a struggle. I too have been reading and researching it for better understanding as well as I believe that it applies in more than just our MR. For both better and worse. It wold be fun and enlightening to bounce our research and understanding back and forth and maybe even help many others with it's appropriate application.
Me 46 Former W 46 D19 D7 BD Feb 2016 WAW moves out 4/16/16 D final 6/1/2017
It's time for me to start changin' the way I look at the world......and at myself. ~James Howlett aka Wolverine
I think codependency is a really important feature too. The more codependent we are, the harder it becomes to achieve more detachment and independence. And we can cling to a toxic situation like a clam to a rock. It is good to reach a point of realisation and do what it's best for oneself - not try to save the M at all costs - but release the outcome and reclaim yourself.
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
I told you I'd comment back on the detachment thing, and how I think people on these forums have the process all wrong, but I'm about to head to IC right now and I'll post when I get back. There are a few people that understand it on here, and unfortunately, I think it's one of those things that is almost unexplainable in nature, like, you won't know it, until you've reach it, and until you reach it, there is no defined path on how to get there...
Sotto makes the good point up there, and it really isn't about "detaching from someone"... it's about "re-attaching to yourself, that's a great way to put it, so thanks to Sotto for pointing that out, and thanks to Vanilla as well, a much simpler version of what I was conjuring up. But I've done a lot of reading and writing on the topic, so I'll post my own thoughts when I get back from IC.
betterm, I will be interested in your thoughts on detachment as I agree with you that many seem to misunderstand it and that maybe why it is such a struggle. I too have been reading and researching it for better understanding as well as I believe that it applies in more than just our MR. For both better and worse. It wold be fun and enlightening to bounce our research and understanding back and forth and maybe even help many others with it's appropriate application.
For a while I confused detachment with a lack of engagement. I pretty much stopped talking to H unless it was in response to a direct question, and then I kept my response short.
That was very bad in my situation (H who was emotionally numb to me and was considering leaving the M).
What worked better was staying engaged in our relationship but learning to not let H or my mind reading of his feelings and thoughts to dictate my mood. Not that I'm 100% successful, but that's the new goal.
Detachment in this sense is important for any healthy relationship. It's not just something you do when your marriage is in trouble.
Just my two cents. I'm looking forward to seeing what betterm says.
Me: 44 H: 44 Kids: 20, 16, 16, and 10 Together/Married: 22 years H announced he was emotionally detached and considering D: 4/4/16 H announced he is going to try to stay and reconnect: 5/1/16
Detachment and how to communicate is really tricky for the LBS. How do you detach and engage? The definitions of the words are diametrically opposed. Add to this a really messy history of communications, an angry (if not wayward) spouse, upset kids etc and is there any wonder that we have such trouble making progress? You then get DB coach advice to be there, stay positive etc. It all seems like a swirling circle of misdirection at times.
I can see why DB starts with detaching. However, if honest I think most struggle with this as the instinct behind this entire forum is to re-attach/engage.
M46/W40/D8/S6/T20/M12/Separated 6/2016,W takes kids Issues2009 Wpartying w/g.f's2013on EA2013PAdeniedWleavesMBR ImeetAP/EAhalts VariousBDDates MFCourse WSpew EAresumes I halt Wrages DBIng4/2016
I'm typing off the cuff here, so I don't know how well this will stand up to scrutiny--and I certainly haven't been precise in my use of these terms in the past--but I think engagement is about action and detachment is about emotion.
Chatting with my husband about our day is an act of engagement. Not getting sad or stressed about not knowing if he is feeling emotionally connected to me is detachment.
Of course there are actions we take to help us detach--we meditate, pray, distract ourselves by GAL, etc.
It is tricky, absolutely. And different situations have different optimal levels of engagement. A spouse who has asked for space is different from a spouse who feels disconnected due to years of neglect.
I'd love to hear other people's thoughts.
Me: 44 H: 44 Kids: 20, 16, 16, and 10 Together/Married: 22 years H announced he was emotionally detached and considering D: 4/4/16 H announced he is going to try to stay and reconnect: 5/1/16
I think you can engage with someone in a detached way. It is less about the physical interaction and more about your emotional investment (or detachment) in that process.
So, you could have a difficult convo with your WAS, but remain calm and go happily about your day afterwards. I think it helps to adopt a third party 'hmm, that's interesting' perspective on such interactions, which builds in a little emotional distance for you. That doesn't mean we act distant or we don't engage, it's more an internal shift.
JMHO of course and hope it's useful
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
I'm typing off the cuff here, so I don't know how well this will stand up to scrutiny--and I certainly haven't been precise in my use of these terms in the past--but I think engagement is about action and detachment is about emotion.
Chatting with my husband about our day is an act of engagement. Not getting sad or stressed about not knowing if he is feeling emotionally connected to me is detachment.
Of course there are actions we take to help us detach--we meditate, pray, distract ourselves by GAL, etc.
It is tricky, absolutely. And different situations have different optimal levels of engagement. A spouse who has asked for space is different from a spouse who feels disconnected due to years of neglect.
I'd love to hear other people's thoughts.
Hmmm.... rose you share some good insight that I have had in my notes as I research detachment. It aligns with some of it, but with a few additional elements that I will analyze and put through a litmus test. Thank you for sharing as this is a topic of great need for better understanding for so many of us.
Me 46 Former W 46 D19 D7 BD Feb 2016 WAW moves out 4/16/16 D final 6/1/2017
It's time for me to start changin' the way I look at the world......and at myself. ~James Howlett aka Wolverine
Any thoughts on how to answer this question. My WW feels that she has said everything (to point toward her unhappiness over a period of years) and I ignored it. I gather this is pretty typical.
The question is "Why did you just leave me there....not address things before?"
When she asks, I just clam up. I don't have a single good answer. I have explained that was she was mainly shouting or completely distressed when she tried to talk and I couldn't hear her....as I would be in panic mode. I have learned to hear her in any state (distressed, shouting etc), so now I am better equipped but I can't seem to answer her question in a way that stops it coming back. She tends to keep going over the same things, this is one of many, why do you always, you never etc points. It is distressing. I appreciate that I am still struggling with detaching...but should I even try to answer such a question?
I would appreciate any thoughts/help.
M46/W40/D8/S6/T20/M12/Separated 6/2016,W takes kids Issues2009 Wpartying w/g.f's2013on EA2013PAdeniedWleavesMBR ImeetAP/EAhalts VariousBDDates MFCourse WSpew EAresumes I halt Wrages DBIng4/2016
The question is "Why did you just leave me there....not address things before?"
Surfer,
I think that statement is typical of a WW. It may be true, you may not have addressed things before, but now she's using that as yet another reason to paint you as the bad guy. It's like Sandi has said before, she (Sandi) doesn't know of any woman who's ever divorced her husband because he didn't clean the house (paraphrased).
