Newby here, desperate for some advice (thread 2)

[JRuss]

ForGump -- yes, unfortunately, the kids have picked up on it. When we used to fight overtly, they would get scared and cry and tell us please don't divorce. We've largely muzzled that crappy parenting example, though, but I can still tell they know we're not in a happy place. They're old enough to remember when we were. Both of my kids have told me in their own ways that they think they're mother is negative and that they know to steer clear when she's in one of her "moods". Just reinforces my resolve not to lay down and let her screw me (and the kids) over by getting more than 50% custody.

darknes -- I know I shouldn't listen to anything she says. Getting to the point where I can do that is the rub and why I find myself going to IC, coming here, and on and on, though. It is hard as hell.

[ForGump]

When we used to fight overtly, they would get scared and cry and tell us please don't divorce.

Heartbreaking.

How did they link arguing to divorce? Was the word "divorce" uttered by you and/or your wife during the fights?

[JRuss]

For Gump -- no, we didn't talk about it in front of them in terms of a D. They know enough kids at school who've gone through it, though, that they know to be fearful of it. It is indeed heartbreaking.

[JRuss]

Interesting wrinkle to report. Not sure what it means, if anything. I talked my parents into driving down from where they live to take my kids camping. They're going to take them about an hour from where we live and will have them for 4 days, 3 nights. I had assumed that they'd come here and stay overnight as part of that, pick up the kids and go to the campground, but my mother texted me and asked if I could bring the kids there Sunday and pick them up Wednesday night.

The Wednesday pickup isn't particularly appealing given my work schedule (two hours of driving after work), but I'm fine doing it. My dad had to have his hip replaced last year and hasn't been able to travel much, and I've been concerned that my kids aren't seeing their grandparents enough, so I am happy to do it to facilitate some quality time for the four of them.

Anyway, I mentioned the need to drive the kids to my W, and she immediately said "It's because of me. They don't want to see me". She then proceeded to get pretty upset, saying things like "I don't want them to hate me. I don't want to be a pariah for 20 years". I'm thinking to myself, "Well, then don't break their son's bleeping heart" and also not really making sense of the 20 years part. Does she think she's going to have a relationship with my parents in 20 years, 18 years or so after she divorces me? Or is she just getting actuarial -- they're almost 70?

So my mind was flopping around a lot, so I didn't really validate much. Just listened, didn't say a lot, but then said that I think it was mainly just an attempt by my parents to avoid an extra 4 hours of driving (they're already driving 8 hours each way).

So she's definitely still in the "we're divorcing" mindset, I think, but instances like this really make me think she hasn't thought a lot of this through. How could she think my parents are going to stay buddy buddy with a woman who'd throw their son and children under the bus without even trying MC for a nanosecond? She's always been very together and practical and calm, and I just get the sense that she's put the cart (D talk) before the horse (thinking through what a D will be like).

This is I think a pretty good opportunity to show her what it would be like (and she'd hopefully not like it), but I again struggle with how to do that when we live together and are trying to keep the kids from knowing anything's amiss yet.

GAL and 180s seem to be doable and workable, but the going dark actions don't seem possible in light our living arrangement. Next week, when the kids are with my folks, and we're in the house alone together, will be interesting. That's an opportunity for me to make some headway, I think, by not being accessible and reliably "there". Any practical advice?

[ForGump]

So my mind was flopping around a lot, so I didn't really validate much. ... I just get the sense that she's put the cart (D talk) before the horse (thinking through what a D will be like).

Yeah, would've been good if you said something like, "Yeah, it would be good if you and they maintained good relations," with the subtext being that that relationship is important to her, and the best way to do that is for her to be careful about this D she's throwing herself into...

I have the exact same problem w/ my W about putting the cart before the horse! But it fits in w/ the way my W's mind works. She's impulsive and generally does not and cannot fully imagine the ramifications of her actions until she's plunged herself into the situation. But I thought your wife is a lawyer? I would've guessed that lawyers' brains are very good at working out hypothetical situations and their ramifications?

Next week, when the kids are with my folks, and we're in the house alone together, will be interesting. That's an opportunity for me to make some headway, I think, by not being accessible and reliably "there". Any practical advice?

It could also be a tough week, if things don't go your way. Be careful pumping yourself up with hope. I hope you can keep yourself busy. Maybe set up some social things w/ friends? Go see a movie, go to a pub, etc.?

[lt0402]

Next week, when the kids are with my folks, and we're in the house alone together, will be interesting. That's an opportunity for me to make some headway, I think, by not being accessible and reliably "there". Any practical advice?

It could also be a tough week, if things don't go your way. Be careful pumping yourself up with hope. I hope you can keep yourself busy. Maybe set up some social things w/ friends? Go see a movie, go to a pub, etc.? [/quote]

100% agree with this. Get out of the house and away from the situation. I'd plan out the whole week now and not do it last minute.

Also, don't let her change any of your plans. If she wants to hang out or talk don't hesitate to say you'd like to, but you can't because you have something planned. You can always suggest another time to chat w/ her, but make her work around your schedule.

[JRuss]

For Gump -- thanks for the thoughtful reply. Yeah, one thing I struggle with is the fact that she is a lawyer, is a planner, generally follows through on what she plans or plots out; so I get down thinking that this is all already done and dusted, and she's just executing this long, slow exit, and that she'll never stop and reconsider until our family is smashed up.

Then I see this other, more frantic, less together side, and, like I said, it was interesting.

Re next week, be assured I have no expectations of any sort of breakthrough or progress with W. More I was thinking, if I can keep my DB-ing hat on, that it will give me a chance I don't usually have to detach and not be right there, same as I always am, because I'm there trying to be a Dad all the time.

All I've really come up with is some GALing. Personal trainer/workout Tuesday. Need something good Monday. W actually mentioned getting something to eat out, just the two of us, Sunday PM when I get back from dropping the kids off with grandparents. We'll see, I guess.

I hope you have a great weekend -- get out and do something just for you!

[JRuss]

Thanks lt0402 -- maybe its progress on my part, but I'm following you exactly and think that's exactly how I want to play it. If I'm there and available, I'll immediately go into following/puppy mode, hoping, clingy -- yuck. I don't like that guy!

[ForGump]

W actually mentioned getting something to eat out, just the two of us, Sunday PM when I get back from dropping the kids off with grandparents.

Holy sh't. That's one hell of a bone to throw at you. Doesn't that just f*ck with your head?

[JRuss]

It sure does, For-Gump. Cake eating? I can't even keep all of the terms straight. Need to keep studying. I figure I'll go, but in a (hopefully) detached, no expectations, friend getting something to eat with a friend. And not an anxiety-pocked skid mark, desperately hoping for a sign she loves me. I'm sort of relishing the challenge, which is a new feeling. Hmm.