Newby here, desperate for some advice (thread 2)

[JRuss]

Thought I should start a new thread. Here is a link to my first one:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2692423&page=1

For those of you nice enough to have been following along, our family trip to the beach went ok for the most part. D12 had a friend with her so didn't need or want too much Dad (or Mom) time. But I got a lot of great bonding with S9, though. Swimming, we dug a huge hole, took him biking a bunch, ice cream -- pretty great.

It was a weird week with my wife. After not having sex for nearly a month, she initiated things the first morning we were there. I went along, which probably isn't DB-approved. It wasn't particularly great (fairly awkward, no eye contact), but I've been so lonely and increasingly more sex-obsessed, I wasn't able to resist. Afterward, she said something like "two years is a long time [referencing the outside timing she's come up with for when the kids will be "ready" to handle us divorcing] to go without some meaningless sex", so that cast an immediate pall on the proceedings. Most of the rest of the week was her pulling back from there. I so wanted to push but for the most part resisted the temptation.

This is microcosmic of a lot our relationship right now. She'll take a step toward me, and then retreat into coldness/distance. It's gotten really predictable, to the point where I know even as the step toward is happening that it will be followed, and usually pretty quickly, with the distancing. Yesterday was a good example. We returned home to a mountain of chores and cranky kids (aside: am I the only one who almost loses his mine when a kid who's been at the beach all week complains of boredom within the first hour of getting home?), and she started going through all of the things she had to do Monday AM (today) when she got into the office. She started to get stressed out and opened up about how hard she finds life and about how hard it's been for a long time. We had an hour+ conversation where I pretty much just listened and validated. She needed to get to the grocery and wanted to take a run before it got too hot out, so there were ample reasons for her to break the conversation off, but she kept at it. As she's talking, I'm thinking in the back of my mind, just listen, be present, validate, then don't pursue even though you'll really want to, and be ready for the rebound push-away. Sure enough, after the grocery and her run, the Frost was back and stuck around all afternoon and evening. Got the arm pat with weird look this AM when she left for work, so I'm assuming it's still there. I was at least ready for it, but it is still painful. Sustained progress would be so great but seems a million miles away.

I took D12 to summer camp this AM about an hour away where she'll be for a week. As is typical, I got choked up when she walked away, and I started thinking about how horrendous it will be when I have to do that again and again after shared custody starts.

On the GAL front, I have my first personal training appointment tomorrow after work. I'm up to 150-200 pushups/day now. My application to audit a class this semester at the college in our town was approved (wife said "That's cool" when she say my acceptance letter), so I'm going to start looking the catalog over and seeing what looks interesting. I'm gravitating toward something in the psychology area but need to make sure it will work with work and kid schedules. And I have my orientation meeting to start volunteering for Habitat for Humanity soon. So all of that is going well.

This is such a roller coaster, with the lows still a lot worse and more prevalent than the highs. Just trying to keep plugging away and not fall apart. I think it is still very much the case that I am the one hoping we can salvage things over this "1-2 years", while she sees it as a 1-2 year period she just has to get through before finally getting what she (thinks) she wants.

[Buxom]

JRuss, I know the pattern well! It hurts and sets back the detachment and brings false hope.

I'd like to offer a suggestion regarding classes. Imho I'd stay away from psychology classes right now. She could easily become defensive that you maybe analysing her and judging. I speak from my experience as my training is in psychology and it is a hindrance. I get accused of psychologizing him by what I say, and snooping when I'm just using my observational training. That's how I knew things were going on prior to BD. Anyway, just sharing experience.

Your experience with sex makes me rethink things for when I get home. I'm away for a few days to get myself together. I know he's moved back to mbr and I have no I intention to move out. Still not sure what to do about that. My DB coach said connecting with sex was my choice and no problem. I feel like, while it could be cake eating on his part, it is one less rejection he would feel and may assist in some good feelings about me. I will try to make it special and not be hesitant. Is there something she particularly likes that you could do? Not sure what if anything makes a difference with these MLC sufferers.

Anyway, despite the pain, it sounds like you are doing great dbing to me! If you find a detachment secret let me know! Colleen

[ForGump]

Afterward, she said something like "two years is a long time to go without some meaningless sex"

Hurtful, but I think sex is rarely meaningless -- I think it has a strong subconscious effect. I'd keep doing it, if you can handle the emotional punch in the gut afterward.

[JRuss]

Thanks, Buxom. I hadn't thought about how taking a psyche course might be perceived by her. It's really a topic I'm interested in having been in IC now for about 15 months, and she actually said "that's cool" when I showed her my acceptance letter and told her what I was thinking of taking,though, so I'll probably go through with it. I didn't take any of those courses back when I was an undergraduate, so it'd likely be a 101-type intro deal, and I'm not sure I'd get anywhere close to being able to analyze any of what's going on in her head .

ForGump -- yeah, a definite gutpunch and hard to know what's right. It makes detaching harder, and that was already something I don't think I've made any real progress with. But under the believe nothing of what they say doctrine, I'm not at all sure she really means it's completely "meaningless" for her. And I hate to think of myself hitting the dating scene when/if this marriage ends some time from now if I'm coming off a full multi-year cold streak. My desperation would be palpable, and women would probably run away in terror

[ForGump]

JRuss... I have to say... a wife who says is no longer attracted to you and wants to leave but then is willing to stay for 1-2 years while having sex... that sounds like someone who is still trying to sort out all her feelings in her head/heart. It's still a very painful place to be, for you, but if I were in your shoes I'd have a bit of hope that she can still come around to her senses, that you can repair and rebuild your marriage, slowly. Just a thought. It just seems like a much (or maybe just somewhat) better place than where I am.

[JRuss]

Just an update, not so much because anything happened of any import, but more to show how little to nothing seems to happen, and to share how that makes me feel (shameless bid for support).

W had to work late last night and came home exhausted. I had made tacos for me and S9 (D12 is at overnight camp this week) and had saved her some, which she seemed to appreciate.

After she ate, she watched some of the Convention, and I joined her on the couch because I like Al Franken from back in his SNL days. I wanted to sit close to her, maybe even rub her feet (she loves that), but I at least resisted that impulse. I went to bed first and read; she joined me, which is a bit of a departure (she's often lately holed up somewhere else to avoid me), but she only read for a moment before turning out the light, so not much can be interpreted one way or the other, I don't think.

Woke up this AM, she was first to leave, she gave me a peck on the cheek, but, there, again, I was between her and the door (my favorite place to drink my coffee), and I think she just did it so as not to be awkward. Other days she hasn't kissed me though, and I've been in the same place, so who knows.

All of which is to say (i) detachment is still completely illusive, even as I get better at faking like I'm detached when I'm around her, and (ii) days go by, without much of anything happening, and, mentally, I check off another day gone as we apparently move closer to the day we split. It is so hard not to push things, because the always lurking fear is each day is just something she has to get through before she can say she did enough to make it any worse than it has to be for the kids.

I tell myself it still hasn't even been a month since she was formally working with a realtor looking at a house to move out to, and then it seems like maybe there's been an improvement of sorts. Then I realize this isn't what a detached or even detaching person thinks or feels, and I get frustrated with myself. Ugh.

Day by day is my internal mantra -- just need to figure out how to make it the way I actually live my life. There is still just a lot of fear, worry, etc. that we're moving toward something I really don't want. Intellectually I know that that's exactly what we are doing, and that we won't get off that path unless/until she decides she doesn't want to be on it, but my emotional connection is still painfully strong, and I don't have the detachment that others here seem to have been able to find.

[MoveFrwd]

(ii) days go by, without much of anything happening, and, mentally, I check off another day gone as we apparently move closer to the day we split.

JRuss -
I have bad news for you. At some point in your life, you are going to die. I dont know when, but I promise it will happen.

With that said, do you check off each day as a day closer to death? Or do you count the number of successful days that you have had? I think you should consider to approach this like that. Dont worry about a countdown clock....youre counting down to a future you cant possibly know. Focus on instead making each day as good as it can be.

Oh. And find another place to drink your coffee.

[ForGump]

Man, look on the bright side. She slept in the same bed with you. She kissed you on the cheek. And you have some meaningless sex to look forward to once a week. That's hell of a lot more than what others have going on in their broken marriages.

(But don't let all that go to your head -- I think detaching is still the best thing to do.)

[doodler]

JRuss,

What ForGump said. And, you had to mention tacos. When my wife used to ask what I wanted for supper, I'd often respond, "I'd like to eat taco." That was our code phrase for doing that thing. You had to go and dredge-up old memories. You should be ashamed of of yourself! Go sit in the corner and think about what you've done.

[RSG]

JRuss,

What ForGump said. And, you had to mention tacos. When my wife used to ask what I wanted for supper, I'd often respond, "I'd like to eat taco." That was our code phrase for doing that thing. You had to go and dredge-up old memories. You should be ashamed of of yourself! Go sit in the corner and think about what you've done.

I hate that I popped in here. Yes, go to timeout!!