Deadline for Decision 8/15

[RosaLinda]

Oh Chippie..... So sorry you are going thru this. Your mind must be spinning.

Keep your appointment with the lawyer on Friday. Make a list of talking points so you are not all over the map. Tell the lawyer the facts, such as

• that you have two young daughters, and that your husband makes more money than you do
• that your husband is acting irrationally and abusively at time, throwing things at you including a computer and locked you out of the house, and makes derogatory untrue statements in front of the girls. Tell the lawyer the abusive things that YOU did to your husband too
• that your husband is having an emotional, and perhaps a physical, affair with the woman he went camping with
• that he wants to purchase a house together and made an offer on one
• he keeps saying that he has not made up his mind about whether you two should stay together or divorce
• that you also do not know whether you want to get divorced or not

And anything else you can think of. Tell the lawyer that you want to know what your rights are, and how to protect yourself and your girls. Ask the lawyer if it is wise to sign a contract on a house at this time. He or she will tell you about the divorce laws in your state (each state is a little different).

For what it's worth, I agree with ForGump, and would back out of the house contract too. But since you have an appointment with a lawyer tomorrow anyway, why not take advantage of that and get some professional advice.

Oh, and about not being able date-able at age 48 - I got divorced after 38 years of marriage, at age 61. I am now almost 64, and have been seeing a nice man who treats me like a queen for the past 2 years. So you can stop worrying about being too old for dating LOL

[job]

I also agree...do not sign any documents, i.e., contract on a house at this time. I would seriously think about getting my own place and if he wants to date you, that would be up to you, but under no circumstances would I sign nything "jointly" w/your h at this time.

Do not have any more relationship talks w/him. It's not working and the more you have them, the more frustrated both of you get. Table those discussions for now. Keep the conversations on the children and finances, etc., i.e., keep to neutral subjects.

As for dating, age is just a number. Many of us have divorced and are dating again and it might just surprise you...but the second time around, many of the relationships are even better...so please don't worry about your age when it comes to dating.

Good luck tomorrow!



Go see the lawyer, address all of your concerns, i.e., RosaLinda has given you some good talking points, but you can add additional points to it.

[Chippie]

OK I've skimmed through the book and probably need to start over since I've lost my place.

I've started decluttering with the mantra- only the best for me and trusting that I don't need to hold onto something until I get a replacement but that after I get rid of old stuff I'll have more room for the new replacements.

I've been going out with friends - as always.

I've been inquiring about taking an improv class.

I go to alanon.
I'm trying to call our children but not him while they're on the trip.
I had a weird epiphany of positivity. All jealousy fell away (for a few hours) and I decided that I would try to pretend even if I didn't feel it. I told him I didn't care what gals he was hanging out with. I believed him that he wasn't doing anything and that he hid it from me because he was afraid of how jealous and pissed I would get. OK I did talk about the relationship a bit. I told him I was getting hung up on his presentation (obnoxious presentation) but the real facts were what mattered more. And that I didn't need him to be there with me in the same frame of mind - we could take turns and that I'm in a bubble of positivity but he didn't need to be. He said it sounded good and we should try to make it work a bit. We decided to get the house. I think I got too optimistic because he's not calling me except to set me up to talk to the girls or if he needs me to do something. I also told him that I needed to stop wanting his reaction to be a certain way - I needed to care about my own reaction to his - and not have one. Own my own decision and not hold on to resentments.

I'm trying to get started on an art project.

I am doing the thing he asked me to do which is going to measure the house that we're in contract on. It seems its good to buy a fixer upper because we could easily break it into two places and one rent would help pay the mortgage on the other.

I made sure to get a hair cut, color my hair. I got a house keeper for three hours for each weekend that they're gone for super cheap. $12/hr - so $36 and she spruces up the whole place. I got a massage. I got the car washed. Going to work. Watch more tv and went on the internet more than I would have liked... I'm weaning myself off of asking my daughters questions that might accidentally reveal what he's doing. I'm trying to ask things that couldn't possibly reveal stuff so there's no way he'd think I was checking on him. ... I am beginning to hide my posts so he doesn't see them on facebook so he can't keep an eye on me. ... ok I'm fading . more soon.

[Zues126]

All awesome insights. I'm glad you're getting support in real life from these groups and your family.

I would really recommend no more R talks. You are 1000% better off showing with behavior versus telling with words. 1000% better.

When you tell him with words it seems contradictory. You are saying the words "I don't need a reaction from you", but if you don't, then why are you telling him these words? If you didn't want a reaction from him you wouldn't tell him. Why not just avoid reacting to his behavior, then little by little he'll see the changes...or he won't, or he won't care, or whatever. Again, not your issue.

When you tell WAS your goals and game plans it will look bad when you stumble (you said you weren't going to react...) and even when you do things better they will think it's manipulative (you're just acting this way to get me to...).

Real change has to be for you. Even if WAS doesn't notice, care, turn back, or do his part, these have to be things you're doing for you.

Now, if you're just lonely for support and conversation then you need to do more GAL. Post here more often. Talk with friends from your group that want to listen. But WAS can't be your confidant right now. He has his own journey to make without you, and talking about your journey or how you view things, or what you're working on, it will drive him further away. His behavior is saying he needs space, if you crowd him he'll need to retreat. WAS should be initiating 90%+ of all R conversation, maybe even 100%. And when he does your role should be to be silent and validate.

My DB coach said "This isn't the model for a future potential M, that you bury your needs and silence your voice...but you don't have an M right now and this isn't the time and place."

Detach. 180. GAL. And follow those rules. You are on the right road, time to walk it on your own. Not easy with him around. But it can be done. Keep posting!

[Vanilla]

Chippie

A couple of posters have asked me to check in on you and read your thread.

All of the posters here a small number have exposure to serious abusive behavioural issues. Sometimes that includes in laws in dysfunctional families too.

I won't label your WH, but there are several very serious flags in his behaviour which concern me greatly, so I think it might be time to help you educate yourself on those and come to your own conclusions.

There is a big difference between abusive behaviour (which can arise as a result of situations or as a reaction) and have systemic abusive issues.

The former can be resolved in time and the later likely will continue beyond the R.

Indeed we play a role in being abused, I do not vilify the target of abuse here just accept that we make our choice of partners and sometimes it requires great skill to navigate these tricky waters in S and D an abuser.

Next, yes Zues has a point too, sometimes it's too easy to label damaged Rs as abusive ones, when that may not be so. Victim mentality can be easy solution.

This sitch you find yourself in is likely exceptional. There are several posters here now and from the past who sitches in my opinion involve severe abusive behaviour. In no order they are Greengrass, Schermann, Vanilla (me), Zelda, Mustardseed and Ancaire.

There are a couple more including Rosalinda who has posted to you and knows her stuff that acknowledge abuse. The list includes men and women, this isn't exclusively a female domains.

Zelda and I put together a couple of threads on abuse which I am going to provide a link. I am here to indicate to you where you can get some sense on your sitch and in my opinion this is one of the toughest journeys you are about to face.

You may be resisting your own nature on bonding with your abuser, by compartmentalising his actions there will be times when you will drawn back in, only for the sweet cycle of abuse to start over and each cycle is worse.

The rage of systematic abusers when foiled is quite astonishing. My journey is there for you to read if you sown choose, but know tthis is in your life for a reason and great healing and extraordinary post traumatic growth can arise. Dry drunks still have all of the issues of compulsion plus the anger because they may not have their self medication drug of choice (booze). The issues are still there. Please see protection of yourself and your safety as paramount and protecting it in whatever way is needed is nothing you must apologise for. It's the best thing you could have done, do not hesitate to do so again.

This is what I know from experience:

Abuse is hard to deal with when you see great things about your abuser and sometimes that's all you can see, other times it can be all bad and others balanced

Breaking away requires a series of spell breaks

Keep a detailed abuse diary and if necessary record the abuse

Save everything safely away

Have at least one safe person in real life who will support you

You will tread water and that may be the best you can do for a long time

Your safety (and your children) comes first last and in the middle

List here the abuse history, Zelda found this useful as did I, putting it writing makes it tangible and somehow speLL breaks

Resolve never to be abused again by anyone my mantra was I will not be abused

I had specialist help from the freedom program available online to recognise abuse, there are charities. Educate yourself and don't stop learningredients.

Twelve steps is amazing, for me Gamanon but there is a core in all of these programs. Twelve steps particularly steps4 and 5 are so powerful in connecting to your higher power

--------------------------------

Please post to my thread and know you are with those here who have traversed some of these waters.

Systemic Abuse is not your fault, you did cause it, you can't control it and you cant cure it. It's a waste to MC, mediate or placate an abuser. Setting boundaries is going to make the reaction worse too, as these get tested. If you need to do so validate the abuser until you can get away. These are my thoughts.

NVC is about two determined individuals wanting to get their communication right, an abuser abuses because they like it and abuse isn't about anger but control. NVC is likelying to trigger abuse. I tried it amoung every tactic I could think of.

Your path may well be to cease engagement with your abuser and a possibility is grey rock.

Under no circumstances allow yourself to be triggered, I had my screaming banshee phase and it created great damage in me as a reactive abuse mechanism. Some abusers can use that phase against you.

Rosalinda is a powerful poster and I admire her very much. Greengrass called my sitch for me as abusive. And truly it is and sadly has deteriorated beyond anything I ever thought. So Chippie expect the worst, smears, triangulation, abuse tactics, sweet talk, everything under the sun. You won't be disappointed.

Keep posting, be authentic and the wonderful DB posters here will give you support. I honestly don't think I would be through my D without the amazing travellers on my journey.

V

Abuse thread Vanilla and Zelda

[Chippie]

ugh. Reading this is like a rock in my stomache. His thing is predominantly emotionally and verbally abusive except for the one time I mocked him that it escalated to him breaking the door and kicking me out. I've gotten very angry as well. And you're right not to let myself get triggered. I think I need to print out and hang up the 180 list. NVC did not work for him at all!

It's clear he doesn't want to leave me but he's very angry with me. I think I'm a mirror for his own behavior which is projected on me combined with any bad behavior of my own.

I'm going to practice leaving the room any time I feel reactive.

I always tell everyone what's going on which is sort of bad because I need to stick to a few select people. Although I do wallow in the victim role quite often I can clearly see that he is an abuser with or without my own codependant behavior. I'm lucky to be in a 12 step program (he is too). and to have this online forum. There's a lot of overlap in the tenets of the program and the 180 - the detach with love mantra. Keep the focus on myself etc.

[Vanilla]

Chippie

Please don't over think ok?

Let the thoughts marinade and unfold.

You have the gift of time and 12 steps. You no longer are alone.

Rest and cry if you must.

Once you know there is no unknowing.

I will hang around for you.

V

[job]

Chippie,

Did you meet w/your lawyer yesterday? What did he advise you to do with respect to purchasing a home w/your h at the present time?

[Chippie]

Don't over think? bwa ha ha ha!!! I'm 48 it's very hard for me not to over think stuff. I'll do my best. I'm going out with the gals to an art show with popsicles. We moved a year ago and this has been the easiest move yet. I've met so many fun people.

Vanilla thank you.

Job,
The deadline for the inspection period was thursday. We decided to go ahead with it. He is very good at fixing things up and having a project focuses him in a good way. I know it's kind of absurd. I cancelled the attorney for Friday because I needed to orient and re-write my list of questions due to changing circumstances. I've talked to them and a few others over the phone.

We own another home in LA that I bought first and we did a refi on. If we divorce we'd have two homes to sell. The area is so tough on renters. Mortgages are 1K less a month than rentals and the place would be easy to divide into two units to lower costs so I felt like either way it could work. I know there's a lot of rationalizing and denying but we have been together for 16 years at this point we'd both prefer it could work out. He wants it to work out. What he's doing about that - I don't know but with 180 it doesn't matter - I'm doing my own thing. I'm almost over my jealousies. I have no reason to believe he has ever cheated on me so I can't keep being suspicious forever. That's part of what has poisoned stuff for us. (that's my part) Anyway, more will be revealed. Thank you all for looking in on me.

[Chippie]

Trying to focus on myself and GAL. Those muscles are half out of practice. I can do it on the one hand in terms of socializing and activities but my brain is a broken record. A friend wrote me that when he dropped off our girls he was flirty as I said he would be. I asked for specifics and it was the stuff that he does in front of me that has annoyed me in the past. He'll be pissed at me if a guy is flirty with me but then HE flirts with people and I'm possessive if I mention anything. When I asked for specifics she wrote:
"Hugs that lingered too long. Hand on the small of my back. When they left "you're dimples are amazing, they light up the room when you smile."" This is the kind of thing that I'm trying to not care about. But since I wasn't there it seems like he was hoping she was desperate since she and her husband split up a bit back. His insecurity and looking for closeness with women kind of grosses me out. At the moment pictures of him disgust me and yet I'm feeling jealous. What's up with that? Now the kids are with my Mom and he's certainly meeting up with some women tonight or tomorrow. He promised to let me know before having sex with anyone but I wonder how he even classifies that. My brain doesn't do well in the in-between. Can you advise on how to focus my thoughts on what is happening with us? Should I pretend we'd definitely splitting up? Maybe I just want him because he doesn't want me? And for the outward trappings of family life and children together. Walking the line is difficult for me. Do I pretend he doesn't live here and focus on the girls? They return on Thursday. I don't know how far I should take it for us to stay together for the kids. I know that I want to be with someone who wants to be with me - clearly so - and I'm willing to be in a temporary situation but how long of temporary is even acceptable? I'm 48 - I DO want to be in a relationship with someone and I think that it will be harder at this age. One thing in my favor is that I'm slim and have amazing joie de vivre, creativity, adventurousness, I'm pretty and - jeez - can I just write myself an online dating ad right now?