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First phone coaching session and I'm more confused than ever!! He's withdrew more and more this week almost like he's doing 180 on me. Feels like pressure to submit. He told me he liked the independent, uncomplicated me from the past and now that I'm working on that, more forme than anyone, he's snarling or silent treatment. Hate it as we used to be so passionate , in sync, and best friends. He even said last month he missed our connection and friendship. I do too!!!

So coach thinks he's MLC and sex addicted, not just about the affairs. She says that's a different approach. Please tell me what u know as we ran out of time!!!!

Her instructions were:
1. Breathe, it's been five years at least of this turmoil

2. Be friends with him, develop a good solid friendship again. Read his body language and if not closed or angry then Talk about light things and pretend he's a friend as a guest in my home.
3. Don't pursue so as to create resistance?
4. Give him space, esp when hes taking space.
5. Be unpredictable
6. Read DR, five love languages and gottzman book seven principles to make marriage work. I'm reading DR, have read love language and ordered the other.
7. Emotionally detach, my biggest weakness. I have my own rollercoaster and then I ride his most times too! Need help here, lots of help!
8. Be a cat, not a puppy
9. She thinks it's ok for me to try and have sex with him. Is this because She thinks he's a sex addict and I have to connect there???

Thoughts? Like I said, I'm confused.
I'm going away for a few days to house sit for a friend with an old dog. WH said, "sounds like good timing all around..." whatever that means!?!


Previous thread...
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2691924#Post2691924


Me54 WH48
S18 D16
M 22 T 24
EA-PA-EA 2011-2015
Separated 10/14 - 06/15
BD1 02/14
BD2 05/16
BD3 08/21/16 and began drinking again
Working on me and liking me again


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I had several sessions with phone coach, and it was very helpful, however it is worth being aware that the tactics recommended by the (excellent) phone coaches can vary from that recommended by the (excellent) community here, just as there are differences between individual members of the forums.

One of the big differences is many forum members suggest a different approach for Wayward spouses as opposed to "walk away" spouses where there is not another person involved. Michelle and phone coaches don't draw a big distinction there.

Like yours, my phone coach also suggested many of the things you listed, including focusing on the friendship to rebuild a solid base for the future, and that it was ok to have sex if the spouse seemed willing, etc.

I walked that path for a while. In some ways I felt things were improving, but I still also saw signs of being fundamentally disrespected by my WW. I had a very hard time reconciling the cognitive dissonance between the new-better-stronger independent me I was trying to create, and the me that was having sex with someone still in an EA.

The sex in particular was a double-edged sword for me. She was willing at times, but by me initiating it I never knew whether she really was interested or just went along with it because it was easier. There were also subtle differences like her avoiding eye contact and kissing, which made it much less fulfilling for me and was kinda screwing with me mentally and making it very hard to detach emotionally.

Ultimately my personal choice was to take a bit firmer of a stance than my phone coach was advocating and I have felt that was a more authentic approach for me. Even as I was adjusting my tactics, the phone coach was still very useful to me in hashing things out and handling specific situations. There were several times something came up and I was able to get an impromptu session with my phone coach even the same or next day. One session was at 11pm!


Me, WW - Upper 30s
BD - Apr 1 2016
EA - Apr 7 2016 (discovered; ongoing for months; did not confront right away)
Confronted wife about EA - May 17
Wife sent NC email to OM - July 11
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The one aspect of having sex with him that would concern me is if he is having sex with someone else, that could be possibly dangerous for your own health.

If you are absolutely sure that he is faithful you can try it and see the results.

My only other word of caution is that an MLC can take a very long time, we do have a forum and more homework there on this subject.


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Buxom,

A lot of the suggestions your DB coach is telling you to do is what mine is telling me to do too. Well, except the sex part. I can only wish for that and I'm not to sure my W would be too willing right now.


M 55 W 52
MR 32 T 34+
D29
BD May 8, 2016 - She moved out
ILYBNILWY May 15 (Through email)
No EA/PA
August 23 - DB used against me in every way
Divorce July 18, 2017 - Life is getting better every day
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EDF, RDS, And Cadet... input is so appreciated! I'm thinking about the whole sex thing and why I would or would not want to. There are pros and cons. Yesterday WH asked me to go to see the new star trek movie. We went, had a nice time then went food shopping while we waited to pick up S18. We were chatting, nothing heavy, and got talking about sleep issues each of us have had in the last month. One month ago today he moved out of the mbr. He also told me he's been taking naps in my bed. So that's why he's been making my bed! frown I told him I missed having him in our bed. Long silence before he said, well it is a comfortable bed. I left it after that and continued to chat on another topic. Temperature taking? Maybe. I was just compelled to let him know he was missed without the pressure of an R convo.

I'm leaving today for four days and I don't plan to contact WH in any way, just my kids. I want to really make a solid restart of project me. I will look into the MLC board and read my current books too, like DR and solo partner. I have another session booked for Wednesday before I get home.
It has occurred to me that he'll move back into mbr while I'm gone. I'll deal with that when and if it happens. Will have to give it some thot tho so I do not react to anything he might toss at me.

Question.... what do I need to know differently about sex addiction vs affairs only?
THANKS!


Me54 WH48
S18 D16
M 22 T 24
EA-PA-EA 2011-2015
Separated 10/14 - 06/15
BD1 02/14
BD2 05/16
BD3 08/21/16 and began drinking again
Working on me and liking me again


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Buxom. The best thing is to let it all go. Any feelings that are negative. Disconnect and be you. Find your happy. Kind of give less of a sh!t if you can. Occupy yourself with other things. I think it's kind of like getting your mind back. Make that your goal for now. You can focus on other goals later, reconnecting etc. It's all baby steps so keep busy to help stop over thinking. I promise it will help you. It has me.


M46/W40/D8/S6/T20/M12/Separated 6/2016,W takes kids
Issues2009
Wpartying w/g.f's2013on
EA2013PAdeniedWleavesMBR
ImeetAP/EAhalts
VariousBDDates
MFCourse
WSpew
EAresumes I halt
Wrages
DBIng4/2016




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If he is having a PA then I would recommend condoms bare minimum if you have sex. Even then they can't protect against HPV so think about that. The DB coaches are an invaluable source of guidance and support but you have to live with your choices, no one else.

Someone once described pursuing to me like this:

Pretend you are standing on a football field and there is a huge Styrofoam block between you and you WH. When you pursue and walk toward WH the block pushes him back. So either retreat or stand still but don't call, text, walk towards him, nothing.

At best find somewhere else to be, keep calls brief (and he needs to call) end them on a light note but be the one to end the call. Find something to do that really makes you happy. Joy and confidence are a huge turn on universally. So you have to find your joy from within and not from your partner. Remember a time before you were partnered, how you behaved, how you came across.

Recently I regressed a bit with my WH and I think it's because I have been too available to him. I found myself calling him a few times a day and he was becoming more aloof again. Before this I had been very good about not initiating calls and keeping things short, sweet and ending the calls myself. I think I've started coming across clingy again so I am stepping back again. Initially this was very difficult for as I wanted to constantly temp check him, but that was just driving me nuts. So back to the drawing board. Do what works, and in my case it helped when I just wasn't so available to him. He tends to miss me when I am doing my own thing and not chasing him.


M 10yrs T 13yrs
BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW
BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off
Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce
April '17-Letting go
2018 D busted
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Oh, and the 180 is for you, not him. It's to help make you a healthier person, less codependent and make yourself the best person you can be. That way you win regardless of what happens to your marriage.


M 10yrs T 13yrs
BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW
BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off
Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce
April '17-Letting go
2018 D busted
DD8, DS6, DS3
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Surfer and Sara. Sound advice and very helpful thank you!!

It's been a week of things coming together in my mind and what you've both shared fits in with it all. It's like peeling back layers on an onion. Each layer has a slightly different set of tasks and obstacles. I can't meet the challenges if I'm grieving and depleted. I am fortunate that the friend I called about 90 mins away from me said I could come for a visit and then house sit with her dog for four days. Peace, solitude and time to think and consolidate my thots and gains. Walks, biking, picking berries, reading and sewing. Time with me... I wonder what she will be like?

I turned off the phone but I will be online a bit to check in here. smile
Day one here and I feel no anxiety. Hope to wake in the same state! smile Good night!


Me54 WH48
S18 D16
M 22 T 24
EA-PA-EA 2011-2015
Separated 10/14 - 06/15
BD1 02/14
BD2 05/16
BD3 08/21/16 and began drinking again
Working on me and liking me again


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Hi Buxom. I hope you are enjoying your day. No anxiety is great. Keep enjoying that free time it's what you need to feel 'you' again. Keep busy with those walks, books, dogs etc. It's good when you can remember how lovely it is to just be you and to be hApPy : ) isn't it? We don't need to feel anxious, in a way we choose to. I guess focusing on you, like you are, allows you to have space to do something else rather than choosing anxiety. Enjoy the space. Recharge and be you!


M46/W40/D8/S6/T20/M12/Separated 6/2016,W takes kids
Issues2009
Wpartying w/g.f's2013on
EA2013PAdeniedWleavesMBR
ImeetAP/EAhalts
VariousBDDates
MFCourse
WSpew
EAresumes I halt
Wrages
DBIng4/2016




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Have you heard the expression, "Wherever you go, there you are."? My same old brain has followed me here. Funny how yesterday I felt calm, focused, independent and safe emotionally and now here I am trying to rediscover how I did that yesterday.

Day two started with the same anxiety I left home with. These few days are for me to start changing a number of old, stupid habits... codependent, fears, thought patterns and work on detachment. I will admit to feeling disappointed that I did not get a text from WH since I left, guess I wanted one... so add "no expectations" to the list! Anything from him will be a surprise and hopefully a good one. I guess we get so used to living with and within one another that thoughts and action become intertwined. It's amazing how he seems to have turned the "us" part off or turned it around in such a way that I cannot. I just have to find my switch. Today, during my reading and thinking, I will write out what resonates with and what helps.


Me54 WH48
S18 D16
M 22 T 24
EA-PA-EA 2011-2015
Separated 10/14 - 06/15
BD1 02/14
BD2 05/16
BD3 08/21/16 and began drinking again
Working on me and liking me again


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Thanks surfer! Great to hear from you again! Weird how I checked messages here before I posted and did not see this until now.
It's a process I guess and the challenge will be to keep focused on me when I return home.


Me54 WH48
S18 D16
M 22 T 24
EA-PA-EA 2011-2015
Separated 10/14 - 06/15
BD1 02/14
BD2 05/16
BD3 08/21/16 and began drinking again
Working on me and liking me again


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Buxom, if it helps please feel reassured that I do really understand. I am going through exactly the same today. At times I manage to feel 'free' of what seems to be a horrible curse (everything you describe 'anxiety etc') if feel like I have detached but then realise I have not. I know really that I am slowly getting there and I therefore know you are too. I also suspect like me, in a way, you really don't want to detach. Because you want to re-attach with your H. I want the same with my W. I think this is normal. You are like two trees with intertwined roots. It takes a long time to disengage I suspect. But don't forget you are detaching from the anxiety not from him as such. That makes a lot of sense and of course you would want to - who 'wants' to feel anxious?

I guess the wayward spouse seems able to do this because they do it when they become wayward. H 'did' it, you still are 'in a process' but it's hard I understand - when all you want is a reflection of the love you feel for them. However, you are not going to get that right now so expecting it is only hurting you and the saddest part is that you end up hurting yourself. I find that you also start thinking it's all your fault too (or certainly take on too much of the blame - not that there should be any if you can cope with that). I guess forgiving and giving less of a cr@p - zero expectations, as you say, is a good plan.

Also, don't forget you want him to change, and if he has still not, then you probably don't want this version of him. Give it time (and him) and most importantly give yourself time.

In terms of getting back to relaxing, what about reading, walking, biking etc. Have you done any of that today? Does it help? I find reading works - problem is all I want to read about is DB'ing and self help at the moment - I would have seen all that as silly nonsense reading a few years ago! 😄


M46/W40/D8/S6/T20/M12/Separated 6/2016,W takes kids
Issues2009
Wpartying w/g.f's2013on
EA2013PAdeniedWleavesMBR
ImeetAP/EAhalts
VariousBDDates
MFCourse
WSpew
EAresumes I halt
Wrages
DBIng4/2016




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Thanks surfer, I feel you do understand the push and pull of wanting peace thru detachment but without the disconnection. It is a horrible curse and it's no wonder I stayed in denial so long!! WH had a long affair of two years PA and then two more of EA, the b!ich would not let go!!! He seemed like my guy again after rehab and thru my cancer treatments. We were closer than had been in years, then this new A starts and he's right back into MLC. I know for a fact he's with her now as he told me the AA gang was going to support another member in a play today. He even reminded me of it as I was leaving yesterday. I have to wonder what he wants from me? Then I think, regardless, what do I need to do for me cos he's gonna do what he's gonna do. I wish it was like the USA and that I could lock him out of the house. He won't leave and said he'd make it hard for me to stay. I wonder tho what kind of message they get (their perspective) on the way we are responding to this. I get all tied in knots over whether he might take an approach that further damages the marriage and other times I wonder if in near done. The latter makes me cry.

I did go for a walk, read outside and picked berries. Too windy to bike ride today. The reading is dbing and alanon which helps to detach. I struggle with some of it cos I've been a dormant and some strategies sound doormat like. Do you have similar struggles with the strategies?


Me54 WH48
S18 D16
M 22 T 24
EA-PA-EA 2011-2015
Separated 10/14 - 06/15
BD1 02/14
BD2 05/16
BD3 08/21/16 and began drinking again
Working on me and liking me again


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I also find it hard to be on the forums here to read the hardships that may lay ahead for me and my kids S18 & D16.
The MLC ones made me cry this morning.

The veil of denial lifted from me over the last week and I go back and forth between anger and sadness, both bring tears


Me54 WH48
S18 D16
M 22 T 24
EA-PA-EA 2011-2015
Separated 10/14 - 06/15
BD1 02/14
BD2 05/16
BD3 08/21/16 and began drinking again
Working on me and liking me again


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Oh Buxom. You are having such a hard time of it. I do understand how you are feeling. It is so confusing at times isn't it. I guess there is a tendency to overthink, thinking about what if...etc. You also deep down want to do whatever needs doing to mend things. But you can't and sadly neither can I. I just have to accept that, but some days it is harder than others isn't it?

Perhaps the "locking him out" etc point and feelings towards the OW (whilst totally understandable and normal) might get in the way to some degree. I had exactly the same feelings towards my WW's OM. However those feelings are Going slowly and I am really trying to forgive, to protect me, and therefore ultimately the kids. I guess anger, resentment, etc are all feelings that come from that grief cycle that we keep going round. I have learned to accept my feelings more than I used to. To not fear them as such if I can. I find it is hard to do if you are feeling run down, tired etc of course and given the kids, chemo etc you will probably not be sleeping well etc. Particularly when you are worried what the WH is up to - try not to, you can't control his actions. We all keep getting told this but we forget as emotions kick in and anxiety starts tapping us on the shoulder. I was just thinking that I don't want to have emotions any more, but of course I do as I wouldn't be able to love my D8 or S6 or my wife and family without them.

I think a good nights sleep will help if you can get one. Don't know, I'd often have a drink to help me sleep but that started getting out of hand so need to be carefull there but just had some saffron tea which I read is good - particularly with milk. The fresh air picking berries will hep you to sleep also.

Don't forget that the behaviour of others, as described on forums etc, is unique. Whilst there are often similarities each situations is different, so try not to worry about what could happen - because it may not. It can result in negative self talk also - which can tend to influence your actions.....and might lead to the things you are trying to run from. Positive thoughts only tonight.

I do struggle with s strategies. I think you have to be aware of them but not apply them too rigidly at times though. I was all 'go dark' but then realised that I was not communicating at all with the WW that just won't work. So I now talk to her about the kids and just try to keep it light and happy - at times I am, at times I'm not. Here and there she has talked to me about her feelings or has cried. Again feelings. So I think I am doing a few things right. I also struggle with what is cake eating etc - I.e what behaviour should I consider unacceptable etc. I am trying not to worry about that though and also not second guess. Who knows, perhaps the concert is exactly that - so many times I have done the negative self talking thing and been wrong.

You are Buxom, you are in control of how you feel and you can try to detach. You are a good person and you are the one in the relationship that is doing all the good work and trying your best to keep the family together. For that I applaud you!!! I hope you have a good nights rest tonight and then feel more relaxed and in check as a result.

If you still feel shabby tomorrow - could try some vigorous exercise. It worked wonders for me earlier today!

You will be in my prayers tonight!


M46/W40/D8/S6/T20/M12/Separated 6/2016,W takes kids
Issues2009
Wpartying w/g.f's2013on
EA2013PAdeniedWleavesMBR
ImeetAP/EAhalts
VariousBDDates
MFCourse
WSpew
EAresumes I halt
Wrages
DBIng4/2016




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Thanks again surfer!! A good night sleep is always good! I'd been sleeping well but woke anxious. Last night, my first night away, was not great but I'm trying not to use any sleep aid while away. Maybe I should!

I struggle with the cake eating idea too. Then I think I can't control what he does, only me. And I feel I cannot create an environment that he'd want to run from. I'm doing well with 180 and being light and busy. I don't condone the cake eating and really I don't know what he's up to. For all I know he did end the PA as stated. The ea is another matter. I've heard it can take a while to fully disengage from it. All the waiting and wondering if I'm doing it all right is wearing on me.

Today's been up and down emotionally. Fighting the head and the heart. I've re-read detachment, read chapter three in DR,and I keep picturing myself being calm and serene when he's home and away. I've read about compassion and I want to project that rather than giving him the finger thru closed doors or walls. Never in front of anyone but it does affect me much longer.


Me54 WH48
S18 D16
M 22 T 24
EA-PA-EA 2011-2015
Separated 10/14 - 06/15
BD1 02/14
BD2 05/16
BD3 08/21/16 and began drinking again
Working on me and liking me again


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Question... So many things I do or say can be taken as criticism or can have him feel like a jerk , a consequence of his actions it's true. Do they get more down on themselves and cause further distance and emotional damage becos of shame, and then I'm seen in a more negative light?

Seems like we can't win! frown


Me54 WH48
S18 D16
M 22 T 24
EA-PA-EA 2011-2015
Separated 10/14 - 06/15
BD1 02/14
BD2 05/16
BD3 08/21/16 and began drinking again
Working on me and liking me again


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You know what's frustrating is Knowing WH is texting many others in his life, daily, and I don't get a freaking good night text. I hate MLC and all the skanks who prey on married men! I know it's a choice the man makes and things are messed up... just where are the morals and values loyalties?? Vent over.


Me54 WH48
S18 D16
M 22 T 24
EA-PA-EA 2011-2015
Separated 10/14 - 06/15
BD1 02/14
BD2 05/16
BD3 08/21/16 and began drinking again
Working on me and liking me again


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I'm right there with you, trying to detach - feeling sad, then feeling angry. Wanting it to be over somehow, but also wanting your spouse back. There's not much I can say other than I'm going through the same, and I know how most of the things I could say would just seem like empty platitudes so I won't bother. Just take it one day at a time.


Me-45, W-37, T-10 yrs, M-9 yrs
D -7 yrs, S-5 yrs
BD-5/3/16, D filed 6/8/16

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Thx for sharing, qt. I'm sorry for this terrible boat we r in. I like your tag line. If I can figure out how to add one I will.

Present, Perspective, Persistent, Practical


Me54 WH48
S18 D16
M 22 T 24
EA-PA-EA 2011-2015
Separated 10/14 - 06/15
BD1 02/14
BD2 05/16
BD3 08/21/16 and began drinking again
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Originally Posted By: Buxom
Thx for sharing, qt. I'm sorry for this terrible boat we r in. I like your tag line. If I can figure out how to add one I will.

Present, Perspective, Persistent, Practical


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Woke with lots of anxiety. Wish I could direct my brain while sleeping. As soon as I felt it and started to redirect my thoughts, I tried to get back to sleep only to wake later with it being worse. I dreamed a fabulous solution that made such sense but it faded on waking. Was likely useless anyway.

I'm doing very well with being unpredictable and not making contact. I haven't talked to WH since he hugged me goodbye Saturday afternoon. He has forwarded a couple of emails but not contact of substance. Was not sure whether to reply with thanks or not so I just left it. I'm staying away from Facebook and only texting my kids good morning and night. Forgot my phone cord so saving battery.
Today's book is on boundaries which will likely create more anxiety since I really let them slide and I am afraid to make things worse with WH. Ironically, I think my passivity and conflict avoidance bugs him, based on hints he's given lately. Also reading next chapter in DR. Too hot and humid to be out.
Colleen


Me54 WH48
S18 D16
M 22 T 24
EA-PA-EA 2011-2015
Separated 10/14 - 06/15
BD1 02/14
BD2 05/16
BD3 08/21/16 and began drinking again
Working on me and liking me again


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Advice please!
After 48 hours of no contact with me, WH emailed and not sure how and if I should respond at this point. His sick and elderly dad needs care for four days end of August and he asked... "Think you might be available for some of this time?"
We are so up and down and clearly my boundaries have been weak so normally I would have already said yes. There are three of the siblings who don't want to do more than a night or day. I do not want to take up all the slack. I want to discuss this and not by email. Ideas please!! Thanks so much!


Me54 WH48
S18 D16
M 22 T 24
EA-PA-EA 2011-2015
Separated 10/14 - 06/15
BD1 02/14
BD2 05/16
BD3 08/21/16 and began drinking again
Working on me and liking me again


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WH texted today just a check in, "How's it going?" I waited four hours to respond with "Good thanks!" Pretty proud of self then a few mins ago he asked where are the brownies. He meant the special brownies and seemed irked they were gone, he hadn't remembered. I answered too quickly, but I did it cos he sounded irked and I wanted the sitch over with. I asked him what was up and he said what he was doing. My next thot was, don't believe anything he says. I then ended it by saying my battery was dying. I hope I salvaged the sitch. Even just a text can set off the anxiety. I end up feeling ambushed even if it's pleasant

Who is this man and what did he do to my husband?!? I see glimmers of my guy and then he disappears. If he follows pattern, I won't hear from him tomorrow.

Pact with myself... no more than three emails or text Responses in a day. I will not initiate either.


Me54 WH48
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Originally Posted By: Buxom
Advice please!
After 48 hours of no contact with me, WH emailed and not sure how and if I should respond at this point. His sick and elderly dad needs care for four days end of August and he asked... "Think you might be available for some of this time?"
We are so up and down and clearly my boundaries have been weak so normally I would have already said yes. There are three of the siblings who don't want to do more than a night or day. I do not want to take up all the slack. I want to discuss this and not by email. Ideas please!! Thanks so much!


I'm by no means an expert, but I would agree to help care for his elderly dad for a day or two, but no more. I think this goes beyond the DB thing and it crosses into the right thing to do for his dad's health. I couldn't imagine how turning your heart away from helping your H's dad would be a good thing.

I would think this is also a time to communicate with your H person to person about this, and not through email. This requires a personal touch.


M 55 W 52
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Thanks RDS. I did say in an email that I looked forward to discussing this when I get home Thursday. I do not mind doing some of it for sure. I still am and want to be part of the family. It's just previous group emails sounded like most of it could fall to me. When I did not respond right away he added later that he would be able to take vacation days too. I should say so! I'm hoping we can Tuesdays together or should I arrange to do it separately given our in house separation?


Me54 WH48
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Separated 10/14 - 06/15
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I'm still house sitting and starting third day away. Having a hard time getting to sleep and harder time getting up. More depression setting in? I'm feeling everything, trying to accept reality as it is and move on. That is what IC said is the way to process emotions. I'm wondering if I'm still dwelling to much or is it processing the unbelievable stuff I'm living through?

Today is focus on me day. Yesterday I read too much on DR and MLC and realised I was getting into focus on him and future more. Again! Reconditioning of my thoughts is needed.


Me54 WH48
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Separated 10/14 - 06/15
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Buxom,

You should go to your favorite nursery and buy a large pot or a half of a wooden barrel and get a bunch of beautiful flowering plants and plant them in the pot/barrel. Rinse and repeat as necessary. Soon it'll become an addiction and then you'll find yourself wishing the WH would stay the h3ll away because he might interfere with your creations.

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Thanks for the reminder, Doodler. I do have many pots of flowers on two deck and on patio. I'm decluttering the house and attend to my horses as weather permits. I have other things I'm busy with and have been for months. Maybe I need another hobby?

In my journaling today, it became a letter to WH of support and understanding I have toward his underlying reasons for the MLC and affair... sex abuse and childhood neglect. It melts my heart but I do not accept his current coping. In the letter, which I will not give to him, I outline my understanding and intent to be his rock , or lighthouse. It sorted thru some thots and feelings and gave me a different perspective on the sitch.


Me54 WH48
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Yes, my wife was sexually abused by her babysitter and the babysitter's boyfriend and she had very strict, if not abusive, parents as well. I knew about some of the issues when we got married and I was happy to be there for her, but the EA has been a deal breaker. It's sad and unfortunate. My IC (who was our MC) says that my wife is very damaged. I wish I could help her, but I didn't break her and I can't fix her.

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Buxom -- I hope your time away is giving you some time to relax some and tend to your mental health.

On the question of helping his dad, I think it's admirable you'd tell him anything other than "No way" given what's he's done to you, but then I'm just a noob making tons of mistakes every day. I think the DB way would be to look at your relationship with his father (not your relationship with your WH) and determine what you want to do or not do for the father, without regard to how it might play in the context of your marital sitch.


Me: 46
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Hi, I haven't followed your thread but thought I'd swing by. I'm sorry you are in this situation, it's sounds like your wh, checks in and out like mine. Wrt his elderly fathers care, I guess in my eyes it falls to your r with your FIL, I also care for my MIL. And I still have been throughout h's ups and downs. My reasoning that I continue is that I have a great r with her. I in no way do it to help him, but more so that she is my family and I care for her also


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BD: 1/15
EA: 2/15
PA: 4/15
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Thanks Doodler. I'm keeping a list of things to remind myself when I'm feeling discouraged and your line of you didn't break her and you can't fix her is going on the list. I know we are not supposed to try and direct treatment or suggestions for them and it's darn hard!!! I wrote him a letter today, not to give him but to sort my thots. Not sure if it helped yet. Part of the processing though.


Me54 WH48
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Separated 10/14 - 06/15
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Cherry, thanks for stopping by! I've followed your thread and hope that you are doing well.
I do have a good r with FIL but it also will be a big favour for WH and his siblings who like to pass the buck. It's their dad and they're all being non committal. I have no problem helping out and I won't do it all. I'm hoping WH and I can go together. Some of the care is quite intimate I think. Anyway it would be nice to get out of our house and have different time together. Bad idea?


Me54 WH48
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Jruss, thanks for the thoughts. I'm still away and finding it harder than I thought. Normally, I would be texting and calling wh. It's what we always used to do. As per my prediction yesterday, he is entirely dark today. Why do I let it bother me? I'm trying not to be a doormat and trying to be unpredictable and mysterious. Tomorrow I will let them know I'm spending another night. Also still 180 strong.

I'm fighting my brain and my history with him in doing this new routine. It's hard and necessary and I hope he doesn't think I'm turning my back on him. Then I remind myself that he knows what I want cos I laid it out in June. My anxiety is higher than I expected. I'm struggling to focus on me. It's better when I walk the dog and pick berries so I likely need to stay away from the books and reading too much here right now. Feeling a bit more depressed overall and I had hoped to return home refreshed and sparkling. Colleen


Me54 WH48
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Ok, I am freaking out! So many questions and flip flipping from patience and just leave him already! frown
Then when I think of that, I look at all the reasons to stay and want to try harder. Then back to remembering all the details,that I know, of his current attachments. My denial protected me up til now and Now it hurts, hurts, hurts!
I'm not even home at the mo. He's not communicated much and only once to ask how it's going, the rest about his dad, one joke and forwarding bills paid. I do not know what I'm walking back into. I Know I have No control, only control me, but right now I feel so emotionally out of control. What the h3ll do I do now??


Me54 WH48
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BD1 02/14
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#2693021 07/27/16 01:34 PM
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WH just texted that "we have to talk". I feel sick!! I've been away four days and will return tomorrow. He's been increasingly disconnected and more downs than ups in the last two weeks.

If he tells me he wants a divorce or separation, I know I can't be emotionally reactive. He hates that. I've kept it under control for over a year now mostly and he says he doesn't trust my changes. What I NEED FROM EVERYONE is how is the best way to handle this? I need to be prepared or I know I will blow it.

At what point do I say, " This is not what I want."?? I can listen and validate but I need words!!!! And what else not to do!
If the talk is anything else I can deal, but if this is the big one..... I have to be prepared!!
I feel sick!

Also, he said before, when mad and yelling, that it was me who would be leaving. How do I respond to that cos I have no intention of leaving my house.

Thank you so much in advance for your Help!


Me54 WH48
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Buxom,
I'm so sorry that you are having a difficult time. Take a moment and just breathe! I would suggest that if he pushes to have a talk, I would sit and listen to what he has to say. Allow him to completely finish his conversation and if there are things that he says you know aren't true or he sounds very unhappy, I would start out by saying "H, I'm sorry you feel that way". If he brings up the subject of divorce, be honest and say "H, I'm sorry you feel that way. If a divorce is what you want, then I'm not going to stand in your way of getting one." If he wants to discuss splitting up assets, etc., stay "H, I need some time to think about all of this and I will let you know what my thoughts are at a later time." Keep things simple because if you start so show emotion, he's going to react to it and normally not in a positive way.

Since you are a very new member of the group, I wanted to advise you to stick to one thread until you've reached 100 postings/replies. Your other thread has less than 40 postings/replies. The reason we are asked to stick to one thread at a time is because we need to be able to post to one thread at a time and when there are multiple threads on the forum, we, the readers, will not know which one to post to because they are all active. Also, multiple threads doesn't allow us to keep up w/your situation, i.e., just as you will have a difficult time referring back to postings to see your progress. Also, you can change your subject line within a thread at any time. Cadet will most likely merge your two threads together.

For now, breathe! Try to stay calm. His talk may be happen or it could be about something else, i.e., something minor, but is important to him.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Just because he SAYS he wants a divorce and just because you VALIDATE that he wants one does not mean anything.
He still has lots of work to do to get a divorce.
Personally I would not help him.
If he wants a divorce then agree with him,
validation, I understand husband that you want a divorce.
Then STFU and just listen and no matter what he says - agree.
You are just speaking words.
Just take NO ACTIONS on these words - OK?

You are attaching a lot of EXPECTATIONS to this "TALK"
I would try to lower them to zero.


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I agree with cadet and job.
I also feel for you, because I know that feeling oh so well when "we need to talk" comes up.

The d isn't what you want, by validating you aren't agreeing. It's just a "I'm sorry you feel that way" and you can state quite firmly that it isn't what you want, and therefore will not do any of the heavy lifting to get it. Try your best to keep calm and stay strong. We are all here for you.

Just listen, listen and listen some more, and validate.
And an absolute no no, YOU don't leave the house or the mbr. If this is what he wants, he needs to do the work, he needs to go. Why should you be the one to leave when it's not what you want.

Big hugs.


Me 26 H 25
M 4
T 5
Baby born 4/14
BD: 1/15
EA: 2/15
PA: 4/15
reconciling: 4/15
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Job, I appreciate the words! I don't mind if the threads are merged, I just needed to get responses now. I did not know I could change the subject line.

Cadet, thanks for the directness, I need that. I am still struggling with expectations. I also read between the lines a lot. I will agree with anything said and listen only. I do not want this so no way I would help the process.
So then I still 180 and GAL? DB coach earlier today said to be warm and light with him and show happy to be home. I'm not to ask questions about him while away and do chapter five in DR using our exercise today... what themes I need to work on and do the empathy and validation when he brings things up. She does not know about this development.


Me54 WH48
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EA-PA-EA 2011-2015
Separated 10/14 - 06/15
BD1 02/14
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Cherry, thanks so much for the support! I do not want to leave mbr. He's moved in while I'm away so I don't know what will happen when I'm home. Can I be so direct as to say your words?? Why should I be the one to leave when it's not what I want?
I've got about 24 hours to pull myself together. This being away was supposed to help me strengthen and rest but it's been very difficult emotionally as I no longer have my denial shielding me. My eyes are wide open and I hurt, years worth of hurt.


Me54 WH48
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Oh honey, I know that feeling oh so well.

I would say so. Those are pretty much the words I said to my h. A bit of a 180 on my part. I think he was expecting tears and for me to agree to anything he said or to beg and plead. I was firm and strong, so yes I would certainly say to stay strong and firm and say that this is not what you want, so you will not be the one to leave.


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EA: 2/15
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Thanks cherry! I really wonder if I did the wrong thing this time away by not being in touch with WH. I left most emails unanswered and really took my time on others. Maybe he thinks I don't care? I'm trying to be unpredictable. I wish we had learned how to fight better but we are so conflict avoidance. It Sux!


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Originally Posted By: Buxom
Thanks cherry! I really wonder if I did the wrong thing this time away by not being in touch with WH. I left most emails unanswered and really took my time on others. Maybe he thinks I don't care? I'm trying to be unpredictable. I wish we had learned how to fight better but we are so conflict avoidance. It Sux!

You are on the right path - STOP worrying about what he thinks,
that is not why you are doing what you are doing.

You make changes for YOU, not to win him back.


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I guess I am thinking more about him than me. I'm just so scared since I'm so sure that today or tomorrow is the I want a D declaration. I'll have to be careful about back sliding! Feeling more depressed.


Me54 WH48
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I am sorry for your anxiety and worries. There are tonnes of sites on the web that can help you with that. I am not belittling what you are experiencing.It is tough. But I bet most of what you are feeling is self inflicted (rehashing the past or stressing about the future) and hence you can decide how you let that affect you.

For example your H telling you he wants a D.

Firstly you do not know that so don't assume it to be true.

Secondly if that is how he feels now and he wants to tell you that, he will. There is nothing you can do to stop it. So stressing changes nothing.

Thirdly even if he says that now, it is just a reflection of his current thinking. That can change. The proof is it changed from when ye got married till now.

Fourthly it changes nothing. Yes it confirms the bad state of your M and his intentions. But your path remains the same. You need to focus on that because only that is controllable.

You have had a long slog. Breath. Breath deep. You haveffriends here who will stand with you and help you through this.

Best wishes


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Oh yeah...... fifthly.You know that you should remain calm unemotional and validate IF he makes such a statement. That is priceless as reacting the wrong way really does not help


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Thank you foist! All good points that I used to have in my control. The last few years have ground me down and this last year with the breast cancer treatments, I'm both physically and emotionally drained.
I do rehash a lot! Working on that and processing a different way of dealing. Hard work that I know will serve me well. I have been reading and rereading all the suggestions on my thread and ill be prepared for the worst.


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I'm home now. One the way home I dropped into a lawyer's office. I cried and cried trying to relay my questions and give a short overview. I know my rights and have an idea of how I need to proceed if needed, to retain the house with the kids.
WH came home at 8:30 p.m. voice sounded friendly but came nowhere near me so no hug or kiss offered. He did finally ask a few questions on what I did while away. I was vague and upbeat. My anxiety is calmed so I hope I can sleep well in my own bed. The mbr issue was a non issue as he didn't asked to stay and I did not offer. He just came home and went straight to the spare room.

No further talk yet but it was Friday he said. Likely when both kids at work.
I'm honestly thinking about just turning the tables and doing it myself. But that would be a bad call unless I am done.

Soooo tired now. Good night friends! smile


Me54 WH48
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I endorse all that roist has shared with you.
He is a wise man that has walked a long and challenging journey.
Much wisdom he can provide.

Your sharing provides an appearance of high emotional and mental stress. Normal for what you are going through. You can do something for this. You can take back control and gather strength no matter how rough it feels now. I promise you.

What have you done to strengthen your emotional and mental states of mind.
This state is important on your path and much effort will be needed to strengthen it so you can follow much of the advice provided.
It is like any muscle in our body.
It requires care, nourishment and regular exercise.
You must start slowly and gently, but you will need to take action.
Are you meeting with an IC?
Have you met with an MD to determine if AD's would be beneficial?
Have you checked into meditation?
Attended church?
Pray?
DB coach?
Check out the Ted Talk by Guy Winch about emotional first aid.
There are many things one can do for building strength emotionally and mentally, but it will take work. Consistent work.

We are here to support you and share what has worked for us.
You will get through this.
(((Buxom)))


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WAW moves out 4/16/16
D final 6/1/2017

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Thank you so much SH!
I am very emotional and reactive. His comments and lack of contact while away threw me. Almost felt like he was doing 180.
I am doing most of what you suggest, IC, meds, sleep aids, DB coach, loads of reading (DR, solo partner, letting go meditations, on boundaries and I almost daily review articles from Cadet's list), and I talk with three really close friends whom I trust with my life.
Church has never been a part of my life, until we married, but then it was mostly a fabulous social group. WH grew up in a conservative Mennonite home but turned away from the church just prior to his MLC began. It was one of the first times.
I have tried to be consistent and I've been successful more when he's around and then I fall apart and stress while I'm going about my GAL. I know the changes are not solid and that it likely shows thru or reeks of upset and needy.
My mind is so hard to control right now, intrusive thots of everything from what have I done wrong (lately, I'm not blaming myself for A or MLC etc, just my inaction up to 6 weeks ago) . It just keeps getting worse, but I've read that is to be expected. My stress increases when it's a bad day and I work at getting off the rollercoaster. My desire to fix is quite engrained. I'm also scared. I never wanted a divorce and up til now thot he was my sole mate.

Thanks for all the advice and support!! Please drop by when you can as I'm feeling so alone.


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Originally Posted By: Buxom
I'm feeling so alone.

Your DB family is here to support you.
I totally understand the feeling of being alone
and it is something that I suggest you
really need to look closely at and FIX in yourself before
you enter into another relationship.
Even if that relationship is with your WAS.

Bomb drop is a shock to us and we find out that
although we are not to blame for our spouses crisis
their are many aspects of ourselves that we should also try to FIX.

Keep Posting


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Very strange conversation yesterday. I was so unemotional I was beginning to think, I'm done here. After all the tears and crap I felt very little. I wonder if I have been grieving the r loss and now I'm letting mr go? Even this morning I am almost relieved. Weird.


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Originally Posted By: Buxom
Very strange conversation yesterday. I was so unemotional I was beginning to think, I'm done here. After all the tears and crap I felt very little. I wonder if I have been grieving the r loss and now I'm letting mr go? Even this morning I am almost relieved. Weird.

This is part of the process.
Enjoy the calm, but do know the roller coaster ride is not over yet.
Use these moments to learn and gain clarity. These moments that the emotions are not running high, are the best times to gain true perspective.
Use it to your advantage. Prepare for more floods of irrational feelings, and stay focused on becoming the best you possible.
We are here to support you.
Enjoy the peace today. It is well needed.


Me 46 Former W 46
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WAW moves out 4/16/16
D final 6/1/2017

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Thanks SH. It has been a peaceful day. Interesting calm discussions that are short and simple. I am enjoying it. I also seem to have found my voice and I'm telling him things as they come up, like I will pick up D16 while u have coffee cos I don't want her exposed to OW. He said he didn't agree, I shrugged and said," she'll figure it out. Not sure u want that." He said, I can see that, thanks.

I know it won't last as there are already twists and turns that no one would or could have anticipated. Today I have been more in the moment than ages. Good sleep last night too.

Thanks to everyone's support. Colleen


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Hi,
Dropping by with a virtual hug. Hope that today will be a better day for you.


You can call me Dory/ Grl.

As a wise fish once sang,"Just keep swimming!"

It's no use to go back to yesterday because I was a different person then.
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Thank you Dory! Much appreciated.


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Good sleep and living in the moment.
Great things to do as you heal and build up that emotional and mental strength.

It is good to hear that you have had a good day.
Now let's make it 2 days.
You have a say and can control that. wink

Sleep well and may your dreams be calm, pleasant and with peace. sleep


Me 46 Former W 46
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Day two. Doing ok. Did lots of things outside and only cried in the shower.
Lawyer appt on Thursday. WH seems all relieved and relaxed and doing his own thing. I guess I am too.


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Hope you're doing ok, Buxom!


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Jruss, thanks for checking in. Hope u r doing ok.

Day seven. He's been gone from home for four days. Says he'll be home tomorrow. Been at his dad's helping out after a tornado went thru. Not sure what to do or say when he gets home. He's checked in by texting. We r both still hurting.


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WH arrived home today after five days away. He kept in touch by text this time and I got good morning and good night texts. Our talk eight days ago seems to have settled him. He's more even but still sensitive and easily withdraws. I can handle that.
He reached out to a counselling center to do some with of exploration regarding his childhood sexual abuse and the resulting masks and MLC. He asked me to walk this path with him as he explores his past and future. There are no guarantees he was quick to add but for now he doesn't want D. This is just one more layer of stuff we have to deal with on top of A, EA, lies, MLC, and the fragility of our marriage. He brought home resources and books from the first session yesterday and is eager to share the talk with me tomorrow.

I do want this to work for us, I'm just really low on patience and fortitude at the moment. I want the quick fix, good luck with that I know!!! Lol. I'm GAL ing and getting a bit better at detaching.
For example, he delayed his return home by one day and today is our 22nd anniversary. Well he did not get home until 5:00. I was getting irritated (due to expectations) and once I realized it, I worked on not being annoyed or confrontations when he got home. I'm sure he was expecting a hard time but I greeted him warmly and kept it all light and fun. Good laughs over supper and then he was gone to AA.
My mind is truly my worst enemy and I'm working at keeping my imagination under control!!


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Question.... what is your take on why WH does not respond to a kind gesture, as per DB coaching advice? I'm in the friending and listening stage. After his counseling session on Friday, (yes he did go!!)he has been chatty, asked for a cuddle and has shared some of the stuff with me. I sent him a Facebook message in the form of a YouTube song and there was no reply or acknowledgment. I am not taking it personally, I'm just curious about what it may mean. I'm trying to to over think it so I thought I'd ask for feedback thoughts so I don't have to go there in depth like I usually do. The 180 stuff is helpful to do on me. I do the opposite I would do for myself so this is an experiment for me.
Thots on my question?


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Maybe he didn't know it was a question / needing a response? He's perhaps also pretty overwhelmed with trying to get his act together and may need space to process things.


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Thanks Andrew. I appreciate the male views.
I guess everything is so backwards right now. In the past, that is long gone, he would say thanks or send a heart back. It's my insecurity showing and not wanting to mess up anymore than I have. I guess in part I'm still looking for the old guy and for validation, yet my intent was to convey some understanding of him thru the song. It was also sent to him for our anniversary. as I re-read this, it Looks like it was maybe more pursuing than I first thot?

I've reached another level of detachment this week that is hard to explain. I am able to greet him in a friendly manner when he comes home late and I'm not so reactive as per explanations and guidance from the solo partner book. He is more relaxed and also more talkative around me. It is a good turnaround following what DB coach advised. The 180 is for me and the DB is for us.


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Hi Buxom, yes I think your reflection on the song was good - it was pursuit. Particularly if the content was emotional...perhaps too much for him and he withdrew?

Try to watch out for your own neediness. Don't seek validation from him just now and learn to live more independently of him, validating yourself. Respond pleasantly when he initiates, but try to initiate little and have your own stuff going on. Are you making plans for you independently of him? It's a good idea I think, and it gives him a little space and time to process things. Plus it builds your confidence and brings some pleasure at a trying time.

Sounds like you are making progress with the detachment, and you've seen a different response from him - on a good track there I think.

smile xx


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Buxom -- re the video, you've been making progress by detaching, which gives him the space he needs to come toward you. The video, though, was pursuit, albeit pretty mild, and something that a well-functioning, adult human could certainly handle without it causing angst. That's not your husband, though, at least not right now, so he for whatever reason compels these people to do so felt motivated to pull back and not respond.

Keep detaching -- it really sounds like it is working for YOU, with a possible added benefit of helping your relationship.


Me: 46
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Soto, thanks for the thots. It was an emotional song by Jason mars, I won't give up. Cringing now. It talks about giving space etc. He has been more present when he is home and daily now asking to be held, starting convo and doing little things for me again. I could have blasted him for going to the movies last night instead of being home with me. I told him to go and you could hear the relief in his voice on the phone and he said it's not that I don't want to be with you... I said well you r off the hook, enjoy, see u later. I could have got upset and cried or been mad or cold shoulder when he got back but I didn't. I'm proud of me for that as I took care of my own emotions and did not put pressure him. I did a lot of journaling after that and was quite settled when he got home earlier than I thot. I so realize my neediness and hear it when he said sometimes he gets very anxious around me. I also realize that this behaviour could be cake eating. I am following the DB coaching tho along with many 180 aspects.The benefits of staying calm, not questioning him, not sharing my feelings and blaming, so far, has been more and deeper communication, physical closeness, and him saying he wants to share more of his take on his world as it's become. No details on that at present and we haven't yet spoken in detail about his counseling session. It seemed to be a good turning point. Thanks again Soto. Keep the insights coming, I'm in full life review mode and want to examine all aspects of who and what I've become.


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JRuss, thanks for the input and support. I see from reading other threads that detaching takes lots of time and there seems to be an ebb and flow to the process. I take comfort in that we all slip. And we all vacillate, so we rollercoaster just like the WS. I think we all do the best we can and make choices that can be confusing. I know I'm still confused each day. Today is no exception.

Journaling...
Last night he opened up a bit by saying he wanted to show me parts of his world and asked if I would like to know. He said it's nothing bad just things he thinks about and some of it has to do with sex. I listened and validated. It's been almost two months since we ML and I voiced that our methods were getting too routine to both of us and he agreed. There also has been way less sex over this past year due to the cancer treatments. I think I copped out and relied on his understanding. I think we only did it 5-6 times in the last 12 months. Yikes.
Anyway, I told him I welcomed whatever sharing he would like to do. He said not now as it was 11 pm. I agreed and said I hope he can continue to share when it feels safe to do so. He said he did! smile

I think this is where I am vulnerable. To have some good sharing and some relational movement, and I have to be careful not to back slide from my hard earned changes. Anyway, after our brief talk, (yay me for keeping it short), he asked for a cuddle and we ended up ML. I was a bit apprehensive at first but it was gentle and comfortable. Although we both made choices, it did kind of catch us off guard emotionally. He was the pursuer. I liked feeling close and did not feel bad when he left to go to his room. Before he left he kissed me and said ILY. When I did not respond right away, cos I was not sure what I really heard, I looked me in the eye and said it again a bit louder. I said ILY too. He smiled, said good night and left.
I'm anxious today much like Blu spoke of in her recent posts. You get what you want and it can still bring negative emotions. I hope I summed up her words ok. Now let's see if he backs off tonight. His first day back to work from holidays.

Man! I want to ask him so many questions! I know he lies and I can't trust what he says. So I don't ask and I let go of that need to know for the umpteenth time this week. I take my lead from him when he's here. Leave him alone and let him come to me or start convo. He did say yesterday that he didn't want to hurt me and he knows I'd like more time with him and wanted to assure me that it isn't that he doesn't want to spend time with, cos he does, and he made a good attempt to connect when he got home. I really had to check myself to not be the crabby wife he came home to after being out a few hours. He did check in with me by phone which I detailed in a previous post yesterday. Lots of little improvements yet I'm not trusting it. I try to enjoy for what it is and we have a few laughed a day so that feels good. I need to continue to get out of my head and developing problems or rehashing them.
Any feedback welcomed!!!


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The pattern is holding true, good day yesterday and withdrawn today.
I did get him to help me with the horses today since D16 was away. It was a good working together experience and short.


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Buxom -- I know that pattern well. I've gotten to where I expect the pullback, wait for it, and then acknowledge it (silently -- definitely not to WW!) when it shows up. It seems to help me, for whatever reason. Over time, I'm maybe seeing some lessening of the force of the pullback when it comes. Or maybe not -- too hard to be a mindreader or omniscient. Hang in there!


Me: 46
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Question/clarification... so he's in MLC and doing ea mostly by phone. WH rollercoastering, doing some touch and go, starting to do some reconnect with me (starting convo, sharing some personal feelings and insights, etc), then withdraws. I'm doing gal, being very consistent, upbeat, I don't text until he does and I'm mostly not responding immediately, still doing DB coach homework of friending and keeping it might, I end calls and convo, detaching, and many of the applicable 180. If we/i continue this way, is it just a holding pattern? Waiting for him to change or pull his head out of his a$$? Going on with my life yes but is this the thing, watch and wait when it comes to him? I get I only have my life and some influence over him. There cannot be a healthy R without two healthy or recovering people. So we don't rock the boat, meaning do no more harm? Do I live as if the miracle is happening and and we are becoming a unified couple again? I'm just confused. The lighthouse analogy would seem to be watch and wait but is there more? Thanks everyone!!

Journaling...
Woke a bit more relaxed today. That is until I hear WH in the other room dictating very quietly into his phone. I could only catch the odd word, regardless I ended up feeling anxious and wondering about who he was texting and what was the message. Not good detaching. Was it a trigger?
He later came to my room and started to chat and tell me a bit about his day.


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Jruss, thanks for your message. I guess we just have to be patient with their fog insanity. I'm reading the solo partner book and it's helpful with regard to lowering defensiveness and reactivity. I'm practicing daily. It's tiring to be on guard a good part of the time. Maybe that is hindering me?


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Wow, it's been a while since I checked in on your thead but things are moving into a better direction. I'm oh too familiar with the closeness then withdrawal the next day. Last time I went through this with my wayward this became a frequent pattern. The best advise is to remain consistent with your actions. What you have been doing has been working and he's started to come closer to you. So you remain consistent, try not to let it bother you too much, clearly what you have been doing has been working and he has began to make him soften.

Keep steady, he's in a fog and all over the place. So the best thing you can do is remain constant.


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Cherry, thanks for the sharing and validation. It's so difficult to remain calm and consistent when he's up and down, doing what he's gonna do when he's gotta do it. It feels so wrong to not confront, repeat boundaries , question him for details and then not wanting to trust his answers. Then I remember, this is about him, he's lost and doing what he can to make sense of his life/mlc and it's voids for him. It is good that he's coming around, however I get too attached to the positive outcome and then feel worse when he withdraws again. I see fear in his eyes when he's avoiding and I know he's scared. He has to confront it and fix himself. At least he's trying, I think.
It's also hard to give up the daily texts and calls throughout the day and hugs and kisses every time he left and entered the house. I start to wonder what do normal couples do? We were very affectionate and PT was the norm but I don't see stuff like that with friends of mine. I still miss it. It was our thing. He told me he missed the affection and holding.
So I guess I just have to come to the fact than he will flail around, do replay and I will have to keep the lighthouse operational.


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Interesting convo with WH this morning. Told me he would be late tonight as he'd go straight to AA. No surprise there. When he said he hadn't been there Wednesdays in a long while, I calmly challenged him by saying I thot he was gone most Wednesdays except for last week when he was away helping his dad. He calmly pulled out his phone and checked his calendar. He was able to account for them and I thanked him for the clarification. A sign he is trying??

He then mentioned a Tom Cochran concert Friday night and asked me to go. I said I was planning to go and it would be lovely to have us go together. I then ended the convo by saying I better let him go since he had to travel to the city for work today. He kissed me and said, have a good day love! smile

He's still pretty self absorbed as he doesn't often ask what I'm doing, but that's ok. I notice the little things he does do and when he does turn his attention to me. And I have the perspective of knowing he's in MLC.


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Ideas please... I blew it this morning and last night! WH Marci made plans for this concert tomorrow evening. Now his AA buds invited him out and again he was torn between them and me, just like the movies August 8 previously documented here. He spend the door hat I join them. I agreed and was calm and positive. He then looked anxious and I said so. He wondered if I'd be uncomfortable, I said "no, I've met most of them before." He said "maybe we should go and he would just go visit them in the audience", it's an outdoor lawnchair type event. I said no that abandons me, I'm fine joining in. By now I felt entrenched and still wanted to go with him. I know I've clubbed my head with many 2x4s already. I asked if OW would be part of the group, he said maybe. She's supposed to be ex OW but I think an EA continues, just my fears and intuition.
At my Alanon mtg this morning the ladies told me to back out, let it go and make other arrangements like go with another friend or do something else.
I had felt good about stating my needs and sticking to my funding the discussion last night but felt less certain this morning. To add insult to injury, I woke early and WH did too. I said good morning and asked if I could join him in his bed for a cuddle. I know, old behaviours and it was needy and clingy. Hurts just to type that.
I think I know the advice but let me have it anyway. I can take it.
I feel like my stomach is ripped open. I hate my pursuing and I hate feeling left out, left behind, and rejected. On the one hand I could show him how cool I am and fun on the other hand, he likely won't see it that way. I hate this!!


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Buxom - I didn't realize you were Canadian too!

I think that you made the right choice by going. AA is an important part of his life as are these people and if I understand it, it's a long road that he's on there and being part of that journey with him would be helpful.

The main piece of advice I would give you though is to "sparkle" when you're there. As hard as it may be, pretend you are having fun and get to know people. I find the best way to make small talk is to try to identify what the other person is interested in and let them drive doing validation practicing to keep them talking. Don't hover at H and do your best to ignore OW or pretend that she's the "good twin" without being rude. You may want to pre-set a deadline of when you want to leave and get H to agree to it and / or perhaps some sort of safe word that if "either" of you are getting uncomfortable you can have a plausible explanation for excusing yourself.


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Thanks Andrew! Yup Manitoban.
I'm starting to think this might be pursuing? I feel like I'm forcing the issue and I've been thinking about jamming out. So much should go wrong too. Like what if she falls all over him, then again she may not show up.... very confused. I agree I would have to sparkle. Can I do that? I'm kind of low right now.


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Reposting to correct errors... Ideas please... I blew it this morning and last night! WH and I made plans for this concert tomorrow evening. Now his AA buds invited him out to same concert and again he was torn between them and me, just like the movies August 8 previously documented here. He suggested that I join them. I agreed and was calm and positive. He then looked anxious (was he expecting me to say no?). He wondered if I'd be uncomfortable, I said "no, I've met most of them before." He said "maybe we should go together and he would just go visit them in the audience", it's an outdoor lawnchair type event. I said no that abandons me, I'm fine joining in. By now I felt entrenched and still wanted to go with him. I know I've clubbed my head with many 2x4s already... I asked if OW would be part of the group, he said maybe. She's supposed to be ex OW but I think an EA continues, just my fears and intuition.
At my Alanon mtg this morning the ladies told me to back out, let it go and make other arrangements like go with another friend or do something else.
I had felt good about stating my needs and sticking to my feelings in the discussion last night but felt less certain this morning. To add insult to injury, I woke early and WH did too. I said good morning and asked if I could join him in his bed for a cuddle. I know, old behaviours and it was needy and clingy. Hurts just to type that.
I think I know the advice but let me have it anyway. I can take it.

I feel like my stomach is ripped open. I hate my pursuing and I hate feeling left out, left behind, and rejected. On the one hand I could show him how cool I am and fun on the other hand, he likely won't see it that way. I hate this!!


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Journal... saw IC yesterday and cried more than ever. Thru it all. Realized that I am still living for and thru him. He was the love of my life and I never thot that would change and yet it has changed. I've changed too and not for the best parts of me. So this week I have to take better care of me, and figure out how I will live despite loss and chaos.

Tonight is the concert. WH spoke of our going today in an upbeat manner. Then our couple friends wanted to join us and he was happy like I was. I said we would all 've together the AA friends and all. He said good idea, I had almost expected him to want to separate the group's but this way maybe all will be happy and will definitely make it better and easier for me. When the plan changed I made sure we spoke on the phone and heard the responses.
Wish me luck tonight!


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Good luck Buxom!


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Originally Posted By: Buxom
Realized that I am still living for and thru him. He was the love of my life and I never thot that would change and yet it has changed. I've changed too and not for the best parts of me. So this week I have to take better care of me, and figure out how I will live despite loss and chaos.


OK I think you are close to figuring this out and I am just giving you a nudge.

Living your life through another person is not healthy.

Taking better care of YOU = A+++++

My.02


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Cadet, I know you are so right. It really does come thru layers of history. By the time I recognized I was living thru him he was well into first A. Then I kicked into fix it, nice girl mode ++. I let go of it while we were separated and then became dependent on him again thru the cancer treatments. So, no excuses here, I'm just recognizing how how hard it is to back off and not codepend.
What I wouldn't give to redo the last 10-18 months!! frown


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Cadet and anyone... Question, is it pursuing or R talking to ask for collaboration or question him when he brings up a topic? Is it ok during the convo only or can I bring up more questions later?
He has revealed to me, questions he is having with his sexuality, stemming from the early incest. He has asked for my support and to walk this path of exploration with him. I thanked him for trusting me with the sharing and said I would. He said he does trust me and is thankful for me. He was like a lost boy who couldn't look at me as he spoke. He has revealed parts of his issues to me, addictions, sexual,EA and I feel his struggle. There's been no talk of separation or divorce in two months. I guess that is encouraging.

Seriously tho, I am more confused on what to do than ever!

I begin to wonder about, what if I detach emotionally too much and we lose the connection for good? So much pain. How do you stand it??


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Buxom - I hate to say it - your questions may be worth investing in some professional help. This may be going way beyond the capabilities of a free online forum.


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U r right Andrew, and I do have a weekly session. I just wanted to float it here cos I seem to be a bit confused about the basics. I know what not to do but not What to do in place of it sometimes. Would be easier if we didn't live together.
You did give me a different perspective on this forum tho. Thx!


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I find weekends the worst cos he's around more and asks where I'm going , doing etc.


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Buxom - sending hugs to you across the miles. Or since we're Canadian - the kilometers.


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My suggestion is to listen, validate what he says and then just stay silent and listen some more.
No expectations.


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Thanks guys! Appreciate the thots. I'm surprised that I was able to keep expectations in check today and I had a good day, go figure. wink
I recognized today I cut him off in convo more than I thot. I also see that I hear him and work into a personal experience, and it seems to shut him down. Grr, I hate it, a bad habit I'm working on!

Today was the first day in a week I didn't want a drink. I don't drink but I still think of it when stressed. Trying to overcome so many things and be patient with WH.
Good night all! smile


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Did you drink lot then Buxom? Well done for handling it regardless. In tend to drink most nights. Dunno, functioning, but 3 - 4 glasses. Don't feel rough with it. Or were you drinking a lot? Was your H? Did your relationship or his, with drink add to your problems? Was it a symptom or cause of problem in your M?

Surfer.


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I know what you mean by the weekends being harder, the way that I see him asking about your whereabouts is a positive. Get him thinking of where is this beautiful lady going? Who is she seeing? Be a little mysterious and upbeat.

It's good that you are recognising where you go wrong in your interactions with him. This is something I'm also working on. Read up on validation, let him speak and just validate wherever possible.


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I'm so angry at WH tonight. Not sure if I should confront or save it!! We went to a weird al concert tonight all four of us, it had been planned for four months and pre BD. S18 drove us into the city and I watch WH text and sext others most of the way in and some during the concert!! frown Other than him being an a$$, is this part of his replay and I just accept it's him doing what he has to do?? To confront would set us back on the progress made so far. He would again be more ashamed and guilty and once again I would not be seen as a viable partner but the hitch that ruined the night. Yes, I could confront, but not while kids are with us. Is this something I just note, document and live with until he's ready to talk? Do I bring up at our next weekly meeting?? I'm too angry and hurt by this and his only comment to me tonight was how the massage messed up my hair. I was hurt and angry with that too. Even if I should confront I cannot stay calm right now!
What is good DB ing right now?


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Surfer and cherry, thanks for the messages.
Surfer, I was a mild drinker but know it could have quickly taken over in my life. I always had to watch it, alcoholic parents and all. WH started to Dr I k more heavily during A1 as a way of coping with his double life. He said it numbed the pain. Now after rehab 14 months ago he hasn't touched it. In proud of him and said so again last week. Tonight, he is angry too and he'd drink if he could but he won't. It did damage our M as he was a mean drunk and he avoided talking about issues by opting out of life for booze and the skanks. He's still not used to dealing with all the emotions without chemical numbing. Maybe the sexting does that now? When we got home I asked him if he was angry, he said frustrated and I asked what was creating the frustration. He flashed a get back and said, this is where u leave me alone. I said ok and walked off. He hollered after me, you wanted go zesty and I'm being go set. I said yes I did and I'm leaving you alone. I may be mind reading but we were all subdued in the car and I think he thot we weren't appreciative. Either that or he felt my angry silence, even tho I tried to get convo going with the kids .

Cherry,thanks for the pep talk. I will re-read the validation and detachment tonight and tomorrow. It was hard to walk away from him when he told me to leave him alone twenty mins ago, but it was the best thing. Five mins ago he told me good night gave me a quick kiss then asked about my plans for tomorrow morning. I plan to sleep in since I'm still very sore from the accident yesterday. The. Bruising is starting to show all down my left side. The helmet saved my head but the neck pain is still bad. Please let me know your take on the sexting I outlined earlier tonight. Thank you!!! Hope things are settling down for you. Thinking about you and hoping for peace for you and S and bump. Take care! Col


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Buxom,

That is not only wrong and inappropriate it is unfair to text, sext in your company. It must really hurt. Seems you are showing your anger a bit at the moment. Are you still very connected, seems like you are not detached if you are going to concerts?

Surfer.


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I'm so sorry to hear that he did that. And to do it in front of you is ridiculously inappropriate and disrespectful. I personally think you need to put a boundary in place, but make sure you are willing to follow through with it.

I know you feel like you are making good progress, he obviously wants your company and he is giving you kisses and so on. But he is majorly disrespecting you and cake eating. Think it through, and think what you would say or what boundaries you could put in place. But I wouldn't just accept it and allow him to cake eat IMO


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Surfer, this concert was a family outing planned while things were really good and prior to A2. It was for the kids. I sat in the back seat of the car there and back and we sat apart at the concert. He thinks this is all secret and frankly I wish I didn't know as it makes it harder to try and believe that there is progress.
I don't even know what the boundary consequence could be??


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Thanks cherry. With all you have going on, i Appreciate you stopping in.
Yes, disrespectful but isn't that what all of them are doing with affairs and ea? I thot were to wait and let them do what need to do so they find d their way? and we have to detach. Doesn't confronting further convince them of their position with the questions? To queation, does that not set me up as the bitch to stay away from?
So confused!

Last edited by Cadet; 08/16/16 09:07 AM. Reason: Start a new thread message

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In my understanding, their is a difference to db-Ing and being a doormat. If you'd found it through snooping then maybe I would be a case of leave him to it. But to do it right in front of you just isn't right imo. I may not be the one to ask on this, I tend to see red, but I just see it being done right in front of your eyes isn't right. Hopefully some more people will come along to give you some more advise. But I just see it is a chance to throw some boundaries down.


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Cherry, honestly, I don't even know how to start and when to do it. I'm not feeling I could right now as I feel more fragile.

I started a different thread. See you there?? smile

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2697246#Post2697246

Last edited by Cadet; 08/16/16 03:11 PM. Reason: Link

Me54 WH48
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Separated 10/14 - 06/15
BD1 02/14
BD2 05/16
BD3 08/21/16 and began drinking again
Working on me and liking me again


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