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I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that your wife's lack of self-worth is making it difficult for her to do the thing you need her to do--pursue you.

This is something I struggle with, because although I have self-worth in many areas, I realize I have zero sexual confidence. And how does one fix that as a woman in her forties?

Not only that, but women of our generation have a lot of cultural pressure to not pursue. H and I were talking about this just the other day when I used the phrase "never been kissed" and he pointed out that men never use that phrase to describe themselves.

Even if your wife has done the work to realize you need her to pursue you, she might not have the skills to do that.

Probably sounds crazy to a man.


Me: 44
H: 44
Kids: 20, 16, 16, and 10
Together/Married: 22 years
H announced he was emotionally detached and considering D: 4/4/16
H announced he is going to try to stay and reconnect: 5/1/16
Joined: Dec 2015
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Thanks MrBond and Rose.

MrBond, you are right. I AM acting like a WAS because I am in the process of becoming one. Not intentionally. That's just where I've ended up. I agree that most people here would die to be in the position I'm in; I got my W back. Now I'm wondering if I want her back. But even though I feel like I've got 1 foot out the door sometimes, I'm still trying (forcing myself) to do the things I know I have to do to rekindle the R.
I've planned a date for tonight. I'm having flowers delivered to our dinner table. I'm trying to speak ALL 5 love languages (not just her primary). I'm going to MC. I'm praying. I'm doing everything I know to do to try and bring back the feeling of being IN love w her.

Some new things in the past 24 hours I've discovered. My W has done a good job (to my knowledge) over the past 6-7 weeks of not looking at OM's training group on FB. But she's been back at it this week. Why? I don't know. There is a big race in Australia today and she could be looking to see what the athletes are posting there. Or she could be stalking OM and his W.
She signed up for SnapChat. For those of you that don't know, that is a messaging app that has all its messages disappear after they are sent/received. It can be used as a "cheaters" app. She sent friend requests to 2 local, female training buddies and both of them know about the A and both are heavily involved with OM's training group. One is OM's biz partner. Both are supportive of our M and attempts to reconcile. Neither would support the A. I feel confident about that.
And finally, my W emailed herself an online article about M women keeping the maiden name. My W has always felt a need to maintain her independence and she has fought to maintain it. The only problem is that I've never sought to keep it from her. I've supported everything she's wanted to do and accomplish in life. We've maintained separate bank accounts. She makes more money than me (and that doesn't bother me in the least.) This "need" for independence is the one thing that I know has been an invisible wedge between us this whole time. I am not a sexist. Far from it. But I probably am traditional. Her snap chat user name includes her first initial, ALL of her maiden name, and part of our last name (she probably hit the limit for the max number of characters and that's why its only part of our last name). We've been M 20 year, she has an A, and NOW she wants to start using her maiden name? WTF is that!?!?!


Me: 48 y/o
W: 47 y/o
Together: > 20 yrs
BD: Dec '15, then S
2nd BD: Mar '16, then I filed for D
April '16: started piecing
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Secondly, I would prefer her to figure out what she needs to be doing. If she is able to figure it out on her own, then that means she's spent a LOT of time thinking about it.


Your statement here reminds me of how women want men to just "know" how to fulfill their desires.......without being told what those desires are.

((Lim)), if it had not been for this board, I don't think I would have had a clue to how my H felt or what he needed from me........b/c he would not tell me. It's like playing Blind Man's Bluff, you are "it" and not really wanting to play.

Piecing is such a fragile stage, and you want proof that she sincerely desires you as a man. Not for the life you provide in the M, but just you.

If the MC, or no other source, has relayed how she has to step up and do some heavy lifting now..........can you really expect her to just know it? Sure, it may seem very obvious to you.......just logical, right? Maybe not so much to her, especially if you were always the one pursuing in the MR. If that was always the pattern, and she has not been given a map to follow in this process.........she could be misreading what she sees in you.

Have you relayed the message that you still desire her? When either of you approach the other, is the A standing there between you? Does she see it in your eyes? If all she can see is the destruction she caused, she may see hopelessness. She needs to see hope, just as you do. She will look for it in your eyes.

As the betrayer, it is very difficult to desire, and/or pursue, if she sees judgement/self-righteousness in face of the betrayed. She rejected you, so now.......is it your turn to reject her? Fair or unfair, human nature is what it is.

Have you forgiven her for the A? Okay, but have you really forgiven her for the act of betrayal? From what I have learned from you LBH'S, it is the betrayal that cuts the deepest into your soul.

Each of you have a difficult path, and neither should think their partner's job is easier.

I don't know if you have ever watched the old way women would make quilts for their beds. They would take remnants of fabric and hand stitch those little pieces together, big enough to cover the bed. But the job was not completed. That was just the top part stitched together. Then it was laid on a solid backing, usually with some type of filler between the two layers. They would hand stitch through those layers........to combine into one whole quilt. In other words, it wasn't just a seam across the middle to hold it together. It was painstakingly slow, and then the finality was hemming the edges. The completed quilt would often qualify as art, b/c of the beauty, precision and design. Whether it was art, or not, it spoke of the woman's patience and dedication to complete such a task. Whenever I was given a hand stitched quilt, I saw every little stitch with appreciation for the one who made it. And you know what I noticed whenever I closely examined the stitches? Every stitch may not be exactly like the other one. There is usually a hint of imperfection. That is the distinstion in in hand stitching. But that makes it unique! And to think of the time that's invested into the making of a beautiful quilt! The factory made quilt is just not the same, b/c it lacks the human personal work.

I often remember the times I watched the quilting process, and think of how repairing our MR are similar. We take the remnants of our M and stitch it together. Sometimes we are pricked by the needle as we stitch through the layers, but it is all part of the process. And......we can't zip it through a sewing machine and expect the same results. Piecing our marriages back together has to have hand stitching the remnants to have a whole relationship again.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Thanks Sandi... I find this useful for myself as well.

Best of luck LiM!

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Originally Posted By: sandi2
[quote]
Have you forgiven her for the A? Okay, but have you really forgiven her for the act of betrayal? From what I have learned from you LBH'S, it is the betrayal that cuts the deepest into your soul.


Sandi,

And again, wisdom is flowing freely from your keyboard.
I have forgiven my W for the A. But I only just now realized that I have NOT forgiven her for the betrayal. THAT is exactly what is at the root of the anger swirling around in my head. The lies, deceit and betrayal; THAT is what makes me angry and I now understand that I have not forgiven for that. It didn't occur to me that it was something separate. But I see that it is. At least for me.

I guess being able to forgive for the betrayal is something that I will have to work on. Why is that separate from the act of the A I wonder? I found it "easy" to forgive for the A but I know as I sit here typing this that I'm pissed as hell about the betrayal and I don't know how to forgive her for that.

Does she see the pain of the A in my eyes? Does it stand between us? Yes, absolutely. Is she afraid of being rejected now by me? Yes, probably. Have I told her that I don't know if I can ever get over this? Sadly, yes. Does this cause her to feel hopeless? Probably. Can I expect her to be able to heal us and herself it this is what I give her? Probably not.

I'm going to have to tell her, and discuss w MC, what exactly I need. I HAVE expected her to figure out what I need (after all, I figured out what she needed in a H) but I guess that isn't fair. I need to step up to the plate, tell her what I need and then see if she does it.


Me: 48 y/o
W: 47 y/o
Together: > 20 yrs
BD: Dec '15, then S
2nd BD: Mar '16, then I filed for D
April '16: started piecing
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 567
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Originally Posted By: sandi2
[quote]
If the MC, or no other source, has relayed how she has to step up and do some heavy lifting now..........can you really expect her to just know it? Sure, it may seem very obvious to you.......just logical, right? Maybe not so much to her, especially if you were always the one pursuing in the MR. If that was always the pattern, and she has not been given a map to follow in this process.........she could be misreading what she sees in you.


I guess I'm lost here. What SHOULD I be expecting my W to be doing? Is it different in every relationship based on what I perceive my needs to be? Are there more universal things (NC)? I feel very much out of place right now; like I don't have a plan. With pre piecing DB, I had a very clear path to follow. I had 37 rules to adhere to. But what about now?
Here's what I have done.

1. NC. She's not had any contact with OM. She has continued to speak with his W via text and FB off and on over these months. Since getting back on FB, she has visited OM's FB training group page as recent as yesterday.
2. Transparency plan. I initially had an iPod touch that I would occasionally check up on. I gave that back to her in July when she complained about having no privacy and about me potentially reading private conversations with her friends that have nothing to do with our issues. I gave it back because I was mad and felt like I didn't care anymore.

Aside from that, there is not much I asked of her. Mainly because I didn't know what else to ask. As for what I've been doing, I've continued to work on my issues. I've worked on speaking ALL 5 love languages to her and made sure to pay attention to her primary love language. We've gone to MC and IC. I've been participating in her activities with her. I've taken an interest in her affairs (family, work, etc).

I very much get the feeling that she just wants me to stop hurting and to get on with building a new life. But the pain doesn't just go away. It lingers and will continue to linger. It impairs my ability to get close to her and to reconnect with her.


Me: 48 y/o
W: 47 y/o
Together: > 20 yrs
BD: Dec '15, then S
2nd BD: Mar '16, then I filed for D
April '16: started piecing
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Hi LiM,

great discussion developing on your thread. Sandi is pouring gold in every post she posts.

If I may, I'd like to offer my 2 cents. I think that you trying to speak ALL love languages to your wife is a mistake, think of it as if someone would speak a mixture of English, Spanish, Russian, German and Greek to you. You would be utterly clueless what they were trying to convey.

And perhaps it would not hurt to have a couple of individual IC sessions possibly with the same C that you do MC with. Perhaps he will equip you with the tools to help you get over the issues.

Stay strong brother...

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So I sat down yesterday and had a talk with my W about her FB activities. I had decided that I could be angry, and convey that anger, or I could tell her how it makes me feel when she does stuff like that. I took the latter approach.
It was stil not well received. ANYTHING that I suggest to her is going to immediately be met with resentment and that makes it hard for me to confront her when I know she's not doing what she should be doing. But I manned up and did it anyways. It went as expected (not well received). And we didn't even get around to talking about the SnapChat stuff. Our talk got cut short because we had to deal with some teenager issues. But now 24 hours later, she has told me that she has deactivated her FB and SnapChat accounts. I didn't ask her to do either of those. She says that it is hard for her to accept any suggestion or advice from me but she knows that it best for her to be off of those services. I agree and I'm glad that she got to that decision on her own. We have MC tomorrow and I'm sure we'll discuss these things.


Me: 48 y/o
W: 47 y/o
Together: > 20 yrs
BD: Dec '15, then S
2nd BD: Mar '16, then I filed for D
April '16: started piecing
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 253
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That is good news! I'd be doing cartwheels!


Me54 WH48
S18 D16
M 22 T 24
EA-PA-EA 2011-2015
Separated 10/14 - 06/15
BD1 02/14
BD2 05/16
BD3 08/21/16 and began drinking again
Working on me and liking me again


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LiM:

I haven't posted in quite a while, but I've been following your sitch because it mirrors mine.

I have the same emotions as you do. Most people would envy my situation, a heavily remorseful spouse that would do anything to make the marriage work. I think I need to create my own thread on here about piecing as well.

The last MC session we had, I nearly ended our marriage. I've changed so much since my wife's affair. I'm becoming the man she wants now - in these last 7 months, I've switched jobs, lost a ton of weight, changed my hair style, gained a ton of muscle, and through therapy I've become a changed human being.

Yet, I've found through this improvement that I may now have different feelings about my wife. She still works with OM - something which I strongly still object to, yet if she were to quit, I would likely find something else to complain about. She also had snap chat and what's app on her old phone - I know what they were there for. I have thoughts that OM wasn't the only one. She just got caught and cleaned up her act.

The other night we went out and she was probably the hottest woman in the club - and all I could do is look at her as "damaged goods".

When we kiss, 7 months later, I wonder how her and OM kissed. When we're being sexually active, I wonder if they were in this or that position. Is it going away? Yes, but not fast enough for my tastes.

She's been clean and transparent since day one. The only thing I found was a quick google and facebook search of OM - I found out by snooping thru her phone one night, something I haven't done in months. She says he closed his FB account as soon as I busted them, for fear of me outing him. She wanted to see if it was still up. She owned it, felt awful, brought it up in MC and admitted she still needs to work on her boundaries. In the grand scheme of things, it was a slip up.

My wife doesn't know that I know every little detail about him, who his wife is, her phone number, where she works. I want to confront her so bad - something I should've done the second I discovered the affair. I kept quiet, and I think that's been one of the biggest mistakes I've made.

I'm blabbing here, LiM - but I feel the need to let you know I have the same exact feelings you do. There are days I'm so incredibly happy with her and we do things that I've always wanted to do, such as breakfasts at nice little hole in the walls, quiet dinners alone or with other couples. People who know we went through this are looking at us as recovering and are rooting for us. But sometimes it feels so fake, like I'm just doing all this to put on this act....and in the end, will it all be worth it...is there some other shoe waiting to drop? Will some other skeleton come forward? Or worse yet, will I eventually tire of the recovery and just say forget it, we tried, lets part?

Or will we eventually move on from her affair and in 10 years look back on this as a huge wake up call.

I just don't know.


Me: 52
Her: 48
2D 26 & 16
M: 25 years (together 30)
EA/discovered by accident Valentines day 2016
Admitted SOME physical but no IC.
We know that's a lie.
Status - tryin to R
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