Third time's a charm, I hope.

[Wonka]

J,

Ah...we cross-posted and I saw your latest post.

You wrote this draft response:

"If you wish that it would go any other way, there's no reason it has to go in the direction of a divorce. We can pay attention to this now, we can address this now. We can continue with a separation to give each other time and space, we can go to counseling to work on making sure these reoccurring issues do not keep happening. Everyone who is currently way too involved in our lives will eventually either forget or no longer be a part of our lives, but what you are proposing to do is permanent and affects the rest of our daily lives."

I can feel pressure just from reading it. It feels smothering. You are like a desperate woman clinging to H's pants.

When working with newbies, I counsel them to follow the general email/text scripts:

-KISS (Keep It Short and Simple)
-Clear and concise
-Ignore "white noise" for they will speak in absolutes
-Leave your emotions out of it
-Do not try to counter their points/arguments for it will make them dig into their heels
-It is not about who's right or wrong. Respect their POV (Point of View) for it is how they see it/feel it right now. Doesn't mean it will always be this way

Your H feels the need to step away for now because of the intense exchanges and interactions you have had lately. Allow him the space for it is good for both of you. You need the space too, sweetie.

If you are able, try and see if you can schedule a session with a DB Coach.

[bodhi]

Thank you for opening up to me...it cannot be easy for you at all and I appreciate this. I can see that we both made mistakes and probably didn't handle things very well. Sure, there are some things that I would do differently in my approach. Just to make you aware here--I do not want a divorce, but will not stand in your way. I agree that we are amazing people.

I like this a lot. I'll wait for more input. I've unfortunately made so many mistakes in the past couple of weeks that I'm afraid to make moves at all. I think I was under-exaggerating when I said I had been implementing the 180 with hiccups, the hiccups being the exaggeration. I don't know why I haven't been able to control my emotions...we've been separated twice before and I swear I thought I learned my lesson. I swore I was going to make things better. But here I am. The good news is, in the previous situations I made a lot of mistakes and it still worked out in the end - until it didn't of course, since I'm back here!

[Cristy]

Hello jsxca,

I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.

It is easy to be emotional when you have so many thoughts and feelings going through your head! Take a deep breath. What were you like when the two of you met? Focus all of your time, effort and energy into being the best jsxca that only a fool would leave.

Thank you Wonka for the vote of confidence regarding working with a DB Coach!

You are at a very fragile point in this relationship and it would be extremely helpful to know what your next move should be. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.

Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004

[bodhi]

Thanks Cristy. Unfortunately, it's just not in the cards for me financially to do that. I did pick up the DB book, actually the Divorce Remedy one which from what I gather is a bit more updated.

I think unfortunately this time he is gone though. After all, this is our third separation in a year. I wish I would have learned from my past mistakes and followed through on letting go of my anger and started the relationship fresh.

I can't undo what's been done though, and the good thing is that I'm going to use that knowledge to better myself whether the marriage ends or not. I'm just hoping to god it wasn't a lesson that had to be learned the hardest way ever, in divorce.

[Wonka]

J,

Pllllft....forget all that self-defeating talk of divorce. That is not a good mindset to have if you truly want to save the M. Let me tell you a secret here: Many, MANY success stories have had the WAS speak in absolutes that "divorce" will happen and never will get back together with the LBS. Guess what?! Those DBers worked butts off in DBing and are happily reconciled.

Chin up. Have faith that this will all work out.

Do your homework provided by Cadet and please do read the Divorce Remedy book as it is the second, more updated edition to the original Divorce Busting book.

[bodhi]

J,

Pllllft....forget all that self-defeating talk of divorce. That is not a good mindset to have if you truly want to save the M.

Thank you for the advice, and I know you are right. I am a big believer in positivity, and am trying so hard to keep faith. It is just so hard when I have nothing to go on. I know I'm not saying anything that anyone in this position has not thought before.

One thing that bothers me and turns my stomach: we have no children, we live separately already, the divorce agreement is in place and signed and delivered on my end. This leaves no reason for him to contact me.

I know the logical answer is that if he wants to contact me, he will find a reason. He is so stubborn, though, and never likes to show emotion or be the first to "give in," so to speak. The first separation, we only reconciled because I reached out to him in a phone call after months of barely any contact and asked if we could see each other after he softened a little bit in his text communication. I don't know what would have happened if I had been more passive. I know that action went against everything this community encourages, but it just so happened to work that time.

I know I'm thinking too far ahead, but what if he doesn't contact me at all, for weeks or months, other than to tell me the papers are filed? Obviously not tonight or within the coming weeks, but do I reach out at all? I can't imagine a scenario where it would be warranted, if I'm following the DB rules.

I know everyone feels their situation is unique, but I truly have the feeling that mine is in the sense that I know my H will not ever follow through with filing regardless if it's what he wants. To him, doing so just means taking a day off work without pay and going through the hassle of figuring it out. Even if divorce is something he truly wants, I know he would wait for me to just do it for him to avoid the hassle.

I'm at a loss.

[bodhi]

I found something that resonated so closely with me on this forum, not just from my H but for me too, something we are both guilty of. I'd like to send it to him and I'd like to see if as a community this is a good or terrible idea to share with him. Apologies as I'm on mobile and can't remember who said this, but it's so accurate and messed up and beautiful and...accurate. To share or not to share?

[quoute]
There were two people, you and your W. Let's pretend there's a game being played. You have 10 cards you can choose from, A low, 10 high. Each time either of you interact with each other you have to decide to play a card symbolizing how you treat each other. A 10 means you choose to be extremely loving, selfless, generous, noble, and operate from your highest spiritual self. A 5 means you're having an average day, you're on auto pilot, you may do some things for your mate but aren't really engaged. A 3 is negative, critical, impatient. Below that is the red zone where it becomes destructive, controlling, and potentially abusive.

In the beginning each of you plays a 10 card. You both feel good about the love you're feeling, and feel good about the love you're getting. Somehow that's hard to maintain with life getting in the way. Eventually you notice the cards she's playing are 5s and 6s. This is frustrating. You came to really like 10s. In fact, when she was playing 10 cards you felt really good. When she plays 5s and 6s you feel dissatisfied. You get frustrated that she won't play the 10s like she used to.

Disappointment leads to frustration. Frustration leads to hurt. Hurt leads to anger. Anger that isn't addressed builds into resentment. Next thing you know, you don't feel loving. You don't feel like playing 10s much either. In fact, you start to resent even having to play 5s and 6s yourself. It's not fair! Why should she get everything she wants and needs and for her to neglect you with a series of 5s? You can't be happy with 5s, and you would be with 10s, so really it's her failure to do her job that is the cause for your unhappiness. You start to play lower and lower cards. Partly because you are so resentful you can't stand the thought of giving her what she wants while you're not getting what you want. Partly to try to "get her attention", or show her that something is wrong. And partly because you just don't have the loving feelings that generate bigger loving numbers.

You NEED big numbers to be happy. She's failing. You must force her to play bigger numbers. There's only one strategy left. Time to play some 2s and A's. Put the hammer down. Make it clear this is unacceptable. Either you give me what I want and deserve or I will make things absolutely unbearable. Verbal abuse. Withholding affection. Critical comments. Bullying. Whatever.

***OK, STOP THE GAME A MINUTE***

I described how it felt to play this game. If someone asked "what type of guy are you, are you the kind of guy that plays A's or 10's or what?", you'd respond "I'm a GREAT guy, I'll play 10s or at least pretty big cards most of the time". If someone asked "why did you play so many A's and 2's the last couple of years? That looked borderline abusive", you'd reply "WHOA! That's NOT ME. That's not who I am! I only played those cards because SHE left me no choice! She was playing 3's and 4's and not loving me the way I need to be loved! If she had done HER JOB right I would've been HAPPY to respond with 7s, 9s, and a 10 now and then!"

So the whole issue in your mind was the way she treated you, and how it caused you to respond. You don't identify with you behavior because you see it as a reflection of her failure.

BUT THERE ARE SOME TRUTHS
-YOU ARE THE CARDS YOU CHOOSE TO PLAY. If you play A's and 2's, you are abusive. Doesn't matter why. If you kill someone you're a murderer. If you rob a bank you're a bank robber. And when you choose to treat someone poorly, then you are a BAD H. PERIOD.

-IT'S NOT HER JOB TO PLAY 10S AND MAKE YOU HAPPY. Yes, 10s feel great. It's a nice treat in life to experience. But that's not life. Life isn't a series of sexual adventures, passionate date nights, back rubs, and sharing poetry. Why? I don't know. We build a tolerance to things and quickly expect them and take them for granted. Heck, even if she kept playing 10s they would start to feel like 7s to you quickly as you got used to it. Eventually people get to a level they can maintain (such as 5s through 8s with an occasional 10) and it starts to feel like a disappointment. AND IF YOU USED THE 10S TO MAKE YOURSELF FEEL GOOD ABOUT YOUR LIFE YOU WILL SUDDENLY FEEL DISCONTENT AND FEEL YOUR PARTNER IS TO BLAME. SHE'S NOT. You have to be happy on your own, and take what you get as a bonus.

-ONLY YOU GET TO DECIDE WHAT CARDS YOU PLAY. It doesn't matter if she plays 10s or 1s. *YOU* decide each day what type of person you are, how you want to respond. It's YOUR choice, not hers. She can play a 3 and you can STILL CHOOSE to respond with a 10.

CONCLUSION-

So, the funny part about all of this is that SHE FEELS THE SAME WAY. She thinks you didn't play the cards she needed to feel happy. She excuses all of her poor behavior as the "natural" reaction to being treated so poorly from you. She thinks what you did is far worse. This extends all the way to the "cheating". In her mind she would've never cheated had you not emotionally abused her for years, and it was only because of your actions that she was forced to take refuge in someone else to preserve herself. Then she remembered what a 10 felt like and decided that you were just an Ahole that played 1s-3s, and she can't have that in her life, and she found someone that plays 10s, so see ya later.

Now you're not playing the game anymore. There's no more interaction. SO YOU'RE NOT DEALING WITH THE DIFFICULTY OF BEING DISAPPOINTED OR RESENTFUL. You start to find it easier to act like a fine and upstanding citizen. This further proves to you that it must've been her driving you crazy. WRONG. It's easier to conduct yourself well on your own. You're not better! If you were in a relationship again tomorrow you'd be back on the downward spiral again, and you'd be dropping 2's and A's on people in a controlling way until they left you as well. Why? Because you haven't learned another way yet!

For you to judge her on the cards she was playing and excuse your cards because they were the only possible reaction is not going to get you anywhere.

Step one is acknowledging the truths above, taking ownership for your behavior REGARDLESS of the context, and deciding what type of man you want to be. Step two is forgiving her for the cards she's played because now you see how she's done nothing you haven't also done. Step three is learning how to take responsibility for your own happiness so you don't resent your future partner for not being able to chemically maintain euphoria in your life. And step four is learning coping mechanisms so that you are able to maintain responses between 5-10 even when you feel hurt, threatened, or rejected.
[/quote]

[roist]

I love that card game analogy. So simple yet so true. We need to be able to determine how we interaction/react regardless of how our spouses play the game. It is within our control, though early on this does not seem possible.

Don't get pulled into questioning if they deserve to be treated well. This is about how you want to BE/ACT and is independent of the other person. An important part of this is how you treat yourself too. You need to ensure you treat yourself with respect and accept no less from others.

Our spouses not loving us is hurtful but is not disrespectful in itself.They are not capable of that right now. Disrespect should not be accepted whether the R is loving or not. The lbs needs to realise they are independent of each other.

Thanks for repasting this analogy. I had not seen it in a while and it rings true.

Best wishes. I hope you follow the great wisdom and insight offered by wonka.

[bodhi]

Is there any way to send a message to a moderator? I just realized a silly but serious error I made in my choice of username that makes me very searchable by H.

[NYGal]

Hit the Notify button.