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#2691526 07/20/16 06:00 AM
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Here is my old post for reference:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2691231&page=1

Knowing we have been separated for 5 months. Knowing that she told me she had stopped the affair, but wished to "remain in her own space to figure things out". Knowing that I found out 2 weeks ago the affair continues and she had been lying to me. Knowing that my plan was to keep reading the books, keep doing the 180, keep DB'ing and changing my approach. Knowing that I am not holding up well psychologically to pretending I am still in the dark.

This is my direct question: What is a good course for me to follow? Should I tell her I know about the affair still and am not willing to tolerate the lies - she will deny, angry, lie all over again. Or do I keep GAL with this knowledge and hope for the best (I don't like this option much, but I feel like from the reading that this is what it indicates).

Beat me up, ask me questions, whatever, I want to tell her I know, and I want to do so in a way that also tells her I am still open to the marriage, but it can't happen with him around...and this will be the second time I've had to say that.


"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies.
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I won't tell you what you should do about the A. I will just say that the last time you confronted her she moved out. Since she has lied. Will a second confrontation change anything for the better? I will let others advise here.

However what you have to do for YOU is the same regardless of her. The work and actions are the same. Yes GAL, yes continue 180s. Yes continue reading self help books.Yes continue to improve. You will like yourself better and so maybe eventually she will too.

First up you need to stop this eating you up. Easy to say. Hard to do. The internet is full of helpful resources on cbt and mindfulness that could help. But apart from confronting what else does this knowledge encourage you to do? I imagine you want less interaction would be a normal reaction. You can do that without a big declaration or confrontation.

If you have to ( and you don't..... it is a choice) I would not state you are still willing to work on M. Simply state you are aware that A is still active and that you don't appreciate this. Then back off completely.Dont try to control and don't pursue. Back off and focus on what you have to do anyway.

Do something new and fun this weekend. Let us know what you choose.

Best wishes


R 25 years
M 14 years
S11 & S13
Working on it alone since Oct 2014
M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years)
Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr.
Next R chat Aug'17
Still together
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It would be helpful if you stuck to one thread until you have 100 posts. Also, if you will answer our questions, that would help us know how to advise you.

Quote:
This is my direct question: What is a good course for me to follow? Should I tell her I know about the affair still and am not willing to tolerate the lies - she will deny, angry, lie all over again. Or do I keep GAL with this knowledge and hope for the best (I don't like this option much, but I feel like from the reading that this is what it indicates).


This seems to be the nail that has you hung up, so I will try to answer.....as long as you understand we have been given very little information.

If it bugs you so much that she doesn't know that you are aware of the affair......then tell her!! Just be aware that it will not solve one little thing! She is not going to end her affair just b/c you know about it. If an affair is a deal breaker, then tell her you will not be in an open M. But if you tell her, then you better be able to back it up. You basically remove yourself from her life, until she decides she wants to be honest with you and to work on the M (not some lame excuse of working on herself). Working on herself is a smoke screen for "continuing my affair".

You have to think.....if you are not willing to tolerate her lies and infidelity, then what can you do about it? The two of you are separated and living in two separate houses, right? Okay, then stop having conversations with her. Don't have back & forth texting, etc. Stop visiting with her and taking her out. Stop doing things together as "a family". That action shows her that you want no part of her life if she's going to be in an affair and/or lie to you.

You don't like the option of GAL and hoping for the best? Then don't. What else do you purpose? How can you move forward? Will it take divorce? Tell us what it is you want. I can tell you this much, whatever you decide....you had better include GAL, if you ever want to improve your life and move forward.

Quote:
I want to tell her I know, and I want to do so in a way that also tells her I am still open to the marriage, but it can't happen with him around...and this will be the second time I've had to say that.


You can't have it both ways. Do not tell her you want to still be open to M. Your words mean nothing to her. Only your actions will be noticed. And, let me tell you something about a WW......you cannot tell her things like you are still open to the M. It doesn't work that way. She has to think she is losing you. If she believes you will hang around while she continues her affair....she will not respect you and she will not desire you. You have to be unavailable to her while she's in an affair.

Have you finished reading your book?

Have you read the homework Cadet gave you?


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Roist,

This was a very valuable and gracious gift you just gave me. Thank you. If I decide to acknowledge this with her, I will take your short and sweet advice.

I would like to hear others comment on what you said as I find it profound, to quote you:

"I won't tell you what you should do about the A. I will just say that the last time you confronted her she moved out. Since she has lied. Will a second confrontation change anything for the better? I will let others advise here."


"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies.
BD: Feb '16
D: Mar '17
Piecing: Putting the self back together was my piecing.
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Sandi,

Thank you. I responded to Roist and then jumped over to your Sandi's reflections post and read the whole thing. That was discovered when doing Cadet's homework. I apologize for starting a new thread - I did not think I was by including the link, which I thought I had seen others do.

To answer your questions hopefully: My hang up was that when reading the DB book, I did not feel or see how it really applied to the separated/continuing affair/lying scenario I am in. I was feeling confused which lead me here. When I read your reflections, I felt less confused. While I had many of the 180 things in play, I had not done anything of consequence to her. I did not because we have a 4 year old. I thought that family days would be best for him. I thought going out with her would be best for us. It only occured to me a few days ago, and more immediately today, that this is not the case for any party. I have not and will not stop GAL, my post was misleading due to my confusion.
I do very much hope for the best and I am continuing to improve myself, which she is noticing. I think though that since she is noticing I have become impatient about her affair. I also recall rule number 32, but that I am clearly forgetting rule number 33. I am still confused as to the signs of improvement, but realize the open expression of reconciling and ending the affair on her part may be the only one to look for. Your opinion, everyone's opinion here matters to me and I thank you greatly. Please let me know if I have understood you correctly.


"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies.
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Damn. I'm in an open marriage. I never said it out loud. I never thought of it like that until I just read it.


"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies.
BD: Feb '16
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Originally Posted By: CT1118
Damn. I'm in an open marriage. I never said it out loud. I never thought of it like that until I just read it.


$ucks don't it? Me too. That's why boundaries, and most importantly their enforcement, are essential. I'm not going to sit here and tell you how easy it is, because I'm taking baby steps. What I CAN tell you is when I've been able to show consequences for her stepping over those boundaries, there have been positive results.


Me: 35 W: 32
S: 4
T: 6 M: 4
Physical Separation official: 5/21
Currently: DR/DBing, Focusing on me and son

Cheating on a good person is like throwing away a diamond and picking up a rock.
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Sandi,

Re-reading your post to be sure I answer all the questions.

No, I have not finished the DB in entirety. I have read chapters 4-9 and am going back to 1-3 and 10.

Yes, I have ordered Divorce Remedy and it should arrive today.

Yes, I have worked my way through Cadets homework and will now go back to make sure I have covered all of it tonight since you asked and I want to be sure.

No, I do not believe divorce is the answer or the consequence I desire. Yes, I believe what you wrote about a WW in your two large posts which were part of the homework. I admit confusion to some aspects and I admit to asking the wrong questions earlier - I put the cart before the horse it seems. As I found this site and these books this deep into my sitch, I am unclear about how to impress consequence without such an action as telling her I know she is still lying vs keeping the 180's moving forward and following the contact rules contained therein. The 180's remain the consequence I suppose.

I believe both of you so far in that telling her will not make a difference to her and that she will continue the affair regardless.


"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies.
BD: Feb '16
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Originally Posted By: RSG
Originally Posted By: CT1118
Damn. I'm in an open marriage. I never said it out loud. I never thought of it like that until I just read it.


$ucks don't it? Me too. That's why boundaries, and most importantly their enforcement, are essential. I'm not going to sit here and tell you how easy it is, because I'm taking baby steps. What I CAN tell you is when I've been able to show consequences for her stepping over those boundaries, there have been positive results.

Please share some examples.



"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies.
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When W left, she treated me poorly and talked down to me. Since I have stood up for myself, she has toned down her speech and treats me with greater respect than she has in months. By standing up for myself I don't mean anger (which I've been guilty of) but responding to something ugly by saying "I don't appreciate being talked to that way" and if it continues be prepared to say something like I need to go I'll talk to you tomorrow.

Take charge of things. I used to say "whatever's good for you" and let her make most of the choices. Now, I take charge and give her minimal options. This shows you're not just trying to make her happy, you're the decision maker.

If she asks you to do something, don't always say yes. You're busy, you have things to do, you don't feel like it. She's not your W, so you don't have to go over the top making her feel good. She can do things herself, it's what she wanted, right!? I'm getting better about this, it makes them think you're scarce. They want what is more difficult to get through to. Always there? No worries. Why won't he answer? Why won't he help? What's he doing? He was never like this before? It's gets em thinking....


Me: 35 W: 32
S: 4
T: 6 M: 4
Physical Separation official: 5/21
Currently: DR/DBing, Focusing on me and son

Cheating on a good person is like throwing away a diamond and picking up a rock.
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Originally Posted By: CT1118
I did not because we have a 4 year old. I thought that family days would be best for him. I thought going out with her would be best for us.


What's best is to set goals and ensure you are working toward them. I would start the book from the beginning. The process for you is the same regardless of what she is doing.

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Great advice man. My WW never spoke down to me, its where I failed in the 180's every time. She would cry for help and boom. I decided to stop that, and haven't done it again, but its only been one week. Part of my confusion leading to my post today about whether to put a line in the sand or not. Its been one of the harder days for me, but I'm really glad I came here to talk instead of just gut reacting - which I know goes against the DB program.
I also began a prescription for my ADHD last week and in between does is when I really get quite unsure of myself. This is where I was earlier.
None of this is like me in real life. I am a confident, assertive, successful man. But in my head, my WW sitch rises and falls, just like Sandi2 predicted in one of her threads. Fortunately, I have never begged of my WW, or cried on her, or why don't you love me. I have however spoken that with actions like fixing the shower and repairing her car. If I learned anything today - that ain't right and I am done with it.


"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies.
BD: Feb '16
D: Mar '17
Piecing: Putting the self back together was my piecing.
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darknes,

I set goals from the start and have actually been meeting them. I left a few out though and need to or have just recently added them.

Goals I have met:
loose 25 lbs, quit drugs and binge drinking(which was in place of drugs), dress better, begin writing again (I publish articles), volunteer work, improve my time with my son, take up a new activity (I chose to ride my skateboard again, which I hadn't), talk to random people (I'm introverted, so this was a challenge, get to an IC and get help for my ADHD.

Goals I need to add:
stick to the 180's like religion
continue with GAL above always
seek positive ways to deal with my pain over the WW
finish the books


"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies.
BD: Feb '16
D: Mar '17
Piecing: Putting the self back together was my piecing.
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Way to meet those goals CT118!!! I also need to find positive ways to deal with my pain...I have good days and bad!! smile Hang in there!!!


W:42 M:48
T:9 yrs M:1yr
BD: Feb 2016
EA Confirmed: Feb 2016/PA July 2016
D: Feb 2017

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Thanks,mi think I can hang in there and you can too. It's hard many days


"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies.
BD: Feb '16
D: Mar '17
Piecing: Putting the self back together was my piecing.
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So a question for any WW on this site or anyone who was successful with DB. What finally made you/them give up the affair? What was the realization that did it? I am very curious to know. I just read a whole bunch of posts where stuff just didn't work out.


"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies.
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I have several threads about the wayward wife. If you are interested, start with this one:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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A quote from you:
"The first loss the wayward should experience is her H. When everything is laid out and she starts with the usual BS of not seeing a future with him, etc., he should start immediately in pulling away. He needs to do it to the degree she feels his absence in her everyday life. And it is important that the H does not make any grand announcements about his intentions. He doesn't talk. He acts. He doesn't tell her what he's doing, he just does it."

So when I posted all this yesterday and was asking about telling her I know the affair continues and I need to stop the day to day stuff from her - I was looking to be tough, but I believe it hit the "grand announcement" you speak of. So yesterday afternoon I began the 180 in conversation with being polite, using Wonka's assertive techniques, but not giving too much info. I was told I was being weird and asked whats wrong each time. I responded that I feel great and nothing's wrong. This morning she called to ask about sharing visitation for the week with our son. She was trying to wrangle a full weekend out of me and I stood firm and told her I was happy with the current arrangement. I was told again that something was wrong with me and I have seemed off or weird lately. Then she said she had to go before I could (I was getting ready too, but she beat me to it). Is that a sign I may be doing it correctly - that it is confusing her - or am I doing it wrong by her thinking I'm weird?


"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies.
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I'll add some thoughts below:

I set goals from the start and have actually been meeting them. I left a few out though and need to or have just recently added them.

Goals I have met:
loose 25 lbs Great job. Are you finished or is there more? Whats next?
uit drugs and binge drinking(which was in place of drugs) Also, awesome. Congrats on this!
dress better OK. Thats good.
begin writing again (I publish articles) So your goal was to begin? Do you have a target for how much/what you are going to write?
volunteer work Again, good start. But do you have actual measurable goals for this? Time? Frequency? Involvement?
improve my time with my son And what does this mean? How will you do this?
take up a new activity (I chose to ride my skateboard again, which I hadn't) Alright. Again, is there some plan? some frequency or something you can establish to measure this?
talk to random people (I'm introverted, so this was a challenge I might be being a broken record, but again, what is your actual goal? Does ssaying "thank you" to the cashier count?
get to an IC and get help for my ADHD. Great to hear it if youve done this. Do you have more future goals?


So your GAL looks good. And it looks like youve identified some personality traits you wish to improve. For example - you introvertedness and your reliance on drugs. Do you think there are some other personality traits you can work towards improving? What kind of person do you see yourself becoming? What kinds of things will make and keep you happy without regards to your W?

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All fair questions darkness.

1. The weight - I was not too overweight, but at the max of the spectrum and I still looked good, but the weight was from beer and lack of exercise. I am 41 and my goal is college graduation weight: 192-198, I am at 203 right now and also working on muscle definition.
2. Drugs - many here discuss facing what you did to contribute to a separation. I have a chronic headache condition that Oxy was prescribed for. For many years I could go on/off it at will according to my headache cycle. Until I couldn't. I hid the pills from her for 1.5 years and when I realized she was having an affair, I knew right away they had to go and I threw them into the garbage disposal. Want a big challenge in life - quit Oxy cold turkey. Sure enough, she ID'd that as a primary reason for the demise which built up to her terrible and selfish decision (she could have helped me, but that the past now).
3. Dress better - My wardrobe was outdated. My WW and I are both very good looking people, but I always dressed like a slacker, it bothered her. When she left, I bought new clothes to see what would happen in my life in the outside world. I noticed I felt better, strangers and friends complimented me, other men at work began taking me more seriously - all positive so I'm keeping it up, it makes ME feel better.
4. Writing - goals was to publish one or two articles this summer. Both got rejected, but not a full rejection. I was asked to tweak them which I am currently doing. Also writing myself a journal to stay sane.
5. Volunteer - goal was to put in 50 hours this summer. It has been met.
6. When you are on Oxy, you slip so far into yourself that the rest of the world annoys you. Shamefully and sadly I ignored my W and my son. No more. I am doing this by talking with him, taking an interest in his interest, and really smiling at the little way he makes me happy.
7. New activity - yes plan was to do something recreational and fun for myself at least once a week. Been achieving that. Will continue that.
8. Talk to random people - when you are introverted and have ADHD, the idea of speaking to new people at a business conference, approaching a woman at a bar and just talking, or speaking to a fellow airplane passenger are all very intimidating to the point it does not happen. I began actively putting myself in situations to do things like this (I do not go to bars often and am not there to hook up, but I did have to try to approach women a few times just to get over the fear, while I didnt seek to take them home the confidence boost was great). Now after months of this, I am really pretty good at. I intend to continue, it feels good.
9. IC/ADHD - yes, goals are to continue council and to learn ways to deal with my thoughts which will not force me to stay on medication. ADHD is for life, I dont want the medicine to be.
10. Great question. First GAL goal is to continue what I am doing above. Next one is that I am finishing my masters degree by next spring. Along w that is to improve time management while doing the degree (this was a big one - poor time+stress from grad school+ drug abuse= my contribution to WW). I see myself maintaining my status as role model man. I am successful professionally, I am in great shape and look good, I am getting healthier mentally. I want to be comfortable alone, as an individual and I am getting there. All my life I have had a GF or a W, never a long period w/out. I am going to keep being me on my own. If the WW wants back in, great I will work w/her, if not I am still going to be great.


"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies.
BD: Feb '16
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Piecing: Putting the self back together was my piecing.
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As a remark to 180 and to say to you all that when Sandi2 spoke about the women testing the 180was true here is what happened today. I have been doing 180 for maybe two days now. I posted above about how WW was telling me I was being weird and was I ok. She did that this morning when were discussing our kid as I said above. I felt good about it, but did wonder if it was right. Well, it was, but I screwed it up I think. Around noon I got an email from her absolutely gushing about how inspiring I am as a man, how I gave her an amazing child, how I am a great dad, how she did not know what our future would be together, but that she thanks me for all of the support over the years. Then she ended by telling me she did not deserve me. I must say, I did believe her, but had rule 32 in my head. I stared at it and thought about what MWD says in DB - do something different. Even 2 weeks ago I would have thanked for the kind words at a minimum, and maybe even commented, but I didn't because that is what she would have expected. All I said was "Not saying anything is the best response to this". Which I see now is a response, but I was thinking hey, this will be unexpected and she won't reply, she will have to think on it. She wrote back immediately, "yup, that is very perceptive". Sheeeet. I feel like I lost that one.


"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies.
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Maybe I didn't, not sure...WW called right has she got off work, which coincides with when I pick our child up from preschool on the days I have him. She calls to speak with him, which I have no problem with. She began conversing with me, but I continued with the excerpt from number 15:
"15. ...be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative."

She said "I'm sorry to keep asking you this but is something, wrong? I feel like you have been so different with me the past few days." I said nothing is wrong, I feel great. She paused and asked if I was sure. I said yes, I feel great, I am looking forward to a night with our son. She said ok with a clear question mark and I said ok I will talk to you later. Her goodbye and then hang up.

I definately left her confused. I was briefly tempted to text some BS, but stopped myself by reminding myself how confused she has left me. Is it supposed to feel like this? Reading my posts from today, am I actually doing this right, half right, no where close?


"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies.
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Piecing: Putting the self back together was my piecing.
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I've written a great deal hear and you all have been very helpful today. Would welcome more feedback.


"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies.
BD: Feb '16
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Piecing: Putting the self back together was my piecing.
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Originally Posted By: CT1118


She said "I'm sorry to keep asking you this but is something, wrong? I feel like you have been so different with me the past few days." I said nothing is wrong, I feel great. She paused and asked if I was sure. I said yes, I feel great, I am looking forward to a night with our son. She said ok with a clear question mark and I said ok I will talk to you later. Her goodbye and then hang up.

I definately left her confused. I was briefly tempted to text some BS, but stopped myself by reminding myself how confused she has left me. Is it supposed to feel like this? Reading my posts from today, am I actually doing this right, half right, no where close?


CT, your doing fine, it takes a little bit of time to stop sounding like your reading from a script and apply to the rules to words that sound natural for you. The trick is to sound indifferent, not like your saying words that someone is whispering in your ear.. It's not easy, and that's why many times saying less is more.

I think your doing well in providing info, even quoting the rule your following, it helps remember the guidelines (it shows the writer in you)... Just keep posting, things will come up that you will get advice on, but a lot of people don't respond when your doing the right thing.


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"Just keep posting, things will come up that you will get advice on, but a lot of people don't respond when your doing the right thing. " - Coconut

Thank you Coconut, that meant a lot. I am sure most here can relate when I say it's hard to know what the right thing is these days. All I know is I am doing something different. FWIW, this morning she called me (I have not initiated 1st contact since this whole thing began unless it was about S4, yet she calls me everyday)and I followed #15 again as well as Wonka's validation techniques. I listened to her, threw in some "I understand"'s & "wow, you sound like you are on the right path" then I ended the convo before she wanted to. I got the are you sure you're ok again. Stay on target CT1118!









I think the WW usually affairs "down".


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On a different note, I was reading Tofbrks story and Sandi2 - you answered something I had been wondering about for a while and did not want to ask it at risk of sounding egotistical, which I am not.

You told Tofbrks: "I think the WW usually affairs "down".

This was something I could not reconcile in my head. When I discovered the affair in Feb, it unfortunately took me reading her texts. After the shock of seeing her call him "baby" and sending him photos of sexy panties, I began to read his comments. They were dumb, stuff like talking about eating coco puffs with chocolate milk type of dumb. Also, The guy is 9 years young than her (make him 32), short, a redneck (something she always claimed to dislike) and he is already bald (no offense, but bald at 32 is not something most me want). He is overweight by a good margin. And he owns guns, which is something my wife has always been vehemently against. When my WW spoke of him she called him "entertainment" "a dumb kid" "someone I am using" "he means nothing". As she works with him (he is a subordinate employee by rank, not under her supervision)I have heard her say "he has no ambition" "he lacks the wherewithal to do his job" and "he has no capacity for planning".

That said I am tall, dark toned skin, in great physical shape, a full head of hair have 11 professional certifications, finishing a master's degree, was just inducted into an honor society for academic excellence, hold a director level position (WW does too), and have won multiple awards/bonuses enough times to call it regularl. I truly am not saying to in the interest of conceit, but rather to better understand, I can scarcely go places w/out someone commenting on my looks. My WW is the same way - all of the above - amazing looking, highly professional, well dressed at all times, has so many awards on her office wall you can't see the paint. My WW and I used to go to Miami regularly and people would literally stop us in the street or shout at us from cars about how great we looked together.

This can read like a very vain post, but that is not what I intended. I think when a lot of people separate it is common to wonder if AP looks better than they do -"what do they have that I don't" I understood a while back that this guy gave my WW the emotional support and recognition that I was not, but...

Anyway, your post Sandi2 made me think, if the WW usually afairs down, this seems like a control measure. Meaning the WW is better able to control both the AP (who realizes they struck gold and will ego stroke her as much as possible) and the LBS who is emotionally destroyed. At least it seems to me it does in my case. Before I knew about the A, my WW would often complain she did not feel like she was in control of her life. She would say that she liked to stay at work because she felt in control there. When I realized after A discovery how in control she was of AP (telling him when/where they could meet, text, etc.) it did not rationalize it, but made a small bit sense. And yes, I know it is not always about looks, it is about communication which I clearly sucked at with my WW before the S. This is not a source single attraction, just a piece of the story. I would love to hear thoughts on this.


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Hey CT,

I belive my WW has affaired down as well. Her A partner is also someone from work, he's 6 years older, has major back problems, no money, and no real future for him. I myself am much like you, professional job, lots of awards and recognition over the years.

My wife at one point even said she is so conflicted because on the one hand she has a prince (referring to me) whith stability, a future, and the history we have together. On the othe hand she has a pauper (referring to OM) with no future, no money, no security, but she won't stop seeing him.

I also agree that the communication is a driving force in her keeping the A going. I've been listening to the things that she says about how her AP tells her exactly what he wants, is more confident in what he tells her and doesn't try to control her. All things I'm trying to work on. I defintely lost my confidence in communicating with her over the years.

I don't know if she'll ever come back to the MR, but definitely feel in myself that I'm finding that confidence again. I have a long ways to go, but making progress one day at a time.


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lfm -

Man, first off it felt good to see (wife has backtracked) at your signature - I hope it remains sir. For a place called DB, there sure seems to be a fair share of D here.

Irony in your answer to me. I too got the complaint that her roles as mother/spouse/job/HM controlled her. Here comes the irony, sounds like both our WW are in an A they feel in control of. Right? What they are not in control of is themselves. I've read enough psych and M pages/books/articles in the past 6 months to understand the A is an addiction. This explains why your WW can admit she has no future with her A and why mine told me she did, but lied about it - I was addicted to OXY for two years. I lied to myself, my friends, and my family about it the entire time. It was only once I realized the pain my absence had caused to my S4 and WW that I realized what I had done to myself. I had to get there on my own before I could rebuild.
If you have read my entire post, you will see that my main struggle is what to do so that my WW can understand she is approaching bottom.
And yes, you are correct sir, MR has a huge blinking ? on it, but my self confidence does not. I just want to be sure I don't backslide on it.


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Hey,

for what its worth, I just had my pulse checked...email that just said "smile for the day" with a picture of our S4. No reply from me yet. I will wait a while and it will be brief.


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Originally Posted By: CT1118
Hey,

for what its worth, I just had my pulse checked...email that just said "smile for the day" with a picture of our S4. No reply from me yet. I will wait a while and it will be brief.


Why do you need to reply at all?

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Originally Posted By: darknes


Why do you need to reply at all?


You're making me better, you're making me better.


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So, WW just informed me she has accepted a new position at new company. I knew she was interviewing and it was the right move for her career at this point. I openly believed she needed to do this for her career, but also in part her old company made miserable and that was part of our problems before the A started. The new job is a slight promotion, an boatload more income, more responsibility, but better benefits and all that. Anyway,telling you her AP currently works for her old company, will this move potentially make the sitch better or worse? Granted GAL & 180 continue either way. But I can see two scenarios: one she will have to be more involved in work, will not see the AP on the regular as she does now, and might slowly start to pull away from him. Or she is no longer under the guise of being terminated by her employer if the A with a subordinate rank employee is discovered (like she is now where they both work) and they can be free to act as they like. Lastly, will it make any freaking difference at all?


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Impossible to predict what impact it will have between her and OM but, as you say, either way doesn't really matter since it doesn't change what you need to do smile


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Originally Posted By: CT1118
Anyway,telling you her AP currently works for her old company, will this move potentially make the sitch better or worse?


Yes smile

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Funny how in parallel our situations seem to be CT, my WW is also looking for a new job that would take her from part time to full time. She's had some interviews, but no offers yet. This would put her in a job away from the OM as well.

I don't think it will change anything with her A, but certainly makes it a little bit easier if she does decide to break things off with him as she won't have to worry about anything with the former employee (assuming that comes to pass).

I just have to continue to be patient, do my thing and wait and see if she ever sees the light that I am trying to become.


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Thanks EDF, lfm, & Darknes. Clearly I really hope it does. She just called, we had to speak on some S4 matters, but the conversation switched to her new job acceptance. I backslid from my #15 slightly, not far, but I have to admit it to you all so that I see it said out loud and understand it myself. I was far from doing backflips and used Wonka's validation the entire time "you must be really proud of yourself for making this decision" Again, understanding that fine line between the 180 and allowable conversation to be polite and supportive can be a bit grey. And, while I meant what I said, it is the best move for her career (read as hopefully if nothing else it will benefit my S4 too), I did have ulterior horses in the race. Thanks everyone. I am sure I will check back in later.

PS, reading DR book - great - I feel way more application than the DB.


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OK, this is an awkward one. I was just informed (earlier tonight) that WW is going to TX for 5 days to see her family (mother passed 15+ years ago, father/brother & his family still alive) and that she is taking S4. And then I was told that my father in law bought a tix so that I could come along. As part of the WW lies, I know FIL was told WW and I separated, but not the reasons why (I've stated above WW has been lying to friends/me about the A continuing, but family was not told about A to start with - took about 1 minute for me to figure that out on FB when we separated - they just think we are having "trouble").

Time for exposure has not arrived IMO. I have known this man for 22 years and known him as a father figure when my own was not available (part of what made WW close when we were teens was her F'kd up family taking me in from my F'kd up family - please keep in mind WW & I dated for 2 years as teens, broke up, dated in early 20's and broke up, lost contact for 10 years and M'ed at 35 years old when we found each other again - now both 41).

Given my current sitch I am highly inclined to not attend, but I really want to see this man. And if WW and I decline further in our R (which I am honestly not certain of yet) I will not see him for some time (lets be real, S4 is his grandson and as MWD states, w/a C the married couple is in it for life, D/M regardless).

The trip is in 2.5 weeks. I am 29 days from 6 months of knowing A was real & calling out the A to my W who then 1 day later became WW, 8 months from when I traced it to PA, and 10 months from when I traced an EA.

I tentatively accepted and I did so thinking his is my chance to say goodbye in person to a family I have known all my life, even if I won't directly say goodbye I would do so in my heart.
Initial thought was to decline and state I will call FIL and tell him honestly why I cannot attend, but as I said above, WW was not honest w her father (he would advocate for me), but exposure does not feel like the correct choice now. I also feel like I want to suck it up and go - understand, for no other reason than to say goodbye to my FIL and WW's family as they love me and I have love for them.
This is some very confusing Sh!t to happen across tonight as my 180's seem to have been working otherwise this week.

Dmnit. Advice...


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If your goal is to reconcile, I think going is taking you farther away.

This is a giant slice of cake you're letting her eat. She's with OM now - it isn't your job to go to her family events to assuage her guilt and keep up appearances.

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Originally Posted By: darknes
If your goal is to reconcile, I think going is taking you farther away.

This is a giant slice of cake you're letting her eat. She's with OM now - it isn't your job to go to her family events to assuage her guilt and keep up appearances.


How do I 180 that one? What do I say to her father who does not know? What do I tell her w/out telling her that I know the affair continues?


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Something happened in me today. I would guess it has been happening and maybe just arrived today. While reading MWD's books, the 180's, this site I had been pondering the concept of "do something different". Clearly above, I tired that with communication and it was mostly working, but was just beginning. And I am not sure if what I am experiencing today is normal, is final, or just part of the ride. But last night I thought about my views of the A and my WW and I asked myself what could I do different?
I have been so angry. I have been so very very angry at WW, at the AP, at myself. I have been so obsessed in thinking about WW, AP, and myself. Its done me no good. My GAL's have been working, but sometimes they are just momentarily distracting. I've seen friends, but they leave or I do at some point. I've spent hours at work, ducking into my office to read this site, some other sites, or books on this subject of A and get myself educated. And I work with my IC weekly. That stuff is all different behavior from me compared to where I was 6 months ago, but it was my reply to someone's post earlier this week that gave me my answer. I realized I had to forgive.

So I woke up this morning and I felt a little different about myself. I realized I was not obsessively thinking of WW and the A. I thought to myself, "I accept all of this is happening and no matter what I do for myself and how I speak with WW, I have no control over her decisions. But I accept control for myself and I will not be angry about this any more. I will protect my boundaries, my space, and my heart from here forward". I really felt better thinking that. I showered, dressed, cleaned, played guitar, read this site, and otherwise began my day.

So at late morning I had to drive out to WW's place and drop off some money which was needed for S4 to participate in a pre-K next week (she has S4 on Saturdays). I knew WW and I would talk, but today I was not planning what I would say, how I would 180, what I would give etc. I was going in unrehearsed and felt fine about that. Decided to trust myself enough to know who I am, when I am. I got there and she had not really seen me on a weekend in the past few weeks since the 4th. We said hello and then WW stepped back and look at me. She mentioned how nice my shirt was, she liked my new watch, and how absolutely cute I looked. I simply said "thank you". Then we spoke about the school thing the money was for and she stopped in mid-sentence and said "seriously, you look great. how come you did not dress this well when we were together?" All I did was stare at her, not sure for how long, not with anger, not even sure if I was offering an expression other than my resting face. Then she apologized and began something about "I didn't mean.." and I just held up my hand as if to say don't bother.

Thing is, in that moment, I realized I didn't care anymore. I don't mean like an "I'm sick of this BS" don't care, I don't mean like an "I'm going to ignore this and let it roll off my back" don't care, I mean I felt nothing. I felt nothing and that felt great. Peculiar, but great. I'm still feeling this way now as I write. I don't care anymore and for me that means if we R again one day it's fine, if MR or ML again one day its fine, if we D then that's what happens. I finally feel free of my fear and my anger. I must have hit the bottom of my ability to withstand my emotions on this. Not really sure, but while I still don't want a D, if that's where this leads, I know now I am better prepared to handle it emotionally.

The woman I have loved for over 22 years still exists. She and I had a great R together, we had a loving M together, we made this beautiful S4 together. But her & I got lost somewhere. I found out where I was, buried under a pile of self-imposed struggle and I dug myself out, which took time. I think now I know where my loving W went. She is somewhere inside my WW. She shows up sometimes when I watch her play with our son and they smile honestly at each other, but then she gets sucked back into the WW if left out in the open for too long. The person I have been dealing with is not the woman I have always loved and most likely always will have some for. No, the person I have been dealing with is a WW and I won't let thoughts of that WW hurt me anymore. I forgive myself for what I have done and I how I have behaved. I have put in a great deal of work to atone for my faults and flaws. And today, I began to forgive the woman I fell in love with who is floating around somewhere in that WW, she must be hurting and really lonely in there. I hope that lovely woman wake's up when she hears the scrambling of a WW who realizes that this LBS turned the lights on and that a WW is just not very attractive to him anymore.
Not sure where this goes for me, but today I feel good. Thanks everyone for your brutal truths, frank words, and honest commentary - its all in loving kindness.


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Still feeling good (see post above this). Just penned a letter stating that I am going grey. Maybe to give, maybe to memorize and say, maybe not to use at all. I'm not sure. Cadet said give it 6 months on another post. I interpreted that to mean before you say "ok, not waiting anymore". I confirmed the 6 months theory with a few other marriage sites and a some psychology items that say give a WH 6 weeks and a WW 6 months to a year. Statistically, the average A lasts 6 months and usually no longer than 2 years. I can do 6 months, if I see something, I set a new time.

I hit 5 months two days ago.


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So, I just briefed through some of these other posts. While reading one, an MLC item came up. It occurred to me that I had not explored MLC. I went to a few websites on women's MLC's. My WW had many of the signs listed. Ex, a few months before the A began she began talking out of nowhere about wanting to fish, wanting to rock climb (she never did these things), She claimed she couldn't handle the "roles" of marriage/motherhood, etc. She wanted to take a break, be an individual again. All this was months before the A began. The fact that her A is with a younger man. The fact that she says she does not know how she feels about us to the next day saying she knows we will be back together again one day. These things were all listed on a few of the MLC sites I looked up.
At this point as I said above, I am feeling pretty over it, but would an MLC versus just a straight up A change the game any? I can't see how I would need to stop doing what I am doing since it makes me feel better.


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WW came over today to drop off S4. I followed with 180. I was polite, but short with my answers. Did not get the you are weird or whats wrong stuff this time. She tried to give me a lecture about putting sun screen on our son. In the past I would have made a big deal about knowing how to do it an telling her it would be ok. Instead I just handed WW the sunscreen and said "I can see that this bothers you. Would you be more comfortable if you did this before leaving?" She screened him up while I went to the other room for a minute.
Then she tried to tell me she got a bill for me on the furniture. WW never managed the bills in the M, I did. I told her I could understand the confusion, but the bill was hers for all of the new furniture she had bought herself when she and I started the S. No fight, WW just realized she had mismanaged a few monetary things for herself.

She was leaving in her car and I was out walking the dog. She shouted a flirty statement at me and drove off. I just nodded. Its one thing to tell people to detach, but it is another to get there. I feel so good about what awakened in me yesterday. I have a long way to go, but finally I am not trying to feel confident about myself within the sitch. I am feeling confident about myself regardless of it.


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I felt great all yesterday and all of today until now. I thought all was good, until a minute ago. Sunday nights are when WW and A have historically gotten together. Im gonna watch a movie with my S4 and try to hang onto the moment. Someone tell me to stay strong.


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Stay strong!! I think your plan sounds great! Do something to take your mind off of things.

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CT1118,

The moment you can take or leave your WW, without a sense of huge loss, is a wonderful moment.

Just realize that this process is not anywhere near linear. You will cycle back. Be prepared for it.

Feelings are comfortable or uncomfortable. Not good or bad. Understand that your response is your responsibility. The action she takes is not your responsibility. Her spew, her bad actions, her begging you to be co-dependent, her future mistakes, her blaming you for 100% of her problems... all of it her hers. You just control your response.

Anger is a secondary emotion - hurt is first. Anger is normal to have - expressing it is how so many of us go wrong, and how so many get themselves in trouble and in jail. frown

You will get angry again about the affair. Count on it. You will get mad about OM - there will be triggers that make these feelings flow up into you like Old Faithful. Just let them come and go, and understand them for what they are. Stick to your beliefs. Those don't change. Emotions change by the minute. And those that go chasing after emotions (most, if not all WW's) are bound to find themselves down cheeseless tunnels.

Have faith! Get sleep. Eat well. And live for another day. The fight isn't over, but you caring about what someone does is.


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Originally Posted By: trumpet
CT1118,

The moment you can take or leave your WW, without a sense of huge loss, is a wonderful moment.

Just realize that this process is not anywhere near linear. You will cycle back. Be prepared for it.

Feelings are comfortable or uncomfortable. Not good or bad. Understand that your response is your responsibility. The action she takes is not your responsibility. Her spew, her bad actions, her begging you to be co-dependent, her future mistakes, her blaming you for 100% of her problems... all of it her hers. You just control your response.

Anger is a secondary emotion - hurt is first. Anger is normal to have - expressing it is how so many of us go wrong, and how so many get themselves in trouble and in jail. frown

You will get angry again about the affair. Count on it. You will get mad about OM - there will be triggers that make these feelings flow up into you like Old Faithful. Just let them come and go, and understand them for what they are. Stick to your beliefs. Those don't change. Emotions change by the minute. And those that go chasing after emotions (most, if not all WW's) are bound to find themselves down cheeseless tunnels.

Have faith! Get sleep. Eat well. And live for another day. The fight isn't over, but you caring about what someone does is.


Thank you. I just logged back in and this helped me very much. I was not thinking of her as much as I was mad at myself for feeling like a chump. I know it's not true. It's not being a chump to love someone and want to put in a fight for it. I had never thought of it the way you put it, she did beg me to be co-dependent. I never thought of it that way. My anger at the OM comes and goes, I know WW is lying to him too. WW kicked all of her family off her FB so the could not see what she does, so she lies to them as well. Addiction.
WW starts her new job 1st week of Aug. I am trying to hang in there and see how that affects her A. Some here think new job will help my cause, some don't. Trying to hang in there before I pull one of the last resort measures and play the "I'm through with you" card. It really won't be a play at that point, more like a statement of fact.


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The "I'm through with you" card is the actions she sees from you. Words will mean nothing. Remember, her lips are moving, she's lying, so words mean very little to her. Telling her that is actually counterproductive.

Speak softly. Your big stick is the actions you show her.

After reading your sitch, I see you continuing to enable her behavior by using the excuse your texts and calls concern your S. He's doing fine. I don't call the EX-WW kid related things unless they're in the ER. All other things I can handle. If a question concerning dates and events with the kids comes up, I text. I have texted the EX-WW 3-4 times in a week. That is all I have to do.

I did have to set the boundary to her that I no longer wished to be her friend, so no more texts, emails, showing up at work, etc. Personal emails or texts only. I even told her not to call! I want nothing to do with her as she starts her new 'happy' life with OM. She burned the marriage down to the ground, blamed me (of which my addiction played a big role), and continues to do so. I don't need that guilt in my life - she's blame shifting. It sounds like yours has done the same.

Keep focusing on yourself and your S. Being completely dark to her is your new goal. Will you feel like a jerk at times? Certainly, it sounds like you both had co-dependancy. But, you need to strengthen your wings. It's called growth. It's really hard.

My best advice on this board came when 2 X 4's came to my forehead. I appreciate those hits more now after the D than when I was in the middle of it. I'm not being very soft in my words - so you might not like what I have to say. I know I'm speaking the truth in love right now, so I hope you understand. Keep up the fight.


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M15 T17
D20, S19, D13
M - Addiction since 1998
W EA/PA #1 2013/2014
W EA #2 June 2015...
BD 1 Big D talk 9/15
BD 2 - EA/PA disc 10/30/15
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Trumpet, thanks. I hear you loud and clear. For me the card will be going dark (or dim rather, down to email and text as you suggest), but I do have a few weeks of fight left. As long as I keep coming here, keep reading the DR (1/2 thru), and doing my GAL I think I have a few more weeks. Ido hear you loud and clear and I did not mention above that she texted me about S4 today and I left it alone, since he was with me, I felt no need to reply.

F'ing plan B. It [censored] how true that is.


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Not sure if it matters, but as far as WW still knows, I think the A has come to an end.


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Originally Posted By: CT1118
I am trying to hang in there and see how that affects her A.

I think you are wasting your energy with this. If you're setting a deadline or your own timeline on things, then you should just be "done" now.

Stop worrying about a "few weeks". Just worry about today. Can you make it through today?

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Quote:
Originally Posted By: CT1118
I am trying to hang in there and see how that affects her A.


I have a very different opinion about the "hanging in there". First of all, it has no positive affect on her affair. If anything, she will pursue the affair as long as your actions are telling her that you are still there for her.

I believe it shortens the affair, considerably, if the WW sees she is losing the man she took for granted and treated badly. The longer he sticks around, the less she cares. My question is......what does he need to do to cause her to think she's losing him?

I am not saying the man has to go straight to divorce, if he doesn't want it. There are other ways of getting her to think she is losing him.

CT, you are thinking like a man...........not a woman, and especially a wayward woman! You could probably do the opposite of what you think and get a closer hit to her mindset.


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Originally Posted By: darknes
Originally Posted By: CT1118
I am trying to hang in there and see how that affects her A.

I think you are wasting your energy with this. If you're setting a deadline or your own timeline on things, then you should just be "done" now.

Stop worrying about a "few weeks". Just worry about today. Can you make it through today?


Great point, yes I can make it through today. She just tried to change up our kids schedule via email. I responded very appropriately no I was not willing because I already had plans. She respond that my tone was awful and that she will not make this mistake again. Wondering if I overdid it one the tone, but it was email and I did tell her that I would be open to discussing next week so we do not make this mistake again.


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Sandi,

Please weigh in on what I responded to Darkness with. I stood my ground on an email where she wanted me to change a schedule so that she could have Saturday night off. I stood my ground because historically Saturdays have been my days for me. Also, she used the use of a friend which has been an excuse before when I found proof of her being with her AP. She did not respond very kindly to that. I am guessing that is very normal?


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Is she currently involved in A? This "it's all about me" crap attitude makes it sound that way. I might soften on the tone a little bit, but standing firm is right. Don't give in to everything she says. She'll moan, but a little incident like this won't mean anything a few days down the road....


Me: 35 W: 32
S: 4
T: 6 M: 4
Physical Separation official: 5/21
Currently: DR/DBing, Focusing on me and son

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Thanks RSG, yes she is still in the A, but thinks I am unaware of that. My tone was a bit harsh, in hindsight. I should have been more calculated in my approach and offered an alternative that still worked out for me to stand ground.


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Originally Posted By: sandi2
Quote:
Originally Posted By: CT1118
I am trying to hang in there and see how that affects her A.


I have a very different opinion about the "hanging in there". First of all, it has no positive affect on her affair. If anything, she will pursue the affair as long as your actions are telling her that you are still there for her.

I believe it shortens the affair, considerably, if the WW sees she is losing the man she took for granted and treated badly. The longer he sticks around, the less she cares. My question is......what does he need to do to cause her to think she's losing him?

I am not saying the man has to go straight to divorce, if he doesn't want it. There are other ways of getting her to think she is losing him.

CT, you are thinking like a man...........not a woman, and especially a wayward woman! You could probably do the opposite of what you think and get a closer hit to her mindset.


Sandi, my response was indeed the opposite of what I thought, but it was also fairly curt at a time when that level had not been approached yet. I'm certain I want WW to think she is losing me, but in a good way where I stand firm and continue with self-improvement, not by making her think she made the choice of walking away because I am an a-hole.I responded back to WW stating that I would offer a solution in terms of discussing what the future week would look like and WW apologized to me for flying off the handle. I still stood my ground and kept my days as I wanted and WW left apologizing. Holy S this is a complicated communication tactic. Way out of my element, but learning and will be a better communicator in the regardless of what happens. Thanks to all for the 2x4's and support tactics. You are right Sandi and Darknes, I do not want a divorce and I am putting my patience in a cart and placing it before the horse. Day by day, day by day, day by day.
I have a great GAL tonight though for which I stood my ground on - going to learn how to rock climb, joined a rock gym. Hope to meet new positive people.





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Sandi's point of WW needing to feel as though she is losing you was huge for me.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2667390#Post2667390
I read Sandi's first response in that link all the time for inspiration in times of hopelessness.

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Originally Posted By: ImAwake
Sandi's point of WW needing to feel as though she is losing you was huge for me.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2667390#Post2667390
I read Sandi's first response in that link all the time for inspiration in times of hopelessness.


That was the biggest help I have had since I have been here. Thank for pointing me towards it.


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CLARIFICATION POST: OK, so I need some clarification on a few things. And thanks Imawake, as forwarding Sandi's item is inspiring. Plus it helped me really identify a confusion I have had here. People all say advice here with some slight differences or I have been misinterpreting it (seems natural, would happen on a real street, why not a virtual?). I could give examples if asked, but not without.

So, to identify my biggest issue and confusion source w/ background recap: (keep in mind, i did not find this site until this month, I know I did wrong for a while). WW told me in June (3 months after BD/S) that the A was done). While I suspected the A continued, I decided I had to begin trusting WW again at some point despite my gut. On July 4 WW was returning from 3 day trip w S4 & me at my parents. WW acted noticeably hurried on return trip - had not seen that since pre-BD - which led me to the AP's FB page - I saw WW asking him about dinner. Realized I was duped twice as WW said she would end when we broke up, but needed time. I was mad and agreed to separation thinking it would really be best for both of us because I was so mad I wanted away from WW.Plus I would have been hard from the start, had I not decided to believe a lying liar who lies - I was w/out information then. So I know A is back on. Didn't want to act from anger, found this place. WW still does not know I am aware the A continues...

Reading through site, noticed a ton of commonality about getting tough on the WW. While I had been GAL from the start, realized I was still "nice guy", feel tricked into being nice guy, have never been that in my life, but also realize I have been a dck, which ain't good either. Thought the right answer to get tough would be to tell her I know she continued lying. Sensible people talked me off the ledge by stating if I wanted no D, why make the threat. I order the DR/DB and began reading, cannot possibly afford DB site's coaches, barely got the books. By now know coaches differ from chat room on WW. Began 180 last week and while I have seen some results, admit to backsliding here and there or just flat out getting it wrong while I learn. I have to pass by WW place to pick up S4 at daycare, do so tonight and AP vehicle is in driveway (no, there is no other way to get there, believe me I would take it). I did not feel anger, nor fear, nor pain - what I told myself was "I only control me". Plus, I realized there is still more fight in me - on one of my opening posts I asked how long do I fight - Cadet suggested "till they throw dirt on your box", great warrior Cadet.

BUT...here is where the confusion comes in. I have been hit w/ enough 2x4's and advice to see why me telling her I know about the A at this point will not make any difference (someone cheer for that in your head please). I also think, if guilt still exists in WW, that I would rather leave it with her for having to lie than to free WW of it by letting the cat out. However, I am struggling with how to press consequence upon the WW w/out explaining why. I have been getting response to my small consequences, but these have all seemed strange to WW, and please keep in mind I am a reforming Oxy addict (my part in the bad part of M) and so I am extra sensitive to appearing to be on it again, I promise I act weird on Oxy - WW used to say it all the time back when ( I am 6 months clean as of the 21st of this month and never going back). I am finding a discrepancy or misunderstanding for myself between the 180 rules and consequence w/out WW knowing I know the A continues. So, I had been going on "family days" etc, but know now I need to stop (for me!) what is the best answer to why I am turning it off at this point? And/or, could a statement simply be made like "you know, I am feeling really good right now, but we are separated and I think we have been too close lately, I would like to take a break from this for a while" - or something like that?

Not sure if these points matter, but not sure if I have provided before as I know I have been so hectic here I have overlooked questions, even if unitentionally: WW has never said ILYBNILWY only ILY, WW stopped speaking of D in late March and said nothing since, WW has done some pretty ridiculous things since S began like bring me meals, clean my apartment, buy me gifts,and ask me out on dates, WW just this week began referring to me as wanting to be friends which as I have read is a great place to be from the coaching but a horrible place from the chat room - last but not least, whether these things are out of guilt, love, or remorse, WW has sure as H gotten to enjoy the cake. I would like it to end the dessert somehow and I hope people here understand my confusion in the education. Still strong, looking forward to hearing from you.


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no one?


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Today was the second BD with WW About the A? I could not take it anymore, could not take knowing. Could no longer tolerate being lied to. While i am not flipping with joy, it's out there and I feel truly relieved. I feel tired actually, I feel really really tired. She was leveled, she was crying, she was sorry and apologetic in a way she was not on the 1st BD. I was heard, I was not angry, I was not fearful, I did not loose my cool.
My god, I think I am breathing again.
I don't know what comes next, D did not come up. I know I keep on the GAL. I'm done with the 180 though. There is nothing more to 180. She already knows I have changed, she already sees who I am. She knows I meant what I said. And I am letting her go. This is going to take more time, but I am on that road now, more than I have felt before. It is up to me to stay this way and I will stay well. If she wants to be a part of it, well I will check my own pulse from here on out.

You all have been extremely supportive. I will see what actions speak next. I can only control me.


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CT1118,

Most excellent dude!

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Originally Posted By: CT1118
CLARIFICATION POST: OK, so I need some clarification on a few things. And thanks Imawake, as forwarding Sandi's item is inspiring. Plus it helped me really identify a confusion I have had here. People all say advice here with some slight differences or I have been misinterpreting it (seems natural, would happen on a real street, why not a virtual?). I could give examples if asked, but not without.

So, to identify my biggest issue and confusion source w/ background recap: (keep in mind, i did not find this site until this month, I know I did wrong for a while). WW told me in June (3 months after BD/S) that the A was done). While I suspected the A continued, I decided I had to begin trusting WW again at some point despite my gut. On July 4 WW was returning from 3 day trip w S4 & me at my parents. WW acted noticeably hurried on return trip - had not seen that since pre-BD - which led me to the AP's FB page - I saw WW asking him about dinner. Realized I was duped twice as WW said she would end when we broke up, but needed time. I was mad and agreed to separation thinking it would really be best for both of us because I was so mad I wanted away from WW.Plus I would have been hard from the start, had I not decided to believe a lying liar who lies - I was w/out information then. So I know A is back on. Didn't want to act from anger, found this place. WW still does not know I am aware the A continues...

Reading through site, noticed a ton of commonality about getting tough on the WW. While I had been GAL from the start, realized I was still "nice guy", feel tricked into being nice guy, have never been that in my life, but also realize I have been a dck, which ain't good either. Thought the right answer to get tough would be to tell her I know she continued lying. Sensible people talked me off the ledge by stating if I wanted no D, why make the threat. I order the DR/DB and began reading, cannot possibly afford DB site's coaches, barely got the books. By now know coaches differ from chat room on WW. Began 180 last week and while I have seen some results, admit to backsliding here and there or just flat out getting it wrong while I learn. I have to pass by WW place to pick up S4 at daycare, do so tonight and AP vehicle is in driveway (no, there is no other way to get there, believe me I would take it). I did not feel anger, nor fear, nor pain - what I told myself was "I only control me". Plus, I realized there is still more fight in me - on one of my opening posts I asked how long do I fight - Cadet suggested "till they throw dirt on your box", great warrior Cadet.

BUT...here is where the confusion comes in. I have been hit w/ enough 2x4's and advice to see why me telling her I know about the A at this point will not make any difference (someone cheer for that in your head please). I also think, if guilt still exists in WW, that I would rather leave it with her for having to lie than to free WW of it by letting the cat out. However, I am struggling with how to press consequence upon the WW w/out explaining why. I have been getting response to my small consequences, but these have all seemed strange to WW, and please keep in mind I am a reforming Oxy addict (my part in the bad part of M) and so I am extra sensitive to appearing to be on it again, I promise I act weird on Oxy - WW used to say it all the time back when ( I am 6 months clean as of the 21st of this month and never going back). I am finding a discrepancy or misunderstanding for myself between the 180 rules and consequence w/out WW knowing I know the A continues. So, I had been going on "family days" etc, but know now I need to stop (for me!) what is the best answer to why I am turning it off at this point? And/or, could a statement simply be made like "you know, I am feeling really good right now, but we are separated and I think we have been too close lately, I would like to take a break from this for a while" - or something like that?

Not sure if these points matter, but not sure if I have provided before as I know I have been so hectic here I have overlooked questions, even if unitentionally: WW has never said ILYBNILWY only ILY, WW stopped speaking of D in late March and said nothing since, WW has done some pretty ridiculous things since S began like bring me meals, clean my apartment, buy me gifts,and ask me out on dates, WW just this week began referring to me as wanting to be friends which as I have read is a great place to be from the coaching but a horrible place from the chat room - last but not least, whether these things are out of guilt, love, or remorse, WW has sure as H gotten to enjoy the cake. I would like it to end the dessert somehow and I hope people here understand my confusion in the education. Still strong, looking forward to hearing from you.


Somebody once said I understand DB better than most, I just suck at implementing it... That was the biggest truth ever. Here's how I see it, you know about the A continuing or you don't... Your WW does stuff for you or not.. Should I thank / do for her or not... All inconsequential questions, if you have moved on... I don't mean find someone else, I mean stop caring, find your happiness, do your thing as though she's gone. When you feel like that, you treat her as you want, as the man you are... You don't think about it, wonder if it was right, you just do. Think about your last girlfriend, what would you do if she did/asked what your W is doing..


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All great points Cnut. Today was a milestone for me. When I said the other day that I felt like I was done, I realized I truly wanted to tell her I knew. So I did, and now it's done. Tonight I did my GAL at a rock climbing gym. Was around a bunch of positive people doing some really healthy stuff with their time. When I left, I thought I was just high off the workout. And I really did feel great, but it's stuck with me, I feel great right now. Hell I've actually been able to watch TV, I don't enjoy use TV very often, but I have not been able to watch it for a month because I have been combing the net looking for why the A, MLC or whatever was happening.
So even after doing another BD on my WW(ps, Sandi was right, she tried to deny and I calmly said do not fking make me pull this out of you twice in my life) she still called me and texted me tonight. I ignored the first few, then answered her. I really didn't sound like I cared or sound like I was rehearsing something. She Wanted to talk more, I didn't and ended it. Low and behold, typing this is the most I have thought of her in the past 6 hours. Will she stop the A, I don't know at some point I would think. I know I'm stopping the chase. I sure hope this feeling sticks. Find what works right by doing something different - I will be hitting that rock gym more often and it should keep my pants fitting well.


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I don't see it as an easy call ... but I think you did the right thing, telling her you know. The key, as I see it, is that you told her (fairly?) calmly and w/o much emotional baggage. So (I think) you made it all about honesty, integrity and loyalty, not anger and jealousy. That seems the right thing to do.

Hopefully she'll "woman up" and start being honest with people in her life.


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Originally Posted By: ForGump
I don't see it as an easy call ... but I think you did the right thing, telling her you know. The key, as I see it, is that you told her (fairly?) calmly and w/o much emotional baggage. So (I think) you made it all about honesty, integrity and loyalty, not anger and jealousy. That seems the right thing to do.

Hopefully she'll "woman up" and start being honest with people in her life.


Thank you. Seriously. It was so hard to let go of the fear to tell her, as was told here I had to be ready for the consequences. Your thinking is correct, I made it all about those things. I feel better for me at any rate. Still feeling it today. Still think of her, but thinking of her feels different.


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Off to the dentist...having teeth fixed. GAL! Improve self esteem.


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GAL tonight was a lot of skateboarding on the ocean front (yes, I'm 41, no this is not MLC, I've skateboarded for years). Very little contact from WW today, a few emails, I igored them all except 1 about shared money and my reply was very short, but polite. Felt strange, but only in a change of habit way, to not speak w/ WW that much.
I stopped into a tiki hut to get some water and food. Had a long convo with a woman that I started, was not about trying to "hook" in anyway, she was very pretty and I found that intimidating, so muscled up part of my GAL challenges, to get beyond my natural introversion and actually speak to other humans when I feel like retreating into my own head. No name, no number, don't care, wasn't looking for that.
Also at work today, I convinced a coworker to go to gym with me during lunch. He has been looking to drop a few and I finally convinced him to take the plunge. Spent my time showing him some basics. Point of this is 8 months ago before I suspected anything and still lived with WW, I would have never considered spending my time helping someone like that. Guess now feeling good enough to share.


"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies.
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Moderators: I am not sure what the metrics are for the advice links that go on the newcomers welcome page (mine was from cadet). However, as I have suspected my WW of having an A that is more symptomatic of her journey and a potential MLC than it is about our M, I have been reading more in the MLC forum. I found this today -

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2177869&page=1

If I may suggest it as an addition. I really wish I had found this when I first got here. It may have been embedded in some of the posts which were recommended, but it did not stand up front. Anyway, that's my suggestion.


"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies.
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So I have spent the past three days since I did the 2nd BD thinking and reading about MLC. The things my WW said to me during that BD just sounded like something things she said before, many times - like way before the A, and she said them again during the BD and she said them again after, and then again three days ago. When I thought about it, the things she said never really wavered or changed. I realized I had been so focused on the A and/or the AP as well as on my hopes to get her back, that these these were not clicking in my head.
I had to BD the 2nd time. I spent a great deal of my earlier posts trying to get an answer on whether or not to tell her.

Finally I realized the answers were all through the thread from various people "tell her if you need to, but do it for you...be prepared for the consequences". Well, I realized this weekend that the constant lies were a boundary for me, while I did not wish to hear of her plans with her AP, I also did not wish to hear lies about it. And while WW was speaking during the 2nd BD I knew I had not been paying attention (did not tell her that). I am glad I confronted the A a 2nd time though - glad because it released me in many ways to truly pursue detachment. Its begun, but I have more road to travel than I realized - silly me.

So, three days of reading - I am convinced (no, Im not a doctor) that WW is in an MLC. I took notes from books, website, and posts from the MLC forums here. WW has so many of the symptoms that I felt like I was reading the story of her life. As I understand it so far, this is a whole lot different than we were having marriage problems and she simply wanted a new thrill in life, which is what I was focused on. The A is a big part of it, but it is also a normal response during these times for men and women.

Best as I can tell, she is in stage 3 of this whole thing.I want to stay married, but I am committed to myself being healthy one way or the other. I think my biggest challenge is re-writing an alternative future. Not to give up hope, but to understand that hope can exist simultaneously beside the reality of my life - which is to prepare for a future which may not include her.

I understand that I am now in a different type of response zone from my reading. Would love some advice. I doubt I am the only person here who began their focus on just the A and then came to realize that this was not the only problem. From what I have read about my stages of recovery, I think I am on a pretty good track with my thoughts. How to let go without full dark. How to be nice without showing my hand. How to help myself and know that this is not just for gaining WW's attention directly, but knowing WW will notice.


"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies.
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OK, seriously, someone mentioned if my posts were not being commented on it meant I was doing things well, or good, or right??? Or people are bored w my story - always possible.

I am not sure wtf is going on with my WW. Am I doing it right? Story from past few days...you can all read above many times over about latest BD and how at the end I told WW she was free to make her own choices, I was free to make mine. Annnnnndddddddd....I did back off, significantly. I have accepted a few phone calls, 2 emails, etc, but I have ignored the bulk and when I did respond I was polite, validating, and brief; plus I left all of the talk up to her. And then today...

She called in the morning - I rejected call via text that said I was in a meeting, which was true. I called back thinking it was over S4, but she told me she wanted to say hello and then began on some mess about her work, I listened to her and then she asked me what to do about it. "Well, first I am sorry you feel that way, but as I was listening to you, you said [convo specific answer]. It sounds to me like you already know what to do, that must make you feel good." WW said "thanks for helping me" I told WW, it was not my decision, she identified it herself and that I had to go. Then come email bombs, which I did not respond to (except one, which was about what she had to pay on insurance - valid question - I only answered 'yes'), then another phone call, which I rejected with a text stating I had just gotten done performing emergency medical aid and calling 911 on one of my employees, which was true, and I was not able to talk. Then, mid-afternoon I get an email with a picture of a tree that states"I hope your day is going well" Please know that I am an Arborist,so in the past when I would screw up in the R, I would send her a tree picture instead of a heart or flowers or something. It was my thing to her and she sent one to me. Nice gesture, touching even, ignored it. Just 3 minutes ago I get a text. Thinking it was my buddy I had been texting earlier, I open it - text from her of my S4 (with her tonight) saying "he just looks more like you everyday". I did not reply - its late and I am actually getting ready for bed reading.

So, DB world, please offer me something - what am I seeing here, the dim lights working?, the LRT taking hold? guilt/recognition/loss?, am I now the distancer? or is WW just getting frustrated w/my hard to get?

It's still pretty early in this level of the strategy for me to even think this is turning around that quickly. At what point do you offer a small percentage more (It seems too early to me, so to you, the outside observer...) Please offer some thoughts.


"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies.
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I'm new. I'm lost. But i read your post, and went back and read some initial posts.

hopefully someone with more advice than myself comments!

good job on not taking the bait. -that's all I got smile


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Brother, you're following my posts. I barely answer anything, the old lady is trying to find new ways to contact me and don't instigate anything. And I still get groaned at for talking too much lol.

I have a feeling you're going to get blasted my friend.

My advice: If you don't feel like answering a call, you don't have to tell her why. Just ignore it. If she says have a good day, stick to a word or two in response if anything. Your answer about insurance was good.

Going dim means you're showing her what it'd be like to be divorced, and to live your life like a single dad. For all intents and purposes right now that's what you are. I try to keep all communication to $$$ and scheduling. I let out something unnecessary every now and then, but I know she's VERY frustrated with everything. I don't want to be her friend, and I want her to know that. SAYING it will make her sad or angry in the moment, but if I answer her calls and shoot the bull all day she'll know I'm there.

It's hard, and you're moving forward but I'd encourage you to set a daily goal. Something like no phone calls and 2 texts responses of 4 words or less. If you hit that goal consistently then you can move to something more difficult. Now, if something comes up like your kid is sick or you have to work out who has him next week or she asks how much $$ she has to contribute to XYZ that's different.


Me: 35 W: 32
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CT1118,

This could be turning a corner - or her just checking that plan B still loves her.

Your walk is the same - away from her. A bomb just went off a block from your work? I'm sorry... I hope it works out for you. You just lost a kidney? Send a card. I'm going to the absurd here, but you get my drift...

Why not try to turn towards her now? She has to feel the loss.

My ex-ww is in a MLC, if I had to put a name on it. Didn't change the divorce. Some don't want the D - they just want something... anything... but losing the marriage would be a bridge too far. Mine blew the bridge up right away.

You have done the DB'ing thing, it sounds like, to good effect. You carried the ball to get a first down... to the 10. You got 90 yards to go. Don't go for the deep crossing route yet. Keep up the 3 yards and a cloud of dust routine until you get stronger.


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W EA #2 June 2015...
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CT, having watched RSGs situation I'd say he has it down and his advice above is spot on. You seem to be getting a lot of attention from the W and she seems to be desperately trying to reel you back into her zone of control. Keep doing what you're doing and it seems like it'll force her to realize what she's losing. Moving back into her zone of control seems like it would set you back at this point.

Some of the vets her like RSG should have more specific advice, but I'd say you're doing a great job. Keep it up brother!


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CT1118,

What are your goals at this point? What changes do you hope to see in your situation, in yourself, in your MLC/WW? What are some mileposts on the way to those final goals?

Seems like you had a terrific day 1 of going dim. Keep it up. I think it's important to stay gentle, warm but firm -- the point is not to push her away but to let her know you're focusing on yourself, and movin' on... (or ... something like that -- I'm new to this).


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What you're doing is right on target. Stay the course. You are on her mind and not other places. That is where you want it to be. At this point she wants to get you back on plan B since you appear to be unavailable. Don't take the bait. Be busy, whether real or not, just don't have time for her. Keep responses to only important things as you have done. But even constant talk of important things is not good for you. Discuss it, make a decision, done, move on.

Don't forget 180's and GAL. Also, have you read sandi's 27 rules for WW's? That is your guide.


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My thanks to everyone with my latest question. I am not suggesting anyone is wrong here, but there are different opinions. I do want each of you to know how much I value your thoughts, support, and ideas.

That said, given what happened to me last (story coming), I think Trumpet was closest to the issue I face. I no longer believe this is just about the A for me, I believe she is in full blown MLC.

It was close to 11pm last night (I wake at 5am , so late for me and I was sleeping) when phone rings - WW. She knows my schedule, so emergency? S4?. I answer and the first thing I say "is S4 ok?" WW states he's fine and immediately begins apologizing. WW has been crying, I can hear it. WW immediately begins into statements like "There's been so many changes", "I dont know what I am doing" "I am hurting so badly and I caused all this" "There was so much damage done to me in my past (this was a reference to her childhood)", "I only seem to hurt people" - you get the point. Fortunately, I had spent my day reading about stages of MLC in women, stages of the LBS dealing with MLC, and how LBS should respond to a WW w/ an MLC. WW did not mention D (has not since early May), but did mention needing more time & space and asked me not to wait.

Without having read Trumpet's post at that time, I felt her feeling the loss. I stayed on point - no name use, no anger, no "I love you" (even when WW said it to me). I was affirming and I listened. I feel good in my gut about the way I handled it which tells me I handled it right (believe me, when I screw up and backslid, I am aware of it immediately these days). That does not mean I was happy to hear the person I care about is suffering. However, I was suffering too and I carried that, and I made a plan for it which did not involve her love, I had a ton of help - you all on the list.

I am not going to obsess over her stages. I woke up today with the same confidence and sense of direction I have had since my switch was flipped last weekend.

To answer ForGump "What are your goals at this point? What changes do you hope to see in your situation, in yourself, in your MLC/WW? What are some mileposts on the way to those final goals?"

My goals - stay on target with GAL, self awareness, and R w/ S4. Give WW space to work herself out on her own. Not to be completely available, but to listen just enough so that I have a presence (stay dim). What do I hope to see in WW, self, and sitch? - In me, I hope to see in me the strength to keep my boundaries, dignity, and respect in tact and the perseverance to stick to my goals. In sitch, ultimately, I would like to hit a better R and avoid being her friend in a buddy way, but a path towards reconciliation. I will do as Trumpet says - gentle & warm, but firm. But for now, I feel like its all where it should be - her working on her, me working on me, neither of us failing S4 in our own ways. Not to push her away, but let her know I am self-focused, again as trumpet says. In WW, she stops her A, she acknowledges her pain/issues, she realizes the road ahead is long and hard and that she can do it (I will not be forcing or pursuing any of this on her behalf, but I will validate and listen at times). Mileposts - action is the only language I speak right now - I am going to reread MWD sections on signs the WW offers and respectfully will have to get back to you on that one. WW must set her own goals, but what I wrote above about her would begin to show me some action.

mvgfwd2 "What you're doing is right on target. Stay the course. You are on her mind and not other places. That is where you want it to be." You know that's right.

Thanks everyone.


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That is good news. I know you are aware but I will say it anyway. Be strong and not pursue her. It takes time for the fog to clear and you need to be consistent. If she wants to talk reconciliation, that may be OK but don't commit to anything.


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Thanks mvgfwd2. Hey, I am aware of it, but I need to hear it out loud from something other than my own head. I am going to need to re-read it, I am going to trust you (and others) will know when to say it to me again.

The fog is still thick and from what I have been reading, it could be a while before it lifts.

You know, it's some real noble Hollywood crap when people say "I would fight Hell for you" to someone they love. What people do not realized is that fight will take place in yourself and not the person you say it to. That is what makes the things we are all going through (or have been through) here so dmn demanding. But I have realized this - as painful as everything has been or will be be, I am a better person b/c of it. I cannot deny WW this gift she has given, I would have preferred she used different methods, but I got here nonetheless. I don't take it personally anymore - that was part of my wake up.

Still in the fight for me. Thanks


"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies.
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Originally Posted By: CT1118
"What are your goals at this point?" ... In WW, she stops her A


That seems like a good tangible milepost to let you know DB is working.

Enjoyed Trumpet's analogy of 10 down, 90 to go, 3 yards of dust at a time.

Good to see DB is working for some people.


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I like the analogy too, I am not a football fan, but I am an American so its very easy to picture context in my mind.

I imagine its working, but we never really know do we, part of the problem. That said, thank you for the boost. Sticking with the analogy though, I am still a long way from doing the touchdown dance. Minor contact today (email) from WW - regarded when we would exchange S4 tomorrow, very brief. I can't wait to get off work - this time of day is when the "what's happening" vibe creeps on me the most. I get my S4 tonight though - excited.


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Not much of a football fan myself.

Skating by the sea is more up my alley.


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Originally Posted By: ForGump
Not much of a football fan myself.

Skating by the sea is more up my alley.



Where is the 'like' icon?


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Last night was first night I had S4 in 4 nights and first time since I did 2nd BD. It was the 1st night after WW called me crying and apologizing and telling me what a mess she was,this is all her fault. I had almost zero contact w/ WW yesterday and today she came over and picked up S4 at 930am. We had brief conversation and the bulk of it about S4. Yeah, I followed the rules for shortness. Walking the dog down for a walk at the same time WW and S4 were leaving, WW gave me a hug, I reciprocated, which is allowed in some strategies for an MLC if they initiate and you don't turn it into a thing. Had a great day of GAL, was going to take it further with a gym run tonight, still might, but took my first nap in many months and now a bit groggy. I did also write down some goals for me, the WW, and mileposts based upon some posts and questions I was asked yesterday. I also wrote in my personal journal.
Just here realizing WW will drop off S4 tomorrow at 9 am for my weekend day w him. Sunday's are the days when WW would lie the most about - would spend whole day with AP. Anyway, this is a fact I cannot control. I will focus on a joy the day w/ my S4. Detachment is a very long and slow reflective process. WW's sad reflective phone call showed me she is realizing she has broken some things, but it does not mean she is going to end her A anytime soon. I just wish I could hit fast forward into the day when she realizes how uncomfortable she is around the AP due to her own recognition. Why, that is the 2nd step for my WW in my mind. The first was to begin to wake up, which she showed me the other night. But again, i can't control that.

This really more of a journal post, just to get off my mind. I think I need to shake off this nap and hit that gym. Too many hours left in the day, it's storming outside, and I can't sit here with an iPad and some shtty movies killing time alone.


"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies.
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Glad I went to the gym. Feeling much better, clearer, and peaceful inside my head. Rock climbing gym, great because while the body is hurting, it requires more focus than a run - when I run my mind does not quit thinking, when I climb, my mind is all about not falling - thinking through each move - making sure I have the grip to get there - it takes strength, patience, and a clear mind to climb. While I was driving home, I thought the experience of climbing is not too much unlike my R or lack there of right now.

I really am deliberate everyday to take action on myself. And believe me I do a lot. I completely filled my day with physical recreation to tire myself out for the evening. I still need this to make my body so tired so my head is clear. I look forward to when, while I still do my GAL, I won't need to beat my body to pieces with physical exercise to have a clear mind. Our relationships, our gifts, and our health should be the most important thing in life. If all my possessions were taken away (and I don't have many), my health, my talents, and my relationships would be all I have. I need to remember to stop always trying to get somewhere, need to stop and look around every now and then, I may already be there.


"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies.
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I can see by my "views" to my posts that more people read this than comment, which is fine. So, I hope my story is at least helpful to some, relatable to some, or worthy of the reads in some way.

So, WW just dropped off S4 at my apartment. I must admit, I was feeling the full weight of the drop off conversation and was trying to hold my mind together. I realized my mind was starting to spiral and I was backsliding - if nowhere else but in my own head. So, I had to say out loud to myself : I can't control her actions, I can only control mine, I am going to have fun when S4 gets here, I accept this situation and am willing to give her space and take my own. I grabbed my guitar and played to keep my mind off it all.

WW arrived w/ S4 and as I have come to do my immediate attention was towards S4. I listened to WW tell me about what her and S4 did the day before. She said a few things and I validated. She asked what S4 would be doing as I was not offering, so I shared my plans in brief. We spoke about a few joint money items. She asked what I had done the night before, so I told her again in brief, but politely. Then she said she had to go which I simply said ok, S4 and I are going to get going as well. WW said "bye" as she was walking out and, while I had not said her name in almost two weeks, it blurted out by impulse "bye [name]". So i messed that part up, but again, recognize and reorganize, move forward.

I feel good now that I am through it, will not see or speak much to WW during work week as I have not for the past two. The anxiety was not good today, but much better than in the past. And I feel like I held my lines well. So, quick update, and now the rain has stopped, so going out to enjoy my son.


"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies.
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Hi CT, well done with managing the anxiety. Using coping techniques like you did helps build resilience, and that's such a good thing, however life unfolds.

I don't think using your W's name was a slip-up and I wouldn't worry about that. The time to worry is when she's trying to get out of the door and you're holding on to her ankles, crying please love me!! Best not to do that... grin

Sounds like you are doing well in tough circumstances my friend smile


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Originally Posted By: Sotto
Hi CT, well done with managing the anxiety. Using coping techniques like you did helps build resilience, and that's such a good thing, however life unfolds.

I don't think using your W's name was a slip-up and I wouldn't worry about that. The time to worry is when she's trying to get out of the door and you're holding on to her ankles, crying please love me!! Best not to do that... grin

Sounds like you are doing well in tough circumstances my friend smile


Thanks Sotto, for the support, but mostly for that middle comment about "holding onto her ankles". Seriously, I have not laughed out loud in quite some time, like can't remember, and that did it for me.

Just got back from park/playground with S4, he is watching cartoons for some afternoon downtime before we hit the pool.


"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies.
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Glad you enjoyed that one. Yes, strangely I've had a lot more laughs since BD. Sometimes we learn to laugh a lot more through these tough times. Me and my divorce group chums fall about laughing at stupid things....any ways - no angle grabbing!!


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So, something I had not mentioned earlier... I have finished the DR/DB books. I now re-read them, in as much as re-reading involves looking through what I underlined and/or where I dog-eared pages.

Page 129 of the LRT section in DR - step 3 'watch & wait', 2nd possible reason: paraphrasing; mate becomes curious about you, shows more interest in you, "might even suggest you spend some time together to talk or do something enjoyable...", and will begin asking questions about your changes.

There are suggestions of what to do if this happens on page 130. I will not suggest the above is happening in full to me by my WW. She has been doing the above, did it today and earlier this week, which I inadvertently left out - asking me excessively about what I have been doing with my free time, sending me texts about 'how are you doing', asked me on a date today to 'catch up', made comments about how I have changed.

Why will I not suggest the above is happening in full? Rule no. 32, and the A continues - I have not spied in two weeks, but as far as I am concerned the A continues until I am told it does not.

Its hard to bleed all the details here all at once, gotta come back to continue painting the story, plus, in an environment where people check in regularly to see if anyone is paying attention to the noises in their head, its hard not to want to pick up and display the pieces one thinks got left behind.

GAL with son at pool for two hours. Now watching Angry Birds w/ S4 which as far as kids movies go is pretty horrible, but he's happy and that is good enough for my smiles towards him.


"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies.
BD: Feb '16
D: Mar '17
Piecing: Putting the self back together was my piecing.
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I would say if the A is continuing - hold your course. Minimal, pleasant, guy with other places to go - not going to hang around for some woman who isn't going to put him first.

She's temp checking I think. She may not want you right now - but sure as heck doesn't want someone else to get you. Have you read Sandy's thread on WWs?

Beware of getting into the 'friend' zone or gratefully hoovering up crumbs. Until or unless she chooses to end this A and recommit to the M, you are moving forward as if she is never coming back...

JMHO of course, but I think strength and resolve and losing the fear (of losing her) are the way to go...


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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Thanks Sotto - So you had a question embedded in there and yes I have not only read Sandi's post on WW once, but many times. Yes, this could be a pulse check and it is too early to definitively say that it is not. So...I intend to hold course.

The fear of loosing her decreases daily, still here, but I do feel it going down. I wonder how many of us, as I do, fear the fact that they might actually fall less in love with our WW/WH? Don't get me wrong, I am still very much in love with W, I am very much aware of why I am willing to go through all of this, but sometimes the beach which compliments the sea has to acknowledge erosion. Thus, the biggest fear I have is not her leaving/not loving me, it is that I will no longer be willing or able when that time comes. I will not create my own future here though, I will not say such things again. Nonetheless, CT1118 continues to improve himself. Still in the fight.


"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies.
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Hi CT1118, I'm fairly new here. H left mid-May but no sign of A as yet. I just wanted to say that today is the first day that I have started to question my love for my H and that really frightens me. I so desperately want to see him, talk to him, hold him but the longer I go NC/dark the further I feel away from him. Me and my D have decided we will not contact him at all this week as he usually comes over once a week for a family night but we have been arranging everything. From now on we want to see him making the effort to see us but it's so hard not speaking with him, I really hate what he had brought us to...


Me - 47
H - 45
D-16
M - 6 years
Separated - May 16

Don't leave me behind can't you see me I'm shining... (Years & Years - 'Shine')
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"Thus, the biggest fear I have is not her leaving/not loving me, it is that I will no longer be willing or able when that time comes."

This is a fear that comes to me every now and then too. I can tell a huge difference in how I feel about her now compared to how I felt the day she walked out.

I agree w/Sotto though. She's scared of losing you to someone else, but is just making sure you're there. It's a really ugly thing honestly. Unless you can see a change in her attitude towards you (and you'll know), assume she's still in an A....


Me: 35 W: 32
S: 4
T: 6 M: 4
Physical Separation official: 5/21
Currently: DR/DBing, Focusing on me and son

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Originally Posted By: Coly23
Hi CT1118, I'm fairly new here. From now on we want to see him making the effort to see us but it's so hard not speaking with him, I really hate what he had brought us to...

Coly23 - welcome, I will look for your thread. If you have not done one yet, please do - Cadet will have reading for you. I cannot project to know how you feel - if it helps to know how I feel though, I have come to realize hating my WW is the wrong approach; time here should show you that all of this makes you a better/stronger/improved human for what you have proven yourself willing to endure. I will tell you via statistics - its normal for people to cheat, its normal for their spouses to be pissed and scared, its normal for some people to have a midlife crisis and not give a sht about how it hurts others, its normal for people to think "fk them" and go tell the world what a piece of sht their spouse is, its correct for us to know its normal and not excuse their behavior - it is abnormal to realize you are worth more than that and will take care of yourself with the understanding that it may also take care of the one you love the most during your process. Speak out loud Coly23, we will hear you.

Originally Posted By: RSG


I agree w/Sotto though. She's scared of losing you to someone else, but is just making sure you're there. It's a really ugly thing honestly. Unless you can see a change in her attitude towards you (and you'll know), assume she's still in an A....


Damn straight RSG. I have seen a change in attitude, one where I feel the pursue/distance R may have shifted, but going back to that earlier football parable, I may have the ball, but I am far from the end zone. I will assume the A continues until I get proof. Even then, that is only the 2nd step in my goals for what the WW s doing (see earlier posts, she did get through step 1 goal by admitting she had fked things up with the A and that she was scared/confused). Lies are exposed, but only for me. The biggest lie is within the WW themselves. Better or worse right y'all? Its certainly a challenge.


"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies.
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Hey CT, you seem to be in a really good place emotionally. Seems like you have found the ever illusive detachment.


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I wish my W was temp checking me...!

I'm not sure but I may be feeling myself slowly falling out of love. Hard to say because it's a rollercoaster ride. Sometimes I feel like I'm less into her, yet other times I feel like my heart's going to explode from losing her, or thinking about her w/ someone else.

I do believe that much of good, long-term love is built through deliberate choices and actions, and that it's not all just some magical chemistry. (Something I don't think my W believes in, at least not as much as I do). So it makes sense to me that if a H & W make choices to distance themselves form each other -- like having an A or doing GAL and going dark -- that our feelings might start to fade a little as well.


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I'd agree with you except for the GAL bit.

Getting a life and having interests that are all yours is a good thing. Even in a healthy, close, happy marriage.

GAL shouldn't stop when you get to piecing, although you might need to adjust the amount of time you spend in GAL activities.


Me: 44
H: 44
Kids: 20, 16, 16, and 10
Together/Married: 22 years
H announced he was emotionally detached and considering D: 4/4/16
H announced he is going to try to stay and reconnect: 5/1/16
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CT1118 Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Melo
Hey CT, you seem to be in a really good place emotionally. Seems like you have found the ever illusive detachment.


Melo - thank you, I am getting closer, but the fact that all these months later I still struggle to intake more than 1200 calories a day and have little sleep which is broken apart by consistent wake-up says my subconscious has a different story to tell. I am trying, and really do feel better during the day - and part of my struggle to eat has to do with the medication I am on.

Originally Posted By: ForGump
I wish my W was temp checking me...!

I'm not sure but I may be feeling myself slowly falling out of love. Hard to say because it's a rollercoaster ride. Sometimes I feel like I'm less into her, yet other times I feel like my heart's going to explode from losing her, or thinking about her w/ someone else.


ForGump - this is all true. I have mentioned before how I have to drive by my WW's place to drop my S4 off at school. Two weeks ago I quit looking over to see if AP's truck was in driveway. This morning I had an urge to do it, but resisted. I feel good this morning. I don't care, but I do - sure that makes sense to many here. WW texted this morning - we keep a joint bank account for shared debts and something went wrong w/ a deposit. WW included "have a good day", yeah, temp checking. The road is long. The road is long.

I think I hit my 100 posts soon and will be able to start a new thread. The title of this current one does not seem appropriate to me anymore.


"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies.
BD: Feb '16
D: Mar '17
Piecing: Putting the self back together was my piecing.
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I would like to know thoughts on this:

For months at the start of each week, WW had been sending me a proposed schedule of what nights who would watch S4. More often than not, I had just agreed to it, it did not really matter to me. Then at start of July when I realized WW was still in the A, I drew a boundary and began sending WW the schedule I wanted. This did not go over very well w/ her at first, but I stayed on course. Now that some of my moves have had impact, should I continue or let WW take some of this back? My initial goals were to disrupt WW's plans w/ her AP, but now that a 2nd BD has occurred, I am not really sure I need that goal anymore. Also, in an effort to do this, it has required me to violate my 'first contact' rule each Monday. I sent one out this morning not thinking about it, but I am thinking about it now - thought's on this?


"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies.
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D: Mar '17
Piecing: Putting the self back together was my piecing.
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CT1118,

Do what's best for S4.

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Originally Posted By: doodler
CT1118,

Do what's best for S4.



Sound advice, thank you


"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies.
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Please start a new thread


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Originally Posted By: CT1118
Two weeks ago I quit looking over to see if AP's truck was in driveway.


That would tear my guts out. I'd drive 4x4 through the fkn mountains (in my 2 wheel drive import gas miser car) to avoid having to see this.

Originally Posted By: CT1118
WW included "have a good day", yeah, temp checking. The road is long. The road is long.


Maybe in the world of texting, "Have a good day" is temp-checking ... but when interacting w/ my W in person, the mindset I'm trying to adopt is that of a polite, decent friend, so I often say "have a good day" as a parting greeting, because simply skipping the greeting might come across as being sulky, and I don't to give off that vibe.


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Originally Posted By: Rose888
I'd agree with you except for the GAL bit.


Good point. Thanks for pointing that out.



New thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2693977#Post2693977l

Last edited by Cadet; 08/01/16 02:00 PM. Reason: Link

Me: 50, MLC/WW 45
Young kids
Nov 2015: BD1
Apr 2016: BD2
Jan 2017: W filed
Feb 2017: D final
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