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My husband and I have been together since I was 18, him 21. Now 24/27. Things have been rough since the beginning but were slowly starting to improve, until imploding. The only main issue is poor communication, and the fact that we've involved a lot of outside parties in the relationship during fights, including a time where he was arrested as a result.

He moved out a month ago and told me he wanted a divorce. I've ordered the DB book but I don't have a lot of hope left. I had to send him my notarized copy of the divorce agreement yesterday. I apologized yesterday for being so angry about his decision. Today he sent me this, and I have no idea how to respond. I think he's already gone.


"I'm sorry for everything and I wish very badly it went any other way, or that we actually paid attention and addressed it sooner. But it just got so far from what either of us wanted that we dragged so many people around us into it. On the bright side we are still both amazing people and nobody can take that from us and we definitely put in more effort than anyone our age that I've ever met. I will let you know what's going on with [filing for divorce] when the time comes."


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Welcome to the board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.


Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon


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bodhi Offline OP
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Just to clarify, I've already been doing a 180 to the best of my ability with a couple of hiccups. I honestly have no idea how I'm supposed to respond to this message, if at all. I'd love to hear a DB perspective on this because I'm at a loss.


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Originally Posted By: jsxca
"I'm sorry for everything and I wish very badly it went any other way, or that we actually paid attention and addressed it sooner.
But it just got so far from what either of us wanted that we dragged so many people around us into it.
On the bright side we are still both amazing people and nobody can take that from us and we definitely put in more effort than anyone our age that I've ever met.
I will let you know what's going on with [filing for divorce] when the time comes."

I dont think this requires any response.
What do you want to say?

Write it out here and wait 48 hours before you send any communication.(to get some input)


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Hi, sorry that you are here- but welcome. I guess some db-ers would say you don't need to respond to this message.

If you do message back, something short and sweet which encourages positive behaviour would be good. Thank him for his understanding and being civil.

I wouldn't say it's too late at all. People whi appear to hate each other's guys have gone into piecing. It's just time to do some hard work.


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ILYBINILWY- 11/15
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bodhi Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Cadet

What do you want to say?


"If you wish that it would go any other way, there's no reason it has to go in the direction of a divorce. We can pay attention to this now, we can address this now. We can continue with a separation to give each other time and space, we can go to counseling to work on making sure these reoccurring issues do not keep happening. Everyone who is currently way too involved in our lives will eventually either forget or no longer be a part of our lives, but what you are proposing to do is permanent and affects the rest of our daily lives."

The people he is referring to are friends, not even ones he stays in contact with much. Our relatives have unfortunately been involved as well, but my parents are more than willing to forgive and accept him and I know my in laws are fond of me. During our previous separation, my FIL was begging me to please take his son back, and what can he do to make that happen. The separation was my husband's choice, so I told FIL that I had no control over it but wanted things to work out.

That's what I want to say. But of course it goes entirely against doing the 180. The problem is that my H tends to make very rushed, very brash decisions without thinking too far in the future. I don't think he realizes this. He truly feels that we've tried everything because we went to two counseling sessions before he gave up (the counselor told us that we should remain in counseling for at least one year), and because we separated twice for honestly too short of periods for anything to change (3 months and 2 months respectively). We haven't tried being separated and doing counseling together, or even taking either of them seriously.

Unfortunately, I know I cannot force him to change his mind. I'm still very much dedicated to the marriage though, unfortunately that's been true from day one of the relationship and it's been pretty one-sided for the majority. I just don't know what else I can do or say.

The good news is, I know that it will take him months (if at all) to file the paperwork...he's not very proactive, if I'm being honest. The bad news is, he's not filing them because he doesn't want to divorce, he won't be filing them because it's inconvenient.


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Originally Posted By: jsxca
The good news is, I know that it will take him months (if at all) to file the paperwork...he's not very proactive, if I'm being honest. The bad news is, he's not filing them because he doesn't want to divorce, he won't be filing them because it's inconvenient.


I think going as dark as possible is the best way to delay or stop the divorce.
I agree that you should not send that response.
It will not accomplish what you are intending and is
more pursuing, begging and pleading.

Just remember that sometimes doing NOTHING is really doing something.


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Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.

Originally Posted By: Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.

It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.

We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.

Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.


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Originally Posted By: Cherry
Hi, sorry that you are here- but welcome. I guess some db-ers would say you don't need to respond to this message.


Thanks for the welcome! Sorry you're here as well, from your signature it seems like you've been on quite the rollercoaster frown Hoping things improve for you again though!

I'm guessing too that no response here will probably be the best. The thing is that, as people who are living separately and have no kids, I'm afraid the next communication will just be him alerting me that he's filing paperwork. He has no reason to reach out to me otherwise, and we've only spoke about the logistics of separation since this occurred.

I backslid majorly on Saturday by talking about reconciliation. He said that he didn't see any way that the marriage could possibly work. I told him that I had a suggestion, but didn't want to bother with discussing it because he seemed to already have made his decision. He eventually pried it out of me and I told him I thought it would be a good idea if we just stay separated for awhile and eventually go to counseling, while still living separately.

He told me that he thinks that would only get us to a point where we would be happy enough to get back together, and that everything would be the same afterwards and that he's afraid of being arrested again. I tried reasoning that the point of counseling was to work on fixing things before ever even thinking of reconciling, and that he didn't have anything to lose by going to counseling. However, he's deathly afraid of being arrested again.

I'll be honest when I say that I made the threat of this. I'm so remorseful for it. He said so many terrible things about me, attacks both on my body and my personality, and also said things that made no sense about him deserving alimony from me, and also said he was getting a lawyer after (per his request) we agreed to leave lawyers out of the equation. I foolishly reminded him that I could reopen the closed case at any point and threatened to get a lawyer of my own.


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Originally Posted By: Cadet
Originally Posted By: jsxca
"I'm sorry for everything and I wish very badly it went any other way, or that we actually paid attention and addressed it sooner.
But it just got so far from what either of us wanted that we dragged so many people around us into it.
On the bright side we are still both amazing people and nobody can take that from us and we definitely put in more effort than anyone our age that I've ever met.
I will let you know what's going on with [filing for divorce] when the time comes."

I dont think this requires any response.
What do you want to say?

Write it out here and wait 48 hours before you send any communication.(to get some input)


Cadet, I think this is a great opportunity to respond in a validating way and make her position known to H.

J, I am sorry that you're here for horrible reasons, but you're among some really fine folks here who will provide you with tons of support, humor, and some whacks of 2 x 4. We will go easy on you as you are really hurting and finding your way around here.

I would encourage you to read Cadet's homework and visit other threads here for you will learn tons of really useful information.

Since you are not fully up to speed on DBing principles, I would suggest that you post here first before reacting to H's texts and emails for we can provide you with some feedback to ensure your responses are in alignment with DB. A lot of newbies want to explain (and sometimes over explain) their positions/view when actually pushes the WAS further away. We would not want that here, do we?

I would be more then happy to get you started in the right direction by posting here and you can change it to suit your style as I am not you:

Thank you for opening up to me...it cannot be easy for you at all and I appreciate this. I can see that we both made mistakes and probably didn't handle things very well. Sure, there are some things that I would do differently in my approach. Just to make you aware here--I do not want a divorce, but will not stand in your way. I agree that we are amazing people.

Then let it be. Don't try to chase H or engage in a drawn out text exchanges.

Keep coming here and post as often as you can. Be sure to visit other threads just to say "hi" to drive traffic back here.

Good luck! smile

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J,

Ah...we cross-posted and I saw your latest post.

You wrote this draft response:

"If you wish that it would go any other way, there's no reason it has to go in the direction of a divorce. We can pay attention to this now, we can address this now. We can continue with a separation to give each other time and space, we can go to counseling to work on making sure these reoccurring issues do not keep happening. Everyone who is currently way too involved in our lives will eventually either forget or no longer be a part of our lives, but what you are proposing to do is permanent and affects the rest of our daily lives."


I can feel pressure just from reading it. It feels smothering. You are like a desperate woman clinging to H's pants.

When working with newbies, I counsel them to follow the general email/text scripts:

-KISS (Keep It Short and Simple)
-Clear and concise
-Ignore "white noise" for they will speak in absolutes
-Leave your emotions out of it
-Do not try to counter their points/arguments for it will make them dig into their heels
-It is not about who's right or wrong. Respect their POV (Point of View) for it is how they see it/feel it right now. Doesn't mean it will always be this way

Your H feels the need to step away for now because of the intense exchanges and interactions you have had lately. Allow him the space for it is good for both of you. You need the space too, sweetie.

If you are able, try and see if you can schedule a session with a DB Coach. smile

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Originally Posted By: Wonka


Thank you for opening up to me...it cannot be easy for you at all and I appreciate this. I can see that we both made mistakes and probably didn't handle things very well. Sure, there are some things that I would do differently in my approach. Just to make you aware here--I do not want a divorce, but will not stand in your way. I agree that we are amazing people.



I like this a lot. I'll wait for more input. I've unfortunately made so many mistakes in the past couple of weeks that I'm afraid to make moves at all. I think I was under-exaggerating when I said I had been implementing the 180 with hiccups, the hiccups being the exaggeration. I don't know why I haven't been able to control my emotions...we've been separated twice before and I swear I thought I learned my lesson. I swore I was going to make things better. But here I am. The good news is, in the previous situations I made a lot of mistakes and it still worked out in the end - until it didn't of course, since I'm back here!


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Hello jsxca,

I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.

It is easy to be emotional when you have so many thoughts and feelings going through your head! Take a deep breath. What were you like when the two of you met? Focus all of your time, effort and energy into being the best jsxca that only a fool would leave.

Thank you Wonka for the vote of confidence regarding working with a DB Coach!

You are at a very fragile point in this relationship and it would be extremely helpful to know what your next move should be. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.

Cristy
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The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004


A Divorce Busting Coach can help you save your marriage, even when your spouse wants out.

Email virginia@divorcebusting.com or 303-444-7004 for more information or to get started right away.
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Thanks Cristy. Unfortunately, it's just not in the cards for me financially to do that. I did pick up the DB book, actually the Divorce Remedy one which from what I gather is a bit more updated.

I think unfortunately this time he is gone though. After all, this is our third separation in a year. I wish I would have learned from my past mistakes and followed through on letting go of my anger and started the relationship fresh.

I can't undo what's been done though, and the good thing is that I'm going to use that knowledge to better myself whether the marriage ends or not. I'm just hoping to god it wasn't a lesson that had to be learned the hardest way ever, in divorce.


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J,

Pllllft....forget all that self-defeating talk of divorce. That is not a good mindset to have if you truly want to save the M. Let me tell you a secret here: Many, MANY success stories have had the WAS speak in absolutes that "divorce" will happen and never will get back together with the LBS. Guess what?! Those DBers worked butts off in DBing and are happily reconciled.

Chin up. Have faith that this will all work out.

Do your homework provided by Cadet and please do read the Divorce Remedy book as it is the second, more updated edition to the original Divorce Busting book.

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Originally Posted By: Wonka
J,

Pllllft....forget all that self-defeating talk of divorce. That is not a good mindset to have if you truly want to save the M.


Thank you for the advice, and I know you are right. I am a big believer in positivity, and am trying so hard to keep faith. It is just so hard when I have nothing to go on. I know I'm not saying anything that anyone in this position has not thought before.

One thing that bothers me and turns my stomach: we have no children, we live separately already, the divorce agreement is in place and signed and delivered on my end. This leaves no reason for him to contact me.

I know the logical answer is that if he wants to contact me, he will find a reason. He is so stubborn, though, and never likes to show emotion or be the first to "give in," so to speak. The first separation, we only reconciled because I reached out to him in a phone call after months of barely any contact and asked if we could see each other after he softened a little bit in his text communication. I don't know what would have happened if I had been more passive. I know that action went against everything this community encourages, but it just so happened to work that time.

I know I'm thinking too far ahead, but what if he doesn't contact me at all, for weeks or months, other than to tell me the papers are filed? Obviously not tonight or within the coming weeks, but do I reach out at all? I can't imagine a scenario where it would be warranted, if I'm following the DB rules.

I know everyone feels their situation is unique, but I truly have the feeling that mine is in the sense that I know my H will not ever follow through with filing regardless if it's what he wants. To him, doing so just means taking a day off work without pay and going through the hassle of figuring it out. Even if divorce is something he truly wants, I know he would wait for me to just do it for him to avoid the hassle.

I'm at a loss.


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I found something that resonated so closely with me on this forum, not just from my H but for me too, something we are both guilty of. I'd like to send it to him and I'd like to see if as a community this is a good or terrible idea to share with him. Apologies as I'm on mobile and can't remember who said this, but it's so accurate and messed up and beautiful and...accurate. To share or not to share?

[quoute]
There were two people, you and your W. Let's pretend there's a game being played. You have 10 cards you can choose from, A low, 10 high. Each time either of you interact with each other you have to decide to play a card symbolizing how you treat each other. A 10 means you choose to be extremely loving, selfless, generous, noble, and operate from your highest spiritual self. A 5 means you're having an average day, you're on auto pilot, you may do some things for your mate but aren't really engaged. A 3 is negative, critical, impatient. Below that is the red zone where it becomes destructive, controlling, and potentially abusive.

In the beginning each of you plays a 10 card. You both feel good about the love you're feeling, and feel good about the love you're getting. Somehow that's hard to maintain with life getting in the way. Eventually you notice the cards she's playing are 5s and 6s. This is frustrating. You came to really like 10s. In fact, when she was playing 10 cards you felt really good. When she plays 5s and 6s you feel dissatisfied. You get frustrated that she won't play the 10s like she used to.

Disappointment leads to frustration. Frustration leads to hurt. Hurt leads to anger. Anger that isn't addressed builds into resentment. Next thing you know, you don't feel loving. You don't feel like playing 10s much either. In fact, you start to resent even having to play 5s and 6s yourself. It's not fair! Why should she get everything she wants and needs and for her to neglect you with a series of 5s? You can't be happy with 5s, and you would be with 10s, so really it's her failure to do her job that is the cause for your unhappiness. You start to play lower and lower cards. Partly because you are so resentful you can't stand the thought of giving her what she wants while you're not getting what you want. Partly to try to "get her attention", or show her that something is wrong. And partly because you just don't have the loving feelings that generate bigger loving numbers.

You NEED big numbers to be happy. She's failing. You must force her to play bigger numbers. There's only one strategy left. Time to play some 2s and A's. Put the hammer down. Make it clear this is unacceptable. Either you give me what I want and deserve or I will make things absolutely unbearable. Verbal abuse. Withholding affection. Critical comments. Bullying. Whatever.

***OK, STOP THE GAME A MINUTE***

I described how it felt to play this game. If someone asked "what type of guy are you, are you the kind of guy that plays A's or 10's or what?", you'd respond "I'm a GREAT guy, I'll play 10s or at least pretty big cards most of the time". If someone asked "why did you play so many A's and 2's the last couple of years? That looked borderline abusive", you'd reply "WHOA! That's NOT ME. That's not who I am! I only played those cards because SHE left me no choice! She was playing 3's and 4's and not loving me the way I need to be loved! If she had done HER JOB right I would've been HAPPY to respond with 7s, 9s, and a 10 now and then!"

So the whole issue in your mind was the way she treated you, and how it caused you to respond. You don't identify with you behavior because you see it as a reflection of her failure.

BUT THERE ARE SOME TRUTHS
-YOU ARE THE CARDS YOU CHOOSE TO PLAY. If you play A's and 2's, you are abusive. Doesn't matter why. If you kill someone you're a murderer. If you rob a bank you're a bank robber. And when you choose to treat someone poorly, then you are a BAD H. PERIOD.

-IT'S NOT HER JOB TO PLAY 10S AND MAKE YOU HAPPY. Yes, 10s feel great. It's a nice treat in life to experience. But that's not life. Life isn't a series of sexual adventures, passionate date nights, back rubs, and sharing poetry. Why? I don't know. We build a tolerance to things and quickly expect them and take them for granted. Heck, even if she kept playing 10s they would start to feel like 7s to you quickly as you got used to it. Eventually people get to a level they can maintain (such as 5s through 8s with an occasional 10) and it starts to feel like a disappointment. AND IF YOU USED THE 10S TO MAKE YOURSELF FEEL GOOD ABOUT YOUR LIFE YOU WILL SUDDENLY FEEL DISCONTENT AND FEEL YOUR PARTNER IS TO BLAME. SHE'S NOT. You have to be happy on your own, and take what you get as a bonus.

-ONLY YOU GET TO DECIDE WHAT CARDS YOU PLAY. It doesn't matter if she plays 10s or 1s. *YOU* decide each day what type of person you are, how you want to respond. It's YOUR choice, not hers. She can play a 3 and you can STILL CHOOSE to respond with a 10.

CONCLUSION-

So, the funny part about all of this is that SHE FEELS THE SAME WAY. She thinks you didn't play the cards she needed to feel happy. She excuses all of her poor behavior as the "natural" reaction to being treated so poorly from you. She thinks what you did is far worse. This extends all the way to the "cheating". In her mind she would've never cheated had you not emotionally abused her for years, and it was only because of your actions that she was forced to take refuge in someone else to preserve herself. Then she remembered what a 10 felt like and decided that you were just an Ahole that played 1s-3s, and she can't have that in her life, and she found someone that plays 10s, so see ya later.

Now you're not playing the game anymore. There's no more interaction. SO YOU'RE NOT DEALING WITH THE DIFFICULTY OF BEING DISAPPOINTED OR RESENTFUL. You start to find it easier to act like a fine and upstanding citizen. This further proves to you that it must've been her driving you crazy. WRONG. It's easier to conduct yourself well on your own. You're not better! If you were in a relationship again tomorrow you'd be back on the downward spiral again, and you'd be dropping 2's and A's on people in a controlling way until they left you as well. Why? Because you haven't learned another way yet!

For you to judge her on the cards she was playing and excuse your cards because they were the only possible reaction is not going to get you anywhere.

Step one is acknowledging the truths above, taking ownership for your behavior REGARDLESS of the context, and deciding what type of man you want to be. Step two is forgiving her for the cards she's played because now you see how she's done nothing you haven't also done. Step three is learning how to take responsibility for your own happiness so you don't resent your future partner for not being able to chemically maintain euphoria in your life. And step four is learning coping mechanisms so that you are able to maintain responses between 5-10 even when you feel hurt, threatened, or rejected.
[/quote]


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I love that card game analogy. So simple yet so true. We need to be able to determine how we interaction/react regardless of how our spouses play the game. It is within our control, though early on this does not seem possible.

Don't get pulled into questioning if they deserve to be treated well. This is about how you want to BE/ACT and is independent of the other person. An important part of this is how you treat yourself too. You need to ensure you treat yourself with respect and accept no less from others.

Our spouses not loving us is hurtful but is not disrespectful in itself.They are not capable of that right now. Disrespect should not be accepted whether the R is loving or not. The lbs needs to realise they are independent of each other.

Thanks for repasting this analogy. I had not seen it in a while and it rings true.

Best wishes. I hope you follow the great wisdom and insight offered by wonka.


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Is there any way to send a message to a moderator? I just realized a silly but serious error I made in my choice of username that makes me very searchable by H.


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Hit the Notify button.


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Originally Posted By: jsxca
Is there any way to send a message to a moderator? I just realized a silly but serious error I made in my choice of username that makes me very searchable by H.

You can change your name by going up to MY STUFF and click edit profile.

Then change the display name to whatever you want, it will need to be approved by Virginia/the admin.

NOTIFY's are not working right now on this forum, I am upset about that myself too.


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Phew, thanks Cadet! I appreciate it.

So I made it through another night. I was planning on sending him a text message along the lines of what Wonka suggested, so I sent him a message asking if he was still awake. I'm glad he never responded, because the more I sat on it, the more I realized he doesn't really want to hear from me at all right now. Lesson learned, I need to stop reacting so quickly on my emotions!

But now he's responded, that he was asleep and asked me what was up. I'm not sure how to respond to that because well, I don't have anything to say now. Yikes. I'm not sure how to handle that? Any suggestions?

On a positive note, I feel like I've really hit a turning point today. For good reason, I've been pretty depressed lately and not taking the best care of myself. It's warranted of course, but it's time to pull myself up out of the hole I'm digging myself into. Today at work I was given the opportunity for a promotion, which would include paying for college courses that will give me a professional designation. Aside from the obvious advancement it will give me in my career, I'm so excited to have something to throw myself into to take my mind off of everything.


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bodhi,

I've got a bone to pick with you. You changed your username to bodhi which, in my gawd-awful male brain, translates to "body" and then it makes its way to "hot body." There's another woman on the forum with the username buxom.

There are a whole bunch of guys on this forum that haven't been satisfied in a long time, and speaking for myself, certain usernames start nagging at my lack of satisfaction. It's pure torture!

That said, I'd like to suggest some alternative usernames:

nose_hair
stinky
butt_pimple
ingrown_toenail
ear_wax
blue_cheese
fish_guts
gastro_intestinal_distress
booger
snot
roach_hotel
roadkill

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Originally Posted By: doodler
bodhi,

I've got a bone to pick with you. You changed your username to bodhi which, in my gawd-awful male brain, translates to "body" and then it makes its way to "hot body." There's another woman on the forum with the username buxom.

There are a whole bunch of guys on this forum that haven't been satisfied in a long time, and speaking for myself, certain usernames start nagging at my lack of satisfaction. It's pure torture!

That said, I'd like to suggest some alternative usernames:

nose_hair
stinky
butt_pimple
ingrown_toenail
ear_wax
blue_cheese
fish_guts
gastro_intestinal_distress
booger
snot
roach_hotel
roadkill




Doodler - STOP

Virginia is not going to approve multiple name changes, so we will accept this name change and support her with this one! smile smile smile


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Sorry, I was just kidding.

Although I did think of more alternative names...

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Originally Posted By: doodler
bodhi,

I've got a bone to pick with you. You changed your username to bodhi which, in my gawd-awful male brain, translates to "body" and then it makes its way to "hot body."


Ha! Funny. It's actually a Buddhist term in reference to Buddha's understanding of the true nature of things. I thought it was extremely fitting, not just for myself but for most of us on this forum.


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Doodler,

You are so funny! I am laughing out loud here at the office.

So glad you are keeping your sense of humor smile

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A Divorce Busting Coach can help you save your marriage, even when your spouse wants out.

Email virginia@divorcebusting.com or 303-444-7004 for more information or to get started right away.
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Well, I made it through another night. I went over to my neighbors' for a little bit to spend time with them and to keep myself busy. Also meal prepped enough food for the week. Like most people in the beginning stages, I haven't been eating very much so I've been trying to have an abundance of healthy food precooked so I can force myself to eat a little something every night without the added hassle of bringing myself to cook every night.

This Sunday will mark an entire month since he's moved out, and I cannot believe it. Every day and minute goes slow, but the weeks are going by fast. He should be receiving the signed copies of the divorce papers today.

The worst part is, H has always put off doing any type of errand or responsibility, sometimes even when there are legal repercussions for not doing so. Given that he would also have to take a day off work without pay, figure out the filing process on his own, and to top it off have to pay the filing fee, I don't see him being motivated to get it done. With that being said, the hardest struggle of the coming months are going to be: "Is he not filing because he is being lazy, or is he not filing because he has changed his mind?"

Nothing to actually report, but it makes me feel a bit better to post here anyways.


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Hope everyone had a good weekend. The weekends are really hard for me, but Monday's seem to be even harder. This weekend marked one month that he's been gone. It doesn't seem to be getting easier.

It's been one week since we've had any form of communication, and I don't see him contacting me in the foreseeable future whatsoever. He might not ever contact me again.

I keep wondering if it would be so horrible to send him a quick message. I'm still getting his mail. Maybe I could at least remind him to get that forwarded.

I'm crushed today.


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Any thoughts on reaching out for that reason? Or should I maybe just go ahead and start the forwarding myself? I know he is stubborn. He won't reach out to me, even if he wants to.


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Originally Posted By: bodhi
I'm still getting his mail. Maybe I could at least remind him to get that forwarded.


My wife finally got her addressed changed for almost all of her mail except Victoria's Secret. I still get the Victoria's Secret catalogs. My wife is attempting to kill me, but I'm not letting that happen. The catalogs go straight to the trashcan; I don't even look at the covers.

I am going to set a boundary with my wife. I'm going to buy a VS bra for myself and the next time she drops our sons off, I'm going to be wearing the bra (without a shirt). I'll let her know that I'll continue wearing the bra until she stops the onslaught of VS catalogs. How's that for setting a boundary and enforcing the consequences?

I'm hoping to set an example for others.

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Haha! You crack me up doodler smile

Really though, I don't know if I should reach out to him or not. I feel like I desperately want a temperature check, and I don't want to be completely no contact. He is so, so stubborn and I know regardless of his wants will wait for me to reach out to him first, as that's how it always has been in our relationship. Just a quick "hey, how are ya, FYI, I'm still getting all your mail."

Also begs the question of text message or phone call. I'm pretty sure the phone call will go straight to voicemail.


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bodhi,

The only honest answer I can give you is that I don't know what's best. You're clearly pining for him. Does he want any contact with you?

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I honestly have no idea. The last thing that he had said to me was that he "wished very badly it went any other way" (than the divorce). We haven't talked since then, so I don't really know what's going on with him.

One part of me says "absence makes the heart grow fonder," the other part of me says "out of sight, out of mind." At the same time I keep thinking if he wanted contact with me, he would do so. But at the same time, all I want is contact with him and yet I'm not contacting him. As I mentioned, he's extremely stubborn. So that could be it. Or it could be that he really wants a divorce and is just moving on and not contacting me to make that easier on himself.

It's really, really confusing.


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I don't know though...like I said, I feel I'm just reaching for a temperature check...I'm doing good with the 180 and GAL, I've been working out and spending time with friends and going to events, making strides at work and taking good care of my house and myself. But there's all this doubt in my head. I feel like for my own sanity I need this divorce to either be halted or finished off with. I wish if he was truly done he would just file the paperwork already. There's nothing stopping him if a divorce is what he really wants. The only thing I asked for in the dissolution was for him to please not drag his feet, and that's just what he's doing.


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bodhi,

I know exactly what you're talking about. I've been there. It's the need to have some resolution; anything to stop the pain of being in limbo. That's very difficult.

I'm hoping a veteran will stop by and give you something more concrete. I don't think contacting him about his mail is an issue. I think the problem is that you'll try to prolong the contact and that may tend to drive him further away.

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Originally Posted By: doodler

I don't think contacting him about his mail is an issue. I think the problem is that you'll try to prolong the contact and that may tend to drive him further away.


That was my thinking, that it probably wouldn't be an issue to do that in and of itself. I definitely don't plan on taking the conversation any further than that, but then...I guess what would be my point in the first place?

He'd probably just say "okay thanks" and end the conversation there, so there's not really anything I'd be getting out of it. I don't see him saying much else past that. Maybe he would though. I'm at a loss.


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bodhi,

I think you came to the correct conclusion. I'm very sorry it's all so hard and frustrating and confusing.

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Perhaps I'll give it another week, or maybe two. After all, it has only been a week since we last talked. I'm sure he hasn't come to any revolutionary conclusions about what he wants in that time.

The last time that we were separated and reconciled, all I did was give him some space and then call him about a month later and asked if we could talk. Next thing I know, he drove over to our house and we were back together.

I hope to god I can recreate that.


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bodhi,

I'd bet you can recreate that and I'll forward all of those Victoria's Secret cataloges to you so that you can buy some persuasive attire for him. I knew my wife's crappy mail would be good for something.

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bodhi,

And the attire isn't for him to wear; you'd be buying it for him by proxy, but you'd be the one wearing it. I just wanted to be clear...

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If only!

This is all so hard. I feel like things would be exponentially easier if he was living at home. Unfortunately for me, we both owned separate houses before the marriage so when he decides to leave all he has to do really is pack a quick bag and he's out.

I'm trying to stay positive. From today on, I'm not going to talk in negative statements. "I don't want a divorce" is going to become "I want my marriage to work."


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Still here....know I've been posting a lot today. I feel like I'm losing my mind a bit.

I want so badly to ask him when he is filing. It's not fair not having any idea what's going on. I have very limited vacation time at work (only 5 days a year), and me and my girlfriend are planning a cruise for early next year. I want to know what's going on, dammit.

He's already told me it's over, I just want to know the logistics now. I want to know what his plans are. It's too painful to sit around and wait for him to make a decision, I'd rather just rip the band-aid off at this point.


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Evening all. How's everyone's night?

Against my better judgement I did wind up texting the H. It went okay. I asked him how he was doing, then said I was just sending him a quick reminder that I'm still getting all of his mail at the house. I think I did a pretty good job of keeping things short and sweet. He told me things weren't going well and said he'd take care of the mail. I told him I was sorry to hear and asked if everything was okay. He opened up and told me he lost his job. I responded by saying that must be frustrating but I'm sure he'll find another one soon, because he's good at what he does. I sent along a picture as well that came up on my phone as one year ago today, of a funny character we met traveling.

The picture may have been a bit too much, because I never heard back. I was hoping to be the one to end the conversation, but he seemed to be opening up so I didn't think it would end so abruptly.

I don't know what to make of him losing his job, though.


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I thought I'd start a new thread, in light of some pretty good news. The last thread ended with a text conversation with my husband. We wound up talking on the phone for a good 20 minutes later that night. Lots of tears on my end once the phone call was ended, and I followed it up with a text that I wasn't giving up hope on the marriage until there was a court date set.

The next day he sent me a text that was both wonderful and terrible to read. On one hand, he isn't sure if he's with me out of convenience...I asked for clarification on that and he meant that it was easier to stay with me because we love each other and have been together for so long. Still hurtful, but okay. He did mention that he has never been with anyone except me, and questioned "with 8 billion other people in the world, who's to say we're soulmates?" That bit really, really stung. He followed up with "maybe we are, maybe we aren't, but if we are we may have a future down the road."

On the other hand, he agreed to hold off on divorce and be separated. He said that he still doesn't know what's what, and was only pushing divorce because when I was upset I wanted it expedited and he was trying to be civil. He misread me entirely (I only ever said I wanted it handled if he had made a final decision that it was what he wanted).

I asked if we could be in some contact throughout, and also said that if no contact was preferred that was fine but to let me know. Never heard back on that one. My head's been spinning. One part of me says that he has a valid point, another part of me feels like this is just a free pass for him to cheat.

Baby steps. Progress.

Last edited by Cadet; 07/27/16 12:53 PM. Reason: merged posts

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Sorry to do this but it is best to stick to one thread until 100 posts.
So I merged this thread into the previous one.

You can re-title posts in the middle of it if you wish.

Glad you feel that you have good news.

I would caution you to believe nothing he says.
Trust Actions not words.


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Originally Posted By: Cadet
Sorry to do this but it is best to stick to one thread until 100 posts.
So I merged this thread into the previous one.

You can re-title posts in the middle of it if you wish.

Glad you feel that you have good news.

I would caution you to believe nothing he says.
Trust Actions not words.


No worries! I didn't notice that rule, thank you for fixing it for me instead of just deleting it so I didn't have to retype it smile

For your bit of advice, which part do you suggest I believe? I guess his action is that he is not filing for the divorce, at least not yet. That to me says that there's at least still a chance at things working out. His action of not responding to my last message though definitely tells me he does not want to talk to me, at least not right now.

The anxiety that it sounds like he'll be seeking someone else out is what has me nervous. It also makes me feel like he doesn't really care if things work out, notably because he said he knows I have guys knocking down my door begging to take me out. I guess I feel like if he cared, he'd be worried about that. He doesn't seem to be.


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bohi - This could be another classic case of "cake-eating" too. If he's not sure that things will work out, preserving you as a "plan b" while he continues to do what he will is a common wayward practice. I know that my WW would panic any time it appeared that I was going to do anything irreversible that would hurt her fall-back security while at the same time announcing to me and all her friends and presumably OM that she was leaving. I never used the "D" word on her though - perhaps I should have earlier.

Be careful and don't trust words and only partially trust actions.


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Originally Posted By: bodhi
"with 8 billion other people in the world, who's to say we're soulmates?"


Flip that around. Who is to say you are NOT soulmates?

If he thinks long term partners are just out there to be found ... he's a fool.

I like the article, "Why You Will Marry the Wrong Person" by Alain de Botton, published in the New York Times. I can't link it here, but if you Google the title, it comes up first. It's all about why there is no perfect partner out there. I mean, there is, for the first 3 years when you're infatuated....


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bodhi -- I would be wary. With him losing his job, you have to be careful he's not doing just enough to keep you on the hook as backup/security in case things really fall apart for him. Probably not what you want to hear, but I've already seen in my month+ here that these things rarely go fast or smoothly for any of those us in our sitch.

I hope I'm 100% wrong!


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That is definitely the thing I fear, that I am the back up plan. Plan B. I'm trying to come to terms with if I'm comfortable with that being the case. On one hand, our relationship was pretty toxic and he is right that being separated is the best thing for us. It's the way he words it that brings out my anxiety.

I also do see his validity though. He is naive. He has never dated anyone aside from me. He has only slept with one other woman, one time. He also doesn't receive a lot of female attention.

I on the other hand have experience under my belt. I had a couple of boyfriends before him, none long term but I've also slept with people other than him. No way to humbly say this, but I've always received a lot of male attention, even during our marriage. I know that I could have most anyone that I wanted, and despite that chose him. To be frank, logistically I have many, many better options than my husband. But he is the one who has my heart, and I'm confident in my love for him.

I'm not defending him necessarily because I feel like despite my flaws I have been a fantastic wife and I AM ENOUGH. I'm only trying to see it from his point of view. Maybe I am giving him too much credit, though. I'm not sure.

Part of me wants to tell him that it is over, that I do not want a separation, that being plan B is not enough of a reason for me to wait for him. I will say that I am not worried about dignity or pride. At the end of the day I am plan B and he decides he does want a divorce, I will not let that make me feel foolish.

At the end of the day, it's my decision and only I can make it, but I'm curious to see an outside perspective. In my shoes, would you personally wait or walk?


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I guess one thing that makes me feel like waiting is the right decision is because, aren't we all kind of "Plan B" here anyways if reconciliation happens with a WAS? Unless of course your WAS is separating with only the intention of working on the marriage, but I see more stories on here of the spouse intending for divorce or having an A.

Otherwise, everyone's spouse here leaves because they think the grass will be greener, their Plan A. If they realize Plan A isn't working out like they imagined, and realize that they want to work on the M, isn't that technically Plan B anyways?

Maybe I'm grasping a little for hope.


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Sorry if this sounds flippant but you're 24, attractive, and have no kids involved, and your H wants to walk away and/or use you as plan B ... if it was me, I'd walk.

Different if there are kids involved.


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I toss that thought around in my mind a lot. I'm 24, a good looking woman who takes care of herself, am at the start of a successful career in finance. When I moved out at age 18 I was making $64 a week and made it work. Now I'm making almost 10 times that after only 6 years, if that tells you anything about my motivation. I own my own house, have a nice car, am fiercely loyal (to a fault), I like to think I am pretty intelligent, and I am kind, thoughtful and generous.

I hate to talk down about my H, but he is 27, has trouble holding jobs, is not great with personal hygiene or self-care, does not have a lot of ambition (I have outright been called a snob and materialistic for wanting a nicer house someday), and most importantly does not seem to care about me. He one time ("jokingly," he said) told someone that it was too bad he didn't wind up with a former classmate who had a crush on him in middle school because she wound up being a model. He is a habitual liar, not only to me but everyone. Even about stupid little things. If he doesn't feel like seeing someone when invited out he'll lie about having to do something else. Wants to end a phone call? He'll tell them he's about to sit down for dinner when I haven't even started cooking. Up until he quit his job, he was bringing home more money than me and still, I had to pay ALL of the bills. At his best he was contributing half, and only months later when I begged for his share.

I'd like to say he has redeeming qualities, but they all center around me enjoying spending time with him...which in an argument he has told me he does not enjoy doing. Whether or not that was true, I'll never know.

Of course, I have flaws and faults too. The important thing is I'm working on identifying and improving them though.


M 24 H 27
together 6 • married 3.5
BD round #3: 07/10/2016
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,387
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Bodhi (good name choice, by the way) --

I'm not a knee-jerk fan of therapy, and good therapists are really hard to find IMO, and I don't think therapists provide some magic bullet solution, but in your case I think having some good, hard, constructive, insightful conversations with a therapist about why the heck someone like you is so damn in love with someone like you H ... might help you sort out your feelings, and give you support for making the right decision.

You're lucky that you're young and do not have any kids involved. It gets hell of a lot harder when there are kids involved.


Me: 50, MLC/WW 45
Young kids
Nov 2015: BD1
Apr 2016: BD2
Jan 2017: W filed
Feb 2017: D final
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,387
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p.s. I'm sorry if I appear to devalue your suffering, with my comment about youth and kids. I realize it's very painful for many of us here, and each of us suffer in unique ways.


Me: 50, MLC/WW 45
Young kids
Nov 2015: BD1
Apr 2016: BD2
Jan 2017: W filed
Feb 2017: D final
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 31
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No offense taken! I understand what you mean, and you're not the first or even the first hundredth to tell me so. I have gone through some therapy and plan on returning when my life calms down a little bit, but I do have it pretty well figured out in my head.

Basically it boils down that 18 year old me didn't really see any red flags, or the ones I do I shrugged off and chalked up to typical 21 year old guy behavior. As time went by and we spent more time together, I fell in love hard and fast. When he asked me to marry him, I knew his flaws and figured naturally as we got older, we would both grow up. Because yano, that's what people usually do! And I do truly love him, so over time while I have grown more bitter and intolerant, the loves been pretty unwavering. Add in an unhealthy dose of codependency on my end, and that hits the nail on the head of the when, where and why of my situation.

Today I'm at the point of being ready to throw in the towel and wanting to tell him so. I'm sick of being with someone who doesn't even care enough to respond to a cordial text. I think it's completely unfair that we've come to the conclusion of taking a separation now, but not discussing any details of it. I asked a simple yes or no question, can we be in limited contact during this?

Obviously the silence gave me my answer, but it makes his intentions and motives seem anything but sincere, and makes me feel like this is nefarious. For pete's sake, I gave him the option of saying no even!


M 24 H 27
together 6 • married 3.5
BD round #3: 07/10/2016
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