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Starting a new thread. Old thread here:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...049#Post2691049

It has been a heck of a year. I've tried to DB as best as I could. I think I have done OK and WW has been making moves back towards over the last few months. I'll open this thread with my girl Feyth's quote from my previous thread:

Originally Posted By: Feyth
Hi Pinn,
Good plan. I agree with Sotto. Just sit back. No pushing.

It seems like you had a nice weekend. Yeah!

Here's a nugget to just keep under your hat for now. She is wondering why you are not pursuing. But why would you? After BD and all the messiness around it, why would you? You both haven't had the R talk and it's no place to bring it up yourself right now. But seriously, after all that went down, you are supposed to pine after her with no discussion about the sitch and no remorse expressed by her? Really?

We know DBing and we know that we have to treat them like a scared squirrel and get them to come to us so its not appropriate (right now) for you to be placing emotional boundaries at all. Right now the goal (if you want to R) is to build that friendship... But I think it's interesting that she is openly wondering why you are not pursuing even after she behaved so poorly a year ago. I would like to see her express a little trepidation in approaching you... After all YOU are the prize. You've done the work. Has she?and is she worth it?

Again, no action is needed from you right now, but don't act just because she wants you to. That seems like it would be taking one tiny step back into your old habits. Overall, however, I think you are staying true to yourself through this process and no matter what happens you'll be better than fine. Sit back... Keep letting her come to you a little bit longer... Keep being a friendly neighbor.


Great post Feyth... always making me think! I appreciate that.

That is a great point! Why should I pine for her? I actually want to say that to her, but that probably would not be a good move. You are right, we have not had a serious R talk yet and I am certainly not going to bring it up right now. I think she has shown small tid bits of remorse here and there, but certainly not enough. I think it could come with time though.

I am not sure if she has done the work, I don't think I can ask or make demands at the moment. The only thing I know that she has done is that she read the 5 love languages after I suggested it. Besides that I've told her it would be a ton of work. I think she would be fine with consuling. I think she would be fine with no contact in regards to the felon. He is not of concern to me, that was never going to work. Future OM2 or 3 or 4 is what concerns me. I think she would be hesitant to a transparency plan. So in terms of work, I guess we will see if she wants to put in the effort or not. Worst case is that I am in this same spot 2-3-5-10 years down the road. I would rather get divorced now.

Is she worth it? Not sure. I am certainly tired of dealing with this over the course of the last 20ish years.

Yea I think I will let her pursue a bit more. Maybe I am taking a small step backwards, not sure. She has been aggressive lately but we'll see if it continues. I think a serious R discussion will have to happen soon. Either way I'll keep on keeping on. Half marathon sunday!

Thanks Feyth!!

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Heading into the city with WW again tonight. Moving too fast? Moving too slow? Am I doing the right thing? Does this even mean anything?? I try not to even think of any of that right now. I go, have a good time, see a bit of the girl I married, come home and keep moving forward. I just focus on the time and not worry about the future. No expectations and I really don't have any. I feel like her asking to move back in and her asking to move forward with D are equally likely.

Things have been pretty much the same this week. The contact is about 65/35 at the moment, her being the 65. I still maintain my plans and do not plan around things with her in mind. I have a half marathon on sunday and have plans to go hiking one day next weekend.

I do think we have entered a new phase though and I think I need to re-read divorce busting with this perspective in mind. When I read it the last time, I was in a completely different mind set and being in this position was so so far away.

Oh yea, tomorrow is the anniversary of her moving out... go figure.

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Dinner was good once again. WW looked good. She was being more physical this time which threw me off my game for sure. Nothing major but things like interlocking arms, hand holding etc which does not seem like a lot, but when you have not had that for 13 months it is strange to have it back. It definitely made me feel awkward and a bit uncomfortable to be honest.

Anyway, we had a nice dinner and then sat outside watching a crazy lightening storm for a while talking. It was funny she was talking about her car and how she is ready for a new one. She goes you know I like to switch in and out...I was like yea I know you like to switch things up. She was goes what is that supposed to mean? then I just changed the subject.

I walk her back to her car and she gives me a real tight hug and hits me with a pretty good kiss. Not overly passionate or anything, but a kiss nonetheless. I was thinking about doing it all night... it would have been a good 180 but I just couldn't bring myself to do it.

Now I guess I just keep doing the same thing right? I feel like we need a relationship talk but I don't want to bring it up. Just keep going slow and know that one has to happen if anything is going to really change in our situation.

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Year anniversary of WW moving out... Pretty surreal. Any thoughts on where I am at currently. I would love some opinions to make sure I stay grounded. Enjoy the weekend dbr's!

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You are doing that which works!

What do I know

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ugh as a person who has just begun his separation. Ugh, I dont need this sappy, positive lovey thing. Keep it up!!


Me31 W31 M11yrs S6yrs
23Mar16-BD
9Apr16-W admitted EA w boss.
27Jun16-W Changed job and promised NC w OM.
14Jul16-Continued contact w OM.Start of Separation.
24May17-Divorced.
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Yea Natus.. well it can all change over night so I gotta keep the focus on me.

Sandi do you have any thoughts? Not sure if you still follow my situation or not.

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Hahaha Natus you crack me up!! I am in month 3 of separation...gag this lovey crap...hahahah JK...hope it keeps up Pinn!!


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I wouldn't make any sudden moves. If what you are doing is drawing her closer, then why change now?

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Thank Dark.. I am not really looking to change anything. I am just looking for some feedback if I am doing that sends out red flags to the DB'ing community. Or maybe some advice. K The worst worst worst case scenario is we get back together only to be back here in a few years. I'd rather get divorced now but I do not have a crystal ball. It is a weird spot to be in. LRT etc was easier in some ways.

I guess one thing to do is to really think about what it would take for us to get back together so that I am at least ready for the conversation, not that I would expect that.

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Yo Pinn!
I honestly don't feel qualified to give advice on what works, but I don't think you are sending out any red flags at all. Keep that patience up and keep doing what you are doing- slow and steady (and I think the general consensus is- if you think you are going slow- go slower). If she pressures you, don't take the bait and react too quickly. She's still the skiddish squirrel that you are trying to get to come to you.

Overall I think YOU are doing great. I'm proud of you for the progress that you have been making. What a difference a year makes, right? Just keep being awesome. You'll end up on top- I just know it! As for your WW.... Again only time will tell if she has made any changes during your time apart and it will likely be up to YOU if you want to try and made it work.


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Thanks feyth!! Such kind words, I am so appreciative! I am just going with the flow.

Ran a half marathon this weekend, what a disaster. I hurt my Achilles at mile 4 but of course kept going. I finished with my slowest time ever but could barely walk the next day. It is getting better now though. Too bad to because I crushed those first 4 miles and it was a beautiful course. My marathon training has been put on hold though 😒.

Going hiking this weekend. Not sure if I will see WW this weekend or not. I didn't contact her on Monday but she followed up with early morning txts Tuesday and Wednesday.... Steady as she goes

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Oh No! I'm sorry to hear about your injury. Ugh. I've set myself back 5 weeks with my ankle, and trying to catch up is hard. Rest up. Lots of stretching!

Congrats on getting another half under your belt. Too funny- I will be hiking this weekend too! Watch for rocks and have fun!


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Thanks Feyth! Yea the Achilles is being a biotch. Haven't been able to run for a week and a half. Hiking with my brother was awesome even on a partially bum ankle. I loved it! We are planning on doing Mt Washington in a few weeks. I hope your hike adventure was awesome!

I had a quick dinner with WW on sunday. It was OK. She wanted to sit on the same side of a booth which we actually never did before. I am having a bit of trouble with these couple like things. The last two dinners have been a bit uncomfortable. We are going to a baseball game next weekend so after that I think it will have to be time for a talk.

So last night I get a bunch of texts from WW. Normal stuff at first and then she gets in to how my sis, sister in law and basically a few female friends due to our marriage had unfriended her on facebook. Freaking facebook I'll tell ya. She was complaining about it and normally I would have been like... well... what do you expect? But I thought this was a great time for a 180. I listened and validated. I think that went well.

I don't know if I can do this again. It is de ja vu all over again. This would basically be the 4th time that we start again (only married once, the others were pre marriage). Every time it is the same thing... she ends it, does her thing for a while, comes back, is worried that everyone hates her, we are together for a while, she ends it... rinse and repeat. I am not sure how I can stop the cycle if we ended up back together. I have some ideas but I am not sure the risk would be worth it. I am getting old and want a family. hmph... I don't know.

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pinn - thanks for pointing me to your thread. This has been quite the battle for you but I think you can be proud and hold your head high no matter the outcome.

One thing that came to mind while reading this was something that a friend told me about giving up that I thought you would appreciate. She said that when you are running a marathon you don't give up, you just have to do it one step at at time.

I'll certainly be looking forward to your updates.


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Originally Posted By: pinn
I don't know if I can do this again. It is de ja vu all over again. This would basically be the 4th time that we start again (only married once, the others were pre marriage). Every time it is the same thing... she ends it, does her thing for a while, comes back, is worried that everyone hates her, we are together for a while, she ends it... rinse and repeat. I am not sure how I can stop the cycle if we ended up back together. I have some ideas but I am not sure the risk would be worth it. I am getting old and want a family. hmph... I don't know.


First, I extend my encouragement and hopefully others are inspired...I want an arrow board pointing at the move out date and the fact that it took a year for stuff to start to swing in your direction.

Second, I quoted you to say I know the feeling. I think I'm on the 3rd time of this Break up, go away, come back thing w/ my WW - save the fact that she is not back this time and who knows if she will be back. Difference now is we are married and have a child. Maybe the cycle wont stop for us? I would hope age would make it stop, but there seem to be enough people here in their late 50"s/early 60's to shoot that idea in the face. So maybe it won't maybe it will. Congrats on feeling better though and on those marathons, hell of a GAL, I like it.


"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies.
BD: Feb '16
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Piecing: Putting the self back together was my piecing.
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Thanks Andrew and CT for stopping by. I appreciate the responses.

Yea my GAL has been pretty rewarding. It is the best thing that has happened during all of this. I really believe my social skills have improved along with my confidence which is great.

I haven't communicated with WW in a few days which is interesting. No plans to see her this weekend which would be the first weekend without seeing her in a month or so. That's OK though, I have some things planned. I think it is time for her to make her the effort and make it clear she wants to get together. If she asks about the lack of communication then it might be time for a bit of a truth dart stating that is on her to prove that this is what she wants... not sure about that one yet. We'll see how it goes.

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Crazy how things flow... went from doing couply type things to now on the 5th day of NC. It is crazy. Not sure of the unfriending by the girls thing got to her or what but like Feyth said it really should be on her to push for things. She is the one who has something to prove not me so I'll just keep on keeping on. I am getting tired though and really starting to think about next steps. But for now, I do nothing...just sit back and watch :-). Hope everyone is having a great weekend!

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And just like that I am back to wanting to throw in the towel. The ups and downs are insane. I do not understand the point of this state we are in. How can we be separated for over a year and never once discuss actual next steps. Does that make sense to anyone? I feel like I am going to have to be the one to bring this situation to a head.

72 hour rule in full effect right now, WW's previous texts deleted from phone to try and stop any urge I might have to contact (her contact info is not in my phone so it requires extra effort to contact her). I just get so frustrated sometimes! Just with the limbo land, not with wanting her back or anything. ugh!

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Originally Posted By: pinn
And just like that I am back to wanting to throw in the towel. The ups and downs are insane. I do not understand the point of this state we are in. How can we be separated for over a year and never once discuss actual next steps. Does that make sense to anyone? I feel like I am going to have to be the one to bring this situation to a head.


pinn - I'm more than guilty of it than anyone but we both need to stop looking at the calendar and counting the days.


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It sounds like you're having a heck of a rollercoaster with your ww. But I must say the way you are handling it and getting on with your own thing is really admirable.

I strongly agree with the vets that if it comes to positive signs of them wanting to have another go at the r, they really need to make the moves and show remorse and take it slow. When I went through this last year. I pretty much jumped at the first sign of my h wanting back in. And it was great for a few months, then he dipped in and out. And now I find myself back here, pregnant with his 2nd child and alone.

Keep focused on you and taking each day as it comes, you're doing great


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Thanks Cherry and Andrew for stopping by. It means the world.

I think I have been keeping a pretty level head in regards to her advances. She has never actually said sorry but has said things like ‘this is all my fault’ and ‘I don’t know what I was thinking’. She is the one who gives me some physical attention, I certainly do not initiate that. I need to see consistency from her. I do not understand this on and off again stuff. But I am tired. After 13+ months this is getting old fast. I walk around and see women in a completely new light now. If she brings up the no contact we have experienced lately, I am going to drop a truth bomb stating that she is the one with something to prove more or less. I feel like I am being forced in a R talk with her that I will have to initiate. We cannot continue like this. This is the worst situation to be in (yes I would much rather be divorced).

I do need some advice. I am so mad at myself. During one of our dinners a few weeks we discussed going to a sox game. So I looked over the schedule and the only weekend game available upcoming was for this Saturday… about 4 weeks out. I said to myself… I can’t do that, it’s too far out, who knows what things will be like then. I even mentioned it to her the following weekend. She says.. far away? It is in three weeks and I really want to go with you. Too me, three weeks is an eternity. So fast forward to now. We haven’t spoken in days and all positive momentum has been lost. I have zero interest in going as buddies. What would you do? I think I am going to wait and see how things go the next few days and if nothing happens then give them away later this week. I’ll take this as another lesson learned.

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pinn - my W still hasn't contacted me about anything R related but it's only been a few weeks since she walked out. IF she does reach out I'm expecting a similar monologue as my W pretty much never said "sorry" for anything in all our years married. I'm still not sure how I'll handle it.

One major thing for me to even consider talking to her would be that she would have to end the A and do a solid dumping of OM. There's really no point in my mind of talking to her while that is an option for her. I'm not interested in being part of any sort of comparison shopping she may be doing. I don't recall reading anywhere that your WW has cut off her A or not.

Another way to look at it - you wouldn't want to engage in a R with a woman who was already in one. If OM is still around she is in one with him and that makes you more the OM/OM - a role that I'm sure none of us want.

Is she your "buddy" or are you her cake baker? Sorry - harsh words here I know. I hope you have physical custody of the Sox tickets - I'm sure you can either find someone else to go with or enjoy the freedom of an empty seat beside you to hold your drink and ball glove.


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Originally Posted By: pinn
This is the worst situation to be in (yes I would much rather be divorced).


Why would being divorced be better?

If you ant to be divorced, why not file yourself?

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Thanks again Andrew. I don't know if my WW had an affair or not. Of course I think she did but I don't think about it. Who knows.

wow dark... Are you sure you weren't here before?!? One of my favorite posters spoke just like and said this same thing to me before. Makes me wonder...

Anyway, filing myself is an option though I think it would be to my benefit financially if she did it or if we agreed to it. Agreeing to it might be what she is angling for, no idea.

I love this question of why would divorced be better. It is finality. Once we are D, I'll never speak to her again, I can't. It's not fair to me, to her or anyone we would be with. I also cannot be in a relationship with anyone until we are divorced, my conscious will not allow it. I should be at the beginnings of starting a family at this point not going through this. That's how it would be better. I mean, I am basically divorced now anyway, just not officially.

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Hi Pinn! Happy Monday!

I want to pose some questions that were essentially posed to me by the awesome KML over in the MLC thread--- these are not verbatim at all, but these types of questions got me thinking really hard.... It's not necessarily DBing, but it's real and when folks like you and I who are in fairly young marriages without children... It may be ok to take a different approach to DBing. As you know, it's about saving yourself first.

Do you really want your ww back?
What makes her the best marriage partner for you?
What is her stance on children/family?
Do you think she's going to be a great mom to your future children?

Believe me, nothing was going to prevent me from standing for my marriage- nothing. Come hell or high water, I was going to stand forever because I made a promise in front of God, my friends and family..... For better for worse, till death parts us. I meant those words with every ounce of my being. But enough time has passed and I'm a different person than I was a year ago... I'm not so sure I want to be in a r with my h anymore. In fact, I'm 98% sure I don't. We had issues/ he had issues..... Yes, I think I am capable at working through those issues now.... But the sad thing is, I'm not sure he's worth it anymore. I'm not. He would not be a good father.... Even if he worked through his childhood issues.... His commitment track record tells me otherwise ( with business, friends, me). Would I risk it knowing this was a possibility? A very real possibility?

If you let go.... It's ok. It has to be the right decision for you. Yes... That's anti DB, but I think you've done what you can. Just look at the situation realistically. She has a track record of this behavior....


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Thanks Feyth... you are the best. Those are some deep questions. She would be a great mom but I am not sure she wants kids. She always said she did but was she just saying that because she knew I wanted them?? Every time I tried to actually talk about it she would not want to... I guess that is a clue that she really didn't?? I don't know. I would like to ask her sometime.

The first two questions I have to really think about. The pattern of this behavior is really concerning. hmph.

What are your next steps or are you just continuing with the status quo??

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Hi Pinn,
Don't mean to hijack your thread, but to answer your question... I guess I'm continuing with the status quo. I didn't want the d so I'm not filing, but the feelings that I had towards h don't exist. I can't even muster feelings up. I think THIS is what they mean by emotional detachment. Literally, the feelings have exited the building. It's just nothing.... It's a little sad, but it's not bad at all. With the absence of those feelings I'm actually happy... I mean it.... I have joy in my life right now. All those threads that connect emotions to h have been cut I guess.

Of course, this has been the norm for a week or so now, so who knows what can happen next week!

Keep on keeping on, buddy!


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Ahh I see...That emotional detachment is great! Keep doing your thang!

Been an interesting week. WW final sent a text earlier in the week after about a week of NC. She said: "You haven't said two words to me in over a week...". I said "Oh I'm sorry, did I miss your two words?" with the mischievous/ sarcastic emoji (I love that guy). I then dropped a bit of a truth dart saying that it is certainly not my responsibility to keep communication going, it is on her. Is that proper DB'ing?? Don't know and didn't really care, I was getting tired of it. Anyway, she didn't take too kindly to that but at least it got a conversation going.

My mother had not been feeling and had to go to the ER on wed night and remains there.. but she is doing better and should be going home soon.

So the communication with WW improved during the week. She asked if I still wanted to go the ball game, I said yes, so we went last night. It was a great time, just like the old days. She again does some physical things (hand holding, arm an arm, kiss etc), but I still am not comfortable with it.

So obv I am in a tough spot. If you read through this thread, my mind swings wildly from D to not, and everywhere in between. Not really sure how to handle things. I see women who I am interested in everywhere now (my mom ended up on cute nurse floor I swear!).

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Originally Posted By: pinn

My mother had not been feeling and had to go to the ER on wed night and remains there.. but she is doing better and should be going home soon.

So obv I am in a tough spot. If you read through this thread, my mind swings wildly from D to not, and everywhere in between. Not really sure how to handle things.


pinn - Great to hear that your Mom is doing better.

I would suggest perhaps cooling down with the dating etc of your WW. From outside it looks like she's deliberately manipulating you into baking her a cake.


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Thanks Andrew... I *think* I disagree though (but probably could be convinced otherwise). This has been a slow slog since April to get to this point. I'm not sure I see the cake eating part. What cake is she eating exactly? It is pretty much a two way street at this point. It's not like I am letting her dump all her problems on me like a gay boyfriend, there is no financial support from me, and I am not constantly chasing after her. I don't know maybe I am missing something? We get together about once every week and a half or so at the moment. I don't know.. maybe I guess

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pinn - From what I see she is chasing after you and you're letting her catch you without her having to quit OM. She's keeping her Plan B warm.

I can certainly feel for your enthusiasm for her attention and perhaps she's not even doing it cynically to keep you around but like people have written on my own thread she's not worried about losing you and now she has both OM and you. Win/win for her.


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I am not sure I would call it enthusiasm.. more trepidation actually.

I'm not sure what the deal is with OM.. I have 100% no idea. I have no idea of the original level of involvement with OM nor do I really care (obv there would come a time when we have to discuss it and the felon I suspect of being involved on some level would have to be on a NC list). I could mind read and say it is over between them, I could mind read and say that once she leaves me she goes back and cozies up to him... I have no clue, so I don't worry about it. I can only control what I can control.

I don't think we can compare situations yet Andrew. I have been living separately for over a year, went months with NC and very very slowly have gotten to this point. My WW knows exactly (100%) what it is like to be without me. I feel I am detached enough to show that she doesn't have us both. (ie over a week NC recently, no prob and I had no plans to contact her)

I think it might be time for a little heart to heart.

Andrew has giving me food for thought... be interested in some vets opinions... maybe I am barking up the wrong tree.

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I think it may be time for a simple question for her.


What does she want?

Funny thing. I am still here all the time but haven't posted much. Actually, I can only post from my phone as I stay logged in. My computer forgot the password and I forgot it as well. For some reason when I do the forgot password thing I don't get anything. I will figure it out but I am not updating my situation from my phone. Way to long of a post!

I don't honk you have anything to lose anymore.


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just read all your threads. took like 2 hours...

seems like you're stuck and she's just keeping you around just enough.

glad you're doing you though, I'm sure that helps to not get fully sucked in!

-C


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Hey OTW... I was thinking about you the other day. Get that password figured out so we can get an update! We think along similar lines. I think it is time for that question. Just need the right time to bring it up.

Originally Posted By: cheesyt
just read all your threads. took like 2 hours...

seems like you're stuck and she's just keeping you around just enough.

-C


Hmph... maybe that is true then and I am just blinded because I am in the middle of the situation.

I thought I was doing a decent job DB'ing but now I am not sure.

Sandi, any thoughts?

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Found out tonight that one of my best friends is having another baby. Of course I am happy for them, but it does make me sad at the same time. Hopefully have a chat with WW soon.

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Hey Pinn, maybe it's time to put a few plans in place rather than flying by the seat of your pants which is causing so much uncertainty for you both. How about arranging to see each other at least once a week and then you might want to increase it as you go along?

I have read your sich and I am truly impressed with all you DB'ng but it seems to me that your WW is feeling a little confused with the situation. You are rightly making her do all the chasing but she might be feeling a little despondent as from her point of view she might not be seeing any results. Maybe with a little structure in place it will help you both. You could both agree to taking it in turns to chose an activity each week? I know I couldn't carry on in this way with going out on dates and then no contact or days, each person waiting for the other to make the first move, it would drive me mad!!


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Hmmm that is a thought. Thanks for the input Coly. Yea clearly she is confused. We are going to talk soon and this could be something I could propose depending on how things go.

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heyyyy I've been here over a year now... woohoo... 14 months since BD tomorrow ;-)

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Happy anniversary? (Question mark?!?) congrats for sticking around so long!

Hope you had a great week, Pinn! What's new?


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Hey Pinn, how's it going? Did you manage to have that talk with your W, have things improved in your such?


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Thanks for checking in Feyth and Coly... life is good! Couldn't be better!

A tri friend of mine is probably going to sell his road bike and I am hoping to get it. So excited! I can use it in shorter tris I am sure. And I bought myself a tight 'tri' type bathing suit to train over the winter at my gyms pool. That suit will take some getting used to haha. Thanks for the motivation Feyth! I was going to do Ragnar Trails this weekend but had to pull out because of my achilles :-(... so instead I'll go to a new yoga class and meet some new people perhaps.

Things have been pretty quiet with WW the past 2 weeks or so. Just some texts here and there. I let her do much of the reaching out and don't think I'll ask her to do anything for a while (I do ask too much and I told her it's on her so...) I asked a week and a half ago if we could talk soon, she said of course but I haven't brought it up again yet. Actually, I was writing a pretty ominous text to her Wed or Thurs saying basically... look... we need to talk, it did not have a positive tone to it. We hadn't talked much that day and right as I was going to hit send she text me, so I held off on sending that. Earlier in the week, I kept getting the urge to text her about random things like a potential vacation to Hawaii in May I am planning to take with friends, selling the house and a party I am having at the house next weekend. Luckily DB'rs were in my head asking me why I wanted to send these messages? And the reason, for basically the first time in my situation, was to get a reaction. That was the only reason. I wanted a reaction, I wanted something, so I was able to get that out of my head before sending them. She doesn't need to be told about those things.

It's funny, when I first came here, posters would talk about limbo and I was like yea, I guess I am kind of in that category (not really though at that time). Now this is full blown, engulfed, five alarm BS limbo land. What a bunch of crap. Have I become the frog in the boiling water and slowly have gone to being like a gay boyfriend without even realizing it?? It is possible. Maybe she is just keeping me around as a solid plan B (I am a damn good plan B ;-). I wish I could really explain how many times this pattern has repeated itself, it is crazy. But when we have been together on those 'dates' recently, it has been really good, I'll admit it. She shows affection. But I don't get overly excited which is interesting. I mean I should have been on cloud 9 after she has initiated kissing a few times, but I really wasn't. I came home and feel right asleep... that is different than the past, I would get really excited. The get togethers are just not happening often enough to build on anything, we are not gaining any momentum I guess.

So when the time is right I'll push more for a talk over the next few weeks. It is for two things. I need to see how she really feels, I think we are at the point where that is a fair question to ask now. I'll push her a bit to get a feel. If she seems unsure or it is clear that she has no interest on pursing things, then I will bring up the second point, which is that it is time to move things forward. I have thought about that aspect a lot lately, I am content with it. If we get D, I will never be able to talk to her again, too risky and I am 100% content with that. We may have been only married 2 years, but this is a 20 year struggle. I want to be in control for once, I want to make the decision. I made one decision and it was when we first together, besides that it has been all her.

I am getting ancy. I think I am ready to date. I never really have, she has been pretty much it (minus a few month long or so flings here and there when we were 'off').

That turned out to be a longer ramble that went all over the place than I was hoping for :-).

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Had some texts from WW while I was writing the above. Just random stuff. Her, my niece and niece's friend are going to an amusement park today that we used to always go to. I knew they were going because she told me earlier in the week and I admit I did want an invite but it didn't come. So today she does ask me to go. I kind of took it as a non-invite invite because it is 2 hrs away and they were leaving basically when she asked me, so I declined.

But that invite was kind of important. I haven't seen my niece (who I love very much) in over a year. She is 12. Our nieces were very upset of the whole situation. We spent an awful lot of time with them. So asking me to go and spend the day with them is a positive.

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Hey Pinn, I agree that it is time to have that R talk with her. I know it's not strictly DB but it seems like you have both been dancing around the issue for a while and as you know limbo is not a good place to be in for either of you!

To me, IMHO and from a female perspective, it looks like she is waiting for you to make the first move and yes I think the invite it sounded positive!


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Thanks for the checking in Coly! Yea I am definitely off the strict DB'ing path now. Funny you mention that because I was thinking about that yesterday and meant to add it to my post. Maybe she is waiting for me to make the first move though I think that would be pretty unfair if that is the case. With the long weekend coming up, we should be able to talk soon. I understand why there shouldn't be an R talk at the beginning, it scares them away, they already told you that the relationship is over. They don't want to rehash it over and over. I figured that out before I even came here. But now things are different, it would not scare her off. I really do need to read DR again. Last time I read it, my situation and my mind was in a totally different spot.

I did get pics and videos from that amusement park. ugh... i love that place. I still think it was the right move not to go. Though I would have loved seeing my niece.

Off to the gym! Have a great Sunday DB'rs.

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Just went back and read my very first thread here... what a trip! It is so similar to so many first threads here. Pretty happy with the way things progressed in a year. Hope to keep it going the next year. There is no way of predicting anything in life that is for sure!

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Hey Pinn! Glad you sound like you are in a good place and get things are progressing well.

Did you have that R talk with W? If you did how did it go?


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No... not yet.... getting there though. Going hiking with her tomorrow. Maybe I'll bring it up after that depending on how things go. We'll see I guess...

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Oh fab, have a lovely hike! Actually all that nature and fresh air might help when having this type of conversation....


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Hi Pinn,
Hope you enjoyed the weekend! Did you get a 3 day-er?
How'd the hike go?


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Hey Feyth! Hope you are getting ready for your big race. I am so so jealous! I will be thinking of you that day!

I actually made it a 4 day weekend. I had a party at my house on Sunday so had a bit to do to get ready. Party was a success! Good times, just like the old days minus WW. I guess I really lucked out with one thing in my situation that I never realized while WW and I were together. We ended up becoming closer with my set of friends versus hers. So when she left, I still have all of them! So I had been exchanging general chit chat texts with WW and since Sunday something was just off with her, I could, I can always tell. Finally today I ask what the deal is. She says, "Yea I'm OK. I was really down on Sunday. Just feel like my life is a mess". Well... hey.. welcome to my world. I was partying and she was home wondering where her life is going. That was probably the exact opposite from a year ago.

The hike was good. Still not sure how to interact with her. I feel akward. I feel like I am thinking too much. I can't read her.

I have been thinking about what she really misses me... is it me or the life style. Life was good. I would like to figure that one out. Not sure where it will go or really what even to do. Just playing it as it goes.

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Had another get together with WW last night. She pushed for this one. We went for a walk in a state park that I had not been to before. That was real nice. Then we got dinner and some ice cream. I did not feel awkward this time, things were much more natural.

She seems to struggle with talking about things. She even mentioned she finds it hard to talk so I did not push then but told her that we would have to talk soon. But we did start talking a little. I accidentally made her cry at dinner when I asked her what the deal was with leaving the engagement ring on the closet floor (always something I had wondered about). She said that she did so much wrong back then and that she didn't even know what happened. She did apologize for things. Her b-day is this week and she started talking about her age and children etc. That was interesting as well. I just validated when possible.

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Maybe I am in the touch and go phase as I've seen on other threads... Interesting

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Originally Posted By: pinn
Maybe I am in the touch and go phase as I've seen on other threads... Interesting


The only thing I would counsel you with is to not have expectations of anything, and to validate as much as possible and allow her to open up.

Things sound positive though....


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I don't have any expectations trust me... This has been a long slow slog. I'm good no matter what happens

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Originally Posted By: pinn
I don't have any expectations trust me... This has been a long slow slog. I'm good no matter what happens


Perfect. I hope things continue trending upwards!!


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last year at this time I was debating whether or not to wish WW happy birthday and was in full blown NC. After getting slapped around by sandi a bit, I decided not to. This year I will take her out for dinner. I think I will try to get her to open up a bit more based on how things went last week. What a crazy crazy ride.... I would like to get off soon though. Carry on...

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Hey All,

I am in some trouble here. Some serious trouble. For a real quick recap, my WW went after a felon living with his mommy who lives a quarter mile from my house. Fan f'n tastic.

WW and I have been doing real well lately... fantastic even. I wake up this morning go to the gym and notice that my car was broken into. Of course, felon is the first one that comes to mind. I texted WW just mentioning that my car was broken into, not naming felon. I went to the cops to report it. A little later WW stops by and tells me how felon was texting her drunk last night and how he was going for a 'walk'. About 3 AM I wake up startled, heart pounding. Some noise woke me up but I didn't hear it again so I went back to sleep. I guess he was pounding on my door. She said he has been making a lot of threats lately.

I cannot believe this... I am going to end up on one of those shows were my WW's lover kills us both. I cannot believe she would choose some felon living with his mommy over someone with multiple degrees, physically fit and a really nice salary... unbelievable. Of course no she regrets all of this and she admitted to a lot today.

I have no clue what to do. She is going to the police to report him. I have not felt safe here since she got involved with felon.

What do ya'll think? What would you do? Not in relation to WW, but the situation in general. He is going to be even more mad after she goes to the police. ugh

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Oh no Pinn, that's awful! I don't really know what to think. Is he pi&&ed that she may be trying to reconcile with you? I didn't think it was that serious with him either. What was she thinking, grrrrr!!!!

Did it end really badly with him then?


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Pinn, Let's hope that WW reporting him calms it down. Did you explain the sitch to the police when reporting your car? Hope this guy gets out of the picture soon, sounds like your making progress.


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I just had to go back to the police. Obviously they can't do anything... I already knew that. Not sure why I had to go back down there. He is sending WW threatening texts again already... I think I'll sleep somewhere else tonight.

This is the second guy like this she has been involved with (we weren't technically together that time). I don't get it. She can get almost any guy she wants.

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At least now no matter what I will have an excuse to sell the house. Obviously I cannot stay here. WW loves this house but even if we get back together this is gone. That is on her.

WW's are crazy... absolute bat sh1t crazy. Man did she blow it. She even said today that she thinks she was going for someone the complete opposite of me. It is surreal. Everything else was bad enough, now I have to deal with this loser harassing me??

I might need some of Andrew P's surveillance and home security advice.

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Oh my gosh, Pinn! Im sorry to read this. Geez....... The last thing you need is that kind of drama. Stay safe.


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How could I go back and be with someone who left me for someone like this??? What if someone good actually came along. Man.... I have a lot to think about. Ugh

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WW asked how I was this morning... I said fine but that it really bothered me that she left me for someone like this... even though I knew since day 1.. it is really bothering me now... she responded with:

WW: I'm sorry and I understand what you are saying. I don't know what the f*ck I was thinking at that time. I guess I was in a bad place with my emotions. There are no excuses for everything that's happened and if you don't want to talk anymore we don't have to. Trust me, I hate myself every day for all of this and have for a long time. You're the best thing that has ever been in my life and I ruined that by not going about things the way I should have.

It didn't go down the way you think it did.... I wish I could take it all back. I'm sorry for everything Pinn.

Sandi any thoughts?

I can see how the LBS can suddenly become the WAS... I am on the verge...

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I would say to resist your urges to comfort her.

Focus on your safety. Let her keep coming to you.

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Thanks dark...interesting note... Even though we have been seeing each other since June you think that's the way to go? As a note, all I said in response was thanks for that

Crazy times

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"I'm sorry and I understand what you are saying. I don't know what the f*ck I was thinking at that time. I guess I was in a bad place with my emotions. There are no excuses for everything that's happened and if you don't want to talk anymore we don't have to. Trust me, I hate myself every day for all of this and have for a long time. You're the best thing that has ever been in my life and I ruined that by not going about things the way I should have.

It didn't go down the way you think it did.... I wish I could take it all back. I'm sorry for everything Pinn."

Yes. Youve been seeing each other, but in what capacity? Still only as friends from what Im reading and it's still running hot and cold. I think it's a path back together, for sure, but from what youve posted, I wouldnt say youre a couple, right?

What are you really going to say in response? "It's OK"? I say no way. I think saying "Thanks" is about all you can say in reply to that message.

I think just keep waiting and watching. Look out for number 1 right now.

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Thanks dark... Thanks is exactly what i said. I would say we were close to being a couple again but not quite there yet.

I was more wondering what people thought about the situation in general. It is hard to want to get back together at the moment

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Hi Pinn,
I agree with darkness.

I think she definitely wants you to comfort her. From my opinion (and watching how other ww women in real life handle these things), there's something slightly manipulative about the whole, "if you don't want to talk anymore, we don't have to." It kind of then places any future action on you and let's her off the hook.

Was this text or face to face or phone?


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Seems like if OM is a felon, his prints would be in the system, and he may have left a print in your car when he broke into it. I had my car broken into several years ago, and they did a full dusting for prints routine.


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Hmmm interesting thoughts feyth... This was just a text. Maybe she is being manipulative. I think I really need to figure out what I want and if there is any future from my point of view.

Jruss... The cops didn't seem very interested in doing anything further.

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Originally Posted By: pinn
I was more wondering what people thought about the situation in general. It is hard to want to get back together at the moment


pinn,

My thoughts are that, of course, your WW came back to you after the OM proved less than desirable, but what if he hadn't been abusive? I guess that's what's nagging me, particularly when you read what LiM has gone through with his wife.

I'm not saying that I don't think it's possible to reconcile, I think it is possible, but in my opinion your WW would have to be ready to do a lot of work to come back you. I'd hate for you to be Plan B yet again.

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I echo Doodlers point. Reconciliation isn't not possible, but why would you put yourself in the position to be plan B again? (since she's done this in the past)

Has she ever shared how she and felon got together and how and why it ended? Did she ever say they were for sure an item?

Also, Remember, , at a bare bare bare bare minimum- you deserve a darn phone call!


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Thanks Doodler and Feyth. I appreciate the responses so much!
I will have to read LiM’s situation. I don’t think that OM was physically abusive… just crazy. Obviously if everything had gone peachy and her life was perfect, then she would still be with him.

I guess the part I am missing right now is being plan B. Am I plan B? If I am plan B then what is plan A? OM? I don’t think so. I do think that there is a fairly decent chance of this happening again in the future if we get back together. Ugh.

Feyth, we have just started scratching the surface on all of that. She said yesterday that there was ‘history’ there. I’ll have to figure out exactly what happened there and how it ended. She said it had been over for months. It sounded like, from our talk yesterday, that they were for sure an item. This is the first time we talked about him. This convo was via test but I started it that way. We talked face to face a bit yesterday.

It is interesting the responses here. I think I have blinders on. I see remorse coming from her and her admitting that she made the wrong choices. Everyone seems to be very skeptical. So let me ask this… if you were in my shoes, what would it take for you to be convinced otherwise?

I feel like we are making baby steps of progress. We will have more discussions in the future. This will be very tough to get past though.

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Hi pinn,
I think Plan A, in your case (and mine for sure) is the possibility for a better, happier, more fulfilling future life out there, including a fantasy lover(s) who is perfect in every way.

Plan B is to stay in the same old, same old.

The remorse will come out in bits and pieces, if it is there, buried in discussions. It'll start adding up, so I guess journal them if you hear them to decide if they are real or just manipulation?


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Originally Posted By: pinn
I do think that there is a fairly decent chance of this happening again in the future if we get back together.


I think she is remorseful now. But she has been remorseful in the past, I am sure as you have said this has happened multiple times.

In my opinion, it sounds like getting her to "attach" isnt and hasnt been so difficult for you, but "keeping" her attached IS. What will you do differently during this time in order to make that "deeper" connection?

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Originally Posted By: darknes


In my opinion, it sounds like getting her to "attach" isnt and hasnt been so difficult for you, but "keeping" her attached IS. What will you do differently during this time in order to make that "deeper" connection?


Yea exactly. I have thought about this for months.

First off, I have identified her love language and will work to show her. I think I have been doing that already. I also asked her to read the love language book which she has. I told her how, when I look back, I didn’t really feel loved by here either. We just show love in two completely different ways. Second, and this is a major issue for me, I need to completely let go and go all in 100%. I have been guarded since she first broke my heart many, many years ago. I think that hurts us since I am not letting go completely. This means complete transparency. Third, we need consoling to improve our communication and sex life, no doubt. It’ll take a ton of work and patience. Finally, I am not tolerating any of the BS signs of disrespect if we get back together. No more eye rolls or anything else.


Thanks for the comments Altair. I guess that plan A sounds about right.

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Hi pinn,
I'm on the same track of really thinking about H's and my respective love languages and how we *thought* we were showing love to each other-- which couldn't have been further from the truth.

In some interactions with H, I tried some very unnatural to me 'his love language' actions and got huge responses. How about you?


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Hi Altair... I'll have to stop by your thread. For me, we were way past the point of me trying to reach her based on her LL. I try a bit when I see her, but because of our path, I think I would be in the same spot without even knowing about LLs. To me, speaking my wife's LL is something for the long term. I can tell when she hits mine though.

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Hi Pinn,
I don't really talk about it (yet) in my thread. It's just something I've been noticing over the past few months (after I was instructed to buy LL). Just tiny interactions and I get these gushing-type responses.
I guess his love tank was really bone dry.


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Hey Pinn, I did a quick catch up of what's happened recently with you.

Ok. So W and OM are over and she started poking her head out a bit? It's excitingly terrifying isn't it? I'm not sure what your W LL are, they way you talk about them being long term makes me think they are similar to my W which is quality time and acts of service. So it makes it tough to show her those when we are living apart.

I have a friend who is a bit over a year past his bday with his W and so far he has called every step of way with W. From the venom to the break up with OM once he found out they are moving in together to when she started popping her head up. His advice has been solid so far. The point is that it seems like Exs follow a script they haven't read. They just follow it.

So it's important to listen to people that have been down the path. Keep up your good work.


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Thanks Tyler... I have actually been down this path myself so I know the script pretty well myself. She started popping her head in Dec/Jan actually I resisted those pretty well. We have been seeing each other since mid June and just recently things have gone up to another level. It will probably be time for a real important talk soon.

You are right on her LL's. Her primary is definitely quality time (particularly quality conversation) and I think her secondary is act's of service. I think if you were to ask her she would say physical touch, but I just don't that is it. The other two are definitely not her. So yea, it is hard to work on those when you don't live together. At this point, those do not matter so much, they will become important later I think. Right now, we are on the verge of replaying a start of a relationship again, for about the 5th time in 20 years. The question I have to figure out is... is this what I want? Do I want to put in this effort?

Also, since this is the second physco she has been involved who both hate me and would like to see me 6 feet under, maybe this isn't worth it. She talks the talk now but in 2-3 years will we be right back here again? I don't know.. the chances of that are not zero though, that I do know. I keep picturing here trotting around with her new hair and skimpy clothes 15 months ago, she really was whacked. I think this weekend I am going to ask her what the deal was, we have to start getting into some stuff. She is finally admitting that other stuff was going on besides just issues with our marriage.

That's is a lot of rambles and a stream of random thoughts. Now let me go make sure my house is locked down for the night so I can try and sleep without felon coming to bother me.

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WW came and surprised me at my 10k race this morning with the pup. That was nice and surprising to see as I rounded a corner. Things are looking positive. Is this the beginning stages of piecing? I think it is and I think that my time line is pretty good meaning that things are happening at the right speed. I need to figure out what I really want now. I already have similar thoughts as Lim and Blu and it scares me to see how hard piecing could be.

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You are definitely not in Piecing. Piecing is when the WAS actively tells you they want to get back together and starts actions on their own to make things right. Like if she signed you both up for MC.


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Thanks for that Bond. I appreciate it. Maybe I am not there quite yet... but I feel like it is on the verge. I think she has taken some action, especially lately. But your point is well taken. I won't worry about it and just keep on keeping on.

Have you read through my threads lately? I am wondering what your recommendations would be.

Thanks again for checking in.

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She's still with the OM?


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No, that has been over for a while though we have to sit down and discuss it. I was thinking about maybe doing that this weekend, I don't know. Read the last few pages for a few interesting developments there.

I don't get many responses especially from vets, so when you see my name pop up please do check in. My posts are usually pretty short and I appreciate your blunt style (it won't bother me). I always read what you have to say. This stage of my situation is much harder to deal with than the beginning.

Thanks again.

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Hey Pinn, great to hear you sounding so positive! It's been a long time coming for you. You have been so patient! I hope she appreciates your commitment to your M and to your W!


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So besides being nicer, what has she been doing for you?


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well... I think she has been doing some stuff.. particularly lately. Maybe it is small, but I feel like it is in the right direction. Some of this stuff may seem silly but here goes.

- With the drama with the felon, she went right to the police. I didn't say a word about going there.
- She offered to get a restraining order on felon not because she actually feels unsafe but because her registered address is still our house so it would have been a level of protection for me.
- she gave a remorseful apology (highlighted a few pages back)
- she surprised me at my race (she lives 30 min away)
- she has been making trips up here more now instead of meeting somewhere, which is a lot easier for me and I have no interest in going to her apartment. She sometimes brings little gifts as well.

I am not saying everything is all peaches but I feel like we are on the verge of something. But I need to really think about what I want. We really need to have an R talk soon, it is time.

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Hey Pinn,
I like to run too! Got some 10 and 20's coming up. Your sitch sounds hopeful and I really wish you well. You have been really strong so far. You've had plenty of good advice, trust your instincts as you know what to do. Good luck.


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Nice scrant! I hurt myself in a half at the end of the july and am just getting back now. I wanted to run a full marathon in october but am now trying to train quickly for a half since I got hurt. I'll do the full next year I guess.

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Happy Sunday, Pinn! That was nice of ww to show up at your race. I bet it feels nice to feel supported!

I hope there haven't been any other issues with felon. I'm glad you are able to continue on your path. Good luck if/ when you have that talk! I'm rooting for you.


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Thanks Feyth! It always makes me happy when you stop by my thread.

Went out again with WW today. She asked, so I agreed. We went apple picking and then got dinner. It went well. We got together every day this weekend.

After dinner, we were sitting at the table chatting and I began casually asking some questions about the felon. I know WW and I know I don't have to say much to get her to start blabbing away. I wanted to know some details about them, mainly what was their deal now. But I also wanted to know if there was anything else I should be concerned about. Turns out he had been threatening me to her for weeks now. Hello! Next time why don't you let me know!

Anyway, I asked some probing relationship talk type questions. It was a delicate dance. I did lots of validating though where I did not completely disagree. I said I think you need to figure out what you really want, and she said I know what I want. She began tearing up, so we decided to call it a night.

I walked her to her car and we continued to talk. She said, without me bringing it up, that we should go to MC together to figure out what to do next because she has no idea. She also said that she might want to get some IC for herself. There were lots of tears from her. Saying things like she didn't know who she was back then, she has always been happiest with me etc. I asked her if me pressuring her to have children was at all an issue.. and she said no, she wanted that to. That was something I had wondered about.

She is concerned about two things in our future, the same as me. She wants me to able to trust her again and not worry about this happening every few years. Yea, well me too. She wants this to be it (yea heard that before). The second thing she worries about is our physical chemistry. Which is an issue, I feel that one is mainly my fault. I am very attracted to her but something gets in my head and just makes things akward. I validated both of these concerns which was easy because they are my concerns too. I said I understand those issues but it was something that would take work but that we could overcome.

So that is pretty much where I am now. I think we will continue to see each other. I need to try and find a good MC but as long as her and I are on the same page it makes MC worth while I think.

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talked to my brother a bit last night. Let him know WW and I had been seeing each for a while now. He was not happy about it. His points and concerns were all valid. I am tired of repairing relationships every time this happens as well. Everyone on my side is tired of it. Not really sure how I would handle that but it is tough to have that added stress along with everything else that is going on. ugh

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During this time, while you're talking, has there been any physical touch?


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Hi Bond, thanks again for stopping by. I hope this does not come off too corny. There has been some, she gives me tight, long hugs everytime we meet. I like those, always have. When we walked around the city should would grabbed my hand or grab my arm. She has given me a few kisses (not passionate but I don't think I am ready for that). She initiates most of it, I have just started testing those waters slightly. Most of the time we have been out in public. Actually this weekend was the first time she came to the house and that was only for an hour or two. So I guess there has been physical touch but nothing overally intimate.

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Is there something holding you back? I know you don't want to open yourself up again out of fear. I totally understand that, but now maybe you can be a little flirty to her and give her some light touches. That will increase her trust in you. And you will be able to slowly trust her as well.


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Yea it is fear that is holding me back of course. I felt better this weekend but before then I was not really sure what she wanted so it was hard even though she was making moves. I think going forward I can open up more. Actually, if the situation was right and saw an opportunity to really go for something, that would be a god 180 for me.

It's funny... you do all this work to get to this point, for months and months this all you want then it comes... and I am like... errrr.... I don't know.

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Please start a new thread. Thanks!


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The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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