HaWho, I continue to be amazed at your patience… and grace… and understanding... And, of course at your sense of humor through all of this. A missing computer sounds a bit troublesome. Do you think the computer just got fed up with your H or had a MLC on its own and just walked away, LOL. Aside from the joke, I totally get your concern. I hope it turns out somewhere in the house. I mean the stinky dorm room.
I agree with others about some boundaries and occasional truth darts. I hope you had a decent weekend and is ready for the week ahead.
M:50 H:52 S28 (my S from previous marriage) M:17 + 3 BD: 06/12 S: 06/12 - H works in another state
Bright - maybe the computer is a WAS. He is practically married to it! LOL!
Ciluzen - let's wager in laptops. They appear to be a dime a dozen around here.
Still no laptop, Mleigh. Wonder if he remembers he lost it?!?
Ugh. So, more memory problems over here. S10 had a game at different location but one we've been to before. The last time we were there was a year ago, when h was in Transvania-like fog. So I hear him say he's googling where this "new place" is. In the car, I ask if we're going to x place? He says yes and I say we've been there before, several times and I tell him where it is. (I used to sit quiet during his memory glitches but I now always point out discrepancies.) I think it's a form of truth darting and often, he now wonders why he can't remember it. (Plus, I definitely want to differentiate that I am fine and it's him that is loopy.). We get there and he says he's never been here before. I say he has, multiple times. He wonders aloud why he doesn't remember.
There was some future talk this weekend. On Sunday he texted me asking if he and the boys could take me out to lunch for my birthday. I say sure. This is a change from last year where he includes himself. (Mother's Day 2015 was a particular horror show when he announced in front of everyone that none of the gifts were from him. S10 told him that was not a nice thing to say! LOL!)
We went to a nice restaurant on the water. It was kind of uncomfortable because the service was awful and the waiter kept calling my h "brother." Very odd for an upscale restaurant. And the way he said it was like they were in some sort of gang together?? So I started to call him brother, too. And he laughed. It's good to know he can still smile. Anyway, at the end of what was a really bad experience, (like 20 minutes for everything to arrive), h apologized and said "we'll do better next year." I said it was all fine. But it was weird. I told him the restaurant was having an identity crisis. It used to be this low end casual beach place and I am assuming they kept the same waitstaff despite the fact that the new place is a fancy place.
Maybe to him a year seems like a few days from now, but I cringed. Granted, this year is better than last in that at least I am not sitting there listening to him tell me that he wants to sleep with other women and go away for a FEW YEARS. This year, if he tried that again, I was ready to tell him to discuss it with his 'brother,' the waiter.
As for me, I find myself in this odd place. It's new. Where prior to this, it hurt equally to be in h's presence as without h, now? It's more uncomfortable to be with him. I prefer being by myself. It's all the weirdness/pain of the letter, the paranoia, the silence, the zoning he does. Sometimes I look over at him and he's zoning out into thin air. I want to tape those swirling black and white circles over his eyes to complete the look.
But he is also spending a lot more time with the boys and consistently so. He never invites or includes me anymore. Where before this sort of thing stung, now? I grab my sneakers and off I go.
Perhaps the most exciting 'new' thing? Yesterday he turned the radio on in his car!!! This is the first time in 3 or 4 years I was not subjected to his depressing MLC greatest hits. I was going to make a crack that I was shocked his radio still worked after such gross neglect but I was just so very thankful not to hear one of the same 10 songs again. I didn't want to rock the boat. I should have said it was nice but then the implication is that usually it's not? And that seemed rude to say.
As for me? I am still working through a lot of my emotions on that letter. I am sure you are all groaning but it's a big mountain for me to get over. I've been re-reading the detachment thread and it's becoming my mantra. It's helping me so much but I still have tons of wounds from that grenade he threw at me.
Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13 BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room" 8/15: H back to MBR 10/15: H back in dorm room 1/18: H files, now divorced
You know, though, that he probably doesn't even remember anything he wrote in that letter? Look at it as the ramblings of a psychotic person.
Of course, if he ever wakes out of his trance, he will have a lot of work to do to convince you that he doesn't believe any of those things. You deserve that reassurance. But it IS truly amazing how little they can remember of things they said and did while in crisis.
Hi HaWho, I'm not groaning about the letter Sweetheart There are certain things during this experience that really get to us and that letter did to you. Either you will get an opportunity to work through that with your H or you won't. We either heal alone or together, but the main thing is to heal.
In my sitch, I learned that trying to engage with XH on 'why' resulted in him saying some more stuff that rankled with me as he just built himself up as a guy who'd made mistakes but knew what he wanted now - a new family. Ugh - didn't help me one bit!!
Funny about your H not remembering visits to that place. I can't imagine feeling that way. I'm sure I remember everywhere I have been - guess I'm not in MLC then!! XH and me used to go to a regular place with SS and I think he would have sailed past the junction for it 50% of the time, had I not reminded him. There were times when I didn't really pay attention and we did sail past it....weird! I occasionally sail past stuff, but once every few years, you know?
Anyway 'sister' (just thought I would try that one out....even though I don't work in a fancy restaurant...) sounds like you are doing well with everything....keep on keeping on!
Xx
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
HaWho, please forgive me because I don't recall exactly what was in the letter, but I do understand completely how some things can just eat at you. For you it's the letter and the things that were said. For me, it's the lying about stupid stuff and hiding things that I wouldn't give a wit about.
I think Sotto is right. We and our spouses may or may not work through that stuff together, but we will find peace with it eventually.
Sotto is also right about trying to engage. My H was willing to answer any question I had for him last week and he did exactly as Sotto's H did. Best to zip the lips.
Keep moving forward and take care of you and those boys.
Glad the music has lightened up!
2T
Me: 59 and holding H: :53 Me: 1 S, 1 D, both grown M: 19 T: 23 BD: 9-23-2013
Sotto - thank you! I feel myself actively working on healing from the letter.
KML - your advice is logical and probably very healthy. Honestly, I don't see myself heading the way of 'someday if he wakes up, I'll feel better when he reassures me.' More on that to follow. BTW - I think he remembers that letter to some extent. Remember, a few months later, out of the blue he asked for it back. Not out of contrition but out of paranoia: he said he didn't know what I would do with it.
2T - The letter was awful. He told me I was showing signs of aging (uh, yeah, DUH, so was HE) and he recommended certain improvements I could make via surgery. He also asked that I stop being intelligent and just be sexy, 24/7. (I was never the sexy type, too much Catholic schooling for me to throw on the mini skirt and bend over to get attention!) At the time he wrote it, he was knee deep with two shallow MLC friends and I think he thought that was the silver bullet to happiness? These two guys were 50, never married, Viagra popping, skirt chasing guys. Zero substance to them. He had already ditched his decent guy friends.
Job said it best: I never once was the things he now said he wanted. It was all the opposite.
The tone of the letter was arrogant and completely entitled. For example, he reassured me that none of the physical changes were required for his friendship! Can you imagine saying that someone?
Now, maybe you're secretly thinking, 'hmm, maybe HaWho is morbidly obese? Maybe she is so large she needs to be hoisted out of her house by crane?' Well, I am not. I am 5' 8" 125 lbs. and men do not cross streets to avoid me.
Two seconds before he gave me the letter I was okay with myself and how I looked. Afterwards, despite setting a firm boundary on him (telling him my body was NOT the issue and we would never again discuss MY body), I started to see my body as he saw it. I still hear a lot of what he wrote. I have been working very hard at trying not to hear those things and to see my body as I did before the letter. And I certainly don't want to do *anything* to attract this kind of person.
KML - the way I am heading is that his opinion means nothing to me. The reason he wrote it is fast becoming obsolete. It's like if someone gets drunk and says all sorts of homophobic, racist & misogynistic things. You see something come out that is weird and not okay. You can't really see that person or their opinion in the same way. Something changes permanently. Maybe they were temporarily crazy. But something shifts nonetheless.
I am not saying this is healthy if there is ever a future with us, but his opinion of my body is getting to be of absolutely no consequence to me. This is how I am healing, healthy or not. He could tell me I am hideous and it won't matter. He can tell me I'm gorgeous and it won't matter. Actually, I never want to hear what he thinks of my body again. Perhaps even more problematic? I don't want to be attractive to him. I don't even want his eyes on me. I know. B.I.G. problem if he ever wakes up and I am still 'here.' This is probably where KML's advice would come into play? But I am not sure I will ever care again.
So, h? Well, he has been quiet. He is speding lots of time with the boys. I am not sure how much of this is on a friend level vs. a father/son level? It is time with them. The quantity is improving, just not sure on the quality?
He is eating so much lately. He ate a whole pizza yesterday! And every 2nd or 3rd day there is a new gallon of ice cream in the freezer. This was his diet in his 20's. Pizza and ice cream. That sweet tooth they have in depression is on full force!
He pretty much ignores me. It's 'hi' and 'bye' and that's about it. For pretty much every conversation he categorically addresses the kids' names at the start as if to say: you are not included in this conversation HaWho.
The other day the boys asked him to check out this show they like where people race through obstacle courses. We were all in the same room. H watched and his takeaway? He said: 'I am so old.' No one said anything. He said louder: 'I am SO old.' No one said anything.
I wanted to say: 'well, maybe you should finish growing up then?'
Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13 BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room" 8/15: H back to MBR 10/15: H back in dorm room 1/18: H files, now divorced
HaWho, thank you for reminding me about the letter. I remember it now.
As I read your post I couldn't help but think how much our sitch's are alike as far as H's being able to plant seeds that cause us to rethink ourselves and to doubt ourselves. Your H telling you about the discrepancies with you body is the same as my H telling me that I live a "dull" life.
It makes us question if there is something wrong with us. It makes us rethink our comfort in being who we are.
I've been thinking all day about my post and the replies I received (thank you so much for posting your thoughts).
My thinking is that I could (and you could) remake ourselves into what they say is their ideal partner and they'd just find something else that needed to be "fixed." The deck is stacked against us. We can't win. Until they come to their senses, there will always be something lacking in their eyes. It's the only way they can justify treating us like chit.
There's nothing wrong with your body and there's nothing wrong with the way I choose to live my life. All of that was just fine for many, many years. Now all of sudden it's not?
Forget that letter (and I'm forgetting the garbage about my lifestyle). It's MLC talk designed to justify their behavior to themselves. Even if we pretzeled ourselves into being the "vision" they say they want, they'd just find some other flaw we needed to address.
Just be who you are, physically, mentally, emotionally ... be you!
The problem is not us ... it's them!
Be kind to yourself. Forget that MLC crap. You know he's way off base (as is my H). Don't let it get to you.
I know ... easier said than done. I fall for my H's criticism all the time and end up wondering what's wrong with me. But we can't let them pull us down. We know our own value. Hopefully, someday they will once again see it. In the meantime, we shouldn't let them get in our heads and make us doubt who we are.
I think you are an awesome woman (and I think I am, too.) How many women (or men) would weather this storm and not just walk away? We're incredibly strong and wise people and we're learning more and more about ourselves everyday. But we're learning it from a place of logic and reality and not some fantasy world. We're pretty special people in my book.
Much love. 2T
Me: 59 and holding H: :53 Me: 1 S, 1 D, both grown M: 19 T: 23 BD: 9-23-2013
2T - thanks for that post. It's interesting what you said about transforming ourselves into their vision only to have the vision shift. That's exactly how I felt in the early days of MLC. I heard all sorts of complaints. Suddenly, I didn't cook what he wanted. Mmm, okay, so I altered that. Then that shifted again. Then it was x, y and z stupid thing. It was all a moving target. It took me FOREVER to realize it was a giant game of whack-a-mole.
So, here are a few interesting MLC updates. This weekend h took kids to a tournament and gave me the weekend off. I thanked him, but wonder if he wasn't icing me out by playing Mr. Nice Guy? Anyway, I had a great weekend. I played lots of tennis, saw a friend for lunch and dropped 50 IQ points shamelessly watching bad TV!
As for the kids and h? S12 was upset because they only went to the beach for 1/2 hour? Then h said he wasn't feeling well and they went back to the hotel room. (I remember in my own depression saying and believing I didn't feel well when it was really fatigue. I was wonder if that's what this is?) S12 said h was kind of baving a hard time just relaxing. And then from 2-4 am h was playing music despite the fact that the kids were right there in the same room trying to sleep?!? S12 asked him to turn it off so they *could* sleep. H got cranky and said no! There is that inability to quiet the mind at night.
Today, as I was cooking dinner h asked if he can have a certain wall hanging from the master bedroom. I told him of course he could. I politely told him it is his and he can have anything in there that is his. He told me that was the only item he wanted.
Prior to this when he's wanted things out of the room he's just taken it. He just moved his stuff out without a word, then, on another occasion he packed that suitcase and hauled out more stuff.
The picture is a sentimental one to him. It always has been. It reminds him of his grandmother. Perhaps he thinks he just needs to spruce us the dorm room to feel better? Maybe it is a temperature check to see my reaction? Maybe both?
Who knows? I have no idea. I took the picture down and left it outside his dorm room. A year ago this would have stung. It would have been evidence of he distance between us growing. Now? It's a painting he wants.
Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13 BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room" 8/15: H back to MBR 10/15: H back in dorm room 1/18: H files, now divorced
If he was close to his grandmother, then I can understand him wanting the picture.
As for feeling unwell, depression does make you feel that way. However, he sure perked up later, didn't he? He just can't quiet his mind long enough to sleep properly and has to be doing something to stay busy. The music is his way to keep the demons at bay.
BTW, I'm glad you had the weekend off and could enjoy yourself. Hopefully things will remain a bit calmer in the days ahead.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I am so astounded by how utterly ridiculous the MLCer can be.
Yesterday, h texts me asking why I have spent x dollars in the last month. His tone is hostile. I text back and detail exactly what I spent the money on: clothes, shoes and new backpacks for the kids (theirs both broke this year).
And I decide it is just time to launch truth darts at him. I have heard all your advice + he has zero self awareness. Actually, his self awareness is in the negative numbers.
First, a vent. Seriously, he is going to start this with ME? He has bought himself a second car!! He has lost a laptop!
So I have already called him out on his car band-aid so I will pick something else. And I don't want to mention the laptop because he is cray cray and thinks I stole it. But, I have SO many things with which to hit him. There is an armory of truth darts from which to choose. I take an hour or so and think about what to say. In the end, I hit him quick, but hard and real deep.
I tell him that while he is upset I am spending on the kids he is ordering himself the finest organic foods, spices and vitamins. (All very expensive but he's worth it, it seems! But I don't say this part). Then I do say, you were willing to pay for renting a beach house so you could sleep with other women and you were willing to pay loads of money for me to see a plastic surgeon. But essentials for your kids are a problem?!?
He writes back that he is "not going to discuss that cr@p." Interesting as 'that cr@p' is verbatim what he said! But I say nothing back. He needs help seeing how incredibly selfish and superficial he has become. He needs to be left alone in the silence and darkness with all 'that cr@p.'
Then he texts back saying that what I do with my life is my business, he is merely here for guidance. Umm, what?!? LOL! And what kind of guidance am I to receive from him?!? Seriously? He is a grown man hiding, lost and paranoid, in his re-created childhood bedroom? And his 'guidance' regarding financials have been ruinous (2nd cars, beach shag pads and plastic surgery bills!) I do not respond.
He texts me telling me I have ruined his adult life and he has always provided very well for me. He tells me I should not have hostility towards him. I say nothing.
Then, the most bizarre thing? He sends me a text saying almost exactly what I told *him* after he bought his 2nd (2nd) MLC car (a few months ago): that we should be saving for the future and not spending frivolously! And I do not think he is being a wise guy. I think he is being genuine and does not realize I already told him all this! I don't answer. I bought the kids clothes and packbacks and shoes. I did not go buy myself a second car, lose a computer, or want to rent a beach house so I could play frat boy!
The kids and I come home and his body language is meek, not angry. Interesting. I can tell I 'won' because if he had even a pinky toe to stand on he's be angry and still spewing.
He is hungry and I tell him there is chicken in the fridge. He clucks like a hen (old h humor). The kids want cocoa, he is in the room so I offer him some. One of the big things I am working on is not being cold when angry. And it feels good to fix this about myself.
Then he ducks into the dorm room. At 8PM it is dark and silent in there. 1/2 hour or so later he comes out to walk the dog. His body language is like a little boy. He takes the dog's collar and jostles it jokingly as if teasing the dog with 'walk time.' He makes sure I see it. He returns and ducks back into that MLC incubator. The temperature is set at a constant and cozy 'crazy.'
I head upstairs and I hear him go out and talk to S12 a bit. I know he is avoiding me. I don't blame him. My truth darts left him looking like a porcupine.
Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13 BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room" 8/15: H back to MBR 10/15: H back in dorm room 1/18: H files, now divorced
There are certain things during this experience that really get to us and that letter did to you. Either you will get an opportunity to work through that with your H or you won't. We either heal alone or together, but the main thing is to heal. 